00:03:07 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-1017-gc3250ce (34) 00:30:37 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 00:35:54 so was anyone ever going to fix the zin/newmut interaction 00:36:19 (ie the inability to cure mutations with zin without blowing your one time ability) 00:39:17 just scum hell effects for tmut miscasts 00:49:55 minmay: the players really love it: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/205316046230388737/303029091249029120/unknown.png 00:51:00 too bad kramin isn't around 00:51:08 he'd be hype for any vault named after grids 00:57:08 I figured someone else was gonna make an encompass one if I didn't 00:57:23 Do these people like...not see that the downstairs exist 00:58:37 lol 00:58:56 Also man, when is crawl going to get better blood tiles 00:58:59 Those just look like tomato sauce 00:59:33 And the stack indicator still isn't fixed!!! 01:01:46 Oh I guess it has, it just looks kinda goofy in the first place and the screenshot is scaled down 01:06:57 Alright, getting this as the cert on port 80: http://puu.sh/vlJqd/d295d5b18b.png but getting active content cert errors, and then when i go to port 8081 for crawl games i get a different cert somehow 01:08:20 Hashmark in default ancestor name 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11016 by astronautguy 01:11:43 ZiBuDo: isn't the ssl cert specified in the webtiles config as well 01:12:26 !source config.py:103 01:12:27 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/webserver/config.py#L103 01:12:34 ZiBuDo: do you have that configured in your template? 01:12:44 your template config, that is 01:12:59 in config.py i got it pointing to updated ssl certs on my server 01:13:30 hrm, but those certs are in the chroot, right 01:13:36 how do you share those between your normal http server and the chroot? 01:13:40 yup both chroot and regular server 01:13:47 ok 01:13:51 both have a /var/www 01:14:41 yeah seems to be the same old cert 01:15:37 ZiBuDo: you said point, but you mean you actually copy the files to the chroot? 01:15:46 yea they are copied 01:15:48 hrm 01:15:58 very odd that it would serve a different cert 01:16:13 I mean, if there's only one location and you overwrite it 01:16:20 it seems that somehow...well, wait 01:16:24 did you restart webtiles? 01:16:30 I guess you would have 01:16:56 and maybe this doesn't matter; since you're updating those certs continuously 01:17:21 I am gonna do a file search to find potentiall another place maybe 01:18:17 nah i've replaced all jorgrun certs on this server, idk where it's getting the old cert from 01:18:22 yeah it's weird 01:18:56 is the regular site working for you? 01:18:56 somehow it's still serving out that old cert 01:18:59 yeah 01:19:05 the home page with music 01:19:09 mhm 01:19:17 but the webtiles link gets me the ssl error 01:19:20 cuz that's port 80, and port 8081 has same settings as 80 01:19:27 point to same certs 01:19:44 i've tried reloading apache, restarting tiles 01:19:48 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.20-a0-1018-ge435b50: Make a funny name slightly less so (11016) 10(28 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e435b50518bc 01:20:00 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1017-gc3250ce (34) 01:21:31 oh 01:21:37 now hom page gives me bad ssl cert? 01:21:52 hm, nm 01:21:54 yea i got that too, but its not bad ssl cert 01:21:58 it's some weird error 01:22:21 seems to be carrying over the state from when I had chrom accept the 8081 cert 01:22:28 but incognito window and homepage is fine 01:22:55 ah kk 01:23:04 so if we get 8081 to work that wont happen 01:23:37 I'm not sure if you're experiencing the same problem I had; my problem was just I went back to home page through back button 01:23:51 and it still listed the ssl cert as bad (little cross mark through https) 01:24:22 I had accepted the cert regardless of the error, and when you do that chrome allows the page to load, but shows a red mark through the 'https' in the url 01:25:05 I think we doing the same thing 01:25:18 welp, no idea how that old cert is getting served out 01:25:22 maybe |amethyst will have an idea 01:26:34 my notes for ssl only really mention http://puu.sh/vlKce/f768b4f86f.png and that i had to have the cert and key in a certain order which i've replicated 01:27:50 hrm 01:27:54 those notes are a bit weird 01:27:57 why does it say 01:28:09 "create directory www/crawl_ssl" 01:28:12 in the chroot 01:28:19 then have you point ot /var/ww/crawl_ssl 01:28:22 *www 01:28:58 was that "create directory" statement meaning "/var/www/crawl_ssl" ? 