00:31:47 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.21-a0-46-gdf2c162 (34)
01:39:11 <alexjurkiewicz> < minmay> why do clouds of translocational energy block LOS <-- haven't you played bioshock infinite
01:58:10 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-46-gdf2c162
02:13:09 <minmay> I haven't, no
02:17:24 <alexjurkiewicz> translocational energy = portal to another dimension
02:18:41 <koboldina> hm
02:18:43 <koboldina> I think I found a bug
02:18:54 <koboldina> if hellfire demonspawn uses hellfire just to reach the targeting portion of it, you can fail
02:19:08 <koboldina> like before you even tell it to actually complete the action
02:19:22 <koboldina> so you can't use it to see line of sight targeting etc without risking failure
02:19:51 <minmay> yeah, 'a'bilities still have that problem
02:19:56 <minmay> spells used to, but there was a big refactor to fix it
02:54:31 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.21-a0-46-gdf2c162
03:25:49 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.21-a0-46-gdf2c162 (34)
06:56:30 <miserium> FYI - Nightly android build failed last night: https://pastebin.com/raw/iUh1k7eh
06:58:36 <gammafunk> hrm
07:00:17 <gammafunk> oh ok, I see advil made a recent lua commit
07:00:24 <gammafunk> let me see if I can recreate the problem
07:14:14 <gammafunk> oh
07:14:32 <gammafunk> miserium: I think the android build might need to know about something build-related
07:15:11 <gammafunk> there's a new l-wiz.cc
07:16:49 <gammafunk> maybe Android.mk
07:17:39 <gammafunk> ah, yes
07:17:40 <gammafunk> that's it
07:20:44 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07* 0.21-a0-47-g7c8f537: Fix the Android build 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7c8f5373d83d
07:21:36 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07[stone_soup-0.20] * 0.20.0-11-g0ad0579: Fix the Android build 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0ad0579abcba
07:21:46 <gammafunk> miserium: can you try incorporating that commit?
08:09:41 <Jorgrell> Stable (0.20) branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20.0-11-g0ad0579
08:19:01 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.21-a0-47-g7c8f537 (34)
09:43:51 <advil> oh thanks
09:44:04 <advil> hmm, I don't think I cherry-picked that to 0.20 yet so that might break
09:47:12 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.20] * 0.20.0-12-ge5dfdd2: Fix up restoration/sustab innate muts on load 10(22 hours ago, 1 file, 26+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e5dfdd2dc555
09:47:12 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.20] * 0.20.0-13-g018d8e7: Fix NOWIZARD builds 10(20 hours ago, 5 files, 34+ 29-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/018d8e7ad123
09:47:12 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[stone_soup-0.20] * 0.20.0-14-g326068f: Extremely basic lua bindings for fsim 10(20 hours ago, 8 files, 114+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/326068fda8ad
09:48:25 <gammafunk> doh
09:48:27 <gammafunk> thanks
09:48:40 <advil> heh np
09:48:52 <advil> it's the cycle of bugs
09:48:52 <gammafunk> kind of surprised travis didn't fail the build on stable
09:49:05 <advil> yeah, but I guess that android file never is touched by travis
09:49:17 <gammafunk> hrm, that's true, it would only fail on an android build
10:11:52 <Jorgrell> Stable (0.20) branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20.0-14-g326068f
12:15:06 <cut1less> i think the viable species/background button on the new game character creator (that is, the "+" button) doesn't work as intended
12:15:30 <cut1less> i'm getting combos like HuSk, SpNe, TeNe, which aren't viable in either direction
12:16:31 <cut1less> the # button, for viable character, actually works as intended (viable in at least one way), but not the + button
12:18:15 <cut1less> i know i should probably make a mantis issue, but i'm actually not sure if i messed something up in the code somewhere or not (playing offline)
12:26:18 <advil> yeah, I can replicate that
12:27:26 <advil> can you file a mantis issue?
12:28:31 <cut1less> yep, i'll get on it
12:53:50 <Cheibriados> Viable species/background option ("+" key) returning random species/backgrounds 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11092 by cut1less
13:26:06 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.21-a0-47-g7c8f537 (34)
14:49:50 <gammafunk> =nemelex TeIE
14:49:53 <Sequell> Defined keyword: nchoice => DEAM|DDAK|HOCj|BaEn|FoEn|MiVM|HaIE|VSEE|FeNe|GhWz|CeFE|SpTm|MuAM|TeWr|VpSk|KoAE|GrSu|OgEE|BaHu|MfCj|VpFE|DEAs|HOSu|BaAr|HaAE|FoWz|TeIE
15:03:57 <Lantell> Stable (0.20) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.20.0-14-g326068f
15:24:54 <asdu> I'm having a problem with a game online, not sure if it's a bug or if I've messed up my settings somehow
15:25:35 <asdu> I'm playing on terminal and I see all glyphs dark blue as though they were all out of LoS
15:25:47 <asdu> it looks fine on webtiles though
16:09:25 <johnny0> asdu_: which terminal are you using?
16:26:30 <asdu_> johnny0: putty
16:32:34 <johnny0> hmm, putty generally works fine for me -- have you done everything in putty[$]?
16:32:42 <johnny0> ??putty[$
16:32:43 <Sequell> putty[5/5]: Lost darkgrey and want it back?  In your PuTTY session, make sure 'Window->Colours->Allow terminal to use xterm 256-colour mode' is checked and set 'Connection->Data->Terminal-type' to putty-256color.  In your crawl rc, add 'allow_extended_colours=true' (no quotes).
16:49:11 <johnny0> asdu_: better yet, does a *fresh* putty profile with just the server info work as expected?
16:49:43 <asdu_> i'm gonna try, but it's only happening in my current 0.20 game
16:49:58 <asdu_> if i load a game from another version it looks alright
16:56:18 <johnny0> yeah that doesn't sound so good...
16:56:51 <asdu_> and yes, i tried on a fresh profile and it's still all blue
16:57:39 <asdu_> btw, what's the setting for the blue out of LoS glyphs?
16:58:58 <johnny0> there isn't one to configure *just* that (yet) -- it's that darkgrey-on-black is being rendered as blue-on-black as a failsafe
16:59:18 <asdu_> ah, i see
16:59:38 <asdu_> i remember reading about that, now that you mention it
17:00:47 <johnny0> !lg asdu tiles=false cv=0.20 -ttyrec
17:00:49 <Sequell> 32. asdu, XL12 GrEE, T:12540: http://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/ttyrec/asdu/2017-06-01.23:45:35.ttyrec.bz2
17:01:42 <asdu_> it happened at login btw
17:02:10 <johnny0> asdu_: at the dgamelaunch menu or the crawl species/background select?
17:02:12 <asdu_> i think i logged back after the connection was dropped
17:02:28 <asdu_> no, i was logging into a saved game
17:02:54 <asdu_> it's only the viewport btw
17:03:02 <asdu_> menus etc are ok
17:03:22 <asdu_> not even the viewport, only terrain glyphs
17:03:43 <asdu_> monsters/items etc also ok
17:04:51 <johnny0> !lm asdu tiles=false cv=0.20 -ttyrec
17:04:52 <Sequell> 305. asdu, XL24 DESu, T:81478 (milestone): http://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/ttyrec/asdu/2017-06-07.18:10:26.ttyrec
17:06:43 <johnny0> asdu_: okay, i'm seeing it -- yeah that's not good
17:06:57 <asdu_> :(
17:07:56 <johnny0> asdu_: oh... is it only on this pandemonium floor?
17:08:15 <asdu_> hmm, i havn't tried to exit it, tbh
17:08:19 <asdu_> :P
17:08:35 <asdu_> it happened on this first, yes
17:09:32 <asdu_> well, that fixes it, i guess :D
17:09:35 <johnny0> ahh, blue walls and blue floor maybe... hmm
17:09:46 <asdu_> jesus i feel dumb
17:09:51 <asdu_> could be
17:10:12 <asdu_> i entered the floor in the vault
17:10:32 <asdu_> so i saw the stone walls first
17:11:21 <asdu_> console and tiles colors don't match, i guess
17:11:51 <asdu_> well, thanks
17:11:53 <johnny0> asdu_: don't feel dumb -- this highlights a problem with blue as the failsafe
17:12:22 <johnny0> gah
17:13:23 <amalloy> doesn't gloorx have a blue floor?
17:13:48 <amalloy> or rather, i'm pretty sure his pan level has a blue theme
17:14:37 <johnny0> amalloy: i think so
17:15:13 <amalloy> going to pan and pressing &d``````` is an interesting experience
17:15:58 <amalloy> yeah, just found gloorx's place and tiles look the same whether they're in view or not
17:24:00 <johnny0> asdu_: in the meantime, making sure crawl knows it's safe to use darkgrey-on-black should help with that situation (via ??putty[$], for example)
17:29:49 -!- illusion is now known as Guest71483
18:03:15 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.21-a0-47-g7c8f537 (34)
18:41:35 <Lasty> !lm * sif verb=champion x=avg(turns)
18:41:36 <Sequell> No milestones for * (sif verb=champion).
18:42:15 <Lasty> !lm * sif verb=championed x=avg(turns) v>0.19
18:42:16 <Sequell> No milestones for * (sif verb=championed v>0.19).
18:44:00 <Lasty> ??sequell
18:44:01 <Sequell> sequell[1/4]: The ##crawl bot, handling game statistics, the {learndb}, and more. Operated by greensnark. See http://github.com/crawl/sequell/blob/master/docs/listgame.md  If you want the source, go here: http://github.com/crawl/sequell
18:44:40 <Lasty> !lm * sif type=god.champion  x=avg(turns) v>0.19
18:44:41 <Sequell> No milestones for * (sif type=god.champion v>0.19).
18:46:13 <Lasty> anyone know how to query for the champion milestone? I'm trying to see how easy it is to champion Sif. Even with an amulet of faith and a pretty fast char I'm finding it really challenging
18:56:40 <Lasty> ??verbs
18:56:41 <Sequell> I don't have a page labeled verbs in my learndb.
18:57:51 <gammafunk> !lm * sif t god.maxpiety
18:59:18 <Lasty> gammafunk: do you newsif much? If so, where do you usually reach max piety?
18:59:20 <Sequell> 74. [2017-06-07 16:00:44] rchandra the Eclecticist (L16 DECj of Sif Muna) became the Champion of Sif Muna on turn 39902. (Elf:1)
18:59:50 <Lasty> !lm * sif type=god.maxpiety  x=avg(turns) v>0.19
19:00:10 <gammafunk> it is fairly late, yeah
19:00:55 <gammafunk> I don't particularly look to become champ outside of the tournament though
19:01:18 <amalloy> !kw champion
19:01:19 <Sequell> Keyword: champion => god.maxpiety
19:01:22 <Sequell> 90s limit exceeded: killed !lm * sif type=god.maxpiety  x=avg(turns) v>0.19
19:01:44 <Lasty> gammafunk: what makes it so slow? I've got 2/3 of my xp going into magic skills, I'm moving fast, and I've got amulet of faith. It's still insanely slow to gain piety, and I've had a lot of turns where I get "Sif gives you credit for your kill. x3 You lose ability foo." because I lose piety so much faster than I gain it.
19:01:47 <amalloy> Lasty: ^ how you could find out if gammafunk weren't here with his encyclopedic sif knowledge
19:02:06 <Lasty> amalloy: haha
19:02:06 <Lasty> !lm * sif type=god.maxpiety  x=avg(turns) v>0.19
19:02:32 <advil> I had a good query for this somewhere
19:02:54 <Sequell> 480 milestones for * (sif type=god.maxpiety v>0.19): avg(turn)=51207.33
19:03:05 <advil> !lm * type=god.maxpiety noun='sif muna' s=cv x=avg(absdepth) -graph
19:03:37 <Lasty> holy crap, average is turn 51207???
19:03:52 <Lasty> !lm * ash type=god.maxpiety  x=avg(turns) v>0.19
19:04:20 <Sequell> 21997 milestones for * (type=god.maxpiety noun='sif muna'): https://shalott.org/graphs/338e4fd66f4a763a875ee85b1e68591326b67c8a.html
19:04:21 <advil> sequell seems to be struggling these days
19:04:28 <Sequell> 1419 milestones for * (ash type=god.maxpiety v>0.19): avg(turn)=27472.5
19:04:44 <Doesnty> sif piety stalls hard at 5* piety
19:04:48 <Doesnty> because if you are on gift time-out
19:04:55 <Doesnty> most of your piety goes to reducing that instead of the piety pile
19:05:02 <Doesnty> and sif gives books at 5* now
19:05:07 <advil> !lm * type=god.maxpiety noun='sif muna' s=cv x=avg(turn) -graph
19:05:42 <Sequell> 21997 milestones for * (type=god.maxpiety noun='sif muna'): https://shalott.org/graphs/88ba5de814a6ae632338b54d5e2767ca9c8337b0.html
19:06:03 <Doesnty> also magic users in general tend to 5 a lot
19:07:17 <Doesnty> unless you are carrying an actively using a sidearm
19:07:17 <Lasty> I'm using a vamp laja :p
19:08:40 -!- Guest71483 is now known as illusion-
19:11:31 <Lasty> Doesnty: any advice on how to force a Sif 6*? Tabbing through Orc didn't do much of anything.
19:11:37 <Doesnty> get lucky
19:11:46 <Doesnty> wear faith
19:11:48 <Doesnty> do extended
19:12:04 <Doesnty> i brought this to the dev's attention and they told me the problem doesn't exist and if it did it wouldn't need fixing anyway
19:12:10 <Doesnty> back when neosif was introduced
19:12:56 <Doesnty> i say do extended because it gives you more time and thus more rolling of the
19:13:00 <Doesnty> erratic piety dice
19:13:02 <advil> heh I think the specific response (naming no names) was that maybe piety gain for all other gods should be scaled back to where sif sits now :-P
19:13:26 <Doesnty> yeah that came up
19:13:34 <Doesnty> i was specifically told it isn't hard to get 6* piety with newsif though
19:13:57 <Doesnty> "play aggressively"
19:14:48 <Lasty> IMO it's fine to have gods give piety slowly, but if 6* piety is worth a lot of tournament points (and it is) then it needs to be achievable through aggressive play if not normal play.
19:14:54 <Doesnty> i wouldn't mind if piety in general was scaled down but there's not much you can really do
19:14:56 <Lasty> right now it doesn't feel at all achievable.
19:14:58 <Doesnty> to influence piety gain
19:15:04 <Doesnty> so it's kind of dumb
19:15:30 <Lasty> the other solution of course is just to change the tourney rules
19:15:34 <Doesnty> like yes you can play fast but there are combos that cannot move quickly without dying
19:15:40 <Lasty> so you get credit for championing a god if you end the game with a god
19:15:50 <Doesnty> i suggested that too
19:15:50 <Lasty> er -- win the game with a god
19:15:52 <Doesnty> but it didn't happen
19:16:00 <Doesnty> for this tournament specifically, even
19:24:05 <minmay> !log . sif
19:24:09 <Sequell> 284. minmay, XL27 OpEE, T:88683: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/minmay/morgue-minmay-20170528-180315.txt
19:24:36 <minmay> 21981 | Lair:6   | Reached ****** piety under Sif Muna
19:24:38 <minmay> seems fine to me
19:26:05 <Doesnty> !log . sif
19:26:06 <Sequell> 10. Doesnt, XL27 OpCj, T:118629: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/Doesnt/morgue-Doesnt-20170603-030547.txt
19:26:14 <Doesnty> 116518 | Zot:5    | Reached ****** piety under Sif Muna
19:26:54 <gammafunk> !lm * sif god.maxpiety s=br
19:26:59 <gammafunk> !lm * t sif god.maxpiety s=br
19:27:46 <gammafunk> 74 milestones for * (sif t god.maxpiety): 14x Vaults, 10x D, 10x Depths, 7x Elf, 6x Zot, 5x Spider, 5x Snake, 4x Swamp, 4x Lair, 3x Shoals, 2x Orc, 2x
19:27:49 <gammafunk> Slime, Desolation, Abyss
19:28:02 <Sequell> 21997 milestones for * (sif god.maxpiety): 10519x Lair, 9270x D, 737x Orc, 313x IceCv, 161x Vaults, 119x Lab, 114x Swamp, 98x Spider, 96x Volcano, 94x Snake, 87x Elf, 77x Depths, 74x Bailey, 72x Shoals, 35x Zot, 27x Crypt, 26x Hive, 15x Abyss, 12x Tomb, 10x Pan, 9x Slime, 8x Zig, 3x Tar, 3x Temple, 3x Coc, 3x Ossuary, 2x Desolation, 2x Geh, 2x Dis, 2x Bazaar, 2x WizLab, Hell, Blade
19:28:02 <Sequell> 74 milestones for * (t sif god.maxpiety): 14x Vaults, 10x D, 10x Depths, 7x Elf, 6x Zot, 5x Spider, 5x Snake, 4x Swamp, 4x Lair, 3x Shoals, 2x Orc, 2x Slime, Desolation, Abyss
19:28:02 <gammafunk> anyhow you're hardly forced to go into extended
19:28:08 <Doesnty> 116518 | Zot:5    | Reached ****** piety under Sif Muna
19:28:10 <Doesnty> wat
19:28:23 <gammafunk> and the reason I didn't change it was based on elliptic's feedback that
19:28:34 <gammafunk> <elliptic> well, the current system is set up so that players can change gods if they want and still get points
19:28:42 <gammafunk> <elliptic> I think there would be more complaints about that than there currently are about having to make sure they get 6*
19:28:55 <minmay> Doesnty: you trained fighting and shields, very hard to get ****** if you put any xp in non-spell skills
19:30:18 <Doesnty> so did your octopode?
19:30:19 <minmay> starting worship early and not resting is also important
19:30:39 <minmay> Doesnty: only after reaching ******
19:30:52 <minmay> also orc is a terrible place to get sif piety because it has no xp
19:31:55 <minmay> like I guess there's a clarity problem, ever since getting piety for kills (why) it isn't clear how important it is to train magic skills, and most players probably don't know piety decay even exists
19:32:37 <Doesnty> it isn't just piety decay that's the problem
19:32:46 <Doesnty> it's the massive penalty you take for being on gift time-out
19:33:13 <Doesnty> 75% of your piety goes to reducing that
19:33:24 <minmay> not really, oka and trog have the same penalty starting at *** and nobody has trouble reaching ****** with trog
19:34:14 <Doesnty> oka and trog give piety more readily
19:34:22 <Doesnty> and aren't really relevant
19:34:42 <elliptic> <Lasty> IMO it's fine to have gods give piety slowly, but if 6* piety is worth a lot of tournament points (and it is)
19:35:06 <elliptic> Lasty: it's worth something like 35 points for you, hardly "a lot"
19:35:08 <minmay> <Doesnty> oka and trog give piety more readily
19:35:11 <minmay> literally my exact point
19:35:31 <elliptic> (only 10 if you don't win your game, though you probably will of course)
19:35:42 <gammafunk> it's Lasty, please don't assume that!
19:37:47 <gammafunk> but yeah, jokes aside, it's probably better that one or two gods has a bit of a harder time getting points compared to penalizing games for most of the other ogds
19:37:50 <gammafunk> *gods
19:38:12 <gammafunk> I'm not sure if there's a new tournament rule that could be used which would be better
19:38:30 <elliptic> (it does sound like it might be a little too hard to get ****** sif piety, but I don't think that discussion should have anything to do with tourney)
19:38:33 <Doesnty> you get god points if you hit 6* with the god and it's your first god, or if you win the game with the god and it's your first god
19:38:43 <Doesnty> what problems does this create
19:39:24 <elliptic> going atheist and joining a god on orbrun, though that probably isn't a big deal
19:39:37 <amalloy> elliptic: if Ne^Zin is scoring well...
19:39:43 <Doesnty> being atheist is harder than most gods
19:39:47 <elliptic> Doesnty: yeah
19:39:50 <Lasty> elliptic: well, in normal game play, getting ****** sif piety doesn't matter at all
19:39:52 <Doesnty> the one exception is xom who already permits that..
19:40:00 <Lasty> being at *****. forever would be just fine
19:40:20 <Doesnty> i dunno
19:40:26 <Lasty> I thought our current Xom scoring required starting under Xom
19:40:28 <Doesnty> it gives the player the impression there's meaningful gain to be had
19:40:35 <Doesnty> which could push them to faith when they don't actually need it
19:40:47 <minmay> miscast protection isn't guaranteed until 160 piety so there is a reason to want ****** with sif
19:40:57 <Lasty> minmay: ah, ok
19:41:08 <elliptic> Lasty: it used to iirc but it was sort of weird to require CK
19:41:14 <Lasty> minmay: so it looks like you're saying training magic 100% works okay for getting 6*?
19:41:19 <minmay> shoutouts to the writer of sif_muna[2] who apparently does not know piety decay exists
19:41:28 <Doesnty> sif used to not have any i think?
19:41:33 <elliptic> ??sif muna[2]
19:41:34 <Sequell> sif muna[2/5]: If for some reason you take Sif Muna with no spells. It takes until Spellcasting ~12 (at average [-1] spellcasting apt) to get your first book, for a Monk (free ** piety) and until ~15 for other backgrounds.
19:41:34 <minmay> Lasty: yes, as long as you don't rest much
19:41:35 <Doesnty> decay got changed at some point
19:41:54 <elliptic> that entry is much newer than sif getting piety decay
19:41:56 <Doesnty> nvm sif always had some
19:42:02 <Lasty> Maybe the best way to put what I'm saying is this: as a player in the tournament who isn't very spoiled re: currentsif or tournament scoring, currentsif is a very frustrating experience.
19:42:06 <elliptic> also yeah it always had tiny decay
19:42:24 <minmay> yeah the clarity side of it is very bad
19:43:00 <Doesnty> would putting sif on straight exploration piety be a problem
19:43:01 <elliptic> anyway Doesnty's proposal for god scoring is probably fine, but I don't think it matters that much one way or the other and there is some value in not making the rules more complicated
19:43:34 <minmay> easiest bandage is to just increase sif piety gain, since sif isn't a strong god anyway
19:44:42 <elliptic> even if we changed the "win with god" rules I would still keep the flat 10 points for ****** (or remove it altogether) rather than hacking in something to give those points for wins that never reached ******
19:45:09 <Doesnty> i would favor changing sif in general
19:45:17 <elliptic> since that really sounds like unnecessary complication
19:45:24 <Doesnty> to not give the false impression that you can reach 6* without turning off fighting
19:45:30 <Doesnty> in a reasonable timeframe
19:45:41 <elliptic> but yeah I do think that in general gods should reach 6* with "normal" play
19:46:03 <elliptic> so if some decent fraction of sif games are never reaching 6* then that is probably not ideal
19:46:44 <Lasty> elliptic: agreed
19:46:52 <gammafunk> I don't think just increasing sif piety gain would be great, since you'd probably get to 5* really fast, but I suppose it's more important when you reach 1* and 3*
19:47:06 <Doesnty> pushing gifts back to 6* would be a nerf to a weak god but it would clean that up
19:47:12 <elliptic> it's okay if it is slow though I think, as long as the vast majority of games get it by L20 or so
19:47:37 <elliptic> Veh used to be nearly that slow and it seemed fine
19:47:58 <Lasty> yeah, I'm not so much concerned about the speed of gain as whether it is net gain over normal play
19:48:13 <Doesnty> that's the other frustrating thing
19:48:20 <Doesnty> you can't tell if you're actually moving up
19:48:29 <Doesnty> because all you see is 5*
19:48:51 <elliptic> well, ideally players could just assume that they were moving up
19:49:05 <amalloy> i just looked at !rg * t sif won -log, and the first game was https://webzook.net/soup/morgue/0.20/asonge/morgue-asonge-20170529-160807.txt, reaching max piety on turn 71k
19:49:07 <elliptic> in almost all reasonable situations where they aren't actively spending piety on something with a god
19:49:33 <Doesnty> i've seen it dip to 4* before without touching channel
19:49:40 <minmay> <gammafunk> I don't think just increasing sif piety gain would be great, since you'd probably get to 5* really fast, but I suppose it's more important when you reach 1* and 3*
19:49:41 <minmay> <Doesnty> pushing gifts back to 6* would be a nerf to a weak god but it would clean that up
19:49:46 <minmay> it sounds like gift timeout shouldn't interfere with piety gain then
19:49:47 <amalloy> another on 51k, another on 89k
19:50:54 <minmay> although if you change that you also want to nerf brothers in arms probably
19:51:01 <gammafunk> what are you attempting to show? I think it's certainly true that you can play in various ways so that you'll not reach 6* for some time
19:51:21 <Doesnty> oh
19:51:24 <Doesnty> i didn't realize that
19:55:25 <amalloy> i wasn't attempting to show anything. there was some discussion in channel about whether t games were beingwon with sif without ever getting to 6*, or that it was taking too long. i looked at a few games to collect data. of 5 winning sif games i looked at, all of them had reached 6* at some point, and all of them except minmay's reached it quite late
19:56:26 <gammafunk> well my query above showed people reaching max piety in orc, lair branches etc
19:56:47 <gammafunk> you're looking at turncount specifically, which is probably not the best metric
19:57:43 <amalloy> !lm * t sif won god.maxpiety s=xl
19:57:46 <Sequell> 37 milestones for * (t sif won god.maxpiety): 4x 20, 4x 18, 4x 17, 4x 27, 4x 16, 3x 22, 3x 15, 2x 21, 2x 19, 2x 14, 2x 23, 2x 26, 25
19:58:47 <Doesnty> !lg * t sif won
19:58:48 <Sequell> 38. chukamok the Sorcerer (L27 MuIE of Sif Muna), escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2017-06-07 07:29:32, with 1785528 points after 140788 turns and 19:16:16.
19:58:56 <Doesnty> somebody didn't hit 6*
19:59:18 <elliptic> !lm * t won god.worship=sif s=xl
19:59:19 <Sequell> 41 milestones for * (t won god.worship=sif): 16x 8, 7x 9, 6x 5, 3x 6, 3x 7, 2x 10, 2x 3, 4, 27
19:59:49 <elliptic> 4 people worshipped sif and won without hitting maxpiety, though some of them might have been abandoning sif early for penance for that banner I guess
20:00:12 <elliptic> !lm * t won god.worship=sif / xl>20
20:00:14 <Sequell> 1/41 milestones for * (t won god.worship=sif): N=1/41 (2.44%)
20:00:16 <elliptic> er
20:00:22 <elliptic> !lm * t won god.maxpiety=sif / xl>20
20:00:23 <Sequell> 14/37 milestones for * (t won god.maxpiety=sif): N=14/37 (37.84%)
20:01:02 <elliptic> seems late but not entirely unreasonable, might just need a minor tweak
20:01:30 <gammafunk> yeah
20:01:44 <Doesnty> !lg * sif t won -log 21
20:01:46 <Sequell> 21/38. penus, XL27 GrWz, T:122794: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/penus/morgue-penus-20170602-132103.txt
20:01:56 <Doesnty> they overused channel it looks like
20:02:11 <gammafunk> they also don't count because I banned their gross tournament name
20:02:17 <Doesnty> yeah that's fair
20:02:39 <amalloy> that is an amazing amount of channel usage
20:03:12 <gammafunk> &dump
20:03:13 <Doesnty> i thought 30 uses might be too many
20:03:14 <Sequell> http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/gammafunk/gammafunk.txt
20:03:43 <gammafunk> 22 and I love every one of them
20:03:47 <gammafunk> *loved
20:04:24 <Doesnty> wait it was 30 divine energy toggles
20:04:30 <Doesnty> i used channel only 15 times
20:04:51 <Doesnty> (i try to avoid leaving divine energy on)
20:04:59 <gammafunk> I am going to have to remember to reach 6* in depths
20:05:14 <Lasty> gammafunk: you'll be pleased to know I found a way to die: chaos spawn summon made a titanic slime invis; I didn't notice, and it hit me for 98 damage when I was lightly wounded. Splat.
20:05:29 <gammafunk> wow, where have all our heros gone?
20:05:31 <Doesnty> rip
20:05:49 <gammafunk> Lasty: next time please die in one of my vaults, if you can
20:06:05 <gammafunk> if you do I'll plug your board games/card games on my stream
20:06:57 <Lasty> lol
20:07:11 <Lasty> What a deal!
20:25:36 <ProzacElf> in retrospect, my pre-tourney comments about sif piety were wrong
20:25:45 <ProzacElf> because it is really hard to hit 6*
20:26:01 <ProzacElf> without faith and a complete disregard for living
21:43:34 <minmay> real sif users toggle divine energy once, three experience levels after getting it, and never invoke anything again
22:09:48 <gammafunk> !lg devteamnp newsif sif won s=name
22:09:49 <Sequell> 11 games for devteamnp (newsif sif won): 6x gammafunk, 2x itsmu, PleasingFungus, Lasty, elliptic
22:09:57 <gammafunk> to all those that doubted my devotion
22:10:55 <Lasty> gammafunk: I never doubted your devotion, just your wisdom
22:11:03 <gammafunk> note the lack of amalloy!
22:11:26 <gammafunk> Lasty: I'll have you know that I pump INT and am very wise
22:11:46 -!- Shard1697_ is now known as Shard1697
22:17:11 <gammafunk> Lasty: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/161963307517870080/322197246365925376/unknown.png
22:22:30 <Lasty> lol
22:22:46 <Lasty> Maybe it wouldn't notice breathing poison vapors that don't affect it anyway
22:26:30 <koboldina> where would I find the tile images for the weapons as they appear in the hand of the sprites, such as your player sprite or an orc/tengu/human/whatever sprite? I looked here but it appears to just be the tiles you see on the ground: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/master/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/item
22:28:32 <koboldina> nvm, have found
22:28:37 <gammafunk> koboldina: yeah https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/master/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/player/hand1
22:28:45 <gammafunk> which you probably just found
22:28:48 <koboldina> yes
22:28:49 <koboldina> thank you though!
22:28:57 <koboldina> am putting weapons in the hands of orcs for sticker purposes
22:29:04 <gammafunk> np, I'm here to be redundant
22:31:17 <minmay> gammafunk: tell ultraviolent4 that casting poisonous vapours on the demonic crawler wouldn't wake it up, since the spell makes no noise at the destination and harmless clouds don't wake up monsters
22:31:34 <gammafunk> will do
22:47:49 <koboldina> is there like
22:47:59 <koboldina> an easy way to spawn an orc holding a particular weapon in wizmode
22:49:14 <Doesnty> i think you can give them items
22:49:15 <Doesnty> with x
22:49:28 <Doesnty> press ? in the x menu and it'll show the extra wizmode commands
22:52:43 <koboldina> that works thanks
22:57:33 <gammafunk> koboldina: you can also use the same syntax as for des when creating the monster
22:57:40 <gammafunk> but the x thing is nice for just a one-off instance
23:13:27 <koboldina> !tv .
23:13:29 <Sequell> 1061. koboldina, XL18 TrCj, T:42824 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org.
23:13:31 <minmay> !vault hive_lemuel
23:13:32 <koboldina> whoops ignore that
23:13:32 <Sequell> 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/mini_monsters.des#L121
23:13:46 <minmay> should this have no_tele_into, a player could get stuck in it with no tele or dig
23:16:41 <ProzacElf> oh
23:16:45 <ProzacElf> wow
23:17:00 <ProzacElf> that would be bad to get stuck in
23:17:12 <minmay> !lm . shaft -tv:<0.2
23:17:13 <Sequell> 444. minmay, XL12 HuTm, T:19583 (milestone) requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org.
23:17:25 <ProzacElf> on the plus side, any player without tele or dig is probably already dead if they land in that one
23:19:27 <ProzacElf> minmay:  do you think there should be a warning if using stairs would kill you from poison?
23:32:07 <alexjurkiewicz> why shouldn't there
23:41:30 <Doesnty> you don't get warned if a horizontal step would kill you from poison
23:43:46 <elliptic> or if any other action would kill you
23:43:58 <elliptic> I don't see what is special about stairs
23:46:23 <gammafunk> koboldina: how does this make you feel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bJQYjszArk&feature=youtu.be
23:59:36 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.21-a0-47-g7c8f537 (34)