00:00:03 <Yermak> I agree it's better
00:00:11 <|amethyst> I guess it probably wouldn't be that long, it's not like you're doing a full loop over the monsters each aut
00:00:33 <|amethyst> err
00:00:39 <|amethyst> I mean, over the whole monster array
00:00:53 <|amethyst> since most monsters don't exist
00:01:07 <Yermak> Why decreasing variance in cloud/poison damage is bad?
00:01:45 <Yermak> Btw, how does AC apply to cloud damage?
00:02:47 <Yermak> Is damage per actor_auction is added together and then AC is subtracted?
00:03:21 <Yermak> Then applying AC per aut would be wrong.
00:04:45 <Yermak> action*
00:07:57 <Yermak> I'd add clouds and poison into the queue. How else would you tackle them? Apply them to affected actor when it becomes the head of the queue? But they could kill actor before that which could result in different actions before this moment.
00:08:42 <Yermak> I think adding them to the queue decreases the number of extra cases like one I mentioned.
00:12:14 <Yermak> Anyway, I'm going to think all this over and present a thoroughly thought-out model later.
00:15:57 <aidanh> clouds should perhaps be applied to the affected actors before each actor is popped from the front
00:17:13 <aidanh> it'd be difficult to have cloud damage be proportional to auts spent within them if clouds are actors as well
00:17:49 <aidanh> but of course there are a variety of cloud types as well..
00:36:54 <Yermak> Random question: can kraken move while there are tentacles on the board?
01:19:27 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-444-g29a2fec (34)
01:29:39 -!- n1 is now known as n1^[MiBe]
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01:57:34 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-444-g29a2fec
02:48:30 <Yermak> Would it be better if divine aura (halo or umbra) for Barachi maxed out at full LoS instead of just 7 range?
02:52:59 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-444-g29a2fec
03:11:38 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.21-a0-444-g29a2fec (34)
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10:00:51 <Cheibriados> 03SteelNeuron02 {advil} 07* 0.21-a0-445-g4bd3c4a: Rework WJC Wall Jump 10(4 days ago, 12 files, 38+ 122-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4bd3c4a35ffe
10:00:51 <Cheibriados> 03SteelNeuron02 {advil} 07* 0.21-a0-446-ga30aec3: Rework WJC Serpent's Lash 10(4 days ago, 4 files, 20+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a30aec3dbd1c
10:00:51 <Cheibriados> 03SteelNeuron02 {advil} 07* 0.21-a0-447-g8a73434: Add WJC Whirlwind pin effect 10(4 days ago, 8 files, 21+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8a73434415f7
10:00:51 <Cheibriados> 03SteelNeuron02 {advil} 07* 0.21-a0-448-g972c5ad: Fix order of ability unlocks 10(4 days ago, 3 files, 14+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/972c5ad6fffb
10:00:51 <Cheibriados> 03SteelNeuron02 {advil} 07* 0.21-a0-449-gc17f1d9: Refactor and fix Whirlwind Pin 10(2 days ago, 5 files, 34+ 25-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c17f1d935a7f
10:00:51 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.21-a0-450-gd87a9b2: Add labeling for pinned monsters 10(21 minutes ago, 2 files, 6+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d87a9b27c2d9
10:01:34 <advil> my decision to merge doesn't mean I think this is done etc etc :)
10:01:43 <advil> but it seems more or less complete and I wanted to get the ball rolling
10:02:36 <advil> there's probably more UI work to do at a bare minimum, I'm not sure if the results of pinning are very clearly conveyed (without d87a9b27c2d9 they weren't conveyed at all!)
10:03:37 <advil> I mention before that I wasn't entirely clear on when you use walljump, and on testing I think it can be quite useful for tactical repositioning, but maybe the UI could be better still.
10:05:06 <advil> pinning might be too strong? it practically guarantees a space of separation from anything unless you're in a corridor (but then you just lure to a place where you can move appropriately)
10:06:11 <advil> I didn't carefully work through the results of pinning at a technical level but I suspect there might be some corner cases where it has weird interactions with monster actions
10:08:30 <advil> in fact, let me rephrase: as a * ability pinning is way too strong
10:09:47 <advil> well, it does have a cost in that you'll probably have to take damage to get that separation
10:10:10 <advil> so it's not *quite* like Sp walking away
10:10:59 <|amethyst> there's nothing at **** right now, is there?
