00:00:00 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-1078-g4874019 (34)
00:22:40 -!- stubblyhead` is now known as stubblyhead
01:19:16 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1078-g4874019 (34)
01:57:27 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1078-g4874019
02:29:21 <ASCIIPhilia2> Situation report:
02:29:22 <ASCIIPhilia2> Ubuntu 16.04 (not docker, with xerial chroot) :sucess, its game run is work well.
02:29:22 <ASCIIPhilia2> Ubuntu 16.04 Docker(with xerial chroot): failed by out of pty devices.
02:31:44 <ASCIIPhilia2> For docker automation, I think this is the last ploblem. (becus not docker ubuntu work well) :)
02:33:27 <ASCIIPhilia2> ah. ++not docker ubuntu can't run webtiles via '/etc/init.d/webtiles start'
02:52:15 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1078-g4874019
02:54:32 <gammafunk> yeah, for ubuntu you would have to adapt the script to systemd
02:54:47 <gammafunk> for the pty issue, I have no idea
02:55:33 <ASCIIPhilia2> how to adapt the script to systemd?
02:55:57 <ASCIIPhilia2> give me wisdom. :)
02:56:05 <gammafunk> alas, I have none :)
02:56:13 <gammafunk> I'm sure it isn't too difficult
02:56:20 <gammafunk> but I haven't looked into systemd format
02:56:33 <gammafunk> perhaps I can a bit later
02:57:23 <ASCIIPhilia2> aha! thanks XD
02:58:25 <ASCIIPhilia2> btw big ploblem is tty (TT)
02:58:32 <ASCIIPhilia2> *pty
03:00:25 <gammafunk> it is a rite of passage, ascii
03:00:35 <gammafunk> you are a unix admin, you must suffer
03:01:26 <ASCIIPhilia2> hah, That's true, but it's sad.
03:14:12 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1078-g4874019 (34)
03:32:36 <ASCIIPhilia2> docker ubuntu game pty launch error is "/home/crawl/DGL/crawl-master/webserver/terminal.py", line 47
03:32:36 <ASCIIPhilia2> ERROR POINT CODE IS [self.child_fd = pty.fork()]
03:32:37 <ASCIIPhilia2> python -c "import pty; print pty.fork()" cmd not print error, just print '(number, number)' like '(266, 3)'
03:34:42 <ASCIIPhilia2> and it is same via other user (crawl, crawl-dev)
03:41:38 -!- Telnaior_ is now known as Telnaior
03:50:54 <ASCIIPhilia2> oh.. its work... it was just mount problem... after i remount, work well
03:51:15 <ASCIIPhilia2> apparently i registered at fstab... it was not mounted. That's a little strange.
03:52:56 <gammafunk> yes
03:53:03 <gammafunk> but yesterday (or the day before)
03:53:06 <gammafunk> we mounted it
03:53:09 <gammafunk> and it still failed
03:53:20 <gammafunk> but good to hear that all the same
03:53:26 <gammafunk> |amethyst did say that this was likely the issue
03:53:31 <gammafunk> maybe somehow our mount was bad
04:07:11 -!- Telnaior_ is now known as Telnaior
04:14:50 <ASCIIPhilia2> maybe xerial chroot reinstall was key of solve
04:17:09 <ASCIIPhilia2> anyway thanks for |amethyst mount was bad. :)
04:18:07 <ASCIIPhilia2> It would have been a lot harder without his advice...
04:19:03 <ASCIIPhilia2> I was probably somewhere in Google.
04:23:16 <ASCIIPhilia2> Still. XD
04:27:04 <gammafunk> hrm, it could have been that, yes
06:10:53 <Cheibriados> multiple notes for the same artifact spellbook 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11044 by nagdon
06:55:56 <ASCIIPhilia2> how to auto start /usr/local/sbin/dgamelaunch when 'crawl' user ssh logined ?
06:57:38 <ASCIIPhilia2> i added '/usr/local/sbin/dgamelaunch' at /home/crawl/.bashrc last line, but not work...
07:23:45 <gammafunk> ASCIIPhilia2: you want to set the user login shell to dgamelaunch, I think
07:24:01 <ASCIIPhilia2> yes
07:24:07 <ASCIIPhilia2> like CAO
07:24:34 <gammafunk> but don't do it through bash script
07:25:13 <gammafunk> you may be able to use chsh
07:25:41 <ASCIIPhilia2> why not bash? security?
07:26:22 <gammafunk> ASCIIPhilia2: if the binary crashes or something like that, it drops back to shell
07:26:51 <ASCIIPhilia2> oh...
