00:12:58 -!- Dracunos_ is now known as Dracunos 00:14:52 This is beautiful. At least some of the code is well documented 01:03:25 Addressed issue 0011391 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11392 by rangerofthewest 01:04:34 ?help 01:04:47 -!- RogueAustralian is now known as rangerofthewest 01:05:03 Should probably keep username consistency 01:24:36 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.22-a0-224-g8cf3520 (34) 01:31:02 Just working on throwing together a few patches 01:31:04 -!- Shoggoth is now known as EuphOria 01:38:02 rangerofthewest, it's probably preferable to post the patch in the same issue 01:38:03 aidanh: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 01:38:14 !messages 01:38:14 (1/1) wheals said (1d 4h 8m 37s ago): you can remove 6bf0435f8 now finally :P 01:41:00 Oh yeah, that discontinuity was really annoying 01:41:19 Which discontinuity? 01:41:32 And I shouldn't create a new issue for each patch? Just post it to the issue I'm patching? 01:45:02 that commit made spell lists in books skip the letter d, because d was used by the drop command 01:45:46 ah 01:45:46 so if you looked at spells one by one, it was easy to drop the book halfway through; really irritating 01:45:55 and it's probably preferable to keep the patch in the same issue, but not a huge deal 01:46:08 Alright, can do for future ones 01:46:33 How do I upload a patch file to a same issue 01:46:47 Never mind 01:46:48 Found it 01:49:50 welp, I submitted my two patches for tonight 01:54:28 rangerofthewest, there's some whitespace issues in your patch 01:54:49 the second one? 01:55:28 yeah, crawl uses spaces only, no tabs; no need to reupload it, just something to be aware of 01:55:43 Oh yeah... I read that in the conventions 01:55:46 Force of habit :| 01:56:21 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.22-a0-224-g8cf3520 01:56:49 Oh well. Thanks for the heads up 01:56:51 no worries; I'll take a look at that patch now 01:57:42 Yeah, figure this is the best way to slowly get involved with devving for crawl 01:58:06 Also, that patch, while it works, and it certainly addresses the issue, I tested it four separate times and one of the four times there was a weird text odering thing 01:58:24 (it said "You triggered a trap!" then "You got blown back") rather than the other way around 01:58:52 I'll be on tomorrow to dink around more and see what else I can fix. 01:58:55 that's probably because the stop_delay() call is no longer guarded by the if statement 01:59:15 Yeah, I'm not too familiar with the codebase, so I'll see what else I can learn and fix. Step by step. 01:59:26 It's a daunting prospect, getting into this 02:01:20 crawl is a pretty good project to contribute to; there's lots of low-hanging fruit that are easy to fix 02:01:52 Who knows. I'm hoping that this'll turn into a project that I can use to occupy more and more of my time with, but for now, I'm just getting started 02:02:37 I have a few thoughts for what I want to do as I get more familiar, but it took me enough time to figure out the event handling for wind displacement 02:14:00 -!- ProzacElf_ is now known as ProzacElf 02:39:02 New branch created: move-to-trap (4 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/move-to-trap 02:39:02 03Aidan Holm02 07[move-to-trap] * 0.22-a0-224-gc06af49: Move ability checks to _check_ability_possible() 10(2 days ago, 3 files, 91+ 107-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c06af493243f 02:39:02 03Aidan Holm02 07[move-to-trap] * 0.22-a0-225-g1540414: Add _check_ability_dangerous() 10(35 hours ago, 3 files, 17+ 23-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1540414b803e 02:39:02 03Aidan Holm02 07[move-to-trap] * 0.22-a0-226-g92ab26b: Colourise the ability menu 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 23+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/92ab26b966bf 02:39:02 03Aidan Holm02 07[move-to-trap] * 0.22-a0-227-g601c557: Fix traps not being activated by wind-blasted actors (Beargit, rangerofthewest, #11253) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/601c557e0c3c 02:40:39 03Aidan Holm02 07[move-to-trap] * 0.22-a0-224-g1301674: Fix traps not being activated by wind-blasted actors (Beargit, rangerofthewest, #11253) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1301674e56f3 02:46:05 New branch created: pull/712 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/712 02:46:05 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/712 * 0.22-a0-224-g1301674: Fix traps not being activated by wind-blasted actors (Beargit, rangerofthewest, #11253) 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1301674e56f3 02:53:08 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.22-a0-224-g8cf3520 02:58:16 trying to compile (windows - minGW64) - went through everything in quckstart and install, some google-fu... stuck with this error and can't figure it out... anyone immediately recognize this or have advice? https://imgur.com/UCdgpL6 03:00:38 Realzy, can you pastebin the full error log somewhere? 03:00:56 howto ? 03:03:42 copy all the text in that terminal window, and then use a website like pastebin.com 03:08:07 https://pastebin.com/pD5nm9tJ 03:11:39 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.22-a0-224-g8cf3520 (34) 03:28:18 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.22-a0-225-gc850c1e: Move ability checks to _check_ability_possible() 10(2 days ago, 3 files, 91+ 107-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c850c1e328e8 03:28:18 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.22-a0-226-gc2f0fb8: Add _check_ability_dangerous() 10(2 days ago, 3 files, 17+ 23-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c2f0fb85b5f3 03:28:18 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.22-a0-227-gae599e4: Colourise the ability menu 10(2 days ago, 2 files, 24+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ae599e4267b9 03:28:18 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.22-a0-228-g3692b99: Fix ability descriptions not visible on webtiles (droogie, #11390) 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3692b995fa9f 03:31:23 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 03:36:22 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 03:46:38 The build passed. (move-to-trap - 1301674 #9345 : Aidan Holm): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/343249186 04:04:34 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 04:09:45 