00:00:01 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.23-a0-489-g205b0b6 (34)
01:18:10 <amalloy> !vault cheibrodos_fertilizer
01:18:11 <Sequell> 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/float.des#L3806
01:18:40 <amalloy> opinions on making the part with all the fungus be no tele into? it seems pretty brutal to just get shafted there, with tons of monsters and no escape route
01:20:57 <gammafunk> hrm, well there are other instances like that in other vaults; you can always just get shafted into a bad spot in a room full of monsters
01:21:22 <gammafunk> you could condition it on depth
01:21:41 <gammafunk> I've added no_tele_into for early depth transporters for similar reasons
01:22:29 <gammafunk> but eventually the player should just have some means of escape, be it god powers, consumables
01:23:04 <amalloy> sure. alternatively, perhaps move it deeper than D:2
01:23:31 <amalloy> i guess there's already depth conditioning in there for monster difficulty
01:25:58 <gammafunk> yes, it's a cute early vault, but maybe you could no_tele_into the area before d:4 or d:7 with a KMASK (or is that KPROP)
01:26:41 <gammafunk> there are no d:1 shafts, right? so I guess the earliest you could be shafted into it is on d:3
01:27:08 <amalloy> https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/a2910m/for_the_first_time_ever_i_was_in_an_unwinnable/ was shafted in from D:1
01:28:03 <amalloy> not sure how
01:28:29 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.23-a0-489-g205b0b6 (34)
01:28:43 <gammafunk> hrm, maybe d:1 shafts are a thing
01:28:55 <geekosaur> they are
01:30:05 <ebering> d1 shafts have always been a thing
01:30:32 <gammafunk> I guess I would add the no_tele_into for the case they have there of d:2-d:4 since by d:5 you've started to pick up a good deal of stuff; it's subjective, of course
01:30:48 <gammafunk> you can get horrible shafts just based on random layout, landing in corridors and the like
01:31:38 <gammafunk> always try to avoid using it save for teleport closets except in the most extreme cases, which this vault would be in the very earliest of levels
01:31:53 <gammafunk> but it's a bit awkard to condition it, since you can go d:2 -> d:5
01:32:17 <gammafunk> !vault gammafunk_steamed_eel
01:32:18 <Sequell> 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/float.des#L4314
01:32:36 <gammafunk> ah, looks like I just added no_tele_into period
01:32:44 <gammafunk> that's probably the most sensible thing overall
01:42:34 <amalloy> yeah, seems reasonable
01:44:07 <Cheibriados> 03amalloy02 {GitHub} 07* 0.23-a0-490-ge7ea69a: Make cheibrodos_fertilizer no_tele_into 10(12 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e7ea69ae4f5d
01:47:10 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-490-ge7ea69ae4f (34)
01:51:16 <ebering> amalloy: if you're still around, the csdc pin is probably stale at this point and can go
01:51:36 <ebering> Thanks for your help with the pins and all that during the run!
01:52:44 <amalloy> ebering: done. thanks for running it
01:53:53 <amalloy> speaking of updating pins, cjr is dead now, right? maybe i should remove the pin about cjr and pin that guy's post about cko
01:54:19 <ebering> there's a cdo announcement of cko you could submit a link to
01:54:57 <amalloy> ah
01:56:40 <amalloy> ha, ha. thanks reddit. i can't submit that link because someone already has
01:57:08 <amalloy> no, i guess it was just warning me
01:59:21 <gammafunk> wonder when Zibudo will finally take cjr totally offline
01:59:32 <gammafunk> it's still building crawl versions
01:59:39 <gammafunk> oh and playble probably via console
01:59:41 <gammafunk> which isn't great
01:59:52 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.23-a0-489-g205b0b6
02:06:54 <ebering> b
02:10:50 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/916 (8 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/916
02:10:50 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/916 * 0.23-a0-490-g24d6a68: Remove deck rarity types 10(31 hours ago, 13 files, 108+ 329-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/24d6a68606b4
02:10:50 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/916 * 0.23-a0-491-gd27dfb2: Remove decks as items 10(25 hours ago, 30 files, 80+ 1724-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d27dfb21380c
