00:17:05 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.23-a0-344-ge122d05 (34)
00:35:29 <travis-ci> The build passed. (panlord-info - b064aab #10425 : advil): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/443505385
02:43:43 <minmay> staff of olgreb's inscription should be {rPois∞} instead of {rPois}
02:50:49 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.23-a0-344-ge122d05
06:44:42 <Cheibriados> Wooden door in the transparent wall section also shows as transparent 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11719 by hayenne
08:15:02 <TAS_2012v> wizmode command &| (create all unrandarts) in 0.22.1 creates the boots of the spider ("the +3 pair of boots of the spider {obsolete, Stlth+}")
08:15:48 <TAS_2012v> perhaps it is working as intended?
11:43:31 <ebering> working as intended. old unrands never generate but still have placeholders for save compatibility
12:12:11 <Cheibriados> Attack delay capped at 0.2 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11720 by Le_Nerd
12:23:12 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[panlord-info] * 0.23-a0-342-g6586c9b: Various code cleanups for ghost_demon brands 10(2 minutes ago, 9 files, 71+ 50-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6586c9b6ac4f
12:24:28 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[panlord-info] * 0.23-a0-342-gde846c3: Various code cleanups for ghost_demon brands 10(3 minutes ago, 9 files, 71+ 50-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/de846c36327d
12:38:39 <travis-ci> The build has errored. (panlord-info - 6586c9b #10426 : advil): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/443780355
12:42:51 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
12:56:34 <Henzell> snelelg (L19 TrMo) Crash caused by signal #15: Terminated (Vaults:3)
12:56:35 <Henzell> Tedek (L8 GrEE) Crash caused by signal #15: Terminated (D:7)
12:57:22 <Henzell> alotofdavid (L2 HOMo) Crash caused by signal #15: Terminated (D:1)
13:36:20 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
13:48:42 <Henzell> sophia (L15 GrFi) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1978 failed. (Zot (ZotDef))
13:58:49 <advil> !crashlog
13:58:51 <Sequell> 20323. alotofdavid, XL2 HOMo, T:236 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/alotofdavid/crash-alotofdavid-20181019-165721.txt
13:58:57 <advil> oh zotdef
14:30:04 <ebering> advil: or someone else with reddit powers, could you update the csdc pin?
14:33:11 <gammafunk> ebering: updated
14:33:33 <ebering> thanks!
15:29:14 <Cheibriados> Smoke seeps through closed door of the vault forever after the door has been opened once 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11721 by hayenne
15:31:07 <hayenne> I reported an issue with endless gloom generation on Sprint 3 here, someone hotfixed it. Seems rather similar
15:34:11 <switch__> i'm having a lot of trouble getting crawl to compile inside MSVC
15:34:29 <switch__> most of the problem seems to stem from the contribs folder not compiling properly
15:35:02 <switch__> the projects are unmaintained from what i can tell, but it doesn't look like it would be a lot of work to someone that was familiar
15:35:05 <switch__> i'm just... really not
15:35:16 <switch__> could someone help me out?
15:36:37 <amalloy> switch__: have you read what INSTALL.txt has to say about MSVC?
15:36:45 <switch__> yes
15:37:49 <switch__> the version of MSVC specified in intall.txt doesn't work, much for the same reason it doesn't work for other versions
15:38:05 <switch__> the files aren't referenced properly
15:38:30 <switch__> it's just extremely difficult for me to fix on my own because 1. i'm a little out of my depth 2. i'm entirely unfamiliar
15:38:32 <advil> probably a bunch of the contribs have been updated since last time anyone had msvc working
15:38:58 <switch__> that doesn't even seem to be true, though
15:39:10 <switch__> i guess it has been *6 years*
15:40:04 <switch__> compared to only 2 years for the contribs
15:40:04 <switch__> yeah ._. i guess so
15:40:04 <advil> well, I know for sure that sdl has been updated recently
15:40:12 <advil> and it was already a headache for build processes that we actively maintain
15:40:14 <amalloy> switch__: incidentally why are you using MSVC? as INSTALL.txt notes, MSYS2 is the recommended windows build option, and of course you can download a binary instead of building if you don't plan to make edits yourself
15:40:30 <switch__> i want to use visual studio's debugger
15:42:22 <switch__> aidanh: i saw you pushed a change to the MSVC project file a few months back. do you have a working setup?
15:43:14 <advil> we try to keep that file up to date with the main project if new files are added or removed, but no one is using msvc
15:43:21 <advil> most of the active devteam is linux or os x
15:43:30 <amalloy> that's a good reason. i don't think we can offer much help, though - MSVC is not a supported build process, which basically means we can't guarantee it will work and won't have many useful suggestions if it doesn't
15:43:57 <advil> can you pastebin some errors?
15:44:05 <switch__> i can read installation documents, i already read that.
15:44:06 <advil> like amalloy says though I don't know if we'll have much insight
15:44:15 <switch__> the errors are missing files
15:44:16 <switch__> lol
15:44:24 <advil> ok, but what missing files?
