00:00:03 <|amethyst> ah, "New branch created" is also in ##crawl
00:01:22 <|amethyst> it's not exactly a bug, but I could be persuaded to change it
00:02:09 <gammafunk> it doesn't matter too much either way, and if you think it's fine of course
00:02:23 <gammafunk> the bot maintainer is the bot god
00:02:43 <|amethyst> the idea was, when Chei stopped announcing commits in non-master, non-release branches, to give ##crawl people some idea when new things were being tried out
00:02:56 <|amethyst> that's less useful when it's named "pull/572"
00:04:13 <gammafunk> oh, I see
00:04:13 <gammafunk> well, it does provide a link to the PR
00:04:29 <gammafunk> but yeah, would be nice if somehow the PR title was in there
00:05:17 <|amethyst> Probably you could do that with a webhook, but right now the webhook just tells chei to wake up and fetch stuff from the repo
00:07:07 <gammafunk> status quo is probably best then
00:07:39 <alexjurkiewicz> did haunt use to be a status that existed on the target and caused wraiths to be summoned over time?
00:08:09 <alexjurkiewicz> it's just a one-off summon now, but I swear there was a status I could create an icon for
00:11:27 <gammafunk> none for haunt, no
00:11:50 <gammafunk> maybe you're thinking of infestation, but that has an icon iirc
00:12:54 <|amethyst> there is a "haunting" ench, which is on the summon and not the victim
00:14:34 <Cheibriados> 03Alex Jurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/580 * 0.21-a0-147-g173cfd2: Add icon for haunt allies. 10(6 minutes ago, 7 files, 13+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/173cfd2e74d4
00:14:56 <|amethyst> hm
00:15:05 <|amethyst> I'm not sure how helpful that is
00:15:13 <|amethyst> without showing you whom it's haunting
00:15:31 <|amethyst> "haunting" means it can only take actions against a single target
00:16:15 <|amethyst> the target being determined at casting time
00:16:53 <|amethyst> (it is also used by doom hounds, with the hauntee being the player)
00:16:55 <gammafunk> yeah, I'm not sure what info the haunt icon really gives you
00:19:02 <ProzacElf> is it spooooky?
00:33:38 <gammafunk> !learn add ghost_rule No more ghosts.
00:33:38 <Sequell> ghost rule[1/1]: No more ghosts.
00:33:49 <alexjurkiewicz> i was using haunt + shadow creatures in crypt
00:34:08 <alexjurkiewicz> and the wrong summons vanished
00:35:12 <|amethyst> wouldn't that also be a problem for lots of summoning spells + shadow creatures?
00:36:11 <gammafunk> yeah, that's true
00:36:14 <gammafunk> different durations
00:36:27 <|amethyst> and distinct summoning caps
00:45:49 <Cheibriados> Disconnected vault: minmay_separated_statues 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11160 by Yermak
01:08:42 <|amethyst> hm... I think marking that vault "transparent" might help prevent that?
01:08:59 <|amethyst> or maybe not
01:12:50 <|amethyst> FR for 0.21: mounts
01:13:11 <|amethyst> generalise the spriggan rider code so it works for any monster pair, and players too
01:14:48 <nikheizen> "and players too"
01:14:49 <nikheizen> madman
01:15:03 <|amethyst> Crawl needs some shake-up
01:15:07 <hellmonk> then remove summoning school and add a mounts skill?
01:15:12 <|amethyst> unless we decide to just merge hellcrawl for 0.21
01:15:16 <hellmonk> I want to mount aizul
01:15:38 <nikheizen> who doesnt
01:15:53 <|amethyst> oh, right, perverts
01:21:30 <rumflump> 2 - slipped while mounting a monster (a saddled speedhorse called Harley Davidson)
01:22:59 <rumflump> it's important for trying to ride at all to be potentially lethal
01:25:46 <gammafunk> we're not doing bone riders neil, let it go
01:32:05 <alexjurkiewicz> riders on the horn
01:39:28 <nikheizen> |amethyst, you do it to yourself
02:16:45 <alexjurkiewicz> !tell hellmonk you should unravel buffs when changing body armour to prevent casting buffs in the nude
02:16:45 <Sequell> alexjurkiewicz: OK, I'll let hellmonk know.
02:23:53 <alexjurkiewicz> oh, that might happen already?
03:27:03 <bgiannan> at least more mounted monster would be fun
03:27:22 <bgiannan> even more fun would be the mount surviving its master
03:30:40 <gammafunk> how about
03:30:46 <gammafunk> draconians riding moths of wrath
03:31:09 <gammafunk> killer klowns riding curse toes?
04:15:03 <ProzacElf> gammafunk: titans riding caustic shrikes, obviously
04:54:27 <advil> mounts can survive their master I believe, it's just rare that it happens. I've always assumed because they tend to have less hp.
