00:06:23 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/642 * 0.21-a0-433-g1d411d6: Add CK_RESIZE to console input handling 10(2 weeks ago, 4 files, 57+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1d411d6a8843
00:06:23 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/642 * 0.21-a0-434-g65c38cf: Add tile_def_info() helper 10(9 days ago, 1 file, 8+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/65c38cf90aad
00:06:23 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/642 * 0.21-a0-435-g31f79b3: Add prototype hierarchical UI system 10(9 days ago, 4 files, 904+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/31f79b3ac4c9
00:06:23 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/642 * 0.21-a0-436-g94b15b0: Add debug drawing 10(9 days ago, 2 files, 12+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/94b15b08a83f
00:06:23 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/642 * 0.21-a0-437-gfc37443: Add widget preferred size caching 10(9 days ago, 2 files, 16+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fc37443b0bcb
00:06:23 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/642 * 0.21-a0-438-gb6a28fc: Fix word-wrapping of text with embedded newlines 10(8 days ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b6a28fc58b2c
00:06:23 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/642 * 0.21-a0-439-g6902c0d: Add crt/sdl-specific widget margin helpers 10(7 days ago, 1 file, 13+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6902c0d82c0e
00:06:23 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/642 * 0.21-a0-440-ga1b3577: Account for newlines when finding text widget width 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 7+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a1b357791c4b
00:06:23 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/642 * 0.21-a0-441-gde3f881: Use shared pointers for UI widgets 10(4 days ago, 2 files, 14+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/de3f881126df
00:06:23 <Cheibriados> 03Aidan Holm02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/642 * 0.21-a0-442-g08f9ac8: Add rowspan, colspan, and flex_grow to grid 10(4 days ago, 2 files, 84+ 56-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/08f9ac8d8533
00:06:23 <Cheibriados> ... and 12 more commits
02:25:17 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
02:28:08 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
02:45:51 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-442-g848f44b
03:11:20 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
03:34:12 <SteelNeuron> Hey
03:34:16 <SteelNeuron> Question for people who know their way around the code base:
03:34:34 <SteelNeuron> Is there any general purpose maintenance function that is called per-monster at the end of each turn? (after monster actions)
04:45:53 <mumra> SteelNeuron: turns don't exactly work like that. but handle_monster_move in mon-act.cc is where individual monster actions are actually happened
04:46:15 <SteelNeuron> I see
04:46:35 <SteelNeuron> So if I were to do something to a monster after it has spent all its energy for the turn, and I know it won't do anything else until the next player action, would I go there?
04:46:43 <SteelNeuron> Or will that function be called multiple times in a turn
04:54:01 <mumra> it could be called more than once between player actions yeah
04:54:20 <mumra> it doesn't sound great to subvert the energy system tho? what is you're trying to do exactly
04:56:46 <SteelNeuron> I don't really want to mess around with energy per se, I'm just trying to figure out how to express an enchantment duration in a slightly different way
04:56:52 <SteelNeuron> basically, it lasts until the player moves again
04:57:31 <mumra> probably do that on the player turn then
04:59:38 <mumra> when the player actually moves, loop through all monsters and cancel the enchantment
05:00:29 <SteelNeuron> cool :) I'll try that
05:16:21 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
05:26:01 <SteelNeuron> Now I'm just confused why the enchantment degree drops to 0 by itself :')
05:33:26 <SteelNeuron> ah got it nvm
05:54:24 <Cheibriados> 03SteelNeuron02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/652 * 0.21-a0-447-g8aba818: Refactor and fix Whirlwind Pin 10(7 minutes ago, 5 files, 28+ 20-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8aba81869137
06:15:13 <Cheibriados> 03SteelNeuron02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/652 * 0.21-a0-447-gc9b6dcd: Refactor and fix Whirlwind Pin 10(28 minutes ago, 5 files, 29+ 20-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c9b6dcdf4b2b
07:14:42 <Ge0ff> There's a problem with the scoreboard: links to CUE morgue files still have ":81" (see jannitor's page that was updated on 2017-11-14)
08:05:45 <Cheibriados> 03SteelNeuron02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/652 * 0.21-a0-447-g95055b3: Refactor and fix Whirlwind Pin 10(2 hours ago, 5 files, 34+ 25-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/95055b3cceed
08:16:25 <|amethyst> hm
08:16:34 <|amethyst> thought I fixed that
08:16:55 <|amethyst> oh, doh, no I didn't
08:16:57 <|amethyst> sigh
08:20:08 <|amethyst> !tell Zibudo CJR's /meta/0.18 and /meta/0.17 seem to have disappeared
08:20:08 <Sequell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let zibudo know.