15:45:05 <Cheibriados> LRD would not auto target valid target (iron grate with adjacent enemy in LOS) 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11722 by hayenne
15:45:21 <switch__> the project for crawl itself is looking for compiled library files. the project that makes these library files is missing quite a lot
15:45:35 <switch__> zlib is asking for gzio.c, which doesn't exist
15:45:42 <switch__> but exists in an older version from what i can see
15:46:01 <switch__> but talking about it like this would take forever
15:46:16 <advil> that's why I suggested pastebinning some errors
15:47:31 <advil> for gzio.c in particular, you'll probably just need to remove it from the project, corresponding to this commit: https://github.com/crawl/crawl-zlib/commit/d936d4cd671d973c215675e685ece79c9c3941db
15:49:25 <advil> in general i think if it complains about missing files, the default thing to try is removing them from the project. To some extent you might be able to figure things like this out by looking at the commit history of the contrib repos (all under https://github.com/crawl), since the Makefiles are kept up to date
15:49:50 <switch__> https://i.imgur.com/un2Ij5Y.png
15:50:03 <advil> most of the contribs should be relatively simple to update like that, but crawl-sdl2 may not be very simple
15:52:08 <switch__> i worked through like 3k+ errors yesterday ._.
15:52:17 <switch__> i just can't get the contribs working
15:53:52 <switch__> (962 is the end of the file)
15:58:04 <hayenne> %>> bennu
15:58:04 <advil> that specific error looks like probably something changed in terms of the precompiled headers, but it's hard to say what
16:01:43 <advil> I guess my basic advice would be to consider using gdb instead of the visual studio debugger (or maybe it's possible to use it with something not compiled by it? that's true for the xcode debugger for example)
16:03:05 <switch__> that sounds a lot like giving up really early
16:03:12 <geekosaur> microsoft's debug information is completely different from gdb's
16:03:20 <geekosaur> and until fairlyr ecetly was undocumented
16:04:26 <switch__> i'm pretty confident someone with barely more experience than me could figure this out pretty easily
16:06:02 <switch__> i dunno what to do about this error
16:06:29 <switch__> i've spent maybe 8? hours doing this now and i'm a little on edge
16:06:29 <switch__> sorry if i was rude earlier
16:07:10 <advil> yes, my guess is that most individual error messages can probably be dealt with largely by trial and error + googling, but it's a lot of tedious work, and some issues may be pretty opaque (as it sounds like you've found)
16:08:45 <amalloy> imo we should just delete the msvc stuff, so people don't get the impression that it's supposed to work
16:09:21 <switch__> i want to write really mean things at amalloy
16:09:37 <amalloy> understandable
16:11:46 <switch__> the desire to write unhelpful/regressive comments confuses me
16:13:53 <amalloy> my opinion is that the state of the state of the source repo would be overall better if we didn't pretend MSVC might work. fewer contributors would try a doomed process and get frustrated by it. of course this doesn't feel helpful to you right at this moment, having just sunk 8 hours into it
16:14:24 <amalloy> but i can't help you with MSVC, and i could help future people who might try what you're doing
16:15:38 <switch__> it's extremely bizarre to me that your reaction to "he spent 8 hours and can't get it to work is" is "he shouldn't have tried"
16:16:07 <amalloy> "he shouldn't have tried" is different from "we shouldn't have made him think it was a good idea"
16:16:31 <amalloy> the readme made it look to you like this wouldn't be hard, and you made a reasonable decision based on that bad information
16:16:44 <switch__> the 3200 errors were pretty quick at delivering that idea, don't worry
16:17:02 <switch__> sure, but why not just fix it
16:17:02 <switch__> why is your default behavior obstruction
16:18:09 <amalloy> you acknowledged that you read "not supported", and keep asking for support. we stopped supporting it because we don't have the right context to support it, and because there is already a good alternative workflow for compiling on windows
16:19:02 <advil> well, past a certain point we just can't help much, because we don't have a way of supporting msvc
16:19:12 <advil> like, we literally do not have a way of fixing it ourselves
16:19:17 <switch__> ?
16:19:21 <switch__> you don't have a windows installation?
16:19:42 <advil> personally I have a VM, but no msvc
16:19:48 <amalloy> i certainly don't have one i could compile anything on
16:19:52 <advil> one other dev also uses a VM sometimes
16:19:53 <advil> that's it
16:20:24 <switch__> MSVC isn't exactly impossible to get
16:20:41 <advil> also, we are generally supporting a *lot* of things
16:21:09 <advil> it costs $500, no?
16:21:26 <switch__> i don't imagine a lot of people pay for theirs
16:21:31 <switch__> mine was free, legally
16:21:34 <advil> oh wow, is it now subscription based?
16:21:55 <switch__> but if it wasn't, i don't imagine the illegal option is that difficult
16:22:20 <switch__> anyway, the vast majority of new developers learn using MSVC
16:22:20 <switch__> at least from my experience
16:22:34 <switch__> i was under the impression that it would be something you would want to support
16:22:38 <amalloy> i think you are taking the wrong approach by saying "but you could do it, and you should do it". everyone who works on this project does it for free, from their free time, and we choose what we want to do
16:22:58 <amalloy> that's basically the final say. nobody wants to do this, and we've said we won't, so we won't
16:23:13 <switch__> that's strange, i didn't realize you speak for literally everyone
16:23:21 <amalloy> i don't. it's in INSTALL.txt already
16:24:05 <switch__> ...
