00:02:26 <advil> finally, travis is doing the same thing as my (still fairly limited) tests locally
00:03:42 <ebering> !!!
00:03:44 <ebering> hurrah
00:04:12 <alexjurkiewicz> yew
00:04:37 <ebering> with release coming soon: we need a title
00:05:05 <ebering> "The Greatest Show in Zot"
00:05:18 <ebering> might be too silly
00:05:31 <advil> I'm not sure "too silly" is usually a concern
00:05:36 <ebering> :)
00:05:40 <gammafunk> we've tried to have a reference to the big new features
00:05:46 <gammafunk> traps, gauntlet
00:06:04 <gammafunk> advil may have snuck in a 3rd release highlight
00:06:18 <gammafunk> although you could collect the unrand changes into one if you wanted too
00:06:48 <gammafunk> that's another (small) thing to decide: the changelog release highlights
00:06:50 <gammafunk> obviously gauntlet and traps should go on there
00:07:15 <CanOfWorms> klowns for sure
00:07:22 <gammafunk> I don't think so
00:07:28 <gammafunk> just a change of one monster
00:07:58 <CanOfWorms> oh, nem rework
00:08:01 <gammafunk> yes
00:08:22 <CanOfWorms> wait
00:08:31 <gammafunk> might consider that borderline, but we've included big god reworks in the past and that seems appropriate enough
00:08:33 <CanOfWorms> what if we called the release "the last deck of nemelex xobeh"
00:08:46 <gammafunk> it's hard to make one title that references several
00:08:51 <gammafunk> but we could at least try to reference two
00:09:26 <gammafunk> but there are no rules about release names, especially seeing as how we just forget to make them until the last minute half the time
00:09:37 <gammafunk> and no one ever remembers them
00:14:21 <ebering> I remember Squaring the Circle
00:16:15 <gammafunk> I had to remind myself about "Ghost in the Cell"
00:24:42 <gammafunk> https://crawl.develz.org/tournament/0.23/overview.html
00:24:49 <gammafunk> basic test of CDO is working ok so far
00:25:19 <gammafunk> but there's a bit more things to clean up and check before we're ready to commit to that and announce
00:29:32 <|amethyst> Minotaur Needs Decks Badly
00:30:00 <|amethyst> something something Decked Out
00:32:15 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.24-a0-7-g1bb0902 (34)
00:32:33 <|amethyst> Nemelex Needs Traps Badly  would hit three things
00:34:55 <gammafunk> dang
00:35:14 <gammafunk> that's pretty epic
00:37:38 <gammafunk> My only request is that we reference at least one release highlight
00:38:07 <gammafunk> I wonder if people would get that "needs FOO badly" is a reference to the Gauntlet message
00:38:19 <gammafunk> that's probably a function of age
00:38:43 <|amethyst> Me?  Obscurantist?
00:38:47 <|amethyst> perish the thought!
00:40:29 <|amethyst> So for the class I teach we have an electronics kit that students get for the semester, and a couple of tablets with ID card scanners that we use to keep track of who has a kit, to make sure they're returned at the end of the semester
00:40:49 <|amethyst> The passcode to unlock the tablets is 123456
00:41:32 <|amethyst> I was explaining this to my TAs, and told them "I've got the same combination on my luggage"
00:41:36 <|amethyst> no one got it
00:41:47 <|amethyst> I felt old
00:48:21 <alexjurkiewicz> if it makes you feel worse, I just had to look up both of those references
00:48:26 <|amethyst> heh
01:28:09 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.24-a0-7-g1bb0902 (34)
01:58:51 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.24-a0-7-g1bb0902
02:59:51 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.24-a0-7-g1bb0902
08:51:44 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
12:27:04 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.24-a0-7-g1bb0902 (34)
13:17:32 <Eksell> Stable (0.23) branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.23-b1-0-ga39c873
13:35:03 <Eksell> Webtiles server restarted.
