00:23:10 -!- WalkerBoh is now known as Walker 00:55:47 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 00:56:02 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 01:20:24 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-584-g185da8e (34) 02:01:04 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-584-g185da8e 02:55:10 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-584-g185da8e 02:57:57 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 03:00:10 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 03:11:40 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.21-a0-584-g185da8e (34) 04:10:24 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 04:30:24 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 06:00:04 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 09:29:33 goodreddit: "Like favourite musical era, everyone's favourite version is the one they first ascended in. Everything previous was weird and baroque and overly complex, everything since is streamlined to the point of absurdity." 09:33:05 ok, so I just don't think the strategy of disabling mantis/tavern account creation when anything goes wrong is sustainable 09:33:21 it would be good to have some kind of alternative to that strategy 09:36:40 imo the best alternative is to accept that some amount of spam is going to make it through, but have some people who will be able to be reactive to that on the technical side 09:37:22 my impression is that we don't have that right now, right? 09:38:28 <|amethyst> advil: the problem is that only napkin has admin access, because cdo is a shared server with other sites he hosts 09:38:37 yes, I realize 09:38:45 but it puts us in kind of a bind 09:38:56 who has the ability to manually create an account? 09:39:00 can we expand that list? 09:39:01 <|amethyst> hm 09:39:04 <|amethyst> not sure about that 09:39:08 <|amethyst> hell, I might 09:39:10 heh 09:40:13 Wrong message when lightning rod regains charge 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11331 by ldf 09:41:16 Hm... what's the general stance on removing functionality for the sake of code tidying? 09:41:26 maybe we can just accept github issues as a backup to mantis 09:41:38 depends on the functionality :) 09:42:09 though I can warn you that crawl is such that nearly any functionality will have someone who complains if you remove it 09:42:21 that's why we have approx 1e9 options 09:42:23 I'd like to remove the process_description<> template monstrosity 09:42:59 it drops parts of the description if they won't all fit in the area 09:43:30 wrapping+ellipsizing the text is easy, but it won't have that prioritization aspect 09:43:47 <|amethyst> aren't you working on making the relevant things scrollable? 09:43:55 <|amethyst> in which case, there's no need to drop part of the description 09:44:22 I have to admit I've never even looked at that class 09:44:24 <|amethyst> oh, I guess there are things like tiles hover descriptions 09:44:36 it's the hover descriptions, yeah, and nothing else 09:44:42 it seems to only ever be used as process_description 09:45:23 New branch created: pull/677 (3 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/677 09:45:23 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/677 * 0.21-a0-584-g6704a77: Add formatted_string::chop_bytes() 10(80 minutes ago, 2 files, 23+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6704a77a6f72 09:45:23 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/677 * 0.21-a0-585-g3304114: Fix word-wrapping of text with embedded newlines 10(6 weeks ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3304114a00cd 09:45:23 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/677 * 0.21-a0-586-g6367df0: Fix word-wrapping pt 2: short strings 10(78 minutes ago, 1 file, 23+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6367df00b7d8 09:46:02 the relevant things are all scrollable, but scrollable descriptions are still piped through this template, with fake UI size info 09:48:02 <|amethyst> aidanh: hm, I realize the original was definitely wrong, but 09:48:35 <|amethyst> aidanh: in that call to chop_bytes, or rather in the place that calculates the ellipsis position, is it possible that happens in the middle of a character? 