16:24:10 <amalloy> it's what "unsupported" means
16:24:11 <switch__> along with the other out of date instructions, i'm sure
16:24:30 <switch__> you already said it. it's an open source project. what's supported is what someone decided to support
16:24:39 <switch__> please stop talking at me like you have any authority over the future of the project
16:24:45 <switch__> and like you speak for anyone but yourself
16:24:46 <switch__> holy shit
16:25:15 <advil> what on earth
16:25:20 <geekosaur> the last person who touched it is grt, iirc
16:25:34 <advil> amalloy and I are on the devteam, to at least some extent we do speak for the future (or at least current state) of the project
16:25:53 <geekosaur> ad, so you assert yiou're speaking for everyone? since you seem to think you're in a position to contradict a dev, therefore you must speak for all the other devs
16:26:00 <advil> we would definitely be happy to accept contributions that fix msvc support, but it's just not something we can do ourselves
16:26:39 <advil> and I more or less know the development environment of the currently active devs, so I've been trying to point out why that limits us
16:26:58 <hayenne> dude, you already apologized for your language, then you flare up again
16:27:54 <advil> and no, I'm not going to pirate software in order to do something I already don't have time to do
16:29:28 <switch__> sure, that's understandable. it just seems like something a project would want to support, if possible.
16:30:09 <advil> I mean, yes, it is on the list of things we would like to support if possible (at least for me), but that list has a lot of stuff on it
16:31:00 <advil> (for example, way, way higher than working on the msvc build for me would be porting our build system to cmake)
16:31:32 <amalloy> right. if god came down from heaven and handed us a working MSVC solution, we'd accept that PR, and that's better than deleting the MSVC stuff
16:31:57 <amalloy> but if we have to choose between no MSVC stuff at all, and MSVC stuff that wastes people's time because it doesn't work, i suggested the former
16:32:54 <switch__> it really doesn't seem like that difficult of an undertaking
16:33:51 <geekosaur> except it'd still have to be maintained. and it's only there at all from when Mu was working on it iirc. very rarely updated since they ran out of time
16:34:33 <switch__> i'd be willing to maintain it. it's why i'm trying to get it to work in the first place
16:37:54 <ebering> That would be appreciated; however, you've embarked on a difficult road that members of the devteam are unable to assist you with. I'll wager that with 8 hours of wrestling with it you're the expert on building crawl with MSVC in this room right now
16:43:11 <Cheibriados> Molten gargoyles are immune to LRD 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11723 by hayenne
17:01:28 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.23-a0-344-ge122d05 (34)
17:01:47 <Napkin_> one down
17:01:53 -!- Napkin_ is now known as Napkin
17:05:18 <advil> I think these MSVC installations are obsolete enough that they ought to be deleted, even if someone submits a patch to get it to work, they'd probably need to rewrite them entirely
17:06:21 <Napkin> puh, mingw builds are quite broken, huh?
17:06:37 <advil> pure mingw might be
17:06:39 <advil> MSYS2 should work
17:06:44 <advil> cross-compiling also should work
17:06:54 <advil> oh are you looking at the nightlies? !
17:07:11 <advil> we were theorizing that there might be a merge conflict that needs to be hand-corrected?
17:07:23 <advil> I think only you have access to see what's going wrong though
17:07:55 <advil> cross-compiling is actually tested in travis now, so it really should work
17:09:10 <Napkin> where did those dist_bones directories come from - blocked the merge.sh (git rebase)
17:09:30 <advil> they are new with 0.22.1
17:09:51 <Napkin> no, everyone that can login as crawl can see and fix
17:10:11 <Napkin> git clean -dfx got rid of them
17:10:26 <advil> hm, they should ideally not be deleted
17:10:57 <Napkin> well
17:10:58 <Napkin> ---
17:11:06 <Napkin> Merging local with remote branches:
17:11:06 <Napkin> -----------------------------------
17:11:06 <Napkin> local/master:
17:11:06 <Napkin> -------------
17:11:06 <Napkin> First, rewinding head to replay your work on top of it...
17:11:08 <advil> maybe make sure .gitignore is up to date?
17:11:08 <Napkin> error: The following untracked working tree files would be overwritten by checkout:
17:11:11 <Napkin> crawl-ref/source/dat/dist_bones/bones.store.Crypt
17:11:14 <Napkin> crawl-ref/source/dat/dist_bones/bones.store.D-10
17:11:16 <Napkin> crawl-ref/source/dat/dist_bones/bones.store.D-11
17:11:19 <Napkin> ...