08:33:27 <|amethyst> Ge0ff:  ok, those will be fixed as the player pages are regenerated, which will take a few hours to finish
08:33:50 <Ge0ff> |amethyst: Thanks!
08:33:58 <|amethyst> hmm
08:34:10 <|amethyst> I think I might have just duplicated *more* cjr games
08:34:22 <|amethyst> sigh
08:34:40 <|amethyst> I'll get around to doing a full rebuild at some point, it's just a pain and takes forever
09:17:11 <advil> %git 0db9e8bca03fa71f3a3e379
09:17:11 <Cheibriados> 07MarvinPA02 * 0.20-a0-1041-g0db9e8b: Fix a Slime vault being able to place stairs next to acid walls (#11031) 10(7 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0db9e8bca03f
09:36:25 <advil> %git 56314776da11a9ae22ec072b7c
09:36:25 <Cheibriados> 07|amethyst02 * 0.20-a0-397-g5631477: Actually prevent running/resting next to slime walls (doh) 10(11 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/56314776da11
09:40:00 <advil> somewhat puzzled by this report as described: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?p=322933#p322933
09:40:09 <advil> but something is weird, because I see no _ in the morgue
09:41:19 <advil> it should be after 5631477 because it is 0.20.1
10:28:34 <Eksell> zero (L14 GrBe)  (D:14)
14:06:00 <advil> !crashlog
14:06:13 <Sequell> 18107. zero, XL14 GrBe, T:25863 (milestone): http://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/zero/crash-zero-20171115-152833.txt
14:07:33 <advil> if I wanted to volunteer to write a trunk update, how would I get access to the blog?
14:07:39 <advil> (notice the careful phrasing)
14:07:58 <advil> it seems that people just don't believe anything is happening unless someone writes those
14:08:06 <advil> !blame PF for training them
14:08:07 <Sequell> I pronounce PF for training them... Guilty!
14:09:30 <gammafunk> advil: yeah, I was going to write one; I have some wand stacking code I'm hopefully going to merge today or tomorrow
14:09:39 <advil> ah ok, if you want to do it by all means :)
14:09:54 <gammafunk> ok, I'll try to really get that done as soon as possible, since yeah it's been a long time
14:10:03 <amalloy> advil: PF usually gave wordpress access during the new-dev welcoming party
14:10:12 <advil> also I guess we should come up with at least a plan for how to respond to questions about a tournament
14:10:23 <advil> or a plan for a tournament :)
14:10:39 <amalloy> i can log into wordpress but i don't know my way around so i don't know how to find out if you have an account
14:10:45 <gammafunk> right....so I hadn't brought up tournament since obviously we've been making slow progress this version (although we are definitely making progress)
14:11:17 <advil> yeah, it would be nice to have a few more things for a release
14:11:20 <gammafunk> WJC has some commits ready to go after we go over them; we should definitely get that merged sooner rather than later, and I can start on that after wand merging
14:11:39 <gammafunk> right, it would be nice if we could get WJC in I feel, although it is also not required (and I'm not sure if there will be major issues)
14:11:40 <advil> but people keep asking, and historically dec is the latest we've done it on the 6 month cycle
14:11:55 <gammafunk> yeah, but there's also a question of timing
14:12:09 <gammafunk> would a late december tourney be a bad idea?
14:12:15 <gammafunk> would early-mid january be better?
14:13:18 <gammafunk> I wouldn't terribly like to try for early december; mid december feels ok but then we're so close to holidays (and maybe things like finals?)
14:13:25 <gammafunk> so I'm not sure how people feel about that timing
14:13:49 <gammafunk> also if we're to run the tourney, we need |amethyst to get dobrazupra.org back online, or we'd need to find another host
14:14:14 <gammafunk> but that's probably not too big a deal
14:14:41 <advil> I looked through the WJC code before the last two commits and didn't spot any major issues aside from some bracket formatting, if anything it cleaned up some code issues (because the walljump behavior is a lot cleaner). but I didn't test it
14:14:42 <gammafunk> I'm not sure which devs aside from myself are most invested in tournament timing
14:15:06 <advil> I think late dec vs early dec will impact some finals periods no matter what
14:15:17 <gammafunk> advil: that's good; I haven't looked at his commits; SteelNeuron made that patch impressively fast, not sure if it has issues
14:15:40 <advil> yeah, the changes needed were simpler than I was expecting
14:15:44 <gammafunk> however a main concern is that the design is reasonable, and hopefully that's the case. I just need to go over it and maybe consult once with elliptic and possibly MPA if he has time
14:16:16 <gammafunk> and of course anyone else who had concerns
14:16:45 <gammafunk> yes, any time in december is probably going to cause at least some people problems; have we done a tourney in december before?
