00:00:00 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-1117-g62da73f (34)
00:07:16 <hellmonk> !tell johnstein can I get a hellcrawl update please?
00:07:17 <Sequell> hellmonk: OK, I'll let johnstein know.
00:49:06 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
01:38:57 <alexjurkiewicz> !crash *
01:38:59 <Sequell> 17263. PublicChat, XL1 TrCK, T:1 (milestone): https://webzook.net/soup/morgue/0.19/PublicChat/crash-PublicChat-20170508-200001.txt
01:39:24 <alexjurkiewicz> !crash * trunk
01:39:34 <alexjurkiewicz> !crash
01:40:35 <alexjurkiewicz> rip Sequell
01:40:54 <Sequell> 90s limit exceeded: killed !crash * trunk
01:40:56 <Sequell> 17263. PublicChat, XL1 TrCK, T:1 (milestone): https://webzook.net/soup/morgue/0.19/PublicChat/crash-PublicChat-20170508-200001.txt
01:42:36 <alexjurkiewicz> !crash !cwz
01:42:43 <Sequell> 17263. PublicChat, XL1 TrCK, T:1 (milestone): https://webzook.net/soup/morgue/0.19/PublicChat/crash-PublicChat-20170508-200001.txt
01:44:37 <alexjurkiewicz> !lg publicchat x=src
01:44:39 <Sequell> No games for publicchat.
01:44:46 <alexjurkiewicz> !lg PublicChat
01:44:47 <Sequell> No games for PublicChat.
01:57:43 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
03:13:54 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1117-g62da73f (34)
05:38:24 -!- pantaril_ is now known as pantaril
09:15:37 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest4013
09:26:16 <advil> I can't get a shock serpent to bite itself
09:26:19 <advil> is there some trick to that?
09:27:50 <advil> oh there we go
09:27:53 <advil> has to be next to you
09:30:16 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
09:35:00 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.20-a0-1118-g35a2cd3: Don't let shock serpent self-retaliate when confused (nikheizen) 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/35a2cd32de45
09:35:41 <advil> you could probably still get this recursion going with multiple confused shock serpents
10:09:30 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-1118-g35a2cd3 (34)
10:55:02 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
11:58:37 <Doesnty> wow, a shock serpent buff...
13:05:41 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1118-g35a2cd3 (34)
16:16:13 -!- kogasa is now known as Doesnty
17:20:23 <gammafunk> MarvinPA_: I hadn't heard too much disagreement about disabling Wu for the release, is that still the best plan in your view?
17:21:17 <MarvinPA_> i think so yeah, i was meaning to go ahead and do it at some point (and gnolls too)
17:21:52 <MarvinPA_> but if someone else does it first i won't complain, been busy-ish recently
17:22:09 <gammafunk> ok
17:22:22 <gammafunk> I'm not actually sure how we do that effeciently
17:22:41 <MarvinPA_> it's easy enough for species, could look up the commits that did it for LO probably
17:22:47 <MarvinPA_> i think it's a horribly hacky mess for gods unfortunately
17:23:11 -!- UnknownUser is now known as unknownuser
17:23:25 <gammafunk> I'll start with Wu then
17:23:47 <MarvinPA_> there's a gozag commmit by PF i think that did the same thing
17:24:02 <MarvinPA_> and involved editing literally every temple vault or something
17:24:15 <MarvinPA_> perhaps there's a neater way
17:24:30 <gammafunk> I was going to look at Pak
17:24:35 <gammafunk> maybe that wasn't the same thing
17:24:44 <MarvinPA_> ah yeah, not sure
17:25:27 <gammafunk> %git e213fbe9c83
17:25:27 <Cheibriados> 07MarvinPA02 * 0.19-a0-1173-ge213fbe: Disable Pakellas 10(10 months ago, 14 files, 58+ 227-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e213fbe9c834
17:25:45 <gammafunk> MarvinPA of the past, help us!!!
17:26:14 <gammafunk> doesn't look to bad, I'll start with this
17:27:10 <MarvinPA_> ah, that disabled it entirely rather than just making it trunk-only
17:27:17 <gammafunk> oh, right
17:27:31 <MarvinPA_> which i guess is fine if the commit is only in the 0.20 branch
17:27:33 <gammafunk> we're ok with it being trunk-only? (blah blah features in trunk)
17:28:43 <MarvinPA_> i think so
17:38:45 <gammafunk> interesting, wu never got added to some vaults
17:38:50 <gammafunk> *altar vaults
18:04:35 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.20-a0-1118-g35a2cd3 (34)
18:07:45 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest85229
18:28:29 <minmay> who wants vaults
19:04:39 <Cheibriados> Reduce noise for Qazlal worshipers in corridors where no storms are made. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11055 by Euph0ria
19:25:37 <dpeg> I think I encountered a bug where "Bloodlust does not work if uncursed. Anyone ever seen something like this, or should I test in wizmode?
19:28:39 -!- droogie_ is now known as droogie
19:30:08 <dpeg> okay, okay, confirmation bias
19:30:10 <dpeg> works alright
20:02:00 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07* 0.20-a0-1119-ge512d5f: Make more room in an abyss altar vault 10(61 minutes ago, 1 file, 13+ 12-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e512d5f5851f
20:02:00 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07* 0.20-a0-1120-gd9b63d7: Refactor a disabled god check function 10(60 minutes ago, 1 file, 16+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d9b63d7ea478
20:02:00 <Cheibriados> 03gammafunk02 07* 0.20-a0-1121-gbb42413: Disable Wu Jian in stable 10(53 minutes ago, 9 files, 23+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bb42413abe91
20:02:19 <gammafunk> I'll get to gnolls in a bit
20:14:03 <Lightli> we're this close to release?
20:14:46 <gammafunk> how close is this close?
20:15:14 <advil> 2 chokos
20:15:29 <Lightli> i.e. close enough that stuff is being specifically disabled for stable
20:15:30 <gammafunk> mfw snozzcucumbers aren't the fruit pip
20:15:54 <Lightli> also, regarding the "scuttle god and merge into uskayaw" thing, what would be kept out of WJC
20:16:16 <gammafunk> Well we're obviously close enough for things being disabled in stable
20:16:20 <gammafunk> since that's literally what happened
20:16:39 <Lightli> yeha
20:16:51 <Lightli> I thought release wouldn't be for another 2 months or so
20:16:53 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest32423
20:16:56 <gammafunk> but it's a necessary thing to happen for wu since there's consensus that the good needs significant work
20:17:03 <advil> we're actually behind schedule relative to the norm
20:17:54 <Lightli> oh
20:18:08 <advil> to the extent there is a norm
20:18:17 <gammafunk> yeah, we have done longer delays with releases in the past
20:18:42 <gammafunk> and should keep that option open if we feel we need it, but there are certainly a bunch of new features/content this release without wu/gnolls
20:19:01 <gammafunk> I think 0.17 was a really sparse release
20:19:08 <gammafunk> ??changelog
20:19:09 <Sequell> changelog[1/3]: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt - often incomplete and/or out of date, see {changelog[3]} for an exhaustive list of changes.
20:19:26 <gammafunk> sparse is a weird word to describe a release with, but oh well
20:19:54 <gammafunk> yeah, 0.17's highlights were just squarelos, shorter branches, more rune vaults
20:20:34 <gammafunk> wow ecu altars were in the same release as moonbase
20:20:44 <gammafunk> I'd thought those were more recent, guess I forgot
20:21:29 <Lightli> don't forget ctele removal
20:21:36 <gammafunk> that's not a highlight
20:21:51 <gammafunk> by highlight I mean actually mentioned as such in the changelog
20:22:14 <gammafunk> the actual list of features is much longer than the list of highlights, and certainly some not listed there are pretty signficant
20:22:26 <gammafunk> just not really "wow, look at this new release content!"
20:22:56 <gammafunk> We have a bunch of good highlights for this release
20:23:03 <gammafunk> but haven't written them yet
20:23:18 <gammafunk> although I like our current highlight of "* :)"
20:24:04 <Lightli> oh
20:33:24 <alexjurkiewicz> advil: sad about 35a2cd3, it was a funny little easter egg!
20:34:19 <alexjurkiewicz> re: wu jian, I feel the god by now is at least as baked as Pakellas was, and is it bad to include a god for one stable release?
20:34:19 <advil> hey, you can still do it with two confused shock serpents, just get one to attack the other and they should both freak out :)
20:34:24 <alexjurkiewicz> :)
20:34:38 <advil> actually probably only one needs to be confused
20:35:59 <advil> alexjurkiewicz: I had that feeling as well but then I saw the half-finished PR that hadn't been merged right before steelneuron stopped working on it altogether
20:37:10 <advil> I do actually think it plays ok right now
20:38:22 <gammafunk> well I think people have some specific plans for Wu, which at the time of pakellas' release, there weren't any, and also people probably don't want to use Pak as a model
20:38:31 <gammafunk> given the current state of Pak
20:39:00 <gammafunk> it's entirely possible that the Wu-Usk merge will happen before the feature freeze anyhow
20:39:00 <Lightli> I don't even know where you would start trying to fix Pak at this point
20:39:38 <advil> I have to say the idea of a wu usk merge doesn't sound great to me :)
20:39:56 <advil> is someone actively working on that?
20:40:05 <gammafunk> Lasty was looking into it
20:40:08 <gammafunk> what don't you like about it?
20:40:36 <advil> it seems like it would have either too much going on, or not enough from each current god
20:40:55 <advil> plus I don't see how the wjc mechanisms really fit with the usk piety stuff
20:41:13 <gammafunk> Well I don't think the proposal was simply a whole-sale merge of all abilities
20:41:52 <gammafunk> As far as wjc mechanisms fitting usk, whirlwind basically works just fine for usk, as does lunge
20:42:06 <gammafunk> I think lasty was entertaining the idea of removing line pass
20:42:18 <advil> yeah, I didn't get that
20:42:31 <advil> perhaps it is just me but line pass is _the_ most characteristic usk thing
20:42:53 <gammafunk> it's the ability I tended to use the least
20:45:35 <advil> I do think a god with whirlwind, lunge, (walljump?), (line pass?) solo, pain bond, and telefrag would be *fun*
20:45:40 <advil> just doesn't seem very cohesive
20:46:04 <advil> whereas right now usk does feel like a cohesive package (but perhaps lasty feels differently)
20:46:21 <gammafunk> I probably don't know how you mean cohesive
20:46:30 <gammafunk> is this a thematic thing, like in terms of dance?
20:48:01 <advil> a set of abilities that all seem to fit together into a coherent package both gameplay-wise and thematically
20:48:43 <gammafunk> well for gameplay I think they're fine at a basic level
20:49:05 <gammafunk> usk wants you to move into combat situations, lunge, whirlwind certainly do this and work with usk's piety
20:49:08 <gammafunk> <Lasty> I think there are things that could make the god better, but I think it probably makes the most sense to merge lunge and whirlwind into Usk, because you'd have reasons to use them even if they give no bonus damage/effects
20:49:12 <gammafunk> <gammafunk> interesting ideas, would lunge really make much sense for usk?
