00:00:00 and of course pain 00:00:08 would still use that haste with kiku tbh 00:00:37 go fast, hit things with pain, raise zombie 00:05:14 -!- PoopieFace is now known as Bcadren 01:19:32 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1089-g3fde505 (34) 01:58:37 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1089-g3fde505 02:52:46 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1089-g3fde505 04:03:05 When casting ensorcelled hibernation, the monster is alerted before being affected 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11050 by Barberik 04:03:20 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 04:28:27 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 09:05:44 johlstei 09:06:08 mistype;; 09:40:51 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 10:24:08 -!- Medra is now known as Medar 11:51:43 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 14:25:20 should wanderer really be a suggested background for gnolls 14:28:44 like yes they're good at everything but wanderer is perfectly capable of just emulating any of the standard backgrounds that are not suggested 14:41:20 that trog altar vault with the moth is a ridiculous trap now that worms can berserk 14:42:39 why are so many overflow altar vaults designed specifically to kill you the first time you see them anyway (charred statue, flame clouds...) 15:07:21 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 15:20:02 aren't they still slower than you while berserk 15:29:28 @??worm 15:29:28 worm (04w) | Spd: 6 | HD: 4 | HP: 15-21 | AC/EV: 1/5 | Dam: 12 | regen | Res: 06magic(10) | XP: 5 | Sz: small | Int: animal. 15:29:39 slightly 15:29:44 <|amethyst> @??worm perm_ench:berserk 15:29:44 worm (04w) | Spd: 9 | HD: 4 | HP: 23-32 | AC/EV: 1/5 | Dam: 18 | regen | Res: 06magic(10) | XP: 5 | Sz: small | Int: animal. 15:29:51 but they do so much damage 15:31:09 probably less of a noob trap than 3 doors :P 15:31:12 !cmd .3d 15:31:13 No command .3d 15:31:15 hmm 15:33:22 yeah that one is bad too 15:51:48 so, obviously I've mentioned this before, but I really think it is unfortunate that piety gain scales wtih XL as long as species have different XL apts 16:06:15 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 18:09:12 -!- jefus- is now known as jefus 18:11:03 !apt ko 18:11:04 Ko: Fighting: 1, Short: 3!, Long: -2, Axes: -2, Maces: -1, Polearms: -2, Staves: -1, Slings: 0, Bows: 0, Xbows: 2!, Throw: 1!, Armour: -2, Dodge: 2, Stealth: 4, Shields: -2, UC: 0, Splcast: 0, Conj: 0, Hexes: 0, Charms: -2, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 0, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: 0, Earth: 0, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 2, Exp: 1!, HP: -2, MP: 0 18:11:05 !apt ha 18:11:05 Ha: Fighting: -1, Short: 2, Long: 0, Axes: 0, Maces: -1, Polearms: -1, Staves: -2, Slings: 4!, Bows: 1, Xbows: 1, Throw: 0, Armour: 1, Dodge: 1, Stealth: 2, Shields: 1, UC: -2*, Splcast: -3, Conj: -2, Hexes: -2, Charms: 1, Summ: -2, Nec: -2, Tloc: 1, Tmut: -4*, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: 0, Earth: 0, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 0, Exp: 1!, HP: -1, MP: 0 18:37:04 gammafunk: i have a new tavern threeeeeeeeeeead 18:39:31 oh god 18:41:55 hrm 18:41:57 !apt ha 18:41:57 Ha: Fighting: -1, Short: 2, Long: 0, Axes: 0, Maces: -1, Polearms: -1, Staves: -2, Slings: 4!, Bows: 1, Xbows: 1, Throw: 0, Armour: 1, Dodge: 1, Stealth: 2, Shields: 1, UC: -2*, Splcast: -3, Conj: -2, Hexes: -2, Charms: 1, Summ: -2, Nec: -2, Tloc: 1, Tmut: -4*, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: 0, Earth: 0, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 0, Exp: 1!, HP: -1, MP: 0 18:42:00 weird 18:45:13 -!- user` is now known as code 19:03:39 gammafunk: Just because they're small doesn't make them weird! 