00:33:52 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.23-a0-512-g50a8178 (34)
00:38:34 <alexjurkiewicz> floraline: how do you measure player count?
00:38:48 <alexjurkiewicz> do you mean people stopped playing because it was laggy, or the server ran out of memory?
00:39:03 <floraline> i'm just counting whatever sits in the inprogress directories
00:39:15 <floraline> i suspect people stopped playing because it was laggy
00:39:23 <floraline> it did not run out of memory or anything like that
00:39:47 <alexjurkiewicz> cool. TBH I would be surprised if compilation makes an impact on server responsiveness
00:39:48 <alexjurkiewicz> that's what the niceness of compilation is meant to prevent
00:40:07 <floraline> well it could just be unrelated
00:40:14 <floraline> that's not really what concerns me though
00:40:32 <floraline> a couple people have said they noticed the game "freezing" and suddenly spewing out their commands all at once
00:40:38 <floraline> i noticed this myself
00:41:38 <floraline> i'm not sure if that's because my neighbors are stealing my CPU or if it's just typical network congestion?
00:44:28 <floraline> i can catch top reporting 2%-3% stolen every few seconds, even with so much idle cpu
00:45:27 <alexjurkiewicz> 2-3% shouldn't be a lot
00:45:35 <alexjurkiewicz> *shouldn't cause any issues
00:46:10 <alexjurkiewicz> I have seen the issue you talk about, but it's not clear to me what the cause is
00:46:57 <alexjurkiewicz> if it's correlated with rebuilds I mean yeah it must be the rebuild. But I would make sure it's not just that's the only time you look for problems. Niced process chewing up idle CPU should (theoretically) have near-zero impact on everything else
00:48:06 <floraline> i'm not convinced the build caused any problems, it just came to mind
00:48:25 <geekosaur> certain parts of ti wil also have I/O load; iotop might be worth looking at, followed by ionice if needed
00:48:39 <geekosaur> (the linker can do quite a lot of I/O)
00:49:05 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
01:05:17 <floraline> i think i need to migrate the server myself if i want to switch to a dedicated cpu
01:05:27 <floraline> i'm not too happy with DO's resizing tools
02:00:31 <alexjurkiewicz> ebering: is there meant to be description of dispersal trap
02:00:36 <alexjurkiewicz> in x-v
02:26:13 <Henzell> boozy (L15 HOFi) ASSERT(load_mode != LOAD_VISITOR) in 'files.cc' at line 1325 failed. (D:12)
02:43:49 <Kelbell> Webtiles server stopped.
02:46:58 <gammafunk> that's an ominous crash message
03:30:55 <Kelbell> Experimental (known-traps) branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-452-g832989fd9b
04:12:18 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
04:52:34 -!- TAS-2012v is now known as TAS_2012v
06:56:47 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07* 0.23-a0-513-g0b42d88: Update trap descriptions 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0b42d886e680
07:02:20 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-513-g0b42d886e6 (34)
09:51:01 <advil> are turn 0 traps actually possible? there are are reports of them
09:54:34 <Pinkbeast> !lg * turn<=6 D:4 -log
09:54:36 <Sequell> 1. soulfreshner, XL1 DsWn, T:6: https://crawl.project357.org/morgue/soulfreshner/morgue-soulfreshner-20181204-080223.txt
09:55:16 <ebering> !lg soulfreshner D:4 DsWn -tv
09:55:17 <Sequell> 2. soulfreshner, XL1 DsWn, T:6 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org.
09:55:18 <Pinkbeast> Did you see this? It is the only T:6- death on D:4+; I don't know if it was simply very unlikely in the old traps regime or impossible, but it seemed like it might merit reporting
09:55:26 <ebering> mm tv is down
09:55:38 <ebering> it was very unlikely but not impossible with old traps
09:55:42 <Pinkbeast> The dump tells you everything I think
09:56:17 <ebering> turn 0 shafts should not be possible though
09:56:26 <Pinkbeast> Anyway, thought I'd mention it - it seems a remarkable coincidence that just after the change someone should have the quickest deepest death ever
09:57:15 <ebering> well by should not be possible I mean I dont think that's good but it does appear to be a side-effect of what I've done
09:57:17 <advil> 0 | D:1      | You fall through a shaft!
