00:25:27 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.22-a0-231-g1b571ea (34) 00:47:20 -!- Snuva is now known as surr 03:11:08 shoop (L12 TeAE) ASSERT(xp >= 0) in 'player.cc' at line 2789 failed. (D:10) 03:20:49 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.22-a0-231-g1b571ea (34) 05:07:50 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 05:16:02 -!- Snuva is now known as surr 06:48:21 Library interface needs instructions 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11396 by Le_Nerd 07:04:15 Ashenzari Gate Detection partially broken 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11397 by Le_Nerd 08:51:32 did ash detection really ever fully identify portals at a distance? i seem to remember it always just showing a nonspecific portal/shop 08:55:45 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.22-a0-232-g362d6f4: Note the effect of Invo skill in Nemelex description (#11393) 10(61 seconds ago, 1 file, 5+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/362d6f471266 09:00:58 03|amethyst02 07* 0.22-a0-233-gd1b7544: Remove Trog spellbook autopickup special-case. 10(36 seconds ago, 2 files, 1+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d1b754485ab9 09:05:41 03Ian Caltabiano02 {MarvinPA} 07* 0.22-a0-234-g97f78ea: Mark axes as a preferred weapon type for Ogres (#11391) 10(32 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/97f78eae9ab4 09:09:44 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.22-a0-232-g362d6f4712 (34) 09:22:31 hmm, should permanently useless spells even be added to the library? seems bad to start a mummy necromancer and have to manually hide regen every time for example 09:27:22 ah i guess it's only an issue for starting books, not books you find later 09:33:14 I'm not sure what wheals went with in the end but I was arguing that they should nominally be in there because otherwise you have no easy way to even figure out what they are, since you can't read the book any more 09:33:28 (well, you can through ?/, but then you have to remember the book name) 09:34:22 i could see it making sense if they get added but only as hidden by default, maybe 09:34:34 %git 692369fde701b1d 09:34:34 07wheals02 * 0.22-a0-219-g692369f: Show unmemorisable spells in the memorise menu. 10(5 days ago, 1 file, 63+ 77-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/692369fde701 09:35:04 oh, well that's definitely broken currently 09:35:38 since as implemented you don't add unmemorisable spells to the library at all (except for the case of starting books i mentioned) 09:35:53 <|amethyst> Does that include temporarily-unmemorisable spells? 09:36:32 hidden by default seems like a good way to go 09:36:37 temporarily unmemorisable spells get added to the library (but still winds does not correctly mark cloud spells as only temporarily unmemorisable so if you pick up the book of clouds while still winds is active the book just disappears into nothingness) 09:37:07 (i'm fixing that along with some other minor visual things) 09:38:15 oh also i was just wrong anyway 09:38:29 it's only messaging that gets hidden, not adding the spells to the library, so ignore basically everything i said above! 09:39:56 are they non-hidden by default? I thought we had actually talked about making them hidden by default 09:40:03 they're non-hidden, yeah 09:48:41 <|amethyst> IMO anything that's hidden by default should become unhidden if the condition is lifted 09:49:14 <|amethyst> since things like worship are IIRC considered "permanent" rather than "temporary" conditions 09:49:38 <|amethyst> (I know they are in some other contexts, don't know about unmemorizability) 09:49:41 i don't think worship is factored in at all here 09:49:48 !source spell_uselessness_reason 09:49:48 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/spl-util.cc#L1088 09:49:57 it looks like all the permanent conditions are truly permanent 09:50:03 <|amethyst> ah, god-hated doesn't count? never mind then :) 09:50:29 yeah, that's a separate check i think 09:51:39 <|amethyst> hm 09:52:06 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: you said you were fixing the cloud thing, but orb_limits_translocations just below that probably should be a bit more involved 09:52:31 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: e.g. you find a book with Passage while in Zot, which you are clearing before Tomb 09:53:02 <|amethyst> in that case it should be considered temporary 09:53:02 ah good point, that must not have been updated for zot applying the status 09:53:38 <|amethyst> probably orb_limits_translocations should get a bool temp = true parameter? 09:53:38 <|amethyst> I have to imagine there are other places where this could come up 09:54:22 <|amethyst> hm, actually looks like not, but still 09:54:56 <|amethyst> I think that would be cleaner than copy-pasting the code from orb_limits_translocations (with a temp && added) into spell_uselessness_reason 09:56:39 if any god non-permanent god restriction impacts spell schools as a whole, that is counted slightly differently, not sure if any of the good gods work like that 09:57:56 looks like only ru is implemented that way, nm 09:58:02 <|amethyst> ah 09:58:17 <|amethyst> necromancy is effectively forbidden to players, not not explicitly 09:58:30 <|amethyst> it just so happens that all the SPFLAG_NOT_EVIL necro spells are monster-only 09:58:33 <|amethyst> (healing) 09:58:58 <|amethyst> s/to players/to worshippers of good gods/ 09:59:30 |amethyst: btw do you have any thoughts on the best way to implement stuff like muting in tileschat? 