00:00:04 <advil> at least it seemed to work, I only tested that one very slightly
00:18:22 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.20-a0-996-g8fa4f26: Fix a false assumption 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8fa4f26d0778
00:19:59 <hellmonk> a powerful argument for the removal of monster invis
00:21:33 <advil> |amethyst: I don't suppose you're around
00:21:54 <rumflump> less-human-like species seem to get sinv commonly. just keep adding semi-animal species until sinv is the default
00:23:44 <advil> because I'm going to have to revert some things if I can't decode these error messages
00:23:49 <advil> it compiles fine for me locally :-(
00:25:40 <|amethyst> advil:  you need to inherit from std::iterator<foo> if you want to use std algorithms
00:25:52 <advil> oh
00:25:59 <|amethyst> advil:  see for example  stack_iterator  (in items.h)
00:27:20 <advil> wonder why it works for me
00:28:12 <|amethyst> different STL implementations
00:28:34 <|amethyst> the failing builds (so far) are using clang
00:29:03 <advil> it looked like it failed for both in the test I looked at
00:29:06 <advil> similar error messages
00:29:12 <|amethyst> oh, you're right
00:29:26 <advil> I'm just going to back off to a for loop for now, so that I can go to sleep
00:31:35 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-993-gba41c3c (34)
00:31:56 <advil> thanks
00:35:48 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.20-a0-997-g5e58985: Fix the build 10(78 seconds ago, 1 file, 20+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5e58985c2b25
01:02:58 <CanOfWorms> ??bultungin
01:02:58 <Sequell> Bultungin[1/3]: Hyena-headed humanoids. Their aptitudes start out at +4 in all skills, and after the skill is level 7, quickly decrease to -6 when the skill is level 11.
01:03:00 <CanOfWorms> ??bultungin[2
01:03:00 <Sequell> Bultungin[2/3]: Bultungins also have see invisible, fangs 1, and can detect any items within 7 tiles with their strong nose. Base stats of 7 STR/8 INT/9 DEX with increases of sid/5, +2 MR/level, and baseline XP/HP/MP values.
01:03:02 <CanOfWorms> ??bultungin[3
01:03:03 <Sequell> Bultungin[3/3]: They start out with an effective aptitude of +4 for all skills until skill level 7 for each skill. After that, their aptitude for that skill reduces by 2 for each skill level, with a floor of -6 at skill level 11.
01:03:32 <CanOfWorms> !learn add bultungin http://i.imgur.com/QjZ27rt.jpg
01:03:33 <Sequell> Bultungin[4/4]: http://i.imgur.com/QjZ27rt.jpg
01:06:10 <minmay> 1learn add bultungin https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/68/69/e3/6869e3714bed60e8dd4063a9504e8fe4.jpg
01:10:43 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-997-g5e58985 (34)
01:54:46 <gammafunk> furries are gross
02:08:13 <nikheizen> learn add minmay
02:16:27 <minmay> imo furries are unfairly maligned
02:17:17 <minmay> gammafunk, whats your standard on horrendously reaching puns in vault names
02:18:27 <gammafunk> you ask me that after submitting "coctagon"?
02:18:50 <minmay> thats not an especially far-reaching pun
02:19:06 <gammafunk> it just shows that no true principles exist
02:19:34 <minmay> even crawl itself abbreviates cocytus to Coc sometimes
02:19:58 <minmay> it leads into "octagon" so naturally
02:20:25 <gammafunk> that vault name is probably the only true dick joke in crawl
02:20:30 <nikheizen> this is like when the cdda devs tried to convince me that the "vibrator" is just a "massage tool"
02:20:49 <minmay> well, what I really wanted to do is point out that "ultimate_mussel_roller" is now in sequell's database, and there's nothing you can do about it, no amount of commits will change that
02:21:00 <minmay> It wasn't even supposed to be a dick joke!
02:21:18 <minmay> !lg * kmap~~mussel
02:21:19 <Sequell> 1. nikopol the Spear-Bearer (L10 GrBe of Trog), slain by a six-headed hydra (kmap: minmay_the_grid_octo_triangle; minmay_the_grid_octo_prize_ultimate_mussel_roller) on D:8 on 2017-04-09 16:39:37, with 4883 points after 7484 turns and 0:14:09.
