00:25:42 support telnet :D 00:31:25 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.23-a0-756-g517b432 (34) 01:28:15 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.23-a0-756-g517b432 (34) 01:59:26 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.23-a0-756-g517b432 02:00:11 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 02:23:50 -!- ProzacElf_ is now known as ProzacElf 02:37:05 re: getting a better introductory experience to new players 02:39:45 we have the + key on the character creation screen that picks a "Recommended species" or "Recommended background" from the selection screen 02:40:12 for species, it doesn't seem to actually do anything useful if a background hasn't been picked yet 02:40:29 for example the game gave me demigod, naga and barachi when I rolled 3 species 02:40:56 you could have those options pick a specific subset of species/backgrounds if nothing was selected yet 02:41:48 then you can also change the key to be easier to press, for me typing + on a keyboard is a fairly complicated action compared to typing a single character 02:50:47 well, as a new player, you'll probably go into it understanding what all of the backgrounds mean (e.g. pick "fighter" for a weapon and pick "ice mage" for ice magic), but almost certainly not what all the races mean 02:51:11 so even though to an experienced player it makes no difference or even makes less sense to pick a background first, it might be better for new players 02:51:57 in which case recommended species would actually be helpful 02:52:12 CanOfWorms: a quick peek at newgame.cc suggests indeed that if you are picking the first of species or background, the "recommended" option on + is indeed a random one. 02:53:09 Also, this is down to the default dgamelaunch config, but on console, the tutorial is hidden in a submenu. 02:53:18 you can still classify backgrounds by complexity, and have the recommended background option give a small selection of backgrounds when picked 02:54:20 CanOfWorms: Sure, I agree in both cases it could do something better (especially better than "secretly just pick at random"); I just mean, from the source, I think your observation it seems to be random is correct 02:54:39 yeah, I was responding to the idea of making background selection the first choice 02:56:04 There are some species you can never get if you do random background then recommended species - formicid is one. 02:56:50 And froggo is another, which is odd because froggo is pretty good at most things. 02:57:13 I suspect the list of recommended species for each job sees less attention when new species are added. 02:57:41 Newgnoll, too! 02:59:00 (And it's not that these are too hard or weird because you can get to mummy or kitty) 02:59:56 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.23-a0-756-g517b432 03:51:12 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-1478-g0a37a291d1 10:36:47 how long have I been doing this, and *every time* I'm looking for something to do with the beginning of the game I have to check every one of main.cc, newgame.cc, initfile.cc and startup.cc before I remember where it is 10:38:03 me too 10:38:13 it would be a cool documentation project that would sadly go immediately stale to make a high level flowchart of crawl control flow 10:38:23 (no autogenerated garbage that would be a spaghetti bowl) 10:38:55 ebering: have you seen my (now quite outdated) flowchart of elemental damage? 10:38:56 ghc's Commentary would be nice 10:39:09 well, something like 10:39:28 I've thought about doing it for other things too, but it was kind of a big project 10:40:26 https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/6290753/14384924/beecef50-fd6b-11e5-9633-bff23c525c7a.png 10:41:36 although probably only a few things about specific spells have gone stale, plus the calls to expose_to_element 12:27:06 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.23-a0-756-g517b432 (34) 12:35:21 New branch created: pull/951 (18 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/951 12:35:21 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/951 * 0.23-a0-757-ge8540f5: Convert `enum shadow_step_block_reason` to an enum class 10(29 hours ago, 2 files, 21+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e8540f590f5d 12:35:21 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/951 * 0.23-a0-758-g924a7dd: Convert `enum passage_type` to an enum class 10(29 hours ago, 1 file, 8+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/924a7dde4d6c 12:35:21 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/951 * 0.23-a0-759-g53e9e0d: Convert `enum branch_noise_level` to `enum class branch_noise` 10(27 hours ago, 3 files, 51+ 51-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/53e9e0db99bb 12:35:21 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/951 * 0.23-a0-760-g905ad45: Convert `enum branch_iterator_type` to an enum class 10(27 hours ago, 3 files, 6+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/905ad4569c6e 12:35:21 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/951 * 0.23-a0-761-ga259082: Convert `enum menu_type` to an enum class 10(26 hours ago, 19 files, 70+ 60-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a25908222f83 12:35:21 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/951 * 0.23-a0-762-gb090c9c: Change `enum activity_interrupt_type` to `enum class activity_interrupt` 10(23 hours ago, 26 files, 127+ 107-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b090c9c2107c 12:35:21 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/951 * 0.23-a0-763-ge63a107: Rename activity_interrupt_type.h to activity_interrupt.h 10(3 hours ago, 6 files, 31+ 