00:13:47 <nikheizen> great job guys, all that's left are the ID/sticky curse removal and food removal
00:14:15 <nikheizen> dcss can finally catch up to hellcrawl
00:24:13 <gammafunk> we'll know we've caught up to hellcrawl when we have 0 players...just like hellcrawl does!
00:24:19 <gammafunk> c h a o s  d u n k
00:27:46 <nikheizen> exccuse you, hellcrawl has 3 players
00:29:53 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.21-a0-471-gd587bd5 (34)
02:17:07 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
02:20:44 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
02:30:53 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07* 0.21-a0-472-g223bcb9: Properly handle autopickup of unknown wands (Zibokwe, |amethyst) 10(43 minutes ago, 6 files, 18+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/223bcb9e322a
03:21:37 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.21-a0-472-g223bcb9 (34)
04:05:48 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
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07:25:56 <Eksell> zero (L21 GrBe)  (Depths:2)
08:48:41 <Yermak> Scroll of brand weapon got wrong tile.
08:50:39 <Cheibriados> Scroll of brand weapon has wrong tile. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11288 by Yermak
12:24:20 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.21-a0-472-g223bcb9 (34)
13:10:03 <|amethyst> I can confirm the brand weapon tile thing, but I don't see why it would be happening
13:12:09 <|amethyst> hm, it's in the right place in the tile sheet
13:12:22 <|amethyst> but somehow it's using SCR_ENCHANT_WEAPON_II instead it looks like
13:12:52 <|amethyst> oh
13:13:08 <|amethyst> the order in rltiles/dc-item.txt doesn't match the order in enum scroll_type
13:15:23 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  in b644aa4db you changed the order of some tiles in dc-items.txt
13:15:40 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  but the order is important: tilepick.cc assumes it matches the enum
13:16:16 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  resulting in mantis #11288 (scroll of brand weapon looks like scroll of enchant weapon)
13:18:42 <amalloy> console elitists don't even notice when they foist bugs upon the common man
13:19:38 <|amethyst> I wonder if wands were changed too
13:19:40 <advil> hm, dc-items.txt has comments about this but item-prop-enum.h doesn't, I guess it should
13:20:13 <|amethyst> advil:  well, changing the order in item-prop-enum.h has bigger consequences than just screwing up tiles
13:21:01 <|amethyst> so the comment should be something along the lines of "Don't reorder unless you're breaking save compat, and if so also change the tiles"
13:21:11 <advil> yeah, seems reasonable
13:24:43 <gammafunk> ah
13:24:47 <gammafunk> I should have just removed tiles
13:24:47 <|amethyst> wands seem fine still
13:24:58 <|amethyst> I'm about to commit a fix
13:25:00 <gammafunk> ty
13:25:07 <gammafunk> is the commit to remove tiles?
13:25:20 <gammafunk> if not I understand, but we should put it in the Plan
13:26:03 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  like anyone would follow you on twitch if you didn't have tiles
13:26:05 <gammafunk> hmm, I hadn't thought of that
13:29:36 <Cheibriados> 03|amethyst02 07* 0.21-a0-473-g129e634: Checkwhite 10(61 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/129e634afd0f
13:29:36 <Cheibriados> 03|amethyst02 07* 0.21-a0-474-g05767a1: Fix brand weapon tile (#11288). 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 14+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/05767a10c82e
14:21:10 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest47748
15:26:29 <Yermak> Interesting fact: there are no two-handed maces for small species.
15:47:38 <amalloy> how does the lajatang of order get its ARTP_RMUT? in art-data.txt i see BOOL:    rMut, but i don't see that property reflected in art-data.h
15:49:23 <amalloy> i guess this is a general question about unrands in general, and not specifically Order, since i also don't understand how OCPA gets clarity, and so on
15:49:43 <amalloy> oh god damn it, there's a 1 snuck into that grid of 0s. never mind, i see it
18:05:41 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.21-a0-475-gcc397bb: Make that one statue in due_jungle_book diggable 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cc397bb6e087
18:06:35 <|amethyst> advil:  I'd consider making that statue look different
18:06:51 <advil> I could just set it to not be green
18:06:53 <|amethyst> advil:  otherwise it's kind of difficult for the player to discover that it can be dug
18:06:58 <|amethyst> advil:  yeah, and a different tile
18:07:06 <advil> well, as a player I expected it to be diggable because of the item
18:07:09 <|amethyst> advil:  or make it lightgreen
18:07:15 <|amethyst> fair enough :)
18:07:19 <advil> so I think the problem is more that it implied something wrong about the other statues
18:07:23 <advil> *implies
18:07:43 <|amethyst> yeah, I guess it depends on what order you do things in
18:13:44 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.21-a0-476-gd103f4b: Make the anomolous due_jungle_book statue grey (|amethyst) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d103f4b23a28
18:14:29 <advil> I went with grey because there was already a matching tile
18:15:34 <advil> is there any other vault where setting trees on fire gets you something?
