00:44:49 -!- Bammboobies is now known as Bammboo 01:00:06 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 01:02:01 gammafunk: i like that approach: "hm, a transporter. look, some items! let's hop in" 01:02:01 amalloy: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 01:03:56 !tell gammafunk good use of ab to ensure the player is surrounded at all times 01:03:56 amalloy: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 01:05:10 amalloy: haha 01:05:18 well it did prevent a large rock to the face 01:05:24 but it didn't prvent a stone giant punch to the face 01:10:35 hellmonk: so power doesn't do much for tmut spells any more 01:11:05 yeah, would be nice to fix that 01:11:18 prob in the damage formulas I guess 01:11:18 i'm wondering if base damage--yeah 01:11:38 (tbh power doesn't do that much for tmut spells in the status quo though, unless you pick really drawn out fights) 01:13:03 want to get power dependence in a couple of the other buff spells that don't have it yet, guess I'll try to work that into the next update 01:13:37 i'm happy to help with changes to tmut spells, but I don't have good ideas beyond messing with base damage 01:13:54 and it seems boring to make every form just have increasing base damage with spell power 01:14:03 yeah 01:14:18 ice form and statform have ac scaling, right? 01:14:31 hm 01:15:52 i dont think so 01:17:32 ac seems to scale w/ spellpower for both of them 01:17:35 ideas: increase statue GDR with spell power, increase blade hands base damage, ice form AC, spider bonus EV? 01:17:42 i can't find the code though 01:17:53 spider bonus ev bh base damage sounds good 01:18:15 need to refactor hydra form so the basedam is smooth too 01:18:33 gotta figure out dform, necromut, appendage 01:19:08 since certain aux attacks are better you could just tier appendage like that, but there's going to be some very coarse breakpoints then 01:19:14 yeah 01:19:45 need to rework appendage anyway 01:19:58 !source cast_transform 01:19:58 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/spl-selfench.cc#L376 01:20:16 maybe dform bonus hp should scale 01:20:45 hp and dam even, it's meant to be the best 01:20:53 yea 01:21:46 no idea on necromut, maybe i should just remove it 01:23:04 big necro plans coming in the future anyway, gonna try to get to corpseless soon i think 01:23:42 ok i still cannot see how ice form armour scaling works currently 01:23:52 gammafunk are you here? 01:24:06 however it works I'll copy that for spider form ev tho 01:24:29 funny that I submit a PR to remove scaling from blade hands base damage in vanilla but then a pr to add it in hellcrawl 01:24:42 does spider form actually have an explicit ev boost or is it just the boost from size 01:24:48 just size now 01:25:42 might want to bump the size category up to compensate then, otherwise I imagine that it'd end up buffed a lot 01:26:02 its already single school since the most meme magic school got deleted 01:26:09 goal would be a little less EV at the start, about the same for d:7, more onwards 01:26:18 seems reasonable 01:26:41 i guess it's not ideal for two "consecutive" forms to both bonus defence in different ways (spider, ice) 01:26:54 but can deal with that later 01:26:59 yeah 01:34:50 you.props[TRANSFORM_POW_KEY].get_int() <-- is this the power in the scale of what players see? 01:37:03 absolutely no idea, I have just been using calc_spell_power every time I need spellpower calced 01:39:37 ah i see 01:40:34 I assume that transform_pow_key gets set when the spell is cast, which is not good for effects that stay up pseudo-permanently anyway 01:40:40 yep 01:41:20 presumably there would be some way to set it again every time power changes, if i cared about things like efficiency or good code maybe i would have tried that 01:41:45 but I'm down to just frankenstein a bunch of stuff together as long as the result works 01:44:03 so blade hands base damage was 22 01:44:18 i'm going to ballpark that BH gets cast from when people have approx 40 power 01:44:52 seems legit 01:45:06 random decision of desired damage range is 15-45 01:45:10 if you don't want to mess with all this stuff I can prob get to it in a couple days 01:45:41 i'm quite happy to mess with it, but it's going to involve a lot of picking random balance changes out of a hat. So I'm happy for you to take my work and completely replace the numbers 01:45:43 also seems legit, I forget what the hydra form maximum is maybe check it against that 01:55:15 i figured out how form ac sclaing works. If you care, it's the Form::get_ac_bonus function in transform.cc which uses values from form-data.h 01:55:41 there's a flat_ac and power_ac field for each form, so most forms just add flat ac but you can add scaling ac without extra code 01:55:50 no ev equivalent yet sadly 02:01:15 ok 02:04:00 i guess EV and AC bonus should have breakpoints too 02:04:13 unless HUD flickering is an acceptable price to pay for no breakpoints? 