19:04:20 fr: remove the word "half" from everything like how we removed "giant" 19:04:35 right, it's because they were supposed to be better at fighting than kobolds, and then weren't, that makes them weird 19:04:37 =p 19:04:52 !apt ko 19:04:53 Ko: Fighting: 1, Short: 3!, Long: -2, Axes: -2, Maces: -1, Polearms: -2, Staves: -1, Slings: 0, Bows: 0, Xbows: 2!, Throw: 1!, Armour: -2, Dodge: 2, Stealth: 4, Shields: -2, UC: 0, Splcast: 0, Conj: 0, Hexes: 0, Charms: -2, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 0, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: 0, Earth: 0, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 2, Exp: 1!, HP: -2, MP: 0 19:05:02 ko do have a better fighting apt, it's true 19:05:03 gammafunk: I look forward to playing Lings 19:05:10 but I'd much rather play a melee char with Ha 19:05:29 ha have more hp anyhow 19:05:37 lol 19:05:42 Ha has significantly better defenses 19:05:42 i'm probably biased 19:05:46 that too 19:05:48 since i won a ck with ko 19:06:07 sounds like someone needs to become a HaCK 19:06:15 lol 19:06:15 You mean a LiCK 19:06:21 hrm... 19:06:21 !lg . hack 19:06:22 46. ProzacElf the Cudgeler (L6 HaCK of Xom), succumbed to an orc's poison on D:3 on 2017-01-30 02:42:35, with 192 points after 2863 turns and 0:05:21. 19:06:24 Lich species? 19:06:25 !lg. kock 19:06:32 They're NOT mummies 19:06:33 gammafunk: Lings! weren't you paying attention? 19:06:41 right, Lichlings? 19:07:03 lichified boggarts, or something 19:07:12 oh, i can't see how many times i did that? 19:07:52 gammafunk: They have a native ability to cast shadow creatures 19:08:00 On an XP timer! That causes drain! 19:08:01 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Joei28eIYKE 19:08:22 ProzacElf: you just typed it wrong 19:08:41 lol 19:08:43 oops 19:08:48 !lg . kock 19:08:49 9. ProzacElf the Slayer (L27 KoCK of Xom), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2017-02-01 07:58:32, with 1692317 points after 70111 turns and 3:53:01. 19:08:55 haha 19:09:08 that's a fair number of kocks 19:09:08 !lg . kock 19:09:08 2. Lasty the Spry (L21 KoCK of Xom), blown up by a lich (kmap: dpeg_vaults_pockets_of_resistance) on Vaults:2 on 2014-09-09 22:13:50, with 269570 points after 61604 turns and 4:24:06. 19:09:08 right. kobold, way better than halfling 19:09:17 the other day, amalloy_ was trying to get me to learn the HaSkell programming language 19:09:30 gammafunk: it's okay to tattle on bullies 19:10:22 Lasty: btw, we need to kind of poll how we all feel about the various things in trunk that are sort of up in the air 19:10:27 the big two are Wu and Gn 19:11:15 gammafunk: IIRC there's still a Wu pull request that hasn't been merged, but should be 19:11:24 hrm 19:11:30 I've got a Wu game in progress and the god doesn't feel great to me right now 19:11:31 yeah there's a Gn one as well 19:11:35 it might be worth holding in trunk for a version 19:11:47 that talk about merging Wu and Usk intrigued me, but I don't know how far along that idea got 19:11:57 probably not happening this release 19:12:03 i know you may not really care, but i think gn is maybe good to draw in new people 19:12:17 I think the Usk/Wu merge would be great, but I don't want to step on SteelNeuron's ideas 19:12:18 because it's pretty easy to get past lair with it 19:12:21 Lasty: I actually don't see a Wu PR 19:12:32 maybe it got closed 19:12:33 Gn is in a weird place -- bad players think it's too hard, good players think it's too easy (accurately), and so a lot of people seem kind of unhappy w/ it 19:12:45 but it's kinda fun how it is 19:13:00 haha 19:13:44 I think the complaint from "good players" isn't that it's too easy, but that it doesn't play differently from Hu or other generalist species 19:13:51 minmay: also true 19:14:05 but it is also too easy 19:14:06 ??book of flames 19:14:07 book of flames[1/1]: Flame Tongue, Throw Flame, Conjure Flame, Inner Flame, Sticky Flame, Fireball 19:14:18 oh, no magma, ok 19:14:24 true, but so are the rest of the above-median species 19:15:01 I'm not sure the problems with Gn are fixable overall 19:15:30 hmm. I don't think the Wu pull request got merged. I'll check to see if it got closed w/o merge. 19:15:35 I feel like WJC is in an ok place playwise (maybe it helps that I never played before the most recent batch of big changes), I'm concerned though that there's still weird issues that haven't been found out 19:15:39 %git 7b787acd9b73ab6ea37456fa0a1b1f2e28f3ae1a 19:15:39 07advil02 * 0.20-a0-1062-g7b787ac: Calculate the number of WJC movement attacks correctly (ZChris13) 10(7 days ago, 2 files, 18+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7b787acd9b73 19:15:42 like that was only a week ago 19:15:57 yeah 19:16:23 the damage bonuses from the attacks are pretty opaque 19:16:38 I definitely think Wu's current state isn't ideal, it's sort of a question of whether we feel it's sufficiently not idea to hold it back a release 19:16:46 s/idea /ideal/ 19:16:57 As of a couple days ago it seemed like the Wu whirlwind desc had it slowing things, but it doesn't seem to in trunk 19:17:04 mmmm, what need fixed with gn? 19:17:08 that was changed, yeah 19:17:11 "needs" 19:17:16 it no longer slows monsters 19:17:21 !messages 19:17:22 No messages for ASCIIPhilia. 19:17:46 !tell ASCIIPhilia TrCK strategies? 19:17:46 gammafunk: OK, I'll let asciiphilia know. 19:17:49 i have never totally been on board with wu 19:18:13 strategies? 19:18:14 ASCIIPhilia: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 19:18:29 tactics, zips, skips, cheats... 19:18:51 it's a joke, I'm jst giving you messages 19:19:18 Did you check the message I sent you? 19:19:29 I know MPA has done a lot of work on the god, maybe he has a strong opinion either way 19:19:30 I'd probably favor putting it in the release for wjc myself, but I suspect other people have stronger opinions 19:19:32 hrm, I probably saw it in chat and forgot 19:19:32 The pull request I was referencing was https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/502. it did get closed, and Pablo was asked to submit it again w/ changes 19:19:37 but he didn't 19:19:50 oh hm 19:19:53 found funny game bugs. XD 19:20:33 I feel pretty strongly that this PR is the right direction for the god 19:20:39 can you come cwz just a minute? http://webzook.net:8080/#watch-ASCIIPhilia 19:20:43 but I also think that after executing these changes the god needs more power 19:20:48 ASCIIPhilia: if you actually found a bug, you can file a bug report 19:21:19 Lasty, SN got fed up with the process and lost all motivation to work further on it, according to an email I received about a month ago. 19:21:22 I'm not sure about that new walljump in there 19:21:34 Brannock: I'm not surprised to hear that, but I am sad 19:21:39 He made some recommendations for further changes to WJC but no longer wanted to work on it himself 19:22:01 aw 19:22:04 Brannock: what did he recommend? 19:22:16 I leave the god in your hands now. For the record, the changes I genuinely, sincere think would be best are: 19:22:16 80% damage on whirlwind and wall jump. 19:22:16 The 20 AUT -> 10 AUT distraction trick on wall jump. 19:22:16 Whirlwind causes slow as before. 19:22:16 Lunge has a base damage of 100%, but exploits slow and distract as before. 19:22:41 ah, dang. IMO that's back in the wrong direction 19:22:57 Either way, WJC is the dev team's now. 19:23:11 I suppose if he's feeling done w/ it, that opens up the possibility of merging the martial moves into Usk 19:23:19 which I'm 100% sure would be good for Usk 19:23:25 What would this replace with Uskayaw? Stomp and line pass? 19:23:35 y'know, i can feel his disappointment 19:24:03 Brannock: I'd prefer just Stomp 19:24:05 I like Line Pass 19:24:05 i didn't put nearly as much effort in 19:24:14 SN's martial attack designs stem from a shallow conception of crawl's tactics, it's not surprising that they need a lot of changes in order to be good abilities 19:24:21 but IIRC someone advocated that it replace Line Pass 19:24:26 so i'm cool with what exists 19:24:39 line pass is great, don't get rid of that 19:25:13 I agree with SN that the process for submitting something into Crawl has not been ideal but I'm unsure how to approach improving this since volunteer project, team with various opinions, and all 19:25:27 minmay: what is the deep conception of crawl tactics? back up into a hallway? 19:25:38 everytime, all the time? 19:25:47 Brannock: I actually think the process works pretty well. It's tough, but it should be. 19:26:02 It's also not for everyone, but that's fine 19:26:45 ProzacElf: if you're coming at it from the direction of "crawl's tactics are stupid and suck" then I suppose the idea of martial attacks has different implications than it does if you think crawl's basic tactics are salvageable 19:26:46 Oh, hey, since you're here: what're scarves gonna be in 0.20? 