02:10:50 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/916 * 0.23-a0-492-gc88c8b0: Abstract decks to a player property 10(14 hours ago, 3 files, 61+ 19-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c88c8b0bf7e3
02:10:50 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/916 * 0.23-a0-493-g58a1c1d: A deck choosing menu 10(13 hours ago, 5 files, 161+ 82-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/58a1c1d9930f
02:10:50 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/916 * 0.23-a0-494-g1804fa0: New Nemelex Draw One ability 10(12 hours ago, 6 files, 58+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1804fa084201
02:10:50 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/916 * 0.23-a0-495-ge8b5b97: New Nemelex Deal Four ability 10(7 hours ago, 2 files, 36+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e8b5b97de773
02:10:50 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/916 * 0.23-a0-496-g6631f69: New Nemelex Triple Draw ability 10(4 hours ago, 3 files, 87+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6631f694a185
02:10:50 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/916 * 0.23-a0-497-g4908e18: New Nemelex Stack five 10(3 hours ago, 5 files, 141+ 25-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4908e18233eb
02:10:53 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.23-a0-490-ge7ea69ae4f (34)
02:15:48 <ebering> net diffstat for that PR ++567 --2,022
02:17:09 <amalloy> RIP the god of inventory management
02:22:17 <gammafunk> ebering: looking at that card power formula, seems to favor lots of power level 2 cards
02:22:21 <gammafunk> ??*
02:22:21 <Sequell> *[1/5]: * (glyph) is an orb: {Orb of Destruction} {Orb of Fire} {Lost Soul} {Battlesphere}.
02:22:24 <gammafunk> ??piety
02:22:24 <Sequell> piety[1/6]: With your current god, you have a piety number nominally from 1-200. If your piety reaches 0, you are excommunicated. piety[2] describes piety and penance. piety[3] describes piety growth in general. piety[4] describes piety growth for each god. piety[5] describes uses of piety.
02:22:31 <gammafunk> ??**
02:22:31 <Sequell> **[1/1]: 50-74 piety
02:22:36 <gammafunk> ??****
02:22:36 <Sequell> ****[1/1]: 100-119 piety
02:23:12 <gammafunk> say 269 power for 5 invo and 4*
02:23:51 <gammafunk> giving 56% chance for (formerly known as) legendary effect
02:24:30 <gammafunk> oh
02:24:32 <gammafunk> that's lowballing it
02:25:02 <gammafunk> it's actually 64%
02:25:47 <gammafunk> more like 77% if we go to 10 invo
02:26:08 <gammafunk> this is definitely a higher proportion of legendary power effects that a typical nem player would see
02:26:13 <gammafunk> in the current system
02:28:07 <gammafunk> nem is one of the strongest gods presently so we don't want to increase that power level by giving too many power 2 card effects; especially the summon effects are pretty nuts
02:30:50 <gammafunk> I'd have to look more carefully at the number and how you've matched the power formula; of course plain decks can upgrade to power 1 sometimes and likewise ornate decks upgrade to power 2 sometimes, but I definitely didn't get like 75% power 2 effects in my nem games as the game went on
02:31:24 <gammafunk> eventually it might have gotten that way back with the old evo system where I was training more and more evo; don't think I did extended nem games with the invo system
02:32:08 <gammafunk> by eventually I mean as you went into extended and kept training evo (or invo in later versions), since by then you can do whatever with xp
02:32:08 <gammafunk> !lg . nem urune=15
02:32:08 <Sequell> 1. gammafunk the Farming Talismancer (L27 OpTm of Nemelex Xobeh), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2012-12-28 02:43:15, with 8501657 points after 219610 turns and 2d+10:40:42.
02:32:09 <gammafunk> dang, only did that once
02:32:11 <gammafunk> my second win
02:32:15 <gammafunk> !lg . nem won s=char
02:32:16 <Sequell> 5 games for gammafunk (nem won): BaWn, GhAs, KoAr, KoHu, OpTm
02:33:10 <gammafunk> the stack 5 change is interesting, but I also fear for decks of escape
02:34:09 <gammafunk> those feel strongly like they're best used that way; triple draw might be enough though, and I guess if there's no deck of punishments...ah, no you kept that
03:00:21 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.23-a0-490-ge7ea69a
04:24:49 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
09:28:59 <ebering> !tell gammafunk The card power formula definitely needs work. That branch so far has been about the technical apparatus.
