00:48:58 <johnstein> what's the secret wizmode way to get mutagenic chunks?
00:48:58 <johnstein> &o%mutagenic chunk doesn't work
00:49:08 <johnstein> currently I'm &oXsky beastcg
02:45:21 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-273-g0785366
03:27:54 <amaril> Is this sort of  suitable for mantis?  When swapping on a ring with a negative property, the game gives you a Y/n prompt twice, once before removing the originally worn ring and once before putting on the harmful ring.
03:28:22 <amaril> "sort of [bug report for something that isn't a bug] suitable"
03:28:55 <geekosaur> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11204
03:29:37 <geekosaur> so, alredy reported (that bug report references another one even)
03:30:50 <amaril> thanks
03:55:26 <johnstein> !source is_inedible
03:55:26 <Sequell> 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/food.cc#L783
03:56:25 <johnstein> so, that function seems to only check if items of basetype FOOD or CORPSES are edible or not. but if you pass a non FOOD/CORPSE item, it will just return false (ie. it's not inedible, ie it's edible).
03:57:20 <johnstein> is this weird? checking all the calling functions, the call is always inside a case for OBJ_FOOD or OBJ_CORPSE, or at least it's checked before passing item that it's FOOD or CORPSE.
03:58:12 <johnstein> that is, looks like all current uses of this routine are always nicely passing CORPSES and FOOD, but I don't see how it's ensured that's always the case. seems like maybe an ASSERT could be useful?
04:58:50 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
08:06:02 <advil> johnstein: `&%sky beast chunk` works, I guess you have to type a monster name
09:01:44 <advil> in everything is connected to everything else news, what broke line pass was removing rods.
09:10:05 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.21-a0-274-gc1afaeb: Fix line pass to not be cblink (11228) 10(13 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c1afaeb04c54
10:09:12 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.21-a0-274-gc1afaeb (34)
11:08:05 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
11:18:19 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
11:46:19 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
13:04:50 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.21-a0-274-gc1afaeb (34)
13:50:31 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
16:08:14 <johnstein> |amethyst: that mutagenic chunk implementable should be interesting. the eat code was a bit more involved than I anticipated
16:08:58 <johnstein> I'm going to ruin my millimarvin count with all the docstrings I'm adding
16:31:49 <Yermak> What is the polisy against bawdy or insulting nicknames on servers?
16:31:54 <Yermak> policy*
16:33:08 <gammafunk> Yermak: up to the server admin; if you're playing on e.g. cxc, you could report to Medar
16:33:13 <ProzacElf> "bawdy:  a-ok!  insulting: boo!"
16:33:19 <ProzacElf> or what gfunk said
16:34:02 <Yermak> Well, that cocksucker at the start of the list is kinda irritating
16:34:34 <gammafunk> yes, but it is Medar's server and we have no way to control account registration ourselves
16:34:40 <ProzacElf> hah
16:34:54 <gammafunk> Patches welcome for a system that allows us to filter username registration from e.g. webtiles
16:35:10 <gammafunk> ??cxc
16:35:11 <Sequell> cXc[1/2]: Server in France: CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM -- ssh port 22, username crawl, uses CAO key (available at http://CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM/crawl/keys/). Webtiles address: http://CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM
16:35:13 <gammafunk> ??cxc[2
16:35:13 <Sequell> cXc[2/2]: Announced by Eksell, which uses | as a prefix. Morgues, ttyrecs etc. are at http://CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM/crawl/. Maintained by Medar and zkyp.
16:35:44 <gammafunk> I think he has an email listed on the lobby if you want to contact him
17:22:15 <johnstein> I hate stupid nicknames
17:22:20 <johnstein> since I'm always worried that trying to regulate it will turn into some arms game
17:28:12 <gammafunk> well it might help if we had some basic filtering
18:02:56 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.21-a0-274-gc1afaeb (34)
18:04:34 <johnstein> I know it's a pipe dream but I'm still hoping for central auth one day
18:06:35 <advil> yeah, would be really nice
18:06:50 <advil> I've contemplated whether to work on it a few times, but it's way above my skill level
18:19:21 <johnstein> the main hurdle is always figuring out how many player name conflicts there are and how to fix that
18:19:39 <johnstein> (there's probably a more fundamental problem that I'm forgetting)
18:20:44 <geekosaur> the real problem is deciding between distributing a centrally maintained user db between servers, or having servers query a central auth server. each of which has its own advantages and disadvantages
18:21:25 <johnstein> I kinda like the idea of each server querying the central auth server
18:21:42 <geekosaur> (a big disadvantage of the former is the need for locking and resulting denial of service if it goes wrong; of the latter, that all servers are effectively dead if the central auth server is down)
18:22:14 <geekosaur> ...or you provide multiple auth servers, which gets you the disadvantages of both ways :p
18:27:00 <ProzacElf> mmm
18:27:25 <ProzacElf> extra disadvantages and no extra benefits?  sounds like a plan!