04:55:05 <advil> n.b. ^ is based on absolutely no knowledge of how the mount code works
05:16:09 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07* 0.21-a0-144-g7fa0e82: Allow lightning rods to get XP recharge when partially used 10(30 minutes ago, 9 files, 84+ 47-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7fa0e8279873
05:16:09 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07* 0.21-a0-145-gfc1d822: Give lightning rods a power bonus only for continuous fire 10(29 minutes ago, 1 file, 16+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fc1d82216bbf
05:16:09 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07* 0.21-a0-146-g612aa8a: Save compat for the lightning rod recharging change 10(24 minutes ago, 2 files, 10+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/612aa8a032e3
06:10:00 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.21-a0-146-g612aa8a (34)
06:41:00 <Lightli> ??plan
06:41:00 <Sequell> plan[1/1]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:planning:release_plans
13:22:42 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.21-a0-146-g612aa8a (34)
13:48:52 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  hmm
13:49:26 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  oh, I see, you're using references there
16:49:05 <gammafunk> |amethyst: I was wondering about TAG_MINOR when doing that save compat, I see we're sort of getting close to 256 of those
16:49:32 <gammafunk> I recall PF mentioning something about you saying we don't have to ever break save compat, but I wasn't sure what the details were
16:55:46 <|amethyst> I'm not sure it can be done in a way that doesn't make newer saves break in old versions
16:57:21 <|amethyst> I think it may be possible to increase the size of the minor tag without breaking CHR_FORMAT_VERSION, but it would be tricky
16:57:30 <|amethyst> err
16:57:35 <|amethyst> TAG_CHR_FORMAT rather
16:58:28 <|amethyst> the difficulty is that old versions need to be able to read the chr tag (which has the stuff that gets displayed in the save browser)
16:59:17 -!- gressup_ is now known as gressup
16:59:52 <gammafunk> so old versions would crash when trying to read saves made after this change?
17:00:07 <gammafunk> or rather even when trying to browse such saves
17:01:23 <|amethyst> or they ignore the save altogether, which might allow saves to be accidentally overwritten
17:01:54 <|amethyst> the problem is that the chr chunk starts out:  <major tag><minor tag><chr tag>
17:02:08 <|amethyst> (three bytes)
17:03:08 <|amethyst> so if you made the minor tag bigger than one byte, you'd have to encode it so that the second byte is always >0
17:04:34 <|amethyst> otherwise old versions of crawl that only read one byte for the minor tag might see its second byte as a chr version tag of 0 (meaning the chr chunk can be read by the old version), then get desynced and crash because of the actual <chr tag> byte
17:07:25 <gammafunk> so we'd just lose 256 tag minor versions (but still have 255 * 256 in total) yet not break save browsing in old versions?
17:09:07 <|amethyst> it would still be broken in a sense
17:09:12 <|amethyst> they just wouldn't show up
17:09:20 <|amethyst> but that's better than crashing :)
17:10:28 <gammafunk> seems that increasing tag major creates its own larger set of administrative hassles
17:10:52 <gammafunk> |amethyst: but if we do something like this, do we just never get to remove all that save compat code that's built up over the years?
17:10:57 <|amethyst> it's not that bad, the dgamelaunch launcher scripts handle that
17:11:32 <gammafunk> hrm, well there are servers like cwz, lld, and cpo that are not dgl based
17:11:34 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  the idea is that we shouldn't be forced to at 256, not that we never should
17:11:51 <gammafunk> right, so sort of a separate thing I guess
17:12:16 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  I've definitely avoided tags occasionally because "this is a minor thing, it's better to just sweep it under a rug rather than waste a tag on it"
17:12:26 <|amethyst> and if there were 4 billion tags, I would not have thought that
17:12:37 <gammafunk> yes, I considered doing that with the lightning rod save compat as well
17:12:52 <gammafunk> since giving people free charges isn't that big a deal
17:12:52 <|amethyst> but
17:12:59 <|amethyst> I think it's not *necessary*
17:13:17 <|amethyst> we probably should bump the major tag soon, it's been a while
17:14:05 <gammafunk> oh, and I think I'm overstating the problem for bumping
17:14:11 <gammafunk> dgl will just not transfer their save, won't it
17:14:16 <|amethyst> right