09:57:54 <Pinkbeast> Perhaps the interesting bit is the turn 0 shaft, and the turn 1 shaft and turn 6 splat are just ordinary pisspoor luck
09:58:01 <ebering> yes
09:58:38 <advil> it's too bad you can't shaft between branches
09:58:57 <advil> imagine a turn 0 shaft to zot!
09:59:43 <ebering> oh, I set it so you can't double-shaft without making a move inbetwee shaft 1 and shaft 2
09:59:57 <advil> do random trap effects apply when you land from being shafted?
09:59:57 <advil> ah
10:00:02 <advil> I think that answers my questions
10:00:06 <advil> *question
10:00:33 <ebering> not quite. Random traps get rolled, but if it comes up shaft it doesn't shaft you
10:00:42 <ebering> so you can get a shaft+alarm or shaft+tele
10:00:52 <advil> I see
10:06:56 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07* 0.23-a0-514-gdd405ac: Don't roll traps on turn 0 10(83 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dd405ac4cc98
10:07:09 <ebering> there we go
10:07:14 <advil> btw another thing I was wondering, does anything happen with no_trap_gen?
10:07:48 <ebering> the level builder still places random floor traps, and no_trap_gen prevents them
10:07:59 <ebering> but the decision to roll_traps doesn't check no_trap_gen
10:08:02 <advil> ok
10:08:10 <ebering> I'm not sure that's even available after level build?
10:08:11 <advil> yeah, that makes sense from a spoileriness perspective
10:08:53 <advil> though I wonder what designs does it impact
10:09:59 <advil> mm I think there may be some things to address here
10:10:03 <advil> sprints, tutorials
10:12:53 <advil> it looks like explore traps should just be flat-out disabled in both of those
10:13:46 <advil> if they aren't
10:13:53 <advil> in that all sprints seem to currently have no_trap_gen (and some definitely need that, like linesprint)
10:14:13 <ebering> I don't think they are, at least not explicitly
10:14:40 <ebering> shaafts are impossible, and I think in sprint and tutoriaal the depth is 1
10:15:22 <ebering> teleportitis also vetos for sprint
10:15:32 <ebering> an explicit check should be added
10:17:04 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-514-gdd405ac4cc (34)
10:17:15 <advil> I guess those two are the biggest issue for sprints
10:23:59 <advil> ossuaries may be another thing to look at
10:25:04 <ebering> explore traps don't roll in portals
10:25:38 <advil> yeah, but what I mean is that most of the existing designs (which one may or may not think of as good) rely on non-visible mechanical traps
10:25:52 <advil> rolling up a few of them they seem a bit broken now
10:26:12 <advil> it may make sense just to enable explore traps in ossuaries?
10:26:36 <advil> that would be the quickest fix to the existing theme
10:26:45 <advil> (if you actually want to fix it)
10:27:42 <ebering> that'd be a weird special case
10:27:55 <ebering> I'd prefer to look at the ossuary maps and see what can change there
10:28:04 <advil> true, but the existing theme is basically undead + hidden traps everywhere
10:28:57 <ebering> the existing maps were also super spoilery wrt the mechanical traps
10:29:14 <advil> yes, that's what I mean by the designs may or may not be good
10:31:48 <ebering> I think that "tomb-esque layout, undead + traps" can still work with the changes to alarm traps
10:31:57 <ebering> the mechanical traps become ever more flavour
10:32:01 <ebering> maybe we can remove them
10:32:47 <advil> sry to come up with all this corner-case feedback only after merge :)
10:34:18 <advil> I wonder if something could be done in ossuaries with those trap-like things (iirc not implemented as traps) where you step on a button that triggers an effect
10:34:43 <advil> so the button is visible but the effect is not
10:34:53 <advil> though right now the only two effects I remember may not work
10:35:06 <advil> grates, spiders
10:35:51 <ebering> no worries
10:35:54 <advil> hm actually I suspect because those aren't implemented as traps they are still unrevealed?
