00:12:22 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.21-a0-125-gb006224 (34)
00:17:07 -!- tsujin_ is now known as tsujin
00:27:16 -!- mngr_ is now known as daiy
00:35:51 -!- mngr__ is now known as daiy
01:56:18 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-125-gb006224
02:54:11 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-125-gb006224
03:16:12 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.21-a0-125-gb006224 (34)
03:55:12 <Cheibriados> Gozag pacifies player illusion made by Mara 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11149 by Lavandula
08:34:48 -!- mngr_ is now known as daiy
11:52:11 -!- mngr__ is now known as daiy
11:56:52 -!- mngr__ is now known as daiy
12:36:17 -!- mngr_ is now known as daiy
12:56:02 -!- mngr_ is now known as daiy
13:05:09 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
13:24:38 -!- mngr_ is now known as daiy
16:20:37 <Lightli> !plans
16:20:41 <Lightli> ??plans
16:20:41 <Sequell> plans ~ plan[1/1]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:planning:release_plans
16:21:37 <wheals_> remove lightlis
16:43:22 <Floodkiller> gammafunk: any progress on merging the gnoll PR? just wanting to check up on it
17:00:10 <gammafunk> Floodkiller: if I haven't done anything by the end of the weekend, please ping me again
17:04:58 <Floodkiller> alright
17:05:33 <gammafunk> Floodkiller: gives you plenty of time to implement unified login!
17:06:01 <gammafunk> remeber, the original Floodkiller project
17:06:20 <gammafunk> aside from merging this PR, what was the biggest thing I said I'd work on that I never did
17:06:32 <gammafunk> I guess I've never made that depths encompass, and I never did rework Labyrinths
17:06:48 <gammafunk> maybe I promised something about extended at one point
17:06:59 <Floodkiller> I have a couple other games that are quater/half finished that I left abandoned at some point
17:07:11 <gammafunk> ooh, that's a good one
17:07:16 <gammafunk> totally unfinished games
17:07:19 <|amethyst> Floodkiller:  BTW, if you kill Flood, who will produce PJ Harvey's albums?
17:07:24 <|amethyst> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_(producer)
17:07:31 <gammafunk> oh, that guy is cool
17:07:39 <gammafunk> he produced a lot of great 90s albums, didn't he?
17:08:01 <|amethyst> Mellon Collie and several NIN albums
17:08:08 <gammafunk> yeah, even pretty hate machine
17:08:14 <|amethyst> and several U2 albums as well
17:08:39 <|amethyst> but everyone has their flaws
17:08:51 <gammafunk> is PJ Harvye good?
17:09:02 <gammafunk> I really liked Down By the Water but I never much listened to her other stuff
17:09:06 <gammafunk> *Harvey
17:09:19 <|amethyst> I've only listened to To Bring You My Love (the album with that song)
17:09:23 <|amethyst> but I like it
17:09:45 <|amethyst> I mentioned her because that's the most recent album he has produced
17:10:52 <|amethyst> err, not that album, but her 2016 album
17:12:20 <n1> I like Stories from the City...