13:35:15 <Eksell> cotteux (L20 GrBe)  (Vaults:4)
13:40:59 <Medar> 0.23 should be up and running on CXC now
13:50:00 <gammafunk> Medar: great, thanks
15:49:10 <NP7> when trying to access CWZ I get: "This site can’t provide a secure connection webzook.net uses an unsupported protocol. ERR_SSL_VERSION_OR_CIPHER_MISMATCH"
15:51:26 <NP7> and after a short while it fixes itself
15:51:26 <NP7> this happened yesterday as well
16:45:09 <alexjurkiewicz> NP7: what OS/browser are you using?
16:45:23 <alexjurkiewicz> ??cwz
16:45:23 <Sequell> cwz[1/7]: Crawl server (webtiles-only) located in Korea; the server admin goes by hong on irc. http://webzook.net:8080/
16:46:13 <alexjurkiewicz> hm. the site has no https, it seems. Maybe hong is testing https?
16:47:07 <amalloy> yeah, i think the bigger question is, what url are you using to get to cwz that makes your browser think it should use ssl when cwz disagrees
16:49:49 <alexjurkiewicz> the main website is accessible over https but it seems pretty normal (TLS1.0 supported)
16:49:49 <alexjurkiewicz> Once you have a means to stop your hair from stretching, it's quite difficult. There is no way to reduce headaches because of the high base physical strength, and you have to fight with the feeling of being surrounded by your soul. If you are not the chief of the firepower, you will also come out to the magician, but the resistance is even greater than the state, so if you allow the close-up, you will
16:49:49 <alexjurkiewicz> quickly go to the hook. Since HD is 13, do not try to use the wand of transformation. There is a case of turning into a storm (HD 14) or a ghost moth (HD 13). Or even emperor scorpions ... Sometimes the troll's fingernails (including any nail variants of two or more different tribes, even if they have more than one tier) or blades are also classified as fleas without fingers.
16:50:49 <alexjurkiewicz> there are so many cool splash screens cwz has
16:51:31 <alexjurkiewicz> these ones are CC0, they could be included https://webzook.net/bbs/board.php?bo_table=webzook_pic&wr_id=6
16:51:53 <amalloy> that's clearly hydra advice, but it's still hard to make sense of some of it
16:52:08 <amalloy> i assume it makes a lot more sense in the original korean
16:54:36 <alexjurkiewicz> advil: fyi the weekly challenge on cpo is complete. You get one attempt and the winner is tracked
16:55:07 <alexjurkiewicz> s/winner/top scorer/
16:55:07 <advil> cool
16:55:07 <floraline> neat
16:55:16 <advil> I found some more seed instability in depths, still tracking it down
16:55:19 <floraline> why limit it to just one attempt?
16:55:51 <advil> there might be reasons to go either way but it seems to be how these things are often run, e.g. spelunky dailies, brogue weekend challenges
16:56:06 <advil> brogue daily challenges (these are just an informal forum thing) have no reules though
16:58:05 <amalloy> new hypothetically optimal play: create many accounts to practice the weekly challenge
16:59:04 <floraline> right that's what i was thinking. limiting me to one attempt doesn't stop me from practicing it
17:00:28 <alexjurkiewicz> yeah. I am not sure about the right approach. Letting people replay it would emphasize the "same dungeon" part
17:00:42 <amalloy> it's a tradeoff. by making it harder to "cheat" you make it more prestigious and exciting, but you can't really stop people from cheating if they want to
17:00:45 <alexjurkiewicz> like, you'd see with your own eyes that the dungeon is static
17:01:09 <alexjurkiewicz> I'm not worried about cheating. People can if they want to
17:02:14 <alexjurkiewicz> I felt the bad part about allowing replays was that people would just focus on weekly challenge to the exclusion of "normal" crawl. But perhaps that isn't really a problem. I mean, challenge isn't tracked
17:02:33 <alexjurkiewicz> now that seeded is in trunk that's probably easy to change
17:03:55 <alexjurkiewicz> Is there some way to let people play the mode without writing entries to milestones/logfiles/scores? I guess I could set up a fake directory for them. Then you can allow multiple runs but only the first is scored
17:05:46 <NP7> ah ok yea I think I needed to use https
17:05:46 <NP7> I'll remember that in future thanks
17:11:05 <amalloy> NP7: the opposite, i think
17:11:05 <amalloy> cwz doesn't support https, from the look of it
17:15:22 <floraline> why not write to meta files?