09:49:43 you mean the line_end-2? yes, it might, I suppose 09:49:50 <|amethyst> yeah 09:50:49 <|amethyst> cutting off more characters than needed because one is double-wide, or too few because one is zero-width, isn't so bad (it's just visual); but creating invalid UTF-8 seems like a problem 09:52:49 <|amethyst> could just have it step back until it finds the start of a character 09:52:57 <|amethyst> which is pretty easy to detect in UTF-8 09:53:21 <|amethyst> there's still the possibility that it doesn't cut off enough characters and the ellipses wrap 09:53:22 thank goodness for prev_glyph() 09:53:26 <|amethyst> oh, nice 09:54:08 <|amethyst> FR: convert everything to u32string internally 09:58:22 <|amethyst> I guess you could probably handle fullwidth/zerowidth characters too, by calling prev_glyph in a loop until you have a total wcwidth of 2 09:59:25 <|amethyst> I remember wrestling with this when making the line editor handle fullwidth characters 09:59:40 <|amethyst> (I don't think I ever tested with zero-width characters though) 09:59:57 I was just going to call it twice, or until the beginning of the line was reached 10:00:20 <|amethyst> that's probably good enough 10:00:34 <|amethyst> it has problems with zero-width characters but we tend not to use those 10:13:30 <|amethyst> hmm, that no_item_gen kmask in hall_of_Zot isn't quite right 10:14:06 <|amethyst> because kmask is applied after all substitutions, but the ! get substituted away to . or ^ 10:14:25 <|amethyst> see https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/7l1p8e/behold_the_lunch_of_zot/ 10:15:20 <|amethyst> (granted, even if it were working right, that just means the ration would not be adjacent to the orb; it could still be elsewhere in the chamber 10:15:23 <|amethyst> ) 10:29:39 <|amethyst> wow, I just got private message spam on reddit. That has never happened to me before 10:30:17 <|amethyst> it's a bunch of random four letter (but not "four-letter") words, the middle half of which is a link to something on twitch.tv 10:32:17 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/677 * 0.21-a0-587-g339e17a: Correctly ellipsize multibyte strings 10(21 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/339e17a9ff83 10:37:09 any thoughts about killing the description collapsing stuff in process_description though? 10:39:46 it's not even considering the body of the description: just prefix, suffix, and footer, which afaict are barely used 10:40:54 <|amethyst> I'd have to see the results I guess 10:41:12 <|amethyst> I'm not too familiar with what does get cut currently 10:41:36 <|amethyst> but in principle, as long as it doesn't result in leaving out important information, it seems reasonable 10:41:49 <|amethyst> since the full information is available easily enough 10:54:26 ok, I went through all the use sites, and the only info added is a prefix for clouds on top of feats/monsters 11:00:01 this prefix is also only ever added on local tiles 11:01:08 so I think I'll remove the prefix entirely, and make tilereg-dgn show info on clouds in a square, if there's nothing else there already 11:04:50 New branch created: notzombiehands (6 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/notzombiehands 11:04:50 03gammafunk02 07[notzombiehands] * 0.21-a0-585-gae416fb: Refactor out an enum and actor property 10(67 minutes ago, 12 files, 35+ 32-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ae416fb40660 11:04:50 03gammafunk02 07[notzombiehands] * 0.21-a0-586-g1a8428b: A Level 5 Necromancy/Earth Spell: Borgnjor's Vile Clutch (mikee) 10(2 hours ago, 36 files, 429+ 162-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1a8428bdbfef 11:04:50 03gammafunk02 07[notzombiehands] * 0.21-a0-587-g45547be: Remove Control Undead 10(2 hours ago, 8 files, 6+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/45547be1f8da 11:04:50 03gammafunk02 07[notzombiehands] * 0.21-a0-588-g18d9738: Remove Cigotuvi's Embrace 10(2 hours ago, 18 files, 9+ 244-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/18d9738913e9 11:04:50 03gammafunk02 07[notzombiehands] * 0.21-a0-589-g2e4914e: Remove the Twisted Resurrection icon 10(66 minutes ago, 4 files, 1+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2e4914e9d88e 11:04:50 03gammafunk02 07[notzombiehands] * 0.21-a0-590-gd4700ec: Remove an old comment 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d4700ec0435e 11:08:24 incoming PR spam 11:09:45 well eventually a PR will show up, if people want to comment about the new spell or those other changes 11:10:07 New branch created: pull/678 (6 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/678 11:10:07 03gammafunk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/678 * 0.21-a0-585-gae416fb: Refactor out an enum and actor property 10(72 minutes ago, 12 files, 35+ 32-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ae416fb40660 11:10:07 03gammafunk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/678 * 0.21-a0-586-g1a8428b: A Level 5 Necromancy/Earth Spell: Borgnjor's Vile Clutch (mikee) 10(2 hours ago, 36 files, 429+ 162-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1a8428bdbfef 11:10:07 03gammafunk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/678 * 0.21-a0-587-g45547be: Remove Control Undead 10(2 hours ago, 8 files, 6+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/45547be1f8da 11:10:07 03gammafunk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/678 * 0.21-a0-588-g18d9738: Remove Cigotuvi's Embrace 10(2 hours ago, 18 files, 9+ 244-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/18d9738913e9 11:10:07 