01:29:21 the notes were to set up the server, but yea basically have a var/www/crawl_ssl in both the chroot and on the server 01:29:43 yeah I'm talking about the chroot though 01:29:51 yea i just was lazy with notes 01:29:51 the notes imply use of two different dirs in the chroot 01:29:53 ok 01:29:56 lol 01:30:51 I dunno, if you can verify that the two sets of files are identical between chroot and actual filesystem 01:31:01 it shouldn't be able to cert out a stale file 01:31:07 s/cert/serve/ 01:31:33 unless there's something else going on in terms of some kind of proxy or something 01:32:30 got it 01:32:35 i got memed on 01:32:48 thanks for the help ! 01:33:05 the solution was when i copied it to the chroot, i got a permisison denied in my ftp and didnt realize 01:33:07 lol 01:33:31 if you go incognito it will work now 01:36:57 using ftp in 2017 01:37:02 you got memed indeed 01:37:34 I hope that's actually sftp or something xD 01:38:23 ZiBuDo: yeah, I dunno if you had shell access or whatnot, but you probably want to use diff on two files if you want to make sure they're identical 01:38:30 however even the file sizes or something would have been different 01:40:56 it is sftp lmao, who has time to put an s infront of ftp tho tbh 01:41:22 i do have shell access and just didnt realize i had been memed 01:43:34 wow 01:43:41 has time to capitalise his name like that 01:43:44 not to type an 's' 01:43:49 I see what's going on here 01:59:28 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1018-ge435b50 02:10:05 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-1018-ge435b50 (34) 02:53:01 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1018-ge435b50 03:12:41 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1018-ge435b50 (34) 03:50:04 -!- topota is now known as quik 03:51:32 -!- Guest41717 is now known as quik2 03:53:30 -!- quik2 is now known as quik 05:30:07 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 05:59:06 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 08:05:52 <|amethyst> ~!tell MarvinPA you can fix the cursed Holy Wrath thing more simply (just two lines of code) by removing the curse in end_weapon_brand 08:05:55 <|amethyst> !tell MarvinPA you can fix the cursed Holy Wrath thing more simply (just two lines of code) by removing the curse in end_weapon_brand 08:05:56 |amethyst: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 11:51:04 So a few tavern posters have raised a good point about the problems with the monk background, specifically that it sets you up for an awful D:1 experience. 11:53:14 The background seems to be about flexibility and delayed gratification, so I'm thinking that it might be interesting to: 1) give the start a weapon, maybe a club, 2) generalize the skills a bit (say, 1-2 level in all melee weapon skills?), and/or 3) give the background +1/2 to all stats. 11:53:36 that way you don't have a totally miserable start, but does have an incentive to branch out quickly 11:53:49 and you get a reward for a somewhat rough D:1 11:56:55 !tell gammafunk the +1 leather armour of the Moon Trool {rC- Regen+ Dex+7} -- not how I remember that unrand 11:56:55 Lasty: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 12:00:18 Lastysomebody suggested giving monks good -defensive- skills 12:00:23 but no/few offensive 12:00:35 like 4 fighting 4 dodge 12:00:37 or something 12:01:01 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: that's what they have now 12:01:01 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: 4 fighting 4 dodging 4 stealth 12:22:36 yeah, that's the present situation, and it makes for very weak characters until they get a weapon 12:22:48 and they may not be able to get one without kililng a monster, which they have no ability to do 12:23:09 amethyst: since it's just for ash interaction, i think it's probably vaguely better to go for the more complicated approach since this way you're prevented from wasting ?rcurse 12:23:09 MarvinPA: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:23:12 |amethyst: any opinion re: what I suggested above? 12:23:21 hellmonk: or you? 12:23:39 I wasnt in here for the suggestion 12:23:42 oops missed an | but yeah 12:23:50 we are discussing new monk? 12:23:51 hellmonk: that's what logs are for! :D 12:23:53 yes 12:24:04 "The background seems to be about flexibility and delayed gratification, so I'm thinking that it might be interesting to: 1) give the start a weapon, maybe a club, 2) generalize the skills a bit (say, 1-2 level in all melee weapon skills?), and/or 3) give the background +1/2 to all stats." 12:26:55 I don't think that the stats angle works if you are trying to fix their D:1, but it is at least somewhat interesting to have monk make you better later in a permanent way 12:27:28 hellmonk: the club and weapon skills are to make D:1 better; the stats are to make the background differenty 12:27:39 oh, you meant like all 3 at once 12:27:53 well, the club and also the second or third or both 12:27:53 thought they were being considered individually, mb 12:27:56 ah, gotcha 12:28:06 I felt like the club was sort of "minimum viable" 12:28:17 and the other two would each individually or in tandem create something interesting 12:28:26 i mean it's already distinguished by the piety, surely 12:28:32 unless this is supposed to be replacing that entirely 12:28:40 MarvinPA: it is, and no it's not meant to replace 12:28:41 I think the two big problems with mo are the D:1 is unbearable and it still plays like a bad gl afterward, unless you find a game-dominating god early 12:29:00 MarvinPA: I think the god just needs more than it gets right now 12:29:01 but the second part has been true of every iteration of mo that I have been around to play 12:29:04 giving it a bunch of weird things at once seems like it goes back to exactly what the old problems with it were 12:29:35 MarvinPA: what were the old problems? I thought they were 1) bad start and 2) insufficient flexibility 12:29:42 where it was bonus piety, but also for some reason you can start with a qstaff when nobody else can! or whatever 12:29:56 if you are ok with mo still playing like a bad gl then giving club + stats would be ok (though club flavor is weird) 12:30:16 MarvinPA: sure, but in that case the problem is that QS is better than other starting weapons, even the weapons for "good weapon" starts 12:30:20 right/ 12:30:21 ? 12:30:38 the problem is doing a bunch of unrelated things 12:30:39 hellmonk: I thought club was better flavor than dagger, but dagger is fine w/ me too 12:30:48 although the qstaff in particular was also a problem for that reason, yes 12:30:51 what we should do is, make a worse staff weapon, maybe just called a "staff" 12:31:02 MarvinPA: IMO it's related by the concept of "generalist" 12:31:08 generalized weapon skills runs into the same trap as the current situation where you feel like you save exp by not taking a weapon skill until you find something good but actually you're just making your character worse 12:31:31 Bonus stats, bonus piety, low but wide weapon skills -- all support making choices later 12:31:32 it does make them better at early weapon swapping, but that is something that ime you do even less than taking a D:2-D:3 altar 12:31:49 which is where the monk piety bonus actually does something important 12:32:28 hellmonk: IMO the "I don't want to invest in starting weapon" thing isn't a problem per se, it's just bad skilling; that said, investing in a starting club isn't bad, since M&F is a decent investment skill. 