00:00:04 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-1124-g2e29d97 (34)
00:28:43 <Palyth> is there a way to see why a map wont load without running from code?
00:35:05 <gammafunk> how do you mean running from code?
00:35:31 <gammafunk> if there's a parsing error, crawl prints messages to stdout if you run it from a console
00:36:01 <Palyth> what i meant by running from code, would be via visual studio.
00:36:22 <gammafunk> well I'm not sure in what context you're loading the map
00:36:54 <gammafunk> are you trying to place the map in wizmode? by simply entering a level where the map is always selected (maybe because you changed map weight)
00:37:11 <Palyth> no, i mean when the game is loading all the maps when you start up
00:37:19 <Palyth> i didnt realize the console spit out to stdout
00:37:24 <Palyth> i will try loading from console
00:37:27 <gammafunk> yeah, so that's a problem with parsing the map
00:37:43 <Palyth> yeah, it "looks" right, but i will what the parsing error is
00:37:46 <gammafunk> and yeah you'll see messages on your console
01:07:55 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
01:10:25 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
01:11:14 <Palyth> i remember seeing a page with instruction on how to submit vault patches, i cannot seem to find it any more. Anyone remember where it is off the top of your head?
01:19:31 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1124-g2e29d97 (34)
01:53:01 <gammafunk> Palyth: the best way is through a github pull request
01:53:30 <gammafunk> otherwise make a bug report on mantis and upload the vault file in your bug report
01:53:41 <gammafunk> if you do go with the mantis approach and know which file your vault should go in, please indicate that
01:53:49 <gammafunk> if you use a PR you will have to put the vault in yourself
01:54:14 <gammafunk> ??mantis
01:54:14 <Sequell> mantis[1/2]: To report bugs or submit new content like vaults, patches or tiles, go to: http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/main_page.php
01:54:59 <gammafunk> register and make a bug report with the category Upload: Maps and Vaults, if you're going that mantis route
02:00:06 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1124-g2e29d97
02:30:22 <nikheizen> a fragile amulet of harm will prompt you twice to remove
02:30:39 <nikheizen> possibly vampiric fragile arts do this as well
02:40:07 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
02:53:11 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1124-g2e29d97
03:14:00 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1124-g2e29d97 (34)
03:30:13 -!- Rjs- is now known as Rjs
06:17:10 -!- Fixer_ is now known as Fixer
07:56:41 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
08:42:49 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
12:42:10 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
12:59:11 <minmay> j
13:05:23 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1124-g2e29d97 (34)
13:32:14 <koboldina> gnolls are still getting updated to having 7-7-7 stats, right?
15:06:01 <Cheibriados> Fixed-position summons fail with an uninformative message when cast on a teleport/shaft trap 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11059 by neil
15:06:12 <|amethyst> what's the Mantis tag for "this would be a good thing for new contributors to try fixing"?
15:07:51 <|amethyst> I guess "newbie friendly" sounds good
15:08:00 <|amethyst> also, filtering by tag doesn't seem to work?
15:08:36 <|amethyst> I get the full list of bugs when I try
17:09:21 -!- jeefus is now known as jefus
18:04:51 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.20-a0-1124-g2e29d97 (34)
18:21:13 <|amethyst> so, < 2 weeks to feature freeze, then about a week to T?
18:21:15 <|amethyst> ??t
18:21:15 <Sequell> tournament[1/6]: The 0.19 tournament ran from 20:00 UTC Friday 4 Nov 2016 to 20:00 UTC Sunday 20 Nov 2016. Tournament home page: http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.19/
18:21:46 <|amethyst> we should embark upon a bug-squashing expedition
18:21:51 <|amethyst> I'll see what I can do
18:26:56 <amalloy> nerfing Fo would squash bugs
18:48:05 <Doesnty> / Don't generate monsters on top of teleport traps.
18:48:12 <Doesnty> // (How did they get there?)
18:48:29 <Doesnty> gj comment writer
18:49:08 <Doesnty> i think this is actually a simple fix though
18:50:32 <Doesnty> it looks like it's flat impossible for anything to generate over a shaft?
18:51:26 <|amethyst> Doesnty:  that sounds reasonable... submit a patch and be famous!
18:51:53 <Doesnty> will do once i figure out the best way to write this
18:51:59 <Doesnty> i see the obvious hack solution
18:52:32 <Doesnty> can_place_on_trap in mon-place.cc should be a little more open
18:54:47 <|amethyst> Doesnty:  I'd commit it
18:57:44 <|amethyst> Doesnty:  PR that shit, yo
19:17:46 <Doesnty> i assume it's preferable for spires and prisms to not interact with traps at all, correct?
19:17:56 <Doesnty> since, in a world where prisms summoned over shafts immediately fell down them
19:18:06 <Doesnty> it'd still be optimal to cast prism over every tile to dodge shafts
19:18:28 <|amethyst> either, it should be allowed to place them on those traps
19:20:01 <|amethyst> or, (A) it should abort the spell (without spending MP or the turn) if the trap is known, and (B) fail with a message (preferably the same message as (A)) if the trap is not known
19:20:32 <|amethyst> s/\(A\) it should/it should (A)/
19:20:53 <Doesnty> the former is two lines
19:21:04 <|amethyst> magnificent
19:21:09 <|amethyst> patches welcome!
19:26:59 <Doesnty> alright
19:30:08 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/536 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/536
19:30:08 <Cheibriados> 03Doesnt02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/536 * 0.20-a0-1123-g94a7c03: Allow Fulminant Prism and Lightning Spire to be cast on traps. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/94a7c0333e5e
19:46:01 -!- yesno__ is now known as yesno
20:31:08 <gammafunk> MarvinPA: have you looked at the gnoll PR by any chance? I could either go for a feature freeze this friday with the earlier T date of 26th, or do the feature freeze on the 26th, T week after that
20:31:18 <gammafunk> the only major thing I can think of that would matter would be that PR
20:31:25 <gammafunk> in terms of merging it and play-testing
20:31:38 <nikheizen> ??gnoll pr
20:31:38 <Sequell> nikheizen: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
20:31:38 <Sequell> I don't have a page labeled gnoll_pr in my learndb.
20:31:47 <nikheizen> !messages
20:31:48 <Sequell> (1/2) bcadren said (14h 15m 17s ago): the Scarf Base types are: rCloud, rC+, rF+ rC+, RMsl; Artifact ones can have any additional property that a normal artifact ring can (rElec, STR+X, Stealth+, etc.); then a cloak (which is same slot) has 1 base AC, up to 2 enchantment AC and possible brands of rPois, MR+ and +Invis (and again can have randArts).
20:31:53 <nikheizen> oh no
20:32:03 <gammafunk> but if you strongly feel that Gn should remain disabled for the release regardless of the PR, then there's no need to plan around that
20:32:20 <nikheizen> !messages
20:32:20 <Sequell> (1/1) bcadren said (14h 15m 19s ago): I was only saying that the rCloud scarf is probably low tier for most characters; compared to Resistance, {MR+ AC+3}, etc.
20:32:23 <gammafunk> I was thinking of trying to merge that very soon if the implementation is reasonable
20:33:17 <MarvinPA> it seems like a more reasonable base idea at a glance but i think it should definitely remain disabled for 0.20 either way
20:33:53 <MarvinPA> 0.21*
20:33:59 <MarvinPA> uh
20:34:07 <MarvinPA> whatever the number is
20:34:42 <nikheizen> the next release will be 0.20
20:35:26 <gammafunk> obviously just skip to 1.0
20:35:36 <nikheizen> or 2.0
20:40:45 <nikheizen> that PR is trash
20:41:48 <nikheizen> you have a +3 apt in every skill, a triple crossbow at 27 xbows in vaults is still a triple crossbow at 27 xbows in vaults despite your shitty str/dex
20:46:50 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
20:47:17 <Lightli> nikheizen: that's because ranged combat is really overpowered
20:48:55 <nikheizen> so dont go ranged combat
20:49:01 <nikheizen> get 27 invocations with fedhas
20:49:18 <nikheizen> get 27 invocations with fedhas
20:49:21 <nikheizen> oops
20:49:34 <nikheizen> any strong option you find can be immediately swapped to
20:50:14 <nikheizen> it's less hitting the generalist goal, and more hitting the short attention span flavour goal
20:50:36 <nikheizen> of course this is all fine if you want to give up on them being generalists
21:04:13 <gammafunk> Well, that's more of a problem with Fedhas than anything, but the shrooms are eventually not strong enough to clear levels
21:04:17 <gammafunk> and you only have so much fruit
21:04:25 <alexjurkiewicz> someone tested this!
