00:00:39 <hellmonk> fun fact my original attempt at no upstairs was to actually not generate upstairs when generating the level, but then I realized that doing it that way was a huge mess
00:01:06 <hellmonk> so instead I just made a function that replaces upstairs with floor when you go down
00:01:40 <rumflump> cute
00:03:01 <alexjurkiewicz> the fact arrows mulch makes dealing with centaurs when you open a door much easier
00:03:18 <hellmonk> you can close doors on items now anyway
00:03:44 <alexjurkiewicz> oh
00:03:57 <rumflump> ah, my first contribution to hellcrawl :}
00:04:03 <rumflump> when I was a young lad
00:04:09 <hellmonk> wew lad
00:04:10 <rumflump> dreaming of a world where doors aren't annoying
00:04:34 <alexjurkiewicz> i think you need more hydras in the spawn table btw
00:04:39 <alexjurkiewicz> they should be an every game thing
00:04:56 <alexjurkiewicz> instead i get 10 gargoyls
00:05:04 <hellmonk> they are already fairly common I think
00:05:04 <alexjurkiewicz> (sample size = 1)
00:05:27 <hellmonk> hold up while I dig out the pick data
00:06:54 <hellmonk> gargoyle is 370 flat from 10-18, hydra has two entries, 400 rising from 10-20 and 315 semi from 11-23
00:07:17 <hellmonk> so hydras should show up pretty regularly
00:07:50 <alexjurkiewicz> hm, ok guess i'm unlucky
00:10:49 <alexjurkiewicz> it'd be nice if shortcuts had some symbol saying "don't go this way"
00:10:54 <alexjurkiewicz> like auto exclusion or something
00:11:23 <hellmonk> they should give a warning
00:11:34 <hellmonk> but yeah maybe autoexclusion would be good
00:11:43 <hellmonk> in addition to the yes/no prompt
00:12:07 <alexjurkiewicz> ah, I didn't try to use one, missed the warning
00:13:10 <hellmonk> you should also get warned for leaving a rune behind on all floors instead of just in pan
00:13:37 <rumflump> why does hellcrawl have runes
00:14:21 <hellmonk> idk, incentive to do pan I guess
00:16:50 <alexjurkiewicz> is there any way you could make the orc shops better
00:17:31 <hellmonk> is there code for shop quality somewhere
00:23:55 <rumflump> the lazy solution is just spawn a couple more shops
00:25:01 <hellmonk> yeah I guess
00:25:22 <alexjurkiewicz> man, there's a massive difficulty spike at the first S rune
00:25:43 <alexjurkiewicz> hellmonk: I was thinking make the shop quality higher if the shop is in orc
00:25:52 <hellmonk> oh, that might work yeah
00:26:16 <alexjurkiewicz> anyway, I went from a tab mifi doing nothing until shoals, then I used all my consumables and died on shoals:3
00:26:27 <hellmonk> rip
00:27:50 <minmay> increase the level in the shop_struct before generating the items
00:31:42 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-984-ge8aa303 (34)
00:31:47 <hellmonk> oh, btw has anyone come in here to complain about the monk changes yet
00:31:53 <hellmonk> because they're bad
00:32:26 <minmay> revenge of the staff monk
00:32:32 <nikheizen> they're a challenge race now bro LOL
00:32:40 <hellmonk> they already were
00:32:50 <hellmonk> but they were made even worse because ???
00:32:51 <nikheizen> they're not a race
00:32:55 <nikheizen> dummy
00:33:04 <hellmonk> challenge class, friendo :^)
00:33:16 <minmay> challenge background, fuccboi
00:33:30 <nikheizen> challenge role, y'all've'ya
00:33:40 <hellmonk> >:^))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
00:33:45 <rumflump> pretty sure it's a challenge job
00:34:01 <nikheizen> difficult task?
00:34:05 <rumflump> it's in job_data.cc
00:34:24 <rumflump> s/_/-/
00:53:02 <minmay> @??freezing wraith
00:53:02 <Gretell> freezing wraith (12W) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 33-52 | AC/EV: 12/10 | Dam: 1612(cold:8-23), 1513(drain speed) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, see invisible, fly, unbreathing | Res: 06magic(40), 12cold+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy | XP: 354 | Sz: Medium | Int: human.
00:53:22 <minmay> man 2 different-AF attacks is confusing
00:56:05 <ontoclasm> i don't really get why monsters have multiple attacks in the first place
00:56:05 <Sequell> ontoclasm: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
00:56:09 <ontoclasm> !messages
00:56:09 <Sequell> (1/1) rumflump said (1d 22h 5m 47s ago): is there any way to help make the playerdoll rework a reality?
00:56:25 <ontoclasm> rumflump: draw like 1500 armor tiles xD
00:56:52 <minmay> in theory multi attacks are for making AC better
00:57:10 <minmay> or possibly for reducing variance but I doubt that
00:57:22 <minmay> hard to come up with a non-flavour reason to have multiple attack flavours on one monster however
01:20:10 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-984-ge8aa303 (34)
01:23:31 <gammafunk> !tell MarvinPA I was going to poke tombhatches soon so it can get in and get some play-testing; did you have anything you specifically wanted to happen that I shoulbe be aware of (or do you have any changes I would want in any local branch)?
01:23:31 <Sequell> gammafunk: OK, I'll let marvinpa know.
01:57:51 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-984-ge8aa303
02:06:51 <alexjurkiewicz> < minmay> or possibly for reducing variance but I doubt that <-- jugg was changed for this reason
02:06:55 <alexjurkiewicz> @??juggernaut
02:06:55 <Gretell> juggernaut (09C) | Spd: 15 (atk: 450%) | HD: 20 | HP: 148-197 | AC/EV: 20/5 | Dam: 80, 40 | 10doors, fighter, see invisible | Res: 06magic(120), 12drown | XP: 7249 | Sz: Giant | Int: human.
02:07:22 <alexjurkiewicz> %git 4672744
02:07:22 <Cheibriados> 07Lasty02 * 0.18-a0-67-g4672744: Dice up juggernaut melee (elliptic, devteam) 10(1 year, 5 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4672744be0e7
02:16:41 <gammafunk> wow
02:16:51 <gammafunk> that commit comment is a complete falsehood
02:26:07 <minmay> !tell crate here's a whole new level of bad vault colouring http://i.imgur.com/iX1imP1.png
02:26:07 <Sequell> minmay: OK, I'll let crate know.
02:34:11 <alexjurkiewicz> why would people spend effort colouring the console tiles
02:46:19 <Yermak> advil, on this commit: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commit;h=e8aa30383ec52b8448460130e2dc48ab1939a69f
02:46:28 <Yermak> it looks like plants count as enemies in los
02:46:57 <gammafunk> alexjurkiewicz: it's good to color vaults correctly
02:47:07 <gammafunk> depending on how you mean "tiles"
02:50:02 <Yermak> are counted*
02:54:23 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-984-ge8aa303
02:56:24 <Yermak> Also, advil, is it possible to make "dance and hit" togglable? Sometimes stabbers want to remain unnoticed.
03:01:31 <Yermak> Hmm, why does ultimate WJC ability stops Me from being invisible? Kind of weird, but I guess flavour and all. Ok. It would be nice to add "stop Heaven on Earth" button. First, maybe player wants to be unvisible again. Second, clouds blocking los aren't always beneficial. They stop palyer from blinking away, same problem as with Dith's fog.
03:03:33 <Yermak> Also, it would be nice to explain and warn in ability description why it stops you from being invisible.
03:05:10 <minmay> Yermak: there's not a "stop Sanctuary" button either
03:05:25 <Yermak> Yes, it would be nice too
03:05:50 <minmay> Yermak: as in, not being able to end it is intentional
03:05:58 <rumflump> minmay: my cat is trying to eat wasabi
03:06:01 <minmay> I do agree the description is obtuse though
03:06:22 <minmay> rumflump: when i was 14 my best friend convinced one of his friends to snort wasabi powder and he passed out
03:06:36 <rumflump> dang
03:24:59 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-984-ge8aa303 (34)
03:41:59 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/511 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/511
03:41:59 <Cheibriados> 03Mike Robinson02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/511 * 0.20-a0-985-g1026ec0: Make Cutlasses Long Blades 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1026ec06e466
04:23:51 <alexjurkiewicz> !tell hellmonk i seem to pick up all missiles by default now
04:23:51 <Sequell> alexjurkiewicz: OK, I'll let hellmonk know.
04:29:11 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
04:40:48 <rumflump> that's on purpose
04:41:17 <rumflump> since you can't go back for it
05:16:51 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
06:46:25 -!- Dracunos_ is now known as Dracunos
09:02:34 <advil> Yermak: Thanks, yeah, you are right
09:02:37 <advil> about the plants
09:02:49 <Yermak> also allies
09:03:46 <Yermak> Did you change only messaging? Because jump itself got changed.
09:03:54 <advil> jump shouldn't be changed
09:04:03 <Yermak> Previously it required a monster to hop over.
09:04:17 <advil> heh the way I did it leaks information about invisible enemies
09:04:17 <Yermak> Now it only requires monsters to be around landing square.
09:04:41 <Yermak> And to be honest I like the new jump more.
09:05:10 <advil> I think it's been like that -- I've been playing in trunk and it seemed to have that behavior
09:05:54 <rumflump> does it still require both a wall and a monster?
09:06:11 <advil> yes
09:06:42 <advil> %git 68a6da7a03e30c60a75c8c8210c5de75ab074aac
09:06:42 <Cheibriados> 07MarvinPA02 * 0.20-a0-895-g68a6da7: Only allow WJC walljumping when a target would be attacked 10(3 weeks ago, 3 files, 42+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/68a6da7a03e3
09:07:01 <advil> yeah, that checks for any monster in the spaces around the landing spot
09:07:58 <Yermak> oh, also there are cases when you unsuccefully try to jump with monsters on screen, but there is no message whatsoever
09:08:31 <advil> hmm, any idea what the case is?
09:09:29 <advil> side note, I have to say that as someone who didn't play wjc before this change (so have no impressions whatsoever of the previous version) this version of the ability seems pretty good, in fact dare I say fun
09:09:30 <Yermak> Probably there were a wall on the landing spot, but I'm not sure
09:10:09 <advil> it might not message now if the surface is the wrong type (whatever that is)
09:11:53 <Yermak> And what about Heaven on Earth ability making your invisibility not active? As if Corona was casted on you?