20:49:13 <gammafunk> what lasty said about the merge
20:49:16 <gammafunk> <gammafunk> I guess I can see whirlwind...well you get multihit even regardless of piety gain
20:49:19 <gammafunk> <Lasty> definitely -- anything that combines movement with damage
20:49:52 <gammafunk> but usk is about taking risks and moving into combat (hence it's a "limit break" god with its variable piety system)
20:50:34 <advil> I'm not sure in my wjc experiences that whirlwind and lunge are very risky
20:50:35 <gammafunk> so movement-damage stuff is the general idea; the passives and capstone function to reward that piety gain at higher and higher levels of piety
20:50:48 <advil> whereas line pass is risky in an interesting way
20:51:21 <gammafunk> well lunge requires you to move adjacent to a monster, and whirlwird requres you to move adjacent to several monsters
20:51:45 <gammafunk> taking risk isn't implying "maximal risk" I think, since piety gains can be fairly small for a single action
20:51:55 <advil> whirlwind only needs one monster to trigger
20:52:06 <gammafunk> Lasty may wish to keep line pass, not sure
20:52:29 <gammafunk> it needs multiple monsters to be a better means of gaining piety compared to just hitting the monster
20:52:48 <gammafunk> as far as lunge goes you may have a point there
20:53:00 <advil> I guess I was thinking of it as removing penalties for certain kinds of repositioning at melee range
20:53:54 <advil> oh I see, you mean they'd be good for increasing piety
20:53:54 <advil> that seems true
20:54:04 <advil> I hadn't thought about that side of
20:54:05 <advil> it
20:54:10 <gammafunk> yeah, that's what I mean by them functioning at a basic level gameplay wise
20:54:31 <advil> I was just thinking about the fact that they are always on
20:54:36 <advil> so not consuming piety
20:54:58 <gammafunk> yeah it may take some consideration to keep new-usk balanced piety gain wise, or perhaps balanced in terms of damage
20:56:57 <advil> maybe keeping line jump instead of wall jump would be one way
20:57:15 <advil> the UI is a lot better for line jump, that's been the continuing issue with wall jump
20:57:20 <advil> er
20:57:21 <advil> line pass
21:01:42 <gammafunk> I don't see that lasty mentioned removing line pass, so he probably wasn't even planning on that
21:06:32 <gammafunk> !cmd .bubble !lg * kmap~~gammafunk_the_bubble
21:06:33 <Sequell> Defined command: .bubble => !lg * kmap~~gammafunk_the_bubble
21:09:26 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-1121-gbb42413 (34)
21:13:27 <Lasty> gammafunk, advil: I was not planning on removing line pass. I agree w/ advil that it's unique, works well in the package, and can encourage high-risk maneuvers in a way that I like.
21:13:27 <Sequell> Lasty: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
21:13:42 <Lasty> I was thinking of just having whirlwind/lunge replace Stomp at *
21:14:12 <Lasty> I wasn't planning to bring over wall jump, which has been problematic
21:14:37 <Lasty> and after playing with wall jump I'm fairly convinced it's not a good experience from a UI perspective
21:14:46 <Lasty> *after playing with it recently that is
21:16:19 <Lasty> On the other hand, I'm not certain that wall jump can't work in some other form, like perhaps the PR that SteelNeuron put together.
21:16:41 <Lasty> but I know others didn't think that approach would work
21:18:14 <Lasty> As far as Usk goes, I think Stomp is the weakest (gameplaywise) part of the package
21:34:42 <gammafunk> what about a giant sky laser
21:35:08 <gammafunk> just speaking in general about those, aren't they cool?
21:37:31 <minmay> a giant sky laser (sofly glowing)
21:38:52 <gammafunk> hrm, yeah, maybe I should make a robot-themed dcss fork
21:49:03 <ProzacElf> robo-crawl: sky lasers
21:56:28 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest87129
22:40:25 <alexjurkiewicz> !crash -100
22:40:26 <Sequell> No milestones for -100 (crash).
22:41:56 <alexjurkiewicz> hm
22:42:01 <alexjurkiewicz> !log * crash -100
22:42:02 <Sequell> No keyword 'crash'
22:42:09 <alexjurkiewicz> !lm * crash -log -100
22:42:14 <Sequell> 17166/17265. PublicControlBot, XL19 DrIE, T:64037 (milestone): https://webzook.net/soup/morgue/trunk/PublicControlBot/crash-PublicControlBot-20170422-200001.txt
22:42:24 <alexjurkiewicz> !lm * crash -log -100 name!=PublicControlBot
22:42:39 <Sequell> 17124/17223. KimchiChoi, XL8 MiBe, T:5857 (milestone): https://webzook.net/soup/morgue/trunk/KimchiChoi/crash-KimchiChoi-20170420-200001.txt
22:44:00 <alexjurkiewicz> !lm * crash -log 1
22:44:07 <Sequell> 1/17265. MUMMY, XL13 VpTm, T:42450 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/MUMMY/crash-MUMMY-20100602-233348.txt
22:45:55 <alexjurkiewicz> i wonder if that's all crashes
23:00:57 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest76465