17:13:48 <|amethyst> I am always annoyed when Lithium (the XM Radio "90s alternative and grunge" station) never plays PJ Harvey, Tori Amos, Björk, etc
17:14:28 <nikheizen> i remember people were really excited about let england shake a few years back, but i never looked into it
17:14:39 <|amethyst> it seems to mostly be "90s male alternative and grunge", with a few exceptions (Hole, Alanis Morissette, and No Doubt)
17:15:18 <|amethyst> I guess you can also count D'arcy Wretzky's bass playing
17:15:39 <gammafunk> I certainly recall Tori Amos being on the radio a lot
17:15:53 <|amethyst> I don't, but I'm from bumfuck Kentucky
17:16:10 <gammafunk> but of course there are a lot fewer 90s alternative bands with female leads
17:16:38 <gammafunk> Bjork I would also hear, but she was never quite as popular as the other female artists you mentioned
17:17:04 <gammafunk> and this applies to PJ Harvey, who only had the one hit single and album
17:17:24 <|amethyst> Stories from the City was apparently also a hit, but I wasn't listening to radio by then
17:17:35 <|amethyst> I was in my local music phase in 2000
17:17:35 <gammafunk> but I suppose an XM Radio station of 90s music could try harder to find less mainstream musicians
17:17:59 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  90s "alternative", even... that's what gets me
17:18:06 <gammafunk> heh
17:18:15 <gammafunk> yeah that label was always bullshit though
17:18:25 <gammafunk> I mean, a lot of that music was super mainstream
17:18:38 <|amethyst> "So alternative just like everyone else in the mainstream"
17:18:48 <gammafunk> but right, it's definitely supposed to have an indie soul
17:19:08 <|amethyst> -Lisa Loeb, "The 90s"
17:19:31 <|amethyst> who is also never played on Lithium
17:19:50 <gammafunk> Have you all heard of this great alternative lesser-known punk band that goes by the name "Green Day"
17:20:14 <gammafunk> hard to find, but worth listening to
17:20:21 <|amethyst> Of the pop-punk singers named Armstrong, I prefer Tim
17:20:29 <|amethyst> (from Rancid)
17:20:42 <|amethyst> /topic '90s nostalgia
17:20:56 <gammafunk> even their hit songs became pretty mainstream!
17:21:03 <gammafunk> or that one hit song from them did, I heard it all the time
17:22:24 <|amethyst> "Good Riddance", often used as a prom song by teenagers who didn't really pay attention to the lyrics (or the title!)
17:22:36 <|amethyst> much like REM's "The One I Love" a decade earlier
17:26:34 <|amethyst> BTW, did you know that Björk's former SO made a series of moves named after the muscle that surrounds the testis?
17:26:42 <|amethyst> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cremaster_Cycle
17:27:23 <gammafunk> |amethyst: I was actually thinking more of "Time Bomb"
17:27:42 <gammafunk> oh, and "Ruby Soho"
17:27:46 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  ah, thought you were still talking about Green Day
17:28:40 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  one whole verse of that song (Time Bomb) was on their previous album (with higher BPM)
17:29:29 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  Nowadays my punk input is mostly limited to Bad Religion, because who doesn't like preachy atheists? :)
17:29:55 <gammafunk> true, I could see them being big again for that reason
17:30:37 <gammafunk> I will listen to anything if it means I don't have to listen to The Offspring
17:30:39 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  too bad Greg Graffin has mellowed out
17:31:54 <|amethyst> Greg Graffin of Bad Religion was a bit of an inspiration to me, because if he could get a PhD while being part of a popular rock band, surely I could finish my PhD since I don't even have the band :P
17:32:38 <gammafunk> heh
17:33:13 <gammafunk> I'm sure people were similarly inspired by that guy from Queen
17:34:22 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  but he didn't finish until he was 60 years old :)
17:34:38 <gammafunk> nothing wrong with getting a PhD at 60!
17:35:22 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  yeah, but he started in 1971 at age 25
17:35:25 <|amethyst> err, 24
17:36:03 <gammafunk> didn't know that
17:36:14 <gammafunk> He's probably not too worried about finding tenure
17:36:16 <|amethyst> he took as long to finish his PhD as I have been alive :)
17:36:18 <|amethyst> heh
17:36:25 <|amethyst> Greg Graffin actually lectures
17:36:36 <|amethyst> he alternates semester between lecturing and band-ing
17:36:43 <gammafunk> that's pretty cool
17:36:43 <|amethyst> s/ster/sters/
17:38:27 <n1> I think the lead singer of the offspring got a PhD while having a rock band too
17:38:46 <|amethyst> I'm sure there were some strings pulled, though, since his PhD is nominally zoology, but is actually about philosophy of science
17:39:22 <|amethyst> n1:  he only finished his PhD this year
17:39:32 <n1> oh wow
17:40:02 <|amethyst> n1:  but I had heard that since the late 90s
17:40:33 <|amethyst> oh, I didn't know this:
17:41:01 <|amethyst> Sterling Morrison (RIP) of The Velvet Underground got a PhD in medieval lit in the 90s
17:41:13 <|amethyst> http://www.themortonreport.com/entertainment/music/smart-rock-stars/
17:42:05 <|amethyst> hm, the singer of The Descendants apparently has a PhD too
17:42:52 <|amethyst> I guess being a punk artist means you don't have to spend much time practising your instrument, and thus have more time to work on your degree
17:43:25 <|amethyst> so maybe Brian May of Queen is the most impressive of the bunch, after all
17:53:11 <|amethyst> ProzacElf: Question of vital importance to the future of Crawl: so what do you think of 90s "alternative"?