31-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e63a107b2677 12:35:21 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/951 * 0.23-a0-764-g681e00d: Convert `enum ev_ignore_bit` to `enum class ev_ignore` 10(5 hours ago, 11 files, 22+ 22-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/681e00db75fd 12:35:21 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/951 * 0.23-a0-765-gee64fa3: Convert `enum ac_type` to an enum class 10(5 hours ago, 10 files, 24+ 23-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ee64fa35abbf 12:35:21 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/951 * 0.23-a0-766-g17dfa39: Convert `enum area_centre_type` to an enum class 10(5 hours ago, 3 files, 35+ 32-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/17dfa39355f8 12:35:21 ... and 8 more commits 12:43:02 03advil02 07* 0.23-a0-757-g146c441: Handle pre-scrolled help screens correctly 10(64 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/146c4415506c 12:43:02 03advil02 07* 0.23-a0-758-g4cc9efd: Show item help in newgame weapon menu 10(55 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4cc9efd76a12 12:43:02 03advil02 07* 0.23-a0-759-ga1c2b65: Fix a help bug that isn't triggered 10(25 minutes ago, 1 file, 20+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a1c2b65f233c 12:43:02 03advil02 07* 0.23-a0-760-gaaf14ca: Show version history in `?v` if a save has been upgraded 10(2 minutes ago, 3 files, 19+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/aaf14ca3918b 12:48:29 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/951 * 0.23-a0-775-g59bdbf0: Convert `enum confirm_butcher_type` to an enum class 10(2 hours ago, 3 files, 10+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/59bdbf0472cc 12:48:44 refactor machine 12:49:08 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-760-gaaf14ca391 (34) 12:53:46 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/951 * 0.23-a0-775-gf627a0e: Convert `enum confirm_butcher_type` to an enum class 10(2 hours ago, 4 files, 12+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f627a0e95ca2 12:54:25 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:05:06 -!- muffindrake1 is now known as muffindrake 13:10:51 03advil02 07* 0.23-a0-761-g7db0834: Show sprint manual section in sprint newgame menu 10(26 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7db0834d6910 13:17:08 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-761-g7db0834d69 (34) 13:22:37 for the species categories, what determined order on the newgame menus within category? 13:23:13 IIRC there was some talk of making sure that `a` ended up as HO or Mi, but I can't really remember anything beyond that 13:28:07 fwiw it seems to have been added in 43cdf580475 by Lasty, with no comment on why that order was chosen 13:29:24 oh, i lied 13:29:29 "I tried to rank by relative ease of learning within each group as well." 13:29:39 ah ok 13:55:38 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/wiki/User-Interface-Improvements 13:55:58 curated from the docu-wiki for things that are still relevant to modern crawl 13:56:33 Some of these look very aproachable, easy to give to new contributors looking for something to do 14:02:26 !learn e ebering[3 s/^c/bugs: 11806, 11792, 11814, 11812, 11703 c/ 14:02:27 ebering[3/4]: bugs: 11806, 11792, 11814, 11812, 11703 consider: parallel map/objstat, stat nightlies 14:53:36 03advil02 07* 0.23-a0-762-g3cc1399: Editing/reordering pass for the species appendix of the manual 10(33 minutes ago, 1 file, 294+ 227-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3cc139955bcc 14:53:36 03advil02 07* 0.23-a0-763-g1fcf643: Editing/reorganizing pass through backgrounds 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 112+ 69-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1fcf643b8ee4 14:54:35 probably would be good if others glance through those changes, in case I accidentally said something wrong, controversial or hypothetically-optimally-wrong ;-) 15:01:46 i'll do a copy-editing pass 15:02:02 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-763-g1fcf643b8e (34) 15:03:06 advil: did you do any editing of the species descriptions themselves, or just move them around? 15:03:19 yes, I did editing throughout 15:03:59 yeah, hard to spot with a single diff. I probably did at least light editing to most species 15:04:23 advil: I think that if I leave comments on the commit in github you'll get notified? 15:04:36 blarf. that will indeed make diffs hard to spot. i'll leave the species descriptions alone for now, at least 15:04:48 maybe...feel free to just commit changes though 15:05:00 for backgrounds I edited basically every background 15:05:02 hard to do that on my phone on the train 15:05:11 maybe I'll just do it later 15:06:58 03amalloy02 {GitHub} 07* 0.23-a0-764-g46380d4: Copy-edit changes to species description section 10(7 seconds ago, 1 file, 7+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/46380d4bfaae 15:10:18 hm our rst parser does something weird with links 15:10:50 advil: adding starting gear to the backgrounds section is interesting - it surely makes it more usable but also will almost surely get out of date if we ever change a background 15:10:57 yep 15:11:17 it already had some gear, just very inconsistently 15:11:38 there's also another place to get out of sync, which is the short text that displays while selecting things in the newgame menu 15:11:42 also, i wonder if the section on magic backgrounds was originally written by a different person 15:11:50 since it suddenly switches from plural to singular 15:11:56 oh heh, didn't notice that 15:12:52 it's possible that the starting gear part of these entries could be