02:21:38 <gammafunk> you know Brannock doesn't read things carefully sometimes
02:23:52 <nikheizen> i thought he was a console player
02:24:17 <minmay> I only ever made 1 dick joke vault and I never submitted it
02:24:21 <nikheizen> !lg brannock s=tiles
02:24:22 <Sequell> 1757 games for brannock: 1122x true, 635x false
02:24:30 <nikheizen> !lg brannock s=tiles recent
02:24:31 <Sequell> 210 games for brannock (recent): 210x true
02:24:39 <nikheizen> wow
02:25:25 <minmay> specifically this one https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=15447
02:26:18 <minmay> gammafunk, my only real regret is that it doesn't look all that much like a mussel
02:57:17 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
03:20:15 <Eksell> Meriados (L19 DgVM) ASSERT(!invalid_monster(&mons)) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 1887 failed. (Elf:2)
03:21:36 <Eksell> Meriados (L19 DgVM) ASSERT(!invalid_monster(&mons)) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 1887 failed. (Elf:2)
03:24:54 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-997-g5e58985 (34)
03:26:31 <Eksell> Meriados (L19 DgVM) ASSERT(!invalid_monster(&mons)) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 1887 failed. (Elf:3)
03:30:11 <Eksell> Meriados (L19 DgVM) ASSERT(!invalid_monster(&mons)) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 1887 failed. (Elf:3)
03:30:50 <Eksell> Meriados (L19 DgVM) ASSERT(!invalid_monster(&mons)) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 1887 failed. (Elf:3)
03:33:29 <Eksell> Meriados (L19 DgVM) ASSERT(!invalid_monster(&mons)) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 1887 failed. (Elf:3)
03:34:52 <Eksell> Meriados (L19 DgVM) ASSERT(!invalid_monster(&mons)) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 1887 failed. (Elf:3)
03:37:30 <Eksell> Meriados (L19 DgVM) ASSERT(!invalid_monster(&mons)) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 1887 failed. (Elf:3)
03:38:42 <Eksell> Meriados (L19 DgVM) ASSERT(!invalid_monster(&mons)) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 1887 failed. (Elf:3)
04:08:12 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
04:16:53 -!- diphenhydramine is now known as Euph0ria
08:46:39 <advil> !crashlog
08:46:40 <Sequell> 16835. Meriados, XL19 DgVM, T:63256 (milestone): http://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/Meriados/crash-Meriados-20170411-073821.txt
08:54:34 <advil> I think it's when you kill a summoned monster and the summoner at the same time with ignite poison
08:54:38 <advil> I just managed to replicate it once
08:57:22 <|amethyst> advil: _ignite_poison_monsters checks for no monster (mon == nullptr) but not a dead monster
08:57:33 <|amethyst> advil:  so probably the summons are being double-killed
08:57:42 <advil> monster_die seems to get called after the monster has disappeared in a puff of smoke
08:57:48 <|amethyst> that mon == nullptr should probably be invalid_monster(mon)
08:57:52 <advil> yeah
08:57:55 <advil> that's what monster_die uses
09:02:26 <advil> hmm that didn't fix it
09:12:44 <|amethyst> oh
09:12:52 <|amethyst> invalid_monster also doesn't check for life
09:13:24 <advil> huh...but then why does monster_die crash on that assert?
09:15:16 <|amethyst> hmm
09:15:27 <|amethyst> why is it calling monster_die anyway?
09:15:42 <|amethyst> this is specifically when the monster was already killed by hurt
09:15:46 <|amethyst> which already called monster_die
09:15:58 <|amethyst> because we passed the default cleanup_dead = true
09:16:00 <advil> yeah, I'm a little confused
09:16:14 <advil> I'm just checking exactly what monster_die is called on when right now
09:18:55 <|amethyst> it's been like this for a while
09:19:03 <|amethyst> %git 6b64c94a
09:19:03 <Cheibriados> 07Eronarn02 {kilobyte} * 0.8.0-a0-4794-g6b64c94: Ignite Poison changes. 10(6 years ago, 2 files, 55+ 18-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6b64c94ad00d
09:19:20 <|amethyst> note how that replaced a call to _player_hurt_monster with a modified copy of that function's contents
09:20:07 <|amethyst> *but* inside _player_hurt_monster we call monster::hurt with cleanup_dead = false
09:20:19 <|amethyst> and in this "new" code it's true
09:21:03 <advil> it seems to be the elementalist itself that is at issue
09:21:15 <advil> not the summons (which makes sense, they're probably poison immune)
09:21:28 <advil> but I don't think it crashes without summons
09:22:21 <advil> no, it does crash w/o summons
09:22:34 <advil> I wonder if amalloy's change to monster_die somehow revealed this?  I'm not really seeing it yet tho
09:24:08 <advil> yeah, ignite poison is just crashing now when it kills stuff
09:24:30 <|amethyst> advil:  monster_die didn't have that assert before
09:24:35 <advil> ah
09:25:13 <|amethyst> I guess revert that assert back to an if (invalid_monster(&mons)) return nullptr;  // might have been cleaned up already
09:25:49 <|amethyst> or actually fix it, but I bet this isn't the only case where we call monster_die on an already dead (and thus possibly cleaned-up) monster
09:28:04 <|amethyst> I guess which to do depends in part on how soon we want to release
09:28:33 <advil> I'm going to spend a few more minutes trying to understand where the monster dies first in this case, at least while I'm drinking my coffee
09:29:14 <|amethyst> advil:  I think it's in the call to hurt()
09:29:36 <advil> oh heh
09:29:39 <advil> I missed that line
09:29:45 <advil> overcomplicating things
09:30:09 <Lasty_> !seen brannock
09:30:09 <Sequell> I last saw Brannock at Sun Apr  9 17:56:36 2017 UTC (1d 19h 33m 33s ago) quitting, saying 'Client Quit'.
09:30:26 <|amethyst> I think if you called it with cleanup_dead = false that would fix this particular problem
09:30:34 <|amethyst> because then it wouldn't die in hurt(), only here
09:30:37 <advil> so that one can be fixed by not doing cleanup
09:30:40 <advil> yes
09:30:45 <|amethyst> (alive() will still be false because that checks HP)
09:30:48 <|amethyst> yeah
09:31:12 <|amethyst> though actually
09:31:22 <|amethyst> you could just remove the else { monster_die }
09:32:29 <advil> yeah that's a good idea, it doesn't seem to add anything
09:32:44 <|amethyst> it might be nice to pass a useful ktype, but I *think* right now the call to monster_die uses the same parameters as the call to hurt() would use
09:32:50 <|amethyst> s/to hurt/from hurt/
09:32:52 <advil> it seems identical
09:32:58 <|amethyst> might set a breakpoint just to verify
09:33:14 <|amethyst> or add a dprf even
09:36:22 <advil> seems identical
09:36:41 <advil> sort of surprising that no ktype is used, but that's happening all over in spl-damage it seems
09:37:13 <advil> I guess it's not obviously either a cloud or a beam
09:37:37 <advil> also
09:37:38 <advil> !source _player_hurt_monster
09:37:39 <Sequell> 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/spl-damage.cc#L1006
09:38:10 <|amethyst> ?
09:38:15 <advil> I suppose there's probably some convoluted reason for that function to exist
09:38:56 <|amethyst> or at least there was in pre-DCSS :/
09:39:05 <advil> heh
09:39:25 <advil> removing it would require testing the places where it's used, so
09:39:53 <|amethyst> hmmm
09:40:49 <|amethyst> pre-DCSS it looks like hurt_monster didn't do cleanup ever
09:41:35 <|amethyst> it seems like the way _player_hurt_monster does it does change the ktype
09:43:14 <advil> clearly what we need is a lua test that casts every spell a bunch :D
09:44:49 <|amethyst> %git 78d874
09:44:50 <Cheibriados> 07dolorous02 * 0.5-a0-2343-g78d8748: Fix _player_hurt_monster() to handle things properly if the monster avoided death. 10(8 years ago, 1 file, 11+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/78d87483db31
09:45:09 <|amethyst> not that useful a commit message
09:46:09 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.20-a0-998-gc9099ab: Fix crash on ignite poison 10(85 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c9099aba4990
09:47:22 <advil> it may still be best to revert that assert
09:47:49 <advil> or use players as our unit test
09:48:22 <|amethyst> could make it a dprf so no one will ever notice it
09:49:18 <advil> that was the only call to monster_die (except in _player_hurt_monster) in spl-damage.cc, which is promising
09:51:54 <advil> oh, _player_hurt_monster is ensuring that print_wounds gets called
09:54:22 <advil> & the behaviour_event...so I guess I can see the value in encapsulating that, even if it could be cleaner
09:59:17 <|amethyst> advil:  yes, but that doesn't explain why it needs the "two-phase kill protocol"
09:59:37 <advil> yeah
10:06:36 <advil> I did a quick pass through monster_die instances and didn't spot any other obvious hurt+monster_die combos, so maybe the assert is ok to leave
10:06:53 <advil> one thing that seems suspicious (but I haven't traced it out) is:
10:06:55 <advil> !source startup.cc:236
10:06:55 <Sequell> https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/startup.cc#L236
10:06:58 <|amethyst> how many places call hurt with cleanup_dead = false?
10:07:10 <|amethyst> seems like all of those would need a monster_die eventually
10:08:02 <advil> I don't think there are that many, at least not that I saw, but I didn't check it from that direction
10:09:28 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-998-gc9099ab (34)
10:09:44 <|amethyst> I think in zap_los monsters there shouldn't be any dead monsters, but I guess that does depend on there being no D1 summoners
10:09:58 <|amethyst> s/zap_los monsters/_zap_los_monsters/
10:10:05 <|amethyst> anyway, I must be going, take care
10:10:33 <advil> later
11:02:42 <Henzell> suboptimal (L10 HECj)  (D:8)
11:03:40 <Henzell> CookieCutter (L3 GrFi)  (D:1)
11:19:18 <Rotatell> grandjackal (L6 DsFi) ASSERT(levels == 1 || which_mutation == RANDOM_CORRUPT_MUTATION) in 'mutation.cc' at line 1695 failed. (D:4)
11:19:55 <advil> just when I was about to head off
11:19:58 <advil> !crashlog
11:19:59 <Sequell> 16837. CookieCutter, XL3 GrFi, T:658 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/CookieCutter/crash-CookieCutter-20170411-150335.txt
11:20:28 <advil> !crashlog grandjackal
11:20:34 <Sequell> 8. grandjackal, XL6 DsFi, T:3938 (milestone): http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/grandjackal/crash-grandjackal-20170411-151909.txt
11:21:26 <advil> ah
11:21:30 <advil> qazlal wrath
11:21:35 <advil> I think
11:22:45 <Rotatell> grandjackal (L7 DsFi) ASSERT(levels == 1 || which_mutation == RANDOM_CORRUPT_MUTATION) in 'mutation.cc' at line 1695 failed. (D:5)
11:24:06 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.20-a0-999-gb5f2a4e: Drop an assert 10(67 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b5f2a4ece545
11:25:54 <advil> ??rebuild
11:25:55 <Sequell> rebuild[1/2]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ http://underhound.eu:81/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ http://crawl.xtahua.com/rebuild/ https://crawl.jorgrun.rocks/rebuild/ Bug |amethyst or Nap.Kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely.
11:39:51 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-999-gb5f2a4e (34)
11:58:30 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
12:09:18 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-999-gb5f2a4e (34)
13:19:05 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir
13:26:53 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-999-gb5f2a4e (34)
13:51:58 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-1000-g0e8f6bb: Don't make the captain's cutlass chop hydra heads 10(7 minutes ago, 3 files, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0e8f6bbeb23e
14:00:31 <Eksell> sergedm (L12 DECj) ASSERT(!invalid_monster(&mons)) in 'mon-death.cc' at line 1887 failed. (D (Sprint))
14:01:22 <Eksell> sergedm (L12 DECj) ASSERT(!in_bounds(you.pos()) || !cell_is_solid(you.pos()) || you.wizmode_teleported_into_rock) in 'main.cc' at line 2822 failed. (D (Sprint))
14:01:48 <Eksell> sergedm (L12 DECj) ASSERT(!in_bounds(you.pos()) || !cell_is_solid(you.pos()) || you.wizmode_teleported_into_rock) in 'main.cc' at line 2822 failed. (D (Sprint))
14:03:21 <Eksell> sergedm (L12 DECj) ASSERT(!in_bounds(you.pos()) || !cell_is_solid(you.pos()) || you.wizmode_teleported_into_rock) in 'main.cc' at line 2822 failed. (D (Sprint))
14:09:25 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-1000-g0e8f6bb (34)
14:13:46 <amalloy> !crashlog sergedm -4
14:13:48 <Sequell> No milestones for sergedm (crash).
14:14:13 <amalloy> !crashlog sergedm sprint -4
14:14:16 <Sequell> 3/6. sergedm, XL12 DECj, T:3442 (milestone): http://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/sergedm/crash-sergedm-20170411-180009.txt
14:23:06 <amalloy> i'm confused as to why _ignite_poison_monsters is calling monster_die directly in that crashlog. the source suggests that it calls monster::hurt, which then may call monster_die. is it possible the call to monster::hurt was inlined or something? that seems like a strange optimisation choice to me
15:21:59 <advil> %git c9099aba4990
15:21:59 <Cheibriados> 07advil02 * 0.20-a0-998-gc9099ab: Fix crash on ignite poison 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c9099aba4990
15:22:12 <advil> amalloy: that was exactly the fix :-)
15:23:37 <advil> I rebuilt for cbro (because of the qazlal wrath fix I did) but not for any other server
15:25:30 <advil> my guess is that at some point hurt didn't handle monster_die, or didn't handle it very well, or something -- there's a static helper function in that file that also uses what |amethyst termed the "two-phase kill protocol", so it's something that lingers for a bunch of spells
15:26:12 <advil> it's implemented correctly for those, though
15:26:44 <advil> !crashlog sergedm sprint
15:26:45 <Sequell> 6. sergedm, XL12 DECj, T:3328 (milestone): http://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/sergedm/crash-sergedm-20170411-180304.txt
15:27:03 <minmay> !source raw_spell_fail
15:27:03 <Sequell> 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/spl-cast.cc#L322
15:28:53 <minmay> there is a really close cubic fit for chance_breaks: http://i.imgur.com/jawAQih.png
15:29:04 <minmay> just sayin'
15:34:02 <amalloy> ah. i need to get in the habit of checking what build a crashlog happened in, instead of just assuming it's always HEAD
17:21:36 <|amethyst> minmay:  with a 9th-degree polynomial I can get the RMS error down to 0.25 :)
17:21:44 <|amethyst> minmay:  but, yeah, 3 seems like the sweet spot
17:31:30 <minmay> |amethyst: yeah I figured the exact shape of the original probably wasn't a conscious decision
17:34:14 <Cheibriados> Ctrl X Display Bug 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11007 by Pekkekke
17:40:43 <|amethyst> minmay:  though I guess to be fair one shouldn't fit just those points
17:41:04 <|amethyst> minmay:  but should fit against the full piecewise-constant curve
17:41:39 <|amethyst> I imagine that only changes the coefficients slightly
17:42:18 <|amethyst> also, would be nice to have something that works without floats
17:43:36 <|amethyst> which I guess you could do with a scale factor of around 300000
17:43:46 <|amethyst> I got   3.84337e-06 x^3 + 0.00162703 x^2 + 0.315361 x + 26.6390
17:43:49 <|amethyst> ish
17:43:50 <minmay> yeah
17:47:08 <minmay> and ofc you may not want this curve in the first place - it probably wouldn't be terrible for spells to go from 1% to 0% fail a little earlier
17:47:37 <minmay> (when that "1%" is actually a lot lower than 1%)
18:15:38 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.20-a0-1000-g0e8f6bb (34)
19:27:59 <rumflump> is there a way for sequell to say what the damage range is for typical players? not counting artis like Dark Maul
19:31:18 -!- Tarara is now known as Taraiph
19:42:48 <minmay> no
19:46:32 -!- tsujin_ is now known as tsujin
19:51:48 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
19:56:25 <alexjurkiewicz> !lg * cikiller~~ghost month x=avg(dam)
19:56:26 <Sequell> 4395 games for * (cikiller~~ghost month): avg(dam)=11.57
19:56:35 <alexjurkiewicz> rumflump: ^ 100% accurate I guarantee it
20:55:47 <Cheibriados> 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/512 * 0.20-a0-992-gc8a0c18: Remove "imported" from lajatang description 10(11 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c8a0c18ff78e
20:55:47 <Cheibriados> 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/512 * 0.20-a0-993-g7fedce6: ring of Shaolin -> ring of Avoidance 10(11 hours ago, 14 files, 5+ 58-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7fedce616e26
20:55:47 <Cheibriados> 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/512 * 0.20-a0-994-g1c3d930: bow of Krishna "Sharnga" -> longbow "The First Bow" 10(11 hours ago, 9 files, 8+ 25-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1c3d93001a9f
21:03:24 <minmay> interesting bug: if you are targeting a spell and 'v' a monster, your MP appears to go down as if you cast the spell (but will return to normal when you redraw it again)
21:03:59 <minmay> I guess it deducts the MP assuming the player stats won't redraw until targeting is finished
21:07:51 <gammafunk> I don't think the flavor for first bow makes too much sense
21:08:27 <gammafunk> it should be something related to the fact that it has the speed ego (which is rare, and notable)
21:09:06 <minmay> You see, in fantasy worlds the older something is the more powerful it is
21:09:17 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest98027
21:09:24 <gammafunk> and I'm not sure that the inventor of a bow would call that "the first bow"; not sure what that is a reference to or what it's going for
21:09:25 <minmay> That's why guns suck compared to bows
21:09:53 <rumflump> Fubbjyb's Patented Self-loading Bow
21:09:57 <minmay> and an "ancient sword" is always a really powerful sword, instead of a crumbling rusty piece of iron
21:10:29 <gammafunk> yeah, I don't mind that trope so much, but the flavor should refer to the power/unique aspect of the unrand
21:10:36 <gammafunk> even though in this case it's not so unique...
21:10:40 <rumflump> things were better in the old days. displace the Senate and reinstate hereditary monarchies!
21:12:07 <rumflump> (star wars jab, not modern politics)
21:12:46 <gammafunk> fr: light sabers
21:13:07 <rumflump> ??arc blade
21:13:07 <Sequell> arc blade[1/1]: +4 rapier with rElec that casts {Static Discharge} on stuff you hit with it.
21:13:50 <gammafunk> another thing about the ring of shaolin is that it doesn't have to become so generic/abstract
21:14:47 <gammafunk> I think the complaint centered around referencing a specific place; it can have east-asian theme/flavor if it doesn't do it in a way that makes that flavor seem "weird"
21:15:08 <gammafunk> however the ring of robustness is also a very abstract unrand, so I guess this pairs with that in a way
21:15:25 <gammafunk> s/abstract/generic/ I guess
21:15:52 <gammafunk> maybe someone could turn the pair of them into something with a bit better lore
21:25:48 -!- fazisi_ is now known as fazisi
21:28:00 <alexjurkiewicz> yeah, I think the lore for unrands should be interesting as a rule over boring
21:28:12 <alexjurkiewicz> so that's why I originally went with a completely new theme
21:28:37 <alexjurkiewicz> re: the first bow, I'm open to better suggestions. It's sort of placeholder theme IMO
21:28:47 <minmay> the fast bow
21:29:08 <hellmonk> +8 longbow "sanic"
21:29:15 <minmay> Speedbow, because you can never have enough 80's video game references
21:32:50 <minmay> Why can scarfs be randarts
21:32:59 <hellmonk> why can scarfs
21:33:18 <minmay> hellmonk: keeps them fresh longer
21:37:26 <Rast> hey devs, even though evolution is the strongest and funnest mutation...
21:37:48 <Rast> ...its super slow to take any effect. even if you get the second level
21:38:15 <Rast> Would you mind speeding it up? You could balance that by reducing the expected mutations gained before it removes itself.
21:39:00 <elliptic> it's already faster than in real life...
21:40:14 <minmay> so are leopard geckos
21:40:23 <hellmonk> #shotsfired
21:41:29 <elliptic> minmay: rename them to leopards then?
21:54:06 <advil> apparently people have been talking about replacing chance_breaks for like 3 years
21:54:16 <minmay> yes
21:54:18 <minmay> mostly me
21:54:22 <hellmonk> no time like the present
21:54:30 <advil> heh, well, actually looks like several others too
21:54:54 <gammafunk> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/161963307517870080/301521382993559563/bs2.jpeg
21:55:06 <gammafunk> is that a pokemon?
21:56:19 <minmay> This seems like suboptimal statue form usage
21:57:07 <gammafunk> hey, this char is impossible; Bu disallow training skills to such high levels!
21:58:22 <gammafunk> alexjurkiewicz: I don't think the theme of "bow from ancient history" is a bad idea for lore, but it's not written in a very good way
21:58:42 <gammafunk> it would be better to go with something more minimal/mysterious if it's going to be so generic
21:59:46 <minmay> you know how european colonists were too stupid to understand the concept of a recurve bow, so whenever they stole bows from the natives they'd string them backwards and then think "these indians make some piece of shit bows"
22:00:01 <CanOfWorms> alexjurkiewicz: any thoughts on shaolin -> butterfly instead
22:00:05 <minmay> there's not really a conclusion to this thought it's just something i think about a lot
22:00:52 <gammafunk> european colonists literally that one weird star trek species that stole technology but didn't understand it, I get it
22:02:39 <gammafunk> CanOfWorms: would you evoke it to summon butterflies?
22:03:02 <minmay> CanOfWorms: any relation to CanOfBees
22:03:34 <hellmonk> ring of the bee {+8 slay} coming soon?
22:03:37 <CanOfWorms> gammafunk: no
22:03:44 <CanOfWorms> hellmonk: gauntlet of bees
22:03:44 <gammafunk> FeelsBadMan
22:03:53 <CanOfWorms> minmay: despite whatever gammafunk says, no
22:04:08 <gammafunk> CanOfWorms is CanOfBees, yes
22:04:20 <minmay> !lg canofbees
22:04:21 <Sequell> 1336. CanOfBees the Fighter (L9 OgHu), mangled by an orc warrior (a +0 flail) on D:7 on 2017-04-11 23:53:27, with 1918 points after 9080 turns and 0:21:14.
22:04:32 <CanOfWorms> !splatratio canofbees
22:04:33 <Sequell> % of xl17 chars killed recentish: 9/9x CanOfBees [100.00%]
22:06:44 <gammafunk> .gfgk name=canofbees
22:06:45 <Sequell> 1. CanOfBees the Warrior (L20 GrFi of Qazlal), blasted by a crystal guardian (crystal bolt) in WizLab (wizlab_lehudib) on 2017-04-08 23:11:10, with 265204 points after 43201 turns and 2:35:52.
22:07:08 <minmay> !lg canofbees kmap~~minmay
22:07:09 <Sequell> 29. CanOfBees the Slayer (L23 GrFi of Qazlal), blasted by a lich (bolt of acid) on Vaults:5 (vaults_vault; vaults_end_minmay_grid2) on 2017-04-10 02:30:21, with 393807 points after 49497 turns and 2:48:58.
22:07:24 <gammafunk> I remember from that TV that qaz lured a second crystal guardian from all the way in the other sector
22:07:34 <gammafunk> killed the first one just barely, second one finished him off
22:10:14 <CanOfWorms> amazing
22:15:57 <alexjurkiewicz> CanOfWorms: i feel like an ali reference is no better
22:16:21 <alexjurkiewicz> in fact it might be worth since it's fourth wall breaking
22:16:24 <alexjurkiewicz> worse
22:16:35 <CanOfWorms> it's more a reference to
22:16:38 <CanOfWorms> @??butterfly
22:16:38 <Gretell> butterfly (00b) | Spd: 25 | HD: 1 | HP: 1 | AC/EV: 0/25 | fly | Res: 06magic(10) | Vul: 09poison | XP: 0 | Sz: tiny | Int: brainless.
22:17:26 <CanOfWorms> you can make the quote ali's quote I guess
22:17:52 <hellmonk> @??ereshkigal
22:17:52 <Gretell> Ereshkigal (00&) | Spd: 14 | HD: 18 | HP: 300-410 | AC/EV: 10/30 | Dam: 4013(drain) | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy | XP: 13096 | Sp: b.cold (3d27) [06!sil], s.torment [06!sil], sum.greater demon [06!sil], paralyse [06!sil], silence [06!sil], major healing (50-230..
22:17:58 <hellmonk> ring of ereshkigal imo
22:18:22 <CanOfWorms> imagine if that one temple vault spawned with ereshkigals instead of butterflies
22:18:40 <CanOfWorms> maybe something to do for april fool's
22:18:53 <hellmonk> ereshkigalcrawl
22:18:58 <CanOfWorms> replace all butterflies with technicolour ereshkigals
22:19:01 <gammafunk> tartcrawl you mean
22:19:16 <hellmonk> oofcrawl wasnt called zotlungcrawl
22:19:16 <gammafunk> tartcrawl has a deep and complex baking system
22:19:30 <hellmonk> gnollcrawl wasnt called D:2andI'monastreakcrawl
22:20:06 <gammafunk> your arugment is invalid
22:20:10 <gammafunk> since hellcrawl was called hellcrawl
22:20:25 <hellmonk> ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
22:20:31 <gammafunk> !deal
22:20:41 <gammafunk> pretend that did something memey
22:22:02 <Sequell> 90s limit exceeded: killed !deal
22:23:16 <CanOfWorms> rip in peace !deal
22:23:18 <CanOfWorms> died young
22:23:45 <Floodkiller> instead of ring of Avoidance, why not ring of Phasing or ring of Shifting?
22:23:47 <gammafunk> it was cool in the 90s
22:24:09 <gammafunk> 90s limit exceeded: killed mikee
22:25:01 <Floodkiller> and reflavor the description around translocations
22:25:20 <Cheibriados> New branch created: remove_chance_breaks (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/remove_chance_breaks
22:25:20 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07[remove_chance_breaks] * 0.20-a0-1000-gd6803eb: Replace spell success breakpoints with minmay's polynomial 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d6803ebe0731
22:25:23 <CanOfWorms> even better
22:25:30 <CanOfWorms> ring of forecast, flavoured around... divinations!!!
22:25:49 <gammafunk> ring of crystal ball of divinations
22:25:59 <gammafunk> ....of power
22:26:00 <Floodkiller> but did divination spells ever give you +8 EV?
22:26:06 <rumflump> Ring of Phasing: When they try to hit Dave, Dave's not there.
22:26:07 <CanOfWorms> ??forecast
22:26:08 <Sequell> forecast ~ forest[1/1]: Wood walls are unique to this branch. As the name tells, spriggans keep the verdant rune of Zot here. Don't try to get it unless you are _very_ careful, or you will die in 10 turns. Deprecated branch, no longer appears.
22:26:12 <CanOfWorms> ugh
22:26:18 <gammafunk> good learndb
22:26:38 <CanOfWorms> anyway forecast was phase shift before phase shift
22:26:50 <Floodkiller> ah, too old for me
22:26:51 <CanOfWorms> oh, it was called forescry
22:26:54 <CanOfWorms> ??forescry
22:26:54 <Sequell> I don't have a page labeled forescry in my learndb.
22:26:57 <CanOfWorms> rp
22:26:58 <CanOfWorms> *rip
22:27:02 <CanOfWorms> http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Forescry
22:27:02 <alexjurkiewicz> ?/forescry
22:27:03 <Sequell> Matching entries (1): plane_shift[1]: see {forescry}
22:27:10 <CanOfWorms> haha niice
22:27:34 <CanOfWorms> anyway it could be reflavoured to ring of forescry as an ashenzari thing
22:27:52 <CanOfWorms> like how sniper is now an ashenzari relic
22:28:35 <Floodkiller> it'd be cooler than ring of Avoidance, anyway
22:30:29 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/513 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/513
22:30:29 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/513 * 0.20-a0-1000-gd6803eb: Replace spell success breakpoints with minmay's polynomial 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d6803ebe0731
22:31:12 <advil> I PRified that so whoever wants can weigh in, I don't know that code well enough to be comfortable just merging it (and maybe the numbers need tweaking anyways)
22:31:23 <advil> also it introduces a double :-(
22:32:33 <advil> very, very briefly
22:34:09 <alexjurkiewicz> hopefully the effect is to make success rates on certain servers slightly higher/lower
22:34:56 <hellmonk> well theoretical winrate already depends on server
22:34:58 <hellmonk> because of ghosts
22:35:08 <hellmonk> so I am sure that nobody will care :^)
22:35:56 <minmay> you can do it in pure integer arithmetic by multiplying by a million or w/e first
22:36:08 <minmay> that's The Crawl Way
22:37:30 <gammafunk> we can't call it "minmay's polynomial"
22:37:38 <|amethyst> you probably want to keep it linear above 45
22:37:38 <gammafunk> that's worse than "the grunt algorithm"
22:38:15 <hellmonk> the duvessa function
22:38:39 <gammafunk> even more furry and recursive than ackerman's function
22:38:44 <|amethyst> otherwise you're significantly reducing fail chances for high-fail-chance spells
22:39:05 <hellmonk> does that actually matter
22:39:12 <gammafunk> *the ackermann function
22:40:06 <minmay> |amethyst: that part was intentional; it's nice to see spells go from 99% to 95% etc etc instead of being at 100% forever and then going down really rapidly
22:40:52 <minmay> since if you're unspoiled and see 100% fail you really have no way to judge how far you are from actually casting the spell - it could be "barely" 100% fail or it could be way way worse
22:41:01 <gammafunk> hrm, stealth sif buff
22:41:08 <minmay> I suppose this makes it more important to fix dmsl
22:41:34 <hellmonk> oh no, we cant possibly buff sif
22:42:02 <gammafunk> you should start with veh if you want to buff things
22:42:05 <hellmonk> sif is just too strong right now, not quite making bottom 3
22:42:44 <minmay> veh is better than sif right now IMO
22:42:59 <hellmonk> make veh spell gifts start at spell level 3
22:43:15 <gammafunk> I don't think veh is better for winning
22:43:23 <minmay> i do
22:43:27 <gammafunk> better for various definitions of better
22:43:30 <gammafunk> but not better for winning
22:44:24 <hellmonk> who cares, it's a contest to see which bag of garbage stinks less
22:44:35 <hellmonk> you shouldnt ever take either if you are Playing Optimally
22:44:43 <gammafunk> a HOP?
22:45:09 <gammafunk> what does veh do in hellcrawl again?
22:45:16 <hellmonk> make veh spell gifts start at spell level 3
22:45:18 <gammafunk> I recall sif goes all ash or something like that
22:45:27 <hellmonk> I need to bufferoni veh further though
22:45:40 <hellmonk> also laughing my ass off that bels mushroom challenge thread has existed for multiple days and fedhas still exists
22:45:51 <gammafunk> yeah that wouldn't....what does spell level 3 refer to?
22:46:02 <gammafunk> 3* piety?
22:46:03 <gammafunk> maybe I've forgotten how veh gifting works
22:46:06 <gammafunk> ??vehumet
22:46:06 <Sequell> vehumet[1/2]: The god of destructive magic. Offers you the opportunity to memorize up to 15 different destructive spells over the course of the game, beginning with a L1 spell at * piety and loosely weighted by elemental skills. Provides mana on kills at * piety, {wizardry} bonus for destructive spells at *** piety, and extra range at **** piety.
22:46:10 <hellmonk> no, like make the first spell gifts veh gives you as level 3 spells
22:46:10 <minmay> it refers to spells that are level 3
22:46:23 <hellmonk> one of the problems with veh is that the early gifts are literally unusable
22:46:43 <hellmonk> because they are always worse than what you have unless you are playing a meme game where you go veh on a non-book start
22:47:23 <hellmonk> whereas at level 3 you are at least potentially picking up cflame or meph or sth
22:47:33 <hellmonk> at a time where it is extremely relevant
22:48:02 <hellmonk> also since the only reason anyone plays veh is to cast level 9s, make the last set of gifts all level 9
22:48:12 <gammafunk> it's probably a good example of why spell gifts should just always be books
22:49:22 <hellmonk> yeah it would also be good to make the gifts artifact spellbooks so that people don't have to play the spell slot minigame
22:49:29 <hellmonk> I still need to do that
22:49:58 <gammafunk> hrm, real-talk probably
22:50:04 <gammafunk> what you want to do in hellcrawl is remove sif
22:50:07 <minmay> I spent quite a bit of time pressing 5 in that Dr game to stop veh from replacing cbl
22:50:17 <gammafunk> give the book gifting to veh
22:50:36 <gammafunk> hrm, I guess summons, but my recommendation there is let veh support those other schools
22:50:41 <gammafunk> it used to in the past
22:51:34 <gammafunk> maybe some other god that wasn't just "this is ALSO the GOD OF MAGIC" could do some magicy things but not be all about that
22:52:02 <hellmonk> maybe I will take veh wizardry up to ridiculous levels so you can get that spicy late dungeon firestorm
22:52:03 <gammafunk> but sif doesn't seem very hellcrawl to me; veh is all about QoL type stuff
22:52:39 <alexjurkiewicz> veh is sort of fiddly in knowing what spells are assisted
22:52:41 <hellmonk> sif is pretty smooth now that you don't spam aa constantly
22:52:53 <alexjurkiewicz> sif is a lot more streamlined imo
22:53:05 <gammafunk> disagree with me again, go on
22:53:14 <gammafunk> I can make Cerebot disappear from your discord
22:53:15 <gammafunk> forever.
22:53:32 <gammafunk> no I just mean what Veh does to improve conjurations
22:53:41 <gammafunk> well, and the interface-free MP restore
22:54:46 <rumflump> yeah mb focus on veh's other stuff now that you've made veh's gifts less annoying. do you want a veh character to be unreliant on floor drops like a sif character? I mean maybe you do, not asking rhetorically/snarky
22:58:18 <alexjurkiewicz> in hellcrawl, maybe veh should just not gift spells
22:58:54 <hellmonk> would need some much better passives then
23:23:41 -!- holden is now known as toqov