17:53:18 <|amethyst> s/?/music?/
17:53:32 <|amethyst> s/music/ music/ # dammit
17:55:35 <gammafunk> we need a script to convert all griefing lua bots to 90s song fact bots
17:55:48 <gammafunk> offers a music quiz to any spectator that joins
17:56:13 <|amethyst> It's like a captcha for cool people
17:57:40 <|amethyst> "click on the pictures that are references to Nine Inch Nails songs"
18:00:54 <|amethyst> Of course, to satisfy the ADA, you have to offer as an alternative, "click on the pictures that are references to Collective Soul songs"
18:52:20 <tswett> All right, let's try to build Crawl in Visual Studio again.
18:52:30 <tswett> I have three monitors and three versions of VS. I cannot fail. :D
18:55:30 <|amethyst> tswett:  patches welcom!
18:56:41 <tswett> Now, funny thing. The current solution file is for VS 2012.
18:56:45 <tswett> But I only have 2010, 2013, and 2015.
18:57:03 <|amethyst> try with 2015 IMO
18:57:19 <|amethyst> IIRC 2013 didn't have full C++11 support
18:57:33 <tswett> Sure. I might end up committing an upgrade of the solution file, though.
18:58:04 <|amethyst> that's cool
18:58:54 <tswett> First error: Error	LNK1104	cannot open file 'SDL.lib'	tilegen	C:\git\crawl\crawl-ref\source\MSVC\LINK	1
18:58:57 <tswett> Not too surprising an error, seeing as how I don't have anything called SDL.lib.
19:00:24 <geekosaur> missing or not yet built contribs?
19:06:35 <tswett> I guess I should read the instructions on how to build...
20:30:37 <johnstein> I recently had an issue building sdl2 for windows. had to comment out some lines
20:39:49 <geekosaur> that was an issue with msys2's latest sdl; this is VS native
20:42:02 <johnstein> ah ok
20:42:21 <johnstein> what's the best way for me to handle that in my repo?
20:43:01 <johnstein> I obviously have to fix it. but if I commit the fix don't I have to remember to excise that from a future merge request?
20:43:28 <geekosaur> hm, where are you fixing it?
20:43:33 <johnstein> and if I don't fix it (Ie don't commit it) then I have to fix it again later if I need to rebuild it?
20:44:02 <johnstein> I fixed it in the sdl contrib folder
20:44:46 <johnstein> I'm assuming I won't have to rebuild sdl often
20:44:48 <geekosaur> huh, thought msys2 used msys2's version instead of the contrib. (if it's in the contrib then tswett will also likely hit it...)
20:45:32 <geekosaur> but the contribs are separate repos so you could make the change without committing it and then you'd get notified in the form of a conflict if it's fixed upstream and ends up in the contrib repo
20:46:48 <geekosaur> otoh if I am confused as to the cause/source of the conflict then perhaps I should not be making suggestions >.>
20:49:51 <johnstein> geekosaur: but won't a commit -am pick up the fix?
20:50:09 <johnstein> right now I have to git add all the time. kinda annoying sometimes
20:50:41 -!- Mythres_ is now known as Mythres
20:50:58 <geekosaur> it's annoying but I prefer doing that because I often have stuff going on that shouldn't go in (working on a larger thing then need to upstream part of it first for some reason)
20:51:28 <johnstein> exactly
20:51:35 <johnstein> it get clunky and annoying
20:53:20 * geekosaur tries to figure out how that was agreement...