07:27:08 <gammafunk> the binary meaning dgamelaunch itself
07:27:19 <gammafunk> see step 13.4
07:27:31 <gammafunk> which also gives advice for ssh config
07:27:54 <gammafunk> but I think you may be able to use the chsh command to set crawl user's login shell
07:27:57 <ASCIIPhilia2> already fix sshdconfig XD
07:28:54 <ASCIIPhilia2> chsh? I heard it now. :D
07:29:32 <gammafunk> you may need to run that as the user crawl
07:30:06 <ASCIIPhilia2> Can I be a different user?
07:30:20 <ASCIIPhilia2> must be use crawl?
07:32:46 <gammafunk> apparently you can do
07:33:23 <ASCIIPhilia2> if i use 'crawl'?
07:33:28 <gammafunk> usermod -s /usr/local/sbin/dgamelaunch crawl
07:33:49 <gammafunk> as root
07:33:57 <gammafunk> or through sudo
07:34:12 <ASCIIPhilia2> what is s flag?
07:34:21 <gammafunk> shell
07:34:27 <gammafunk> man usermod
07:34:29 <gammafunk> for more details
07:35:02 <gammafunk> usermod is a lower level command on debian distros to modify user data like this
07:37:47 <ASCIIPhilia2> aha. it setting user 'crawl' default shell dgamelaunch.
07:37:58 <ASCIIPhilia2> oh.. It can also be a shell. I thought Shell was something special.
07:40:58 <gammafunk> nope, just another command
07:41:57 <gammafunk> local users are allowed to change their own login shell, but unless they are root, they are restricted to the shells listed in /etc/shells
07:42:38 <gammafunk> so in that sense shells are special, but you can add any program to /etc/shells and users can change their login shell to that with chsh
07:42:57 <ASCIIPhilia2> but usermod -s can set other type shell?
07:43:37 <|amethyst> yes, but can only be used by root
07:43:45 <ASCIIPhilia2> aha
07:44:06 <ASCIIPhilia2> can i use another user? like joshua?
07:44:08 <ASCIIPhilia2> If i setting user shell dgamelaunch. don't need any other settings?
07:45:00 <|amethyst> the user needs to own (or at least have write access to) the directories where saves, rc files, ttyrecs, etc go
07:45:54 <|amethyst> but if you use the user 'joshua' everywhere the guide refers to the user 'crawl', you should be good
07:47:04 <gammafunk> make the login password crawlingtosouthkorea
07:47:22 <ASCIIPhilia2> haha
07:56:01 <ASCIIPhilia2> can i use usermod -G NEWUSER -a crawl'
07:56:04 <ASCIIPhilia2> ?
07:56:34 <|amethyst> that adds crawl to a group called 'NEWUSER'
07:56:54 <ASCIIPhilia2> oh it reversed
07:56:55 <|amethyst> you probably meant the other way around, if you want to add NEWUSER to a group named 'crawl'
07:57:46 <ASCIIPhilia2> usermod -G crawl NEWUSER is correct?
07:58:09 <|amethyst> keep the -a unless you want to remove them from existing groups
07:58:24 <|amethyst> this is assuming you made a group named 'crawl'
07:58:38 <|amethyst> the guide doesn't really do much with group permissions though
07:58:53 <ASCIIPhilia2> hmm...
08:01:11 <miserium> Hey gang, just dropping in to let you know a commit broken the nightly android builds: https://pastebin.com/GtAL4uVc
08:03:31 <|amethyst> !blame gammafunk
08:03:32 <Sequell> I pronounce gammafunk... Guilty!
08:04:46 <ASCIIPhilia2> i tested add new user and set shell dgamelaunch via usermod, it work well. without file permission command...
08:06:02 <ASCIIPhilia2> will there be a problem? by any chance?...
08:06:28 <|amethyst> ASCIIPhilia2:  make sure you can start a game, save it, then load the saved game
08:06:48 <|amethyst> and that editing the rc works
08:06:49 <ASCIIPhilia2> yes work well
08:06:59 <|amethyst> then it sounds like you're probably fine
08:08:38 <Cheibriados> 03|amethyst02 07* 0.20-a0-1079-gb2cf7a4: Avoid a two-argument fprintf (miserium) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b2cf7a44cd7b
08:08:48 <ASCIIPhilia2> edit rc button is ' o) Edit options    O) with Virus
08:08:49 <ASCIIPhilia2> ' ?
08:08:49 <|amethyst> miserium:  thanks!
08:09:12 <|amethyst> ASCIIPhilia2:  yes, either (the commands use two different editors)
08:09:37 <ASCIIPhilia2> hmm it dosn't open
08:09:38 <miserium> yep no problem. I'll go kick off a build
08:09:51 <ASCIIPhilia2> play game and load game is work well
08:10:08 <ASCIIPhilia2> but edit options not opened
08:10:47 <|amethyst> ASCIIPhilia2:  do you have bin/virus and/or bin/ee under the chroot?
08:10:59 <|amethyst> ASCIIPhilia2:  those should have been built as part of dgamelaunch
08:11:26 <|amethyst> unfortunately, when something does go wrong it's a pain to figure out where
08:11:37 <ASCIIPhilia2> need runuser -l ${USER_CRAWL_DEV} -c "cd ~/dgamelaunch && sudo cp ee virus ${CRAWL_DGL_PATH}" && \
08:11:38 <ASCIIPhilia2> runuser -l ${USER_CRAWL_DEV} -c "cd ~/dgamelaunch && sudo cp virus /usr/local/sbin/" && \
08:11:47 <ASCIIPhilia2> *need is mistype
08:12:13 <ASCIIPhilia2> already run above command
08:12:23 <ASCIIPhilia2> hmm..
08:15:12 <ASCIIPhilia2> guide /usr/local/sbin is in the chroot /sbin ?
08:15:55 <ASCIIPhilia2> oh..
08:16:48 <ASCIIPhilia2> i miss read step 6 (TT)..
08:18:55 <ASCIIPhilia2> good i fix it, work well :)
08:58:10 -!- Reverie is now known as Catiua
09:09:23 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-1079-gb2cf7a4 (34)
09:10:00 <hellmonk> fresh from reddit: "They convert EV into DPS, which encourages you to partner longsword use with dodging just like short blades get more damage from stealth."
09:10:07 <hellmonk> this is why riposte is a bad mechanic btw
09:28:14 <advil> hm, this messages thing has a fairly simple cause, actually: load_messages overwrites the entire (circular) msgs buffer, so any messages that were shown while loading but have scrolled off the message panel get lost
09:44:37 <advil> man this is bringing me back, my very first project in my first programming job as an undergrad RA was to work on yet another roll-your-own logging system :D
10:38:52 <Jafet> hellmonk, bet reddit doesn't know about this secret tech though: cleaving converts ac into dps
10:39:05 <hellmonk> lol
10:40:43 <hellmonk> also a reminder that riposte means your damage with a longblade is dependent on a) monster hd and b) monster spell casting rate, two mechanics that are opaque as ever loving fuck
11:17:40 <rumflump> !tell minmay http://i.imgur.com/gxA2LM6.png
11:17:41 <Sequell> rumflump: OK, I'll let minmay know.
11:18:59 <rumflump> hellmo, should I revert the grid
11:19:31 <rumflump> everyone who's played it complains about it, even good players like Pekkekk
11:19:34 <hellmonk> follow your heart
11:25:06 <rumflump> mb I'll just change it to normal stone, to prevent the glass timeline from happening
11:26:00 <rumflump> I wish I had direct experience with that map. 9 caustic shrikes seems like a lot, though
11:26:12 <rumflump> have you gotten it?
11:26:29 <hellmonk> nope
11:26:44 <hellmonk> tbh I would probably skip the floor on a lot of characters
12:22:23 <Cheibriados> Spelling error in description for "Zin the Law-Giver" 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11045 by Refinement
12:26:21 <Cheibriados> 03|amethyst02 07* 0.20-a0-1080-g492c16e: Fix spelling (#11045). 10(11 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/492c16e7ba30
12:27:24 <Pleasingfungus> |amethyst: god damn it
12:27:24 <Sequell> Pleasingfungus: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
12:27:36 <Pleasingfungus> i found that bug, fixed it, did git blame to find the introducing commit, pushed
12:27:41 <Pleasingfungus> and you'd already pushed your own fix!
12:27:57 <|amethyst> too slow, old man
12:28:19 <|amethyst> well, more like I skipped the git blame step
12:30:20 <Pleasingfungus> ya
12:30:28 <Pleasingfungus> has anyone noticed that guy dumping a bunch of patch fixes in mantis?
12:36:23 <advil> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11040 ?
12:36:25 <advil> (hi!)
12:37:23 <user__> Hello! I'm trying to build android version of DCSS with "make ANDROID=1 android" command and I'm getting an error "make[1]: *** No rule to make target `jni/src/../SDL2/src/main/android/SDL_android_main.c', needed by `obj/local/armeabi/objs/main/__/SDL2/src/main/android/SDL_android_main.o'.  Stop." Does anyone know how to fix it? Thanks!
12:38:03 <Pleasingfungus> 10972, 11000, and i guess i was also thinking of 11003, but that's someone else
12:40:04 <advil> oh, I see, adding them as comments
12:41:03 <Pleasingfungus> also hi advil
12:41:11 <Pleasingfungus> yeah, 11040 is another one
12:41:15 <Pleasingfungus> forgot about that one
12:41:26 <advil> I doubt it has been highly noticed, I certainly didn't -- 11040 I saw because I have that level of emails enabled
12:42:30 <advil> user__: someone mentioned in channel this recently that the android build isn't working right, but I don't think anyone's had a chance to look (and it may be that no current devs can easily do anything with android errors).  However, that particular error looks like you're missing the right version of sdl
12:42:38 <advil> which is simpler
12:43:58 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.20-a0-1081-g89cde08: Fix god wrath descriptions (11008) 10(60 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/89cde0850052
12:45:00 <advil> is there even a way to search for users on mantis?
12:46:39 <Pleasingfungus> probably
12:46:49 <Pleasingfungus> oh, to search for comments?
12:46:51 <Pleasingfungus> probably not
12:47:01 <advil> yeah
12:47:28 <Pleasingfungus> however
12:47:36 <Pleasingfungus> those are the only three
12:47:53 <geekosaur> re android build, if you just grabbed a source tarball out of git releases then you need to also grab the release tarballs for the submodules and unpack them under src/contrib
12:48:33 <Pleasingfungus> advil: http://i.imgur.com/MTGAp49.png
12:48:34 <geekosaur> but yes, android is perennially broken, and nobody here knows how to fix it (it was "contributed" ~~ dumped on the devs)
12:49:15 <advil> Pleasingfungus: oh wow you get all the emails
12:59:44 <Pleasingfungus> for better or worse
13:01:55 <Cheibriados> 03Russell Dunk02 {PleasingFungus} 07* 0.20-a0-1082-g47261af: Stomp: warn before damaging allies (11003) 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 23+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/47261afe9024
13:04:05 <user__> advil, I've checked out crawl with all submodules from github, and file "crawl-ref/source/contrib/sdl2/src/main/android/SDL_android_main.c" is present. I also tried to build 0.16.2 (this is the last tiles version for android you've published on your site) and I got the same error. Anyway, guys from crawl.newtzie.com build nightlies from master branch every day, so I think that there are troubles with my environment.
13:06:10 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.20-a0-1083-g7d2332c: Add Russell Dunk to the CREDITS 10(41 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7d2332c27fc1
13:06:29 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1081-g89cde08 (34)
13:06:47 <hellmonk> i dub thee, Sir Russel Dunk
13:08:00 <Cheibriados> 03Edward Randtke02 {PleasingFungus} 07* 0.20-a0-1084-gc284483: Fix movement prompt for swimmers (11000) 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c284483c0407
13:09:18 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-1081-g89cde08 (34)
13:09:25 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.20-a0-1085-g627af9b: Add erandtke to the CREDITS 10(32 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/627af9bc1bcf
13:13:14 <Pleasingfungus> hm, the patch in 11040 is a bit... messy
13:13:30 <Pleasingfungus> i think the author got confused midway through writing it
13:13:37 <advil> user__: it does seem like something's wrong with your environment, but my knowledge of android+sdl is minimal enough that I'm not really sure what it could be :-/
13:16:20 <advil> hmm, yeah that patch looks like it'd need some testing
13:21:16 <advil> user__: oh, also, the unrelated thing that was apparently preventing the android nightlies from compiling this morning already got fixed, so compiling android should be as possible as it ever is. but you may want to git pull or redownload the repo
13:21:48 <advil> %git b2cf7a44cd7b
13:21:48 <Cheibriados> 07|amethyst02 * 0.20-a0-1079-gb2cf7a4: Avoid a two-argument fprintf (miserium) 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b2cf7a44cd7b
13:25:40 <user__> advil, I'll try to build trunk. Thank you!
13:31:13 <minmay> !tell rumflump I can't recall any vault ever receiving *positive* player feedback but disabling the glass and statue transformations is probably a good idea until either the interface or monster pathfinding gets fixed, yeah
13:31:14 <Sequell> minmay: OK, I'll let rumflump know.