02:09:54 they probably have to have breakpoints, yeah 02:57:24 <|amethyst> So when are we going to nerf Trog 02:57:28 <|amethyst> !lg . 02:57:29 14466. Neil the Axe Maniac (L27 MiBe of Trog), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2017-08-08 06:55:19, with 1924050 points after 56361 turns and 2:47:27. 02:57:41 nice 02:58:05 |amethyst: the bar has been raised 02:58:10 when you get to greatplayer we nerf something 02:58:15 winning a mibe means nothing 02:58:29 but grats all the same :D 02:58:36 <|amethyst> just like winning a HOHe meant nothing when Ely was broken 02:58:38 <|amethyst> :) 02:58:59 <|amethyst> or an SpSt when evaporate + distillation existed 02:59:21 =O 02:59:25 hahaha 02:59:39 |amethyst: well people wanted to nerf those things since long before you won them 02:59:54 and if trog is so strong, let's see neil ascend a NaBe! 03:00:37 but in all seriousness, wrt god ners, I think it's fine but we also want to ask a serious queston 03:00:40 *question 03:01:00 which is, to what end are we nerfing gods? Are we trying to make the strong ones systematically weaker? 03:01:35 Making all gods have more similar levels of difficulty means adjusting gods at the low end as well 03:01:59 nabe took me a number of tries 03:02:03 tbh 03:02:14 I don't think I've even won a strong species with trog 03:02:17 !lg . won trog s=char 03:02:17 4 games for gammafunk (won trog): CeAr, HaCj, MfAM, OgAs 03:02:20 oh nm 03:02:25 most were strong species 03:02:37 Ha aren't very strong, but they're also not all that weak 03:03:01 <|amethyst> Trog probably doesn't need to be buffed, no 03:03:17 ha is probably great with trog 03:03:26 all the bullets you can carry 03:05:03 balancing the gods to have similar strength levels could be very nice, but it's a good deal of work. If we'd like to significantly nerf Trog, that's good, but we also need to adjust Fedhas, hep, jiyva, kiku, nem 03:05:07 !gamesby |amethyst month 03:05:08 |amethyst (month) has played 92 games, between 2017-07-08 20:53:55 and 2017-08-08 06:55:19, won 1 (1.1%), high score 1924050, total score 4581991, total turns 759969, play-time/day 0:57:21, total time 1d+6:35:33. 03:05:17 wow, the non-awfulplayer month 03:05:17 nice one mate 03:05:23 haha, congrats neil 03:05:30 er, |amethyst 03:05:44 !source Form 03:05:44 1/3. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/transform.cc#L89 03:05:44 <|amethyst> !hs . mibe -2 03:05:44 82/83. Neil the Slayer (L27 MiBe of Trog), blasted by Dittue the pandemonium lord (great icy blast) on Depths:1 on 2017-08-02 21:46:59, with 630450 points after 53725 turns and 2:28:45. 03:05:46 <|amethyst> that one was annoying 03:06:09 haha 03:06:14 orb run huh? 03:06:21 good 1.1% month 03:06:25 wooo 03:06:42 <|amethyst> now I can only play 8 more games this month 03:06:55 !greatplayer neil 03:07:01 Unwon species for neil: Barachi, Centaur, Deep Dwarf, Deep Elf, Demigod, Demonspawn, Draconian, Felid, Formicid, Gargoyle, Ghoul, Gnoll, Halfling, Human, Kobold, Merfolk, Mummy, Naga, Octopode, Ogre, Tengu, Troll, Vampire, Vine Stalker 03:07:19 plenty of options to choose from 03:07:33 play all the OP gods 03:07:40 play hellcrawl! 03:07:41 suggest a nerf to each when you get a win 03:08:43 no thanks 03:08:50 I prefer dcss 03:09:04 The original flavor, and still the best! (tm) 03:09:33 i've heard the devs are bad tho 03:09:53 well people are jealous of greatness, what can you do? 03:10:16 <|amethyst> one nerf suggestion: guarantee a warden or two in the Vaults:$ welcoming committee 03:10:56 don't think that's a very good idea, it's just an attempt to lock out stair dancing 03:11:05 in a completely predictable way 03:11:13 as it stands you can usually stair dance some until one shows up 03:11:25 then you either better be able to kill the warden fast or leave the starting area 03:11:35 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.21-a0-176-gb3d4b37 (34) 03:11:57 if we did want to well and truly