10:36:07 <ebering> they are implemented as traps and are revealed
10:36:11 <advil> ah ok
11:31:47 <ebering> I heard back from github on why the audio issue disappeared: their useraccount got flagged as maybe spamming :P
11:32:08 <ebering> after manual review it was reinstated
11:40:37 <advil> ebering huh, weird...did they say any more? the only thing that account has (now at least) is one open issue in one repository
11:43:03 <advil> also I wish people would stop posting "pls use a tracker" in that thread
11:46:46 <switch__> there aren't many classes that are actually afraid of ossuary traps
11:46:51 <switch__> but there were definitely a few
11:47:40 <switch__> but i don't think it's meant to be extremely difficult anyway, considering it's a pushover for the majority of classes, so it probably doesn't matter if you remove the arrow traps and stuff
11:48:03 <ebering> advil: I don't know that much about audio, but I am inclined to agree with the "pls use a tracker" posters even if they are getting annoying
11:48:25 <advil> well, ok, I can see the appeal, but that's just not what this offer is
11:48:37 <advil> the people offering to do the work have no experience with trackers
11:48:41 <ebering> that's true
11:49:42 <advil> I'm also sometimes a hobby electronic music composer fwiw, that suggestion is basically saying, please do this utterly different thing that you don't know how to do and will lower the odds of this issue ever going anywhere drastically in consequence
11:50:08 <advil> I also think it would be a lot harder for us
11:50:28 <ebering> I have no sense of the relative difficulty of re-mixing and updating between the two approaches
11:50:38 <ebering> Tiles have had a long term health because just about anyone can edit a png
11:51:04 <ebering> and there are mature, well developed, easy to use foss applications for doing so
11:52:55 <switch__> regarding the most recent issue, has anyone put work into that possibility in the past?
11:53:01 <switch__> i've read https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:interface:translation:implementation but it seems pretty dated
11:56:33 <advil> imo there is very little decent foss music software of any kind. audacity is good for audio editing, and vcv rack is good; there are some ok free (but maybe not oss?) synthesizers. Renoise is decent and nearly free, but definitely not oss. Everything else I've tried is terrible, buggy, and light-years behind commercial software.
11:56:53 <floraline> ebering: please do make sure explore traps are completely disabled in tutorial
12:01:06 <ebering> advil: dang. well, if that's the state then I'm guessing that everyone who has the skill to contribute has the software also?
12:03:59 <advil> ebering: Pretty much. I should say it's definitely possible these days to legally get a good bit of decent software for not too much money. There's a range of decent free synthesizers, and there are a bunch of cheap/available DAWs (anyone with a mac has garage band, reaper is pretty great in many ways and super cheap, + renoise if you want to use a tracker)
12:06:14 <advil> so if the format is audio, there's a lot of ways to contribute
12:07:07 <advil> rereading the issue, it is framed in a way that would be open to using something like a tracker, so maybe those replies aren't off-topic
12:07:31 <advil> I just think they're unrealistic for volunteers who are ableton-based (speaking as someone who is also ableton-based)
12:12:43 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07* 0.23-a0-515-g898447a: Better trap-effect sequencing 10(34 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/898447a55350
12:12:57 <ebering> might help if you chime in saying so
12:13:01 <advil> probably
12:13:10 <advil> I'm just trying to figure out how to do it in a non-cranky way
12:13:22 <ebering> mmm
12:13:36 <ebering> have lunch and then do it
12:13:38 <advil> heh
12:13:40 <advil> probably wise
12:17:10 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-515-g898447a553 (34)
12:28:25 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.23-a0-514-gdd405ac (34)
13:37:23 <advil> I wonder what other oss games with music do
13:40:36 <advil> wow, wesnoth has a lot of effort spent on this
13:44:13 <advil> though it's maybe a bit moribund, looks like there was a wave of effort with someone who was the "music director" for a few years, then much less since then
13:46:02 <Lantell> Webtiles server stopped.
13:46:52 <Lantell> Webtiles server stopped.
13:46:53 <Lantell> Webtiles server started.
14:06:13 <switch__> are players able to download save files off of akrasiac?