09:28:59 <Sequell> ebering: OK, I'll let gammafunk know.
09:33:27 <ebering> !tell gammafunk The patch also is effectively limiting the player to 3 decks plus a stacked deck. I'll think more about the formulas.
09:33:28 <Sequell> ebering: OK, I'll let gammafunk know.
09:39:38 <ebering> !tell gammafunk However the "Stack 5 is too good on escape rel other decks": it already is.
09:39:39 <Sequell> ebering: OK, I'll let gammafunk know.
10:50:02 -!- jilles_ is now known as jilles
11:23:07 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/917 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/917
11:23:07 <Cheibriados> 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/917 * 0.23-a0-487-g29299af: Display the chance for needles to work in blowgun targeter (ebering) 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 59+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/29299afb521a
11:33:27 <ebering> awww yisss
11:49:38 <Cheibriados> 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/917 * 0.23-a0-487-g7f9515b: Display the chance for needles to work in blowgun targeter (ebering) 10(35 minutes ago, 1 file, 59+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7f9515b183d3
12:00:14 <Cheibriados> 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/917 * 0.23-a0-487-g24bce20: Display the chance for needles to work in blowgun targeter (ebering) 10(46 minutes ago, 1 file, 59+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/24bce2008943
12:05:14 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.23-a0-490-ge7ea69a (34)
12:10:50 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/872 * 0.23-a0-447-gae6565a: Re-order some player cleanup in floor_transition 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ae6565a9f2ef
12:10:50 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/872 * 0.23-a0-448-g0237693: Reduce the trap rate further 10(80 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0237693c6fe3
12:10:50 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/872 * 0.23-a0-449-g43104ed: Add a tile for dispersal traps 10(4 minutes ago, 3 files, 4+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/43104ede8ba2
13:23:50 <ebering> I think known-traps is close to ready to merge, will probably do that some time this week.
13:24:01 <ebering> I'd like more vaults to use the new dispersal trap but that can come in time.
13:25:07 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/872 * 0.23-a0-450-g6cd8287: Add dispersal traps to some vaults 10(37 minutes ago, 9 files, 34+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6cd8287a883f
13:37:29 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07* 0.23-a0-491-g3d1613b: Don't grant explore piety for certain terrain 10(2 days ago, 3 files, 19+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3d1613b9fa5f
13:37:29 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07* 0.23-a0-492-g0f366d8: Describe the restrictions on exploration piety 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0f366d8406db
13:37:39 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/915 * 0.23-a0-491-g13d0460: Don't grant explore piety for certain terrain 10(2 days ago, 3 files, 19+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/13d0460e1c88
13:37:39 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/915 * 0.23-a0-492-g4f65402: Describe the restrictions on exploration piety 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4f65402e7385
13:37:40 <Cheibriados> 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/917 * 0.23-a0-487-g4496fe6: Display the chance for needles to work in blowgun targeter (ebering) 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 57+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4496fe69b6e8
13:59:40 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-492-g0f366d8406 (34)
15:07:11 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
16:03:27 <switch__> o_O i've never seen this before, are duplicate entries on /scoring/ normal? http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/gammafunk.html
16:03:36 <switch__> (i may have been stalking gamma's page a little yesterday)
16:08:33 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
16:09:06 <ebering> switch__: those are games from cjr, which owing to some data corruption issues at cjr got duplicated
16:11:29 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07* 0.23-a0-493-g70bc44f: Improve the pacification chance display (11775) 10(10 minutes ago, 2 files, 18+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/70bc44f8a005
16:19:31 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
16:20:14 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-493-g70bc44f8a0 (34)
16:24:39 <Cheibriados> 03NormalPerson702 {ebering} 07* 0.23-a0-494-g91793a9: Display the chance for needles to work in blowgun targeter (ebering) 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 57+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/91793a9df27a
16:32:20 <Kelbell> Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-494-g91793a9df2 (34)
17:00:05 <minmay> wazzup devs, just found an old-style stepdown
17:00:13 <minmay> !source mon-util.cc:2498
17:00:13 <Sequell> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc#L2498
17:07:00 <alexjurkiewicz> floraline: yeah i like that layout too -- can you share the code?
17:07:22 <floraline> you're referring to the game links?