21:04:57 <gammafunk> tested what?
21:08:12 <nikheizen> i mean i can keep throwing out examples of things that are strong and you can keep saying that this is more a problem with that thing being strong
21:10:09 <gammafunk> I don't think listing a bunch of strong things would be relevant
21:13:46 <sedition> how does everyone decide on balance? is it observing players and taking feedback or what?
21:14:02 <Floodkiller> I would also recommend against enabling gnolls for 0.20 even if the PR gets merged; two weeks isn't enough time to test it out
21:16:38 <gammafunk> a lot of decisions about balance are made before anything is comitted, since you can figure out a lot of that ahead of time based on knowledge of the game
21:16:53 <nikheizen> sedition: it's all decided by candlelight while wearing robes in the super secret dev irc and mailing list
21:17:12 <sedition> i knew it was blood sacrifice
21:17:16 <sedition> its always blood sacrifice
21:17:39 <gammafunk> player feedback is important, but no we don't balance by just watching what players do
21:18:15 <sedition> i figured there was a feedback process, i just wasnt sure how it worked
21:18:18 <sedition> thanks all. :)
21:18:26 <gammafunk> many devs have been playing for a really long time so we have a strong understanding of the game
21:24:08 <Cheibriados> Swamp entry vault 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11061 by Palyth
21:24:08 <Cheibriados> Stone intersection mini_features vault. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11060 by Palyth
21:24:33 <gammafunk> one report ends with a period
21:24:35 <gammafunk> the other does not
21:24:44 <gammafunk> .....user banned for life
21:25:39 <gammafunk> nice, a full patch
21:25:46 <gammafunk> ban rescinded
21:25:49 <sedition> are there noobfriendly bugs to fix? I'd love to get involved. I spend most of my days writing Go or doing pentests though. I sorta know enough C to get by
21:26:35 <gammafunk> well crawl is C++ specifically, but...I want to say there was some kind of list at one point
21:26:45 <sedition> oh. that might be easier on my lizard brain tbh
21:26:52 <Floodkiller> search by minor/trivial and you should get some easy fixes
21:27:00 * sedition nods
21:27:03 <sedition> thanks Floodkiller
21:27:22 <gammafunk> ok, so sounds like the plan is to freature freeze this friday
21:27:33 <gammafunk> I'll try to send out a message to crd and make a post some time tonight
21:27:45 <gammafunk> I need to finish up my vault work sooner rather than later
21:27:51 <Floodkiller> should, because sometimes a super trivial thing hasn't been fixed because it's a web of pain and misery to figure out how to untangle it
21:28:07 <gammafunk> yeah, probably in the end you might have to simply look through the list of newly reported bugs
21:28:16 <sedition> that's fine. software is like that.
21:28:28 <sedition> im typically only bugsquashing my own stuff but id like to help and get my toes wet
21:36:32 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
21:53:03 <advil> feature freeze this friday sounds good (though I won't be around much until next week)
21:55:13 <ProzacElf> i thought feature freeze already happened?
21:55:13 <advil> no
21:56:12 <advil> it was either this friday or next friday
21:56:16 <ProzacElf> well, in that case i hope that someone continues to fuck up gnolls
21:56:24 <ProzacElf> so that they can't be included
21:56:35 <advil> it doesn't seem like gnolls will be in 0.20
21:56:37 <advil> random question, do we have any sort of contributor code of conduct?
21:57:14 <advil> doesn't seem like it
21:57:36 <ProzacElf> what do you mean by contributor?
21:58:01 <ProzacElf> i mean, i have zero or less influence
21:59:35 <ProzacElf> but i did once convince dracoomega to fix hexes.  and gammafunk has told me that i'm stupid a good 20 times =p
21:59:48 <advil> well most projects that have something like that it seems to be oriented at anyone who participates in official project communications, whatever those might be
22:00:05 <advil> (if it wasn't clear that question was aimed at the channel, not you specifically :-)
22:00:24 <ProzacElf> lol, i know, i was just trying to horn my way in
22:04:01 <advil> sedition: looking at mantis is a pretty good way to find potentially fixable bugs.  Here's one that looks interesting: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11056
22:04:17 <advil> one problem though is that it's not very easy to predict what will be a simple bug to fix
22:06:41 * sedition nods
22:06:47 <sedition> i need to spend time with the source
22:07:40 <advil> I'd start with ones that look easy to reproduce
22:54:30 <gammafunk> !readall reserved_clannames
22:54:37 <gammafunk> !readall reserved_clan_names
22:54:38 <Sequell> Quiescent Sporulation [who do you think?] / HashtagStupidRemove2016 [Lasty] / Chaos Triplesword Zerked The Emperor Scorpion [PleasingFungus] / Charms Reform Gestapo [gammafunk] / Physical Recharging Gland (wheals) / Ectoplasmic Revolution [PleasingFungus] / Five Oh Tab Rhythm [PleasingFungus] / Purple Drain by Prince Ribbit and The Evolution [gammafunk (WIP)] / Fish for Cheap Surges [gammafunk] / ...
22:54:59 <gammafunk> !learn del reserved_clan_names[2]
22:54:59 <Sequell> Deleted reserved clan names[2/25]: HashtagStupidRemove2016 [Lasty]
22:55:02 <gammafunk> no longer topical
22:55:23 <gammafunk> !learn del reserved_clan_names[3]
22:55:23 <Sequell> Deleted reserved clan names[3/24]: Charms Reform Gestapo [gammafunk]
22:55:32 <gammafunk> maybe for a future release
22:56:22 <gammafunk> I think flavor drones from the thirst hive is the clear winner
22:56:27 <gammafunk> we don't need to have a poll
22:57:23 -!- test is now known as Guest15621
23:00:11 <koboldina> gammafunk
23:00:19 <gammafunk> koboldina
23:00:22 <gammafunk> we meet again, for the last time
23:00:34 <koboldina> I'll sneak up to you and put one of these stickers on your face
23:00:35 <koboldina> it'll say
23:00:36 <koboldina> "STUPID REMOVE"
23:00:51 <gammafunk> WINSCUMMING4LYFE
23:01:00 <koboldina> lol winscumming
23:01:18 <koboldina> I forget who it was that went on like a 20 minute rant about all the things that were winscumming
23:01:19 <koboldina> but it was gr8
23:01:20 <koboldina> I think it was mibe
23:02:01 <gammafunk> lol, not mibe
23:02:14 <koboldina> well I mean he was making fun of the idea of winscumming, whoever it was
23:02:17 <koboldina> not the original guy who made it up
23:02:20 <gammafunk> oh yeah
23:02:34 <gammafunk> that sounds like something mibe might do
23:02:34 <koboldina> I think he ended it with
23:02:34 <koboldina> "winning? that's winscumming"
23:02:47 <gammafunk> losing is winning
23:02:54 <gammafunk> winning is winscumming
23:03:48 <koboldina> tbh I like the phrase because it sheds light on how silly the word 'scumming' is when used as like
23:03:56 <koboldina> a pejorative you attach to some kind of play that you don't like
23:04:02 <hellmonk> wins cumming
23:04:07 <koboldina> "you're not playing this game ***correctly***" etc
23:05:12 <CanOfWorms> we can say one thing for sure: koboldina is definitely not playing the game correctly
23:05:18 <gammafunk> ^
23:05:26 <koboldina> !learn add koboldina <+CanOfWorms> we can say one thing for sure: koboldina is definitely not playing the game correctly
23:05:27 <Sequell> koboldina[3/3]: <+CanOfWorms> we can say one thing for sure: koboldina is definitely not playing the game correctly
23:05:34 <gammafunk> not at all developer indtended imo
23:05:39 <CanOfWorms> I forget which character it was that you played and picked up haunt before lair branch
23:05:42 <gammafunk> *intended
23:05:55 <koboldina> don't make me cast invis + yaras on enemies again gammafunk
23:06:17 <CanOfWorms> powerful tech......
23:06:46 <koboldina> btw are gnolls still getting set to 7-7-7?