12:32:38 yeah 12:33:32 I am only mentioning it bc of that one guy on tavern who is insisting that its a good idea 12:33:38 to not take weapon skill 12:33:41 ah, haha 12:33:41 yeah 12:33:51 tavern has been on a roll recently 12:34:45 in any case, club is bad enough that you would probably swap skills if you find any decent non-mace on D:1 so it would at least avoid the problem of forcing players to go maces 12:34:56 yeah 12:35:28 still not sure that mo avoids playing like gladiator but worse though (again, ignoring the times you get a game-dominating god on D:2 or w/e) 12:35:44 normal weapon choice still sounds better than that to me 12:36:10 in that it's a bunch less weird and probably doesn't change things a whole lot either way otherwise 12:36:45 lasty: instead of a club you could give them unarmed combat skill :^) 12:36:46 MarvinPA: it sounds like that's a vote for reverting the recent monk changes? 12:36:48 hellmonk: haha 12:36:58 hellmonk: I'd be fine w/ giving them a choice of dagger, club, and UC :D 12:37:13 truly the greatest weapon selection of all 12:37:15 reverting would be my preferred option out of those that have been discussed so far, for sure 12:37:56 tbh I don't think that old monk is in a good spot if the goal is to differentiate it from gl, but it is at least less miserable and more intuitive to play 12:38:29 maybe "gl but worse and with a piety gimmick" is good enough for a background 12:39:11 i don't really have a big problem with the "bad gl but with piety" version yeah, or at least i prefer it to the current thing 12:39:20 it's not like fi and gl really play all that differently either, for the most part 12:40:26 I would also prefer it to the current thing 12:40:39 how about bad gl with piety and slightly improved stats? 12:40:41 [tabstorm voice] there's only so many ways, to tab things 12:41:26 what if you got 3 stars of piety instead of 2 12:41:36 2* is like... a floor's worth 12:41:44 for most gods 12:41:59 03advil02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/513 * 0.20-a0-1003-g533f93b: Remove linearity breakpoint for raw fail rate 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/533f93b3c87c 12:42:00 03advil02 07[remove_chance_breaks] * 0.20-a0-1003-g533f93b: Remove linearity breakpoint for raw fail rate 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/533f93b3c87c 12:42:08 I don't think it changes your decisions, but that would make mo a bit better if you're taking a non-top-3 god 12:42:41 Lasty: i mean it kinda already has that over gl, in that you get more dex and int at least 12:42:54 I guess maybe you would be more willing to go on an average god early 12:42:55 not really a fan of it giving more total stats 12:44:59 MarvinPA: because it's poorly communicated, because backgrounds should all have the same stat total, or another reason? 12:45:06 are there any gods that you feel give a really critical survivability boost at *** as opposed to ** though? 12:45:14 hellmonk: lugonu 12:45:35 how often are you taking lugonu on a monk though 12:45:36 keeping all backgrounds at the same stat total seems probably better than not doing, unless there's an especially good reason for it which i don't think this would be 12:45:56 hellmonk: EVERY TIME. Master strat 12:46:37 ok, I will remember that the true optimal way to play new monk is to reroll for an early distortion dagger and then self banish 12:47:17 hellmonk: i was thinking more that it would put you closer to 6* 12:47:30 ??piety stars 12:47:30 I don't have a page labeled piety_stars in my learndb. 12:47:33 ??piety 12:47:33 piety[1/6]: With your current god, you have a piety number nominally from 1-200. If your piety reaches 0, you are excommunicated. piety[2] describes piety and penance. piety[3] describes piety growth in general. piety[4] describes piety growth for each god. piety[5] describes uses of piety. 12:47:34 sure 12:47:47 ??piety[2] 12:47:47 piety[2/6]: When you gain piety, first try to deduct as many points of penance. Failing that, deduct that many points from the gift timeout. Failing that, or 1/4 chance if gift timeout was reduced, you either get a {god gift} or piety, depending on randomness, your god, and your current piety. 12:48:03 it puts you more ahead, but the times where mo's piety gimmick really matters now are the ones where you are taking something with tangible immediate impact 12:48:04 whatever, 2* is "not a lot" 12:48:24 it usually doesn't matter if you hit 6* on lair:2 or lair:5 or orc:2 12:48:39 whereas it matters a whole lot if you hit 2* fedhas on D:2 as opposed to D:4 12:48:54 (really 1* but you know what I mean) 12:49:10 i mean, for fedhas yes 12:49:30 but for other gods the good stuff starts at like... 4* 12:50:04 right now the mo piety boost feels kinda negligible 12:50:11 well, normally when you join a god you join at ......; starting at * or greater is much better. 