17:11:21 <Napkin> ---
17:11:34 <advil> in 0.22.0 those files could be present but were not in git, installed in a different way, so they were in .gitignore
17:11:45 <advil> ah
17:11:48 <advil> overwriting is fine
17:11:49 <Napkin> must have been present one day
17:12:01 <Napkin> anyways, cleared, building now
17:12:09 <advil> what they are is seed bones files to ensure that there's always some ghosts to draw on when placing ghost vaults
17:12:22 <Napkin> the mingw cross builds on cdo are trunk/master only
17:13:26 <advil> right, this progression happened in trunk too
17:13:44 <advil> I tried a complicated non-git way of installing them and then we decided it was much simpler to just have them in version control
17:14:14 <Napkin> i see
17:16:38 <advil> I think |amethyst and/or gammafunk tried to look at the place where the cross-compiled version is built & didn't have the right permissions? it's possible they were looking in the wrong place though
17:17:32 <Napkin> they must have
17:17:40 <Napkin> in any case
17:17:47 <Napkin> cp: cannot stat ‘licence.txt’: No such file or directory
17:18:28 <advil> we moved crawl-ref/licence.txt to just LICENSE in the repo root, some scripts needed to be updated
17:18:41 <Napkin> agreed ;-)
17:19:22 <gammafunk> Napkin: yeah, I tried to look in the chroot to see the script but didn't have permission
17:21:02 <Napkin> what?
17:21:11 <Napkin> this all inside the crawl user's home
17:21:18 <Napkin> how did you look? :)
17:22:52 <advil> %git 5c1dd30fd6a7
17:22:52 <Cheibriados> 07advil02 * 0.23-a0-64-g5c1dd30: Try to fix build stuff with license (gammafunk) 10(2 months ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5c1dd30fd6a7
17:24:26 <Napkin> gammafunk: it's all in /home/services/crawl/source/mingw32/crawl/
17:24:55 <advil> if that cp error was from make, I think that Makefile change is the one that specifically fixed it (there were a few others, so it might not be the only one)
17:25:03 <Napkin> and all compiling is done as user crawl ($HOME is /home/services/crawl)
17:25:12 <Napkin> no, it wasn't
17:25:42 <gammafunk> Napkin: gotcha, thanks
17:25:42 <advil> ok...did you have your own scripts I guess?
17:25:53 <Napkin> it was from the local update.sh - which was previously "repairing" a few things missing
17:26:00 <advil> ahh
17:26:00 <Napkin> might be superfluid now
17:26:59 <Napkin> did you talk to dpeg about renaming british licence.txt to us license? ;-)
17:27:03 <advil> heh
17:27:14 <Napkin> don't tell him ;-)
17:27:33 <advil> haven't seen him around in ages
17:28:03 <Napkin> he's probably taking notes :D
17:28:08 <advil> I'm afraid I did it for the really dumb reason that github wants it to be spelled that way and won't recognize the file as a license otherwise
17:28:17 <advil> and wants it to be in the repo root
17:31:09 <Napkin> yeah, just realized that changed, too - next try
17:32:14 <Napkin> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.23-a0-344-ge122d05
17:32:37 <Napkin> could someone test that? accessible from the trunk page (hopefully still)
17:33:24 <advil> Napkin: thanks!! the trunk page (https://crawl.develz.org/trunk/) might need to be updated for 0.23 too
17:33:53 <Napkin> ok, added
17:34:02 <Napkin> *sigh* i'm a bit behind
17:34:13 <advil> download from crawl.develz.org/trunk/crawl-0.23-a0-344-ge122d05.zip is working at least
17:34:26 <Napkin> direct link: http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/crawl-0.23-a0-344-ge122d05.zip
17:34:38 <Napkin> ah, you got it already, good
17:35:35 <Napkin> tiles first
17:35:45 <advil> I'll test it in my vm
17:36:17 <advil> ugh my vm license is expired
17:36:25 <minmay> seems tgw_lugonu_bribe still thinks that TSO hates poison
17:36:34 <hayenne> the ongoing linux games are transferred to ge122d05
17:37:25 <Napkin> trunk games on cdo? they should, shouldn't they?
17:37:33 <Napkin> savegame version is the same
17:38:40 <hayenne> showing up as ge122d05 in ?V trunk
17:38:48 <Napkin> excellent
17:39:04 <advil> huh, windows chrome blocked the download as potential malware?
17:39:05 <Napkin> i'm considering no longer hosting stable versions
17:39:15 <Napkin> on cdo, that is
17:39:44 <Napkin> hosting it for almost 13 years and getting slower and slower to update every year...
17:40:08 <hayenne> I scummed the 0.19 still available on CDO for that elusive first DD win for the version was the last of having the wand of healing :D
17:40:09 <Napkin> would anyone complain about that?
17:40:19 <Napkin> hehehe
17:40:28 <hayenne> but I just won one (ironically on trunk) so no qualms
17:40:34 <Napkin> :)
17:41:11 <Napkin> tiles done, too: http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/crawl_tiles-0.23-a0-344-ge122d05.zip
17:42:55 <gammafunk> Napkin: it would mean CDO can be in the tournament, but I guess it's not really a problem otherwise
17:44:10 <Napkin> *could not be
17:44:12 <Napkin> true
17:44:48 <gammafunk> yeah, *can't be, sorry
17:44:49 <Napkin> aren't there anyways faster/better/more stable servers in europe or even germany already by now?