17:15:40 <floraline> replaying sounds fine to me, you can challenge not only other players but yourself to try and get a better score
17:16:46 <floraline> i think either way would be nice, but i'm more inclined to say yes to replays since it would be so easy to cheat
17:23:54 <floraline> and if some players want to play the challenge instead of standard games, i don't think we should stop them. more players having fun makes for a healthy community
17:26:40 <alexjurkiewicz> ok, i'm convinced
17:29:35 <floraline> i was looking into how we could reload webtiles config on trunk. i think it's possible but prone to error
17:40:37 <ebering> the brogue community has weekly seeded challenges
17:40:56 <ebering> and while there are probably some cheats, it seems to be pretty well go along to get along
17:42:00 <floraline> they only have one try?
17:46:52 <amalloy> there are certainly some "cheats" in the spelunky daily, of varying degrees. like maybe some people do actual multiple attempts, and some others just hear from others what kind of stuff to look out for before they attempt it
17:47:42 <amalloy> "today's daily is a better seed for score than speed, and the black market is on 2-2" is useful to know but some people might argue less cheaty
17:48:18 <advil> the brogue thing has "only one try" in the rules but it's not enforced
17:49:02 <advil> there's no equivalent of morgues or anything, so people just post a narrative description on the subreddit
17:49:40 <advil> I doubt if too many people are going to lie in that particular way
17:50:05 <advil> maybe people will read it before playing even though you're not supposed to, idk
17:53:02 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
18:03:26 <gammafunk> if they cheat in any way
18:03:38 <gammafunk> if there's even a report of them cheating, even just a rumor
18:03:42 <gammafunk> delete their account imo
18:04:30 <gammafunk> and remove all records of their games from sequell and CAO scoring
18:04:48 <gammafunk> we'll have a well-earned rep as the one true hardcore roguelike
18:07:27 <floraline> alexjurkiewicz: are you still using the steps that you sent me before for the challenge?
18:08:18 <alexjurkiewicz> yes, just enhanced now with more functionality
18:08:28 <alexjurkiewicz> want the latest versions of everything? It's still hacky
18:11:29 <floraline> i am excited to set it up, but not if it's going to take some tinkering on my end since i need to restart webtiles every time i want to make a change
18:11:47 <floraline> maybe i should wait until it's a little more defined as a game mode
18:15:44 <alexjurkiewicz> you never need to restart webtiles. But I haven't managed to automate the new character selection yet
18:15:57 <alexjurkiewicz> I probably could do this though... I'll ping you when it's cleaner then
18:19:43 <floraline> i'm on trunk, i need to restart to pick up any changes to the config whether i'm adding a new game or making a tiny tweak to a path or arg
18:20:06 <floraline> so if i don't get it quite right on the first try i'll have to restart every time i make another tweak
18:20:38 <floraline> at least i think i need to restart, if there's a way to reload the config that i don't know about i would love to learn it
18:22:43 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.24-a0-7-g1bb0902669 (34)
18:23:48 <floraline> it's not a big deal it just makes me a little reluctant to start poking around
19:11:47 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07* 0.24-a0-8-gbed441b: Dissapate Guardian Golem clouds out of LOS (11701) 10(12 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bed441b55a9d
19:17:23 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.24-a0-8-gbed441b55a (34)
19:25:26 <gammafunk> advil: did you want your most recent rng changes to be trunk-only?
19:36:21 <Cheibriados> 03GenericPseudonym02 {gammafunk} 07[stone_soup-0.23] * 0.23-b1-1-gb382bbe: Quiet confirm_action in the ability menu (11738) 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 13+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b382bbe037f5
19:36:21 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 {gammafunk} 07[stone_soup-0.23] * 0.23-b1-2-gf398d7c: Dissapate Guardian Golem clouds out of LOS (11701) 10(37 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f398d7cfb873
20:02:19 <floraline> does crawl actually build in webtiles-changes?