10:00:07 I have a prototype in a branch but I'm not sure if it's the best way to go 10:00:38 <|amethyst> advil: I saw that... not sure about using a cookie to store it 10:00:59 <|amethyst> IMO it should be stored with the account, but the problem is you'd have to find a place to store it on the servers 10:01:15 the cookie approach is a bit odd, but it avoids messing with the server database 10:01:20 <|amethyst> since you probably *don't* want that published the way the rc file and persistent files are 10:01:42 <|amethyst> advil: the problem with a cookie is that people use different devices 10:01:46 yes 10:01:50 <|amethyst> but it does avoid those server issues... 10:01:54 an alternative would be to have it just be per-player and entirely in javascript + cookies 10:02:03 that's a bit better fit with saving in cookies 10:02:07 <|amethyst> I guess it's per-player per-server 10:02:19 yeah 10:03:22 if only we had sso 10:04:13 <|amethyst> if only we had web programmers :) 10:04:13 heh 10:04:13 <|amethyst> who actually wanted to work on web programming as a hobby 10:04:50 while we're on the topic of web stuff, does anyone know how webtiles handles older versions of crawl? 10:05:14 <|amethyst> aidanh: the stuff that would change between versions is in per-version javascript files 10:05:29 the immediate problem I'm trying to solve is more like acute spamming, rather than chronic spamming, so not having eternal perfect saving is ok for that 10:05:33 that's in the game_data/ dir, correct? 10:05:38 <|amethyst> aidanh: yeah 10:06:07 I guess not having it save at all would be an option 10:06:41 great, thanks 10:07:38 <|amethyst> advil: I think (perhaps with a "save mute list" checkbox somewhere) having a cookie is better than having no persistence 10:08:23 I mean, my two cents - you could use an ajax call to a databse that's not on the servers to handle mutes 10:09:32 well, where's the database? 10:09:32 <|amethyst> probably, but I'm wary of adding piecemeal centralization like that 10:09:43 <|amethyst> it would be one thing if we did that alongside SSO, where we're explicitly opting for a SPOF and getting lots of benefits from it 10:09:43 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.22-a0-234-g97f78eae9a (34) 10:09:51 <|amethyst> (SSO = single sign on) 10:09:53 yes, I think if we do centralization it should be wholesale (but then that's the sso problem) 10:10:10 <|amethyst> (SPOF = single point of failure) 10:10:56 <|amethyst> (but I guess a "failure" of spam prevention is less bad than a failure of the ability to play crawl 10:10:59 <|amethyst> ) 10:11:00 Yeah, I know what SPOF is. You're right, but there's no tidy way to handle that 10:11:11 (spam prevention without some server-side solution) 10:12:38 <|amethyst> well, for the time being if it's repeated across each of the crawl servers, that's not terrible 10:12:59 <|amethyst> it means people do have to separately manage their mute lists on all the servers they play on 10:13:08 <|amethyst> but most people don't play on more than one or maybe two servers 10:13:55 <|amethyst> but I agree that the best ultimate solution to this and a lot of other problems is to undecentralize a bit 10:13:58 I guess I'd optimistically hope that there's not much managing to have to do...but if one adds a feature people might use it... 10:14:50 amethyst: undecentralize 10:14:50 I'm going to start using that word 10:14:50 <|amethyst> :) 10:15:16 Undecentralizing would certainly solve issues, but in the short term, a decentralized approach, wile it may not be the best solution, isn't a bad solution 10:15:17 <|amethyst> "recentralize" wouldn't be right, because the different servers have always been independent 10:15:22 <|amethyst> :) 10:15:44 it's just that right now there's no check on people like this one user that has been spamming (apparently a few specific) tileschat players with some kind of imgur link (that I haven't dared to try to follow), and it's super easy to just repeatedly paste + enter 10:15:54 Alright y'all, I have to get going 10:15:58 so probably the easiest way to test older webtiles versions is just to revert webserver/game_data/ to an older version? 10:16:13 Feel free to check out the vault editor if you have a sec - would love feedback on it 10:16:14 yeah 10:16:32 <|amethyst> aidanh: you'd need an older Crawl too 10:16:33 advil: re the mute list, you could certainly just add data to the webtiles sqlite3 db 10:16:47 <|amethyst> aidanh: game_data should always exactly match the version of the crawl binary 10:16:52 gammafunk: how does that interact with existing dbs? 10:17:02 it's just a very simple table in sqlite3 10:17:11 you could expand that table or you could create a new table 10:17:19 you can even create an entirely new db file if you wanted 10:17:39 I guess I've been trying to avoid knowing how that part of things works :) 10:17:44 but yeah I should at least consider it 10:17:45 yeah, it's not too hard 10:17:51 I use it now for beem and lomblobot 10:18:02 user db side of webtiles is quite simple 10:19:12 I only mention it because people where talking about where do we store things, and that seems like the most obvious place 10:19:17 if cookies aren't being used 10:20:18 I was worried about what server admins might need to do / version incompatibilities / who knows what, but it sounds like that's easier to deal with than I thought 10:21:22 |amethyst: hm, true; thanks, I'll give it a go 10:22:09 if you put this in a new table, the only thing you'd probably need is to check for the table being missing and create it if so 10:22:15 but this is already done for the user db 10:22:35 although I suppose it's not done that way; probably it only happens if the db file is missing 10:22:43 but checking for the