18:17:20 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.21-a0-474-g05767a10c8 (34)
18:17:37 <advil> also, does the complaint that melee characters can no longer set swamp on fire make any sense?  (It doesn't to me but it's never even remotely occurred to me to even try that.)
18:20:08 <|amethyst> I think it makes sense to complain that spellcasters with level 5 fire spells (or lightning bolt) can, but no one else
18:26:17 <advil> what's it actually good for though? I guess it gets a lot of flame clouds in certain vaults?
18:27:01 <|amethyst> also, it's a form of digging
18:27:20 <advil> well, a not tactically great form (or at least that's how I've always taken it)
18:28:02 <advil> usually on an AE I have tried to avoid setting fires, maybe that's wrong
18:30:40 <gammafunk> advil: well, you can't really set swamp on fire
18:30:51 <gammafunk> because "mangrove" trees or whatever they're called don't burn normally
18:30:57 <gammafunk> they place a water tile when destroyed
18:31:00 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest68107
18:31:36 <gammafunk> it used to be that you could readilly start forest fires in swamp (and they would start on their own because of things like vapours and I guess nikola)
18:32:09 <gammafunk> but it is true that you can no longer do some "tree digging" without specific spells now
18:32:24 <|amethyst> the water tile isn't the thing that's weird
18:32:31 <|amethyst> it's that they have a different kind of cloud
18:32:37 <|amethyst> in swamp it's a regular CLOUD_FIRE
18:32:44 <gammafunk> yeah, that was to prevent the forest fires
18:32:47 <|amethyst> which doesn't spread
18:33:07 <gammafunk> because people would just light these fires and burn up a ton of swamp monsters
18:33:47 <gammafunk> I don't think anyone would say that the whole tree destruction/forest fire situation is ideal
18:34:02 <gammafunk> the problem is that forests fires aren't really a thing used in any wide-spread way
18:34:04 <bh> least of all Fedhas
18:34:13 <gammafunk> so many people don't even know about them
18:34:26 <gammafunk> probably not wise-spread since it's a pretty free way to just kill a lot of monsters
18:34:39 <gammafunk> s/wise/wide/
18:35:31 <gammafunk> guess you don't really have to hyphenate widespread
18:35:40 <gammafunk> what was that comment that neil pointed out the other day
18:36:36 <|amethyst> 17:03:34 <+|amethyst>                  // Over-ride whatever property is already there.
18:36:44 <gammafunk> yeah that was it, "over-ride"
18:37:00 <gammafunk> you don't want forest fires to be so wide-spread that they over-ride the Swamp
18:37:16 <|amethyst> s/wide/wise/
18:37:26 <advil> ah, didn't realize that about swamp
18:37:55 <advil> so in swamp I guess you could use a bunch of lightning hits as a more directed form of digging, effectively disint for trees with a time delay?
18:38:03 <gammafunk> choosing the perfect flavorful dip for your party snacks means that you're very wise-spread
18:39:13 <gammafunk> sure, you can use lightning to make killholes and the like
18:39:28 <gammafunk> or just path around something
18:39:53 <|amethyst> I remember in the late 80s/early 90s where one of the video game magazines did a Ys-spread
18:40:16 <|amethyst> (I know it's not pronounced that way, but didn't know it then)
18:40:25 <gammafunk> those games were so weird; the one I played seemed to have this intro that went on for what seemed 30 minutes
18:40:44 <|amethyst> FFIV had an intro that went on for that long, too
18:40:56 <gammafunk> I didn't really play it, more just watched the into
18:41:03 <gammafunk> Yeah that was a very long intro as well
18:41:27 <|amethyst> that's what puts the "J" in "JRPG"
18:41:39 <|amethyst> it's about telling a story, so the player is really entirely optional
18:42:42 <|amethyst> whereas "western" RPGs are about character customization, so you start by taking a purity test instead
18:42:49 <|amethyst> (which Ultima was that?)
18:44:40 <gammafunk> Having the player go through 10 consecutive menu screens before they begin is pretty immersive
18:45:10 <|amethyst> Now I'm imagining a Paranoia CRPG
18:45:19 <|amethyst> where you start by filling out a Character Requisition Form
18:45:55 <|amethyst> which is then likely to be denied, so you can lose the game before it even starts
18:49:57 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  also, I get to nerf trog now, right?