14:06:20 <ebering> no
14:11:14 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07* 0.23-a0-516-g0f8c245: Do not include explore traps in sprint and tutorial 10(16 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0f8c2457b6c9
14:17:05 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-516-g0f8c2457b6 (34)
16:51:53 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
17:05:07 <alexjurkiewicz> ebering: this might be a bit game-y for crawl, but maybe the chance of traps should be reduced after one is activated and have it slowly grow back to normal chance over a few hundred turns
17:06:46 <amalloy> what problem is that solving
17:39:32 <alexjurkiewicz> getting shafted twice in a row
18:07:14 <switch__> well, if the chance of getting shafted is so high that you conceivably get shafted twice in a row, manually introducing a cooldown would be a hacky band-aid at best
18:07:25 <switch__> but maybe not
18:15:07 <amalloy> alexjurkiewicz: i think the laws of probability solve that problem reasonably well: if being shafted is a rare event, being shafted twice in quick succession will be substantially rarer
18:19:57 <amalloy> i might believe something more like "the chance of being shafted should decrease when shafting is more dangerous", eg if you are badly hurt or are already too deep for your XL (i don't love it, but maybe it's okay). based on turns doesn't feel like the right thing to change
18:23:19 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-516-g0f8c2457b6 (34)
18:25:34 <ebering> ah ha!
18:25:35 <ebering> it worked!
18:26:53 <ebering> Lasty: hi
18:27:36 <Lasty> hey ebering!
18:27:36 <Sequell> Lasty: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
18:28:28 <alexjurkiewicz> amalloy: I was thinking about putting a finger on the scales to make the time between trap events more consistent. Similar to what dota does with random numbers https://dota2.gamepedia.com/Random_distribution
18:28:35 <Lasty> Congrats on dev! I know that's pretty delayed. :p
18:28:41 <alexjurkiewicz> hey, it's you!!!
18:29:24 <ebering> alexjurkiewicz: I'm not convinced the small chance of double shafting is bad
18:29:47 <ebering> &versions
18:30:06 <Sequell> CAO: 0.23-a0-514-gdd405ac, CBRO: 0.23-a0-512-g50a8178, CDO: 0.23-a0-494-g91793a9, CKO: 0.23-a0-516-g0f8c2457b6, CPO: 0.23-a0-516-g0f8c245, CUE: 0.23-a0-494-g91793a9df2, CWZ: 0.23-a0-494-g91793a9, CXC: 0.23-a0-512-g50a8178, LLD: 0.23-a0-515-g898447a553
18:30:50 <Lasty> Double-shafting is brutal, but I don't particularly think it's bad, FWIW
18:31:17 <ebering> as long as its sufficiently rare
18:31:46 <ebering> I'm not sure if you've been reading the commit log
18:31:56 <Lasty> I haven't -- I've been checked out pretty much entirely this year
18:32:01 <Lasty> Sounds like I should
18:32:17 <ebering> I merged that trap branch I showed you in the summer (after some revisions and playtesting ofc)
18:32:21 <Lasty> ah, nice!
18:32:30 <ebering> %git :/'turn zero'
18:32:31 <Cheibriados> Could not find commit :/'turn zero' (git returned 128)
18:32:35 <Lasty> Finally trap reform! :D
18:32:36 <alexjurkiewicz> ebering: oh i missed that trap sequencing fix
18:32:39 <ebering> %git :/{turn zero}
18:32:39 <Cheibriados> Could not find commit :/{turn zero} (git returned 128)
18:33:01 <geekosaur> %git :/turn.zero
18:33:02 <Cheibriados> 07Grunt02 * 0.13-a0-3166-gc239fa7: Remove TURN_ZERO_WIZARD (elliptic, bh). 10(5 years ago, 2 files, 0+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c239fa778485
18:33:18 <geekosaur> %git :/turn zero
18:33:18 <Cheibriados> 07Grunt02 * 0.13-a0-3166-gc239fa7: Remove TURN_ZERO_WIZARD (elliptic, bh). 10(5 years ago, 2 files, 0+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c239fa778485
18:33:22 <geekosaur> bah
18:33:22 <ebering> %git :/turn 0
18:33:22 <Cheibriados> 07ebering02 * 0.23-a0-514-gdd405ac: Don't roll traps on turn 0 10(8 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dd405ac4cc98
18:33:29 <ebering> the real problem
18:33:38 <ebering> ??rebuild
18:33:39 <Sequell> rebuild[1/2]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ http://underhound.eu:81/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ http://crawl.xtahua.com/rebuild/ https://crawl.kelbi.org/rebuild/ Bug gammafunk, advil, |amethyst, or Nap.Kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely.
18:34:12 <Lasty> How ya liking the current state of traps?
18:34:14 <ebering> CBRO and CXC have known-traaps but not that commit so I'm gonna rebuild
18:34:15 <Lasty> (post-push
18:34:50 <ebering> a few growing pains (turns out that the dungeon exit gives false on feat_is_stairs!)