20:55:51 <nikheizen> <geekosaur> it's annoying ?
20:56:04 <geekosaur> oh, just stop reading at the 'but'?
20:56:08 <nikheizen> yes
20:56:30 <Floodkiller> the but stops here
20:56:51 <nikheizen> you just got tldr'd
21:34:11 -!- nikheizen is now known as malakal
21:34:21 -!- malakal is now known as nikheizen
22:10:17 <espais> was tinkering around with dgamelaunch and webtiles...is there any way to run it on port 80 instead of 8080?  every time i try messing with apache2.conf i end up with an infinite redirect loop
22:11:25 <espais> seems to be the RewriteRule ^/(.*) http://<ip_addr>/$1 line towards the bottom of the VirtualHost entry (i removed the 8080 and it just redirects to itself)
22:12:24 <geekosaur> yes?
22:12:32 <geekosaur> ports are not per process, they are per machine
22:12:50 <geekosaur> if you remove the port 8080 there you are redirecting apache to itself
22:12:59 <espais> http://paste.ubuntu.com/25093241/
22:13:22 <espais> right, but to my understanding the redirect is necessary to add in that $1 tag...
22:13:23 <geekosaur> either your apache or your webtiles server must be on a different address for them to both use port 80
22:13:52 <espais> ok maybe i'll lay out my issue then...the server is behind a university firewall that only allows port 80 outside
22:14:22 <espais> for some reason i thought crawl was leaning on apache...makes sense why the redirect is there then
22:14:56 <geekosaur> then you need to arrange for apache to be a reverse proxy
22:15:14 <geekosaur> no, the apache just lets you do something more than the webtiles lobby
22:15:34 <geekosaur> you can run webtiles without apache, you get dumped directly into the lobby
22:16:04 <espais> hmm...the lobby is all i really care about at the moment
22:17:09 <geekosaur> ok, so lose the apache and you edit the bind_port in webtiles/config.py
22:17:27 <espais> well would you look at that
22:17:29 <espais> lol
22:17:56 <espais> thanks!
22:19:05 <espais> followup that i wasn't going to think about until after this was fixed
22:19:18 <espais> if i wanted to incorporate beam...i'd need that to communicate over the IRC channel right?
22:19:34 <geekosaur> you'll need to ask gammafunk about that one
22:19:43 <espais> gotcha
22:19:51 <espais> i haven't looked to far into it
22:20:00 <geekosaur> but iirc you can't talk across to irc, all it does is relay bot commands
22:22:45 <espais> yea, though i think it relays them over the IRC port
22:22:49 <espais> which...is also blocked
22:23:03 <gammafunk> beem just connects to freenode and relays to the bots
22:23:30 <gammafunk> over irc, optionally using ssl+sasl (which may be required by freenode depending on your ip)
22:23:56 <gammafunk> so if outbound irc connections are blocked for you, you're probably out of luck
22:24:21 <gammafunk> it doesn't listen on irc though, it just connects to the websocket url you specify to listen to games
22:25:04 <gammafunk> so as long as you can connect to freenode from the host machine, you can run beem
22:27:25 <espais> oh interesting
22:27:34 <espais> so 6665-6667 or 8000-8002?
22:28:38 <espais> i'll give that a shot
22:28:51 <espais> interestingly i can connect to freenode through the browser connection but not through a client
22:28:57 <espais> *when on the network
22:29:59 <geekosaur> yes, because their web client is on port 80 and speaks irc from the backend on the web server
22:31:06 <espais> ahh
22:31:15 <espais> makes sense
22:34:35 <espais> geekosaur: so the reverse proxy you mentioned before...that's not something i'm really familiar with
22:35:19 <espais> so in that instance would i connect to webtiles on 80 and then the reverse proxy would handle the apache traffic?