23:07:44 <CanOfWorms> the pull hasn't been merged yet
23:07:58 <CanOfWorms> but that's how it's standing currently
23:07:59 <hellmonk> does summon forest on D:8 count as not developer intended
23:08:05 <hellmonk> bc I have done that
23:08:16 <koboldina> summon forest is only l5
23:08:21 <CanOfWorms> I've probably done that
23:08:25 <hellmonk> yeah but it's endgame
23:08:31 <hellmonk> as in, I cast it in zot all the time
23:09:00 <gammafunk> I cast regen all the time in Zot as well, and it's l3
23:09:03 <gammafunk> and animate dead is L4
23:09:05 <koboldina> I wish malign gateway was so common
23:09:09 <CanOfWorms> and animate skelly
23:09:16 <koboldina> I made a little  shrine in my house to curse the devs the day they took it out of book of the warp
23:09:18 <hellmonk> yeah, i agree that all of those spells are also op
23:09:18 <CanOfWorms> and blink
23:09:38 <hellmonk> list of non-overpowered ally spells:
23:09:53 <gammafunk> a single cast of shadow c can do way more damage than the forest for pretty similar xp investment
23:10:19 <hellmonk> you can just cast both though
23:10:46 <gammafunk> hellcrawl needs to lead the way
23:10:50 <gammafunk> and remove the summoning school
23:11:16 <gammafunk> or maybe rework it to have far fewer spells that aren't so strong, I guess
23:11:42 <hellmonk> yeah
23:11:48 <hellmonk> agree re: the second part of that
23:12:02 <CanOfWorms> wow, hellcrawl will still have allies?!
23:12:11 <hellmonk> seriously, are there any ally spells that aren't good
23:12:24 <gammafunk> g. golem isn't that good
23:12:30 <hellmonk> good point
23:12:37 <gammafunk> I mean, it's possible to use in various ways, but comparatively
23:12:42 <gammafunk> it doesn't directly do damage
23:12:55 <gammafunk> also abjuration and recall aren't really all that strong
23:12:55 <CanOfWorms> watch ultraviolent solo zot:5 with guardian golem and proclaim it as his new favorite spell, above lightning spire
23:13:15 <hellmonk> abj and recall don't make allies, but I'll count them on a technicality
23:13:17 <gammafunk> well again I doubt he was soloing it with that spell
23:13:26 <gammafunk> in any real sense of that word
23:13:36 <hellmonk> lightning spire is really good though, tbh
23:13:41 <gammafunk> you have to have allies for the thing to heal, otherwise it's just an immolation factory
23:14:05 <gammafunk> oh you were joking/speaking theoretically, my bad
23:14:08 <CanOfWorms> does it actually heal? I thought it just took damage
23:14:19 <gammafunk> it takes damage that they would have taken, yeah
23:14:32 <gammafunk> so it's not a heal, however you could certainly think of it that way
23:15:14 <gammafunk> remember forceful dismissal?
23:15:23 <gammafunk> that was a silly one
23:15:31 <CanOfWorms> I think it's in 0.15, which I have on this computer
23:15:44 <gammafunk> people were using that with things like haunt
23:15:47 <gammafunk> for smite targeted damage
23:15:54 <gammafunk> mostly extended hijinks
23:16:04 <CanOfWorms> nice
23:16:12 <hellmonk> I never cast that
23:16:24 <hellmonk> maybe I should try to do a dupz summoner in 0.15
23:16:30 <gammafunk> it was in that great group of commits that dracoomega made
23:16:37 <koboldina> D U P Z
23:16:38 <gammafunk> where he nearly single-handedly reformed the school
23:16:51 <hellmonk> musu of sif, the dupz legend
23:17:05 <gammafunk> at the time 1kb was making a branch to remove the school, since 1kb really hated summons generally
23:17:11 <gammafunk> his branch also removed monster summons
23:17:43 <gammafunk> then the big fallout happened wrt Forest/forest dispersal and both ended up leaving
23:18:06 <gammafunk> which is sad, but they're probably both happier doing other things now
23:36:55 <alexjurkiewicz> ??implementables
23:36:55 <Sequell> implementables[1/1]: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/search.php?project_id=1&category=Implementables&status_id%5B%5D=10&status_id%5B%5D=20&status_id%5B%5D=30&status_id%5B%5D=40&sticky_issues=on&sortby=last_updated&dir=DESC&highlight_changed=12&hide_status_id=-2
23:37:23 <alexjurkiewicz> sedition: this list was created with the goal of holding bugs that are easy to fix
23:39:10 <sedition> alexjurkiewicz: thank you