18:35:03 <Lasty> hahaha
18:35:10 <Lasty> Those are fun surprises to be sure
18:35:44 <ebering> hm it seems I don't yet have dgl-admin on cbro
18:35:53 <Lasty> Currently all traps are visible -- are they also all pre-generated (as previously) or did you go with the triggered-by-exploration thing we've discussed?
18:36:10 <ebering> traps are visible and pre-generated
18:36:19 <ebering> and then independent from them exploration can trigger trap-like effects
18:36:29 <Lasty> Oh, interesting!
18:36:41 <Lasty> does doing that also place a trap, or just do it as a one-off?
18:37:05 <ebering> just a one-off
18:38:24 <ebering> also the teleport effect is the teleportitis one
18:39:23 <alexjurkiewicz> what happens if a monster steps on dispersal trap outside player view? does it do nothing? blink only that monster? curious minds NEED to know
18:39:38 <ebering> It triggers normally
18:39:54 <alexjurkiewicz> doesn't it's normal effect blink all monsters in the player's LOS?
18:40:00 <Lasty> so monsters can blink into view from teleport and dispersal traps? Are they the only two that work out of LOS?
18:40:20 <ebering> the visible shafts work out of los, but intelligent monsters avoid them
18:40:37 <ebering> (maybe on a roll)
18:40:56 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.23-a0-516-g0f8c245 (34)
18:46:26 <ebering> other big stuff that's going on that your input is welcome on:
18:46:49 <ebering> gammafunk's doing a lab rework: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/wiki/Labyrinth-Rework
18:47:14 <ebering> we've been looking at unrands: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/wiki/Unrand-Review
18:47:46 <ebering> rnrnem: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/916
18:48:41 <Lasty> oo, nice, I'd love to weigh in
18:48:45 <Lasty> thanks for sharing those links!
19:08:19 <ebering> %git Reveal
19:08:19 <Cheibriados> Could not find commit Reveal (git returned 128)
19:08:26 <ebering> %git :/Reveal
19:08:26 <Cheibriados> 07ebering02 * 0.23-a0-495-ged22641: Reveal all traps 10(5 months ago, 27 files, 64+ 221-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ed226419d297
19:10:32 <ebering> !kw newtraps vlong>=0.23-a0-495
19:10:34 <Sequell> Defined keyword: newtraps => vlong>=0.23-a0-495
19:12:53 <twelwe> trap channge on crawl.akrasiac.org yet?
19:12:57 <twelwe> ebering
19:13:19 <ebering> yes
19:13:40 <twelwe> okay time to kill off another formicid
19:16:24 <twelwe> gonna laugh so hard when i dig into an explore trap
19:16:39 <twelwe> please tell me thats 100% possible
19:17:12 <twelwe> if i can dig AND shaft myself in one turn, then formicid is finally a complete species
19:17:26 <ebering> that's not
19:17:45 <ebering> only tiles that grant explore piety count for trap rolls
19:17:53 <twelwe> smart
19:18:09 <twelwe> maybe i can do that with serpent lash... don`t have the piety to check yet
19:24:02 <Lasty> !tell gammafunk re: your labs rework, I'm in favor of teleport restrictions. If you want to restrict it without special-casing the area, you could destroy the areas that the player doesn't visit, kinda like the collapsing volcano. In terms of name, I agree that Gauntlet suits the space better. That would also open up the Labyrinth name for some future better-fit area.
19:24:03 <Sequell> Maximum message length is 340 characters, but you had 354. Eschew verbosity, Gladys!
19:24:14 <Lasty> !tell gammafunk re: your labs rework, I'm in favor of teleport restrictions. If you want to restrict it without special-casing the area, you could destroy the areas that the player doesn't visit, kinda like the collapsing volcano.
19:24:15 <Sequell> Lasty: OK, I'll let gammafunk know.
19:24:24 <Lasty> !tell gammafunk In terms of name, I agree that Gauntlet suits the space better. That would also open up the Labyrinth name for some future better-fit area.
19:24:24 <Sequell> Lasty: OK, I'll let gammafunk know.