17:45:23 <gammafunk> definitely in europe, although I find CDO pretty fast; no idea about access for germany specifically
17:45:34 <gammafunk> I know people talk about lag on CXC and CUE
17:45:44 <gammafunk> but yeah I think if cdo were trunk-only it wouldn't be any huge problem
17:46:02 <gammafunk> ultimately whatever you think is best for the server
17:46:26 <gammafunk> the web page, wordpress, and forums are more important than a console-only server overall :)
17:46:59 <Napkin> heh
17:47:07 <Napkin> is the docuwiki still being used?
17:47:24 <gammafunk> it is a little, we've been moving stuff over to github wiki though
17:47:38 <Napkin> more comfy there?
17:47:38 <gammafunk> one think about doku is anyone can edit it, which github doesn't allow
17:47:44 <gammafunk> yeah, for dev stuff for sure
17:48:03 <gammafunk> but for outside contributors we've had a couple pages spring up recently
17:48:17 <gammafunk> we could try to move any relevant content over to github and just tell people to use their own wikis though
17:48:21 <gammafunk> if you wanted to take that offline
17:48:33 <gammafunk> definitely not critical to have doku wiki, but there's some content we should move at least
17:48:40 <gammafunk> or archive or something
17:48:45 <Napkin> nono, no need to take it offline, just asking
17:48:56 <Napkin> does github support proper export?
17:49:11 <gammafunk> not sure what you can do with github wiki import/export
17:49:28 <Napkin> one of the reasons we chose docuwiki in the past
17:50:24 <Napkin> i remember some docs being automatically created from docuwiki pages because of its file-based simplicity
17:50:59 <Napkin> or rather, _you_ devs chose
17:51:26 <advil> the wikis themselves are git repositories, so you can export it by cloning it
17:51:37 <advil> https://help.github.com/articles/adding-and-editing-wiki-pages-locally/
17:51:43 <Napkin> ah, makes sense, that's nice
17:52:06 <gammafunk> advil: can you import from a local repo and push that to update wiki?
17:52:11 <advil> yeah supposedly
17:52:13 <gammafunk> ah, guess you can
17:52:16 <advil> haven't tried it myself though
17:52:58 <Napkin> you might have to be quick though on busy wikis ;-)
17:55:40 <advil> ours is ... less busy than that
17:56:51 <Napkin> geez, mingw installer builds take for ever
17:56:57 <Napkin> need faster server
17:57:01 <hayenne> I sometimes find CDO laggy, but most of the times it's quite zippy. I grew quite attached to the server since I played most of the games over the last 10 years on it.
17:57:23 <hayenne> !lg . s=src
17:57:23 <Sequell> 1794 games for hayenne: 1396x cdo, 398x cao
17:57:23 <gammafunk> yeah there is some lag for me playing in US
17:57:23 <Napkin> hayenne :)
17:57:26 <gammafunk> !lg . won s=src
17:57:28 <Sequell> 99 games for gammafunk (won): 44x cszo, 32x cbro, 13x cjr, 8x cdo, cao, cxc
17:57:40 <gammafunk> but it's been nice otherwise
17:58:27 <Napkin> cdo hasn't been hosting many other games recently, should not be too laggy, apart from certain times when certain things are automatically extracted..
17:59:12 <Napkin> ok hayenne, i'll postponed that decision for next year then ;-)
17:59:17 <Napkin> *postpone
18:00:46 <gammafunk> advil: are you comfortable with the unix shell? It might be good to get one other dev access to CDO to update the website
18:00:55 <advil> yes
18:01:02 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.23-a0-344-ge122d05
18:01:16 <gammafunk> Currently I think only myself and neil have access, and I'm certainly around usually but neil is pretty busy
18:01:16 <Napkin> make windows package downloaded files, i think?
18:02:02 <Napkin> ah, maybe not.. could have been some file parser of nsi
18:02:22 <advil> there was a brief window where it downloaded those bones files, but that shouldn't be happening any more
18:02:28 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 {GitHub} 07* 0.23-a0-345-g28c3e8e: Update MSVC instructions to reflect current reality 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 43-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/28c3e8efcb62
18:02:40 <hayenne> who maintains mantis?
18:02:40 <Napkin> in any case, done too: http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/crawl_setup-0.23-a0-344-ge122d05.exe
18:02:49 <Napkin> @mantis: probably me and gammafunk?
18:03:05 <gammafunk> not sure I have special access for mantis
18:03:30 <gammafunk> It shows me a developer but I can't really change stuff
18:03:35 <hayenne> I am sorry to nag (posting it for the third time), but 0.23 is still listed as long-term development on mantis, while it has been the active dev branch for some time now
18:04:28 <gammafunk> yeah, I forget who has access to change this
18:04:57 <Napkin> thanks for repeating that, hayenne
18:05:09 <Napkin> i'm too lazy actually to read through the million messages
18:05:11 <Napkin> --
18:05:12 <Napkin> Found 2 files for signifier 'setup-0.23'.