03gammafunk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/678 * 0.21-a0-589-g2e4914e: Remove the Twisted Resurrection icon 10(72 minutes ago, 4 files, 1+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2e4914e9d88e 11:10:07 03gammafunk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/678 * 0.21-a0-590-gd4700ec: Remove an old comment 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d4700ec0435e 11:10:12 I have more testing to do and I think I missed some stuff in des for those removals 12:04:06 The build failed. (notzombiehands - d4700ec #9068 : gammafunk): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/319247584 12:04:55 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.21-a0-584-g185da8e (34) 12:11:07 nice, looks like I have some constrictions bugs to fix 12:12:05 -!- jeefus is now known as jefus 12:49:36 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 12:59:34 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/665 * 0.21-a0-584-g5d627b7: Add formatted_string::chop_bytes() 10(5 hours ago, 2 files, 23+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5d627b7b6f97 12:59:34 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/665 * 0.21-a0-585-g77e3dbf: Fix word-wrapping of text with embedded newlines 10(6 weeks ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/77e3dbf9ca02 12:59:34 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/665 * 0.21-a0-586-gdea3408: Fix word-wrapping pt 2: short strings 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 23+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dea34084bd19 12:59:34 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/665 * 0.21-a0-587-g53dfea6: Correctly ellipsize multibyte strings 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 8+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/53dfea6b1c90 12:59:34 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/665 * 0.21-a0-588-g85a45f6: Don't list removed books in ?/s spell descriptions 10(7 days ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/85a45f6433c2 12:59:34 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/665 * 0.21-a0-589-g2304aad: Make spell memorise text consistent with item actions 10(7 days ago, 1 file, 10+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2304aad3f056 12:59:34 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/665 * 0.21-a0-590-g4f0c58f: Append newline to ?/m titles (for consistency) 10(7 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4f0c58f9b403 12:59:34 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/665 * 0.21-a0-591-gd766e29: Add better alternative to print_description() 10(7 days ago, 2 files, 38+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d766e290e8de 12:59:34 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/665 * 0.21-a0-592-g2d97a5e: Move monster description quote toggle text to bottom 10(7 days ago, 1 file, 12+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2d97a5ef9588 12:59:34 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/665 * 0.21-a0-593-g5a27754: Fix wordwrap on FAQ menu, and support long Q/As 10(7 days ago, 1 file, 6+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5a27754d09ef 12:59:34 ... and 5 more commits 12:59:37 wow, remove control undead. the players will riot 13:06:39 ok, that's the refactor done; process_description<> is gone 13:09:24 turns out the god UI is tricker: the join-religion yesno stuff draws over the UI 13:11:41 gammafunk: i don't have time for a full review of a 400-line diff right now but i'll skim it and leave a few comments 13:50:48 man, rip that code review. i had written a number of comments and then my coworker's dog unplugged my computer 13:51:44 oh no, sweet, chrome saved them all 13:52:07 thanks, google 14:38:04 is mantis new-account creation disabled? i thought it had been re-enabled after we fixed captcha issues 14:38:39 <|amethyst> a big batch of spam accounts got through somehow, so napkin disabled it again 14:40:56 so what do we tell players who want to report bugs? 14:41:01 advil commented on that earlier 14:41:40 <|amethyst> send them to napkin to have an account created I guess? 14:42:07 found that discussion in the logs, thanks geekosaur 14:43:07 maybe a bot to catch issues on GHI, migrate them to mantis, and autoclose them on github with a pointer to the mantis issue. but that still leaves account creation 14:43:34 mantis and tavern accounts should probably be decoupled 14:43:49 New branch created: pull/679 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/679 14:43:49 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/679 * 0.21-a0-585-g9c41cca: Allow cross-level travel to abyss and timed portals 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 20+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9c41cca037aa 14:46:46 i know someone's answered this question before but i don't remember the answer: why do we prefer mantis over github issues? is it just for historical reasons (that's where all our issues are already) or are there important features we need there? 