12:50:23 The fact that it's ** instead of * doesn't usually matter much 12:52:08 I think that players will probably feel that it's more significant than it actually is, so it might make monk's gimmick stand out more 12:52:27 2* seems totally fine to me, i'd still like to continue to slow down piety gain generally really 12:52:46 increasing piety decay seems like a good way to do that 12:52:47 so that would also make getting a bunch of it immediately more noticeable, seems better than handing out even more 12:52:51 it is a pretty minor buff most of the time, but that's fine, I wouldn't really object to it, just curious what the rationale was 13:04:28 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-1018-ge435b50 (34) 13:06:13 anyway if it comes to a vote or whatever my vote is to revert, maybe try to change it again next version if people want to 13:08:12 next version will be in the future and we can give monks laser guns 13:08:51 dcss 0.20xx 13:09:32 start them with a scroll of silence (vow of silence) and a legendary deck with a single tomb card (so you can pray in isolation) 13:31:39 another monk idea: if the player is pacifist until they join a religion, they get 4 stars instead of 2. 13:32:45 or, going further with that, the more experience they gain before getting a god, the less piety they start with. 13:34:54 avoid killing anything until D:2. join trog. Trog loves me extra because I haven't killed anything yet. 13:34:58 I have flavor questions 13:36:19 in any case I think that not getting exp is bad enough that you wouldn't want to avoid gaining exp, it's just a more complicated version of "you get more bonus piety if you take a god on an earlier floor" 13:37:01 but since you have longer to gain piety with a god you take earlier, you already want to do that a lot of the time 13:38:28 (not to mention you get to cash in on the background's benefit earlier, which is a big deal) 13:45:56 flavor-wise, it's just "i'll only kill in your name" and "i'm worthier than your direct acolytes because i put myself in real danger". 13:46:23 i do agree with your point on exp. 13:46:58 ok, that flavor makes more sense I guess 13:47:03 didn't think about that 13:49:24 i figured the formula for it would be exponential(?), where it'd quickly drop from 4 to 3 stars at small exp, and then 3 to 2 if they're playing normally. 13:50:13 it'd basically be using the 3 piety star system that was suggested but adding a small conduct reward 13:51:31 really, i just like the idea of stealthy monks, hehehe 14:59:37 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 16:32:23 Lasty: just be glad is wasn't Moon Drool leather armor! very bad! 16:38:16 that sounds uncomfortable 17:32:18 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 18:03:34 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.20-a0-1018-ge435b50 (34) 18:21:03 New branch created: pull/517 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/517 18:21:03 03Floodkiller02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/517 * 0.20-a0-1019-g0167ef1: Update Haste spell description. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0167ef1fc4b0 19:07:12 -!- Dracunos_ is now known as Dracunos 19:39:20 -!- Enthusiasm_ is now known as Enthusiasm 22:31:07 Any makefile experts in here? 22:32:01 sort of 22:32:44 Hopefully an easy question..I'm trying to compile crawl on a server that I don't have access to updating gcc on (the version on the server is 4.4.7) 22:33:05 -!