19:27:06 lol 19:27:19 ProzacElf: I don't think crawl's tactics are anywhere near that bad 19:27:20 I have lost a lot of motivation to work on Crawl myself and have been putting off fixing up scarves. I'm tempted to just undo the scarf thing and move the new egos back onto cloak 19:27:32 Brannock: :( 19:27:48 I have a WIP that's nearly done for cloud immunity, just needs like 30-45 minutes of more work to finish implementing the immunity ego 19:28:41 minmay: i think crawl tactics are salvageable, and i even think that the wu jian tactics are ok 19:28:47 Brannock: lom lobon checklist 19:29:36 sorry, I'm unsure what exactly you're implying. I can make a couple guesses but it'd be clearer coming from you 19:30:30 Brannock: it's a crack at the player habit of making "[branch] checklists" or "[unique] checklists" that include some resistance, bread to wield against mara, etc. 19:30:55 that was close to my guess yeah 19:30:57 Brannock: and the first thing that jumped to my mind on hearing that scarf ego is "cool, finally I can stand in a tornado" 19:32:28 good HEP bug ASCIIPhilia and others found 19:32:30 https://s9.postimg.org/koyo6u5wf/mara.jpg 19:32:44 very good 19:32:45 you can make a hostile ancestor 19:32:50 with a wand of enslavement 19:33:36 (but its useless) 19:33:38 XD 19:33:47 why does this spriggan forest vault on lair:5 have boggarts 19:34:06 I ran into that myself a couple nights ago and I forgot to ask about that 19:34:16 I think they replaced the spriggan druids? I'm not sure 19:35:01 they got replaced I think because the old one had weird spriggan druids 19:35:04 while we're here, Floodkiller has submitted a PR to improve Gnoll. The PR does not nerf Gnoll (which is probably necessary) but I think it's enough of an improvement to the current status that it's worth pushing in. I have written several paragraphs explaining why and there hasn't been a response yet 19:35:08 oh there he is 19:35:22 There's some bug in the code where they can only be boggarts or orbs of fire. We went w/ boggarts. 19:35:32 I think boggarts are ok for that vault 19:35:37 wait, really? 19:35:41 I mean, is there some major objection to them? 19:35:54 from my experience with it, not really 19:35:54 its just weird b/c they arent spriggans 19:35:54 i'm ok with boggarts 19:35:56 Brannock: I'll take a look 19:35:57 I've ran into that vault a bunch and I like their presence there 19:35:57 just seemed odd 19:36:04 they're FOREST SPIRITS 19:36:09 boggarts possibly need a new tile 19:36:10 its like the vault maker thinks all tiny faeries are spriggans 19:36:32 Brannock: #526? 19:36:38 s� 19:36:51 actually, i think more early vaults should have boggarts 19:36:58 I knew this was some objection from the standpoint of minmay's elf canon 19:37:17 because shadow creatures is pretty lame on d:3 or so 19:37:24 @??boggart 19:37:24 boggart (06g) | Spd: 12 | HD: 4 | HP: 16-23 | AC/EV: 0/12 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(40) | XP: 117 | Sp: shadow creatures, invisibility, blink | Sz: little | Int: human. 19:37:25 neither spriggans nor boggarts are elves! 19:37:34 are the vaults able to mask over the boggarts and give them a rename? 19:37:47 why would you do that... 19:37:47 forest boggarts? 19:37:48 I don't really like the fearsome bark ability. It's something that's been suggested for a lot of species, but I don't think having (a) extra fear scrolls doesn't seem very interesting. 19:37:51 but yeah its not a balance issue or anything since boggarts are like a d:5 monster, just seems like weird theme 19:37:57 their theme is that they're some kind of forest sprite already 19:38:05 I grant that they could use a new tile 19:38:15 mostly since it's a pretty old one that's....not well drawn 19:38:20 but they only show up in non-foresty places unless you get the Depths encompass 19:38:36 well they show up in that foresty vault! 