17:07:30 <alexjurkiewicz> yeah the Play Now links
17:07:57 <floraline> i'll copy the whole section onto pastebin but the only relevant lines are the 'separator' items
17:09:11 <alexjurkiewicz> gotcha
17:11:06 <floraline> https://pastebin.com/4eZ6U1bJ cko config.py
17:11:10 <floraline> just the ordereddict
17:11:23 <floraline> the only parts that matter are the separator lines
17:11:25 <floraline> i just stuffed html into them
17:13:17 <floraline> the separators only go in front of links so you can't use any trailing html
17:14:47 <floraline> actually you reminded me that i need to get my dgl config into git
17:15:09 -!- THE_GIAGGOSTUONO is now known as eb
17:15:31 <floraline> oh i turned off the tutorials too but i haven't restarted webtiles so it's not showing up
17:15:51 <floraline> i think only the latest stable version should have a tutorial on it, if anyone is going to play a tutorial it should be that version
17:18:54 <alexjurkiewicz> ha interesting. don't think i can copy that to webtiles changes sadly
17:19:07 <floraline> is there no separator element?
17:19:09 <alexjurkiewicz> but it's a great idea so I'll try and do a second rate reimplementation sometime
17:19:12 <alexjurkiewicz> not afaik
17:19:19 <floraline> you should be able to add it without too much work
17:19:29 <floraline> assume changes is not too different...
17:19:32 <floraline> assuming*
17:21:38 <alexjurkiewicz> might just hack it by editing the react frontend once I get some time
17:22:38 <floraline> hmm it actually looks a lot more different than i expected
17:24:17 <alexjurkiewicz> yep the config file format specifically was completely rewritten
17:24:29 <alexjurkiewicz> and so was most of hte frontend. The two things relevant :D
17:55:50 <floraline> how much does it bother players to be forced to transfer trunk saves?
17:59:45 <alexjurkiewicz> floraline: nobody has once complained to me in the life of CPO
18:00:02 <floraline> oh, well that's good
18:00:28 <floraline> i'm considering setting a limit to the number of trunk binaries i keep around
18:00:35 <floraline> anyone still using an old one would have to be automatically transferred forward
18:00:55 <alexjurkiewicz> if that's for space reasons, you can also shrink old trunk binaries to about 5mb instead
18:01:08 <alexjurkiewicz> strip crawl && upx crawl
18:01:59 <floraline> why is that possible
18:02:23 <floraline> i'll have to check out those tools thanks for the tip
18:02:42 <floraline> although i would still want to set up this script just for a sanity check, i don't need hundreds of these things lying around
18:02:44 <|amethyst> strip removes debugging information, which is quite extensive
18:03:27 <alexjurkiewicz> strip goes from 200 -> 10mb, upx will halve that
18:04:08 <floraline> that's a surprising amount of space
18:04:16 <floraline> i'll definitely do that then
18:04:29 <jilles> upx is a loss in RAM when actually executing those binaries often, though
18:11:25 <geekosaur> floraline, you might think about debugging infromation for expanded templates
18:12:27 <floraline> geekosaur: i don't understand what you mean
18:13:26 <geekosaur> C++ stdlib uses templates heavily internally. every time one is instantiated, you get a new copy of all its symbols as instantiated for the types
18:14:55 <geekosaur> quadratic expansion in symbols, and debug symbols which are much larger to begin with, every time one is expanded for some set of types. it's huge
18:16:04 <alexjurkiewicz> I think this is an explanation for why the debug builds are huge?