generated 15:15:10 03amalloy02 {GitHub} 07* 0.23-a0-765-g73c39a4: Copy edit background section of the manual 10(11 seconds ago, 1 file, 7+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/73c39a48879e 15:17:07 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-765-g73c39a4887 (34) 15:27:02 amalloy: "Ice Elementalitss start with the Book of Frost." just to let you know you made a typo :) 15:27:03 NP7: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 15:27:11 !messages 15:27:12 (1/2) advil said (1d 16m 28s ago): I'm guessing you might be misunderstanding, when checkwhite prints "CR: file" it's *removing* a CR, not adding; the repo uses unix-style line endings. Possibly you have your editor set to use windows-style line endings and it's adding them in for checkwhite to get annoyed at? 15:27:32 !messages 15:27:33 (1/1) advil said (1d 15m 55s ago): granted, git should autoconvert to unix line endings in any case, so the checkwhite check is a bit redundant 15:27:53 yea, thankfully -r exists 15:29:52 03amalloy02 {GitHub} 07* 0.23-a0-766-g6cd010e: Fix typo (NormalPerson7) 10(10 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6cd010e738cd 15:32:08 man, of *course* we have our own hand-rolled rst parser 15:32:10 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-766-g6cd010e738 (34) 15:46:09 03advil02 07* 0.23-a0-767-gdc19b93: Fix two problems in unrest.pl 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dc19b93d686e 15:48:19 hm once we fully have python as a dep, maybe we could use docutils instead of that perl script to generate the manual 16:02:14 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-767-gdc19b93d68 (34) 16:07:32 is the "DCSS Online" android app officially supported and/or recommended? 16:08:24 it's not devteam-maintained, if that's what you mean 16:09:07 I know a lot of people have had good experiences with it 16:09:16 and it seems to get regular updates 16:10:00 it's also *way* more recommended than whatever the current state of the android builds is 16:24:27 thanks. i have a user asking why this app is crashing on their device 16:24:45 yeah, that should go to the developer 16:24:59 i don't suppose you have his contact info 16:24:59 does /win 3 16:25:01 oops 16:25:39 http://www.newtzgames.com/ 16:26:42 oh hey, that was unexpected. thank you, i will forward this along :) 16:52:22 er, what's wrong with using `` in commit messages? 16:52:32 I do it all the time, don't plan on stopping :) 16:53:32 there are many cases where it's not necessary, but plenty of cases where making a use/mention distinction for bits of code is actually necessary for clarity IMO 16:54:27 gammafunk complained about it 16:54:32 so I dunno 16:54:45 I've got no strong opinoin either way 16:55:40 !flip gammafunk 16:55:40 (╯°□°)╯︵ ʞunɟɐɯɯɐƃ 17:00:02 can't find the discussion 17:00:11 well, not a huge deal 17:23:27 !flip `gammafunk` 17:23:28 (╯°□°)╯︵ ,ʞunɟɐɯɯɐƃ, 17:23:29 is what i think you meant 17:23:57 my only complaint about using `` in commit messages is that it's hard to do in bash because the shell tries to interpolate them 17:32:17 The build passed. (master - dc19b93 #10901 : advil): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/481534076 17:32:26 advil: Well, if you think it's fine to use, then that's fine; It messes up the commit output in GitHub's discord bot, but that's not a huge deal 17:32:40 oh, and I specifically meant the commit title 17:32:42 to be clear 17:33:18 In the commit body it's certainly fine; I guess it's not that reasonable to make a distinction between the two 17:34:34 it vaguely felt analogous to how we stipulate no more than 72 chars in the commit message title but allow possibly a longer line limit in the commit body 17:34:48 like maybe the title shouldn't have that wacky formatting, but it's ok in the commit body 17:36:27 hey, the webtiles for Android dev made a game called 'Goblin Market' 17:36:41 perhaps we can use some of that content 17:47:46 oh, I see 17:48:10 I thought discord handles markdown? 17:48:33 I think the bot uses markdown to format the output 17:48:44 and then your commit is essentially adding some and it gets confused? 17:49:07 but obviously GitHub's discord bot shouldn't be a reason to not use commit formatting anyhow 17:49:12 maybe they'll fix that 17:51:13 i think you mean, someone's github discord bot. i don't think github has an official one 17:51:57 advil: Example: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/325651923514556417/535954460413788181/unknown.png 17:52:26 that looks like working as intended to me 17:56:51 hrm? It very clearly has an incorrect formating in what would be the third commit 18:00:27 oh, i see 18:00:53 i didn't get that far. funny bug. seems clear what they're doing wrong but i'm not sure what the fix should be 18:01:25 And the bot is a service directly provided by Discord. Although technically not GitHub's bot, it's certainly an official Discord service: https://support.discordapp.com/hc/en-us/articles/228383668-Intro-to-Webhooks 18:19:54 03argonaut02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/949 * 0.23-a0-715-g39ef0ca: The unrand demon trident "Rift" with distortion and extended reach 10(2 days ago, 6 files, 70+ 34-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/39ef0ca9f59c 18:19:54 03argonaut02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/949 * 0.23-a0-716-g1871f09: Remove rmsl from "Rift" 10(25 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1871f099fa8c 18:23:23 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-767-gdc19b93d68 (34) 20:23:46 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 20:53:42 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy