01:19:04 -!- mikee___ is now known as mikee_ 01:20:04 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-529-g8c7b3f5 (34) 01:59:55 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-529-g8c7b3f5 02:53:38 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-529-g8c7b3f5 03:11:34 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.21-a0-529-g8c7b3f5 (34) 04:39:17 theanonym (L25 DrAr) ASSERT(a) in 'item-prop.cc' at line 1051 failed. (No actor in stationary net at (51,55)) (Crypt:2) 04:51:18 -!- mikee___ is now known as mikee_ 04:55:40 Some criticism on the new wall jump prompt https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/7ilx1e/anyone_actually_like_new_wu_wall_jump_annoying/ 04:55:58 I've been thinking that an option may be to just offer a normal Y/n prompt when moving against a wall 04:56:29 so you press enter to go through with it, which is just one keypress, and it will catch direction-spam and allow you to type N 04:56:48 advil: thoughts? I know your head was on this too 05:03:52 honestly, the ideal would be a prompt that confirms the wall jump on Enter but cancels on any other key. Not sure that can be done 06:46:34 -!- Chousuke_ is now known as Chousuke 06:56:41 SteelNeuron, I think this comment is brilliant: https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/7ilx1e/anyone_actually_like_new_wu_wall_jump_annoying/dqzr1hj/ 06:57:03 I fully agree. 06:57:18 Haha 06:57:32 Well, I'm trying to be sensitive to people who criticised accidental wall jumps, but I do agree with that comment personally 06:57:42 I have spent an ungodly amount of hours testing WJC so I never accidentally wall jump 06:57:51 but I would like to accomodate players who have that problem to some extent 06:58:16 at the very least prevent accidental wall jumps in the cases where you're trying to navigate carefully (i.e. not holding down a direction) 06:58:34 but yeah, if your method of navigation is holding one direction, well... That wasn't going to go well regardless of god choice 07:31:02 Bazaar vault blocked by statue, enterable via LRD or shatter only 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11319 by NormalPerson7 10:23:42 hm 10:23:53 wall jump without some kind of protection is just terrible UI, sorry 10:24:30 "the god of careful movement" is not something that should be in crawl 10:25:02 I haven't really played with the current version much though 10:26:22 also, "I never accidentally wall jump" is not really very helpful here 10:27:14 !crashlog theanonym 10:27:15 2. theanonym, XL25 DrAr, T:94846 (milestone): http://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/theanonym/crash-theanonym-20171209-093855.txt 10:30:44 the basic problem is that it changes something that is a noop in the rest of crawl into something that can have major tactical consequences 10:35:30 advil: fair :) what do you think of the "enter to confirm" version? 10:35:58 not sure...I do agree that adding even more barriers makes it less likely to be perceived as fun 10:36:04 that's why I liked the two move version 10:36:32 I'd like to play with the current version a bit 10:36:46 do I understand those reddit comments right that people are actually using it to navigate a level with no monsters in sight? 10:37:16 I mean, yeah, that would be annoying 10:39:21 <|amethyst> I blame turn scoring 10:39:28 but it doesn't move any faster? 10:39:45 <|amethyst> it moves you two spaces in 20 aut, same as walking 10:39:49 oh I see 10:39:56 <|amethyst> but (unless I missed something) it counts as 1 turn 10:40:02 so it does 10:40:07 <|amethyst> that's why I had been suggesting making it a delay 10:40:23 <|amethyst> though, to keep the current timing, the delay turn would need to be after the jump happens 10:41:27 <|amethyst> also, if you count that delay as a movement turn, it might be a simpler solution to the serpent's lash accounting 10:41:35 <|amethyst> hm 10:41:42 <|amethyst> I guess probably it wouldn't actually be simpler 10:42:56 could it just increment the turn counter by 2? 10:43:18 making walljump a turncount speedrun strat strikes me as unfortunate 10:45:19 <|amethyst> hm 10:45:43 <|amethyst> that's probably possible, and that would keep the current monster behaviour 10:46:05 <|amethyst> since there are differences between running two 10-aut world_reacts()s vs one 20-aut one 10:46:47 <|amethyst> (e.g. in the former case, four monsters would go in the order A B C D A B C D; in the latter, A A B B C C D D) 10:53:30 I wonder if there's a way to have lunge work in more than 8 directions 10:53:32 probably not 10:55:02 so as someone who doesn't use walljump all that much (only for some specific tactical repositioning cases) the current version strikes me as totally fine 10:55:30 I have the advantage of not having played at all on v1 so I guess I have no inclination to use it all the time 10:55:59 it's just a guess but I suspect new players to the god would be ok with it (it would be nice to have other instances) 10:58:06 Afaik, wall jump already takes both 20 auts *and* 2 turns. 10:59:15 oh, does it? 10:59:34 looks like it takes 1 turn 11:00:05 (didn't look at code though, just used : to put notes in a log in my ongoing game to see the turn #s) 11:00:19 <|amethyst> it only looks like one to me, checking E here 11:00:34 oh heh I forgot about that option 11:00:38 that would have been easier 11:01:00 No, I was wrong. 11:01:37 sometimes I think crawl has too many random buttons that tell you some specific set of things about the game state 11:02:08 % shows turns too 11:05:48 yes, they are all partially overlapping too 11:20:04 is there any other action that takes more than 1 turn? 11:22:49 it does seem a bit weirdly exceptional for wall jump to be the only thing (though everything else relevant is gated by a cooldown or limited supply or contam I think?) 11:23:24 fr aut scoring 11:31:06 yeah, it's not entirely easy to increment the turn counter on a wall jump in a clean way, I can do it in a hacky way that I suspect will lead to problems 11:33:03 well, it's just a bit more work to do this in a real way 11:34:56 <|amethyst> advil: there are plenty of actions with multi-turn delays 11:35:13 I think they all do it by running world_reacts repeatedly though? 11:35:17 unless I'm missing something 11:35:22 <|amethyst> advil: armour changing, multidrop, multichop, (previously) eating 11:35:25 <|amethyst> yeah, I think so 11:35:51 <|amethyst> the thing is, those all have the delay either at the beginning, or interspersed throughout 11:35:56 <|amethyst> which is why a delay is necessary 11:36:00 right 11:36:23 <|amethyst> if you want the extra turn at the end, double-incrementing the turn count does require a lot less code 11:36:30 <|amethyst> even if it has behavioural differences 11:36:32 <|amethyst> well, not a lot 11:36:40 Sorry I caught up now 11:36:41 <|amethyst> but more than a few lines 11:37:05 I am not an online player so I'm unsure about turn count speedrunning, how it works, and how meaningful it is. Sorry I didn't take it into account! 11:37:12 It also strikes me as the best solution to increase turn count by 1 11:37:15 2, rather 11:37:17 oh, no problem not thinking of that 11:37:22 I didn't either 11:37:40 <|amethyst> we still have breadswinging, after all 11:37:50 alternatively have it so specifically for turn count speedrunning, every use of wall jump is retroactively counted as 2 turns 11:37:55 <|amethyst> (and removing it wouldn't help, because then it would just be scytheswinging) 11:37:56 hacky, but constrained to people who care about turn count speedrunning 11:38:08 <|amethyst> SteelNeuron: score is based on turn count 11:38:12 hm 11:38:19 <|amethyst> SteelNeuron: so even non-speedrunners care to a tiny extent 11:38:26 I see 11:38:28 <|amethyst> only speedrunners care enough to do those tedious things 11:38:45 <|amethyst> (usually) 11:39:03 I'm still trying to decide how much I'm worried about this 11:39:46 <|amethyst> FR: rename speedrunning (in the Crawl context) to "scorescumming" 11:40:39 so the worry would be that the optimal speedrunning strategy would become worshipping WJC and traversing maps mostly through wall jump, right? 