17:14:26 <gammafunk> so they don't even lose a game, it's just an old version permanently
17:14:26 <|amethyst> but for people who don't use dgl and don't keep around old trunk versions
17:14:33 <|amethyst> s/people/server/
17:14:43 <gammafunk> right, it would be quite a thing for cpo, cwz, and lld
17:14:47 <|amethyst> that would be a problem because you couldn't play, only delete your save or archive it forever
17:15:11 <|amethyst> s/archive it/leave it sitting on the server unplayed/
17:16:54 <gammafunk> alright, so tag minor issues are basically independent of bumping tag major; we'll have to bump the latter at some point
17:17:43 <geekosaur> tbh we're already there. I ended up with two essentially unplayable games on various servers because so many things had changed that the monsters and mechanics didn't really match up any more
17:18:08 <geekosaur> (granted they have to sit around for a couple years to be that out of sync)
17:19:17 <gammafunk> I'm not really sure what kind of monster/mechanic desync would render the game unplayable
17:19:35 <gammafunk> don't the axed monsters just get removed
17:19:58 <gammafunk> my guess is it would make the game generally easier wrt already generated monsters
17:20:24 <gammafunk> I suppose you could have a character that was unready to deal with threats at the only next level they could do
17:20:31 <gammafunk> but you'd have to go quite far back
17:26:34 <geekosaur> everything I ran into on the currentlevel and the next level down was a "ghost", in one case
17:28:03 <geekosaur> ...I don't think I had visited the next level down in the old version
17:28:26 <gammafunk> heh
17:28:32 <gammafunk> hrm, that basically shouldn't happen
17:28:46 <geekosaur> but I was disinclined to experiment much because it was also a Nem character and Nem had gotten *two* reworks since I saved it
17:29:56 <geekosaur> iirc this included things like the char was geared for a Nem that used evo instead of invo, so in effect it loaded into the new version with 0 skill
17:31:45 <geekosaur> so, not really any single game-breakers, just a bunch of smaller changes that taken together led to a saved game that was pretty much trashed in the newer version
17:35:52 <gammafunk> yeah
17:36:15 <gammafunk> it'd be funny to figure out the "perfect storm" character that was the most screwed up by a save transfer
17:46:58 -!- Fixer_ is now known as Fixer
18:03:53 -!- karazhan is now known as Guest59969
18:15:08 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.21-a0-146-g612aa8a (34)
19:07:48 <Eksell> Webtiles server stopped.
19:07:49 <Eksell> braks (L4 MuAE)  (D:3)
19:07:49 <Eksell> Lenha2 (L4 MfTm)  (D:2)
19:07:50 <Eksell> p0werm0de (L12 OpEn)  (Lair:3)
19:07:50 <Eksell> appiemonkey (L5 MiHu)  (D:3)
19:07:52 <Eksell> Protee (L9 DrTm)  (D:7)
19:07:54 <Eksell> Baril (L14 HuFE)  (Lair:4)
19:07:57 <Eksell> Yermak (L27 SpAr)  (Dis:4)
19:07:59 <Eksell> drasked (L7 HOMo)  (D:4)
19:08:04 <Eksell> Webtiles server started.
19:08:06 <Eksell> LlamaFarmer (L15 SpEn)  (D:13)
19:19:03 <nikheizen> ayy
20:09:03 <alexjurkiewicz> gammafunk: i think the lightning rod description needs to be updated
20:09:15 <gammafunk> oh, probably
20:09:23 <alexjurkiewicz> specifically it doesn't mention that the fire increases in power only on consecutive uses
20:09:45 <gammafunk> yeah, I didn't even check that
20:09:56 <alexjurkiewicz> does the power increase get capped ever? or could you get to absurd numbers in a zig
20:10:00 <gammafunk> so I'll go fix that in a bit, thanks for the heads-up
20:10:17 <gammafunk> yeah it's a hard reset at max charges
20:10:41 <gammafunk> so what happens is
20:10:57 <gammafunk> you use it 4 times, the power charge is reset
20:10:57 <gammafunk> which is actually a bug I guess
20:11:07 <alexjurkiewicz> it should cap at 4 instead?
20:11:14 <gammafunk> no, that is the cap
20:11:20 <gammafunk> what I'm saying, now that I think about this
20:11:27 <gammafunk> is that the behaviour is misleading
20:11:34 <gammafunk> the behaviour is, regardless of uses
20:11:46 <gammafunk> er usage charges remaining (which is governed by XP gained)
20:12:28 <alexjurkiewicz> oh, so you could use it once, recharge it, then use it three times, and then the power cap would be reset
20:12:30 <gammafunk> if you use the rod 4 times in a row, on the 5th time you get "power" of 4th level
20:12:37 <gammafunk> but then its reset
20:12:40 <gammafunk> back to 0
20:12:43 <alexjurkiewicz> gotcha
20:12:44 <gammafunk> regardless of your gaining charges
20:13:01 <gammafunk> this is sort of confusing since the messages you get are based on it running out of usage charges
20:13:14 <gammafunk> not based on what's happening with power charge
20:13:31 <gammafunk> so perhaps it needs some more detailed messaging?