09:12:19 <Yermak> If it is intended flavour, it should be mentioned
09:13:16 <advil> I'll have to look into that one, I have to admit I have been fairly out of the loop on wjc, that's why I was trying actually playing it :-)
09:13:32 <advil> wrt the idea of allowing disabling whirlwind, that might be possible
09:13:43 <advil> at least that's what I think you meant
09:14:01 <Yermak> yes
09:14:50 <Yermak> I tried to get to sleeping monster unnoticed, and passed by a wandering monster, which shouted when whirlwind hit it.
09:15:02 <advil> yeah, I figured it was something like that
09:15:16 <advil> it seems fairly unintuitive that it couldn't be disabled (e.g. it's not like tso halo) so I think the case can be made
09:15:42 <advil> I'm a little wary of changing wjc gameplay without discussion just because people have had such strong opinions
09:15:50 <advil> so I might not do it unilaterally
09:15:59 <Yermak> there are also monster which cast Mirror Injury and you might wanna pass by it without hitting
09:16:09 <advil> ah, interesting
09:37:14 <advil> any c++ people around?
09:43:55 <top> Hello
09:45:27 <advil> hi top
09:45:59 <advil> I guess the convention in this channel is that we don't usually do greetings, feel free to just say whatever's on your mind :-)
09:47:36 <top> ugh i wanna change this username lol it's my laptop name and it's just like that. Anyway hello, I'm a blind crawl player who's been keeping in contact with moritz, and heard about accessibility plan for a while now so I've decided to jump in and see what I can do to help.
09:49:04 <advil> welcome
09:49:21 <advil> have you seen the document that dpeg compiled?
09:49:54 <rumflump> /nick desired-username
09:51:08 <top> thank you, and yes.
09:51:24 -!- top is now known as desired-mata
09:51:33 -!- desired-mata is now known as mata
09:52:00 -!- mata is now known as Mars
09:52:25 -!- Mars is now known as Mani_mata
09:52:37 <Mani_mata> finally
09:55:05 <advil> Mani_mata: so I guess from looking at dpeg's document, it seems like there are three kinds of things that could help.  1. more feedback on the ideas from your perspective, to try to make them more concrete. 2. options settings (rc files) that are good, and 3. code that implements some of those ideas
09:56:07 <advil> that's not necessarily exhaustive
09:56:42 <advil> just what I came up with
09:56:54 <Mani_mata> i'd rather pass when it comes to codes. I'm bad at it. Ideas are what I might be able to help though. Right now I'm having a skype chat with Moritz, bringing coordinate to discuss.
09:57:09 <advil> Some of the ideas there are relatively easy to implement and some are really involved. I think much of it will get implemented sooner or later in some form.
09:57:46 <Mani_mata> yar, I have high hope and feel it's gonna go well
09:58:00 <Yermak> Hmm, WJC actually has interesting interaction with Confusing Touch: confusing multiple enemies via whirlwind and jump.
09:58:09 <advil> Mani_mata: it may not all happen immediately though :-)
09:58:11 <advil> yeah, I think ideas and feedback will be very helpful
09:58:50 <Mani_mata> anything can wait, as long as it's worked on. No push or anything.:)
09:59:51 <advil> dpeg's document is already really helpful, and I suspect the easiest thing for us to work on first is the view / ctrl-x displays
10:00:45 <rumflump> I missed the url for that, can you paste it?
10:01:01 <Mani_mata> I actually don't think coordinate needs to be given out, since it, as stated in the doccument, is supposed to be "hidden". I think being able to tell how many steps in what directions that object or mob is is enough. That's just me though
10:03:20 <advil> rumflump: it is https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:accessibility:start
10:03:27 <advil> Mani_mata: I think coordinates in some form are possible
10:03:41 <advil> one idea I had is to just set the first stairs you go down as 0,0
10:03:59 <advil> relative coordinates are even more possible, but may be less helpful for building a mental model of the map
10:04:53 <advil> it is only the absolute coordinates indexed from the corner of the map that is supposed to be hidden (since this will leak information about the level edge before you've explored it)
10:05:41 <Mani_mata> oh that's fine then as long as it doesn't spoil the fun lol
10:06:55 <rumflump> preserving secrecy wrt level border seems like it might be a sacred cow, to me
10:08:13 <advil> well, it's going to heavily determine optimal fleeing routes in some cases
10:08:21 <rumflump> that's a cool idea, though, starting the coords from your first stair
10:10:25 <rumflump> that maybe will be even more intuitive than absolute coords
10:13:49 <Mani_mata> Depends on what secret it is:p but as long as it doesn't spoil the fun, it's fine. And agree about fleeing route.
10:15:30 <rumflump> !tell dpeg are you aware of https://etherpad.net/ ? great place to collaborate, requires no login. each pad has a unique url. in my experience, an open document like etherpad is almost never harmed, and easily reverted. might enable a faster, better exchange of ideas for the VI project, since wiki, irc, skype, and audiogames forum all have login barriers
10:15:31 <Sequell> Maximum message length is 340 characters, but you had 345. Eschew verbosity, Gladys!
10:17:26 <rumflump> grrr, fine
10:19:11 <Mani_mata> interesting website. Never knew there was something like that around.
10:23:57 <rumflump> we've been using it in a brogue channel to cooperatively play a seed. in that game, if your game's "seed" is 2082053, for instance, another player can start a game with the same seed number, and you'll both have the same items, monsters, and layout
10:24:24 <rumflump> so you can exchange tips about what you've seen, identified, or died to, even though you're all technically playing solo
10:24:33 <Mani_mata> how lovely
10:25:02 <rumflump> someone on the crawl forums was working on making deterministic game seeding in crawl as well, not sure the status on that
10:26:53 <advil> he had something ~ working as a proof of concept, not sure if it went any further
10:27:29 <advil> it's one of those things that's a _lot_ easier to do if it's part of your design from the beginning
10:27:42 <rumflump> heh, I bet!
10:30:23 <Mani_mata> crawl has far more content than brogue. it's gonna take like forever for each lol
10:34:52 <Mani_mata> anyway bbl. it's good to finally get in touch with some of you.
10:53:00 <advil> if any c++ people happen to see this, could you see if what I did to monster_near_iterator to let it be used with find_if etc is too horrible? http://sprunge.us/gZKF
10:53:41 <advil> in my extremely limited experience I've never seen end() implemented on the iterator itself like that but it seems to be the most sensible way to do it here
10:58:48 <rumflump> if it's not a crawl specific question you can try #friendly-coders
10:59:14 <rumflump> spacetoast is big into c++
11:00:08 <advil> it's crawl specific
11:00:29 <advil> the answer outside of crawlcode is probably, redo the whole thing in some other way
11:46:19 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy
13:13:03 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-984-ge8aa303 (34)
13:33:40 <amalloy> advil: what do you mean, never seen end() implemented on the iterator itself? where else would you implement it?
13:34:43 <amalloy> what you wrote looks fine to me, but |amethyst is who i would ask what good c++ style looks like
13:35:30 <amalloy> oh, normally you would do it on the container, not the iterator. i see. but there is no container here
13:42:47 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-985-g54150e0: Fix Confusing Touch being able to affect multiple targets in a turn 10(56 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/54150e06a2dd
13:42:47 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-986-g6b4a05a: Make monster confuse brand from chaos weapons behave consistently 10(56 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6b4a05aa73f6
13:42:47 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-987-g2aed4d8: Adjust Confusing Touch display 10(55 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2aed4d8a3634
13:42:47 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-988-g4de0a85: Improve Heaven on Earth description 10(39 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4de0a85fb2cf
13:42:47 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-989-g4eb006d: Remove the cancel Song of Slaying ability 10(25 minutes ago, 6 files, 2+ 18-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4eb006deb9de
13:42:47 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-990-g3ff418b: Rename Heaven on Earth to Heavenly Storm 10(11 minutes ago, 19 files, 54+ 54-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3ff418bb0f36
13:43:16 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA
13:49:34 <Lasty_> !tell brannock how're your scarf plans coming around? In most of the games I've played lately, finding a scarf has mostly felt pretty mediocre, and I'd love to get them to the point where they're at least as exciting as cloaks.
13:49:35 <Sequell> Lasty_: OK, I'll let brannock know.
13:59:25 <MarvinPA> !tell gammafunk looks like tomb:1 tries to place a 3rd stone staircase (which ends up anywhere at random), i guess it's hitting some fallback that tomb:2 doesn't?
13:59:25 <Sequell> MarvinPA: OK, I'll let gammafunk know.
14:01:14 <MarvinPA> !tell gammafunk likewise with upstairs on tomb:2, it seems to have mangled the connectivity of the tomb:1 outer hallway
14:01:14 <Sequell> MarvinPA: OK, I'll let gammafunk know.
14:02:19 <MarvinPA> !tell gammafunk oops ignore all that probably, i think i ran the wrong crawl executable
14:02:20 <Sequell> MarvinPA: OK, I'll let gammafunk know.
14:04:40 <amalloy> FR !untell
14:06:48 <minmay> the real power play is to change your nick and read their messages
14:09:29 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-990-g3ff418b (34)
14:10:17 <MarvinPA> !tell gammafunk i would maybe put an uphatch back to the centre of tomb:1 on tomb:2 somewhere, so that going down the first time doesn't commit you to going through the tomb:1 hallway in order to leave again
14:10:18 <Sequell> MarvinPA: OK, I'll let gammafunk know.
14:12:21 <MarvinPA> !tell gammafunk and the tomb:3 uphatches could maybe be closer to the treasure room entrances? mostly i'd just be a bit worried about it being too mean overall, but definitely looks roughly good in general
14:12:22 <Sequell> MarvinPA: OK, I'll let gammafunk know.
14:33:46 <|amethyst> Lasty_:  re scarves, I like the idea of moving invis to scarves, and maybe MR too; and possibly moving rC to cloaks
14:41:18 <Lasty_> |amethyst: thematically it hurts invis, but in terms of power level it makes way more sense
14:50:31 <|amethyst> Lasty_:  Because of Star Trek or because of Harry Potter? :)
14:52:12 <Lasty_> |amethyst: because of pretty much 1000 years of cloaks of invisibility :p
14:52:29 <|amethyst> Fair enough
14:52:43 <gammafunk> yeah I think the theme is pretty well established, but also agree that gameplay-wise it makes more sense on cloaks
14:52:46 <gammafunk> er scarfs
14:52:51 <gammafunk> the fluffy things
14:52:58 <|amethyst> what about cloak (replacing scarf) vs overcoat (replacing cloaks)?
14:53:03 <|amethyst> s/ks/k/
14:53:07 <gammafunk> fr: tribbles
14:53:39 <Lasty_> |amethyst: I'd feel fine about that
14:53:40 <gammafunk> overcoat? what is this, a film noir roguelike?