19:30:30 <alexjurkiewicz> you could KMAP the entire map as no_tele_into except the entry area
19:33:49 <Lasty> yeah
19:34:09 <Lasty> I suppose all of that leaves it possible to peace out from a dangerous challenge via teleport
19:35:31 <Lasty> the more interesting approach may be to just flat disable teleports
19:37:56 <ebering> gf and I talked about this last night
19:38:06 <ebering> I was of the opinion that teleports should take you to the final boss chamber :P
19:38:13 <ebering> it's spoilery though
19:38:36 <Lasty> yeah, you'd have to warn that somehow
20:45:03 <twelwe> ok if you guys did it with walljump, you can do it with whirlwind. can we (a) whirlwind so i can use my acrobat amulet without attacking when escaping?
20:45:55 <twelwe> was trying to flee some fast monsters and it was annoying to lose the EV when whirlwind was hitting
20:58:38 <Lasty> The new Spriggan's Knife sounds pretty strong, but I like the uniqueness. Confusion is already a great spell, and this makes it significantly stronger. Sceptre of Torment sounds incredibly strong. The new Finisher effect is one people have said encourages repeated fight resets -- do you think that's a concern?
20:58:49 <Lasty> New Robe of Clouds -- aren't storm clouds very, very strong?
20:58:55 <Lasty> Or did that change?
21:03:45 <Lasty> For Morg, scarab on kill sounds like it encourages swapping for the kill, plus the scarab itself fights with the desire to finish monsters and get more scarabs. I like the bigger pain + harm angle. Perhaps something like attacking with Morg has a chance to cast Clutching Hands on the target on a short duration?
21:04:13 <Lasty> Actually I like this better: always casts Borg on attack for the full 3x3 area, but on a very short duration.
21:04:14 <minmay> robe of clouds makes the clouds around you
21:04:27 <minmay> suppose you had a version of ring of flames where the clouds did double damage - it would still be a pretty bad spell
21:04:35 <Lasty> ah, 3x3?
21:04:51 <Lasty> it'd be a bad L8 spell, maybe, but a pretty good free activation
21:05:18 <minmay> ring of flames is level 6 now and still terrible
21:06:28 <Lasty> There's a good chunk of the game where on-demand storm clouds around you would prevent melee monsters from walking up to you, right?
21:07:17 <ebering> at some point between when I touched monster cloud ai along time ago and now monsters irrational fear of stormclouds is gone, once they get tough enough to not get two-shot they enter
21:07:27 <Lasty> ah
21:07:39 <minmay> yeah but robe of clouds is an unrandart, so finding it during that part of the game is extraordinarily rare
21:09:04 <minmay> there's no shortage of unrandart weapons that make melee monsters trivial either
21:09:08 <Lasty> Skin of Zhor pitch: casts Ozo's when you take damage, still with the break-on-move effect. Alternately: has a chance to cast Ozo's Refridge or Metabolic Englaciation on taking damage.
21:09:11 <Lasty> fair point
21:09:23 <minmay> reverse acrobat
21:09:50 <twelwe> speaking of acrobat,
21:10:07 <minmay> re spriggan's knife the strongest way to use it is with summons not confusion, since distracting things is a lot easier than confusing them
21:11:09 <Lasty> minmay: good point
21:12:29 <Lasty> Salamander hide: adds sticky flame after damaging an enemy with melee? Reduces mana cost of fire spells?
21:12:59 <gammafunk> oh no! is that....L-Lasty???
21:13:00 <Sequell> gammafunk: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
21:13:25 <Lasty> gammafunk: I have returned, and as you know that signals the end of days.
21:13:50 * gammafunk opens the Grand Grimoire
21:15:46 <Lasty> I got nothin' for amulet of vitality :p
21:16:34 <gammafunk> how about skin of zhor?
21:17:02 <gammafunk> ooh, what about a unique unrand amulet of acrobat
21:17:08 <gammafunk> not sure what its effect could be
21:19:59 <Lasty> you could give it an active to jump over monsters, but I'm not sure that's good enough to be worth doing.
21:20:22 <Lasty> plus it adds to typical amulet swapping issues
21:20:36 <Lasty> gammafunk: re: Skin of Zhor, I posted a pitch above
21:23:18 <twelwe> DCSS community resurgance inc
21:23:37 <gammafunk> oh
21:36:26 <alexjurkiewicz> ring of vitality: convert AC & EV into bonus hp (probably with some sort of multiplier)
21:56:55 <Lasty> WHOA
21:56:59 <Lasty> oops, wrong channel
21:57:00 <Lasty> sorry
22:07:57 -!- THE_GIAGGOSTUONO is now known as eb
22:14:12 <ebering> I kind of like the bvc morg idea
22:14:21 <ebering> well, I'll add it to the list anyway
22:16:24 <gammafunk> bvc morg?