10:11:24 <|amethyst> so you could get whirlwind attacking at *, and upgrade to pin at ****
10:13:14 <|amethyst> hm, also, does anything WJC increase power with piety?
10:13:31 <|amethyst> because, if not, it's kind of weird not to have a 6* ability
10:14:18 <|amethyst> oh right
10:14:21 <advil> ah good idea re whirlwind
10:14:25 <|amethyst> 6* is not a real thing
10:14:54 <advil> hm, not sure
10:15:09 <|amethyst> (for non-capstone abilities)
10:15:15 <advil> another thing I didn't try to test before merging is how well piety costs are balanced in this version
10:17:43 <|amethyst> also, thanks for merging that
10:17:55 <|amethyst> it was going to be another day or two before I got a chance
10:19:55 <advil> no problem, hope I didn't miss anything, but it seemed pretty ok code-wise (just a few minor changes + the labeling for being pinned)
10:20:50 <advil> hmm I think I have a WJC char in trunk still, maybe I should try to win it before someone gets around to nerfing whirlwind :)
10:32:37 <gammafunk> yeah, sorry my wand charge merging code is taking a little longer than I thought (big surprise), so I also haven't had a chance to look
10:32:40 <advil> <mibe> oh yeah, one thing i brought up to gammafunk a while ago but might be outside the scope of this rework: lunging through allies is pretty cheesy
10:32:47 <advil> that sounds like it should count as a bug to me
10:32:59 <advil> apparently it just swaps you with the ally
10:33:05 <advil> and does lunge damage
10:33:24 <gammafunk> right, we penalize reach through allies; outright disabling it through allies might be the most sensible thing
10:55:50 <murtidash> how do i correlate a trunk build number to a commit that it includes?
10:55:52 <murtidash> i.e.  Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.21-a0-444-g29a2fec (webtiles) character file.
10:56:28 <murtidash> i thought the g29a2fec would correlate with a commit hash but doesn't appear to be the case
10:57:18 <murtidash> and is there any way to request a rebuild on a specific tiles server? or are those only done nightly
11:00:45 <gammafunk> murtidash: remove the leading 'g'
11:00:56 <gammafunk> that g is to indicate the SCM, git in this case
11:01:07 <gammafunk> %git 29a2fec
11:01:08 <Cheibriados> 07gammafunk02 * 0.21-a0-444-g29a2fec: Remove the secret Crawl ASDF project added by the Shadow Dev Team 10(14 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/29a2fec1a17c
11:01:12 <murtidash> thanks
11:01:26 <murtidash> that makes a ton of sense, and also explains why i wasn't finding it :P
11:02:46 <gammafunk> yeah it's a little confusing, but then again 'g' isn't a valid hex value :)
11:03:19 <murtidash> i wish i had a retort for that
11:03:32 <murtidash> because when you point it out it is kind of obvious but i'd never think about it looking at a hash
11:23:28 <advil> I was a dev for like 3 months before realizing how version numbers worked
12:24:04 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.21-a0-450-gd87a9b2 (34)
13:55:53 <amalloy> so i was looking through crawl-ancient to find out when the trident of the octopus king was added. i found this funny diff: https://github.com/crawl/crawl-ancient/commit/4929cadfdd4e3#diff-78b9ea08d1bbbf785a07e6926d2051f5L119
13:55:53 <Sequell> amalloy: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
13:58:35 <gammafunk> a hard-learned lesson...
16:10:24 -!- Taraiph is now known as Taraiphempole
16:58:17 <SteelNeuron> !messages
16:58:17 <Sequell> No messages for SteelNeuron.
17:18:10 <|amethyst> SteelNeuron:  we were talking about maybe making pin ****
17:18:20 <SteelNeuron> Oh, yes I caught up with that
17:18:22 <SteelNeuron> it's interesting
17:18:22 <|amethyst> SteelNeuron:  keeping whirlwind for damage at * as currently
17:18:38 <SteelNeuron> I was also thinking that **** was possibly missing something
17:18:54 <SteelNeuron> although what exactly I guess depends mostly on where we want to take the power level
17:19:04 <SteelNeuron> Do you think it's too strong as is then?
17:19:14 <|amethyst> advil did, I haven't played the new version yet
17:19:34 <SteelNeuron> Yeah
17:19:44 <SteelNeuron> It's hard to quantify how much movement is worth
17:20:03 <SteelNeuron> If anything I was worrying these changes would make it fall on the weak side, but I trust you guys on that
17:21:04 <SteelNeuron> one thing to keep in mind is... I put Serpent's Lash a pip higher than all martial moves because it can be a bit upsetting to use Lash and fall below the level of the move you wanted to use (or pin in this case)
17:21:27 <SteelNeuron> although that could be fixed by delaying the piety loss to after the Lash effect is consumed (not sure how viable/standard this is tbh)
17:22:15 <gammafunk> doesn't whirlwind give relatively little without pin when it's first available?
17:23:26 <SteelNeuron> I'm not sure what I would use whirlwind for without pin, with the 80% damage tbh
17:23:30 <|amethyst> hm
17:23:35 <gammafunk> right, that would be my concern
17:23:43 <gammafunk> I mean, consider what oka gives you at 1*
17:24:10 <gammafunk> now there is a piety costed ability also available (serpent's lash) at 1* to use in conjunction with whirlwind
17:24:18 <gammafunk> so I'm not sure how strong that is
17:24:53 <gammafunk> but I also don't know how strong pin is in an absolute sense
17:25:19 <gammafunk> I think since it doesn't prevent monster attacks it can't be that strong
17:25:27 <gammafunk> also considering that you're hitting with less damage
17:26:00 <gammafunk> but I could be wrong about that certainly; I just doubt it's brokenly powerful unless I don't understand what the effect is
17:32:11 <SteelNeuron> I agree
17:32:18 <SteelNeuron> btw serpent's lash, as per the PR, is at ***
17:32:31 <SteelNeuron> lunge is -, whirlwind *, jump **, lash ***
17:32:40 <amalloy> gammafunk: my best guess as to what pin would be good for is stairdancing
17:32:48 <amalloy> you can force a one-tile gap with it
17:33:23 <amalloy> so you can safely disengage from a single powerful monster
17:33:42 <amalloy> but i think serpent's lash gives a similar effect?
17:33:57 <amalloy> ??serpent's lash
17:33:57 <Sequell> wu jian[5/8]: Serpent's Lash: Instant ability with Exhaustion and a moderate Piety cost. Causes your next two movement actions to be instant, and boosts your martial attacks during them.
17:34:05 <gammafunk> I think you have to use martial moves to gain that advantage
17:34:11 <gammafunk> for lash
17:34:26 <gammafunk> oh maybe it's not conditioned on that? again I really need to sit down and look at things in detail
17:34:37 <gammafunk> blame wand charge code being hard!
17:35:22 <amalloy> as someone who has played very little recently, and even less WJC, the thing that stands out to me the most from WJC's powers is that they are very good at retreating
17:35:43 <amalloy> ??lunge
17:35:44 <Sequell> wu jian[2/8]: Lunge: Triggered by moving towards an enemy. Deals extra damage against slowed or distracted enemies.
17:36:47 <gammafunk> finally, zin has competition
17:48:15 <SteelNeuron> so, on serpent's lash
17:48:23 <SteelNeuron> it doesn't actually require you to activate martial attacks at all
17:48:37 <SteelNeuron> that could be a possible restriction
17:48:37 <SteelNeuron> you can just use it to walk away
17:48:47 <SteelNeuron> like a very short range cblink
17:49:55 <SteelNeuron> wow, those Sequell WJC descriptions are quite old :)
17:50:04 <gammafunk> yeah, feel free to update
17:50:18 <SteelNeuron> Will do once it stabilizes for a bit
17:50:36 <gammafunk> yeah, two free unconditional movments is pretty strong
17:50:46 <gammafunk> otoh it is a piety-costed ability I think?
17:50:50 <SteelNeuron> yeah
17:51:03 <SteelNeuron> I halved that cost, atm it's 2 piety and 15 ish turns of exhaustion
17:51:11 <gammafunk> oh right, with a cooldown
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