00:02:41 <johnstein> I seem to remember something like that. I wasn't exactly sure the actual current status.
00:02:50 <johnstein> ?/cyno
00:02:51 <Sequell> No matches.
00:02:57 <hellmonk> I think thats the case for gnolls as well
00:03:05 <johnstein> I'm trying to remember who was doing cynos
00:03:07 <hellmonk> just disabled for tourney
00:03:19 <johnstein> Floodkiller?
00:03:26 <hellmonk> that sounds right
00:03:39 <hellmonk> no idea about dpegs_dynamic_monsters, I haven't heard anything about it in a while
00:03:44 <johnstein> and I can't remember which dev was focaling that one
00:03:49 <johnstein> but I think it's on crd
00:03:55 <johnstein> neat idea in theory
00:04:34 <checkers> johnstein: cyno became bultungin which became gnolls, so they are merged
00:04:47 <johnstein> oooh
00:04:50 <johnstein> didn't know that
00:04:53 <johnstein> neat
00:05:16 <checkers> council-god became ieoh jian council became wu jian which is also merged
00:05:46 <gammafunk> johnstein: you could bring back dynamic monsters, but not the others
00:05:55 <gammafunk> wu is in trunk, gnolls are in trunk, frogs are completed
00:05:59 <johnstein> should it get rebased first?
00:06:09 <johnstein> or updated or whatever the best way
00:06:17 <gammafunk> oh, well
00:06:31 <gammafunk> Lasty isn't working on it right now
00:06:41 <gammafunk> I guess someone could do a merge really quick
00:06:43 <gammafunk> maybe I should
00:06:49 <johnstein> currently all experimentals use trunk rc files. not sure if that causes any adverse issues with old versions
00:07:53 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07[dpegs_dynamic_monsters] * 0.21-a0-124-gab9bf4c: Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/master' into dpegs_dynamic_monsters 10(31 seconds ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ab9bf4c84b99
00:08:02 <gammafunk> johnstein: there, I just merged (no conflicts) and pushed
00:08:16 <johnstein> neat
00:38:56 <johnstein> so I'm adding some additional submenus for console
00:39:12 <johnstein> anyone think that will annoy people too much?
00:39:26 <johnstein> kinda of annoying when new versions come out and I have to shuffle things around. or if we get experimental-heavy again
00:39:34 <johnstein> but it adds more menus
00:39:55 <johnstein> I don't play console, so I don't really have a feel for the typical pain threshold
00:46:10 <johnstein> I suppose for older versions, it's just one more menu
00:48:13 <nikheizen> where are the submenus
00:48:45 <nikheizen> the main problem is if i can't press tp after logging in
00:49:04 <nikheizen> (though i guess this is on cbro?)
00:49:35 <johnstein> trunk and the latest stable won't be affected
00:49:44 <johnstein> and in the intra-tourney period, p defaults to trunk
00:49:47 <johnstein> so just PPPPPPPP
00:49:52 <johnstein> but yea, cbro
00:50:30 <nikheizen> I see you're moving 'x'perimental to the main menu?
00:50:49 <nikheizen> Right now it's in both the main menu and the trunk submenu.
00:51:00 <johnstein> yep
00:51:04 <johnstein> that's the next change
00:51:42 <nikheizen> That's a good idea, I remember when I first came to play experimentals on cbro I found it unintuitive that they were under trunk (though it technically makes sense)
00:52:02 <johnstein> used to make more sense
00:52:15 <johnstein> but these days we get a lot of community submitted experimentals
00:52:30 <johnstein> so there will be an Official Experimentals page, and an Unofficial one
00:53:05 <nikheizen> that's a somewhat bizarre distinction imo
00:54:46 <johnstein> it seemed like the easiest distinction to make to categorize them into different menus
00:54:52 <johnstein> hm
00:55:19 <johnstein> hmmmmmm
00:56:21 <nikheizen> Well it's not like you have much space with that fuckhuge warning I guess.
01:00:40 <johnstein> yea. it could use some revision
01:00:43 <checkers> i was about to say, do you need two groups
01:01:06 <johnstein> I just about did before last tourney
01:01:15 <johnstein> one more version and I was out of room
01:01:50 <johnstein> also, seems like I'd want to indicate that some of the versions aren't as official as others. or is that distinction completely unnecessary?
01:02:34 <nikheizen> completely unnecessary
01:05:18 <nikheizen> "Let's check out these experimental branches, oh I better stick to the ones which are more official instead of whatever sounds most interesting to me."
01:14:14 <johnstein> OK
01:14:29 <johnstein> easy enough to find other ways to differentiate if the need arises
01:14:34 <johnstein> ??rebuilt
01:14:34 <Sequell> rebuilt ~ rebuild[1/2]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ http://underhound.eu:81/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ http://crawl.xtahua.com/rebuild/ https://crawl.jorgrun.rocks/rebuild/ Bug |amethyst or Nap.Kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely.
01:15:37 <nikheizen> nice fudging of the name there
01:16:23 <johnstein> which name?
01:16:36 <nikheizen> n*pk*n
01:16:58 <johnstein> n@pk|n
01:27:37 <Rotatell> Experimental (hellcrawl-cbro) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: v1.0-329-g61495e2
01:30:07 <johnstein> !tell hellmonk got console hellcrawl up tonight. looks like version: v3.33-hellcrawl-38-g61495e2 let me know if anything is amiss. webtiles to follow later this week.
01:30:07 <Sequell> johnstein: OK, I'll let hellmonk know.
02:01:33 -!- n1k is now known as n1
02:25:08 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
02:33:02 <Rast-> !tell lasty https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23960
02:33:03 <Sequell> Rast-: OK, I'll let lasty know.
03:01:05 <minmay> Rast-: is that proposal serious?
03:01:11 <Rast-> yes
03:01:19 <Rast-> otherwise I would have posted in cyc
03:01:29 <Rast-> I know book starts are the strongest if played properly
03:01:35 <Rast-> they are still unfun because of mana issues
03:01:43 <Rast-> (and general spellcaster issues)
03:02:20 <minmay> increasing starting MP by 1 is a pretty huge buff
03:02:23 <Rast-> If you want to apply some other nerf later, not related to squeezing MMP, feel free
03:04:12 <Rast-> this was inspired by the "give books starts a weapon" thread, obviously
03:04:35 <minmay> well, you could make level 1 and 2 spells harder to cast to compensate, making you get a similar number of successful casts per MP bar as before
03:04:39 <minmay> but I don't think that would be an improvement over the status quo
03:04:48 <Rast-> ugh, thats unfun. a slight dmg decrease would be OK. maybe
03:05:16 <Rast-> notice that after a very few levels you're back at the same amount of MMP
03:05:32 <minmay> right
03:05:45 <Rast-> and in midgame you're actually a point or two behind, if you would have trained spellcasting to 6 or 8
03:05:55 <minmay> but you're suggesting giving e.g. Hu elementalists 25% more casts before they run out of MP at XL1
03:06:05 <Rast-> which is auotmatic on deep elf or whatever, maybe less so on spellcasting -1 apt races
03:06:12 <Rast-> yeah
03:06:19 <minmay> and by 25% more I mean 33.33% more
03:06:24 <Rast-> 4 MMP instead of 3 for a huge chunk of races
03:06:26 <Rast-> right
03:06:33 <minmay> so that's a really big buff unless you decrease shock damage by 25% to compensate
03:07:11 <Rast-> this awsome 33% advantage lasts until XL2
03:07:19 <Rast-> then they are right back to par
03:08:01 <Rast-> there will be another slight boost if you train spellcasting to 4.0 before XL4
03:08:38 <Rast-> after that you are back at status quo. and after that you are worse than status quo until xl 25.
03:10:09 <minmay> yes, your suggestion basically just buffs XL1 mage starts, I'm aware of that, my point is, why is that desirable? mage backgrounds already do great at XL1
03:11:21 <minmay> I do like the idea of getting rid of the min(4, min(XL, skill) / 2) since it's gross, but there's no need to bundle an XL1 buff with it
03:12:24 <Rast-> imo they are worse at XL:1
03:12:36 <minmay> worse than what at XL1?
03:12:40 <Rast-> fighter
03:13:00 <Rast-> unlimited swings of the sword vs 3 casts of sting and then fists
03:13:07 <nikheizen> How attached you are to D:1-3 being super dangerous?
03:13:31 <minmay> nikheizen: extremely attached
03:13:42 <nikheizen> depressing
03:13:47 <Rast-> this isn't even d:2
03:13:50 <Rast-> or all of d:1
03:16:07 <minmay> Rast-: most non-mage backgrounds are worse than fighter, especially at XL1, since it starts with a potion of auto-win fights for the next 30 turns
03:16:30 <Rast-> i was going to say gladiator next
03:16:32 <Rast-> but nets
03:17:11 <Rast-> im ok with most backgrounds being able to do things at xl:1
03:17:12 <minmay> I guess I should ask: what's the goal of this change? is it just to buff mage backgrounds at XL1, or is it to simplify the max MP formula?
03:17:46 <Rast-> its to reduce the unfun variance of starting with 3 MMP and no way to kill things besides MP and fists
03:17:59 <Rast-> simplifying the MMP forumla is just a nice bonus
03:18:30 <Rast-> if it turned out to make XL:1 mages unstoppable killing machines, feel free to slightly reduce spell damage to compensate
03:18:34 <n1> buffing a strong start might be a secondary result. There's no a priori reason for all backgrounds to be balanced if mage XL1's are unfun
03:18:34 <minmay> I doubt you'll find broad agreement that it's unfun to run out of MP, since if running out of MP were considered unfun and bad for the game, MP would have been removed by now
03:18:53 <Rast-> its fine to run out, but not when you only have 3 casts
03:19:06 <Rast-> and early on so many chances to fail or to miss or to roll 0 dmg
03:19:23 <minmay> so how is having 4 casts more fun than having 3, in any way other than being stronger
03:19:31 <n1> running out of mp can be fine and it can also be good to decrease the amount of regening around a pillar on D:1
03:19:35 <Rast-> less variance
03:20:21 <Rast-> again, no matter how insane this might make caster starts, at XL:2 they are right back where they are right now
03:20:31 <Rast-> which, memes aside, isn't an autowin for any background
03:20:32 <minmay> ok, I think I understand now; you'd be happy with +33% max MP but -25% damage, right?
03:20:55 <Rast-> mm monster AC and miss chance makes that tricky
03:21:08 <Rast-> my suggestion is to do the mana increase only to start with
03:21:16 <Rast-> and then the damage nerf later if needed
03:22:00 <minmay> See, my first impression upon hearing I get 33% more max MP isn't "wow I have less variance now", it's "wow I have more damage now"
03:22:18 <Rast-> that's fair, but
03:22:23 <minmay> I didn't even think of variance until you mentioned it 60 seconds ago
03:22:27 <Rast-> any damage decrease is going to hurt at XL:2
03:22:40 <Rast-> where you have the same amount of mana as always, but now your damage got nerfed
03:22:57 <minmay> Suppose for the sake of argument that this 25% damage decrease only applies during the time that you have the +33% max MP
03:23:28 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.21-a0-111-g52d2817 (34)
03:23:29 <nikheizen> Rast- tbh better to remove miscasting spells and accuracy/evasion
03:23:34 <minmay> it's a hypothetical either way since crawl damage doesn't work in a way where you can actually apply a % damage bonus/penalty
03:24:07 <Rast-> ... of course you can make slight changes to damage formulas to various spells
03:25:03 <minmay> nikheizen: that's not better, since Rast-'s complaint is only about XL1, and it's much easier to change XL1 and only (or mostly) XL1 with max MP than it is to only change XL1 by removing miscasting and missing
03:25:21 <Rast-> ??sting
03:25:21 <Sequell> sting[1/1]: Level 1 spell in {Young Poisoner's Handbook}. Deals up to 1d8 poison damage and has a 66% chance of inflicting {poison} on non-resistant targets. VM starts with this spell memorized. To-hit: 8+power/5.
03:25:52 <minmay> The closest you could get would be to decrease the difficulty of level 1 spells, but that has undesirable side effects, namely making level 1 spells easier to learn after XL1 (they don't need to be even more free)
03:26:11 <minmay> I do agree that sting specifically is bad
03:26:38 <Rast-> ok minmay, take Pain for example. according to the spell guide for cool people, it does 1d(4+power/5) with a power cap of 25.
03:26:58 <Rast-> that could just as easily be 1d(4+power/7) with a cap of 35
03:27:24 <Rast-> (it could also stay where it is)
03:28:11 <Rast-> what im saying is boost xl:1 MMP first and then if it turns out to be just too awesome, you can nerf spell damage later
03:28:56 <Rast-> beta has to be for something more than adding gods which people hate
03:29:01 <n1> Rast-, it might be helpful if in that post you flesh out why you think XL1 is so painful
03:29:05 <Rast-> and races which are busted
03:29:15 <n1> (I think we understand, but tavern readers might be helped)
03:29:30 <Rast-> n1, you're right, i kind assumed people were familiar with the 3MP caster complaints
03:30:45 <Rast-> speaking of Ba, are you ready to admit yet that they are busted, minmay ?
03:33:10 <ProzacElf> mmm
03:33:14 <ProzacElf> 3 mp caster
03:33:16 <ProzacElf> best caster
03:35:09 <minmay> ...busted in what way?
03:35:44 <minmay> if you mean more powerful than median then excuse me while i laugh myself into the next dimension
03:35:47 <Rast-> they surely are
03:35:55 <Rast-> because of the hop and the great apts
03:36:23 <minmay> ok but have you considered
03:36:24 <minmay> 1. slow
03:36:26 <minmay> 2. slow
03:36:27 <minmay> 3. 8los
03:36:27 <Rast-> the hop means that if you are anywhere near stairs, you just hop to stairs and excape for free
03:36:28 <minmay> 4. slow
03:36:36 <nikheizen> Rast-: imo don't bother.
03:36:45 <minmay> yeah which you could already do on any race that isn't slow
03:36:47 <Rast-> the slow is like one monster hit every ten moves. its almost normal speed
03:37:18 <Rast-> you can also mix walking with hopping
03:37:35 <Rast-> you cant quite hop every 10 moves, it feels more like every 20. havent checked source
03:37:41 <Rast-> its really good regardless
03:38:34 <Rast-> its like, you screw up and get surrounded or are adjacent to a nasty
03:38:43 <Rast-> you hop. then you walk for a while. then you hop again
03:38:45 <minmay> -Hop is (11+1d13)*10 aut and does not decrement if you are moving
03:38:47 <Rast-> then you go up stairs
03:38:53 <Rast-> huh. OK
03:39:12 <Rast-> i could swear i had long chases where i got to hop twice
03:39:40 <Rast-> um, one thing for sure, if theres popcorn around, you can hop from being chased by nasties to being chased by popcorn
03:39:41 <minmay> well, you could, but you'd be wrong
03:39:51 <minmay> none of the things you are talking about require hop
03:39:52 <Rast-> that might be what confused me
03:40:38 <Rast-> going from being surrounded by monsters to hopping and running to a corridor being chased by the popcorn
03:40:59 <Rast-> where you can fight for a bit to let hop recharge.
03:41:16 <Rast-> how long has -Hop not decremented while walking?
03:41:26 <minmay> since it was added to the game
03:41:31 <Rast-> OK.
03:41:57 <Rast-> even the one hop is pretty sweet
03:42:34 <Rast-> !lg * t ba /won
03:42:35 <Sequell> 50/1888 games for * (t ba): N=50/1888 (2.65%)
03:42:38 <Rast-> !lg * t /won
03:42:40 <Sequell> 1710/80365 games for * (t): N=1710/80365 (2.13%)
03:42:51 <Rast-> !lg * t na /won
03:42:53 <Sequell> 31/1661 games for * (t na): N=31/1661 (1.87%)
03:43:46 <minmay> !lg * t mu / won
03:43:47 <Sequell> 30/1829 games for * (t mu): N=30/1829 (1.64%)
03:44:00 <minmay> !lg * t s=crace / won o=-%
03:44:03 <Sequell> 1710/80365 games for * (t): 0/1x Gnoll [0.00%], 27/4153x Octopode [0.65%], 40/4529x Draconian [0.88%], 92/9345x Demonspawn [0.98%], 46/4430x Deep Elf [1.04%], 30/2032x Vampire [1.48%], 39/2615x Spriggan [1.49%], 34/2105x Tengu [1.62%], 26/1591x Kobold [1.63%], 30/1829x Mummy [1.64%], 35/1892x Human [1.85%], 31/1661x Naga [1.87%], 36/1881x Ogre [1.91%], 59/2823x Formicid [2.09%], 70/3065x Merfolk [...
03:44:28 <minmay> spriggan: worse than mummy
03:45:02 <Rast-> terrible hp, missing aux slots, cant wear normal body armour
03:46:15 <minmay> and they dont even have hop!
03:46:21 <Rast-> heh
04:05:46 <gammafunk> ooh, proving species strength with sequell queries
04:05:56 <gammafunk> this is where things get good
04:08:41 <gammafunk> !lg * t s=cls o=-% / won
04:08:43 <Sequell> 1710/80365 games for * (t): 41/5431x Abyssal Knight [0.75%], 45/4259x Transmuter [1.06%], 38/2569x Wizard [1.48%], 44/2948x Fire Elementalist [1.49%], 50/3144x Enchanter [1.59%], 102/6080x Monk [1.68%], 45/2528x Conjurer [1.78%], 56/3023x Wanderer [1.85%], 50/2593x Earth Elementalist [1.93%], 39/2010x Necromancer [1.94%], 40/2051x Ice Elementalist [1.95%], 45/2035x Skald [2.21%], 346/15368x Fighte...
04:09:06 <gammafunk> minmay: so now you see that FE is garbage tier compared to Su
04:09:14 <gammafunk> I demand a retraction
04:09:36 <gammafunk> also compared to Monk, which is obviously secretly stronger than enchanter
04:20:22 <n1> ddvm was the strongest combo until devs ruined it (coincidentally same version when it was an nchoice)
04:31:48 <minmay> MuSk
04:40:55 <gammafunk> Elon?
04:54:54 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
04:57:16 <johnstein> in layout_geoelf_castle there's a bunch of print statements that should print if DEBUG_CASTLE_DESIGN = true. I set it to true but I don't see anything printing. do I need to compile it or run it a certain way to get the print statements?
05:27:39 -!- Mythres_ is now known as Mythres
06:37:53 -!- bh is now known as Guest73451
07:15:31 -!- bh is now known as Guest71353
07:59:31 <neofelis> I just cloned the crawl repo for the first time in a while, did the submodule thing & make & am getting segfaults on running the result, not always but often. sample log: http://sprunge.us/fbVY
08:11:45 -!- Guest71353 is now known as bh
08:32:21 -!- bh_ is now known as Guest16709
08:56:18 <advil> hmm that looks familiar
08:57:55 <advil> iirc there's a subtle bug in the multithreaded db init stuff, that no one has found, and that only shows up on some platforms
08:58:07 <advil> %git 2e1702711870b93c623b37ec4aed4bad5d307116
08:58:07 <Cheibriados> 07Grunt02 * 0.15-a0-78-g2e17027: Disable multithreaded loading on Windows (#5354). 10(3 years, 3 months ago, 1 file, 5+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2e1702711870
08:59:22 <|amethyst> is the startup speed for database rebuilds really worth it?
09:01:08 <advil> seems unlikely
09:01:20 <advil> ah elliptic noticed this back in march, probably linux also, and disabled multithreading on his build to fix it, that's what I'm remembering
09:02:21 <neofelis> how do I do that? make with some kind of options probably?
09:02:22 <advil> https://bpaste.net/raw/f323cd3bbb0d
09:02:41 <advil> yeah, very similar crash
09:03:02 <advil> it's not too hard, but let me see if he pasted a patch in channel or anything like that
09:05:35 <neofelis> also, while I'm here: iirc I'm supposed to email the cdo admin if I forget my password (rather than !telling him or whatever)
09:06:03 <neofelis> and it's been long enough that I've forgotten it, but it's not clear to me how to reach him
09:06:10 <neofelis> er, s/him/them there
09:06:58 <neofelis> there doesn't seem to be contact info anywhere obvious
09:09:54 <advil> hmm not sure offhand, but someone here should know
09:10:54 <neofelis> I'd see a !tell; it's no rush at all.
09:16:39 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.21-a0-112-gd00fd6f: Disable multithreaded db init for linux (5354, elliptic, nofelis) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d00fd6f4884f
09:16:47 <advil> oops I spelled your name wrong, sorry
09:17:31 <advil> ugh
09:18:26 <neofelis> it's quite ok! thank you for fixing it
09:18:44 <advil> anyways, you can either use that patch to see what to do, or just pull if you're in a cloned repo
09:18:48 <neofelis> I fixed it locally about a minute before your commit by adding && 0 to those lines. well, "fixed" anyway
09:20:46 <|amethyst> advil:  Do we know that it works for Mac OS and Solaris and BSD?  :)
09:21:26 <advil> I know it works for some mac configs b/c I tried to replicate it a bunch when talking to elliptic
09:22:00 <advil> though it's really unclear what the trigger is
09:22:03 <|amethyst> advil:  it also works for some Linux configs, since I have never encountered the problem
09:22:07 <advil> yeah
09:22:23 <advil> I think my commit msg may acknowledge your concerns :D
09:22:58 <advil> neofelis: you are using the submodule sql, right?
09:25:34 <neofelis> I assume so. I did git submodule update --init before compiling, and since that's a submodule you use it should be there?
09:25:45 * neofelis understands nothing about submodules at all
09:26:03 <neofelis> sqlite, anyway
09:26:04 <advil> yeah
09:26:23 <|amethyst> unless you have the sqlite3 library and headers installed on your system already
09:28:36 <neofelis> I do, actually
09:30:38 <|amethyst> you could try (with the version before advil's commit)   make BUILD_SQLITE=yes
09:33:28 <advil> we apparently aren't explicit when opening the db about what mode to use
09:33:35 <advil> so it will default to compile time settings
09:36:12 <neofelis> tried it; it does crash
09:37:05 <|amethyst> oh
09:37:33 <advil> all the time?
09:37:45 <|amethyst> so we don't actually use -pthread in our cflags
09:37:52 <advil> yeah I've always wondered about that
09:37:53 <|amethyst> I suspect that is bad
09:37:58 <advil> well
09:38:41 <advil> how do you force a db rebuild?
09:38:54 <|amethyst> rm -rf saves/db/
09:38:59 <advil> thanks
09:39:16 <neofelis> advil, it never crashes all the time: elliptic in that log said ~20% of the time, and with me it's similar
09:39:27 <advil> ok thanks
09:39:40 <neofelis> ...I should probably not have pinged ell.iptic there, sorry
09:40:24 <advil> I think he's ok with pings? could be wrong about that
09:40:33 <advil> if I'm wrong I just pinged him a lot
09:40:38 <neofelis> xD
09:40:45 <|amethyst> I guess we're getting -lpthread because of linking against a threaded sqlite3
09:40:52 <|amethyst> but -pthread does more than that
09:41:19 <|amethyst> some library functions have to be replaced with thread-safe versions
09:45:33 <advil> also it appears that clang has a non-standard behavior wrt absence if -pthread, which could explain why this bug doesn't seem to show on os x
09:45:41 <advil> *absence of
09:46:56 <advil> weridly, we are using it on windows?
09:47:00 <advil> *weirdly
09:52:10 <advil> huh, I may have replicated it on os x by forcing sql into single thread mode?
10:05:52 <advil> two more observations: (i) crawl will create multiple threads for db init regardless of how sqlite is configured, and (ii) I cannot for the life of me provoke *any* meaningful difference in db regen time by disabling or enabling any configuration of multiple threads and sqlite config
10:06:29 <advil> `sqlite3_threadsafe` I think just returns true if the version is in principle compatible with multithreading
10:08:02 <advil> I'm pretty sure this bug is(/can be) caused by (somehow) linking against a version of sqlite that has single threading as the default (as crawl won't notice this), so that could be fixed, but I don't see any downside to just serializing the whole thing
10:09:40 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.21-a0-112-gd00fd6f (34)
10:11:09 <advil> it's less than .1s difference for me (granted, this is a new computer)
10:11:36 <advil> the thing that takes a long time is des regeneration, not db regen
10:19:49 <advil> %git 0e9f143427c81ed407f51b85597ccb6f84319a18
10:19:49 <Cheibriados> 07kilobyte02 * 0.10-a0-2933-g0e9f143: Threading support. 10(6 years ago, 7 files, 135+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0e9f143427c8
10:20:03 <advil> weird change to -pthread in ^
10:20:14 <advil> not sure why it would be windows-specific
10:21:15 <advil> oh, I misread
10:21:42 <advil> we should have -pthread on everything but android
10:22:07 <advil> |amethyst: I might just remove mulithreaded db init, any objections?
12:41:11 -!- Chthon is now known as ChthonicOne
12:54:32 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
13:45:28 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.21-a0-113-g6841d05: Single-threaded db init (5354) 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 29-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6841d05e474c
14:09:30 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.21-a0-113-g6841d05 (34)
14:51:20 <johnstein> I was trying to get some print statements in a lua layout file to display when running, but I can't see anything printed
14:51:55 <johnstein> setting DEBUG_CASTLE_DESIGN = true in layout_geoelf_castle
14:52:14 <geekosaur> I expect you need a FULLDEBUG build
14:53:13 <johnstein> but FULLDEBUG is pretty overwhelming. is there an intermediate level?
14:54:10 <advil> you should be able to print with mpr in lua
14:54:37 <advil> crawl.mpr
14:54:39 <geekosaur> the point here is there's a lot (I mean a LOT) of existing debug output in that des file, using lua's print
14:55:02 <advil> ah
14:56:40 <advil> wonder where those even go to
14:56:42 <advil> stdout?
14:56:52 <johnstein> so lua print only works under FULLDEBUG. and otherwise basically gets printed to the void?
14:56:55 <geekosaur> that's what johnstein is trying to figure out
14:57:13 <johnstein> I tried launching tiles build from command line but didn't see anything pop up
14:57:15 <advil> I doubt that even in a FULLDEBUG build lua print gets displayed with crawl messages
14:57:23 <johnstein> hm
14:57:35 <johnstein> !seen infiniplex
14:57:35 <Sequell> I last saw infiniplex at Tue Dec 16 23:28:34 2014 UTC (about 2y 29w 6d 19h 29m 1s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: Page closed'.
14:57:51 <johnstein> maybe he will log in today
15:00:24 <advil> well if you don't get an answer, you can just convert whatever print statements you want to see to crawl.mpr
15:01:11 <johnstein> yea. I thought about something like that. is it just a direct replacement?
15:01:33 <johnstein> thought crawl.mpr was what you did in the cpp files
15:02:15 <advil> crawl.mpr calls crawl's mpr, it will print to the in-game console
15:04:35 <advil> it actually does appear that lua print may go to stdout, but stdout is not really usable for something like crawl
15:05:15 <geekosaur> hm. wonder if infiniplex was using a tiles build
15:05:24 <geekosaur> or webtiles
15:05:35 <advil> I haven't checked what's happening with tiles yet, that was just on crawl
15:05:37 <advil> er
15:05:39 <advil> console
15:05:49 <geekosaur> (tiles more likely, you could easily capture stdout; webtiles would need editing the server foo)
15:06:45 <johnstein> I'm using tiles
15:06:59 <geekosaur> windows?
15:07:13 <johnstein> I didn't see anything in stdout when running ./crawl.exe from msys2
15:07:14 <advil> to actually see the print messages I had to redirect stdout, and they're mixed in with what I guess is a bunch of control codes
15:07:15 <johnstein> yes
15:07:24 <geekosaur> (there's an unresolved issue where switching to gui mode kills console output, because windows.)
15:07:32 <johnstein> oh
15:07:43 <geekosaur> hav been several attempted fixes, each of which breaks something else
15:08:06 <johnstein> all I want to do is make that corridor double wide
15:08:23 <johnstein> the corridor that surrounds the rooms that surround the primary vault
15:08:42 <johnstein> the lines suggested yesterday weren't the right ones
15:09:15 <johnstein> I just need to step through the code but I don't think I can debug that layout des file in debug mode, can I?
15:10:21 <advil> yeah, when I run a test with some print output from the command line with a tiles build, I get that output directly
15:11:27 <advil> I'm guessing it's the same for dungeon stuff
15:12:44 <advil> if you want to see it on a windows build I think changing it all to crawl.mpr is your best bet
15:14:00 <advil> there's also crawl.stderr (which gets used tests and would be easier to redirect, but maybe also doesn't work on windows)
15:16:05 <johnstein> thanks
15:19:05 <amalloy> windows has a concept of stderr too, so it might well work
15:21:13 <geekosaur> but it still gets disabled when going into gui mode
15:21:29 <johnstein> I was hoping since I was using msys2 that I'd avoid some of the Windows problems
15:22:27 <advil> I'm not even sure there's an active dev right now who directly builds on windows, so you're probably more likely to discover them than avoid them :D
15:22:32 <johnstein> I can deal with debugging in console mode if I need to. I just need some way of debugging. it's pretty annoying trying to figure this out
15:22:43 <johnstein> heh
15:26:10 <geekosaur> I think your best bet is a linux in a VM
15:49:58 <johnstein> wonder if I could develop on a raspberry pi
15:50:15 <johnstein> pi-crawl
15:57:43 -!- hyperbolic is now known as elliptic
18:02:22 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.21-a0-113-g6841d05 (34)
18:07:58 <geekosaur> Nov 07 18:14:34 <kilobyte>	about that CLAN rebuild yesterday: an -O2 WEBTILES=y build on a raspi took 184 minutes, same as CLAN, so it looks like my suspicions are true :/
18:08:16 <geekosaur> unfortunately I didn't have years in the log entries back then
18:10:50 <geekosaur> sadly I couldn't find the one I really wanted, where 1kb compared his rpi build speed to cbro :p
18:15:16 -!- Fixer_ is now known as Fixer
18:21:28 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[header_simplification] * 0.21-a0-114-g8b85549: Pull a tiles dependency out of player.h 10(4 days ago, 10 files, 52+ 57-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8b8554994a74
18:21:28 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[header_simplification] * 0.21-a0-115-g8779768: Factor tile-related #ifdefs out of AppHdr.h 10(4 days ago, 45 files, 102+ 81-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8779768f0243
18:21:28 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[header_simplification] * 0.21-a0-116-gd2ad500: Remove some tiles-related ifdefs from state.h 10(3 days ago, 2 files, 3+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d2ad50005d9b
18:21:28 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[header_simplification] * 0.21-a0-117-g9766c24: Remove an ifdef in message.h 10(3 days ago, 2 files, 5+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9766c24e7203
18:21:28 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[header_simplification] * 0.21-a0-118-g66b5d33: Relocate an ifdef'd function from view.h to tiles-build-specific.h 10(3 days ago, 8 files, 14+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/66b5d3384292
18:21:28 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[header_simplification] * 0.21-a0-119-g868a11d: Remove an old function definition 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 0+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/868a11d9fde6
18:21:28 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[header_simplification] * 0.21-a0-120-g7f6a83f: Another batch of removing/relocating ifdefs from .h files 10(3 days ago, 14 files, 41+ 31-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7f6a83f035ce
18:21:28 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[header_simplification] * 0.21-a0-121-g4dad355: Use a different strategy for `flash_monster_colour` 10(3 days ago, 6 files, 9+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4dad3554f68c
18:21:28 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[header_simplification] * 0.21-a0-122-g43b3ea6: An attempt to update the MSVC project 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/43b3ea631c2e
18:21:53 <advil> sorry, rebase spam
19:29:13 -!- Tux[Qyou] is now known as ohno
19:29:18 -!- ohno is now known as Tux[Qyou]
19:58:56 -!- steven_ is now known as stebl
20:45:29 <checkers> advil: is the db init stuff you just disabled possibly related to the weird bugs CPO experiences?
21:40:49 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
21:55:35 -!- Guest16709 is now known as bh
22:52:44 <advil> checkers: I don't think so, unless you are building without dgl?
22:52:55 <advil> the game lock files are something else
23:59:12 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.21-a0-113-g6841d05 (34)