00:15:05 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.22-a0-159-g7ce444f (34) 01:25:22 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.22-a0-159-g7ce444f (34) 01:57:02 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.22-a0-159-g7ce444f 02:54:44 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.22-a0-159-g7ce444f 03:17:04 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.22-a0-159-g7ce444f (34) 05:11:12 krabocopter (L12 GnWn) ASSERT(sel.size() == 1) in 'spl-book.cc' at line 737 failed. (Lair:3) 09:33:01 !crashlog 09:33:09 18828. krabocopter, XL12 GnWn, T:10433 (milestone): https://underhound.eu/crawl/morgue/krabocopter/crash-krabocopter-20180209-101109.txt 10:30:38 there continues to be some mysterious way to do multiple selection in menus in webtiles 10:39:46 do any of the servers record the websocket traffic? 10:40:05 I don't think so 10:40:14 there's an awful lot of it 10:40:36 if you want to see it it's easy enough to look at locally using browser dev tools 10:40:50 it's mostly map data that's basically uninterpretable though 10:41:45 I was thinking more like recording the last n messages for debugging purposes 10:42:22 oh...the crashlogs sometimes have some of it, though I'm not actually sure what governs that (e.g. that last log didn't have any) 10:43:19 the webtiles message buffer + json stack sections? 10:43:52 that's presumably for unsent messages and partially constructed messages, respectively 10:50:51 aidanh: I'm not sure if you can do that with the dev tools 10:51:08 aidanh: you could use something like beem or my webtiles "library" if you want to see the messages 10:51:19 enabling debug mode will show you them in detail 10:51:43 but I'd not be surprised if there's a way to show the frames in e.g. chrome 10:52:22 if you want to play with e.g. beem, you can set the debug level to 10 in the config and just have it spectate a game and then do stuff 10:52:41 there are probably more reasonable ways to show the debugging by inserting things on the JS side in the app though 10:54:24 I've looked at the json traffic in both chrome and firefox before iirc 10:54:24 there's a debugging view in chrome, yeah, but I was thinking that capturing a log could help debug these sorts of bugs 10:54:43 since it would show what input the menu received to get it into that state 10:54:53 well, in my experience it's not very easy to work with because of the map data 10:55:08 it's hard to find anything specific you're looking for 10:56:45 yeah, makes sense 10:57:52 hm I should have some examples somewhere of a json bug I once tried to debug 10:57:55 wonder where I put those 11:08:19 beem's debug output will show you the uncompressed json messages (compression is only done in one direction for webtiles) 11:08:43 but you could probably just rig something up fairly quickly by modifying the app javascript 11:09:01 have it print the decompressed json messages somewhere 11:14:28 does it mention anywhere that gargoyles can fly without any increase or decrease in any stat? 11:15:03 as in they don't have increased evasion but also don't have decreased strength or something. they are just the same, just as effective in all skills when flying 11:15:35 it should be mentioned in their ability page, or in general flight's description, that flight has no affect on evasion/dexterity 11:15:58 ofcourse they can avoid the effects of shallow water on their EV,dex/whatever 11:16:07 well, it's really Te that's the special case, not gargoyle 11:16:36 advil: Te? 11:16:41 tengu 11:16:53 advil: oh so tengus gain some kind of bonus from flying? 11:16:58 ??te 11:16:58 tengu[1/6]: Basically humanoid with bird-like heads and clawed feet, the Tengu can wear all types of armour except helmets and boots. Gets temporary flight (with refractory period) at XL5, perm flight at XL14. While flying from any source, has +20% evasion and a -1 to movement delay. 11:17:00 they are the only case where that's true 11:17:13 in fact if you didn't know that I'm not sure why you'd have expected Gr to :) 11:17:36 i mean in general one may think that if one is hovering in mid air others find it harder to hit him/her 11:18:54 so it should be mentioned that flight doesn't affect evasion. as a new player i've been tempted to quaff potions of flight before heavy fights. 11:19:11 but asking on ##crawl found out it doesn't affect any fighting stat. or any stat at all. 11:20:19 hmm...here's the description for flight in the instructions: "You fly above the ground, and are able to cross water and lava or fight above 11:20:19 shallow water without penalties. Most types of flight will time out – be sure you're not above deadly liquids when that happens!" 11:23:33 advil: without penalties i think means that without the penalties associated with reduction in EV when fighting in shallow water 11:23:52 but what about a line mentioning 'without any effect on stats' 11:23:57 yes, that's correct 11:24:01 of course written in a more literary way 11:26:20 well, perhaps it's because I've been playing this game too long, but I'm not quite sure where the expectation that there be some additional effect comes from 11:26:39 (any effect would show up as blue stat numbers in the hud, too) 11:27:58 advil: yeah i guess quaffing potions and stuff anyway show status messages such as 'you feel your strikes are more powerful' or 'you feel you are harder to hit in mid-air' 11:28:53 I guess one idea would be to make the actual potion of flight description more explicit 11:29:00 but i personally was under the impression flight makes me harder to hit, since people have to reach upwards, which is tiring and slower and a bunch of other real-world changes to attack patters (generally in the flyers favour) 11:29:02 since probably no one ever looks up the flight status 11:29:31 advil: where would that be? flight status, under which key, % or A ? 11:29:55 flight status is the description I quoted above, you can search for it with ?/ 11:31:01 potion of flight description just says, "A potion which confers great buoyancy on one who consumes it." 11:32:00 oh so by status you meant description 11:32:17 well it still doesn't say anything about stat bonus (or lack thereof). that could be made clearer. 11:32:27 (in my humble opinion. devs know best) 11:38:15 so a general interface convention in dcss that may be helpful to know, is that when a status is temporarily increasing some stat, that stat number will be colored blue 11:39:31 so if flight were to affect EV, you'd expect EV to be colored blue 11:39:52 (n.b. that actually *doesn't* happen for tengu flight, because it's more permanent, but tengu instead have their flight status in % reported as "flying quickly and evasively") 11:41:14 i understand that about the blue stat and thanks for telling me about tenu description. 11:42:04 so from lack of a blue stat i should, as a new player, know that flying won't affect my evasion. that still means i will have to waste a potion of flying before knowing it doesn't affect evasion/speed. 11:42:34 so just as tengu states 'quickly and evasively', maybe flight description could say 'it doesn't affect your movement speed. it doesn't affect your evasion.' or an even more blanket statement, it doesn't affect any stat. 11:42:44 I'm a bit hesitant to try to start listing all the things that particular statuses *don't* do :) 11:43:04 since I think, if anything, the manual implies that it does nothing except let you move without penalty over water/lava 11:43:14 the learndb entry is also similar 11:43:16 ??flight 11:43:16 flight[1/3]: A status effect that allows you to move over deep water and lava. Removes the shallow water movement/attack/invisibility penalties, and reduces damage you take from Shatter. Monster airstrike will deal extra damage to you, however. Appears in potion and ring form. Gr, Te, and Black Dr can fly as a racial mutation. Was a spell until 0.17. 11:43:58 okay so lack of something means it doesn't do that. makes sense. 11:44:16 I do agree that the description of a potion of flight (which is probably the most obvious thing a new player would look at to try to understand flight) is pretty underspecified 11:45:12 probably if a potion conveys a particular status, the potion should have a description of that status that's comparable to the entry for the status itself 11:45:31 since it's not as if we have hyperlinks in game 11:46:41 advil: the ?/ system is pretty good but it isn't obvious that flight is a status. i looked for it in (F)eature first. 11:47:22 thanks for replying to my queries! 11:47:58 anything that appears in the status line you can look up that way (so I guess the proper name for it is "Fly", which also works in ?/) 12:11:33 In ?? (command keys) G (or shift g) is listed for 'interlevel travel' but Ctrl-G also works. 12:13:09 that is not listed. however, for 'long walk' and 'attack without move' both the possible key commands are listed. 12:13:20 so Ctrl-G should be added for 'interlevel travel' imho 12:14:33 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.22-a0-159-g7ce444f (34) 12:33:08 -!- Amnesiac_ is now known as Amnesiac 13:01:44 !whichrole Dr 13:01:46 340 recent wins: 49x Transmuter, 48x Fire Elementalist, 33x Conjurer, 22x Ice Elementalist, 22x Wanderer, 17x Berserker, 15x Monk, 15x Venom Mage, 15x Air Elementalist, 11x Earth Elementalist, 11x Abyssal Knight, 10x Artificer, 9x Wizard, 9x Chaos Knight, 8x Warper, 8x Summoner, 7x Fighter, 6x Necromancer, 6x Gladiator, 5x Skald, 5x Assassin, 4x Hunter, 3x Enchanter, 2x Arcane Marksman 13:02:00 ??transmuter 13:02:00 transmuter[1/2]: Transmuters can cause strange changes in themselves, others, and things. Starts with the {Book of Changes} and some skill in unarmed combat and {transmutations}. 13:02:11 ??transmuter[2 13:02:11 transmuter[2/2]: http://i.imgur.com/niZYV1z.png 13:09:04 oh shit, sorry, wrong channel 13:20:33 um... 15:38:43 advil: now i realize why you didn't want to list what potions don't do. the UV4 guide says there are over 9000 statuses in crawl :-) noone can list those. 15:40:32 wait is that a joke... this is why i want an official guide instead of third party. i just did ?/T all and it shows around 40 statuses. 15:41:54 over 9000 is a joke yes 15:42:38 how do i list all possible items in a list in the help lookup? such as if i want to list all spells how do i do that? 15:43:05 i just realized that 'all' was read as a regexp and the items being displayed were containing the phrase 'all' 15:54:34 say i want a description to be changed. where do I submit the proposed change? i'd like to help out with the english in crawl 16:58:35 <|amethyst> dds1: easiest would be to make a pull request on github... I think the UI even lets you "edit" a file and turn your edit into a PR with a click or two 16:59:39 <|amethyst> dds1: descriptions are under crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/ and some other text (speech, randart names, help, etc) is under crawl-ref/source/dat/database/ 19:00:02 anyone know the most direct way to modify log messages before they're printed via RC lua? 19:34:55 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 22:10:47 -!- Tickenest_ is now known as Tickenest 22:37:08 !tell gammafunk thanks for the info; I'll play around with beem when I eventually get around to hacking on the webtiles UI... one of these days... 22:37:09 aidanh: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 22:42:15 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 23:47:08 03Aidan Holm02 07* 0.22-a0-160-gcc81d7a: Use travel keys for ?/B menu entries 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cc81d7a59f02 23:59:44 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.22-a0-160-gcc81d7a (34)