13:32:15 <minmay> !tell rumflump I also agree that encompass vaults are terrible as a general rule but there are quite a few encompass vaults in the game already, so I assumed my opinion on them wasn't that common *shrug*
13:32:16 <Sequell> minmay: OK, I'll let rumflump know.
13:35:38 <rumflump> gotcha
13:35:38 <Sequell> rumflump: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them.
13:35:56 <|amethyst> !tell |amethyst !tell |amethyst !tell |amethyst !tell |amethyst !tell |amethyst !tell |amethyst !tell |amethyst
13:35:57 <Sequell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let |amethyst know.
13:36:01 <|amethyst> !messages
13:36:01 <Sequell> (1/1) |amethyst said (5s ago): !tell |amethyst !tell |amethyst !tell |amethyst !tell |amethyst !tell |amethyst !tell |amethyst
14:09:20 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-1085-g627af9b (34)
14:17:57 <|amethyst> Pleasingfungus:  hm, I'm not sure why it's necessary: _cast_los_attack_spell is supposed to first build up a list of affected monsters, then target them one-by-one
14:17:57 <hellmonk> btw guys in case I havent made it clear yet, riposte is a bad mechanic
14:17:59 <Pleasingfungus> why
14:18:03 <Pleasingfungus> i think i've missed this meme
14:18:15 <|amethyst> ITYM evasion is a bad mechanic
14:18:37 <hellmonk> it nominally scales your damage off of ev, but players are constantly getting misled because they think the effect is bigger than it is
14:18:39 <Pleasingfungus> |amethyst: hm, the ozo's part might not be necessary at all, yeah
14:18:49 <hellmonk> and it also scales your damage off of several opaque mechanics
14:18:56 <|amethyst> Pleasingfungus:  doesn't Drain Life use the same backend?
14:19:06 <hellmonk> because things like monster hd and the fighter flag contribute to monster accuracy
14:19:37 <Pleasingfungus> oh, yeah, for some reason i thought it was in another file
14:20:05 <Pleasingfungus> hellmonk: hm, sounds like you're saying it's a *flawed* mechanic.
14:20:12 <Pleasingfungus> which is true! very meme way of phrasing it, tho
14:20:18 <Pleasingfungus> (memes = bad)
14:20:32 <Pleasingfungus> (sad... but true!)
14:20:33 <hellmonk> well, it's bad in the sense that I don't think you can fix it without overhauling how accuracy works in crawl
14:20:41 <hellmonk> which tbf is probably desirable for other reasons
14:21:07 <hellmonk> eagerly awaiting the accuracy reform branch
14:21:19 <Pleasingfungus> get hype
14:21:24 <Pleasingfungus> imo remove accuracy. all attacks hit
14:21:35 <hellmonk> well then you'd really have to remove riposte lol
14:21:49 <Pleasingfungus> details
14:22:38 <rumflump> remove accuracy sounds really good
14:22:43 <hellmonk> not sure about the distinction you're drawing between a flawed mechanic and a bad one either, a flawed mechanic is just a bad one that people are willing to fix
14:24:03 <Pleasingfungus> a flawed mechanic is a mechanic that hurts the game experience; a bad mechanic is one that hurts the game experience more than it helps it
14:24:28 <hellmonk> ok, I think riposte hurts the game experience more than it helps it though
14:24:33 <Pleasingfungus> i got that
14:24:39 <Pleasingfungus> but i don't think your argument is strong enough to convince me of that
14:25:00 <Pleasingfungus> that's all i'm sayin
14:25:04 <hellmonk> it would help if you told me the positives that you think riposte brings to the table
14:25:35 <hellmonk> bc frankly I don't think there are any significant tactical/strategic ones and the flavor is weird too
14:26:08 <Pleasingfungus> qualitatively differentiates lbl from m&f; provides soft encouragement to pick one over the other based on strategic choices [heavy vs light armour etc]
14:26:17 <Pleasingfungus> why do you think the flavour is weird?
14:26:55 <hellmonk> I don't believe that the soft encouragement is significant because longblades generally outdamage maces in heavy armour
14:27:12 <hellmonk> I think the flavour is weird because you can't riposte with a rapier
14:27:17 <hellmonk> but can with three swords stapled together by magic
14:27:30 <Pleasingfungus> sounds like you feel like lbl damage should be toned down, then
14:27:36 <hellmonk> (that's more of a problem of having two blade schools though)
14:28:12 <minmay> Is that encouragement desirable? shouldn't lbl vs. maces be an actual decision instead of determined by the armour you're wearing?