18:27:36 <geekosaur> I didn't say that :p
18:27:43 <johnstein> is there a good open source or commercial so
18:27:47 <geekosaur> I had highlighted disadvantages, I didn;t mention advantages of any of them
18:27:55 <johnstein> commercial off the shelf solution that people use?
18:28:06 <johnstein> or would we basically have to roll our own?
18:28:39 <geekosaur> you'd want to roll your own. there are plenty of COTS ones, but then you have to integrate them
18:29:01 <geekosaur> if someone held a gun to my head and told me to do that, I'd likely start with a RADIUS server
18:29:49 <geekosaur> (assuming this is about central auth; very few canned solutions for distributed-to-servers ones, aside from NIS which is not adaptable for this)
18:52:17 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
18:55:32 <amalloy> if crawl were just webtiles, i'd want to look into something like openid, to completely reuse google/facebook infrastructure. but i'm not sure about integrating that with console play
19:01:18 <johnstein> !lg * recent / tiles
19:01:21 <Sequell> 1319706/1408341 games for * (recent): N=1319706/1408341 (93.71%)
19:39:59 <advil> haha just imagine login with facebook to play crawl
19:40:10 <advil> that's a nope for me
19:47:30 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
19:47:32 <gammafunk> ??bound soul
19:47:33 <Sequell> bound soul[1/1]: This monster has been ensorcelled by a {necromancer} and will turn into a hostile spectre on death.
19:47:44 <gammafunk> !learn edit bound_soul s/spectre/simulacrum/
19:47:45 <Sequell> bound soul[1/1]: This monster has been ensorcelled by a {necromancer} and will turn into a hostile simulacrum on death.
19:47:59 <gammafunk> ??pain card
19:47:59 <Sequell> pain card[1/1]: By card power, 0: {agony} 1: {bolt of draining} 2: {symbol of torment}
19:49:34 <Lasty> hey folks, what's new?
19:49:34 <Sequell> Lasty: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
19:51:06 <gammafunk> Lasty: not much, nospawn is in, and I'm slowly starting to look over swamp monsters to revamp that branch
19:51:25 <Lasty> wooo!
19:51:30 <Lasty> That's pretty excitin
19:51:31 <Lasty> g
19:51:57 <gammafunk> yeah, I'd like to maybe define a kind of "common set" of swamp monsters more like how we do for the other S branches
19:51:57 <Lasty> Got a big plan for swamp, or still figuring out what makes sense?
19:51:57 <gammafunk> and remove annoying ones
19:52:41 <Lasty> is that code for removing wisps from the game?
19:52:47 <gammafunk> those are going to go for sure
19:53:00 <gammafunk> well, I'm not sure about things like wisp form
19:53:06 <gammafunk> but I'm not sure anyone cares about wisp form
19:53:40 <gammafunk> there are probably adjustments that need to be made to nem and some other things, but mostly I want to figure out what monsters I'd actually want there
19:54:35 <Lasty> Yeah, those could probably be a second step
19:59:48 <minmay> gammafunk: how else am I supposed to get sticky flame immunity now that mottled dragon armour is gone?
20:01:06 <Lasty> Iron dragons will have to start dropping a shield that gives it
20:03:51 <gammafunk> we could add a form where you are a flame cloud
20:04:08 <gammafunk> can't move, and if you dissipate you die
20:05:31 <Lasty> we could use more forms of insta-death
20:19:39 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir
20:21:22 <gammafunk> ??flay
20:21:23 <Sequell> flayed ghost[1/3]: Flayed ghosts can deal smite-targeted, irresistible, torment-like damage that heals when the ghost is killed or you stay away from it for a while. Flaying won't reduce HP below 25.
20:21:26 <gammafunk> ??flay[2
20:21:26 <Sequell> flayed ghost[2/3]: Flay damage is 6% of Max HP + 18% of Current HP; unless the amount of damage it would deal is more than (HP - (25 + random2(15))); in which case it deals that amount of damage instead; unless (HP - (25 + random2(15))) < 0; in which case it does nothing. Sorry I can't say it any simpler than that.
20:21:33 <gammafunk> ??flay[3
20:21:34 <Sequell> flayed ghost[3/3]: !lg ldf killer=flayed_ghost 1
20:24:25 <gammafunk> !learn edit pain_card[1] s/2:.*/2: Summons a {flayed ghost} and flays all natural monsters in LOS, which lowers their HP by 40% until the flay duration expires.
20:24:26 <Sequell> pain card[1/1]: By card power, 0: {agony} 1: {bolt of draining} 2: Summons a {flayed ghost} and flays all natural monsters in LOS, which lowers their HP by 40% until the flay duration expires.
20:35:11 <ZiBuDo> !messages
20:35:12 <Sequell> No messages for ZiBuDo.
20:47:50 <gammafunk> ZiBuDo: hey, question for you
20:47:56 <ZiBuDo> yo
20:48:23 <ZiBuDo> gammafunk: what's up?
20:48:36 <gammafunk> some weeks back sequell stopped pulling the logfile for trunk since it seems the logfile had gotten modified?
20:48:42 <gammafunk> let me check the email I sent to snark
20:48:58 <gammafunk> ZiBuDo: sorry, it was 0.20 logfile
20:49:01 <ZiBuDo> oh that's because i was deleting old versions from it
20:49:19 <ZiBuDo> yea since i was copying .19, .18 versions to populate those
20:49:27 <gammafunk> right, that problem we had noticed before?
20:49:29 <ZiBuDo> yea
20:49:44 <gammafunk> yeah, the thing about that is if you do it, sequell/cao will get very confused and stop pulling those logfiles
20:49:46 <ZiBuDo> i didn't realize manually editing it would cause problems
20:50:03 <ZiBuDo> ah, i'll avoid doing that in the future then
20:50:18 <gammafunk> snark fixed it for sequell, but we probably need to rebuild cao scoring or something
20:50:34 <gammafunk> ZiBuDo: next time you create that, you'll just not add that junk data in the new file, I take it?
20:50:40 <gammafunk> like for 0.21
20:50:43 <ZiBuDo> lol
20:50:45 <ZiBuDo> yea
20:50:47 <gammafunk> cool
20:50:49 <ZiBuDo> now that i realize that
20:50:53 <ZiBuDo> i had no idea i was doing that before
20:50:58 <ZiBuDo> since i did it for like 3 versions
20:51:08 <gammafunk> right, just one of those things you find out when it's too late
20:51:23 <gammafunk> good though, glad that was you changing it and not some other mysterious reason
20:51:51 <ZiBuDo> yea my bad, sorry for the trouble lol, i'll confer before doing something like that again
20:52:13 <gammafunk> no worries
20:59:42 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/616 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/616
20:59:42 <Cheibriados> 03toastedzergling02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/616 * 0.21-a0-275-g83a6913: Brutal Hack to fix Visible Monsters/Features/Items Menu 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/83a6913c1061
21:05:47 <Lasty> gammafunk: levels feel emptier than they did before. That's not necessarily bad tho.
21:06:46 <gammafunk> Lasty: Well, some of that may not actually be the case; We generate a few more monsters on average, and spawns can be pretty variable
21:07:51 <gammafunk> We found that they were like 8-13% of XP or so, with numbers of monsters being similar
21:08:02 <gammafunk> and the extra level spawns mostly recovered that
21:08:18 <Lasty> It's possible I'm moving slower than average
21:08:25 <Lasty> This is a MuFi
21:08:36 <gammafunk> yeah, the longer you spend on a level, the more spawns you will have
21:09:01 <gammafunk> so probably your Mu would experience it more than many chars would due to resting a lot
21:09:05 <Lasty> yeah
21:09:14 <gammafunk> also we generate some monsters awake at level creation time, 1/8 chance
21:09:49 <gammafunk> Lasty: qw's winrate seemed to drop from 13% to 10% on it's signature GrBe
21:09:56 <Lasty> nice
21:09:58 <gammafunk> so probably for a lot of players it would be a player nerf
21:10:11 <gammafunk> hrm
21:10:11 <Lasty> That's what I like to say
21:10:11 <Lasty> er see
21:10:20 <gammafunk> !won current trunk !nospawn
21:10:21 <Sequell> No games for current (trunk !nospawn).
21:10:24 <gammafunk> !won * current trunk !nospawn
21:10:34 <gammafunk> !won * current trunk nospawn
21:10:44 <Sequell> * (current trunk !nospawn) has won 2055 times in 225346 games (0.91%): 91xNaWn 90xMiBe 78xVSFi 74xGrFi 74xMiFi 45xDDFi 45xHOFi 43xFoFi 43xVSBe 39xDsFi 38xDsWn 35xDsGl 24xCeHu 22xGrGl 20xDEFE 19xGrEE 19xNaFi 17xHOMo 15xDsMo 15xSpEn 14xMiGl 14xTrMo 13xDsBe 12xBaFi 12xDECj 12xDrTm 12xGhMo 12xGrBe 12xHaHu 12xMfGl 12xOpTm 11xDrCj 11xFoAK 11xMuFi 11xTrFi 10xDsAr 10xDsNe 10xGhFi 10xGrMo 10xOgTm 10xTeBe 9...
21:10:47 <gammafunk> I should probably not use won for that
21:10:47 <Sequell> * (current trunk nospawn) has won 199 times in 18244 games (1.09%): 10xMiBe 9xMiFi 7xDsFi 5xGrBe 5xGrFi 4xMiGl 3xCeGl 3xDsMo 3xFoFi 3xGrEE 3xMfSk 3xMfSu 3xMiCK 3xVSFi 2xBaFi 2xCeAM 2xCeFi 2xCeHu 2xDEFE 2xDgFE 2xDsBe 2xDsNe 2xDsWn 2xFoCK 2xHOAr 2xHOBe 2xMuNe 2xNaCK 2xNaTm 2xOgBe 2xOgTm 2xOpCK 2xSpEn 2xTeFi 2xTrCK 2xTrFi 2xTrHu 2xTrMo 1xBaBe 1xBaCK 1xBaFE 1xBaIE 1xCeAE 1xCeAr 1xCeAs 1xCeBe 1xCeCK 1x...
21:11:00 <gammafunk> well that's closer to a buff
21:11:14 <gammafunk> interesting that winrate is lower than tournament though
21:11:19 <gammafunk> !gamesby * t0.20
21:11:20 <elliptic> that sort of comparison isn't very useful
21:11:26 <Sequell> * (t0.20) has played 80365 games, between 2017-05-26 20:00:06 and 2017-06-11 19:59:57, won 1710 (2.1%), high score 55609995, total score 9871618445, total turns 630785210, play-time/day 98d+12:49:51, total time 4y+215d+2:07:33.
21:11:58 <gammafunk> yeah probably not I guess, I didn't do any basic filtering
21:12:08 <advil> hmm, 616 is indeed a brutal hack
21:12:10 <elliptic> if it is anything less than tournament player density then it is very dependent on the set of people playing
21:12:24 <elliptic> and when they were playing
21:12:31 <gammafunk> right, tournament is a different set of players and also different conditions
21:12:38 <elliptic> e.g. !nospawn has 91 NaWn for some reason
21:12:52 <gammafunk> that dynast factor...
21:12:57 <gammafunk> !streak dynast
21:13:12 <Sequell> dynast has 30 consecutive wins (NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn, NaWn).
21:13:19 <Lasty> lol
21:13:20 <elliptic> and nospawn's winrate is actually significantly impacted by qw failing to win Ha right now (it should be even higher)
21:13:39 <gammafunk> yeah there are not all that many wins in nospawn
21:13:45 <elliptic> !won * current trunk !nospawn !nawn
21:13:53 <Sequell> * (current trunk !nospawn !nawn) has won 1964 times in 225020 games (0.87%): 90xMiBe 78xVSFi 74xGrFi 74xMiFi 45xDDFi 45xHOFi 43xFoFi 43xVSBe 39xDsFi 38xDsWn 35xDsGl 24xCeHu 22xGrGl 20xDEFE 19xGrEE 19xNaFi 17xHOMo 15xDsMo 15xSpEn 14xMiGl 14xTrMo 13xDsBe 12xBaFi 12xDECj 12xDrTm 12xGhMo 12xGrBe 12xHaHu 12xMfGl 12xOpTm 11xDrCj 11xFoAK 11xMuFi 11xTrFi 10xDsAr 10xDsNe 10xGhFi 10xGrMo 10xOgTm 10xTeBe 9xB...
21:14:15 <elliptic> hm, didn't expect that to move it down
21:14:28 <gammafunk> he plays nawn very well
21:14:31 <neizenel> !bot
21:14:43 <gammafunk> he and berder were playing it
21:14:45 <elliptic> er yes I was just confused, that was the direction I expected
21:15:10 <Lasty> I suppose NaWn has the spit to offset the occassional terrible start
21:15:30 <elliptic> !lg * current trunk !nospawn !@bot !boring / won
21:15:38 <elliptic> !lg * current trunk nospawn !@bot !boring / won
21:15:47 <Sequell> 2050/192491 games for * (current trunk !nospawn !@bot !boring): N=2050/192491 (1.06%)
21:15:50 <Sequell> 199/14890 games for * (current trunk nospawn !@bot !boring): N=199/14890 (1.34%)
21:15:59 <neizenel> turns out dynasts efforts have all been to make the meta joke that querying winrate with !nawn will result in a decrease
21:16:01 <elliptic> oh, there's another confounding factor actually
21:16:50 <elliptic> games in progress when the nospawn change happened will all show up as nospawn even if they were mostly played before nospawn
21:17:05 <elliptic> and since they survived early game they are much more likely to be wins
21:17:15 <elliptic> I guess can do this to test for that:
21:17:42 <neizenel> query by date-time?
21:18:02 <neizenel> i guess different servers update at different times....
21:18:19 <elliptic> !lm * current trunk nospawn !@bot !boring begin !alive / won
21:18:59 <Sequell> 163/14658 milestones for * (current trunk nospawn !@bot !boring begin !alive): N=163/14658 (1.11%)
21:19:04 <elliptic> yeah wow
21:19:12 <neizenel> jeez
21:19:17 <elliptic> games in progress made a big difference
21:19:55 <elliptic> 1.06% -> 1.11% is small enough that I'm not surprised, the 1.06% -> 1.34% was a bit weirder
21:23:19 <elliptic> difference between 1.06% and 1.11% can be caused by a single good player winning 7 games with very few deaths in nospawn while not having played that much before nospawn
21:24:16 <elliptic> and I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few players who played just to test nospawn (e.g. I won 2 games to test it)
21:26:19 <neizenel> I would have thought nospawn would lower winrate if anything.
21:26:32 <gammafunk> well the number of wins is nospawn is still small
21:26:45 <gammafunk> elliptic's last query only looked at 163
21:28:37 <neizenel> Yeah the sample size is way too small to tell either way.
21:29:05 -!- mikee__ is now known as mikee_
21:29:18 <elliptic> my expectation would be that the effect on human players will be pretty small
21:29:43 <elliptic> qw is probably hurt more because it isn't great at handling large groups of monsters
21:30:16 <neizenel> also he has been using a war axe a lot more, recently....
21:30:40 <gammafunk> I think qw's obsession with axes goes back a long time
21:30:50 <elliptic> qw's obsession with war axes is very new though
21:31:19 <elliptic> (but its winrate went down even with broad axes)
21:31:54 <neizenel> you tried non-shield-crazy ha?
21:32:06 <elliptic> no, I mean on GrBe
21:32:17 <elliptic> also on HuFi
21:34:15 <elliptic> anyway this thing about ignoring games that were started before the kw and ended after it is a good thing to keep in mind for such queries in the future
21:34:43 <elliptic> since unless you have months of games it is pretty significant
21:51:08 <alexjurkiewicz> hellmonk: if hellcrawl still has wands of paralysis and confusion please remove one
21:51:24 <hellmonk> soon
21:55:56 <hellmonk> oh, I should probably ask for an update now, before I start messing around with prs and whatever other stuff I pull together next
22:11:10 <hellmonk> !tell johnstein please update hellcrawl whenever you have a chance.
22:11:10 <Sequell> hellmonk: OK, I'll let johnstein know.
22:11:54 <hellmonk> alexjurkiewicz: you can update cpo whenever
22:14:43 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
23:13:41 <johnstein> has qw's total XP in a won game changed much? seems like with nospawn since more monsters start awake there's a bigger chance you won't see all monsters on a floor so even though the total XP in the games has been adjusted, the actual typical XP could be lower? or has this already been accounted for (or deemed too insignificant to matter?)
23:13:41 <Sequell> johnstein: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
23:14:36 <elliptic> johnstein: I did some tests and the change was pretty unnoticeable until V/Depths, when it was a bit lower but not much
23:15:37 <johnstein> ok. ty
23:19:11 <elliptic> it ended up getting to zot like 0.4 XLs lower iirc
23:20:33 <Cheibriados> 03toastedzergling02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/616 * 0.21-a0-276-g668fe78: Update menu.js 10(23 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/668fe784e025
23:59:29 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.21-a0-274-gc1afaeb (34)