14:53:46 <Lasty_> gammafunk: yes
14:53:52 <gammafunk> but....no whiskey...
14:53:56 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  starcursed masses are basically evil tribbles, right?
14:54:00 <Lasty_> you don't narrate all crawl games to yourself in a smoky drawl?
14:54:05 <gammafunk> they're not furry, |amethyst
14:54:13 <gammafunk> Lasty_: I should try that for more views
14:54:20 <|amethyst> yeah, the removal of whiskey definitely gave us flavour debt
14:54:41 <|amethyst> https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/602jb1/
14:55:00 <Lasty_> It was late afternoon when the goblin walked into my line of sight. I knew from his aggressive stride and +0 club that he meant no good.
14:55:14 <gammafunk> haha, I've never seen that 'Bobby' comment
14:55:26 <Lasty_> haha yeah
14:55:40 <|amethyst> I feel like I'm missing a reference there
14:55:53 <gammafunk> if it is a reference, I'm in the same boat
14:56:11 <gammafunk> also a good comment I found
14:56:16 <gammafunk> !vault mikee_hates_you
14:56:16 <Sequell> 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/mini_monsters.des#L1381
14:56:16 <|amethyst> that vault is 10 years old, btw
14:56:20 <gammafunk> from evilmike
14:56:40 <gammafunk> yeah I recall that vault from when I began playing dcss
14:56:41 <Lasty_> I thought the idea was just that it was a orc warren with a liquor cabinet
14:56:56 <Lasty_> and/or boozehall
14:57:05 <gammafunk> I got the sense that it was some kind of drunken party, since it had the potions of confusion
14:57:06 <|amethyst> I guess the drake is like a NO2 whippet
14:57:16 <gammafunk> and there were a couple similar things in nethack iirc
14:57:26 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  also the vault name :)
14:57:42 <Lasty_> |amethyst: lol
14:58:08 <gammafunk> yeah, mikee himself pointed out the vault in discord yesterday
14:58:08 <|amethyst> "Errybody shotgun the drake lol"
14:58:15 <Lasty_> Hotbox it
14:58:30 <gammafunk> wow, so erik piper made that one
14:58:51 <|amethyst> or as I like to call him, "Rowdy" Erik Piper
14:59:16 <|amethyst> I'm dating myself, aren't I?
15:00:20 <|amethyst> oh, I guess he (Roddy Piper) was active until just a few years ago
15:00:21 <|amethyst> so maybe not
15:00:52 <gammafunk> |amethyst: oh, and I ran into a design issue yesterday that you might be able to help me with; many moons ago you recommended I use position markers for the transporter destinations, which I have done
15:01:05 <gammafunk> but just yesterday, after thinking about the tombhatches branch, I made an important realization
15:01:16 <gammafunk> the way hatches work means that transporters can't be implemented that way
15:01:48 <gammafunk> transporters on level N, set their position marker on the destination level (say N+1), at the same position as the hatch on the source level
15:02:01 <gammafunk> this is for convenience with how we load levels in memory one at a time
15:02:10 <|amethyst> I was going to ask if your realisation was that markers suck and I should feel bad for suggesting them??
15:02:18 <gammafunk> yeah....
15:02:20 <|amethyst> heh
15:02:39 <gammafunk> so the player takes the stairs, the new level gets loaded, and the position of the hatch on the old level is used for convenience
15:02:47 <|amethyst> Maybe I should make an implementable to keep all levels in memory
15:02:49 <gammafunk> obviously if a transporter happens to be at that position
15:03:13 <|amethyst> hm, can you only have one marker of a given type at a given position
15:03:14 <|amethyst> oh
15:03:19 <|amethyst> I guess you can't tell the difference
15:03:22 <gammafunk> right
15:03:24 <|amethyst> need a new subtype it seems
15:03:52 <|amethyst> Also, need some shit to avoid all this "look at the enum to decide how to dynamic_cast" shit
15:03:57 <gammafunk> I suppose; could add props to position markers, but that would make them like wiz props markers
15:04:00 <|amethyst> sorry, that was a lot of "shit"
15:04:20 <gammafunk> I was thinking as a somewhat hackish way, just use a wiz props marker
15:04:26 <|amethyst> hm
15:04:32 <gammafunk> with a _transporter_x and _transporter_y set of props
15:04:42 <|amethyst> but then you might as well just use props without a marker
15:05:00 <gammafunk> hrm, there's a grid of props?
15:05:19 <gammafunk> obv what I need must be on a grid
15:05:29 <|amethyst> hmmm
15:05:40 <|amethyst> oh, I guess terrain props don't have parameters
15:05:45 <|amethyst> they're just a bitfield
15:06:01 <gammafunk> I do agree that markers are kind of a hot mess
15:06:26 <gammafunk> now that I have a somewhat better understanding of them
15:06:38 <|amethyst> I wouldn't mind adding a grid of actual props to crawl_environment
15:07:10 <|amethyst> only problem is "pgrid" is already taken
15:07:18 <|amethyst> oh, and I should convert that to a bitfield enum
15:08:38 <gammafunk> honestly, looking at map_marker_type
15:09:10 <gammafunk> it does kind of seem that maybe all of these save for lua marker could just be in some kind of coord_def -> hash map
15:09:43 <gammafunk> seems that the design of making a special class for each informational thing is overkill
15:10:12 <gammafunk> I guess some of this info is somewhat complex
15:35:40 -!- Shimatora_ is now known as Shimatora
15:42:49 <gammafunk> hrm, the vim des syntax thing seems to recognize what's lua but doesn't know how to wrap lua comments
15:49:20 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  also, our ctags config recognises maps but not functions defined in .des files
15:49:47 <gammafunk> hey, I'm the one suggesting bugs for others to fix here!