18:16:36 <geekosaur> partly. but even witout debug symbols, just the ones sued for normal linking likewise are quadratic
18:16:37 <alexjurkiewicz> lot of assumed knowledge there
18:18:41 <geekosaur> youdon't normally see thsi unless you make the wrongmistake and the resulting compiler error is sevral pages long from all te template expansions going on in the background
18:19:35 <geekosaur> btu as far as symbol table is concerned, for C++ it's often bigger than the object code
18:21:50 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-494-g91793a9df2 (34)
18:26:39 <floraline> that's all a bit beyond my pay grade
18:27:03 <floraline> i'm happy to just throw strip at the problem
18:35:29 <floraline> i think i'm going to have to upgrade my vm to the next tier
18:36:27 <gammafunk> ebering: yeah, stack 5 already feels like the best way to use escape, but with the new branch you can only have one stacked deck, so it makes the problem "worse" in that it can create the situation where there's really  one way to use stack 5
18:37:05 <gammafunk> I'm not sure what to do about stack 5 with the new system in general
18:38:26 <gammafunk> it's the ability that most depended on decks being individual items, so maybe it just won't work with the new(newnew) nemelex
18:49:08 <ebering> yeah, it could just go. I do like the variance control that having a known card at the ready provides
18:52:51 <alexjurkiewicz> 'pull card' - pull the top card from a deck of your choice. The card will be revealed and you can play it at a later date
18:53:06 <alexjurkiewicz> costs (significant) piety to pull a card but free to invoke it
18:54:06 <alexjurkiewicz> if you pull another card before playing the currently pulled one, the previous card is discarded
18:54:22 <alexjurkiewicz> some flavour about ace up your sleeve
19:13:03 <ebering> gammafunk: (et. al) I've updated https://github.com/crawl/crawl/wiki/Goldify-Nemelex-Decks with some charts and graphs analysing a slightly saner card level distribution (the numbers I have in the PR are too high)
19:14:05 <gammafunk> ebering: cool, but for some reason I can't click on those images to see legible versions in chrome
19:14:12 <gammafunk> did you just embed them as scaled images?
19:14:54 <ebering> thats github markdown renderning automagic, one sec I'll make em clicky
19:17:21 <alexjurkiewicz> why did you choose to have a single ability rather than three? My first impression is it will make the UI more complex because you can't have help for each deck individually
19:18:55 <ebering> right now you can reach help for individual decks in the deck chooser
19:19:01 <ebering> it's a bit inelegant
19:24:43 <gammafunk> I think two keys is not going to feel as great; one thing I used to do for convenience of using a bunch of cards is just wield a deck
19:24:46 <gammafunk> and hit v
19:25:04 <gammafunk> that's perhaps less common since the benefit of freeing up inventory isn't there
19:25:28 <gammafunk> but three keypresses to use an ability seems a bit much; the first thing I'd probably do is make a macro
19:26:33 <gammafunk> obviously for rarely used abilities that's less of a concern, but drawing a single card is akin to casting a spell and will be fairly common thing to do
19:26:58 <gammafunk> can always leave in the current system and see what people say, but I'm personally in favor of fewer keypresses
19:27:23 <gammafunk> can't deck help just be in the help description of the ability?
19:27:34 <ebering> yeah, this was a bit easier to prototype, in that the deck chooser was needed for the other abilities
19:28:36 <gammafunk> The graphs of the new percentages (without the 150) look pretty good, but one thing you say is "Based on generation and old card power rates, this results in the following differences in rates of availability of cards of powers zero one and two as functions of piety and invocations."
19:29:02 <gammafunk> that's considering how frequently plain/ornage/legendary decks were gifted?
19:29:05 <ebering> yes
19:29:26 <ebering> it's a weighted average of the rates for a given power for each rarity
19:29:41 <ebering> erm. that's hard to parse
19:30:10 <ebering> it's a weighted average over deck rarities of the card level rate for that rarity
19:31:05 <alexjurkiewicz> i wonder if card power as a concept is a good one. Maybe it should be phased out over time
19:31:30 <alexjurkiewicz> with this rework removing rarities, and card power thresholds being sort of invisible anyway
19:31:48 <gammafunk> I think those are best referred to as "card levels"
19:31:54 <gammafunk> since card power is actually its own thing
19:32:02 <gammafunk> (also based on invocations and piety)
19:33:41 <gammafunk> the cards are sort of strongly designed around the concept of card level since the effects across different levels can be rather different
19:34:08 <gammafunk> it maybe be possible to try to scale them more naturally and just use card power, but the idea with card level is to make it feel like higher variance
19:34:48 <gammafunk> ebering: So those graphs show, for a fixed invo/piety, e.g. the percent of card level 0 effects you got from plain and ornate decks out of all card effects under the old system with the percent of level 0 effects you get under the new system
19:37:40 <minmay> could go the other way around and have just the three card levels and no card power
19:37:50 <gammafunk> true
19:38:24 <gammafunk> not sure how invocations skill would fit into that
19:39:17 <gammafunk> oh I guess just the chance to get the higher power level
19:39:25 <gammafunk> and that's it (aside from the ability fail rates)
19:39:34 <gammafunk> I suppose it'd essentially be doing the same thing
19:43:47 <ebering> gammafunk: those graphs show for a fixed invo/piety the percent of of level zero effects under the new system *minus* the percent you got averaged over all types of old deck
19:44:28 <gammafunk> yeah I forgot to say "minus"
19:44:40 <gammafunk> but I wanted to be clear on what the percentages themselves actually were
19:44:45 <ebering> yes
19:45:32 <gammafunk> sounds like the new formula is fairly reasonable then, only slight bias towards more level 1 effects away from level 0
19:54:43 <ebering> what are your thoughts on merging known-traps some time this week? I think I've got the trap rate in a pretty good place now
19:56:18 <gammafunk> ebering: I haven't looked at it too closely, since been involved with other crawl things myself; let me try to do some play-testing today and get back to you tomorrow sometime
19:56:49 <ebering> cool
19:57:20 <gammafunk> but I assume we're agreed that operation steal-pizza-tornado-branch should proceed?