19:38:45 and they show up in the lair end vault as well 19:39:00 and all the time in vaults 19:39:05 fearsome bark and cause fear spell existing in the same game seems weird 19:39:21 well orcs show up in orc and in vaults 19:39:27 it's much noisier than cause fear, which I think is the interesting interaction 19:39:58 sounds like the cause fear spell shoudl go then 19:40:21 lol 19:40:30 probably should just put arcane marksman out of their misery already as well then 19:40:32 minmay, i want to see your game 19:40:50 I mean you're not really going to make a species more unique by giving it an ability that every other species can use too 19:40:58 i often agree with you 19:41:17 but at some point, there has to be an actual feature 19:41:19 I've personally never cared for the existance of that spell 19:41:30 but simple removal is probably not the best thing for AM 19:41:48 a lot of species abilities aren't very interesting with that logic, to be honest 19:42:04 hrm, their book has more spells than I'd thought 19:42:18 gammafunk: lotsa spells, just not that many that people use 19:42:23 yeah 19:42:40 I mean on that point, how many species have abilities are are nearly exactly replicated by spells? 19:42:49 or rather what are those species/abilities 19:43:02 naga and Dr are the main ones 19:43:21 they aren't even exact duplicates of spells, although granted they are fairly similar 19:43:39 well, neither is Fearsome Bark an exact duplicate 19:43:47 Floodkiller, is fearsome bark screenwide? 19:44:23 Brannock: yeah, I think all the fear effects use mass_enchant, which goes to all in LOS 19:44:27 could affect a short radius out from Gn instead of the entire screen, something like range 3? So they can clear off being swarmed, but risk drawing even more attention because of the noise 19:44:37 hrm 19:44:50 I suppose that's possible, but the issue is it's untargeted 19:44:55 would it even display a range 19:45:01 the player needs to know what the range is 19:45:07 what's the power level on bark? 19:45:11 I suppose it could be in the description if need be 19:45:31 XL*5 + 50 19:45:42 much lower than ?fear iirc 19:45:44 the 50 could probably go lower, honestly 19:45:48 yeah ?fear is 200 19:46:09 !calc 200 / 27.0 19:46:10 7.41 19:46:27 in fact, I could probably drop it to 15 and it would be fine at spellpower 50 when first acquired 19:46:47 spellpower 50 fear is pretty strong 19:46:48 make it cap at 150 19:47:19 There are enough areas of the game where most of the monsters are low MR that spamming fear is pretty effective 19:47:20 the way mass enchantment works, the hexes reach max spellpower at 134 regardless of cap 19:47:26 also can fear not eat scrolls of blinking, thanks 19:47:36 minmay, eh? 19:47:44 I'm not familiar with that behavior 19:47:54 I don't think I've ever seen it happen, but I could be mistaken 19:47:57 unless it changed without me looking, item-using monsters that are feared will read any scrolls of blinking/tele/etc in their inventory 19:48:06 lol 19:48:15 expedient! 19:48:20 if you are one of the few people who actually use the spell it will happen just about every game 19:48:49 if you don't abuse the spell to its fullest you won't see it very often (which is why most players aren't aware of it) 19:49:31 yeah, it definitely still happens, just checked 19:50:33 <|amethyst> !source mon-act.cc:997 19:50:33 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc#L997 19:50:34 if it drops to XL*5 with no bonus, it would stretch out the spellpower to cap at 130 at XL 27, so almost max spellpower; +15 would make it cap at XL 25 19:50:40 yeah, I don't use it to its full power 19:50:46 because that's pretty irritating 19:51:05 it's honestly a very overpowered spell 19:51:09 Lasty, what do you think about constraining its range? 19:51:18 bark, I mean 19:51:29 minmay: yeah, it and confuse IMO 19:51:43 tho no one agrees w/ me about confuse 19:51:45 cause fear is miles more broken than confuse 19:51:45 massively 19:51:57 there's like, comparing level 6 haste to level 4 cblink 19:52:03 that's* 19:52:22 Don't get me wrong, confuse is very OP too, but cause fear is just nuts, it's more on the level of enslavement or maybe even worse 19:53:29 I avoided mentioning this at first b/c derailment but I don't think people are adequately appreciating how powerful unlimited fear is 19:53:39 Brannock: I mean, I don't really like the idea of active-ability fear on a species at all -- it just doesn't feel like a very interesting choice to add to an entire species. Making it limited range would mean that there are fewer useful use cases for it, but it doesn't really make it much more interesting IMO 19:53:54 minmay: yeah, you're right. It's very, very strong. 19:54:56 I think Gnoll need something else, then, to 'complete' the design. I don't think the XP curve and Strong Nose are quite enough. I keep bringing Barachim up but they didn't feel right until +LOS got involved. 