11:41:10 Usually there isn't that much of a level that you can traverse with WJ, unless you have consistent three-tile wide corridors 11:41:30 it does help navigate a few corners, but I don't think it would be a huge advantage 11:42:00 yeah...well really this started with my question about why players are using walljump outside of combat, and turncount is the only reason I can think of 11:42:01 <|amethyst> well, even with just a straight wall you can do 11:42:07 but I agree that it's not clear that it's a huge boost 11:42:27 <|amethyst> jump, diagonal to place you adjacent to the wall, jump, diagonal, etc 11:42:33 walljump outside of combat is good for bridging lava and water tiles, and to manipulate LOS 11:42:59 |amethyst: true 11:42:59 well the first case is pretty rare, these posters sounded like they're just doing it all the time 11:43:22 <|amethyst> are there any *downsides* to making it take 2 turns as opposed to status quo? 11:43:40 <|amethyst> it sounds like you'd "just" need to increment a number somewhere 11:43:44 the way turncount vs aut is calculated makes the code ugly :-P 11:43:56 Oh and btw 11:44:12 The biggest difference between this wall jump and the former "combat only" one is not so much using it out of combat 11:44:16 but using it to move away from a pack 11:44:33 it sounds like it wouldn't make a difference considering it's as fast as walking, but that's when whirlwind pin comes in 11:44:33 <|amethyst> hm 11:44:36 <|amethyst> I should point out 11:44:41 I guess some players might just find it fun to do? 11:44:46 <|amethyst> I'd probably use walljump to move around 11:44:49 <|amethyst> yeah, because of that 11:44:54 <|amethyst> it's more fun than walking :) 11:45:03 interesting 11:45:15 yep :) I was worried about hurting that with the prompt so that's why the RC file option 11:45:24 <|amethyst> feels like ninja gaiden 11:46:05 Other than this, it feels like the god is doing well. I haven't heard any major balance concerns 11:46:23 <|amethyst> I'd like to see wjc enabled for the release and tournament, but I don't know how others feel 11:46:26 I have a couple ideas for a **** skill in case it was ever needed (the god was found to be a bit short on mechanics) but there's no need to push for that unless we find that a problem 14:01:24 Anyone free for an account creation issue? 14:01:36 (tried asking players 1st, they see the same issue =x) 14:01:59 The problem is, that the "Register" link on The Tavern leads to a Mantis page that has *no Registeration option* 14:02:26 If this is WAD and registrastion is closed, it'd be nice to see something on the forum about it; I've been trying over a year 14:02:37 *registration 14:04:20 Registration page specifically redirects to login.php. 14:04:26 <|amethyst> Bozobub: 14:04:42 er, Registration LINK redirects to login.php 14:04:49 Yes? 14:04:50 <|amethyst> Bozobub: account creation for tavern and mantis is currently disabled 14:04:54 Ah 14:04:56 <|amethyst> Bozobub: because of a spam issue 14:05:09 I was told had been in the past, but not any more =x 14:05:16 Yeah, that was mentioned 14:05:20 but it's been a LONG time 14:05:23 <|amethyst> Bozobub: it happened again 14:05:23 literally over a year 14:05:27 <|amethyst> Bozobub: maybe send a !tell to Napkin 14:05:28 ah 14:05:38 <|amethyst> Bozobub: he's the admin, can probably create an account for you 14:06:36 !tell Napkin Any way to get an account created on The Tavern? I've been trying off-and-on for ca. 2 years now; apparently I have BAD timing re: spam attacks =x 14:06:36 Bozobub: OK, I'll let napkin know. 14:06:37 oop 14:06:55 Sorry, NOT an IRC user of note ^^' 14:07:04 ty both 14:07:24 so just prepend "!tell" to a message, correct? 14:07:43 nah, all that beeps here, it's ok 14:07:43 Napkin: You have 12 messages. Use !messages to read them. 14:07:56 !messages 14:07:56 query 14:07:56 No messages for Bozobub. 14:09:30 i opened a query/chat to you, Bozobub 14:11:04 K, just responded 14:15:15 Thx all; have a good day 15:44:19 !tell johnstein please update hellcrawl when you get a chance 15:44:19 hellmonk: OK, I'll let johnstein know. 16:15:45 Has anyone had experience setting up beem? 16:27:20 gammafunk may have 16:28:51 03|amethyst02 07[food-unification] * 0.21-a0-530-g0f6937a: Make food restriction mutations single-level. 