20:13:46 <gammafunk> it could print a message when the power charge resets
20:13:57 <gammafunk> or maybe the behaviour could be altered in some way
20:15:02 <alexjurkiewicz> it seems the simplest approach would just be to increase power with consecutive uses, regardless of how many charges are left
20:15:18 <gammafunk> well that's what presently happens
20:15:18 <alexjurkiewicz> maybe capping the increase to 4 if you want to prevent silliness
20:15:27 <gammafunk> yes, that's literally what happens
20:15:36 <gammafunk> well, save for the reset
20:15:45 <gammafunk> you could cap at 4 and just keep that value
20:16:09 <gammafunk> but the power charge is not tied to usage charges left
20:16:09 <gammafunk> in the present code
20:16:18 <alexjurkiewicz> ok yeah reading now
20:16:29 <gammafunk> the only weird part is how when you get to power charge 4, the power charge is reset on the turn where use it at power charge 4
20:16:50 <gammafunk> during all of this, the usage charges (the uses left) is simply governed by your gaining XP
20:16:57 <gammafunk> so these two things are independent
20:17:20 <gammafunk> maybe capping it at 4 like currently but without the reset on the 5th use would be best
20:18:03 <gammafunk> so you could keep zapping at power 4 indefinitely so long as you're gaining enough xp to get more charges each turn
20:18:23 <alexjurkiewicz> +1
20:18:48 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
20:30:22 <alexjurkiewicz> while you're devving, also check my des files? <3
20:30:22 <Sequell> alexjurkiewicz: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
20:35:45 <alexjurkiewicz> nice hellmonk
20:35:53 <alexjurkiewicz> cigotuvi's embrace is amazing now btw
20:36:02 <hellmonk> yeah, it is getting nerfed immediately
20:36:08 <alexjurkiewicz> i was running around in robes with 50AC
20:36:25 <hellmonk> enjoy it while it lasts, gonna ask for update later tonight probably
20:37:03 <alexjurkiewicz> also, it's so much fun being able to cast top end spells without needing to worry about hunger. And I think you've done this without making the game significantly easier
20:37:08 <hellmonk> drop the cap, drop the rate at which it accumulates, and increase the decay, then bounce numbers around until I find that sweet spot
20:39:59 <alexjurkiewicz> I was about to suggest just making the decay really high like the original, so you can't really take ac from one fight to another. but that would probably make it tedious
20:40:22 <alexjurkiewicz> it's nice that I can continue to auto-explore and still get some benefit, although the benefit would be higher with manual exploration
20:43:36 <hellmonk> yeah thats one disadvantage of this kind of decay over time model
20:43:50 <hellmonk> makes manual explore significantly better unless the decay is really fast
20:44:04 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
20:44:22 <hellmonk> going to take the decay up a bit as part of the balance change I'm working on though, will see how it works out
20:49:10 <alexjurkiewicz> want to play a qazlal necro before you fix this
20:54:47 <hellmonk> that sounds pretty busted, 50 sh for free
21:47:45 <nikheizen> Is there anywhere to get compiled copies of DCSS trunk other than crawl.develz.org/trunk ?
21:48:15 <nikheizen> sf?
21:50:46 <gammafunk> no, cdo is doing regular builds
21:50:57 <gammafunk> why do you want a different location?
21:51:07 <gammafunk> I think the web page is not updating but the rss feed is
21:52:13 <nikheizen> Someone wanted to play nugn
21:52:37 <nikheizen> thanks.
21:54:29 <hellmonk> >wanting to play nugn
21:54:42 <nikheizen> yeah i know
21:54:59 <nikheizen> its hard to understand how bad they are without playing them though
21:58:05 <alexjurkiewicz> how is the spell library ordered?
21:58:23 <alexjurkiewicz> is it by order of addition?
21:58:33 <hellmonk> no idea, would have to ask doesnt
23:30:36 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07* 0.21-a0-147-gaca7846: Use key variables to look up lightnind rod properties 10(59 minutes ago, 4 files, 13+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/aca784626af8
23:30:36 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07* 0.21-a0-148-gdcd0815: Don't reset lightning rod charge power when recharging in wizard mode 10(58 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dcd0815322d4
23:30:36 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07* 0.21-a0-149-gcbbc58b: Don't reset lightning rod power charge as long as uses are consecutive 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cbbc58b84ac4
23:30:36 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07* 0.21-a0-150-gc243083: Update the lightning rod description 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c243083e7360
23:31:17 <gammafunk> hopefully the last of my lightning rod commits for a while
23:52:28 <alexjurkiewicz> hellmonk: please make pressing enter on difficulty selection choose normal
23:52:36 <hellmonk> oh, good idea
23:52:42 <hellmonk> will add that to my list