existence of a table is very easy 10:22:53 ok 10:23:03 you can do a select on a table that contains information about all tables in the db file 10:25:51 what if we encouraged all admins to disable webtiles chat, the |amethyst option? :) 10:26:13 put links to freenode and discord 10:28:11 it'd be interesting to hear from all the admins what they thought about that 10:28:24 I'm guessing at least a few would be strongly opposed, but maybe not 10:41:31 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.22-a0-235-g6ad8dc3: Don't mark cloud spells as permanently useless under Still Winds 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6ad8dc3c0fe8 10:41:31 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.22-a0-236-gbe7b7cd: Improve spell library display and messaging 10(8 minutes ago, 2 files, 38+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/be7b7cd180f1 10:41:31 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.22-a0-237-g4386d7c: Mark PoG only temporarily useless when in Zot but without the orb (|amethyst) 10(5 minutes ago, 3 files, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4386d7c10379 10:44:14 oh, i did notice that ctrl+f is still undocumented though, maybe the library should have a proper help page now like the skill menu does 10:46:22 I was vaguely thinking about standardising on a particular key for help pages, which could lessen the need for help text everywhere 10:48:05 mmm that would be a truly noble cause 10:48:13 the main problem is it can't be ? 10:49:15 so i guess it could be _ everywhere for consistency with the current pickup/drop screens, but that's still just kinda weird 10:51:04 there's always f1, for a more conventional key; alternatively, perhaps have it be ? on most screens and _ on the remainder that need to use ? 10:51:51 "change mode" is also wildly inconsistent (usually it's ! or ?, but for the religion screen it's ! or ^, for known spells it's ! or I, and ? just quits both those screens even though its unused otherwise...) 10:51:53 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: can't be ? because of scrolls? Move them to + then :) 10:52:01 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: err, to : rather 10:52:39 that's... actually a pretty good idea 10:53:12 the only UI that can still have books is shops, and they don't bind ? afaik 10:55:33 i think books would still need their own glyph but that sounds like it could work in theory 10:55:48 ah, perhaps books should be moved to the 'other items' group in \ now 10:58:04 there's probably not much point listing out all the known books on that screen, yeah 10:59:04 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.22-a0-238-gd711f93: Fix formatting on a help menu 10(20 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d711f9382e1b 11:02:50 is there any other UI that would need a book glyph? inv and drop menus are out, of course 11:05:44 the pickup menu would still want one ideally 11:09:53 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.22-a0-238-gd711f9382e (34) 11:24:15 what would be the use-case for that? selective addition of books to one's library? 11:33:58 assuming reading takes time, there might be cases where you want to read just one book and then run away 11:35:09 you could still select the book by its letter in that case 11:40:09 or just conveniently picking up all the books at once after apportstorming a stack of zig loot or whatever 11:40:28 would just be weird for them not to have a hotkey when everything else you can pick up does 11:43:03 I guess I was subconsciously moving them to the misc category for pickup as well, but that probably isn't ideal 12:11:03 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.22-a0-238-gd711f93 (34) 12:26:28 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 12:38:00 Today's goal - to add the Subst keyword 12:50:37 Staves stash search prefix does not return when "staff" is searched for, so lajatangs do not return from ctrl-f "staff". 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11398 by NormalPerson7 12:57:57 rangerofthewest: what would that do? 13:39:10 -!- anon is now known as Guest82086 14:34:56 -!- Dracunos_ is now known as Dracunos 15:13:47 Trap confirmations absolutely should not accept lowercase letters. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11399 by NormalPerson7 15:19:17 funnily enough i often move with Y instead of y, to make sure i notice when a monster is in LOS. i don't think i've accidentally confirmed a Y/N prompt that way before, but i've certainly come close 15:29:41 aidanh: regarding using _ for help for consistency with pickup/drop, it'd also be consistent with the \ menu 15:30:11 when i heard that ^f was secret tech for the new M screen, the first thing i did was check whether _ takes me to a help menu for M 16:10:55 oh, you can use ^f in that screen now? handy 18:18:33 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.22-a0-238-gd711f9382e (34) 20:59:57 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 21:18:09 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 21:55:32 sophia (L15 GrFi) ASSERT(m) in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1978 failed. (Zot (ZotDef)) 22:58:36 03advil02 07* 0.22-a0-239-g54792a9: Don't let an undocumented texture setting affect fonts 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/54792a9cdb83 22:58:36 03advil02 07* 0.22-a0-240-g539252a: Unbrace / checkwhite 10(31 seconds ago, 7 files, 13+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/539252a0a6ba 23:09:41 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.22-a0-240-g539252a0a6 (34) 23:53:17 I need to finish making kprops work