prevent stair dancing for some reason, that would be a way to help do it, but I'm not sure V:5 is really too easy or anything 03:12:24 remember that players who aren't mibe have a different experience 03:14:42 I think Lasty especially wants the game to be significantly harder, but from the last time we had a big discussion about this 03:15:08 and this was when PF was present, and he's no longer active, the wasn't agreement that making crawl much harder is a thing we want 03:15:47 but both dpeg and Lasty have tried various proposals (dpeg's bezotting, Lasty's doom clock proposal) that try to make the game more difficult 03:15:55 <|amethyst> hey, if you want to let me get a win without nerfing something in response, that's your call :) 03:16:09 <|amethyst> would be the first time though :) 03:16:28 heh, well I'm personally not trying rule out any good nerfs, like trog's zerk costing piety sounds like it could be good 03:16:41 esp in concert with big food changes (removal of food in particular) 03:16:58 <|amethyst> remove BiA, I didn't use it 03:17:02 but it would be nice if we had consistent reasoning about these changes, like let's make all the OP gods not OP 03:17:14 and in doing that we have some work to do with a bunch of the ones at the top 03:17:27 maybe nothing too difficult, but some work all the same 03:17:58 wow, didn't use BiA 03:18:05 that wounds me deeply, the best summon in the game 03:18:15 like when elliptic wins a Su^Trog 03:28:24 <|amethyst> huh, got uniq_saint_roka on U:$ but he was dead long before that 03:28:43 <|amethyst> I guess there's nothing to veto unique vaults when the unique exists or is dead 03:55:24 yeah that's funny about the uniq_* vaults 03:55:32 didn't realize it continued attempting to place them 03:55:46 that could probably be fixed with a veto that was included as a lua fn with each of those vaults 03:56:04 since there's no reason to waste a vault placement 05:27:21 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 06:00:23 ziggurnaut (L22 FoFi) (Vaults:4) 06:06:45 -!- bh is now known as Guest13216 06:15:06 -!- bh_ is now known as Guest44202 08:03:07 -!- crate_ is now known as crate 08:09:41 !source player_likes_water 08:09:42 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/player.cc#L552 12:47:10 03cut1less02 {gammafunk} 07* 0.21-a0-177-g5fa6cc7: Let shallow water be like floors for water species 10(7 weeks ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5fa6cc7f67d9 12:47:10 03gammafunk02 07* 0.21-a0-178-g0b87683: Document and reindent a shallow water travel condition 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0b87683b6561 13:04:00 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.21-a0-178-g0b87683 (34) 13:09:27 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.21-a0-178-g0b87683 (34) 13:30:14 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 14:48:47 |amethyst: i just realized if you'd put off winning for another couple days it could have been on the anniversary of your first (online) game 14:48:57 !lg |amethyst 1 14:48:58 1/14469. Neil the Ruinous (L3 DECj), slain by a snake on D:3 on 2011-08-10 11:11:11, with 192 points after 2668 turns and 0:06:16. 14:49:42 oh shit and today is my anniversary 14:49:55 too bad i'm not gonna get back to my game 14:50:03 !lg . 1 14:50:05 1/777. gammafunk the Cudgeler (L6 HEFi), mangled by Sigmund (a +0,+0 scythe) on D:4 on 2012-04-26 22:42:48, with 466 points after 5210 turns and 0:28:36. 14:50:43 oh hey, 777 14:51:00 !lg gammafunk 14:51:01 777. gammafunk the Phalangite (L27 MfAM of Trog), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2017-06-11 12:18:36, with 1538107 points after 84750 turns and 5:42:55. 14:51:07 jackpot 14:51:30 A trog win?! That's the weakest god! Must have been extra luck from the 777 14:52:59 .gfgk 14:53:00 654. DrWolfram the Grappler (L10 TrMo of Wu Jian), demolished by a two-headed ogre (a +0 giant spiked club) on D:7 (gammafunk_beogh_shrine) on 2017-08-08 17:33:50, with 3931 points after 6129 turns and 0:27:05. 14:53:22 Finally got that pompous grandstander with his so-called "new kind of science" 15:17:00 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I prefer to imagine e's a superhero whose power is incandescing without melting 15:18:49 !lg IncandescentFury 15:18:50 No games for IncandescentFury. 15:18:52 bah 15:19:08 <|amethyst> !lg BlackBodyGirls 15:19:09 No games for BlackBodyGirls. 