22:36:31 <geekosaur> basically you configure apache to sit in front of another web application and it pretends to be the 'face' of that application, while relaying connections and responses so that it looks like they came from apache. which lets you hide an application server (webtiles in this case) elsewhere that isn't directly accessible
22:39:00 <gammafunk> espais: is your network actually blocking the outgoing connection, or is freenode refusing the connection?
22:39:11 <geekosaur> you'd configure apache to reverse proxy requests to or under e.g. /crawl-dgl to http://...:8080/ and it would resend client requests (with the /crawl-dgl removed so they look like they're at the web root) and forward responses back rewritten. it also has to rewrite any URLs in the stream so they also get proxied
22:39:30 <gammafunk> they block some IPs like from amazon EC2 unless you connect with a registered account using SASL
22:39:38 <espais> its blocking...
22:39:54 <espais> i work at a university...they have a big firewall that blocks everything except port 80
22:40:05 <espais> getting ports opened is like pulling teeth
22:40:18 <espais> for a while they opened up 8000 for me but that seems to have been revoked
22:40:38 <geekosaur> ...oh right, complication in that you also need to proxy the websocket connection that the client uses. https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/howto/reverse_proxy.html
22:42:01 <geekosaur> https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/mod/mod_proxy_wstunnel.html websocket proxy you'd need so clients can connect to the websocket
22:42:15 <gammafunk> yeah, maybe just worry about getting the webtiles server running
22:42:21 <gammafunk> you don't even have to run beem from the same server
22:42:37 <gammafunk> I run all the official server beem instances from an amazon EC2 free tier instance
22:42:49 <gammafunk> which also runs cerebot and lomlobot
22:43:06 <gammafunk> it's no longer free since it's been running over a year
22:43:18 <espais> hmm, that's a neat idea
22:43:24 <espais> i do have some google cloud credits for education
22:43:37 <espais> i actually did get the webtiles server running, thanks to geekosaur
22:43:54 <espais> every time i look at that guide i want to take a day and reformat it :/
22:44:09 <espais> but it was pretty comprehensive
22:45:04 <gammafunk> it's all kind of strung together
22:45:37 <espais> yea
22:45:55 <espais> i think the biggest issue i had was that in some places you get the general plan of what to do, and then its duplicated in more detail a bit later on
22:46:25 <espais> i actually noticed that somebody put together a docker approach but i didn't give that a shot
22:50:39 <geekosaur> iirc that's a proof of concept and incomplete
22:51:19 <geekosaur> so you'd get twice the 'learning experience' :p
22:52:11 <espais> lol
22:52:18 <gammafunk> there are a couple docker projects that I don't think were really completed
22:52:27 <espais> i was actually kind of curious for playing around with some load balancing on this
22:52:39 <gammafunk> and there was something more elaborate someone spent a lot of time working on
22:52:39 <gammafunk> and then disappeared
22:52:40 <gammafunk> ?/docker
22:52:40 <Sequell> Matching terms (1): docker; entries (2): docker[1]: https://bitbucket.org/TZer0/crawl-docker - functioning prototype with external storage settings (and thus import) working. | docker[2]: https://bitbucket.org/mattiasjp/crawl-docker by Mattias
22:54:02 <espais> yea i think the TZer0 one was the one i'd found
22:54:28 <espais> i kind of gave up on that GA work i was doing with your bot ... i would've ended up writing my own thing and it became a bigger hassle than it would've been worth
22:55:59 <gammafunk> imo always start on a project that's both reasonably practical and reasonably small
22:56:16 <espais> well for me it would've been for research
22:56:32 <espais> i was hoping that i could plug qw in with a lot of the codebase that i already have
22:56:42 <gammafunk> oh, that's not my bot
22:56:46 <gammafunk> that's elliptic's bot
22:56:53 <espais> ..yea...