15:49:58 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  (docs/develop/ctags.txt)
15:50:09 <|amethyst> gammafunk: could post those as implementables
15:50:14 <gammafunk> I didn't know it could look up maps, that's nice
15:50:55 <|amethyst> !source erik_orc_1
15:50:55 <Sequell> 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/orc.des#L186
16:03:31 <Cheibriados> 03|amethyst02 07* 0.20-a0-991-g93344ec: Turn terrain_property_t into an enum_bitfield. 10(32 minutes ago, 11 files, 20+ 18-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/93344ec495c9
16:07:10 <amalloy> |amethyst: did you see advil's request for review earlier? he was concerned that http://sprunge.us/gZKF was gross for implementing end() on an iterator
16:07:57 <|amethyst> amalloy:  hmm, I was thinking of that question independently
16:08:49 <|amethyst> amalloy:  IMO if you implement end() you should also implement begin() for completeness (and so you can do range-for), but I think it's reasonable
16:09:30 <|amethyst> !tell advil re http://sprunge.us/gZKF I think you should implement begin() as well so range-for is possible, but I think it's reasonably to make the iterator class usable as a range
16:09:30 <Sequell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let advil know.
16:09:58 <|amethyst> !tell advil but I guess it might be cleaner to make a separate (dataless) range class
16:09:59 <Sequell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let advil know.
16:10:22 <|amethyst> !tell advil s/reasonably/reasonable/
16:10:22 <Sequell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let advil know.
16:10:44 <amalloy> |amethyst: yes, i agree it's better to add a second class than to have a thing which is both iterable and an iterator
16:11:14 <|amethyst> thanks for pointing that out
16:11:28 <|amethyst> I haven't done /away recently so it would have been a lot of scrolling
16:16:38 <|amethyst> !tell advil also, since I know you're just dying for more large refactoring projects :P, all our position and enum operators (monster_iterator, adjacent_iterator, rectangle_iterator, etc) use this funny operator bool() convention instead of having an end() and operator!=
16:16:38 <Sequell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let advil know.
16:17:11 <|amethyst> !tell advil IMO that should not be, so that we can use range for, std:: algorithms, etc.
16:17:11 <Sequell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let advil know.
16:18:39 <|amethyst> !tell advil
16:18:40 <Sequell> I don't grok. Syntax is !tell PERSON MESSAGE.
16:19:06 <|amethyst> !tell advil seems easy, but tedious; maybe you could write up an implementable on Mantis rather than doing it yourself
16:19:06 <Sequell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let advil know.
16:19:06 <amalloy> speaking of large refactorings, |amethyst, i have this tiny bash script and an elisp function that i wrote to make it relatively painless to change a function from taking foo* as its first parameter to taking foo&. my thoughts on this are: (1) surely there is a much better version of this already in some IDE somewhere, but i don't know how to use it; (2) i wouldn't mind checking it in somewhere if anyone is keen on trying it
16:19:28 <|amethyst> amalloy:  every use would have to be checked
16:19:52 <amalloy> |amethyst: sure. you still have to read over the diff once you run it
16:19:52 <|amethyst> amalloy:  I imagine you handle call sites, not just definitions/declarations?
16:19:55 <amalloy> yes
16:19:59 <|amethyst> nice
16:20:18 <amalloy> the bash function for call sites is the easy part
16:20:25 <amalloy> the fun bit is the elisp that rewrites the body of the function
16:20:32 <|amethyst> ♥ bash functions
16:20:40 <|amethyst> ♥ elisp
16:20:51 <|amethyst> well, not really, they're both terrible languages
16:20:55 <amalloy> yes
16:20:56 <|amethyst> but better than vimscript
16:20:59 <amalloy> also yes
16:21:34 <|amethyst> there was this one game I developed for that had its own language
16:22:09 <amalloy> oh that reminds me, i submitted https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/507 instead of just committing it
16:22:19 <|amethyst> the return statement didn't actually return, it just set the return value like   func = foo   in Pascal
16:22:27 <amalloy> CI found no errors, so i'm gonna just merge it unless you'd like to read it over, |amethyst
16:22:38 <|amethyst> sure, I can take a look
16:23:28 <|amethyst> also, in this language, if you wanted local variables (dynamic scope) you did a push and pop in the function---so it's good that 'return' doesn't transfer control :/
16:23:54 <amalloy> haha
16:24:16 <|amethyst> (I developed scripts for it, didn't work on the engine or I would have fixed that shit: http://gccg.sourceforge.net/
16:24:29 <|amethyst> )
16:24:43 <amalloy> no wonder you hate elisp, you can't even track a single open paren
16:25:17 <gammafunk> I mastered lisp and shell through studying sequellese
16:26:15 <|amethyst> ouch
16:27:07 <|amethyst> amalloy:  hmm... the thing I worry about is that monster_die does work with a null right now (it just returns nullptr immediately)
16:27:45 <amalloy> |amethyst: indeed. after auditing uses of it, i concluded (as in the commit message) that almost all cases provably never pass null; a few cases aren't provable but look good
16:27:55 <amalloy> played a bit and didn't observe any crashes
16:28:35 <|amethyst> maybe the ones that aren't proved should have asserts
16:28:40 <|amethyst> e.g. arena.cc
16:29:12 <|amethyst> also, I am looking forward to the day we have C++17
16:29:26 <amalloy> |amethyst: we are provably not breaking arena.cc, because it always derefs the monster already
16:29:40 <|amethyst> if (monster* other = monster_at(pos); other && to_respawn[other->mindex()] == -1)
16:30:08 <|amethyst> amalloy:  I know, but I worry that it might just happen not to crash
16:30:13 <|amethyst> especially with optimisations
16:30:36 <|amethyst> I'm saying it should have had an assert in the first place :)
16:30:40 <amalloy> |amethyst: sure. that is, the code may already be broken
16:30:42 <|amethyst> and since you're touching it...
16:31:42 <amalloy> |amethyst: monster_at(pos) is already checked, even in this case
16:31:47 <amalloy> on like 735
16:32:01 <|amethyst> oh
16:32:13 <|amethyst> shows what I get for only using -U10
16:32:36 <amalloy> github.com confirmed better dev tool than the terminal
16:32:39 <|amethyst> in that case IMO change other
16:32:48 <|amethyst> to be a reference
16:32:55 <amalloy> anyway i'm gonna go get lunch. will look over comments when i get back
16:34:00 <|amethyst> I guess inside a monster_iterator you're good, because it only returns nullptr at the end
16:35:01 <|amethyst> though I wonder if the current behaviour operator bool() returning false if the monster is dead could be a problem... if you kill a monster while iterating over it, the loop would stop early
16:35:12 <|amethyst> s/behaviour/behaviour of/
17:02:56 <|amethyst> hmm... a crash, but I think maybe unrelated to my change:  invalid map border at (79,27): granite_statue
17:03:40 <|amethyst> probably a buggy vault?
17:09:24 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-991-g93344ec (34)
17:24:22 <advil> |amethyst: thanks, I like the idea of a lightweight range class better after thinking it over. I think it makes more sense with the usual way of using end() also, since the way I did it you necessarily have to write it in two lines
17:24:22 <Sequell> advil: You have 6 messages. Use !messages to read them.
17:25:13 <advil> also, re the trapped formicid the other day, did anyone see the followup yet? https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/64eazf/my_formicid_is_literally_trapped_any_suggestions/
17:25:19 <advil> it's pretty great
17:25:34 <advil> Update: went through 20 floors of zig and escaped back. Was able to find shatter but not LRD. I was able to get earth to 23 and spellcasting to 15. I grabbed a ring of wiz and int while I was there and if I remove armor I can cast shatter at like 30%.
17:25:34 <advil> Taking a break for now, will update later.
17:25:35 <advil> Update #2: Shatter worked perfectly, giving me an escape route as can be seen here:
17:28:10 <advil> (not that we shouldn't fix the bug)
17:34:25 <gammafunk> heh
17:34:30 <gammafunk> that's a resourceful player
17:34:43 <gammafunk> I assume they were carrying a zigfig?
17:34:54 <gammafunk> the ultimate escape item...
17:35:32 -!- Shimatora_ is now known as Shimatora
17:37:02 -!- Menche is now known as ]{|[}\|{\[}|{]\[
17:38:41 <advil> they were, yeah
17:40:11 -!- ]{|[}\|{\[}|{]\[ is now known as ]{|[^\|{\[}|{^\[
17:41:39 <Cheibriados> 03amalloy02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/507 * 0.20-a0-953-g0d23802: Use monster& when it's known non-null (|amethyst) 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0d23802bee22
17:42:25 <amalloy> rip, that's what i get for editing in github
17:42:26 <Sequell> rip
17:46:05 -!- ]{|[^\|{\[}|{^\[ is now known as menche
17:46:49 <Cheibriados> 03amalloy02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/507 * 0.20-a0-953-g5b20b8e: Use monster& when it's known non-null (|amethyst) 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5b20b8eec288
17:51:59 <Cheibriados> 03amalloy02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/507 * 0.20-a0-953-gaf6ce2c: Use monster& when it's known non-null (|amethyst) 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/af6ce2cc417c
18:15:51 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.20-a0-991-g93344ec (34)
18:17:49 <Cheibriados> acquirement giving useless items 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=11006 by Sharkman1231
18:18:18 <advil> if it was form based that could be the first bug from my mutation cleanup!
18:26:49 <advil> but I'll have to fix it later this evening
18:49:51 <amalloy> things i love about git: git checkout 'master@{10 days ago}'
18:51:47 <amalloy> not actually perfect since it only looks at commits you checked out 10 days ago, but a reasonable approximation if you do stuff reasonably often
18:54:59 <amalloy> advil: i closed the bug; minotaurs can wear lear's
18:59:46 -!- Euph0ria is now known as diphenhydramineH
19:00:06 -!- diphenhydramineH is now known as diphenhydramine
19:09:25 <advil> amalloy: ah ok, thanks. I did a quick check and the acquirement code looks like it's doing the right things wrt forms.
19:19:52 -!- Dracunos_ is now known as Dracunos
20:22:21 <alexjurkiewicz> heaven on earth renamed?!
20:22:26 <alexjurkiewicz> that was like the best ability name ever
20:23:39 <alexjurkiewicz> hey, is Bu really renaming to Gnoll?
20:23:49 <alexjurkiewicz> gnoll is boring d&d, should rename the monster to Bu
20:24:30 <minmay> rename them to Kitsune
21:07:45 <alexjurkiewicz> what bow wielding uniques are there
21:07:47 <alexjurkiewicz> Nessos
21:08:45 <alexjurkiewicz> Vashnia
21:15:37 <minmay> there's also Joseph's sling, Urug's javelins, and other uniques that sometimes use missiles
21:15:42 <minmay> so quite a few missile uniques
21:27:39 <alexjurkiewicz> i'm going to submit a PR to rename shaolin, remove "Exotic" from lajatang, and rename shargna
21:40:36 <alexjurkiewicz> h - the "Forget Me not" (left hand) {EV+8} <-- some issues
21:42:49 <Cheibriados> 03amalloy02 07* 0.20-a0-992-g83084bd: Make monster_die take a monster& instead of a monster* 10(7 days ago, 32 files, 310+ 311-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/83084bd725b3
21:42:49 <Cheibriados> 03amalloy02 07* 0.20-a0-993-gba41c3c: Use monster& when it's known non-null (|amethyst) 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ba41c3cead46
21:44:01 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_
21:53:12 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/512 (4 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/512
21:53:12 <Cheibriados> 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/512 * 0.20-a0-992-ga313101: Ring of Shaolin -> "Forget Me Not" 10(12 hours ago, 14 files, 5+ 58-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a3131014c824
21:53:12 <Cheibriados> 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/512 * 0.20-a0-993-g7e5e71b: bow of Krishna "Sharnga" -> longbow "The First Bow" 10(12 hours ago, 9 files, 10+ 26-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7e5e71b3317e
21:53:12 <Cheibriados> 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/512 * 0.20-a0-994-ga083568: Bump up Piercer to +8 10(12 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a0835686a99a
21:53:12 <Cheibriados> 03alexjurkiewicz02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/512 * 0.20-a0-995-gc5e275d: Remove "imported" from lajatang description 10(12 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c5e275d0f367
22:00:13 <rumflump> I'd prefer for ring of shaolin to have an easier to remember name transition, fwiw
22:00:44 <hellmonk> lol if you don't take the ring of dodge city suggestion
22:01:02 <hellmonk> devs u have forced my hand once again...
22:01:04 <rumflump> dodge village
22:01:17 <rumflump> ring of shimmy and shake. ring of shifting out of the way. idk
22:04:57 <Doesnty> ring of the mirage
22:05:34 <Doesnty> intangibility
22:05:56 <hellmonk> thought: do we really need 3 unrand longbows
22:06:28 <CanOfWorms> make piercer a shortbow...?!
22:07:04 <Doesnty> add verylongbows
22:08:18 <CanOfWorms> longerbows
22:09:02 <Doesnty> even better
22:09:22 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-993-gba41c3c (34)
22:13:07 <minmay> alexjurkiewicz: ...you do realize that "Forget-Me-Not" is already a randart name right?
22:13:23 <minmay> but thx
22:21:41 <alexjurkiewicz> really?
22:21:46 <alexjurkiewicz> oh, randart, good catch
22:23:09 <minmay> (aside: it kind of disgusts me that I remembered that)
22:30:34 <Floodkiller> what about a shield of resistance and the Shield of Resistance?
22:31:22 <minmay> the ring "Fuk Da Sac"
22:55:50 <rumflump> what's the .des way to make something always show up, but not necessarily on the same floor? afaik, chance: 100% will just make it always show up at the shallowest depth it can
22:57:09 <rumflump> !calc 0.30 ** 5
22:57:10 <Sequell> 0
23:00:39 <CanOfWorms> "speaking of spire  I did find it odd that you have precise placement on a summon when everything else appears randomly"
23:02:16 <rumflump> those other things can move into position though. random spire could wind up in a completely useless position and never fire
23:03:18 <|amethyst> prism also has precise placement
23:03:28 <CanOfWorms> yeah, but prisms don't have a ranged attack
23:03:53 <CanOfWorms> could just make the spire follow forest rules and only spawn in a sufficiently open space
23:04:04 <CanOfWorms> then it'll be fairly hard for it to not be able to do anything
23:04:33 <|amethyst> IMO if it needs a nerf, reduce the damage before making it harder to use
23:04:48 <|amethyst> that's what makes it broken
23:05:15 <CanOfWorms> being able to place it wherever you want makes it very easy to trigger the bounce though!
23:06:03 <|amethyst> IMO getting bounces with careful placement is better than getting bounces as a random bonus
23:06:13 <|amethyst> could remove the bouncing
23:28:20 <minmay> being able to place spire wherever you want is extremely good for blocking line of fire
23:29:06 <minmay> especially since it's immune to so much stuff
23:57:55 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.20-a0-994-g2db1666: Don't let plants cause wall jump messaging (Yermak) 10(24 minutes ago, 4 files, 45+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2db166635ece
23:57:55 <Cheibriados> 03advil02 07* 0.20-a0-995-g9aa165b: Improve wall jump message when a monster is in the way 10(57 seconds ago, 1 file, 9+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9aa165be7ec3
23:58:37 <advil> not entirely happy with the iterator mods yet, but I did want to fix the actual problem
23:59:23 <advil> this change does allow "for (monster* m : monster_near_iterator(you.pos(), LOS_NO_TRANS))"!