22:17:10 <ebering> Lasty suggested that morg could be bvc on hit
22:17:14 <ebering> but very short duration
22:18:47 <gammafunk> yeah, the trick with low-damage unrands that cast spells is that it's good if they're better than just casting the spell yourself
22:19:32 <gammafunk> it probably works better with spells that do their damage in a single hit, too
22:21:43 <gammafunk> I'm leaning towards the Labyrinth->Gauntlet rename idea as a bunch of people like that name
22:24:46 <ebering> rip
22:27:27 <twelwe> rename bailey too
22:27:33 <twelwe> who even knows what that means
22:29:29 <floraline> hey if kids can learn new words playing pokemon, they can learn words playing crawl too
22:30:07 <twelwe> kids crawl, they don`t play it
22:30:53 <twelwe> i`m willing to learn alot of stuff, just not new words. got tons to keep in mind already
22:31:22 <amalloy> floraline: just name the new portal Cerulean?
22:31:38 <twelwe> my name? isn`t even a typo of twelve, it was a horribly mispelled `dozen`
22:32:14 <twelwe> why we need two words for 12 is beyond me
22:32:55 <geekosaur> ob http://www.dozenal.org/
22:33:41 <geekosaur> (also, oddly, I keep relating your nick to Twente)
22:33:49 <twelwe> lol they have a twitter
22:34:13 <twelwe> Daily Dozen: Thu 19 Dec 1201: Dozen has four even divisors: 2, 3, 4, 6. Twice as many as decimal (2, 5).
22:34:29 <twelwe> gonna take a month to wrap my mind around that one
22:35:29 <geekosaur> silly number theory tricks will get you nowhere :p
22:37:44 <twelwe> i proudly understand basic algebra + - / & x, but what does this even mean
22:37:50 <twelwe> Daily Dozen: Thu 23 Jul 1201: In dozenal, all powers of 0, 1, 4, and 9 end in the same figure; e.g., 9^n ends in 9.
22:38:35 <twelwe> someone is astounded by that enough to put in in fact form online!
22:46:59 <Lasty> gammafunk: you could set the BVC duration to the time of the weapon swing so that it stays active only as long as you keep swinging
22:50:49 <minmay> gammafunk: oh hey, with the dig charge reduction, I suggest removing trove_dig, since it's now incredibly bad for characters without shatter
22:53:02 <gammafunk> minmay: right, I should take a look at that
22:53:26 <gammafunk> I appreciate that bug report, so I'll PM you a nice tentacle image I've been saving
22:53:41 <gammafunk> oops, Lasty left
22:54:08 <gammafunk> !tell Lasty Yeah, you could do this; I guess you could just cast the spell at very high spellpower so the constriction damage is sufficiently high
22:54:09 <Sequell> gammafunk: OK, I'll let lasty know.
22:54:15 <ebering> guess it's not the end times after all
22:55:55 <gammafunk> We all know that the first return of Lasty was a mere warning heralding the imminent arrival of the End Times
22:56:05 <gammafunk> the next return of Lasty shall be the true beginning of the End Times
22:56:52 <geekosaur> no, only the lasty times >.>
22:58:14 <ebering> gammafunk: is there a reason you didn't have the subvaults take transporter linkages as arguments (ok I know you have to pass by editing globals but you know what I mean)
22:59:20 <gammafunk> ebering: meaning instead of setting just an integer, you set a string containing the name you want, or something?
22:59:30 <gammafunk> I'm not 100% clear on what you're saying, but there are two keys I need
22:59:35 <ebering> meaning, I have subvault A and subvault B
22:59:57 <gammafunk> one for the entry transporter (subvault sets the landing site) and on for the exit transporter (subvault creates the transporter)
22:59:58 <ebering> and I set a variable for A that's "transporter destination marker" and for B that's "transporter source marker"
23:00:04 <ebering> so that A gets linked to B directly
23:00:30 <gammafunk> oh, so that vault A transports into subvault B?