14:16:48 <gammafunk> I actually forget
14:16:52 <gammafunk> would have to look at all those kw
14:16:58 <gammafunk> !kw t0.15
14:16:58 <Sequell> Built-in: t0.15 => start>='2014-08-29 20:00:00' time<'2014-09-14 20:00:00' cv=0.15 explbr=
14:17:01 <advil> yeah, we have
14:17:05 <gammafunk> !kw t0.17
14:17:06 <Sequell> Built-in: t0.17 => start>='2015-11-06 20:00:00' time<'2015-11-22 20:00:00' ((cv=0.17|0.17-a)) explbr=
14:17:12 <gammafunk> !kw t0.19
14:17:12 <Sequell> Built-in: t0.19 => start>='2016-11-04 20:00:00' time<'2016-11-20 20:00:00' ((cv=0.19|0.19-a)) explbr=
14:17:17 <gammafunk> !kw t0.13
14:17:18 <Sequell> Built-in: t0.13 => start>='2013-10-11 20:00:00' time<'2013-10-27 20:00:00' cv=0.13 explbr=
14:17:19 <advil> hm
14:17:22 <advil> maybe I lied
14:17:22 <gammafunk> !kw t0.111
14:17:23 <Sequell> Unknown tourney version: 0.111
14:17:23 <gammafunk> oops
14:17:25 <gammafunk> !kw t0.11
14:17:26 <Sequell> Built-in: t0.11 => start>=20121020 time<20121105 cv=0.11 explbr=
14:17:29 <advil> ok
14:17:33 <gammafunk> !kw t0.9
14:17:33 <Sequell> Built-in: t0.9 => start>=20110813 time<20110829 ((cv=0.9|0.9-a)) explbr=
14:17:55 <gammafunk> maybe at some point in earlier history we did
14:17:57 <gammafunk> !kw t0.7
14:17:57 <Sequell> Built-in: t0.7 => start>=20100801 time<20100901 cv=0.7 explbr=
14:18:09 <gammafunk> seems we were going more september at one point
14:18:17 <advil> I checked it a while ago and I think I was wondering about oct vs nov then, and misremembered that as nov vs dec
14:18:18 <gammafunk> we're slowly moving the date back...
14:18:22 <advil> heh
14:18:24 <gammafunk> !kw t0.5
14:18:24 <Sequell> Built-in: t0.5 => start>=20090801 time<20090901 cv=0.5 explbr=
14:18:30 <gammafunk> welp
14:18:53 <advil> I'd prefer to have one (as would players I think, I've even seen a request for one even if there is no release)
14:19:05 <gammafunk> oh I definitely want to have one
14:19:16 <gammafunk> I'm just concerned about what would be good timing for our release
14:19:28 <gammafunk> like I think doing one very soon...well
14:19:35 <gammafunk> I guess we *could* just do another one but
14:19:53 <advil> it'll be a bit lean
14:19:53 <gammafunk> if we get in WJC we definitely have enough major features for a release
14:19:53 <advil> yeah true
14:20:09 <advil> I'm planning on prototyping a ghost vault thing over thanksgiving week (we have classes off)
14:20:13 <gammafunk> nice
14:20:26 <gammafunk> I never did my further writeup based on feedback from neil
14:20:30 <gammafunk> but you were there for that convo I think
14:20:32 <gammafunk> neil and lasty
14:20:40 <advil> I think my fixedp stuff should wait until a new version cycle, not that that impacts players at all
14:21:11 <gammafunk> sorry but you're wrong; player will refuse to play a game without proper fixed point arithmetic
14:21:15 <gammafunk> :)
14:21:42 <gammafunk> just imagine the negative reviews pouring in from kotaku
14:21:45 <advil> the next thing I'm going to do in that branch is make spell training as continuous as precision allows, which some players probably will love
14:22:07 <gammafunk> for fail rates?