20:06:04 -!- ljksf2 is now known as dontgetcocky
20:08:16 <gammafunk> it should build, but it's very old
20:08:20 <gammafunk> %git webtiles-changes
20:08:20 <Cheibriados> 07Aidan Holm02 * 0.22-a0-600-gedba8dc: Merge branch 'master' into webtiles-changes 10(8 months ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/edba8dc7026a
20:08:30 <gammafunk> oh, I guess aidan did a recent merge
20:08:34 <gammafunk> but yeah, it should build fine
20:08:52 <gammafunk> no idea if webtiles works though
20:09:24 <gammafunk> esp merge conflicts with some recent webtiles changes could take some work
20:09:35 <gammafunk> if you wanted to merge master or something
20:13:32 <advil> gammafunk: I will merge them to 0.23 soon
20:13:32 <gammafunk> ok
20:13:32 <advil> "soon"
20:13:38 <gammafunk> I left them out of my cherry picking just now, so I'll let you do that
20:14:30 <advil> I tried to merge webtiles-changes around when I added muting and kind of gave up
20:14:58 <gammafunk> yeah, I was thinking about that and floraline's other improvements
20:16:00 <advil> er, merge master into webtiles-changes
20:16:24 <gammafunk> merging those would require non-trivial modifications to the branch
20:16:49 <gammafunk> basically it's continuing to rot; it would be cool if we could merge in some aspects of its configuration management, at least
20:16:54 <gammafunk> I just don't have time to do that right now
20:17:13 <gammafunk> although even that does have issues; the last thing I worked on for it was rollback upon configuration error
20:17:32 <gammafunk> because if you introduce one and tell it to reload its config, what happens?
20:17:48 <floraline> the configuration is what is attractive to me
20:17:51 <gammafunk> but the way I implemented said rollback is probably not too robust
20:18:27 <gammafunk> floraline: well, if you'd like a good project, taking a look at how webtiles changes manages its configuration and finding a nice path to get a similar system into webtiles trunk would be useful
20:18:50 <gammafunk> it's sort of low priority until someone cares enough or possibily implements something cool on top of it
20:19:24 <gammafunk> one of the last things I worked on in that branch was "janitor" asynchronous commands (a project that let me understand said async programming more and led me to create beem)
20:19:43 <gammafunk> the idea was that rebuilds would use this, and even better you could bring new experimentals online on the fly
20:19:53 <gammafunk> among other things
20:20:36 <gammafunk> it would have some interface for choosing a git branch to add to the configuration, stuff like that;  sadly there are things like dgl to deal with
20:21:02 <gammafunk> so I never quite got to that point and only got a test implementation of a crawl rebuild janitor working
20:21:46 <gammafunk> but something much less ambitious like just allowing the server to try to reload a config upon signal, which edlothiol introduced in webtiles-changes orginally, that would be nice
20:22:06 <gammafunk> the problem is sort of what to do if the new config is bad; simplest thing is to just shut down the server, of course
20:22:30 <floraline> i can't help but compare webtiles to nginx, when i need to mess around with nginx config i can reload all day and no ongoing connections are affected
20:22:37 <floraline> so i can keep tweaking and testing my changes
20:22:40 <gammafunk> or you could do something like the rollback I tried to implement, but again not very confident in that implementation
20:23:04 <floraline> but when i make a change to webtiles i have to have downtime
20:23:25 <gammafunk> yeah, the reloading part is actually an initial thing in webtiles-changes that was in the branch very early on, but
20:23:37 <gammafunk> it did not have any graceful handling of config errors
20:23:46 <gammafunk> not sure what nginx does when you introduce a config error
20:24:09 <floraline> nginx reloads bad configs very gracefully, it just says there is a problem and silently fails
20:24:18 <floraline> i don't think ongoing connections are affected and the running config is unchanged
20:24:23 <gammafunk> right, so sounds like it's effectively rolling back to the current config?