- Walker_Z is now known as WalkerBoh 22:34:06 So I downloaded the latest version of gcc and compiled it locally to my account but it still is having issues in compiling (I'd have thought that updating gcc would have fixed it and it made me wonder if I didn't completely update the makefile) 22:34:14 The error seems to be related to c++11 not being recognized: 22:34:24 New branch created: pull/518 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/518 22:34:24 03Floodkiller02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/518 * 0.20-a0-1019-g2ffb4cb: Add new L7 Charms spell, Overwhelming Strike 10(2 hours ago, 13 files, 79+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2ffb4cb5b177 22:34:40 In file included from tool/tile.cc:1: 22:34:40 tool/tile.h:13: error: ‘nullptr’ was not declared in this scope 22:34:58 <|amethyst> espais: gcc 4.4 is too old 22:35:03 it should be sufficient to either make sure $PATH gets the correct one, or use FORCE_CC / FORCE_CXX 22:35:04 <|amethyst> espais: we support back to 4.7 22:35:12 <|amethyst> oh, sorry, misread 22:35:12 yes, they said they installed a new one but it apparently isn;t being used 22:35:37 #CC = $(GCC) 22:35:37 CC = /mnt/home/espais/DCSS_GA/libs/build/bin/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc-6.3.0 22:35:55 <|amethyst> espais: did you change CXX too? 22:36:09 <|amethyst> oh 22:36:15 that doesnt affect everything, there's also a subdirectory makefile that would need to be patched 22:36:24 <|amethyst> if it's in tool/ it uses HOSTCC 22:36:27 <|amethyst> not CC 22:36:31 <|amethyst> (and HOSTCXX) 22:36:37 easier touse FORCE_CC / FORCE_CXX, it gets everything 22:36:48 <|amethyst> yeah 22:37:05 <|amethyst> mae FORCE_CXX=/mnt/home/espais/DCSS_GA/libs/build/bin/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-g++-6.3.0 FORCE_CC=/mnt/home/espais/DCSS_GA/libs/build/bin/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-gcc-6.3.0 22:37:07 cxx would be g++ though? 22:37:08 <|amethyst> s/mae/make/ 22:37:09 and yes, trying to override CC or CXX the normal way is a short path ot a headache 22:37:24 espais, crawl is mostly c++ 22:37:35 you want to override both 22:37:59 gotcha 22:38:09 so the FORCE_CXX line...newline in the main Makefile? 22:38:23 I do it on the command line, although you could put it in the makefile 22:38:34 oh mae -> make 22:38:38 <|amethyst> yeah 22:38:39 if you don't mind having to deal with local changes when pulling updates 22:38:49 don;t mind us, neither of ys can type :p 22:39:02 (as I demonstrate...) 22:39:48 <|amethyst> if you did edit the makefile, you'd need to set FORCE_CC and FORCE_CXX above the lines where they're used; but setting them from the command line is, as geekosaur points out, less of a pain when you update 22:40:17 well gotten farther than i have before 22:40:34 now missing some libraries, which i think i should be able to figure out :) 22:40:52 this feels weird...i transitioned over to python for the past few years and my c++ game is horribly rusty 22:42:15 hopefully silly question 22:42:50 getting version `CXXABI_1.3.8' not found and version `GLIBCXX_3.4.21' not found, i assume that just needs to be pointed at the new version of gcc/g++ as well via the command line? 22:42:55 or do i need to update my LD_LIBRARY_PATH 22:43:08 the latter 22:43:23 it means it found the wrong version of the libstdc++ library 22:45:11 gotcha 22:45:21 love using shared compute clusters with no root access ;) 22:45:31 seems to be building now, thanks all 22:46:15 very happy its summertime again...i work at a university and all my wonderful dreams of building a genetic algorithm-driven crawl bot went out the window when grading was necessary 22:50:12 hope you all have a wonderful evening 23:17:45 my evening is going...eh 23:38:17 hi again...quick q...is there a way to enable a ttyrec either in an rc file or in the command line? i didn't notice it documented 23:42:07 ttyrecs are handled by dgl for console and by the python seb framework for webtiles 23:42:10 *web framework 23:42:34 i see, so no real option for local-only? 23:44:01 script -c crawl -q ttyrec 23:44:39 the problem is that webtiles ttyrecs are made by activating the console mode with output redirected; for console, the console mode is already in use so it can't make a ttyrec at the same time 23:45:02 (this is a bit of a hack, but the alternative is to duplicate all the console output code) 23:46:06 (you might need to check which "script" command you have; some of them would want: script-f ttyrec -q crawl) 23:46:24 er, space before -f 23:49:15 gotcha, thanks 23:59:50 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-1018-ge435b50 (34)