10(4 months ago, 14 files, 75+ 79-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0f6937ae380b 16:28:51 03|amethyst02 07[food-unification] * 0.21-a0-531-g989ebbd: Simplify food_def. 10(4 months ago, 2 files, 15+ 22-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/989ebbde739c 16:28:51 03|amethyst02 07[food-unification] * 0.21-a0-532-g7b5cd42: Merge bread and meat rations. 10(4 months ago, 51 files, 129+ 297-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7b5cd421f1ef 16:28:51 03|amethyst02 07[food-unification] * 0.21-a0-533-g8d86958: Remove royal jellies. 10(4 months ago, 43 files, 89+ 144-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8d8695817492 16:28:51 03|amethyst02 07[food-unification] * 0.21-a0-534-ge1a4dfd: Merge fruit into rations. 10(4 months ago, 38 files, 122+ 180-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e1a4dfd52022 16:28:51 03|amethyst02 07[food-unification] * 0.21-a0-535-g64b24c5: Fix swapped herb/carn food values. 10(4 months ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/64b24c55826a 16:28:51 03|amethyst02 07[food-unification] * 0.21-a0-536-g97e09ed: Remove obsolete commends in food.des. 10(4 months ago, 1 file, 0+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/97e09ed53289 16:28:51 03|amethyst02 07[food-unification] * 0.21-a0-537-g4377a5c: Decrease herb/carn ration nutrition. 10(4 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4377a5cc0a4b 16:28:51 03|amethyst02 07[food-unification] * 0.21-a0-538-g5573f9c: Reduce ration nutrition by about 37%. 10(4 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5573f9c7dfc4 16:28:51 03|amethyst02 07[food-unification] * 0.21-a0-539-gcd42674: Correct objstat nutrition counts for food piles. 10(4 months ago, 1 file, 6+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cd42674cb8a7 16:28:51 ... and 6 more commits 16:28:58 03|amethyst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/656 * 0.21-a0-530-g0f6937a: Make food restriction mutations single-level. 10(4 months ago, 14 files, 75+ 79-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0f6937ae380b 16:28:58 03|amethyst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/656 * 0.21-a0-531-g989ebbd: Simplify food_def. 10(4 months ago, 2 files, 15+ 22-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/989ebbde739c 16:28:58 03|amethyst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/656 * 0.21-a0-532-g7b5cd42: Merge bread and meat rations. 10(4 months ago, 51 files, 129+ 297-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7b5cd421f1ef 16:28:58 03|amethyst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/656 * 0.21-a0-533-g8d86958: Remove royal jellies. 10(4 months ago, 43 files, 89+ 144-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8d8695817492 16:28:58 03|amethyst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/656 * 0.21-a0-534-ge1a4dfd: Merge fruit into rations. 10(4 months ago, 38 files, 122+ 180-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e1a4dfd52022 16:28:58 03|amethyst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/656 * 0.21-a0-535-g64b24c5: Fix swapped herb/carn food values. 10(4 months ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/64b24c55826a 16:28:58 03|amethyst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/656 * 0.21-a0-536-g97e09ed: Remove obsolete commends in food.des. 10(4 months ago, 1 file, 0+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/97e09ed53289 16:28:58 03|amethyst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/656 * 0.21-a0-537-g4377a5c: Decrease herb/carn ration nutrition. 10(4 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4377a5cc0a4b 16:28:58 03|amethyst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/656 * 0.21-a0-538-g5573f9c: Reduce ration nutrition by about 37%. 10(4 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5573f9c7dfc4 16:28:58 03|amethyst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/656 * 0.21-a0-539-gcd42674: Correct objstat nutrition counts for food piles. 