19:55:01 Brannock: maybe enough noise would make it interesting, or making more noise over a period of time or something, but I don't know. 19:55:15 How loud is ?noise? 19:55:20 35 IIRC 19:55:21 Lasty: It's currently set to make noise 25, same as ?noise 19:55:23 fangs are a way bigger deal than strong nose IMO 19:55:30 ah 19:55:43 so pretty dang loud 19:55:43 because I copied the number 19:55:43 haha 19:56:29 At this point I'd rather give gnolls a signature weakness than a signature bonus 19:57:34 I wonder if it would be noticeable or interesting to have them generate double noise or something 19:57:55 how noticeable is shoutitis as a mutation? 19:58:00 give them really low str imo 19:58:03 well, advil's noise bar makes noise MUCH more visible 19:58:04 Brannock: unnoticeable imo 19:58:05 not very ime 19:58:28 minmay: low str and low int would be more interesting than they are now IMO 19:58:35 shouting isn't very loud 19:59:03 You cast Magic Dart! You bark! You attack the leopard gecko! You bark! 19:59:12 a species that's just constantly yapping 19:59:36 casting higher level conjurations basically barks every time 19:59:36 Low stats might work, but they'd also make Gn even more unpopular with new/bad players 19:59:49 which I don't particularly care about 19:59:50 is there a nerf that wouldn't? 20:00:01 players aren't known for liking nerfs :P 20:00:09 Brannock: I'm okay w/ gnolls being unpopular with new/bad players or experienced/good players, but ideally not both 20:00:13 yes 20:00:26 I'd lean towards making the new/bad players happier with the species 20:00:54 since experienced/good players already hate the current version regardless of other changes 20:01:06 Lasty, any thoughts on the new XP curve? Increasing the opportunity cost for focusing skills further separates them from Human who have the opportunity to go a focused build, even if it's ideal for the perfect player to evenly spread out skill 20:01:41 That and the fix to Ru's Sacrifice Skill are worth adding in I think 20:01:52 until if/when Gnolls get reworked 20:02:03 I left the changes separate for cherry picking if the entire PR isn't desired 20:02:21 Brannock: I like the new XP table better. I'm not sure it's 100% sufficient to make them interesting, but I think it pushes the XP table into a more interesting territory than it is now 20:02:21 they should be separate anyway, good practice to do so 20:02:46 Okay, let me stash my scarf work then I'll cherry pick these Gn changes into trunk 20:03:48 When I was playing my Gn, I noticed the slowdown in skill gain, but I had so much skill already when it kicked in that it didn't matter. Making the curve harsher might be able to push it into the range where it feels significantly punishing at a certain point 20:04:39 the new skill table moves should be roughly similar to the current system to XL 12 (about 900 xp more), but it sharp dives afterwards due to the lower floor 20:04:59 yeah 20:05:18 which means that you might conceivably not want to get a skill to 18 20:05:23 which wasn't really true in the game I played 20:05:26 well, i am horrible at the game 20:05:45 ...when would you ever want to train a skill to 18 with current Gn? 20:05:51 and so i think that gn is great if you want to get to the S branches 20:05:52 24300 for the current system for 18, 37909 for the new system 20:06:04 other than trog I guss 20:06:04 guess* 20:06:04 minmay, some players have been brute-forcing the build 20:06:13 and it's working because you get high enough before the diminishing returns really start affecting you 20:06:28 and since everyone is better than me at this game 20:06:30 minmay: if you find exactly one good weapon and it hits min delay at 18, it's not particularly bad to get it. 20:06:35 gn is the best race 20:06:44 and we should nerf it in to the ground 20:07:02 I'm okay with gnolls trying to super-focus a build but the point where that becomes successful shouldn't be during the first three runes and should be more towards Depths and later 20:07:08 !lg lasty gn 20:07:09 1. Lasty the Warrior (L27 GnWn of Makhleb), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2017-04-23 18:28:35, with 1675308 points after 69616 turns and 3:31:17. 