01:07:56 chukamok: what species/job are you trying to start a game as? 01:07:56 aidanh: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 01:08:06 !messages 01:08:06 (1/1) hellmonk said (3d 6h 50m 23s ago): thanks 01:26:10 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.22-a0-570-g58866f5 (34) 01:56:49 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.22-a0-570-g58866f5 02:55:52 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.22-a0-570-g58866f5 03:11:50 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.22-a0-570-g58866f5 (34) 04:17:08 27 stealth sacrificed to Ru. "This is an incredible sacrifice. Piety after sacrifice: ***..." Zero stars actually gained. https://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/DsMo/DsMo.txt Guess it's a bug of come kind? 04:17:41 *some kind 04:43:37 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 06:04:42 Sacrificing stealth at 27 skill does not give Ru piety. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11503 by Xenobreeder 07:05:10 Xenobreeder: looks like it evaluates the cost of the sacrifice after setting stealth to zero 07:05:56 Ha. And no one has noticed that since at least 0.19 07:15:35 yup, looks that way 07:18:47 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.22-a0-571-g4a923d4: Fix Ru sacrifices not giving full piety (Xenobreeder, #11503) 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4a923d4b9ef9 07:19:42 Xenobreeder: all fixed, thanks for reporting! btw, what's the colour scheme in the mantis screenshot? 07:22:27 Thank you! IIRC that's the default one, downloaded it just for testing, no personal tweaking. 07:23:55 aha 08:09:54 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.22-a0-571-g4a923d4b9e (34) 08:11:10 The build passed. (master - 4a923d4 #9865 : Aidan Holm): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/398559788 09:30:53 New branch created: pull/807 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/807 09:30:53 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/807 * 0.22-a0-572-g0116f15: Make items for the cloak slot be equally common as other aux slots again 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0116f15b0b1d 13:05:35 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.22-a0-571-g4a923d4 (34) 14:56:06 -!- a624fd is now known as rofl 15:31:04 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 18:20:54 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.22-a0-571-g4a923d4b9e (34) 18:45:24 gammafunk: this isn't in a PR state yet (or maybe it is) 18:45:29 https://github.com/ebering/crawl/tree/known-traps 18:46:10 quick synopsis: - traps are known - player has a small chance of getting shafted on new tile reveal - alarm traps are now like Zot traps 19:15:53 fr: move Centaur from the Intermediate category to the Simple category, both because it's simple and because that way all 3 categories will have exactly 9 species 21:42:30 <|amethyst> I'd move gnoll to Simple, since it is by construction simpler than other races 22:25:03 ebering: I had proposed something similar some time back (traps were going to either trigger or have no effect and in either case reveal), but there's a general problem with approach in that you have to keep good track of exactly which tiles you've never seen 22:25:15 The UI helps you with this but it's still a pain 22:26:04 because you have to have an excellent sense of whether a move would reveal a new tile or not, and this can be difficult 22:26:50 it sort of doesn't fully solve the problem of trap tile tracking is what I'm saying, although it certainly improves the situation 22:27:23 also I'm not sure if it makes sense to only have shafts trigger and not zot traps/alarm traps 22:28:05 one thing lasty had sort of proposed was solving the forward progress issue by having trap-like effects (e.g. zot, shaft) as you spend time 22:29:09 and then having no random trap gen in the usual sense, although you could allow random always revealed traps like in your proposal 22:29:29 but that was to try to remove food for most species in addition to solving the trap issue 22:29:40 I don't think Lasty found time to workon that, but it was an interesting idea 22:38:54 -!- eb__ is now known as eb 22:52:02 I see that issue (with having to have a sense of if a move will reveal a new tile) but I think it's very clear which moves have a *chance* of revealing a new tile 22:52:29 maybe I've played too much crawl 22:52:58 also, this particular patch gives you a chance of getting shafted on revealing wall tiles 22:53:39 on the flip side, if you reveal a tile while on a square that you can't be shafted from you won't be. That might have weird consequences for golubria I haven't checked 22:54:22 The implementation is in the same place as exploration piety, and isn't tied to revealing a trapped floor tile 22:56:10 So having Zot and Alarm effects in the mix is feasible. I'd argue that Zot-trap effects should either be re-thought or left out until Zot 22:57:00 But adding an alarm effect is a good idea 22:57:04 Thanks for the feedback 23:38:40 ebering: yeah, you could argue that it's not unreasonable to rely on what the UI shows for new tiles, but this was something elliptic brought up when I mentioned my similar idea to him as a solution 23:38:56 there might be another issue with this approach that was brought up in that conversation as well and I've forgotten, it was some time ago 23:40:04 One reason why the forward progress through trap effects thing is sort of an interesting idea is that players probably generally wouldn't like something as straightforward as a simple "decay" timer like piety decay 23:41:11 Forward progress through traps also makes auto-travel annoying. Though I guess this has the issue that autotravel might reveal new tiles... 23:41:13 and why they would probably not be excited by just having food without any other food costs (which is another solution to forward progress; remove all non-turn related food costs food is only for forward progress then drastically lower available food) 23:41:54 because it's just a simple timer with no flavor and no "interesting" gameplay 23:42:03 trap effects are a lot more flavorful and exciting 23:42:06 you should check out this 23:42:36 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/wiki/0.21-Development-and-Release-Plan#food-rework 23:42:50 which has a writeup of elliptic's XP decay idea for forward progress 23:43:28 Many people when they heard about it were not too excited in part because it was just this constant cost and there wasn't really anything interesting about it other than solving the degenerate gameplay issues 23:43:47 despite piety decay working the same way (people are a little more prone to accept piety decay) 23:43:59 your god is disappointed! 23:44:01 but there are also some issues with autoexplore and travel for they decaying clocks 23:44:38 for trap effects I think the idea was that it would not ever trigger through prior levels probably, but yeah I'm not sure what Lasty had in mind 23:45:09 yeah I definitely have something less ambitious in mind with this patch set 23:45:11 one complaint lasty had in general was not so much the flavor aspect of XP decay (which is what some people didn't like) but the autotravel issue 23:45:53 Well it's something that can expand in scope potentially; it would be wonderful to solve both problems, which is why I bring it up 23:46:27 if you like, maybe have a chat with Lasty about it when he's around, not sure if he has ideas about e.g. travel/autoexplore and how trap effects for forward progress would work 23:46:34 Will do 23:47:16 I dunno if I have good ideas about the larger clock issues, but I can see how lessons learned there are relevant here and that this could fold into a larger change