19:57:39 <ebering> yep we should merge it as soon as possible to get it out in time for christmas
19:58:05 <twelwe> this seems lime a trap, im out of here
19:58:24 <gammafunk> how did he know that we had limes at our command?
20:02:13 <twelwe> was there anything serious going on here before or just targetted speech?
20:02:39 <ebering> we were talking about the known-traps branch and merging it into mainline soon
20:02:49 <ebering> since it seems to be in a pretty good place after some playtesting
20:02:59 <ebering> you can try it out as an experimental on cko
20:04:16 <twelwe> merge my idea to make `p` do `ctrl-x`
20:04:34 <twelwe> i have p rebound to \{24} its so cool
20:13:13 <Cheibriados> 03ebering02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/872 * 0.23-a0-451-g642b27e: Flip the dispersal trap tile (CanOfWorms) 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/642b27e9efd6
20:42:32 <switch__> i have it rebound to attack-without-moving
20:42:47 <switch__> since you can't do it normally in chrome
20:43:34 <switch__> whatever \{-233} is. shift+tab i think
20:55:47 <switch__> ebering: for the nemelex rework, did you consider some way of retaining the current power-related decision scheme? e.g. a more direct conversion of normal/ornate/legendary decks, just without the inventory management
20:55:58 <switch__> or is the rework's current state preferred
21:07:56 <floraline> i never knew there were so many people playing the tutorial
21:08:26 <alexjurkiewicz> there usually aren't! maybe because your server is new?
21:08:47 <alexjurkiewicz> server is looking busy. how is it going?
21:10:03 <floraline> well there are a lot more people using it than i expected
21:11:41 <floraline> i think performance is OK but if too many more people start using it i'll have to upgrade again
21:13:44 <alexjurkiewicz> it's probably a new server spike
21:14:58 <floraline> i think it suffers from having to share CPU with other hosts
21:15:11 <floraline> if i had to do it again i would have chosen a dedicated CPU from the start
21:28:50 <twelwe> no reason to chop up a kobold, you say? i`ll still do it
21:33:27 <alexjurkiewicz> depending on the provider you're hosting with, you should be able to measure how much CPU is lost by checking the steal% CPU meter
21:34:12 <alexjurkiewicz> hm, digitalocean, that should work
21:35:15 <alexjurkiewicz> reference for steal% https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-monitor-cpu-use-on-digitalocean-droplets#top
22:05:25 <floraline> alexjurkiewicz: thanks for that, i wasn't aware of that metric
22:11:53 <twelwe> why yall gotta keep swords so rare early game
22:12:36 <twelwe> is enemy riposte that dangerous
22:20:03 <geekosaur> I think a long sword at low skill is a noob trap?
22:22:21 <geekosaur> that said, it used to be that you couldn't start with long sword skill, so some rebalancing might be in order at this point
22:24:25 <geekosaur> (since then, cross-training has been reworked and falchion is a possible starting weapon)
22:46:48 <Reeces> enemies don't riposte twelwe
22:47:54 <twelwe> ownage
22:52:01 <twelwe> too hard to code probably
22:57:05 <alexjurkiewicz> geekosaur: fi and gl start with long blade
22:57:12 <geekosaur> now, yes
22:58:16 <geekosaur> used to be there was no way to start with a long blade, and fi and gl started with short swords
22:58:25 <twelwe> i don`t remember them not, been playing since 0.3
22:59:06 <geekosaur> there were some arguments in here when falchions were made an option.