10(4 months ago, 1 file, 6+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cd42674cb8a7 16:28:58 ... and 6 more commits 16:30:08 <|amethyst> I really need to make it track all announced commits, not just those in trunk 16:30:12 <|amethyst> %git food-unification 16:30:12 07|amethyst02 * 0.21-a0-545-g7facf51: Remove mutagenic chunks. 10(17 minutes ago, 11 files, 14+ 70-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7facf51d8e6f 16:30:23 <|amethyst> ^^ I was kind of thinking about slightly increasing the number of mutations (and possibly removed mutations) from !mutation 16:32:59 03|amethyst02 07[food-unification] * 0.21-a0-546-g99d6003: Move mutagenic food brand tile to UNUSED. 10(14 seconds ago, 2 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/99d6003630cb 16:33:05 03|amethyst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/656 * 0.21-a0-546-g99d6003: Move mutagenic food brand tile to UNUSED. 10(20 seconds ago, 2 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/99d6003630cb 16:41:28 The build was canceled. (food-unification - 7facf51 #9003 : Neil Moore): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/314094955 17:05:59 03|amethyst02 07[food-unification] * 0.21-a0-547-g3641782: Fix broken logic, and remove some vestiges. 10(26 minutes ago, 7 files, 6+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/36417822e5a4 17:06:05 03|amethyst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/656 * 0.21-a0-547-g3641782: Fix broken logic, and remove some vestiges. 10(26 minutes ago, 7 files, 6+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/36417822e5a4 17:07:01 <|amethyst> assuming that passes the tests (and some local testing), I'm planning on merging the branch soon 17:32:09 cool 17:32:09 gammafunk: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 17:32:52 chance672: beem is already running for cjr, please don't run another one 17:33:55 chance672: oh, do you mean you're trying to get subscribed to beem on cjr? 17:34:02 you can spectate yourself a few times and it should show up 17:34:57 gammafunk, yes thats what needed to happen. Thank you! 17:36:37 03|amethyst02 07[food-unification] * 0.21-a0-548-g8a197ab: Remove mutagenic chunks from util/monster. 10(35 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8a197ab3dd6e 17:36:43 03|amethyst02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/656 * 0.21-a0-548-g8a197ab: Remove mutagenic chunks from util/monster. 10(41 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8a197ab3dd6e 17:38:03 |amethyst: was the situation with fedhas left in a satisfactory state? 17:38:18 I forget what the final fedhas situation was 17:38:23 maybe I should just read the commits 17:40:15 |amethyst: aha! 17:40:19 I found one you missed 17:41:49 03gammafunk02 07[food-unification] * 0.21-a0-549-g846f1c0: Remove some mutagenic chunks from a shop 10(19 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/846f1c01b6a1 17:41:56 03gammafunk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/656 * 0.21-a0-549-g846f1c0: Remove some mutagenic chunks from a shop 10(25 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/846f1c01b6a1 17:42:21 sneaky nicolae 17:42:49 what is util/gather_items used for 17:43:37 oh, part of db_lint 17:45:37 TIL crawl has eggplants 17:47:38 03gammafunk02 07[food-unification] * 0.21-a0-550-gf2b706b: Remove mutagenic chunks from db_lint 10(34 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f2b706bfb61f 17:47:44 03gammafunk02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/656 * 0.21-a0-550-gf2b706b: Remove mutagenic chunks from db_lint 10(40 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f2b706bfb61f 18:05:05 -!- Tux[Qyou] is now known as idling 18:05:44 -!- idling is now known as Tux[Qyou] 19:06:23 -!- DaddelButze is now known as daddelbutze 19:09:08 The build passed. (food-unification - 846f1c0 #9011 : gammafunk): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/314115825 19:09:47 o_O 19:19:34 my body is ready 19:31:07 haha 20:55:54 noooooo not mutagenic chunks 20:58:30 thx gammafunk and |amethyst 21:45:59 -!- 07IAB5E2U is now known as evablue 22:03:41 is was all neil 22:03:44 I'm blameless 22:03:52 just check the git blame, you'll see!