22:57:00 <espais> i think that's the second or third time i've confused you guys now
22:57:02 <espais> soryr
22:57:03 <espais> *sorry
22:57:12 <gammafunk> don't worry, I'm basically geekosaur and geekosaur is basically |amethyst
22:57:15 <gammafunk> we're all just clones
22:58:02 <espais> i figured you're all just forks of beem that are programmed to not require a special character
22:58:32 <gammafunk> most devs here would object to the implication that they were written in python
23:00:14 <espais> could be worse...could be lua
23:03:28 <espais> oh...while i'm here for my semi-annual appearance in dev
23:03:53 <espais> i'm just curious what the reason for the change to sandblast around 0.20 was
23:04:11 <espais> reason i ask was that i recently was trying to get a DEEE up and running and i ran out of stones on d2
23:05:52 <geekosaur> because you can normally only wield weapons, and stones for sandblast was a special case
23:06:06 <geekosaur> that complicated a bunch of things because crawl source is not rationally organized
23:06:13 <espais> well, sure
23:06:40 <espais> but a weakened sandblast is at least useful....taking sandblast away kind of leaves squishier casters out to dry
23:06:45 <geekosaur> so now you don't have to wield stones to sandblast with them --- but that means there's no way to decide whether to use a stone or not, so now it always requires them
23:07:07 <gammafunk> by the time you run out of stones, you can cast stone arrow
23:07:11 <gammafunk> which is a very good L3 spell
23:07:32 <espais> i didn't have enough spell slots for sa at the point i ran out
23:07:35 <geekosaur> I haven't played much -ee since the change but my recollection (and observation in non-ee games) is stones are now common enough that it's not much of a problem
23:07:45 <espais> perhaps i got a good rng then
23:07:48 <espais> it was a very busy d1
23:08:18 <espais> ‎i have tried several DrEE's and never had the issue
23:08:22 <espais> but those always had the melee option
23:08:26 <geekosaur> it's also generally a good idea to pick up a weapon even without skill in it (I usually used axes)
23:08:33 <espais> sure
23:08:46 <espais> my main point was that DE tends to be a bit rough if you have to go melee
23:08:49 <espais> well
23:09:02 <espais> for somebody who is not as experienced with it anyway
23:09:11 <geekosaur> that can be shortened to "DE tends to be a bit rough" :)
23:10:11 <espais> yea
23:10:23 <espais> well, at least it seems that DE's health bar is simply the mana bar
23:10:26 <espais> once mana is gone you're toast
23:10:40 <espais> and if you cannot cast your L1 spell then....time for a new DE
23:10:49 <geekosaur> yeh, that's kinda the elf specialty :)
23:11:07 <espais> i guess i was moreso wondering if that decision made sense or if DE is a fringe case
23:11:15 <gammafunk> DE is an especially weak race in early dungeon levels
23:11:28 <geekosaur> elves are fragile by design
23:11:40 <espais> sure, that's why they're not on the beginner's list :)
23:12:14 <gammafunk> EE is still a very good start, it took a bit of a hit compared to other classes since it's possible to run out of stones if you have super awful rng maybe (more likely you're just refusing to use melee ever)
23:12:46 <espais> its not that i refuse to melee with elf
23:13:02 <espais> its that melee is pretty ineffective before fighting gets any real points in it
23:13:07 <espais> at least for the handful of games i played
23:13:28 <gammafunk> well you shouldn't be training fighting as a DE to get melee ability
23:13:32 <gammafunk> you should be training a weapon skill
23:13:50 <espais> i was training fighting to get some breathing room in case if i got hit by anything
23:14:00 <gammafunk> not only doe fighting have much less of an effect on melee damage compared to weapon skill, but you have a terrible fighting apt as a DE
23:14:30 <gammafunk> but DE don't have trouble getting stone arrow castable quickly
23:14:58 <espais> true
23:15:06 <espais> like i mentioned, it was more of a very early game point
23:15:19 <espais> if its a non-issue then i'm fine with the change
23:15:28 <gammafunk> right, well very early on, you do have those stones that do excellent damage
23:15:42 <espais> yep yep
23:15:50 <gammafunk> so as a DEEE I would recommend focusing on getting stone arrow castable asap
23:20:13 <espais> generally i skill up sc, earth+,  and fighting early on
23:21:53 <geekosaur> the secret is to focus exclusively on earth, in my experience
23:22:59 <geekosaur> sometimes I'll train two skills at once. 3 dilutes the skill points too much; nothing really progresses
23:23:10 <espais> hmm
23:23:18 <espais> that probably makes sense
23:23:28 <espais> when would you start up training fighting or sc?
23:23:30 <geekosaur> unless you get really lucky and find and defeat a lair-level monster on d2 or something
23:23:50 <espais> that spell hunger and lack of HP really hurts somebody like me who is...not a greaterplayer
23:24:29 <gammafunk> it's bettter to put more xp into earth, yeah
23:24:43 <gammafunk> I often do focused damage schools, unfocused spellcasting
23:24:46 <geekosaur> I never train fighting on a spellcaster; skilling your spell school early makes you able to kill stuff before it can affect your HP earlier. generally switch to spellcasting skill when earth is between 8 and 10
23:25:47 <geekosaur> (I'm not a greaterplayer. have morgues for ~10000 offline games, have never won and have only gotten to the orb run once. but that's largely because I don't focus on the game much; I play it like other people play solitaire :)
23:25:47 <gammafunk> whether or not you train spellcasting is up to you in terms of the tactics you're comfortable with and whether having more MP feels necessary (one to a few more casts can be pretty impactful early on)
23:25:52 <johnstein> geekosaur: I was agreeing that doing git add was probably a good idea for the scenario you used, even though it's annoying.  but it's still really really annoying for my particular workflow where I don't have a bunch of other things going on and I tend to use git commit -am a lot so I have to keep fixing it after accidentally committing my sdl fixes again. (sorry for late reply).
23:26:41 <gammafunk> but I agree that it's better to put more skill into earth; you'll gain MHP (and MMP) as you level, but you won't gain spellpower or ability to cast spells except when you're also gaining int
23:26:50 <geekosaur> johnstein, in this case I think you can just commit the change. might need to disable pushing submodules or somethong
23:27:03 <johnstein> also epais: I got TZer0's docker crawl working as a usable server. I just didn't get all the bells and whistles for a proper official server worked out
23:27:27 * geekosaur hasn't done much with patched submodules, but thought those were basically managed separately and doing a push on the main didn't also push submodules
23:27:36 <espais> that's neat...docker is a technology i don't have too much exp with so i thought it was kind of a nifty thing
23:27:42 <johnstein> geekosaur: yea. I was assuming there was a magical git command that might work.
23:28:00 <espais> i got my server running using the dgl guide
23:28:08 <johnstein> I'm sorry
23:28:28 <johnstein> now you are burdened with dgamelaunch arcane knowledge
23:28:43 <gammafunk> arcane dgamelaunchman
23:29:00 <geekosaur> johnstein, ok, as I thought git push doesn't push submodules
23:29:00 <geekosaur> so it should not be a problem to just make the commit locally
23:30:08 <espais> haha
23:30:17 <espais> i enjoy configuring linux servers, so it was fun
23:30:49 <espais> though i'm kind of taking it on faith that my chroot jail will keep everything inside
23:31:17 <espais> when i startup webtiles, it asks if one of the other users on the system can start it, not crawl or crawl-dev
23:33:08 <johnstein> I don't really enjoy configuring linux servers
23:33:34 <geekosaur> I'd imagine it lists only actual users and not system users (uid < 500). but you have it on port 80 so you need to run it as root or grant it a capability
23:33:37 <johnstein> but I like to make things work
23:34:16 <geekosaur> (CAP_NET_BIND_SERVICE)
23:35:55 <geekosaur> personally I'd run it as non-root (which I think is what it really wants you to do, and is a smart idea in general) and grant it that cap with setcap
23:47:36 <espais> interesting
23:47:39 <espais> never seen that command
23:57:56 <espais> alrighty, thanks all