18:50:16 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  or is VS still too good a species? :)
18:50:27 <gammafunk> VS is pretty mediocre
18:50:33 <gammafunk> I assume you mean having berserk cost piety?
18:50:53 <|amethyst> I was mostly joking, but that would be my first thought
18:51:05 <|amethyst> or reducing healing from Trog's Hand
18:51:17 <|amethyst> I didn't actually berserk very much in that last game
18:51:50 <gammafunk> there are probably some other gods at the high end that could use adjustment
18:52:34 <gammafunk> I don't see any fundamental problem with berserk having a piety cost; the only awkward part of this is how you tend to use berserk less and less over time
18:53:16 <gammafunk> I suppose that's not really too awkward, it just nerfs trog the most early on, which is also where the god is strongest relative to other gods
18:53:25 <|amethyst> yeah
18:53:51 <gammafunk> I'm not sure I like decreasing healing from trog's hand; 100 rr is basically the point where regeneration matters at all in combat
18:54:11 <gammafunk> perhaps it's awkward how it does two completely different things in one ability
18:54:31 <gammafunk> it's just that the regen part is basically good in every fight, so it's not that bad
18:54:44 <gammafunk> so I don't see a problem with nerfing berserk, but of course it'd be nice to hear from other devs about that
18:55:06 <gammafunk> dunno what elliptic, MPA, and anyone else worried about god balance feels
18:55:34 <gammafunk> or we could punt by forbidding |amethyst from playing any more berserkers until he can win a mage
18:55:41 <|amethyst> heh
18:55:49 <gammafunk> then we'd be able to pair a melee nerf with a mage nerf (for whichever god/class he wins)
18:56:59 <|amethyst> I've already gotten spellcasters nerfed, a bit indirectly
18:57:03 <|amethyst> ??twisted resurrection
18:57:04 <Sequell> twisted resurrection[1/3]: Converts all piles of corpses in LOS into crawling corpses or macabre masses, very weak attackless creatures that can merge to form abominations. Creates 1HD worth of creatures per 60 to 20 aum, depending on spell power (and with half efficiency past 15 HD). Small aboms require 6HD and two corpses, large 11HD and three corpses. Replaced with {cigotuvi's embrace} in 0.16.
18:57:42 <|amethyst> you don't expect me to win two different jobs in the same year do you?
18:58:40 <gammafunk> I mean, we don't have to lecure you about the need for a proper sample size!
18:58:57 <gammafunk> *lecture
19:24:36 <amalloy> i haven't thought deeply about this, but i like the idea of berserk costing piety, as a way to train players not to hoard piety until they die
19:24:55 <amalloy> since like, it'll still be right to berserk a ton in the early game even if it costs piety
19:37:59 <gammafunk> but I'm saving my piety...for later...for Lair...but when I get to Lair I also have to save piety for later....for Orc...
19:38:20 <travis-ci> The build has errored. (master - d103f4b #8943 : advil): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/305536342
19:38:25 <amalloy> you gotta make sure you have trog's hand available for Elf
19:38:35 <amalloy> can't afford to berserk this gnoll pack
19:39:26 <|amethyst> Can't berserk now, that will delay my weapon gifts!
20:00:53 <amalloy> i would love it if people who think that die more often
20:02:00 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest66726
20:17:13 <gammafunk> btw I'm updating changelog tonight, and I'll make a trunk update post afterwards
20:17:21 <|amethyst> awesome!
20:17:55 <advil> finally, players will think we are doing something
20:18:54 <advil> (thanks for updating it!)
20:19:11 <advil> random relevant quote from a forum I'm on: "Does anyone know what's going on with Crawl development these days? The develz blog hasn't updated in a long time, other than to announce the release of a different game."
21:14:33 <mumra> what, 0.21 is going to be different to 0.20? i demand an explanation!
21:21:03 <gammafunk> 0.21 Highlight: It's not 0.20
21:31:03 <advil> (they meant the post about PF's game I think)
21:50:14 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest12586
21:55:56 <gammafunk> ??wall jump
21:55:57 <Sequell> wu jian[4/8]: Wall Jump: Triggered by moving toward an adjacent solid obstacle. It propels the character two tiles in the opposite direction, attacking in an area of effect. Can cause a brief distraction to onlookers.
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23:40:09 <fazisi> is this a feature?
23:40:21 <fazisi> just fought a player ghost with Tree form AC and damage
23:40:42 <fazisi> but he was clearly moving towards me, so does this mean that there are flying ghost tree gnolls out there?