18:05:12 <Napkin> Found 2 files for signifier 'non-tiles-0.23'.
18:05:14 <Napkin> Found 2 files for signifier 'tiles-0.23'.
18:05:17 <Napkin> --
18:05:23 <Napkin> trunk page should list the builds now, please verify
18:05:55 <gammafunk> Napkin: both trunk index and archive updated, thanks
18:06:22 <advil> just tested console in VM, it seems to work
18:07:57 <gammafunk> Napkin: would you be able to give advil access to that crawl login on CDO?
18:08:08 <Napkin> sure, 1s
18:08:33 <advil> tiles works as well as it ever does in virtualbox
18:08:54 <advil> thanks for updating these! there are a few people who use them a lot and will be really excited
18:09:25 <Napkin> geez, mantis is so slow?
18:10:47 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.23-a0-345-g28c3e8efcb (34)
18:11:16 <Napkin> alright, manits versioning fixed and set 0.23 development branch to default_fixed_in_version
18:11:47 <gammafunk> Napkin is a crawl world hero and champion
18:12:02 <Napkin> advil, did you ever pass to me the public part of your ssh key? otherwise please do
18:12:28 <Napkin> definitely not, gammafunk:
18:12:29 <Napkin> !lg . won s=src
18:12:30 <Sequell> 11 games for Napkin (won): 11x cdo
18:12:34 <Napkin> ;-)
18:12:45 <Napkin> anything else while i'm at it?
18:12:53 <Napkin> (apart from putting up 0.22 as stable)
18:13:13 <gammafunk> Napkin: ebering could use a wordpress account
18:13:13 <gammafunk> I think only you can create those
18:13:15 <gammafunk> he's a new dev
18:13:48 <gammafunk> advil: in case that ping didn't reach you, Napkin need's your public ssh key
18:13:53 <Napkin> ebering, are you in? pass me a email address that i can forward ebering at crawl.develz.org to? for your wordpress account
18:15:11 <Napkin> ok, i'll use his mantis address
18:15:24 <gammafunk> should be good, thanks
18:15:56 <Napkin> lots of spam lately? just "pruned" like... 50 accounts
18:16:10 <gammafunk> not a lot actually!
18:16:22 <gammafunk> we've had just a couple spam bots on tavern once every month or so?
18:16:28 <Napkin> it's "ebering" from mantis, right, gammafunk?
18:16:31 <gammafunk> yes
18:16:39 <Napkin> will make him dev there first
18:16:46 <gammafunk> oh, yep, haha
18:16:49 <gammafunk> thought we had done that already
18:17:56 <Napkin> gammafunk, made you admin in wordpress
18:18:06 <gammafunk> excellent, thanks
18:18:11 <Napkin> please, be very, very careful with installing updates
18:18:30 <Napkin> that wordpress has lots of local changes
18:18:30 <gammafunk> ok, I imagine I just shouldn't do that ever
18:19:03 <gammafunk> but being able to add accounts will be good when we add new devs
18:19:31 <gammafunk> we probably need to sit down and make a little "dev/admin wiki" with shared knowledge of some of this stuff
18:19:38 <gammafunk> by we I mean I
18:20:08 <Napkin> ebering added as editor
18:20:22 <Napkin> good idea
18:20:31 <Napkin> changes to mantis are also important on new release
18:21:06 <gammafunk> yeah, I know at least one dev has access to do that? Just not sure who
18:21:13 <gammafunk> that's another thing we could list in said wiki page
18:21:14 <advil> gammafunk: this (super incomplete, and possibly not accurate) gist might be a useful starting point: https://gist.github.com/rawlins/1f0bb0f52b1b8f11bfc8f553ead6196b
18:21:42 <gammafunk> oh, nice
18:21:59 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-345-g28c3e8efcb (34)
18:22:24 <advil> I just wanted to figure out what infrastructure there even was, and wrote down what I know, but then kind of forgot about the project
18:22:35 <gammafunk> yeah, that's good starting point
18:22:51 <gammafunk> the first entry is wrong in that it lists me as a CAO admin, but good starting point :)
18:23:00 <advil> didn't you have access to something on there?
18:23:07 <gammafunk> nope
18:23:20 <gammafunk> I do have a shell login to cbro, but no admin access there
18:23:27 <gammafunk> no access to CAO at all
18:24:19 <Napkin> please don't make me document ;-) but i'll tell you gladly
18:24:32 <Napkin> i've got enough of that at work
18:25:02 <gammafunk> heh, yeah this is something we devs should make, don't worry
18:25:16 <Napkin> mantis: go to "manage", "dcss" and add new version and adjust old ones accordingly
18:25:29 <Napkin> sorry:
18:25:37 <advil> ok, I now do have CDO access, thanks Napkin
18:25:38 <Napkin> mantis: go to "manage", "manage projects", "dcss" and add new version and adjust old ones accordingly
18:26:17 <Napkin> and mantis: go to "manage", "manage configuration" and replace default_fixed_in_version accordingly
18:26:22 <advil> and now I'm going to bike home while there's still a tiny bit of daylight, later
18:26:51 <gammafunk> Napkin: I don't see a "manage" link, where would this be?