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.22-a0-228-g3692b995fa (34) 04:11:11 looking for some advice - not sure if this is the best place! but any help is super appreciated. I'm new to git, and struggling to compile the project (dungeon crawl stone soup) that i'm working on. I've gotten this far (on windows - mingw64) - https://pastebin.com/pD5nm9tJ 04:11:21 can anyone make any sense of that error? google-fu coming up short 04:12:47 oh boy, meant to post to #git. sorry for the spam 04:21:27 Realzy: that log doesn't contain much, but you could try running ./util/art-data.pl directly to get an error message 04:57:51 no error produced, but thanks for taking a look anyways aidan, cheers 04:58:31 this aspect of troubleshooting pieces of technology that are way over my head is tiresome for sure =P 05:00:08 try running this: make debug-lite TILES=y V=y 05:00:23 the V=y should make it more verbose during build 05:12:47 kk 05:12:49 running 05:13:41 wow interesting, back to similar-looking errors i was getting previous 05:14:53 https://pastebin.com/6rccdimt 05:21:34 that might be caused by the debug-lite target; you might have better luck with just: make TILES=y V=y 05:30:18 oh, that one 05:30:20 not sure what the status of that is, it's a conflict between sdl and msys2 05:30:26 or mingw 05:30:46 yeah, i thought i was past it before 05:32:22 but now it's happening again... and i don't think anything changed >_< 05:33:36 https://pastebin.com/Xubb75Nj 05:33:53 (that's w/ make TILES=y V=y) 05:41:40 oh, that's this bug https://bugzilla.libsdl.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3609#c2 05:42:23 i wonder why i'm hitting it sometimes, but not other times =x 05:44:20 Realzy: what's the output of this: git submodule status contrib/sdl2 05:45:01 perhaps you need to run git submodule update ... that bug looks like it was fixed a while ago 05:45:42 https://pastebin.com/g0LiFRQZ 05:45:43 more complex than that, iirc. 05:46:39 i've run the command 'git submodule update --init' before... are you saying i should again? why would i have lost whatever that did? very strange 05:47:11 ran it again, didn't do anything (i assume already up-to-date) 06:04:56 have to sleep - thanks again aidan, i'll keep at it 06:05:25 no worries 09:36:36 that bug wasn't actually fixed in crawl, because the sdl fix relies on a configure check 09:38:29 I came up with something to commit but I was concerned it would break mingw cross-compiling 09:42:12 yeah I was going to ask about that, since I recall you said this sometime around/after the release 09:42:54 before they did the configure check they had a hacky way of checking the version (https://hg.libsdl.org/SDL/rev/117d4ce1390e), we could just use that 09:43:30 Morning y'all 09:44:29 hrm, msys2 is also setting this MINGW32 define is it not? 09:44:29 since i believe they're also using mingw compilers 09:44:52 it's the gcc version check that's crucial 09:45:28 but yeah...I think the problem is actually on msys2 09:45:35 I could get it at least (once I'd updated things) 09:45:59 the gcc version check is supposed to approximate the mingw version where that header changed 09:47:26 (the actual final sdl fix is https://hg.libsdl.org/SDL/rev/c936a84f05ba) 09:47:59 I guess I'm a little confused as to how mingw changing would affect defines specific to SDL 09:48:08 Is HAS_XINPUT_GAMEPAD_EX something outside of SDL? 09:48:35 yes, mingw added XINPUT_GAMEPAD_EX and XINPUT_STATE_EX to a system header file 09:49:05 doh 09:49:06 mingw64/x86_64-w64-mingw32/include/xinput.h 09:49:46 so now sdl has to either define it or not define it depending on mingw version 09:49:53 annoying, eh 09:50:28 tbh I'm not entirely sure why we don't run into problems more often that are fixed by a contrib configure 09:52:33 I guess there's some grunt magic in those makefiles that makes it all work 09:54:01 looking at this makes me wonder if we could just support both CMake and autoconf like SDL apparently does 09:54:31 apparently Visual Studio support CMake? 09:55:04 hrm, maybe that doesn't help us since our contribs don't use CMake 09:55:08 would be nice to modernize the build system a bit (is cmake modern?) 09:56:10 hm, sounds like anything that uses make can be easily built with cmake 09:56:15 so that would be ideal if true 09:57:02 this is a tempting project, but man is my crawl work very unfocused right now 09:59:39 "Boost to move to cmake build and test" sold 10:01:01 have you used cmake? do we have any devs who have used it? 10:02:24 I might just commit that hacky compile-time check to the contrib for now though 10:04:42 rangerofthewest: you mentioned a vault editor earlier; is that just a quick and dirty tool? or something more substantial 10:05:02 Presently it's a quick and dirty tool 10:05:13 Basically converts png images to vaults 10:05:16 advil: I've not used cmake myself, but I've heard a fair amount of negative feedback from people I know 10:05:21 Doesn't do headers 10:05:43 what are they comparing it to? 10:06:44 no comparison; they use it at work 10:06:53 ah 10:07:21 aidanh: I'm working on making the vault editor more useful but it was a 15 minute throw together to make my sanity easier 10:07:57 purely anecdotal, of course, and the current config + makefile could definitely be improved upon though 10:08:24 yeah, it's hard to interpret without a comparison set, because probably all build systems are terrible 10:08:42 rangerofthewest, ok, I think a graphical vault editor would definitely be something we'd like to have 10:09:17 aidanh, then I'll devote some time to that. I'll build it off of a pixel editor, and add features from there. 10:09:34 bonus points if it's a webapp with an embedded lua vm for handling dlua; that'd be lots of work though 10:09:48 there existed some kind of vault editor 10:10:27 aidanh not making promises on that. Keeping it simple initially, and as demand increases, functionality will too 10:10:35 advil yeah, I looked around, but it doesn't exist anymore 10:10:37 it was for 0.12 10:11:02 well, it is downloadable from somewhere, I saw a link last week 10:11:06 no idea what it does 10:12:02 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21723 10:12:40 * aidanh wgets... 10:14:34 Actually this is pretty nice yeah 10:15:35 because mine was going to be similar in functionality 10:17:35 aidanh there you go :P 10:17:35 what's the licensing status of that thing? 10:19:48 All the CSS / JS is MIT 10:20:02 the functionality, it has no license so it's fundamentally unlicensed 10:20:16 ok 10:20:33 just wondering if it would be possible to put it up on github or something, but in that state, not without further work 10:20:33 It is a little teensy bit out of date 10:20:57 Yeah, I mean, I can make this my project if y'all want 10:22:48 Eh, I'll start work on it. aidanh what were you talking about with the lua vm? 10:23:07 that'd be very cool 10:23:16 I mean, I have a library floating around that I can add that functionality, but surely, you can't test the lua without it being in game, right? 10:24:27 well, I'm not sure if you could; but if it's possible, a lua vm would be necessary 10:25:00 I'm less familiar with the vault format; other people would know more 10:25:32 let me see what I can throw together. First, there are a few things that'll have to be fixed about this initial vault editor 10:29:49 fwiw if the licensing status of that editor is unclear I wouldn't base anything major on it... 10:31:05 Yeah, I'll be redoing the functionality 10:31:19 The libraries it's built on are MIT-licensed, but I will be redoing the functionality that has no clear license 10:31:43 ok 10:32:09 not sure if the author is contactable (or even who it is), gammafunk may know 10:32:55 Eh, it's fine. Won't take too long to fix up. I'll throw it up on a github repository 10:33:09 any feature requests for it? 10:34:18 I think gammafunk is also someone to talk to about that (or anyone else who makes vaults) 10:34:26 the author of that is noodl i think? 10:34:28 ?nood 10:34:32 ?/nood 10:34:32 No matches. 10:34:49 they went by noodle or noodl and they have a vault or two in the game as well 10:34:55 but I don't know how to contact them 10:35:00 !seen noodl 10:35:00 Sorry gammafunk, I haven't seen noodl. 10:35:02 !seen noodle 10:35:02 Sorry gammafunk, I haven't seen noodle. 10:35:06 !seen nooodl 10:35:06 I last saw nooodl at Wed Aug 6 12:16:33 2014 UTC (about 3y 28w 5d 3h 18m 33s ago) quitting, saying 'Ping timeout: 240 seconds'. 10:35:09 aha 10:35:12 that might be them 10:35:19 ?/nooodl 10:35:19 Matching terms (1): nooodl; entries (16): 27[22] | adom[2] | crate_crawl[2] | hilarious_cdo_deaths[35] | mauris[1] | ncrawl[2] | nomi[9] | nooodl[7] | nooodl[9] | nooodl[11] | nooodl[17] | nooodl[18] | nooodl[19] | nooodl[20] | nooodl[21] | nooodl[22] 10:35:26 wow 10:35:28 ??nooodl 10:35:28 nooodl[1/22]: Dungeon -> Catacombs -> Laboratory -> Drowned City -> Underpass -> Cave -> Communications Hub -> Vault -> Lair -> Chapel 10:35:32 lol 10:35:34 uh 10:35:46 yeah that's the person who made that editor though, I've only chatted with them a few times 10:36:23 I don't think they care what you do with that code, I believe they even told that to me, since said editor is the last thing I spoke with them about 10:37:40 OK, either way. I'll do this under the MIT license because that's what bootstrap is under 10:37:53 ??nooodl[$ 10:37:53 nooodl[22/22]: ok what is nooodl_ doing on termcast 10:38:02 the plot thickens, wheals knows of nooodl as well 10:41:06 it might be this person, based on tavern profile: http://www.infiniplix.ca/ 10:41:16 (https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4600) 10:44:20 Alright. You can access it from https://crawlerofthewest.github.io/vault/ 10:44:25 I'll be making updates from there 10:45:46 oh wait 10:46:21 advil: I think this is a different editor? 10:47:00 oh hm 10:47:09 infiniplex is not the same person as nooodl, and I think nooodl made the javascript editor in that thread that was linked before 10:47:14 yeah, this does seem different, I just saw a similar html name 10:47:21 but this is a java applet 10:47:24 infiniplex apparently made one in java, yeah 10:47:29 I'm not sure I ever saw this 10:47:31 Yeah, that one's out of date and I can't find it 10:47:34 the infiniplex one 10:48:27 but yeah if you wanted to take over that js editor and improve it, it would be appreciated 10:48:49 That's what I'll do 10:49:14 cheibrodos (player and vault contributer) made many of his vaults initially in that editor, I'm sure some others have as well 10:50:49 Well, cool 10:51:13 ??vaultedit 10:51:13 vaultedit[1/1]: hangedman's todos: update shown features, tiles; allow putting in text and seeing the vaultedit load that vault; direct links to vault philosophy guides shown for newcomers; dragging around tiles display, expanding it; hovertooltips??; 10:51:49 that was a todo regret-index made about that tool 10:52:07 So the first thing I'm gonna do is add an arrival vault option 10:52:52 !learn add vaultedit Vault editing tool originally by nooodl, now hosted and developed by rangerofthewest: https://crawlerofthewest.github.io/vault/ 10:52:53 vaultedit[2/2]: Vault editing tool originally by nooodl, now hosted and developed by rangerofthewest: https://crawlerofthewest.github.io/vault/ 10:53:20 !learn mv vaultedit[1] vaultedit[2] 10:53:20 vaultedit[1] -> vaultedit[2/2]: hangedman's todos: update shown features, tiles; allow putting in text and seeing the vaultedit load that vault; direct links to vault philosophy guides shown for newcomers; dragging around tiles display, expanding it; hovertooltips??; 10:53:20 feel free to edit that entry with whatever you feel is approrpriate 10:53:38 and if you get the tool to a good state we can certainly link it in the des development docs in the repo and elsewhere 10:55:06 are people going to get grumpy if I switch webtiles to a proportional font? 10:55:12 yep 10:56:22 Alright, gamma. 10:56:25 Thanks :) 10:56:35 So - first order of business. The vault editor now supports arrival vaults 10:56:36 A much needed tweak 10:58:47 how about if I use more than white + black to draw the UI? 10:59:43 gammafunk, traps are deprecated in the vault builder now right 11:00:20 not sure what you mean by deprecated in the vault builder 11:00:46 I mean the ^ token 11:00:49 you can still place either random or specific traps in vaults 11:01:04 oh, because in the documentation it says it's deprecated 11:01:07 yeah I think that trap glyph might be deprecated 11:01:21 what's the appropriate glyph? 