14:28:31 <Pleasingfungus> what is 'an actual decision'?
14:29:32 <Pleasingfungus> there are a lot of factors in weapon choice in crawl. your aptitudes; the weapons you've found already; which weapons are more common than others; whether you're following a gifting god or not; cross-training; all of those are strategic concerns. 'heavy vs light armour' is another element to add into that mix; it's a soft factor, so it's not decisive, but it's another element to balance off.
14:30:28 <Pleasingfungus> you can say, for example "the numbers are wrong; there's no real choice, and lbl is always going to be better." that's something you can fix quantitatively in a number of ways.
14:30:32 <minmay> I guess there's no point even talking about it right now anyway, since the difference in riposte count between 8 EV and 30 EV is very small
14:31:14 <Pleasingfungus> if EV doesn't actually do anything, that sounds like a larger problem.
14:31:18 <hellmonk> you can arguably fix that by making riposte chance very high and base damage much lower, but I think that would be undesirable for several other reasons
14:32:00 <hellmonk> and by very high I mean 100% or more
14:32:31 <minmay> I think if anything it would be better if riposte didn't depend on EV at all; just have the same chance to riposte whether you dodge, block, or get hit (ofc you need to change the name from "riposte")
14:32:52 <Pleasingfungus> what would that riposte mechanic add to the game?
14:32:54 <minmay> then the damage output from it would just depend on how often the monster attacks, which is pretty perceptible to users
14:33:02 <minmay> whereas how often you dodge isn't at all
14:33:03 <Pleasingfungus> like, what decisions would the player make based on it?
14:33:30 <minmay> The same that current riposte adds: you're better against monsters that make many melee attacks at the expense of being worse against monsters that don't
14:33:47 <Pleasingfungus> well, that's not how riposte works right now.
14:33:57 <advil> I sort of agree with the flavor point about rapiers, but I think if anything the issue is that rapiers are misnamed for what they generally do in crawl
14:34:05 <minmay> and, theoretically, would decide on weapons based on whether you want to be better against the first group of monsters or the second
14:34:09 <minmay> How is it not how riposte works right now?
14:34:26 <minmay> It's certainly how I treat the decision
14:34:26 <hellmonk> yeah, right now you're better against monsters with low hd and no fighter flag and no spells and worse against those that have high hd or the fighter flag or cast a lot
14:34:28 <Pleasingfungus> hydras and trolls trigger riposte at most once per turn; executioners trigger it several times per turn.
14:34:45 <minmay> Oh
14:34:54 <Pleasingfungus> this is based on minotaur headbutt code. it's a change that elliptic made some years ago.
14:35:05 <minmay> I thought you were talking about EV or something
14:35:09 <Pleasingfungus> no.
14:36:05 <Pleasingfungus> anyway, i've got to go to lunch. good talking with you all!
14:36:14 <Pleasingfungus> have plenty of sexy elf dreams :)
14:36:22 <minmay> So, sure, if you want to be pedantic about it, replace "you're better against monsters that make many melee attacks" as "you're better against monsters that make many melee attack actions"
14:36:24 <minmay> ...
14:36:41 <hellmonk> something I learned today while running fsim is that weapon accuracy sometimes matters for low hd monsters against high ev players, as in I'm getting 20% in one fsim and 15% in another for an orc against 28 ev
14:38:14 <minmay> hellmonk: going from 80% to 85% dodge rate is a 25% decrease in the damage you take, yes, but it's only a 6.25% increase in the number of ripostes
14:38:30 <hellmonk> I wasnt talking about this being significant in the context of riposte
14:38:36 <hellmonk> just in the context of getting fsim numbers
14:38:54 <hellmonk> but I didn't make that clear, so mb
14:38:56 <minmay> hellmonk: well, I'm also responding to your hd and fighter flag comment because those are pretty small effects on riposte damage
14:39:05 <hellmonk> yeah I'm aware
14:39:28 <minmay> imagine if other weapon classes' damage were this impossible to evaluate lol
14:39:38 <hellmonk> but if riposte is going to exist it probably should not depend at all on those things, since they are extremely opaque
14:39:56 <hellmonk> it also depends on how often the monster casts spells, since you can't riposte a non-melee action
14:40:22 <rumflump> so wait, a hydra is making one attack that hits multiple times, but executioners actually make multiple individual attacks?