15:20:21 <|amethyst> , you've got the power spectrum done 15:20:25 <|amethyst> s/done/down/ 15:30:08 !vault dk_rats_in_the_wall 15:30:08 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/traps/rats_trap.des#L48 15:31:42 i happened to get this vault in a game a long time ago. i never saw the pressure plate, and there was no hole in the wall; i only noticed it because i had antennae. it looks like the lua could use a little cleanup; does anyone have an opinion on making the pressure plate be revealed so that you can't miss it? 15:34:14 i guess none of our other trap vaults have known pressure plates 15:35:43 <|amethyst> amalloy: IMO give it 'transparent' so you might be forced to cross it to fully explore the level 15:36:22 <|amethyst> amalloy: if a vault doesn't have 'transparent', it's treated as wholly opaque by levelgen, so you're guaranteed to have a way around it (or at least stairs on both sides) 15:36:48 interesting 15:37:17 MONS: generate_awake rat, generate_awake river rat 15:37:28 clearly this vault has gotten a lot of love 15:37:48 <|amethyst> (there's a way with KMASK or KPROP to mark part of a vault as transparent, but I don't remember the details and I think it might be undocumented) 15:38:09 <|amethyst> pretty sure it's KMASK 15:39:48 <|amethyst> (the actually passability of the square is still considered, so it's not a problem to mark walls as transparent; but you do have to make sure there are no disconnected areas in the vault, or else mark those areas as opaque, so they won't cause a veto) 15:39:59 <|amethyst> s/but you do/but I think you do/ 15:40:41 <|amethyst> I need to sit down one day and write up the complete level gen process 15:41:56 well, i got as far as keyed_mapspec::set_mask and MMT_OPAQUE in trying to figure out what mask or prop 15:43:07 my best guess is that to mark part of a vault as opaque you have to mark the whole thing as transparent, and then mask parts of it as opaque by hand 15:47:06 oh wait, do river rats still exist? i thought they'd been removed; maybe i'm confusing that with the green=>river rename 15:50:12 apparently they still exist but don't ever get placed normally? they're part of the BAND_GREEN_RATS band, and can be placed by vaults or created by ratskin cloak or by monsters casting SPELL_SUMMON_SMALL_MAMMAL, but not by players casting the same spell 15:50:55 <|amethyst> amalloy: aha, I think you can KMASK: . = !opaque 15:51:11 <|amethyst> river rates do exist and appear in sewers 15:51:15 <|amethyst> s/rates/rats/ 15:51:26 <|amethyst> (and sewer entrances) 15:51:26 they place in sewers (and entrance vaults thereof) and as Eustachio summons, at least 15:51:46 %git bf060b28d32dc39b5feba62e899a604faef33a31 15:51:46 07MarvinPA02 * 0.19-a0-1820-gbf060b2: Don't generate river rats or iguanas in Lair 10(10 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bf060b28d32d 15:52:07 <|amethyst> yeah, looks like they don't generate outside of vaults 15:52:11 <|amethyst> (and the spell) 15:52:19 (and the ratskin cloak!) 18:03:31 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.21-a0-178-g0b87683 (34) 19:03:45 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 19:53:11 -!- Guest44202 is now known as bh 20:14:49 !messages 20:14:50 (1/2) nikheizen said (9w 2d 12h 53m 38s ago): hey I can't send messages on console on cjr, it says the spool file doesn't exist; also jorgrell announcements added to postquell when??? 20:14:59 !messages 20:14:59 (1/1) advil said (7w 3d 5h 2m 20s ago): when you get a chance could you set my account as a dev on CJR so I can do rebuilds? (it seems I didn't have an account at all before today, which is probably why it never got set as dev) 20:31:04 is there a best practice for managing line lengths? I assumed something like 80 would be max, but I see some lines longer 20:31:12 in cc files 20:36:43 in other news, I'm using eclipse to navigate the source. anyone else ever try that? I can't build it (I'm not surprised) but it's really helpful for code navigation. building is easy in msys2 23:16:50 New branch created: pull/588 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/588 23:16:50 03SundaySalsa02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/588 * 0.21-a0-179-gbe3a3d2: Added destroyer background 10(50 minutes ago, 7 files, 32+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/be3a3d275436 23:58:08 hahaha 23:59:11 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.21-a0-178-g0b87683 (34) 23:59:16 z e r o c h a n c e