14:47:16 personally i would be happy to have everything on github 14:57:06 <|amethyst> amalloy: mostly historical, but Mantis does have a pretty featureful search. I haven't used github's though 14:57:54 <|amethyst> amalloy: also, I don't know how the issue template thing was resolved on GitHub, but the fact that Mantis lets you add required fields is a plus 14:59:46 i guess github's solution is to have a file named ISSUE_TEMPLATE.md in your repo, and its contents are added to new issues 15:00:16 <|amethyst> amalloy: also, also, the fact that we don't have any control over github (e.g. you can report issues/comments as spam, but AFAIK can't block people yourself) 15:00:50 github's issue tracker is a POS. 15:00:54 https://help.github.com/articles/blocking-a-user-from-your-organization/ 15:01:13 btu there are too many github worshippers whio will immediately declare jihad if you dare say that in front of them 15:01:41 and will do anything possible to ignore you if you point out that github is entirely capable of following gitorious 15:02:04 becaue github is perfect and eternal and they have a permanent guarantee that it can't possibly happen 15:18:18 <|amethyst> yeah, that was definitely part of it 15:18:52 <|amethyst> we started using github exactly because our previous repository host ceased existing 15:23:06 I used gitorious as example for a reason... 18:34:21 03Keskitalo02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/676 * 0.6.0-a1-2593-gd41761d: Add options to control showing the minibars on the player tile. 10(8 years ago, 5 files, 67+ 18-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d41761d0b948 18:34:21 03by02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/676 * 0.6.0-a1-2594-g3167f76: Update message.cc TODO list. 10(8 years ago, 1 file, 1+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3167f76fef4b 18:34:21 03by02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/676 * 0.6.0-a1-2595-g8c596be: Replace print_formatted_paragraph by mpr. 10(8 years ago, 7 files, 10+ 20-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8c596be38185 18:34:21 03by02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/676 * 0.6.0-a1-2596-g01c1ba0: Move monster casts from melee_attack to actor. 10(8 years ago, 5 files, 103+ 106-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/01c1ba05bf8d 18:34:21 03by02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/676 * 0.6.0-a1-2597-gec2bbe2: Move enums from mon-util.h to mon-enum.h. 10(8 years ago, 2 files, 312+ 299-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ec2bbe284c88 18:34:21 03by02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/676 * 0.6.0-a1-2598-g2196b6b: Split mon_resist_def out of mon-util.h. 10(8 years ago, 2 files, 47+ 42-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2196b6bb6af8 18:34:21 03by02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/676 * 0.6.0-a1-2599-g32a1ae1: Move mon_resist_def implementation to mon_resist_def.cc. 10(8 years ago, 3 files, 114+ 108-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/32a1ae1dfeaf 18:34:21 03by02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/676 * 0.6.0-a1-2600-g22cb578: Update includes after the mon-util.h split. 10(8 years ago, 19 files, 25+ 12-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/22cb578fbab3 18:34:21 03jpeg02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/676 * 0.6.0-a1-2601-gf62d70e: Replace player hog tile with one based on Porkchop's creation. Thanks! 10(8 years ago, 1 file, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f62d70e0f321 18:34:21 03jpeg02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/676 * 0.6.0-a1-2602-g7c9d554: Move transformation tiles into their own folder player/transform. 10(8 years ago, 9 files, 10+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7c9d554edcd9 18:34:21 ... and 42186 more commits 18:35:34 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please. 18:35:35 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??servers for instructions. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic 18:38:41 . . . 18:39:45 right, that was what that discussion was about 18:39:45 and in fact we've had someone else do that as well 18:39:56 or something similar 19:10:31 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 19:24:59 -!- ProzacElf_ is now known as ProzacElf 19:53:47 when are purple stairs getting implemented 20:08:31 when are hellmonk memes going to get good 20:08:38 amalloy_: thanks for that code review 20:08:42 trick question they were already good 20:08:57 I think I will probably just have it be coinflip between animate dead and agon 20:09:12 then the coinflip between borg's vile clutch and excruciating wounds 20:09:37 s/agon/agony/ 21:11:57 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please. 