20:24:29 <gammafunk> that's what I was trying to implement
20:24:39 <floraline> i guess so, or it doesn't make any changes until it verifies your new config
20:24:47 <gammafunk> or did implement, but again it's untested and I'm not sure it's the best approach
20:27:00 <gammafunk> I think the other problem is that webtiles-changes may not be as stable or may have other subtle bugs; cpo had weird issues from time to time
20:27:15 <gammafunk> like that one guy that got some crazy score where it loaded meatspring into his game
20:28:08 <gammafunk> and there were some other strange bugs relatively early on in its history after it first came online running that branch
20:29:28 <gammafunk> s/meatspring/meatsprint/
20:37:54 <Pinkbeast> It was only when we did sprint scoring we realised different sprints have hilariously different scores
21:12:27 <alexjurkiewicz> we never tracked down that meatsprint CPO bug
21:13:11 <alexjurkiewicz> but amethyst (I think) added some sanity checks to crash the game if it happened again. And as far as I know it didn't happen again anyway
21:14:35 <floraline> it feels like any changes i propose in trunk will result in webtiles-changes diverging even further
21:14:59 <alexjurkiewicz> nobody but me uses webtiles-changes, so that's fine
21:15:31 <floraline> i don't want to contribute to its further rotting if there is still any hope of merging
21:15:37 <alexjurkiewicz> there are two killer features which stopped me migrating back when I rebuilt CPO late last year: reloading config live, and split config files
21:16:12 <alexjurkiewicz> well, I think gammafunk said it before and I agree: webtiles-changes is too old and unknown at this point, the way forward is to go back to normal webtiles and improve it incrementally
21:18:21 <alexjurkiewicz> like webtiles-changes uses a version of react which is 4 years old. Modernising it would probably be quite hard anyway
21:29:20 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
21:40:29 -!- CaptainFruitcake is now known as CanOfWorms
21:41:32 <gammafunk> yeah I wouldn't let webtiles-changes stop you from working on webtiles; it's more that we don't have anyone with time+expertise to revamp webtiles, really either for trunk or webtiles-changes
21:42:25 <gammafunk> if I had more time I could probably get a number of things in webtiles but someone who knows a lot more about these technologies could do something faster
21:43:52 <gammafunk> if you got enough functionality in trunk webtiles, I'm sure even alex would switch back
21:44:22 <gammafunk> well maybe not, he is perhaps too much of an IT hipster, but you could tempt him
21:46:57 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
21:51:40 <advil> today's exciting seed-related discovery: afaict `crawl.random_element {[a] = 3, [b] = 3, [c] = 1}` and the like isn't safe, because the c++ code has no way of iterating over the table in a determinate way (and in testing the iteration order varies apparently randomly)
21:53:57 <gammafunk> hrm, so there's not intrinsic element order for lua arrays? are the "indexed" arrays just keys basically?
21:54:23 <gammafunk> well that's not an array, I guess
21:54:25 <advil> yeah...if it were an indexed array I could do something
21:54:37 <advil> with these cases I haven't even figured out anything to be done
21:55:11 <ebering> dang
21:55:21 <advil> the way crawl.random_element is implemented it will also iterate randomly over an array
21:55:21 <alexjurkiewicz> gammafunk: I would definitely switch back if the two features I mentioned above were in mainline. They're pretty essential to my auto-update workflows now
21:55:38 <advil> that could probably be fixed
21:56:59 <gammafunk> splitting out config files is relatively easy; I think the basics of loading the config are likewise not too hard once we move config out of py files
21:57:12 <gammafunk> although it may be fine even inside of py files
21:57:23 <gammafunk> however how it handles failure is a big concern
21:57:41 <advil> this one was fun to find because I had to work backwards from build consequences, i.e. many steps down the line an item couldn't be placed on the first try because layout_twisted_cross had chosen a diamond room instead of a circle room and the target pos was a wall
21:59:42 <gammafunk> hrm, that looks like weighted choice
21:59:42 <gammafunk> yet I swear I recall using a different lua function than that one
22:00:17 <gammafunk> util.random_weighted_from
22:01:03 <gammafunk> so I guess that's the clua function
22:01:23 <gammafunk> but it's curious that there are two independent implementations of what's probably similar functionality for dlua and clua
22:01:32 <advil> hadn't looked at it yet but that one looks iffy too
22:01:56 <advil> one of them sorts at least
22:05:00 <gammafunk> --- Check if a table contains an item
22:05:00 <gammafunk> function util.contains(haystack, needle)
22:05:40 <advil> oh that's using an array I think
22:05:52 -!- ProzacElf_ is now known as ProzacElf
22:09:07 <alexjurkiewicz> gammafunk: if the loading is just for crawl versions and nothing else that would be sufficient
22:10:26 <gammafunk> yeah, that might make ensuring sane handling of errors easier to implement, but it's been a long time since I've looked at the relevant webtiles code
22:11:10 <gammafunk> we maybe need to document a wishlist for webtiles along with known issues
22:11:29 <gammafunk> sadly I can't commit to working on that in the near term myself, though
22:12:40 <gammafunk> I think my rollback was more ambitious, but you still have some data that you have to deep copy
22:13:13 <gammafunk> even if you only work with crawl config stuff, I mean
22:29:53 <floraline> is webtiles compatible with both python 2 and 3?