20:07:20 !lg lasty gn x=fifteenskills 20:07:22 1. [fifteenskills=Fighting,Maces & Flails,Shields] Lasty the Warrior (L27 GnWn of Makhleb), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2017-04-23 18:28:35, with 1675308 points after 69616 turns and 3:31:17. 20:07:23 !lg lasty gn -log 20:07:24 1. Lasty, XL27 GnWn, T:69616: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/Lasty/morgue-Lasty-20170423-182835.txt 20:07:42 oh wait, that was 16 M&F, 18.5 Fighting 20:07:52 do you have the same problem with e.g. playing Mi as a conjurer? 20:08:02 03Floodkiller02 {Brannock} 07* 0.20-a0-1090-g7d51e6b: Clean up skill_exp_needed 10(11 days ago, 1 file, 27+ 21-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7d51e6bdfc81 20:08:02 03Floodkiller02 {Brannock} 07* 0.20-a0-1091-gac3690e: Replace more instances of Bultungin 10(10 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ac3690e2ed95 20:08:02 03Floodkiller02 {Brannock} 07* 0.20-a0-1092-g95dc2c4: Adjust Gnoll exp table 10(8 days ago, 2 files, 20+ 20-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/95dc2c4af499 20:08:02 03Floodkiller02 {Brannock} 07* 0.20-a0-1093-g7ae0f1a: Prevent Gnolls from sacrificing skill 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7ae0f1ae7af1 20:08:09 me? 20:08:09 because that's a significantly better build than doing that sort of thing with Gn 20:08:30 because i'd get (x) weapon and fighting up to about 20 before worrying about anythign else 20:08:32 as a mi 20:08:36 minmay: what would you have done differently w/ this gnoll log? 20:09:37 way lower fighting, way lower shields, no stealth, way more spells 20:09:49 oh, Floodkiller I closed the PR, so just move your work on Fearsome Bark (if any) to a new PR 20:09:51 is what I would've done differently 20:09:55 minmay: no plate, or still plate? 20:10:15 (assuming I were trying to win) 20:10:21 I would've still worn the plate and probably that specific shield too 20:11:33 I probably could have gotten more spells without too much trouble, but aside from the power spells I normally skip -- e.g. animate foo -- I'm not sure any of them would have helped meaningfully. 20:13:42 W/ plate and a sub-15 shield, there aren't all that many spells that would make a difference that would be cheap to get castable. I think. 20:15:15 Lasty, were you considering cherry-picking some of the stuff from SN's closed WJC PR? 20:15:31 That may help get the god into a better place while WJC-Usk merges are considered 20:16:07 Brannock: I'd like to put some time into it, since w/ these changes the god is probably kinda bad w/o some xtra support 20:16:38 Okay. For the best, really 20:16:50 but yeah, I should do it soon 20:16:55 hmm 20:17:05 Maybe I can do it faster than I was thinking. 20:17:14 I'm almost done with my cloud immunity WIP. But I have a feeling that this implementation is hacky as hell 20:18:07 (have_passive(passive_t::cloud_immunity) 20:18:08 || you.wearing_ego(EQ_ALL_ARMOUR, SPARM_CLOUD_IMMUNE) --- I feel like there's a better way to do the check. Maybe a separate cloud immunity function? 20:22:10 oh I see there's already a function that checks this 20:22:18 hm, is there a convenient way to pull this request to my local clone? 20:22:30 at bottom, click "command line instructions" 20:22:51 oh you might need to reopen it 20:23:21 git pull git://github.com/PabloMansanet/crawl.git WJCDizzyRevision 20:23:30 make a branch first, of course 20:23:55 ty 20:24:05 the commit list will look weird until you rebase it iirc 20:24:08 <|amethyst> Brannock: if so, IMO it should be an actor:: virtual method and cloud mage should have it too 20:24:38 |amethyst, what about actor_cloud_immune in cloud.cc? 20:25:08 %git 52bc8b1c5 20:25:08 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.19-a0-1702-g52bc8b1: Make Qazlal's cloud immunity global (Arrhythmia) 10(7 months ago, 7 files, 13+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/52bc8b1c5241 20:25:11 is the last time this was touched 20:25:25 Brannock: just noticed that I mentioned Fearsome Bark in the xp table change commit, so there might be some questions about a non-existent feature (oops) 20:25:28 I think? 20:25:37 Floodkiller, damn it, I should have checked the commit messages first 20:25:43 ah well 20:26:22