14:22:11 <advil> yeah
14:22:21 <advil> this is all an outgrowth of that project really
14:22:24 <gammafunk> I do recall various complaints about jump points
14:22:41 <gammafunk> also aidanh just put a gargantuan number of commits in his branch
14:22:44 <advil> yeah, I tightened them some, but was hitting issues because of all the ad-hoc multiply by 100 stuff
14:22:45 <gammafunk> for Tiles UI reform
14:22:51 <advil> yes, I saw that
14:23:07 <advil> I'm behind on merging aidanh commits :-/
14:24:06 <gammafunk> hrm, well I don't have an answer about release timing, but I'll get my commits pushed today and set about writing an update, which I can post a draft here
14:24:18 -!- ProzacElf_ is now known as ProzacElf
14:24:52 <gammafunk> Players are asking about tournament, so I agree we should tell them something, but I'm not sure what the best move would be there
14:25:59 <gammafunk> I have to set aside a bit of extra time for 16 days (really more than that, since there's pre-tourney setup), so I don't like the idea of squeezing it in; I sort of favor maybe an early january tourney
14:26:12 <gammafunk> but I don't know if that messes people up or if it's otherwise a problem
14:28:22 <gammafunk> so I'll say that 'operationally' we can aim for an early january tournament, but if that's going to be a major problem for some reason, people should let me know
14:35:29 <advil> if release has Gn / WJC / wand stacking / training targets / bugfixes that's probably enough, and wjc is the biggest wildcard there, so I guess that's what we need to figure out before deciding on exact timing
14:36:16 <advil> re the current stuff in PR, I'm not sure there's much of a downside to merging it as long as the code is ok
14:37:44 <advil> the thing I'm least sure if is when you'd actually use the new walljump, but the change gets rid of the UI nightmare with the old one, so it's a net positive even so imo
14:39:36 <advil> an early jan tournament wouldn't be super great for me personally but it's doable (I just won't play much)
14:39:49 <advil> it should at least overlap with breaks for a lot of students on semester systems
14:42:46 <gammafunk> yeah, I'm more talking logistically; obviously some people (including some devs) will have trouble with any specific period
14:43:37 <gammafunk> but january gives us time to make a good release and works well for me in terms of running the tournament
14:44:29 <advil> I'll only be semi-around from ~Dec 29 - Jan 8, and not at all around Jan 9-11 (I think I'll literally be in a government building with no wifi then) so personally something like Dec 15-24 would work a lot better for me if I'm contributing to any logistics
14:45:34 <advil> but iirc I didn't need to do anything much during the last tournament?
14:46:00 <gammafunk> I basically ran last tournament, yeah, but I think you did some script changes?
14:46:14 <gammafunk> I don't forsee there being anything major in terms of tournament scripts this time
14:46:25 <amalloy> i didn't realize you ran the last one, gammafunk. or maybe i knew but forgot. thanks!
14:46:32 <gammafunk> oh np
14:46:45 <amalloy> !lg . t0.20
14:46:46 <Sequell> No games for amalloy (t0.20).
14:46:51 <amalloy> rip
14:47:00 <advil> this is only my 2nd tournament as a dev so I still have only a hazy idea of what's involved
14:47:05 <gammafunk> it's a pretty low-key thing and generally doesn't require a ton of effort or anything, but there definitely needs to be someone responsible for setup + maintenance
14:47:38 <gammafunk> and I usually do the major builds for the release as well, but we do need your help for the OS X build
14:47:55 <gammafunk> let's see
14:48:36 <gammafunk> say we aimed for Jan 05, would you be able to at least do an OS X build for 0.21 in that timeframe?
14:48:49 <advil> probably, yeah
14:48:52 <advil> jan 5 release?
14:48:55 <gammafunk> yeah
14:49:01 <gammafunk> that would be the friday of the tourney
14:49:14 <gammafunk> so either that day of release, or day before (or day before that; just close to jan 5)
14:49:19 <gammafunk> that's the first friday of Jan
14:50:40 <gammafunk> and if we don't have an OS X build on jan 5, it's certainly not end of the world; nice if we do have it ready within a week of that
14:51:06 <gammafunk> if you can't, I think we can get someone else to do the OS X build
14:57:34 <advil> I can do it then, it's not a problem
14:57:49 <advil> I just won't have a lot of time to sit down and do anything particularly intensive with crawl
14:58:01 <gammafunk> sounds good
14:58:31 <gammafunk> my plan to be the only dev with tournament wins is falling into place...
14:58:36 <advil> heh
14:58:54 <gammafunk> I may need to have PF or someone release a new game to distract amalloy
14:59:12 <advil> I usually try to win a DDBe in tournaments where I have no time, but I haven't actually played a DD since the wand changes
14:59:35 <gammafunk> oh it's quit good, funny you should mention DDBe during tournament
14:59:41 <gammafunk> !lg :gammafunk ddbe
14:59:42 <Sequell> No games for :gammafunk (ddbe).
14:59:44 <gammafunk> er
14:59:46 <gammafunk> oh
14:59:50 <gammafunk> !lg :gammafunk ddfi
14:59:51 <Sequell> 2. gammafunk the Executioner (L24 DDFi of Makhleb), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2017-05-29 04:34:39, with 2400116 points after 34678 turns and 2:03:58.
14:59:57 <gammafunk> not ddbe, sorry
15:00:15 <amalloy> yeah i don't think the wand changes really hurt DD at all
15:00:22 <gammafunk> ddbe puts a little more tax on that heal, but that was a "realtime" attempt
15:00:28 <gammafunk> my fastest win at 2h
15:00:43 <amalloy> !lg . won min=dur x=dur
15:00:44 <Sequell> 65. [dur=4:34:04] amalloy the Wrestler (L25 GrMo of Makhleb), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2015-11-04 21:19:35, with 1815733 points after 54676 turns and 4:34:04.
15:00:50 <gammafunk> my first win of 0.20 tourney iirc
15:00:54 <amalloy> makhleb OP
15:01:00 <advil> I have no fast realtime games
15:01:04 <gammafunk> obv we need to nerf
15:01:09 <amalloy> !lg advil won min=dur x=dur
15:01:10 <Sequell> 52. [dur=4:33:10] advil the Axe Maniac (L27 MiFi of Qazlal), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2015-05-02 03:45:52, with 1792869 points after 65283 turns and 4:33:10.
15:01:27 <amalloy> advil: you are still faster than the one time i tried for realtime
15:01:27 <advil> ok I guess that's not terrible
15:01:55 <advil> !lg . dd won t|t0.19|t0.18|t0.17|t0.16 s=combo
15:01:56 <Sequell> Unknown field: combo
15:02:01 <advil> !lg . dd won t|t0.19|t0.18|t0.17|t0.16 s=class
15:02:02 <amalloy> advil: tall
15:02:02 <Sequell> One game for advil (dd won ((t || t0.19 || t0.18 || t0.17 || t0.16))): Berserker
15:02:11 <amalloy> !kw tall
15:02:12 <Sequell> Keyword: tall => t*
15:02:15 <advil> ah
15:02:16 <gammafunk> char is the field for that btw
15:02:24 <advil> !lg . dd won tall s=class
15:02:25 <Sequell> 2 games for advil (dd won tall): 2x Berserker
15:02:32 <gammafunk> maybe not the most intuitive field name
15:02:41 <advil> my memories had exaggerated that 2x a bit
15:02:58 <gammafunk> I can't actually play DDBe
15:03:02 <gammafunk> !greatplayer . !gn
15:03:06 <amalloy> !lastgames . dd
15:03:06 <gammafunk> !greaterplayer
15:03:06 <Sequell> Unwon species for gammafunk (!gn): Minotaur
15:03:09 <Sequell> Last 10 games for amalloy: L25 DDBe^Trog (winning), L27 DDEE^Makh (winning), L26 DDAs^Makh (winning), L23 DDAs^Makh (a reaper), L2 DDEE^ (a gnoll), L6 DDNe^ (Pikel), L6 DDEE^ (Duvessa), L1 DDTm^ (quitting), L5 DDWr^Makh (an orc wizard), L8 DDHe^Ely (a killer bee)
15:03:10 <Sequell> Unwon backgrounds for gammafunk: Berserker
15:03:15 <gammafunk> so that I don't ruin that joke
15:03:25 <advil> heh
15:03:30 <advil> !lg . mibe
15:03:31 <Sequell> No games for advil (mibe).
15:03:34 <SteelNeuron> Just caught up btw. I was also surprised that the WJC changes were relatively easy to implement. I've played three or four hours with them, no issues I could find but we all get tunnel vision when testing our own code so...
15:03:43 <SteelNeuron> Take it for what it is :)
15:03:55 <gammafunk> yeah, that's good; after I get wand merging + trunk update
15:04:04 <gammafunk> looking that over will be my next project
15:04:10 <SteelNeuron> cool
15:04:55 <gammafunk> if advil feels strongly that it's ready to merge now he can, and I can just look over after, but I will definitely be doing so (this time)
15:05:48 <advil> well there were a few more commits since I looked, so I'd have to spend a bit more time with it
15:06:16 <advil> which I could do
15:07:20 <amalloy> heh, wand merging reminds me: at the roguelike celebration, adeon, who apparently holds both the longest streak and realtime record in nethack, asked me when we were going to get more than 52 items slots, as well as please bring back mountain dwarves
15:07:30 <gammafunk> haha
15:07:37 <amalloy> if i'd known you were merging wands i could have told him that'll help
15:07:38 <gammafunk> that's cool, I think I've heard the name
15:07:45 <gammafunk> does he also do roguelike dev?
15:08:04 <amalloy> i don't think so. plenty of people there were "just" players
15:08:10 <gammafunk> oh that's neat
15:08:17 <gammafunk> right, he was doing nethack runs there at the conference
15:08:18 <amalloy> it was around 50% devs
15:08:22 <amalloy> yeah
15:08:26 <advil> I got that impression from the QA, it was sort of interesting that that was true
15:09:29 <advil> I'm not sure it would ever occur to me as a player to go to something like that
15:09:54 <gammafunk> yeah, maybe if you were a big fan of a particular game and the dev of the game was showing up
15:10:02 <gammafunk> or if you were just a huge roguelikes fan in general
15:10:50 <gammafunk> "sprigganassassin is now following you on Twitch"
15:10:54 <advil> I guess this is the closest thing that there is to a roguelike con
15:11:00 <gammafunk> their avatar is the cwz spriggan of ru art
15:11:20 <gammafunk> but I'm pretty sure this is just elliptic's twitch account
15:11:27 <amalloy> i watched some of the videos from last year, and i laughed a few times at biskup's talk. notably, he has apparently put in his will that when he dies, the source code for ADOM will be released if and only if the death was of natural causes
15:11:36 <gammafunk> lol
15:11:37 <amalloy> to avoid creating undesirable incentives for eager players
15:12:03 <gammafunk> I'm not sure that "natural causes" condition is enough
15:12:16 <gammafunk> players could be crafty enough to make it *look* like natural causes
15:13:09 <amalloy> and also he put a "just for fun" donation incentive in his crowdraising campaign: for $50,000 he would print out the entire ADOM codebase, bind it in 10 large tomes, and personally deliver them to you and hang out for a weekend
15:13:35 <amalloy> 3 minutes after publishing that, he got an email from someone who tried to donate $50,000 but indiegogo wouldn't let him
15:13:45 <amalloy> (it was notch)
15:13:48 <gammafunk> haha
15:13:53 <gammafunk> hrm
15:14:19 <gammafunk> apparently people were saying adom is going to get some huge revamp and there's some kind of angel investor?
15:14:23 <amalloy> yes
15:14:37 <amalloy> he announced that sunday morning; i can find you the vod if you like
15:15:11 <gammafunk> I was only vaguely curious; I'm not an ADOM fan after all
15:15:19 <gammafunk> too much like nethack for me
15:15:19 <advil> https://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/7chf8p/thomas_biskup_announces_adom_300_external_funding/
15:15:50 <advil> I played adom for like 20 minutes once
15:15:53 <advil> it didn't stick
15:16:11 <advil> too complicated
15:17:12 <amalloy> advil: biskup gave me a version that might be simple enough for you
15:17:48 <advil> oh?
15:18:05 <amalloy> he went searching for the oldest versions he could dig up (0.0.1 and 0.0.2) and put them onto fancy adom-branded USB sticks
15:18:09 <advil> heh
15:18:26 <advil> apparently one of the announcements was a simplified phone version of adom
15:18:40 <amalloy> 0.0.1 "only works on unix, and there's a bug that crashes the game when you get to level 99 so it's impossible to win. but that's okay because it was before i knew how to implement saving"
15:21:02 <amalloy> if i were an ADOM player i would be skeptical that ultimate is too ambitious to actually happen, but as someone who doesn't play i wish him the best of luck
15:21:41 <advil> yeah, seems in the URR category of roguelikes
15:21:47 <advil> which could actually happen!
15:22:58 <amalloy> huh! i just went to look at adeon's nethack scoreboard (https://scoreboard.xd.cm/players/A/Adeon.all.html) and it is strikingly similar to CAO's. i didn't realize we'd copied that: does it come with dgamelaunch or something?
15:23:28 <gammafunk> not part of dgamelaunch I don't thin, but forked from that codebase I believe?
15:28:27 <advil> btw I don't think I have a wordpress account
15:28:46 <advil> not that I especially need one
15:30:40 -!- Danei[notDanei] is now known as Danei[
15:31:06 -!- Danei[ is now known as Danei[jazz]
15:31:08 <gammafunk> Napkin: could you give advil a wordpress account when you have the chance?
15:32:52 -!- Danei[jazz] is now known as Danei[jazz_inten
15:33:49 -!- Danei[jazz_inten is now known as Danei[jazz_jazz]
15:37:35 -!- Danei[jazz_jazz] is now known as Danei[{jazz}]
15:58:17 <Napkin> could you ping me again tomorrow?
15:58:39 <Napkin> well.. advil, you in?
16:29:58 -!- Euph0ria is now known as OpenMind
16:30:39 -!- OpenMind is now known as Open_Mind
16:38:09 <gammafunk> Napkin: sure, will do
16:39:11 <Napkin> thanks, i'm too deep in Feierabend already ;-)
16:40:53 <Adeon> amalloy: hey, I totally develop roguelikes
16:40:59 <Adeon> it's just that none of them are very finished
16:41:09 <amalloy> oh yeah, i forgot, you said you hang out in here
16:41:42 <Adeon> next year I might try to push a talk on my developments instead
16:41:57 <Adeon> the nethack run was pretty intense
16:42:00 <Adeon> won't do that again
16:42:02 <amalloy> haha
16:42:13 <amalloy> i should watch the vod of that. i couldn't stay to watch it live
16:42:25 <Adeon> it went about as perfectly as it could
16:42:38 <Adeon> I estimated my success at 30% and nailed it in front of live audience
16:42:51 <Adeon> and very competitive time overall as far nethack games go
16:44:42 <gammafunk> shame that 78291 isn't around
16:44:46 <gammafunk> he also had a lot of nethack wins
16:45:30 <gammafunk> 30% winrate for an expert nethack player? wow, that game really is harder than DCSS
16:46:47 <gammafunk> I have maybe 8 nethack wins total over maybe 5 roles, and I don't have a very good sense of how reliably you can win that game
16:49:41 <Adeon> 30% when your time limit is 2 hours
16:50:12 <Adeon> can pull >90% if there were no constraints
16:51:00 <Adeon> I don't think it's a particularly difficult game if you know all the mechanics unless you go out your way to make it difficult
16:51:44 <bhaak> first rule of winning nethack: spam Elbereth
16:52:05 <bhaak> if you think you are better than that, you are already dead
16:53:33 <gammafunk> oh I see, you have a time limit as well
16:53:48 <gammafunk> they nerfed Elbereth in the latest version though!
16:54:09 <bhaak> amalloy: that scoreboard looks oddly familiar because it was copied from yours :)
16:54:15 <bhaak> gammafunk: not hard enough
16:54:29 <gammafunk> well that's a shame
16:54:35 <gammafunk> nerf it to the ground
16:57:09 <advil> hmm, has anyone ever considered an elbereth-based april fools day thing (for dcss)?
17:01:48 <gammafunk> advil: we could do an april 1st "steal from other roguelikes" thing
17:02:02 <gammafunk> it's nice if there's a couple things to it and common theme connecting them
17:02:10 <gammafunk> could take like 3 relatively simple things
17:02:19 <gammafunk> something from doomrl?
17:02:27 <gammafunk> elbereth from nethack
17:02:27 <advil> heh yeah that could be fun
17:02:45 <gammafunk> doesn't have to be limited to three, but at least a few would be good
17:02:52 <gammafunk> I could steal some things from infra arcana for sure
17:02:59 <gammafunk> death fiends!
17:03:27 <advil> the town start from angband/moria
17:03:29 <gammafunk> zombie dust would be cool
17:03:32 <gammafunk> ooh, yeah
17:03:41 <gammafunk> potentially a lot of work, depending on what you wanted to do
17:03:46 <gammafunk> but good flavor
17:04:03 <advil> it does sound a bit ambitious, and the trick with any of these would also be not to mess up games too much
17:04:17 <gammafunk> well, we've talked about this a few times
17:04:29 <gammafunk> last successful april 1st we did nostalgia
17:04:44 <gammafunk> which was a special hosted branch
17:04:49 <advil> ah I see
17:05:08 <gammafunk> so I think that's probably what we'd want to do, is sort of ready a branch "in secret" (just don't make the commits public)
17:05:19 <gammafunk> and then we could either just link to it or replace the trunk link with it
17:05:43 <gammafunk> that requires some server coordination but if the branch is set up ahead of time, it's not too bad
17:05:50 <gammafunk> and we don't really need it on every server necessarilly
17:06:27 <gammafunk> also I realize another thing I need to do is prepare some kind of report on the survey we took
17:06:40 <gammafunk> that would be a good thing to put together next month if possible
17:06:46 <gammafunk> need to do some processing on that data
17:11:21 <bhaak> hey, you already got Grunt from nethack development. isn't that enough stealing from other roguelikes?
17:11:47 <amalloy> simple things to steal from another roguelike for april first: various kinds of clouds of gas from brogue
17:14:09 <bhaak> is there a berzerk mode in DCSS as in DoomRL?
17:14:57 <amalloy> bhaak: there is a berserk status effect that looks similar to doomrl's
17:15:11 <amalloy> ??berserk
17:15:11 <Sequell> berserk[1/10]: Grants {might}, {haste} and 50% extra HP. lasts 100-195 auts, as long as you're attacking monsters. This duration increases on kills if wearing the {necklace of bloodlust} or worshipping {Trog}.