22:36:03 <alexjurkiewicz> gammafunk: if the loading is just for crawl versions and nothing else that would be sufficient
22:36:06 <alexjurkiewicz> oops, sorry
22:38:50 <advil> floraline no, because the tornado version is something that won't run in python 3
22:39:24 <advil> not sure about the rest of the webtiles code, there's probably not anything that wouldn't be too hard to update
23:00:49 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07* 0.24-a0-9-gb30acc4: Prompt before using bad or dangerous consumables (11836) 10(3 hours ago, 4 files, 31+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b30acc428711
23:04:35 <switch__> wow, way to try to force a meta
23:05:08 <switch__> in fact, i think we need more bad items
23:06:21 <ebering> truly bad items (degeneration potions) are no-brainers: you don't use them
23:06:47 <switch__> only because meta-forcing developers like you won't let me
23:06:54 <switch__> (the game actually doesn't let you chug more than one :( )
23:07:36 <switch__> i thought crawl was all about letting the player kill themselves
23:08:01 <Pinkbeast> "No spoilers" trumps that, presumably.
23:09:12 <ebering> I think you're talking about nethack
23:10:19 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07[stone_soup-0.23] * 0.23-b1-3-gdda8187: Prompt before using bad or dangerous consumables (11836) 10(3 hours ago, 4 files, 31+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dda8187c6f0d
23:11:44 <alexjurkiewicz> IMO the dangerous consumables are in a bad place, where they are bad 95% of the time but have some obscure good corner case
23:12:01 <alexjurkiewicz> like how you want to use !lig in the first couple of levels or tomb:3
23:12:17 <ebering> you might want to use lig
23:13:21 <switch__> lig+torment is a passable combo
23:13:38 <switch__> vuln is probably useful in some cases
23:13:41 <switch__> immo is hilarious
23:13:47 <Pinkbeast> alexjurkiewicz: Tree pots could tell you about the torment immunity in their description. (If they do in trunk, sorry).
23:14:54 <alexjurkiewicz> I think if the consumables become good in a wider variety of situations, that would be better item design
23:15:14 <switch__> well, i think immo is good in a lot of cases, there are just very few that strictly require it
23:15:39 <switch__> and thus it isn't used randomly because... you don't really need to
23:16:28 <switch__> i remember, as a new player playing mibe, keeping noise scrolls so i could attract the floor to me so i wouldn't have to look for them
23:16:32 <Pinkbeast> It may be because I'm bad, but I use tree pots more than "the first couple of levels". (I don't disagree re "wider variety of situations", I'm just saying right now the torment immunity is a bit spoilery)
23:16:39 <switch__> if noise scrolls were more like a mark they would probably be useful in that way
23:16:53 <alexjurkiewicz> I use noise in the same way, or when it woul be dangerous to walk forwards and lure
23:17:47 <|amethyst> I've often used !lig when fighting bees
23:18:20 <switch__> bees are also a very efficient way to unintentionally kill yourself with immo scrolls
23:18:58 <Pinkbeast> Mmm. Or if I get cornered (because I'm bad), a tree and an ambrosia usually results in getting a lump of HP and MP refill - and it's particularly handy if random movement could make things worse, because now I can flail away during the confuse.
23:19:07 <ebering> Pinkbeast: the item description doesn't mention the details, but the form description for Tree form has the full information
23:19:37 <switch__> i imagine most people, when they use it for the first time, will check what horrible thing just happened to them
23:19:44 <Pinkbeast> ebering: I grant the latter part of this is so but I submit the item description would be an obvious place to put it
23:20:07 <|amethyst> yeah, it's a lot easier to find item help than form help
23:20:12 <|amethyst> s/help/descriptions/g
23:20:32 <Pinkbeast> switch__: I can't speak for most people but I certainly didn't.
23:20:37 <|amethyst> alternatively, a link from the item description to the form description, and likewise for transformation spells
23:20:57 <|amethyst> but that would require some UI changes
23:20:57 <|amethyst> and is kind of special-casey
23:21:11 <switch__> (i think there are a lot of things in crawl that require reading/intentionally seeking out the rules, and that's presently unavoidable)
23:25:47 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07* 0.24-a0-10-gb84795d: Describe tree form in potion of lignification (damerell) 10(50 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b84795dc94a1
23:26:00 <ebering> you can look at pantone swatches all day
23:26:00 <ebering> or you can paint the bikeshed with white
23:26:27 <Pinkbeast> Thanks
23:33:46 <advil> !vault ossuary_zaba_flooded
23:33:47 <Sequell> 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/ossuary.des#L635
23:34:02 <switch__> lol
23:34:21 <advil> I wonder if the use of x,y in mapgrd[x][y] later in this is really what's intended? it's just the leftover variables from the for loop
23:35:24 <advil> oh maybe it's not
23:35:40 <advil> I missed the wrapping function there
23:35:45 <switch__> i'm not 100% sure but i think that's called seperately
23:35:46 <switch__> yeah
23:36:01 <advil> also, what are w and W there?
23:36:14 <gammafunk> deep and shallow water
23:36:17 <gammafunk> respectively, probably
23:36:37 <gammafunk> since I see mapgrd
23:36:46 <gammafunk> those are the default glyph mappings of those glyphs in DES
23:36:47 <advil> well they aren't strings
23:36:58 <gammafunk> sorry?
23:37:10 <gammafunk> oh, yes those are strings
23:37:19 <gammafunk> its lua syntax for table keys
23:37:24 <gammafunk> it implicitly makes them strings
23:37:29 <advil> really?
23:37:32 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.24-a0-9-gb30acc4287 (34)
23:37:38 <gammafunk> I don't have a reference link, but if you google lua table
23:37:38 <advil> that's almost as good as 1 indexing
23:37:44 <gammafunk> haha
23:38:27 <gammafunk> I recall PF learning that variables are default global scope in lua
23:38:39 <gammafunk> he said "Then why would anyone ever program in lua?!"
23:38:52 <advil> do you know if x and c are treated as strings or as variables there?
23:38:57 <gammafunk> they are strings
23:39:01 <gammafunk> also glyphs
23:39:06 <gammafunk> rock and stone walls, respectively
23:39:57 <gammafunk> https://www.lua.org/pil/3.6.html
23:40:00 <advil> is it the missing [] that disambiguates?
23:40:36 <gammafunk> Those two constructor forms have their limitations. For instance, you cannot initialize fields with negative indices, or with string indices that are not proper identifiers. For such needs, there is another, more general, format. In this format, we explicitly write the index to be initialized as an expression, between square brackets:
23:40:50 <advil> I might choose not to use this "feature"
23:41:08 <gammafunk> yeah, maybe so, but it's probably used a bunch
23:41:22 <gammafunk> and we would need something to warn people about it, I guess?
23:42:07 <gammafunk> we could call it enbracket
23:47:14 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.24-a0-10-gb84795dc94 (34)