18:27:08 <Napkin> mantis: do give admin to someone... ;-)
18:27:43 <gammafunk> I think maybe |amethyst is an admin...I know *one* of us is
18:28:00 <Napkin> now you will
18:28:08 <gammafunk> ah, thanks
18:28:14 <Napkin> you may want to change email settings
18:28:29 <Napkin> admins get lots... especially "new account created"
18:29:04 <Napkin> i think i modified mantis to be able to prevent those.. but not sure anymore
18:29:04 <Napkin> check user settings
18:29:19 <Napkin> and be aware, that there are multiple "projects" in mantis, when you do changes
18:29:37 <Napkin> thanks for participating, gammafunk :)
18:30:13 <Napkin> see you later, advil
18:30:51 <gammafunk> ok, looks good Napkin, thanks
18:31:15 <Napkin> it's not difficult, just needs some getting used to
18:31:40 <Napkin> replacing default_fixed_in_version needs attention
18:32:14 <Napkin> most do that wrong... "all users", "dcss", "default_fixed_in_version", "string", "0.x development version"
18:32:40 <Napkin> most admins changed it for themselves only ;-)
18:33:13 <gammafunk> I can put these notes into the document
18:33:16 <Napkin> alright, anything else - otherwise i'd be gone for a while again ;-)
18:34:21 <gammafunk> nothing from me, cheers
18:34:21 <hayenne> thanks Napkin
18:34:23 <Napkin> cheers, gammafunk :) ping me, as always
18:34:43 <Napkin> maybe i manage to add 0.22 during the week.. my colleague is still one week on vacations ;-)
18:34:49 <hayenne> you know you've been afk for a long time when " Awaiting Confirmation of Resolution from Me" "Bug Report - 2011-12-07"
18:34:52 <Napkin> cheers! o/
18:35:32 <Napkin> hehehe
18:35:56 <Napkin> i've not been that much afk, i think
18:36:13 <Napkin> btw, greensna1k still alive?
18:36:53 <gammafunk> he is, not in irc a lot, but responds to email
18:37:03 <gammafunk> still running Sequell for us
18:37:06 <Napkin> cool :)
19:34:53 <pblur> Are elf earth elementalists supposed to be able to cast from in ghost vaults?
19:35:10 <pblur> Just ran into one in depths, and thought it might be a bug
19:36:25 <pblur> They're casting Awaken Earth through the translucent stone wall
19:43:45 <pblur> https://pastebin.com/eus6WDzR
20:10:31 <gammafunk> pblur: yeah, technically they are since elf earth elementalists have that ability
20:10:56 <gammafunk> it's a bit weird, but if we change that, we'd change the spell universally instead of only for ghost vaults
20:12:19 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
20:13:09 <geekosaur> arguably it shouldn't be doing it through windows/grates?
20:13:42 <gammafunk> well that's the thing, it's intended that they can dig you without having their target in los
20:14:17 <geekosaur> maybe they should recognize permarock then
20:14:18 <gammafunk> I'm not exactly sure how we'd make it respect that without having it do a full pathfind
20:14:41 <geekosaur> ah
20:14:53 <gammafunk> ghost vaults don't use permarock, and we don't really want them to, but yeah possibly they could require some kind of path
20:15:03 <gammafunk> or just not dig out of los at all maybe
20:15:04 <MarvinPA> imo it's not a great spell in general
20:15:10 <gammafunk> yeah, it has problems for sure
20:15:40 <pblur> I like it in elf 3
20:15:54 <gammafunk> we could probably just give them a normal dig spell
20:16:03 <pblur> It's anti-kill-holeness feels better than the random digging they used to do
20:16:15 <pblur> IMO
20:16:28 <gammafunk> I don't think they really ever had normal dig
20:16:30 <pblur> Because it feels like they're trying to kill you, not JUST screw you over
20:16:36 <gammafunk> maybe they did for a little while
20:16:42 <gammafunk> oh, well it's not very good at killing you, that spell
20:16:45 <pblur> Oh? I could have sworn something in E:3 did
20:16:51 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.23-a0-346-g4538c0e: Make major-tag-history.md -x 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4538c0ed7aba
20:17:02 <pblur> I know
20:17:02 <gammafunk> it summons some pretty harmless monsters
20:17:02 <gammafunk> cacodemons summoned by demonologists
20:17:16 <pblur> lol, yeah, just feels better to me than the pure waste of a turn that is dig.
20:17:44 <pblur> Eh, probably should just give them shatter. Gargoyles are too strong anyhow.
20:17:45 <pblur> :P
20:18:01 <gammafunk> no, monster shatter is not returning, generally speaking
20:18:31 <pblur> Oh? I just got back to crawl a couple weeks ago. What's wrong with shatter?