22:59:32 <geekosaur> coem to think fo it, I think that change *led* to riposte being added
22:59:48 <twelwe> cant tell the starting weapon but my frst win ever was .10 mdfi with long blades who hit LB5 very early on http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/twelwe/morgue-twelwe-20111016-055738.txt
22:59:54 <geekosaur> to differentiate it from short swords more
22:59:56 <twelwe> and ended with long blades
23:00:07 <geekosaur> er, short blades
23:02:22 <twelwe> didn`t know shucks about weapons back then, and i only now use long blades with formicids and wu jian for riposte synergy. i really dont remember ever not being able to start a fighter with LB
23:03:25 <switch__> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5fcad2d60d984cdb17cd1c40a236d4c664f50f7d
23:03:58 <twelwe> think i created the twelwe account in 2012
23:04:36 <twelwe> nope, 2011
23:05:04 <twelwe> that win was 8 months after that commit
23:05:46 <switch__> what were the arguments?
23:06:31 <twelwe> no argument, just determining time since LB was a starting choice
23:06:45 <twelwe> i remember it always being that way because it has been since ive played, but it hasnt
23:06:53 <twelwe> *always been that way
23:07:17 <switch__> i was responding to geekosaur
23:07:24 <twelwe> ahh
23:08:00 <geekosaur> yep, that's what I was recalling
23:08:52 <geekosaur> tu tbh I can;'t recall if riposte was because of or caused this change
23:09:14 <geekosaur> *but tbh
23:09:20 <twelwe> riposte was after cleave if i remember correctly
23:09:37 <ebering> Riposte was much later
23:10:11 <ebering> %git 4dea737
23:10:11 <Cheibriados> 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.19-a0-818-g4dea737: Long blade ability: Riposte 10(2 years, 5 months ago, 4 files, 65+ 33-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4dea7376dac6
23:10:16 <ebering> 2016!
23:10:23 <twelwe> thanks PF
23:10:41 <twelwe> because of him, i can dig, lunge, stab, whirlwind, and riposte in one turn
23:10:47 <geekosaur> switch__, discussion about balance withlongblades and whether even falchons were too strong (I think they may have been nerfed)
23:11:05 <geekosaur> as early weapons
23:11:18 <twelwe> FO^Jian^LB ownage
23:11:27 <switch__> sounds interesting
23:11:37 <switch__> sucks there are no logs
23:11:57 <geekosaur> /topic?
23:13:29 <geekosaur> also the weapon classes have been rebalanced a couple times since then
23:14:07 <geekosaur> at various historical times, axes, m&f, and lbl were "best" classes
23:14:14 <geekosaur> these days they're reasonably balanced
23:14:51 <geekosaur> (which is part of why riposte was added, to bring lbl up to par)
23:16:40 <geekosaur> (and sbl brought reasonably up to par by extending stabbing to the whole class instead of just daggers, iirc)
23:35:12 <twelwe> back then, merfolk got trident instead of spear!
23:35:18 <twelwe> flavor town
23:37:49 <geekosaur> fwiw the oldest morgue I'vebeen able to find in my logs was for a 4.0 beta
23:37:51 <geekosaur> er, in my backup logs
23:38:02 <ebering> twelwe: excuse me this game is australian it's flavour towne
23:38:37 <geekosaur> but back then morgues weren't timestamped so I have no idea how many games prior to that one
23:47:51 <alexjurkiewicz> yeah well i remember crawl 0.15 so you should respect me because of this too
23:49:33 <twelwe> opening respect log... you are already included for.... unpronouncability. major fear of mine.
23:50:13 <alexjurkiewicz> et tu twelwe
23:50:17 <ebering> %git e3cf528e6
23:50:17 <Cheibriados> 07ebering02 {PleasingFungus} * 0.16-a0-2148-ge3cf528: Allow ctrl-f for "runed door" 10(4 years, 1 month ago, 3 files, 5+ 35-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e3cf528e6f3c
23:50:29 <ebering> hm I thought I'd committed to 0.15
23:50:32 <ebering> guess not