11:01:33 they want you to use ~ 11:01:43 oh 11:01:44 nm 11:01:49 hmmm 11:01:51 that's deprecated too apparently 11:02:16 honestly not sure what this deprecation note is about 11:02:41 %git de87d9832f0143a7fbfe6d4bffad3c880cfdab72 11:02:41 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.19-a0-14-gde87d98: Tweak some level documentation 10(1 year, 10 months ago, 1 file, 4+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/de87d9832f01 11:02:49 PF just randomly deprecated it one day 11:03:08 I wonder if that was accidental 11:03:10 Hmm 11:03:15 I wonder if you're supposed to use KFEAT 11:03:24 since the commit message only mentions the orcish idol part of the commit 11:03:32 yeah I don't know why that was added 11:04:51 Alright, updated the glyph. While I'm at it too, we'll add random altars to the gen 11:04:54 *editor 11:05:44 transporters are another thing you could add, but those require a marker and I'm not sure how feasible it is to add them 11:06:11 there are probably bigger priorities anyhow 11:06:20 %git 54f6eed 11:06:21 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-3921-g54f6eed: Temporarily restore bad traps to vaults 10(3 years, 1 month ago, 3 files, 39+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/54f6eedbba5f 11:06:30 Yeah, I want to add basic glyphs and then move onto more extensive functionality 11:06:38 this editor is partially out of date too 11:07:01 it seems to have been intentional as there was some (confusing) discussion about traps right before the commit, it sounds like the algorithm used by ^ is bad 11:07:20 ah, that would make more sense 11:07:34 !source random_vault_trap 11:07:34 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/traps.cc#L1665 11:08:28 there's a separate one for ~, which isn't explicitly marked as bad in the code 11:08:28 I guess ideally we'd remove mechanical traps from those random trap functions 11:13:22 alright. Random altars are in 11:15:25 Hmm... next, I need a validation check. If this is an arrival vault, it needs to have an upper staircase 11:15:35 I guess a full lua vm wouldn't be necessary if commonly used things had a stand-in 11:15:43 e.g. fog machines 11:16:39 yeah, we'll get there. 11:16:40 really if you want accurate rendering some integration with crawl itself would probably be best 11:16:47 How does the "B" glyph work? 11:17:41 for accurate rendering, you could copy how webtiles does things 11:17:52 for a vault-editor it's probably not totally necessary though 11:20:01 oh, speaking of licenses, anything I have to do to use a js library on webtiles? 11:23:43 OK, so I added the validation check for arrival vaults, but there's still a tricky bug 11:25:58 currently webtiles uses requirejs so youd have to hook new libraries through that i think 11:26:40 if you mean legally though i don't have any idea 11:28:05 yeah, legally; it's MIT so it should be fine to just drop in afaik 11:32:18 also, I may have asked this before, but is there any webtiles browser analytics data available? wondering what CSS features I can use 11:39:29 how to auth my username? 11:40:11 /msg nickserv help 11:40:29 -!- rangerofthewest_ is now known as rangerofthewest 11:40:38 REGISTER 11:41:04 still getting the hang of this 11:41:39 ok, we're good 11:44:22 Making minor tweaks and stuff to the vault editor. Good progress - arrival vaults should now be appropriately validated 11:45:12 all the basic glyphs are now in the vault editor 11:45:29 aside from A and B 12:02:43 Alright. I added programmable tiles for the sake of substitution 12:08:44 Hey aidanh, the bug that you recently fixed https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11390#c32094 still exists for god ability descriptions on web tiles. I just tested on trunk with a beserker combo and the description ability for beserk does not show 12:09:08 I did not want to start spamming with new bug trackers so thought I'd just mention it here, since it's very similar or related to the last issue it seems 12:09:15 I was sure I checked that.. 12:09:19 let me look 12:09:25 oh, unless CBRO trunk is not completely up to date 12:09:27 then maybe it's me 12:11:22 working on adding KFEAT support 12:11:28 I gotta go get on the road, my apologies if it's me just being stupid :D. Thanks for looking and the fast response~! 12:12:01 droogie: the last rotatell announcement I saw was a while ago, so it probably just hasn't updated yet 12:12:17 ^versions 12:13:39 &version cbro 12:13:44 cbro: 0.22-a0-224-g8cf3520 12:14:10 yep, the bugfix was -228- 12:15:10 my bad~ thanks guys 12:19:52 KFEAT is almost done 12:22:53 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.22-a0-228-g3692b99 (34) 12:25:38 alrighty this was exciting 12:25:39 KFEAT is added 12:29:28 does crawl try to ignore numlock when handling numpad keys? non-numlock home, end, pgup, pgdn keys move diagonally 12:30:07 I'm just excited KFEAT is working now 12:30:50 crawl is supposed to let you use the numpad to move regardless of your numlock status, i'm pretty sure 12:30:59 would be pretty annoying for mac users otherwise, for example 12:31:53 if it overrides the numlock state in text input settings that's a more serious issue 12:32:45 "text input settings" meaning "the times that you're doing text input," not "options about text input," stupid ambiguous words 12:34:36 right, thanks, that explains a lot of the weird keymapping stuff webtiles is doing 12:35:30 it looks like those keys are mapped directly to commands, so there's no need to convert it client-side in webtiles 12:37:41 I'd appreciate it if someone could test the latest build of the vault editor 12:37:51 the transform tab doesn't work, but the other features *should* be working 12:39:43 upload it somewhere and post a link; I'll have a look at some point 12:40:07 It's web-based - https://crawlerofthewest.github.io/vault 12:53:29 I'm excited about this dungeon editor, but some of these features are tricky 13:10:24 Alright. Other features for the vault editor? 13:15:52 everyone here is probably busy with things of their own; you could post it on ##crawl or tavern, might get some feedback there 13:21:39 Nemelex Card Power Documentation Request 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11393 by amaril 13:52:16 Where might I find a list of all the tile_names 13:54:26 rltiles/dc-*.txt is what defines a mapping from a filename to a define from which those names are derived 13:54:45 they get a prefix added like dngn_ or mons_ I think 13:55:36 alright. Just trying to add a dropdown of all the tiles for the vault editor 13:55:52 is there a way to force butchering religion-forbidden corpses (e.g. under TSO)? 13:55:55 I can't find one 14:05:11 and, I guess, should there be a way 14:08:29 %git dac414d 14:08:30 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.19-a0-1065-gdac414d: Disallow butchering forbidden corpses (Arrhythmia) 10(1 year, 7 months ago, 1 file, 7+ 26-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dac414d021f6 14:08:36 seems to have removed that possibility 14:11:40 maybe just change it to is_forbidden_food && !starving 14:12:10 yeah, I guess starving tso chars are out of luck at the moment 14:14:01 I have regrets about what I'm doing 14:14:50 I just wish there was an easier way to copy the data I needed 14:21:47 rangerofthewest: your best bet is probably to write a script that processes the dc-* files 14:22:21 I know... it's just a matter of how much effort do I want into automating something I'm half done with 15:03:57 -!- rangerofthewest_ is now known as rangerofthewest 15:51:58 alright. I'm taking a break from the vault editor 15:52:05 it's very functional and very useful in its current state 16:06:04 I lied. I'm working on shuffle 16:15:00 Imdi (L16 MiBe) ERROR in 'libutil.cc' at line 367: screen write out of bounds: (1,740451683) into (80,24) (D:8) 16:20:55 that's a pretty wide line 16:26:58 Autofight asks for confirmation of barehanded attack when no enemy in range 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11394 by MainiacJoe 16:44:45 lol I just found a goto 16:47:38 looks like there are 28 in crawl, not counting json.cc or prebuilt/ 16:48:09 then soon there will be 27 16:48:09 actually one of those is a comment in libw32.cc 16:48:15 so, 27 going on 26 16:48:31 pity, too late to add it to ??27 if you're removing one 16:48:48 just finished getting shuffle working on the map editor 16:48:48 there's still at least a few minutes until I commit 16:49:19 there are two more finnicky transforms I need to add 16:54:23 b6 of the vault editor getting pushed 17:04:01 Trove ask for randard spellbook 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11395 by sanka 17:11:55 hah, good bug 17:12:38 The traditional disdain for how the previous programmer of this project designed his HTML tables is settling in 17:12:48 No close tags whatsoever :S 17:13:15 I'm sure nooodl didn't play by the rules 17:13:27 No close tags. 17:13:36 I just spent thirty minutes trying to figure out why this wouldn't format right 17:14:18 Oh well. At least I got shuffle working 17:28:41 -!- Euph0ria is now known as EuphOria 17:29:18 To add to bug report 0011382 Ophan holy clouds ignore scarf cloud immunity. 17:30:30 I've never seen a community where it is impossible to contribute to bug reports... Can't you allow anonymous posts on mantis? 17:30:40 we have a problem with new user registrations at the moment, noneofinterest 17:31:07 they've been disabled due to problems with spam registration since our tavern forum and mantis share the same login database 17:31:26 so normally you could register and add a note 17:31:34 !bug 11382 17:31:34 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11382 17:32:14 there may be an small edge case with new spell library. If you are worshipping Veh, and you pick up a book with god-gift spell already offered. If you leave Veh, it might not end up in library. 17:32:37 yeah, your bug would seem to be not directly related to this 17:32:57 I can add a bug report for this though 17:33:21 actually if you like, you can report this as a new issue on github 17:33:26 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/issues 17:33:54 feel free to report bugs there until we can get the login problem addressed 17:34:27 don't you require a push request to submit on there? 17:35:10 no, issues are a reporting feature of github 17:35:16 it does require a github login I think 17:35:27 It does require a github login 17:36:20 Alright, b7 will allow you to download your .des files 17:53:33 rangerofthewest: it works http://i.imgur.com/6yDigau.png 17:54:09 Awesome. If you just built it, you should be able to download it, otherwise, just copy the text 17:54:25 @rumflump 17:56:11 Programmable tiles don't work yet, but I guess that's next 17:57:04 rumflump: also that's a nasty vault you got there :P 18:14:16 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 18:17:31 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.22-a0-228-g3692b995fa (34) 18:23:45 Not sure what else to add today 18:35:12 back at it today, (windows 7, msys2) started from scratch and followed directions from quickstart and install quite meticulously and still hitting the following: https://i.imgur.com/r1aB0PB.png 18:35:50 supposedly this is an old error and shouldn't happen if everything is up-to-date which i am as far as i know... pretty stumped =/ 18:44:01 considering having doors crush inedible corpses if there's nowhere to push them to (which is a rare but possible corner case), but that has a weird interaction with some god conducts 18:44:09 maybe I should just leave this part of it alone 18:44:38 Realzy: you should be able to make it build for you by adding "#define HAVE_XINPUT_GAMEPAD_EX" and "#define HAVE_XINPUT_STATE_EX" to the SDL_xinput.h file that is in the contrib directory 18:44:58 at the path indicated by the error 18:47:07 okay advil i will try that 18:47:28 it's a known msys2 compilation bug with current dcss/msys2 (I think you've just asked when no one who knows the current workaround is around, sorry) 18:55:21 a bit deeper than that. iirc: came up with workaround, committed it, found what appeared to be the same fix upstream, updated submodule... problem still happening. Nobody currently knows the answer. 18:55:40 aside from that hack, where it;s unclear why the hack works and the upstream "fix" doesn;t 18:56:33 ...oh. right. HAVE_*. submodule is post-"configure". 18:56:38 03wheals02 07* 0.22-a0-229-g59181c3: Don't request books for troves (#11395). 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/59181c3eb7c7 18:57:14 er, post-"autoconf". because it's a release image, and maybe intended for systems that might not *have* configure 19:09:46 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.22-a0-229-g59181c3eb7 (34) 19:10:30 Advil: that worked, thanks a ton. basically a week of google and plenty of runaround trying to solve that... 19:10:57 it's with the tiles build only, for what it's worth 19:11:06 it would be tiles-only, yeah 19:11:11 it's a bug related specifically to SDL 19:11:31 we tried to upgrade the SDL module to fix this but it turns out it didn't even fix it 19:12:12 well I say 'tried', but we actually did upgrade SDL contrib, yet it didn't fix that problem 19:12:47 Have you posted the design information for this to tavern or anywhere else for people to see, Realz? 19:13:12 good to get that out there sooner rather than later if you have a writeup 19:20:12 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 19:25:58 gammafunk: "design information for this" - for what ? 19:26:28 for your project 19:26:35 03advil02 07* 0.22-a0-230-g17e5181: Update sdl2 contrib (maybe fixing XINPUT errors on msys2) 10(40 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/17e5181afb10 19:26:48 I have not posted anything yet, no 19:26:48 you mentioned something about coding a thing you were designing 19:27:00 I did! I'm surprised you remember that =) 19:27:08 but if there are any red flags with the design, it's good to find those before you code is basically what I mean 19:27:20 Fair, true 19:27:40 but yeah, just a suggestion of course 19:27:55 hooray, mingw compilation restored? 19:28:02 maybe 19:28:07 I haven't actually tested it on mingw yet 19:28:28 ooh, would be easy to test with basic cross-compilation 19:28:38 although I don't know if I have the right version 19:28:40 At a minimum, my intentions are to familiarize myself with the project and how to contribute to it, regardless of whether or not the specifics of what I want to do are well-received by the community such that they have a chance at being tested on master. That would be nice but not the only goal 19:28:42 yeah, probably a good idea 19:28:51 at least to find out if cross-compiling is affected 19:29:24 So I wanted to get started and make a few changes locally before I started talking about something I may not have the skill/experience to do yet 19:29:31 Yeah Realzy, 'test' projects like that can be good ways to get into development 19:30:08 My first submission was super complicate and went through massive simplification before it got into trunk (although this was many years ago) 19:30:36 My day job is that of a game developer, but very specialized in design, without engineering background. My coding experience basically starts and ends with a proprietary scripting tool that was created specifically for the purpose of creating content in the game I make 19:30:36 6.3.0 mingw, so I guess I can try 19:31:17 did I hallucinate a spammy/complaining reddit post this morning that also doesn't appear in the moderation logs? 19:31:24 was that jumping boots gammafunk? 19:31:39 contributing to crawl, a game i much love in my free time, seemed like a good way to expand my skillset (familiarizing with c++, navigating the project, learning how to set up with common tools, etc) 19:32:06 jump attack, which included that, yeah 19:32:06 advil: it got removed or downvoted? 19:32:06 and no you didn't imagine it 19:32:06 I looked in moderation logs and didn't see its removal 19:32:10 oh maybe they could have deleted it themselves 19:32:16 I was wondering, yeah 19:32:24 was it about dream sheep again 19:32:35 it was something to the tune of 19:32:43 "main branch garbage, recommend me a fork" 19:32:46 and no info in post 19:32:55 top notch 19:33:00 unless advil saw a different one than I did 19:33:05 yeah, that's it 19:33:08 how about Cigotuvi's? Can I blame you for that? 19:33:41 am I just another PleasingFungus to you, Lasty 19:34:15 I'm just a simple man looking to unfairly blame for you another's work 19:34:24 currently the people who want to complain about something are complaining about inner flamed sheep removal, so I figured it was about that 19:34:25 Lasty: oh the gripes about javelin minotaurs are real though, so you might want to go into hiding for a bit 19:34:30 hot 19:35:01 I was upset that acrobat amulets weren't badly received so I had to do something 19:35:02 i'm down w/ javelin minos bc it means i have an excuse to not do lab 19:35:18 hellmonk: that's kinda the point 19:35:28 just means I need to buckle down and implement Gauntlet 19:35:31 yeah, so mission sort of accomplished 19:35:42 Desolation of Labyrinth 19:35:46 I watched hellmonk go into doroklohe and immediately leave 19:35:50 gammafunk: where are these complaints? 19:35:53 some people just hate fun 19:36:09 if you want me to do a wizlab probably don't put zot monsters and tomb monsters in the wizlab 19:36:11 Lasty: on discord mostly, "no one will do labs ever again" and the like 19:36:16 haha 19:36:33 Good! People should think twice about the risk for the loot 19:36:33 oh and they yelled at me in ##crawl as well 19:36:44 nice 19:36:56 I got you blamed for something unfairly at least 19:37:46 I think it started when someone said "minos with javs do as much ranged damage as a stone giant" and I questioned if that was the case and then minmay smelled blood 19:38:02 you weak fool!! 19:38:17 yeah, but I'll have my revenge, not sending her the really cool elf picture I found 19:38:17 You should have left the channel right then. 19:38:26 kaboom 19:38:34 that's harsh 19:39:10 hopefully I'll get one in my upcoming HOSk 19:40:10 03advil02 07* 0.22-a0-231-g1b571ea: Remove useless butchering, and improve butchery code 10(3 hours ago, 8 files, 112+ 103-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1b571eadbd45 19:40:27 speaking of removing fun 19:40:33 gammafunk: i have no sense of how long it will take to do the thing I want to do, so when I get a better sense of it, I'll make a tavern post with the paper design 19:40:34 haha 19:40:56 I died in a lab to buffed minos even before the jav buff. There were basilisks involved. 19:41:12 TL;DR is basically, Demigod rework, think like Demonspawn but with revealed god abilities instead of Demonspawn mutations. 19:41:36 Realzy: yeah, only wanted to mention from the standpoint of saving some 'wasted' time coding things that wouldn't get accepted, but as long as you're aware of that 19:41:38 Realzy: I'm a hard veto on that 19:41:42 now we see if I managed not to break anything with that commit, it's sort of amazing how complicated the food code is for what it currently involves 19:41:59 Realzy: I'm a strong proponent of existing demigods 19:42:03 not worried about the 'wasted' time, no worries 19:42:22 sure - why? (Lasty) 19:43:11 advil: oh, nice, I think I messed up my corpse coloring in my RC so that I was butchering a ton of inedible corpses my last game 19:43:22 although I should still fix that, your change will at least prevent that 19:43:27 heh 19:43:39 hm I didn't think about what the lua interface does 19:43:47 Realzy: The brief version is that demigods work well and are interesting as is, and making them similar to demonspawn would remove an interesting species in favor of making a second species in the ds space 19:43:50 wonder if there's still back doors into butchering there 19:44:02 I *did* catch what would've been a back door in local tiles, at least 19:44:04 from an objective standpoint they seem to be unpopular, and they don't interact with one of the most interesting and compelling parts of the game. I'm all for restrictions that can shake things up and make things interesting (like no-potion Mummy), but no god is significantly more extreme, and those that desire that challenge can do so on any species they want 19:45:17 although I'm sort of middle of the road when it comes to liking Dg, wrt what you said about player taking that challenge, Dg aren't quite that simply replaced since they have nice properties to make earlier portions of the game easier and to make it easier to do things like wear more armour and still cast spells 19:45:20 functionally it will be very much unlike demonspawn, and more like a species that worships a random god created from a mish-mash of existing abilities 19:46:08 indeed, from a balancing perspective in order to accomodate such a change, things like starting stats and hp/mp bonuses would probably have to be re-evaluated 19:46:45 Realzy: What does "from an objective standpoint they seem to be unpopular" mean? 19:46:51 yes, that is true, but I was talking about that relative to your idea that Dg are simply replaced by e.g. a human that just worships an athiest 19:46:54 dg are low pickrate i imagine 19:47:08 i remember when i was learning crawl, the description and fantasy associated with being a demigod was awesome, but the mechanical execution didn't line up and was really quite disappointing 19:47:13 fwiw I might be interested in having a system similar to the one you're describing in hellcrawl (it has been suggested a few times by one of my regular players) 19:47:17 er s/worships and atheist/is an atheist/ 19:47:29 Realzy: I think it will help you to partition out two things: arguments against Dg, and arguments for your new hypothetical species that could be called Dg 19:47:30 though hellcrawl does not have dg as such any more 19:47:39 advil: +1 19:48:06 hellmonk: you cut Dg? :( 19:48:13 merged with old og 19:48:37 ah, still atheist? 19:48:40 yes 19:48:40 btw this idea for Dg is something similar to one dpeg had talked about in the past, and he was going to have randomized god powers given to them, but the main challenge is having all these possible god powers implemented and making what powers Dg got be interesting and reasonably balanced 19:48:43 god 19:48:45 er good 19:49:08 atheist large species but ofc retaining the advantages of both, so huge hp and big stats 19:49:10 yep, agree gammafunk 19:49:37 so beyond the issue of current Dg, a major concern is what nature of these revealed powers would be and how much they depend on powers from existing gods as their basis 19:49:48 but yeah hard to say more without the specifics (for that general issue) 19:50:07 yeah, agree, these are things ive thought quite a bit about 19:50:19 I think "random god" is theoretically an interesting territory that's very hard to do well, and it merits investigation. I also think "no god species" is very interesting and in practicce plays well 19:50:22 i think i have a reasonable path 19:51:28 yeah, in regular crawl I definitely think you'd be talking about "new species" territory or some sort of spinoff of the religion system rather than replacing dg 19:51:58 but the idea itself is worth exploring 19:52:06 one thing to keep in mind is that if your powers depend on existing powers from existing gods in some way, you introduce some potentially really awful dependancy where any tweak to any god is a tweak to an entire species 19:52:19 lastly, i would propose that the fantasy of demigod is a mismatch with its current mechanical identity, and my proposed may match much better in which case it's the "no god" species that should be looking for a new species/title that isn't Demigod 19:52:48 By lastly do you mean as a final proposal, or do you mean my username, which is just Lasty? 19:53:07 addressing you (not as a final proposal) 19:53:30 Lastly, and at last, Lasty 19:53:34 haha 19:53:37 lol 19:54:10 I like to be clear that my name isn't Lastly, because that name sounds pompous 19:54:26 muscle memory... qq, sorry 19:55:58 no worries :) 19:55:59 ok i have a really good idea, make demigods this realzy proposal, then make a new atheist conduct species called golem that is also the no equipment species, then remove felid 19:56:51 what do you have against felid D= 19:57:02 I just don't like playing them 19:58:01 Realzy: people assert that at times, but I don't see it myself. I think the current demigod flavor fits just fine, and if some people have a distinct idea of what a demigod is, I'm fine with crawl challenging them to visualize it differently. 19:59:24 hellmonk: can we then also remove golems, because no equipmemt species skip one of the significant fun aspects of crawl, namely loot as a reward/lottery? 19:59:32 sure 19:59:35 you do you 20:00:40 yeah, think greek demigods / hemitheoi (like heracles), not dnd demigods 20:01:42 I'm going off the crawl descriptions and I'm largely unfamiliar with dnd's execution of the concept 20:03:39 "Demigods refuse to worship any god, but make up for this with divine attributes 20:03:39 and high reserves of health and magic."? 20:05:21 perhaps this isn't official? "Demigods are mortals with some divine or angelic ancestry, however distant; they can be created by a number of processes, including magical experiments and the time-honoured practice of interplanar miscegenation. Demigods look more or less like members of their mortal part's species, but have excellent attributes (Str, Int, Dex) and are extremely robust; they can also draw on great supplies of magical 20:05:40 "On the downside, they advance more slowly in experience than any other race, gain skills slightly less quickly than Humans and, due to their status, cannot worship the various gods and powers available to other races." 20:06:53 ah, that's in the manual 20:07:57 but I'm not sure that oversells anything 20:08:49 it's not a "problem" necessarily, but I do think there's room for the fantasy and fun, re: demigod, to be amped up. That's all really 20:09:07 it oversells their robustness I guess? +10% hp with a mediocre fighting apt and a bad exp apt is above average but not "extremely robust" 20:09:53 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.22-a0-231-g1b571eadbd (34) 20:12:54 Realzy: it sounds like the argument here is "I would like it to be different," which is fine, but not particularly compelling for someone whose sense is "I would like it to stay the same" 20:13:11 from a pure game design perspective i have a great deal of experience, it's my day job, and i guess all i'm hoping for is open minds on that front. Regardless of outcome, the implementation challenge is equally important 20:13:35 yeah, this is why disentangling the positive proposal from anything about demigods is probably going to be helpful 20:13:47 this discussion about demigods comes and goes, fwiw 20:14:31 Realzy: I don't think the argument from expertise is going to make a lot of waves here. 20:15:00 specifically the suggestion of giving them god abilities has come up and been rejected a huge number of times yeah 20:15:08 but I absolutely you in creating a fun experience involving randomized powers 20:15:09 and i don't see any reason why that would change now 20:15:30 Realzy: I also have a great deal of experience in game design and I think your idea is bad 20:16:06 I do tend to have bad ideas sometimes minmay, so i'll certainly consider that as a possiblity =) 20:17:29 i'm surprised you can come to such a conclusion so definitively though, and if there is an easy way to describe the ways in which it is bad, i'd appreciate the opportunity to be enlightened 20:20:28 if you search demigod on the tavern (and probably the devwiki and other discussion locations) you'll find multiple threads with reasons for it being rejected in the past over the years 20:20:41 Realzy: if you're going to make Dg participate in the god system by having abilities/piety/etc. then there is no point in it existing as a species at all, instead of just adding a new god with that piety system/abilities 20:20:48 tho they're mostly longer versions of the conversations we just had 20:20:49 a good summary is that their whole design is being godless so- yes what minmay said 20:20:56 if not worshipping a god isn't interesting enough then Dg should just be removed 20:23:43 minmay: i think you're spot-on that, functionally, to a discerning individual it's not so different than being "zealot, the species" and being forced to worship a single god. But I do think it's miles different in terms of the fantasy, and how it would be received by the majority of players 20:23:47 but I don't think that's really the case; maybe in the future if god choice gets more difficult 20:26:19 Realzy: it seems like you're asserting that the majority of players agree with you, but I haven't seen evidence that that is accurate. 20:27:11 I agree, it's a proposal and would require playtesting and iteration among players to confirm, or otherwise 20:27:28 (and also even if it was, it wouldn't matter since crawl isn't designed by popular vote) 20:27:42 true 20:27:45 very true 20:29:11 yeah, I'd tend to grant the premise that Dg doesn't get played as much as some other things, but that's not an argument for changing them 20:29:15 !lg * t s=crace 20:29:16 83707 games for * (t): 8351x Minotaur, 8218x Demonspawn, 6173x Gnoll, 6117x Gargoyle, 4720x Hill Orc, 4472x Octopode, 4164x Draconian, 3712x Deep Elf, 3530x Ghoul, 3003x Troll, 2781x Formicid, 2752x Vine Stalker, 2548x Merfolk, 2383x Spriggan, 2355x Human, 2275x Tengu, 2035x Deep Dwarf, 1785x Barachi, 1651x Vampire, 1629x Kobold, 1546x Mummy, 1508x Felid, 1369x Ogre, 1294x Centaur, 1175x Naga, 108... 20:29:42 well, ok, they are 2nd to last, with halflings in last place 20:30:03 remove halfling in 0.22 confirmed? 20:30:25 heh remove last place species every release confirmed? 20:30:47 each crawl release requires a blood sacrifice 20:30:51 interesting that filtering for tournament games makes minotaur and demonspawn switch places 20:31:20 oh i should update my branch to rename them to goblins 20:31:45 you better act fast, MarvinPA, since there's that goblin proposal on tavern that's making waves... 20:31:45 that counts as removing them and then adding a new species, clearly 20:32:26 the one where someone asked Implojin if he's ever played crawl, which I quite enjoyed 20:32:44 mmm 20:33:23 can someone link me to a guide for hello kitty island adventure 20:33:23 i think all i'd picked up from skimming that was that they couldn't read scrolls, looking at it properly now i see it's definitely a Tavern Species Proposal 20:33:43 gammafunk: haha, indeed, that was special 20:34:07 well asked and then started splaining crawl to implojin 20:43:18 tavernsplaining 20:50:28 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 20:52:42 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 21:27:21 MarvinPA: the original thread that was the base for gnolls was essentially a Tavern Species Proposal, who knows? 21:37:26 Floodkiller: gnolls were hardly the first species that got in and that was initially posted to tavern 21:37:54 what he is talking about is what a typical tavern species proposal looks like 21:38:49 I think Floodkiller means that too 21:39:47 I think MarvinPA means that as well! 21:39:56 EVERYONE AGREES! 21:41:35 Don't ask anyone to go easy on Tavern Species Proposals, trust me 21:41:42 it's not healthy for Tavern Species Proposals 21:41:57 let's just call them TSP from now on 21:42:19 call them TP 21:42:33 idgi 21:42:42 (yes i do) 21:44:20 my moon troll species proposal can just stay in my 'lore/ideas.txt' file, I guess 21:45:39 just respond to every thread by exhorting statue form 21:45:51 of chei 21:48:37 moon troll was a dcss ca species 21:48:44 gammafunk stealing more ideas 21:48:45 that figures 21:48:53 I invented the moon troll!!! 21:49:46 !lg * map=wizlab_lehudib s=cikiller 21:49:47 194 games for * (map=wizlab_lehudib): 51x a moon troll, 37x a stone giant, 17x a very ugly thing, 14x a lunar statue, 13x a quicksilver dragon, 9x a war gargoyle, 8x a crystal guardian, 8x a tentacled starspawn, 7x an eye of devastation, 7x a glowing orange brain, 7x a starcursed mass, 4x a giant orange brain, 3x an ugly thing, 2x the player character, 2x a cacodemon, a great orb of eyes, a player... 21:49:59 deadlier than a thousand stone giants... 21:51:21 intrinsics salad, XL10 hp/mp at XL1, almost no hp/mp growth 21:52:11 er, mutations. wrong game. mutations salad. 22:12:43 gammafunk: or minotaurs with javelins 22:15:44 Lasty: maybe I need to make a minotaur transporter vault now 22:15:50 minotaurs behind deep water 22:18:20 I was so moved by that suggestion that i had to leave for a moment 22:24:43 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 23:04:34 fr: rotate the moon troll with lehudib's crystal hydra