14:40:35 <hellmonk> hope you memorized the frost giant cast rate
14:41:37 <minmay> rumflump: how PF phrased it is misleading
14:41:38 <MarvinPA> rumflump: executioner was a slightly misleading example, a better comparison would be something like "hydra vs hasted thing that just has one attack"
14:41:41 <hellmonk> I believe it steps through a whole monster turn, however many attacks it gets, and you can retaliate once, then if it gets another turn you can retaliate again?
14:41:48 <minmay> yes
14:41:55 <hellmonk> so you can multi-riposte executioners bc theyre fast
14:41:57 <minmay> also, difference between bad mechanic and flawed mechanic
14:41:59 <rumflump> ahhh
14:42:11 <minmay> flawed mechanic: https://i.redd.it/n57v70kcjbkx.jpg
14:42:15 <hellmonk> but hydras are doing one melee action and hitting you with 4-8 attacks in that one action
14:42:19 <minmay> bad mechanic: http://i.imgur.com/OZ7o86N.jpg
14:42:33 <hellmonk> executioners get like 3 attacks or sth too
14:42:44 <hellmonk> in their turn
14:43:22 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-1086-g4bd2f5b: Fill in gaps in chequers_guarded_unrand_mask_of_the_dragon (#11043) 10(69 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4bd2f5be180f
14:54:49 <minmay> thing that's no fun to implement but someone should probably do it: convert death channel to a fineff
14:55:47 <minmay> you can kill something with fireball or any bolt and the fireball/bolt hits the spectral thing too
14:55:51 <MarvinPA> i think i looked into doing that when i did it for infestation but it's harder because it has to actually keep track of what the dead monster originally was
14:55:56 <MarvinPA> so i gave up and didn't
14:56:33 <MarvinPA> but yeah, should be a thing
14:59:45 <minmay> yeah, hence the "no fun" comment
15:00:47 <minmay> someone on tavern brought it up w.r.t. ignition and i panicked for 0.5 seconds before remembering that it happens with almost every spell in the game
15:06:28 <hellmonk> minqmay: do you know if riposte can activate if a confused ally tries to melee you
15:06:38 <hellmonk> I am assuming no but I don't see a separate commit for that
15:07:12 <minmay> not offhand
15:07:25 <MarvinPA> probably not since it's based on headbutt and that checks alignment
15:07:29 <hellmonk> thanks
15:08:33 -!- yesno__ is now known as yesno
15:09:22 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-1086-g4bd2f5b (34)
15:09:42 <hellmonk> I think it can still activate berserkitis and *rage, maybe I should mention that
15:11:09 <MarvinPA> i vaguely recall that being intentional but that's a whole weird thing since it does explicitly avoid chopping hydra heads
15:12:02 <MarvinPA> should probably be consistent one way or the other
15:16:17 <hellmonk> how does riposte interact with constriction damage
15:16:43 <hellmonk> I guess the implications are small enough that I can just ignore it and let someone else bring it up
15:17:25 <minmay> it doesn't
15:17:30 <hellmonk> ok
15:18:31 <minmay> not really sure how it could, either
15:22:19 <rumflump> ??falchion
15:22:19 <Sequell> falchion[1/2]: (long blades; +2 acc / 7 dam / 1.3 base delay / 0.6 min delay). A long single-edged sword with a slightly curved blade.
18:04:22 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.20-a0-1086-g4bd2f5b (34)
18:12:55 -!- Zeor1 is now known as Zeor
21:05:47 <advil> huh, it appears that webtiles crashes on load if there are enough messages during the load process to force a more
21:05:59 <advil> which of course mostly just happens in debug contexts
21:10:45 <minmay> and the rcfile with all the anime stuff
21:13:13 <advil> does that actually crash?
21:13:20 <advil> it probably depends on where in the load process the messaging is
21:13:36 <advil> if enough of the player is filled in to send the player's json, it's probably ok
21:14:16 <minmay> i dont think it crashes i was just joking
21:14:21 <minmay> ??crawl players[7
21:14:21 <Sequell> crawl players[7/12]: <xFleury> &watch mnoleg69reagan42 <Sequell> No milestones for mnoleg69reagan42. <mnoleg69reagan42> dude i'm mnoleg69reagan420 <mnoleg69reagan42> irc cuts off the last character
21:14:24 <minmay> ??crawl players[6
21:14:25 <Sequell> http://dobrazupa.org/rcfiles/crawl-git/ScarletJ.rc
21:15:25 <advil> wow
21:15:46 <minmay> would an rcfile with lots of errors cause this crash?
21:16:16 <advil> rip strawberries
21:16:38 <advil> it might? I think anything outside of tags.cc is likely to be ok though
21:23:19 <advil> is there a way to check if someone is running a USE_TILE_WEB build from console only?
21:23:28 <hellmonk> !lg mnoleg69reagan420
21:23:29 <Sequell> 3. mnoleg69reagan420 the Ruffian (L5 GhMo), blasted by an orc priest (divine providence) on D:4 on 2014-08-15 15:16:47, with 205 points after 3205 turns and 0:09:43.
21:23:43 <hellmonk> what a disgraceful account
21:23:49 <hellmonk> !lg dickylongcocking
21:23:52 <Sequell> 4787. dickylongcocking the Magician (L1 OpWz), slain by a dart slug on D:1 on 2017-03-28 21:38:12, with 0 points after 39 turns and 0:00:06.
21:59:45 <|amethyst> advil:  if (!tiles.is_controlled_from_web())
22:00:03 <|amethyst> advil:  but of course there might be tiles observers
22:02:19 <|amethyst> advil:  (that needs to be in an #ifdef USE_TILE_WEB; alternatively, you can use is_tiles(), which does the same thing but also works under local tiles (returns true) and true console builds (returns false)
22:02:23 <|amethyst> )
22:03:20 <advil> thanks, yeah, I found is_tiles
22:03:46 <advil> hmm, I have no idea how observers even work
22:03:57 <advil> do they have a separate crawl process?
22:04:00 <|amethyst> no
22:04:22 <|amethyst> webtiles observers:
22:04:48 <|amethyst> run the same client as webtiles players, just without sending input
22:05:04 <advil> ah
22:05:39 <|amethyst> the webtiles server knows who is playing/listening which game, and duplicates the json output of the crawl process to all those clients
22:07:00 <|amethyst> console observers just tail -f the ttyrec, essentially
22:07:01 <advil> oh I see what you meant -- if someone is playing from console, and there are webtiles spectators, does is_tiles() return true?
22:07:11 <|amethyst> advil:  it returns false
22:07:15 <advil> ok
22:08:11 <advil> spectators shouldn't really matter for the thing I'm trying to fix
22:08:44 <|amethyst> ah; I meant that e.g. you shouldn't use that to decide to defer a redraw, because that could lead to observers seeing the wrong thing
22:11:04 <advil> to fix the crash I just noticed I wanted to disable more while loading, but I was trying to see if I could do that only for the tiles client (since the crash is only if it tries to send json too early)
22:12:13 <advil> hm
22:12:46 <advil> I don't know what it would do if someone started spectating when it was at a more that was before the player json was ready to send
22:12:55 <advil> probably crash
22:22:28 <advil> ERROR in 'output.cc' at line 1087: misaligned HUD (is 18, should be -1)
22:23:21 <advil> from smallterm :D
22:28:19 <advil> maybe that's only a local console crash, can't get it on cbro
22:29:40 <advil> oh, it's an assert that's only checked in debug mode
22:30:11 <advil> maybe
22:39:43 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/529 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/529
22:39:43 <Cheibriados> 03Diego Essaya02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/529 * 0.20-a0-1087-gd19c9a7: SDL Tiles: Don't disable screen saver 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d19c9a739513
22:48:14 <minmay> !messages
22:48:15 <Sequell> No messages for minmay.
22:55:31 <gammafunk> !tell minqmay It sounds like you're trying to show me elf fan service but I don't trust your judgement
22:55:32 <Sequell> gammafunk: OK, I'll let minqmay know.
23:10:08 <advil> that PR seems like a good idea
23:10:17 <advil> I guess maybe it could be an option?
23:14:14 <minmay> !tell gammafunk It's not tremendously erotic or anything, I just thought it was funny
23:14:14 <Sequell> minmay: OK, I'll let gammafunk know.
23:16:24 <Doesnty> so i'm looking at veh logic
23:17:03 <Doesnty> it looks like he will never offer a spell you have, and tries to avoid giving spells you have just seen
23:17:07 <hellmonk> is someone finally going to buff veh
23:17:10 <Doesnty> but will give a spell you've seen in a book
23:17:16 <Doesnty> if he has no other choice
23:17:42 <Doesnty> same for spells veh has offered before
23:32:10 <Doesnty> ok at least something good came of me procrastinating on goldified books spell sorting for a month
23:48:53 <hellmonk> 26 files changed, 19 insertions(+), 181 deletions(-)
23:48:59 <hellmonk> now thats how you do a spicy commit
23:49:07 <hellmonk> reeeeeeeemove everything
23:53:12 <gammafunk> only 181 lines removed?
23:53:12 <Sequell> gammafunk: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.