23:00:35 <gammafunk> s/vault A/subvault A/
23:00:36 <ebering> yea
23:00:42 <gammafunk> right, I don't want to link them for my maps
23:00:56 <gammafunk> well, at least for one of them I don't
23:01:05 <gammafunk> since you're presented with two options
23:01:11 <gammafunk> the branching map specifically
23:01:22 <gammafunk> also there's the issue of visibility with 9x9 maps
23:02:07 <gammafunk> I need space in between already so that you can see inside, although it's probably the case for the two maps aside from branching that there's enough space for the player to see in from the exposed sides
23:02:45 <gammafunk> part of the issue is how do you make subvaults that the player can always see all of when they're larger than los size and you can't assume too much about the features inside
23:02:53 <gammafunk> so my solution was to try to make at least three sides always visible from the main map
23:03:16 <gammafunk> but there are some other ways to address that, like more use of transparent stone inside the subvaults, for instance
23:03:57 <gammafunk> or even the rework to make them 7x7 with a little divet at the top of the map so that that internal area is 100% in-range of LOS from standing in that divet at the top
23:04:46 <gammafunk> but I guess the answer to your question is that I was always planning to have about 3 sides be visible to the player from outside the map and at least some maps needed to present a choice anyhow, so I had no desire to chain them
23:05:32 <gammafunk> I have a local branch making the subvaults 7x7 but some of them don't work too well at that size if you transport into the center; it's something I'm going to keep playing with though
23:05:54 <gammafunk> however I think you could fairly easilly make code to chain the subvaults together
23:06:38 <gammafunk> really the subvaults don't care at all what other map sets the entrance transporter and the exit transporter landing site
23:06:53 <gammafunk> the only thing they need is for whatever map is setting those, that they use the same key that the subvault is trying to use
23:08:03 <gammafunk> so if you want to chain vaults together, it shouldn't be too hard to make a transporter setup function to do this
23:08:16 <gammafunk> hrm, I think it's basically a case where you tell the main map setup function "don't set up any transporters yourself"
23:08:56 <gammafunk> so you would pass in nil strings for that main map setup function and it just wouldn't set up the transporters at all, leaving that entirely to the subvaults
23:09:55 <gammafunk> which would then do their usual transporter setup; the only thing extra they'd have to do is create the entry transporter in their setup function and have space for this in their subvault, I think
23:10:07 <gammafunk> anyhow if any of that is unclear or if you have further trouble, let me know
23:11:53 <ebering> That seems clear enough
23:13:44 <gammafunk> oh, I guess you'd have them only create on pair of transporter features; the entry transporter and entry transporter landing site
23:14:07 <gammafunk> and it would leave the exit transporter feature to the next vault
23:14:25 <ebering> the hexagon concept of iterated (go fight the boss/bail) choices seems like it will work better with adjacent hexagons without the closets
23:14:41 <ebering> there's orientation issues to make sure that the panels land correctly but that seems doable
23:14:46 <gammafunk> yeah, I think you just need to make sure your vaults are fully visible
23:15:00 <ebering> Yeah, I have a walkway that goes around the outside
23:15:06 <gammafunk> right, that should do it
23:15:30 <gammafunk> are they going to be like 9x9 bounding box size?
23:16:03 <gammafunk> I guess you probably have to have them at least that large if they're hexagons
23:16:15 <gammafunk> since if the bounding box was 7x7 the internal area would be too small
23:16:24 <ebering> currently 8x8, internally
23:16:39 <gammafunk> right, so larger than los
23:16:49 <gammafunk> yeah, walkway partly around sounds like the way to go
23:16:57 <gammafunk> if it's only from one side you have to be aware of that
23:17:12 <gammafunk> but as long as they can see towards the back it should be ok at least
23:17:19 <gammafunk> back meaning where the next transporter is
23:41:49 <ebering> from the walkway they might not be able to see the back
23:41:57 <ebering> but if they walk the walkway, once in a cell they can see the remainder
23:42:17 <ebering> of adjacent ones
23:42:18 <ebering> that is
23:45:39 <ebering> !lm . HoGl orb -tv:<3
23:45:44 <Sequell> 1. ebering, XL27 HOGl, T:62075 (milestone) requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org.
23:45:54 <ebering> rip tv
23:56:19 -!- isha is now known as werekitten
23:56:35 -!- werekitten is now known as isha