20:18:40 <pblur> I don't remember ever facing it
20:18:46 <pblur> Jogrun never lived long enough
20:18:48 <pblur> IIRC
20:20:12 <pblur> *shatter as a monster spell, I mean
20:22:19 <gammafunk> %git 833fe4c87f5ee
20:22:19 <Cheibriados> 07gammafunk02 * 0.22-a0-893-g833fe4c: Adjust Jorgrun's spells and move him earlier 10(3 months ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/833fe4c87f5e
20:22:25 <gammafunk> details in that commit
20:22:59 <gammafunk> jorgrun also got some subsequent changes, but yeah rip one-shotting gargoyles/statue-formers
20:23:12 <pblur> Fair enough
20:23:17 <pblur> :D
20:28:42 <advil> anyone have last-minute objections to the panlord-info changes?
20:29:42 <advil> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/compare/panlord-info
20:35:10 <gammafunk> liches are also set-based, aren't they
20:35:33 <advil> yes
20:35:45 <advil> there was some period of time where they worked like pan lords, but that didn't stick
20:35:54 <gammafunk> right
20:36:20 <advil> so the whole SEEN_SPELLS_KEY is still used for liches and a few other things, erolcha, ogre mages maybe, etc
20:37:19 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
20:41:23 <gammafunk> advil: other than a design objection to the notion that new players need special consideration for a change like this, I think you're right that it's probably better to balance the spikes with knowledge about them beforehand :)
20:42:39 <gammafunk> I suppose you could view it as a spoiler wrt new players not knowing about the spells, but there are still spoilers even if we tell players about the spells, and new players ultimately just got to learn what monster spells do via the school of hard knocks
20:43:02 <gammafunk> I think the only big concern I've seen raised in the past is the need to x-v every monster
20:43:26 <gammafunk> but pan lords are a rare and sort of special monster
20:43:26 <gammafunk> and the same happens with ghosts
20:44:54 <gammafunk> I haven't read the code details, so can't comment there
20:45:04 <advil> yeah, I'm ok with having to xv pan lords
20:45:14 <advil> the brand info will show without needing to do that
20:46:46 <advil> side benefit: pan lord descriptions are kind of cool, and now players might actually read them
20:47:50 <gammafunk> haha
20:48:16 <gammafunk> you should have read them before, of course, to see their speed especially
20:48:43 <advil> yeah...and the damage number seemed to change (though maybe just because I was in wizmode)
20:48:43 <gammafunk> we need a clippy to pop up and tell new players about xv
20:49:00 <Pinkbeast> Get 'em all to play Angband first so they're in the right habits :-)
20:49:29 <advil> keeping truly arbitrary spells to panlords + pghosts is probably for the best
20:50:03 <advil> whenever I tried to play angband there did seem to be a lot of little windows
20:52:35 <Pinkbeast> I've only played it in one-console mode but pertinently (as you may know, sorry) the monster memory remembers anything you've seen a monster do & you discover information about their stats once you've murdered a lot of them, so if you're not just using spoilers you keep checking it.
20:54:14 <advil> yeah, I was thinking of all the info windows that showed that stuff
20:55:17 <advil> I really need to give some band a shot
20:57:21 <advil> I guess frogcomposband is the current hot variant
20:57:58 <Pinkbeast> A few years ago I played vanilla and was pleasantly surprised
21:03:22 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.23-a0-347-g6656e44: Show pan lord spells in xv unconditionally 10(27 hours ago, 4 files, 11+ 28-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6656e4476a57
21:03:22 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.23-a0-348-g33639ab: Show pan lord brand information 10(22 hours ago, 5 files, 87+ 25-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/33639ab90a74
21:03:22 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.23-a0-349-gaeb629a: Various code cleanups for ghost_demon brands 10(9 hours ago, 9 files, 71+ 50-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/aeb629af13b4
21:06:42 <gammafunk> ot
21:06:45 <gammafunk> er
21:06:57 <gammafunk> it's a dev war between the orb run buffers and the orb run nerfers
21:07:39 <advil> heh
21:08:08 <advil> I still don't have a real sense for how the spawn change affected the orb run
21:10:43 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.23-a0-346-g4538c0ed7a (34)
21:13:40 <gammafunk> I haven't actually play-tested with the final rate used, but I did do a few runs with the more agressive rate in the initial PR and one less aggressive then the one MPA went with
21:14:13 <gammafunk> it was a bit too much with the agressive rate and perhaps too little with the lower rate I tried, so maybe the one MarvinPA used will be just right
21:14:36 <gammafunk> but without trying it 10 times it can be hard to get a great sense
21:15:18 <advil> I think somewhere I have a yermak save that is during the orbrun
21:15:39 <advil> (from some bug report)
21:15:56 <advil> I should just dig that up and walk around in it
21:58:32 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07* 0.23-a0-350-g6fd5563: Some pre-Lair vaults that place manuals from minmay 10(24 minutes ago, 1 file, 237+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6fd5563dc553
22:01:17 <Yermak> yay
22:10:45 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.23-a0-350-g6fd5563dc5 (34)
22:28:56 <gammafunk> Yermak: yay for pan lord info or yay for manual vaults?
22:29:06 <gammafunk> maybe it's yay for both
22:35:01 -!- muffindrake1 is now known as muffindrake
22:46:16 <Yermak> For manuals vault, but pna lord info is also great.