21:11:57 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??servers for instructions. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic 21:49:37 -!- mikee__ is now known as mikee_ 22:11:37 Napkin: I'm guessing the problem isn't really that any particular asshole is intent on spamming, but that there are tons of automated spam attempts these days and no security measure is going to be permanent or absolutely foolproof to the point of not requiring human involvement from time to time 22:12:22 also FYI for anyone looking back at this (probably doesn't matter too much), chei wasn't in channel for part of that discussion so it's not in the logs, possibly it freaked out at the 42k commit PR 22:13:05 how did that PR happen? 22:13:36 that contributor did something weird in git 22:13:57 and then force pushed, I suppose 22:14:53 he said he followed this guide: https://help.github.com/articles/changing-author-info/#platform-linux 22:15:20 it's the some contributor who has put up PRs several times and then closed/deleted them (and his account) because he didn't like his username 22:15:24 and proceeded to force push most of the repo history to their pr >.> 22:15:27 has done some translations to russian 22:16:33 maybe we need to link to https://ohshitgit.com 22:27:34 I don't suppose anyone has had a chance to look at that ghost cleanup PR? 22:28:14 I know people are pretty busy right now 22:29:04 I might just merge it soon, hopefully shouldn't break anything too much; if there's any hope of ghost vaults in 0.21 I need to get on that 22:34:03 advil: yeah, I was going to make a feeble promise earlier, but I have my own branch (that's currently failing travis) 22:34:28 I blame amalloy reviewing the code and pointing out all the bugs to travis! 22:34:32 heh 23:01:20 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=24935 23:01:40 is there any reason that xv-ing a stack shouldn't bring up an interface similar to ctrl-X? 23:08:33 CanOfWorms: haven't read the thread, but one thing to remember is that stacks only reveal the top item before the player has explored the stack (i.e. stepped onto that square at least once) 23:08:45 this is to prevent the need to ctrl-X every time you see a new item pile 23:09:25 once you have explored that tile though, yeah that information is available and I think displays in ctrl-x 23:09:32 as for as x-v going to ctrl-x in that case, isn't x-v showing you details of the top item? 23:09:47 wouldn't you just want to use ctrl-X if you wanted the full list 23:11:09 ctrl-X shows everything in LOS 23:11:44 in that thread the player is interested in knowing the contents of a specific spot on the screen 23:12:25 <|amethyst> gammafunk: the problem is that currently, even if you *have* stepped onto a stack, x and xv only show the top item 23:12:38 <|amethyst> gammafunk: while ctrl-x shows them all, but also everything else visible 23:14:22 also, from what I can tell, a stack can be partially identified (i.e. I've seen things before and new things have been added to it) 23:35:33 |amethyst: CanOfWorms: that is sort of of a problem, but cases where that is ambigiuos are also relatively rare 23:36:00 I'm not sure if you can have x-v still be usable directly for item examination purposes (which it needs to be) and also act like a limited ctrl-x 23:36:16 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I was thinking, behave as it currently does if there is one item 23:36:28 <|amethyst> otherwise pull up a list, then you pick the item and get its description 23:36:32 hrm 23:36:43 I suppose that would not really cause any harm since you can still get to the desc 23:36:48 are they even sorted though? 23:36:57 I guess you just need to know for sure the top item 23:37:30 in terms of matching the desc you read to the item you possibly want (and top item is relevant to e.g. apport) 23:37:50 as long as you can unambigiuosly get the desc of the top item in that situation, I guess 23:38:09 <|amethyst> if you list the top item first, the order of the others doesn't really matter 23:38:14 yes 23:38:52 <|amethyst> hm, does ; list the top item first? 23:38:56 <|amethyst> if not, perhaps it should 23:39:07 seems like it 23:39:10 <|amethyst> I mean, when it lists items rather than picking things up 23:39:41 <|amethyst> (that command really needs to be simplified and/or split) 23:41:22 I think it actually lists the items in the stack order 23:41:50 i.e. if it describes a,b,c then picking up a puts b at the top and then picking up b puts c at the top 23:43:34 <|amethyst> probably, since that's the easiest order to iterate in 23:44:29 <|amethyst> there is that bug about stack order not being saved 23:46:26 <|amethyst> (so stacks permute on save/restore, which I think can affect which item is on the top, though I don't know how that interacts with the stash tracker) 23:47:04 could save/loading be new tech to leak information about a stack???