17:16:16 <gammafunk> bhaak: sadly Grunt retired
17:17:07 <gammafunk> amalloy: probably some things we could steal from hyperrogue, but I have no idea what
17:17:23 <amalloy> easy. give the player 1HP
17:17:42 <advil> 1hp for elbereth, seems fair
17:17:44 <amalloy> don't make any of the other changes that would make that useable
17:17:53 <gammafunk> harsh
17:19:14 <bhaak> a robotfindskitten level would also be pretty easy to do (technically not a roguelike, though)
17:19:53 <amalloy> in a non-april-fools context, i think brogue has a lot of cool ideas. most of them it would be hard to retrofit into dcss, but i was thinking that we could add more interactable environment bits
17:20:26 <advil> pits
17:22:11 <amalloy> like, their traps are way cooler than ours. pressure plates that quickly fill a room with toxic gas. it's fun to like...plan to step on one and try to get away before you suffocate, while leaving the monsters trapped inside
17:23:12 <amalloy> and yes, pits. i had fun luring an ogre into a patch of grass, then levitating away over a nearby pit so i could torch the grass with my staff of firebolt
17:23:15 <geekosaur> we had that at one point, no?
17:28:14 <gammafunk> amalloy: well, more interesting features is in part why I made transporters, but features in DCSS are tough to get right
17:28:42 <amalloy> what do you mean, get right?
17:28:47 <gammafunk> probably because it has such a strong combat focus and combat is frequent
17:29:08 <gammafunk> that introducing more elaborate traps can feel like unecessary interruption of the game
17:29:32 <gammafunk> in terms of how traps work currently; they just interrupt you with a quick negative effect for the most part
17:30:30 <gammafunk> a trap in DCSS that filled a room with gas, for example, how would you make that work in DCSS?
17:31:32 <gammafunk> and yeah, the flipside of having traps that you lure monsters to is that you'll want to do that for a bunch of monsters (this is the problem people have when worshiping Fedhas; it gets tiresome quickly)
17:32:50 <gammafunk> Not saying there's any kind of 'veto' on new features by any means
17:33:40 <amalloy> yeah, reusable traps with effects that can help the player are not a good fit. i wonder if you could do something with use-once effects that would be fun but not overbearing
17:34:18 <amalloy> like a destructible bit of wall or something
17:35:08 <gammafunk> sure, definitely possible
17:35:23 <gammafunk> aside from getting the effect right, there's also the issue of getting them close to relevant monsters
17:35:47 <gammafunk> I don't know how brogue maps allow monsters and trap to be in proximity
17:35:58 <gammafunk> dcss maps are pretty big
17:36:17 <amalloy> i don't know either. i've only played a dozen or so games of brogue, none very long
17:36:51 <gammafunk> I should win it some time
17:37:20 <gammafunk> I've nearly won all of infra arcanas classes a couple times (only one to go)
17:37:20 <gammafunk> will need a new roguelike eventually
17:38:08 <amalloy> the thing that got me to go back and try brogue again was the item-only character progression. no xp for killing monsters, so you actually aren't punished for playing an avoid-monsters kind of thing. and since you can't control the items you find you have to improvise, whereas all MiBe play about the same
17:38:17 <amalloy> of course we can't do anything like that for dcss
17:40:09 <gammafunk> yeah, and btw, if you like alternate systems like that which grant progression not for killing monsters, infra arcana's is very nice
17:40:18 <gammafunk> it gives XP for seeing each new type of item and monster
17:40:31 <gammafunk> and a small amount for going deeper to the next level
17:40:57 <gammafunk> and monster avoidance is important; you gain shock continuously, and at higher rates when monsters are in view
17:41:29 <gammafunk> if that gets to 100% you increase your insanity a permanent (but fairly small) amount, and you die if you reach 100% insanity
17:41:43 <gammafunk> you usually die from losing all HP first, since you don't have too much of that :)
17:41:55 <gammafunk> but it's a pretty good game that's difficult and has nice progression
17:42:05 <gammafunk> it also has some annoyances, but it's fun
17:42:58 <amalloy> hm, i'll listen to the roguelike radio about infra arcana. i know very little about it
17:43:01 <gammafunk> progression in that game is tied to both items you find and to traits you choose as you level up
17:43:30 <gammafunk> so you can make any game somewhat different, however some traits you will always want at some point and there's generally an "ideal" progression for most roles
17:43:38 <gammafunk> but you can definitely choose some different paths
17:43:47 <gammafunk> it's probably more like doomrl in that regard I guess
18:50:49 <bh> grr. I can't find my copy of the Book of the Dead source code and dpeg has vanished
19:24:11 <advil> I have no idea what that is but have you tried emailing him?
20:21:49 <minmay> j
22:31:44 -!- mikee__ is now known as mikee_
23:15:46 -!- aditya is now known as adibis
23:18:56 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
23:35:55 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy