04:32:03 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
04:36:53 <NormalPerson7> amalloy what does set_random_mon_list do in portal vault syntax?
04:37:23 <NormalPerson7> cos my testing suggests it does absolutely nothing
04:39:12 <NormalPerson7> or any other dev
05:39:41 <gammafunk> I don't know what you mean by "portal vault syntax"
05:39:46 <gammafunk> there is no special syntax for portal vaults
05:40:28 <gammafunk> the function sets the random monster list, which will affect any spawns (these don't happen in portals), any monsters placed using the 0 glyph, and any summons generated by player or monster shadow creatures
05:57:11 <NormalPerson7> so gammafunk, why does this function even exist for portals then?
05:57:44 <NormalPerson7> set_random_mon_list is a function called in all wizlab vaults, yet obviously is not required
05:59:14 <gammafunk> well I explain what it does and why it would be useful for portals
05:59:23 <gammafunk> based on what it does, you'd definitely want it to be available
05:59:35 <NormalPerson7> right
05:59:51 <gammafunk> but beyond that, why does "exist for portals" actually mean?
06:00:08 <NormalPerson7> ye sorry i'm unclear aren't i
06:00:47 <gammafunk> even if it weren't useful for portals (where it very much is useful) functions are defined in the dgn library library not with the intent that they will be useful for literally every vault
06:01:08 <NormalPerson7> so if i were to update/buff a wizlab, like in my zonguldrok pr, i should update this function to include every monster which can generate?
06:01:23 <NormalPerson7> cos that's like 60 monsters now
06:01:36 <gammafunk> 60 monsters?
06:01:45 <gammafunk> you shouldn't be using 60 different kind of monsters in one portal
06:02:06 <NormalPerson7> i made the types of undead that spawn over time for the zonguldrok lab much more randomised
06:02:30 <NormalPerson7> and more dangerous, cos they were trivial before
06:02:30 <gammafunk> yes, but in order to use a set of dangerous monsters you don't need 60 different kinds
06:02:38 <NormalPerson7> hmm
06:02:44 <gammafunk> in fact, the more dangerous you want it to be, the fewer relevant kinds of monsters you should use, generally speaking
06:02:55 <gammafunk> but how you use that function depends on how you'd like your syntax to be
06:02:58 <NormalPerson7> it was regarding the base type for the derived undead tho
06:03:02 <gammafunk> if you want to use the 0 glyph, the answer changes
06:03:15 <gammafunk> typically it's relevance in those wizlabs is limited to shadow creatures
06:03:25 <NormalPerson7> ah right
06:03:29 <gammafunk> so it should be something like a reasonable representative set of monsters
06:03:34 <NormalPerson7> kk
06:03:42 <gammafunk> and often the only relevance here is player shadow creatures (from spell or scroll)
06:04:08 <NormalPerson7> right in which case it is important
06:04:14 <NormalPerson7> i hadn't thought about that, thx
06:04:20 <gammafunk> since you may not place any monsters that can cast the spell (although monsters might be able to pick up and read the scroll, but this is a really rare case)
06:05:05 <NormalPerson7> hmm so you don't think varying the kinds of derived undead and the base monsters for the derived undead that spawn over time is a good thing?
06:06:18 <gammafunk> well I think first and foremost you're thinking in terms of "does this map pose a credible challenge given the depth where players will encounter it" and if you are placing derived undead, those monsters are just generally bags of XP that only get differentiated by attack damage and speed
06:06:23 <gammafunk> er bags of HP
06:07:49 <gammafunk> I agree that the current map doesn't do this well, so you could increase the monster set; it's not critical to use some specific proportion of derived undead, but I think they should just be things that are dangerous from range of xl to like 16-20 or something like that
06:08:25 <NormalPerson7> i did also vary the non-derived undead to spawn things like phantasmal warriors, vampire magi, vampire knights, jiangshi etc
06:08:43 <gammafunk> so I would mostly go for more top-tier zombies, using only a few kinds; it's fine to upgrade the threat over time, but trying to be especially subtle about this won't do a lot (esp when it comes to the kind of zombie you use)
06:08:49 <NormalPerson7> and the derived undead became things like juggernauts and titans towards the end
06:09:16 <NormalPerson7> ok so i could trim it down some i gues
06:09:37 <gammafunk> I would probably just pick limited representative for each phase; like golden dragon would be better paired with juggernaut than titan
06:09:48 <gammafunk> golden dragon gets to trample at least
06:09:59 <gammafunk> titan has no spells, only its attack
06:10:04 <NormalPerson7> ye i had gold dragon in the tier 3 set too
06:10:29 <NormalPerson7> but sure i can trim it down to say 3 base mons for each tier
06:10:59 <gammafunk> it'd be nice if it didn't feel like doing a level of crypt, however it ends up
06:11:09 <NormalPerson7> hmm
06:11:18 <NormalPerson7> yes it would
06:11:28 <NormalPerson7> not sure how we could differentiate it
06:20:55 -!- wHATEver_ is now known as myp
09:53:16 <Henzell> fiddlefuck (L8 MfTm) Crash caused by signal #15: Terminated (D:4)
12:21:18 -!- PsyMar2 is now known as PsyMar
12:59:30 -!- PsyMar2 is now known as PsyMar
13:50:50 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
14:06:22 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/732 (9 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/732
14:06:23 <Cheibriados> 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/732 * 0.22-a0-260-g98a31b2: All commits up to 9th April 10(30 hours ago, 261 files, 1333+ 1142-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/98a31b2f0f5a
14:06:23 <Cheibriados> 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/732 * 0.22-a0-261-g1ff23eb: gammafunk's Hellbinder wizlab nerf 10(30 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1ff23eb071b2
14:06:23 <Cheibriados> 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/732 * 0.22-a0-351-gc641d5d: Merge the two branches, to try to start again 10(2 hours ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c641d5d7817c
14:06:23 <Cheibriados> 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/732 * 0.22-a0-352-gc7ac757: Add two extra liches to the antique lich fight (1) 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 17+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c7ac757c17bf
14:06:23 <Cheibriados> 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/732 * 0.22-a0-353-g4790baf: Buff and vary the derived undead (2) 10(87 minutes ago, 1 file, 54+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4790baf87cd2
14:06:23 <Cheibriados> 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/732 * 0.22-a0-354-gf89eea9: Change the komodo dragons to swamp dragons (2b) 10(78 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f89eea98b6de
14:06:23 <Cheibriados> 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/732 * 0.22-a0-355-g2a631db: Remove max on non-derived undead spawns a tier (3) 10(67 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2a631dbef86e
14:06:23 <Cheibriados> 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/732 * 0.22-a0-356-g83d07cf: Buff and vary the non-derived undead (4) 10(40 minutes ago, 1 file, 15+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/83d07cfd8840
14:06:23 <Cheibriados> 03NormalPerson702 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/732 * 0.22-a0-357-g7bfef18: Update set_random_mon_list (5) 10(13 minutes ago, 1 file, 19+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7bfef18130f1
14:59:28 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/733 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/733
14:59:28 <Cheibriados> 03argonaut02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/733 * 0.22-a0-293-g67ea8d3: The unrand trident "Rift" with distortion and extended reach. 10(7 minutes ago, 6 files, 96+ 54-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/67ea8d35e04c
15:04:51 <gammafunk> uh oh
15:04:51 <gammafunk> no one tell wheals
15:33:57 <CanOfWorms> could this be the legendary double spear?!
15:46:41 <CanOfWorms> by the way gammafunk, I finally have some inspiration for the sif altar
15:47:37 <CanOfWorms> http://puu.sh/A0obC/b5f2288edc.png
15:47:53 <CanOfWorms> might need to do some alpha layer tricks to get the central thing to look riight
16:11:43 <aidanh> that's not bad; kinda looks similar to vehumet's altar though
16:21:31 <CanOfWorms> yeah, the general pillar structure is also a bit too generic
16:28:34 <gammafunk> ooh, that's looking nice worms
16:28:44 <gammafunk> the days of blue poop may be coming to an end
18:42:36 <Cheibriados> Vampirism Weapons keeps on asking for swap confirmation even after re-brand 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11443 by graffen69
21:03:55 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
21:20:32 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy