00:08:42 <johnstein> nikheizen: that was a fun time
02:35:04 <minmay> if i wear fencer's gloves will i riposte with longbow bashes
02:42:10 <amalloy> minmay: yes, apparently
02:43:24 <Doesnty> yes
02:43:28 <Doesnty> from experience
02:46:41 <minmay> so i'm in shoals and pressing f. a lot right
02:46:45 <minmay> because i don't want deep water to eat my ammo
02:47:09 <minmay> this also means that if i get caught in a net i'll waste a bunch of turns because 'f' prints a message instead of bringing up the targeting interface, and '.' waits instead of struggling against the net
02:52:02 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-110-g8e1637b
02:56:18 <minmay> okay
07:06:25 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
09:38:07 <Wander> Anyone know the maximum size for vaults? And does ORIENT affect this (encompass vs float, etc)?
09:39:11 <Wander> Also, what exactly does encompass do?
09:50:06 <|amethyst> encompass means the vault is the whole level
09:50:56 <|amethyst> meaning a max of 80 x 70 for encompass vaults
09:52:00 <|amethyst> other vaults should probably be smaller so there's room for the layout to place its stuff
09:53:07 <|amethyst> minivaults (without an ORIENT: line) should be smaller, since they're placed on top of an already-generated level (after the layout)
09:53:34 <|amethyst> there used to be a 12x12 limit for minivaults; that is gone now, but you should still try to keep them small
09:54:06 <|amethyst> otherwise the level generator might have problems finding a place to put them that doesn't cut off parts of the level
09:57:57 <Wander> amethyst: thanks!  do you know if there's something I can do to my vault to give it high priority (level generator places it first and builds everything else around it)
09:58:11 <Wander> for reference, I'm making a river vault
10:01:00 <Wander> rough draft: https://pastebin.com/t3nxACEP
10:01:20 <Wander> I was trying to test it in wizmode, but it crashes my game half the time
10:03:55 <|amethyst> hm
10:03:58 <|amethyst> testing it how?
10:04:14 <|amethyst> &L or &P ?
10:04:23 <Wander> &P, it was working sometimes when I used encompass
10:04:32 <|amethyst> but then it's your whole level
10:04:44 <|amethyst> hrm
10:04:44 <Wander> yeah, guess that's a bad idea, lol
10:05:05 <Wander> is there a different limit for float or the directions?
10:05:19 <|amethyst> the only real limit is 80x70
10:05:31 <|amethyst> might be useful to use a fulldebug build (make debug) to see what is causing it to fail
10:06:47 <|amethyst> hm
10:06:54 <Wander> oh, I'm dumb. Could have tried the console version
10:07:05 <Wander> yep, just gave me an error
10:07:44 <Wander> map too large - 59-14 (max 53x46)
10:07:48 <|amethyst> oh
10:07:57 <|amethyst> I did not know about that limit
10:08:01 <Wander> I always forget about console
10:08:16 <Wander> sorry for wasting your time
10:08:51 <Wander> but it should be fine if I leave it as float and just reduce the length to 53, you think?
10:09:03 <|amethyst> yeah
10:09:07 <Wander> mmk
10:09:20 <|amethyst> it *might* help (result in fewer vetoes) to give it the "transparent" tag
10:09:56 <Wander> ok will do :)
10:09:56 <|amethyst> if you don't, the whole thing will count as wall for the purpose of level-connectivity checks
10:10:59 <|amethyst> which is usually fine, but for a vault this big that could be a problem
10:11:00 <|amethyst> hmm
10:11:10 <|amethyst> so, since you don't have no_rotate
10:11:29 <|amethyst> you might want to restrict it to 46x46
10:11:41 <Wander> oh
10:12:10 <|amethyst> otherwise it will be too big when it gets rotated, and it will retry, so you'd have the effect of no_rotate anyway, but more expensive
10:12:22 <Wander> good point
10:13:21 <|amethyst> apparently the limit is:
10:13:49 <|amethyst> for float, centre, and corner orients, 2/3 in each direction of the level size, so 2/3*(80x70) = 53x46
10:15:08 <Wander> ty, I'll just keep it as float then and reduce to 46
10:15:31 <|amethyst> for edge orients, 2/3 in the direction of the orient, the full level size in the direction parallel to the edge.  So a map with ORIENT: east (after rotation) can be 53x70, and ORIENT: north 80x46
10:15:43 <|amethyst> not sure about minivaults
10:17:03 <|amethyst> (I don't remember if they get MAP_FLOAT orient, or MAP_NONE or something else
10:17:07 <|amethyst> )
11:47:04 <advil> hm was it crashing because of the map too large error?
11:47:12 <advil> seems like that ought to be checked somewhere else
11:48:46 <Wander> yeah, although this was in wizmode using &P
11:49:17 <Wander> interestingly those savefiles I was using are bugged now, they crash if I try to load them
11:52:55 <advil> ok, that error will show up when it tries to regenerate the des files too (and cause crawl to fail to start)
11:53:23 <advil> that's more the behavior I was expecting
11:53:47 <advil> not sure if that's specific to a debug build or what
12:06:27 <|amethyst> advil:  normally it would try again, and this time would pick a different map so not screw up
12:06:40 <|amethyst> but with &P it has no choice as to the map
12:07:27 <|amethyst> advil:  oh, it does fail at mapgen?  interesting
12:08:25 <|amethyst> ah, I see, this code is in validate_map_def, not when it is placed
12:08:39 <|amethyst> which makes the situation with rotation a little weird...
12:09:29 <|amethyst> ah, it gets checked again in can_dock which would happen at placement time
12:09:54 <|amethyst> hm, no, that check is >
13:30:49 <Wander> probably a dumb question, but in a vault... can I not place items in shallow water?
13:33:44 <Wander> KITEM isn't working for me here. The human skeletons are dropping 100% (should only be 50%) and none of the other items are dropping. https://pastebin.com/nt9GeBX8
15:02:08 <|amethyst> Wander:  delayed_decay does   KITEM: ? = human skeleton <more stuff>
15:04:34 <|amethyst> Wander:  were it not for the 50% you could do:
15:04:56 <|amethyst> Wander:  : dgn.delayed_decay_extra(_G, '?', 'human skeleton', 'any good_item / any superb_item / nothing w:20')
15:05:19 <|amethyst> Wander:  but I don't think that would work with 'human skeleton / nothing' because it would try to add "never_decay" to the "nothing"
15:05:52 <|amethyst> Wander:  you could look at the implementation of delayed_decay and use something like that
15:05:57 <|amethyst> Wander:  in dat/dlua/lm_items.lua
15:06:13 <|amethyst> Wander:  something like  KITEM: ? = human skeleton never_decay / nothing, blah, blah
15:07:05 <|amethyst> Wander:  then   : _G.lua_marker('?', function () return function_in_los("dgn.activate_item_decay", nil, false, nil) end)
15:07:22 <|amethyst> Wander:  but I might have some of that wrong, so you'll have to play around
15:51:07 <Wander> |amethyst : thank you very much! I didn't get the fancy thing to work, so I just ditched the 50% and used your first suggestion. Works just fine!
16:40:53 -!- frd is now known as Wieselflink
16:49:39 <Cheibriados> 10 New Vaults 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11140 by WanderingBlade
17:10:25 <Cheibriados> "Attack new target" order behaves weirdly if there is disturbance nearby 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11141 by Lavandula
17:23:18 <minmay> !tv nago kaux~~something
17:23:19 <Sequell> 1. nago, XL27 GrMo, T:82496 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org.
17:26:05 <|amethyst> Wander:  double check that they do in fact rot
17:26:31 <|amethyst> Wander:  if the marker gets screwed up for whatever reason, the corpses will last forever
17:26:50 <|amethyst> Wander:  (the marker makes them start rotting when they enter LOS)
18:22:12 <Wander> |amethyst : yeah, I just checked and they rot. Thanks for the reminder, though! It made me realize that there were a couple unrelated errors, which I fixed. I think they came from last-minute tweaks to the loot in a couple of the vaults.
18:22:43 <Wander> I uploaded a new file with the fixes
19:03:37 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
19:22:32 -!- crate_ is now known as crate
19:23:08 <Floodkiller> has there been any discussion/progress on merging/partial merging/rejecting the gnoll change PR?
19:27:00 <gammafunk> yeah, sorry I haven't done anything with that
19:28:18 <gammafunk> There wasn't a lot of excitement about gnolls from the brief discussions I had with other devs, and I didn't want to take ownership of that project given that I'm working on other things right now
19:29:52 <gammafunk> The only opinion I heard was from MPA who said that while he wasn't really excited about Gnolls, the stat locking version is certainly better than the dynamic apt version, and that he leaned weakly towards not giving them a stat choice
19:37:01 <Floodkiller> well, I could be wrong from my own playtesting, so I would be okay with trying it without stat choice or some other stat growth at the moment
19:37:14 <Floodkiller> and it (or the base stat line) could be changed later
19:44:12 <gammafunk> yeah, we should probably just merge your stat lock patch for the time being
19:44:44 <gammafunk> I'm not going to be able to do that merge today, but I'll try to get to it tomorrow
19:44:48 <gammafunk> if no one else does, that is
19:45:00 <Floodkiller> alright, that's cool
19:45:50 <Floodkiller> I was mainly checking up on it to see if I needed to start working on another implementation for gnolls, or if I could mess around with some major extended reform changes I've been brainstorming
19:57:12 <gammafunk> ??tomb
19:57:12 <Sequell> tomb[1/4]: Accessed from the Crypt on the third level. Three levels deep, with a golden rune at the bottom.
19:58:12 <gammafunk> ??stone stairs
19:58:12 <Sequell> I don't have a page labeled stone_stairs in my learndb.
19:59:32 <gammafunk> ??stair dancing
19:59:33 <Sequell> stair dancing[1/1]: The process of dragging enemies up stairs so as to kill them in smaller groups.
20:03:26 <gammafunk> !learn set tomb[1] Accessed from the Crypt on the third level. Three levels deep, with a golden rune at the bottom. In 0.20, Tomb has its stairs replaced with one-way staircases that are like escape hatches that lead to a pre-determined destinations, thus preventing {stair dancing}. A one-way staircase that returns to the previous level can be found near by (but out of LOS) of each stair case's
20:03:27 <Sequell> tomb[1/4]: Accessed from the Crypt on the third level. Three levels deep, with a golden rune at the bottom. In 0.20, Tomb has its stairs replaced with one-way staircases that are like escape hatches that lead to a pre-determined destinations, thus preventing {stair dancing}. A one-way staircase that returns to the previous level can be found near by (but out of LOS) of each stair case's
20:03:32 <gammafunk> destination.
20:03:44 <gammafunk> oops
20:03:52 <gammafunk> let's try that again
20:05:01 <gammafunk> !learn set tomb[1] Accessed from the Crypt on the third level. Three levels deep, with a golden rune at the bottom. In 0.20, Tomb has its stairs replaced with one-way staircases that are escape hatches leading pre-determined destinations, thus preventing {stair dancing}. A returning one-way staircase can be found nearby (but out of LOS) of each staircase's destination.
20:05:01 <Sequell> tomb[1/4]: Accessed from the Crypt on the third level. Three levels deep, with a golden rune at the bottom. In 0.20, Tomb has its stairs replaced with one-way staircases that are escape hatches leading pre-determined destinations, thus preventing {stair dancing}. A returning one-way staircase can be found nearby (but out of LOS) of each staircase's destination.
20:05:10 <gammafunk> ??tomb[2
20:05:10 <Sequell> tomb[2/4]: Need to go down to go up to go down. You can avoid this by random teleporting around on Tomb:2 until you land in the correct region.
20:05:57 <gammafunk> Floodkiller: not sure if writing up your ideas somewhere (e.g. on the Doku wiki) first would be helpful or not
20:06:23 <gammafunk> but it might be a good idea to get some kind of feedback on your full ideas before you start coding
20:06:33 <Floodkiller> yeah, I planned on it
20:06:38 <gammafunk> cool
20:06:44 <Floodkiller> notes/brainstorming isn't quite finished yet though
20:27:44 <gammafunk> !lm cao cv=0.20 x=vlong
20:27:44 <Sequell> No milestones for cao (cv=0.20).
20:27:44 <gammafunk> !lg * cao cv=0.20 x=vlong
20:27:44 <Sequell> 42648. [vlong=0.20.0-15-g7f486f2] Phibes the Grave Robber (L1 MuNe), slain by a jackal on D:1 (mainiacjoe_arrival_reflecting_pool) on 2017-07-10 00:27:22, with 1 point after 65 turns and 0:01:23.
20:27:58 <gammafunk> johnstein: for some reason, cao seems to also have not updated to 0.20.1, can you look into that?
20:28:34 <gammafunk> |amethyst: pinging you as well, if you have time to check
20:44:24 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  running now (and I modified the update script that runs nightly)
20:51:12 <gammafunk> awesome, thanks
21:24:15 -!- mngr__ is now known as daiy
22:09:40 <johnstein> |amethyst, what was the problem?
22:09:58 <|amethyst> johnstein:  it was never added to ~crawl-dev/bin/do-update
22:10:09 <|amethyst> johnstein:  (which is what gets run from the crontab)
22:10:54 <johnstein> doh
22:21:12 <gammafunk> I was watching a TV and saw an old version of my vault
22:24:50 <gammafunk> I always love reading the cwz trunk summaries through google translate
22:24:59 <gammafunk> * Bulk bolt fixes.
22:25:03 <gammafunk> # All gammafunk works. Too many, so omit.
22:25:31 <gammafunk> I think it was asciiphilia who explained to me once that the words "vault" and "bolt" are the same in Korean
22:26:06 <gammafunk> so that leads to a lot of cwz players making jokes along those lines
22:26:53 <gammafunk> heh
22:27:20 <gammafunk> checkers: cwz player ranting about your vault change: What? Are you going to die mana fast and angered dragon? ㅋㅋ
22:27:43 <gammafunk> I think they're saying you're crazy since people will die to mana drain + zerked dragons
22:41:31 <nikheizen> the korean metagame is incomprehensible
23:21:48 <checkers> gammafunk: that is indeed the point
23:26:33 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir
23:30:07 <gammafunk> you'll have to explain that to them
23:30:43 <gammafunk> recommend you type a response into google translate and post
23:30:46 <gammafunk> what could go wrong?
23:40:20 <amalloy> gammafunk: it's probably also convenient that the best korean spelling for gammafunk is gammapunk. good source of jokes
23:44:14 <minmay> google translate one of my dcss related dreams imo
23:49:49 <nikheizen> call yourself checkers-san and post in mangled japanese
23:49:52 <nikheizen> that'll show 'em
23:54:53 <gammafunk> amalloy: nice try "ah"-malloy, but ascii told me they already have a special name for me
23:55:10 <gammafunk> it's like....gamfunk...or something
23:58:05 <gammafunk> besides it looks like they're leaving my name untranslated
23:58:09 <gammafunk> # 전부 gammafunk 작품. 너무 많으므로 생략.