00:00:02 I accept that people will still ultimately disagree 00:00:23 I just don't like the trend of seemingly reflexive disagreement. Maybe I'm interpreting things wrongly 00:00:46 maybe it will be less an issue for him eventually; I still think they don't really achieve their design, but they'd not be the first species to do that 00:01:04 it's this "puppers" meme 00:01:06 I think it's very possible that the 7 thing is too late for Bultungin to achieve the goal of "strong early, weak late" 00:01:19 5 or 6 for the stepdowns to start is reasonable, if 7 isn't 00:01:29 puppers are VERY good, and cuddly. 00:01:35 even when they slaver and bite your face off. 00:01:59 I still don't see how you are going to accomplish "weak late" without either really low skill caps or really low attributes 00:02:41 minmay, that's the thing -- it's a dramatic adjustment to how the vast majority of players, even good (or great)players play, because you're going to see reasonable cap-outs at 12-14 (or lower if they're adjusted further) instead of 16-18 00:03:08 That makes a significant difference, IMHO, in how I'd approach stuff like V:$, Depths, and Zot 00:03:16 hm shouldn't Bu get a recommendation for Wz since it uses (theoretically) so many skills 00:03:17 what if there was a race that started with Dg stats and lost them as they leveled up... 00:03:23 And in testing I ended up having to resort to a much more motley assortment of spells than usual 00:03:23 then give them like -3 aptitudes 00:03:58 it's like the Loremaster conduct from tournaments 00:04:02 But on a race that's slightly m ore forgiving about it 00:04:38 it's not really weak late, it's "spread more XP across skills" or "scum more XP" 00:04:56 You're right, I really shouldn't be saying "weak late" 00:05:05 It's more like "more varied late" 00:05:17 they may have a learning curve thing going (in the sense of players having to learn how to play them) 00:05:22 Using multiple low level spells vs a couple of high level spells and a highly-trained weapon 00:05:41 Brannock: how many !brill did you end with 00:05:46 omg 00:05:48 lol 00:05:50 is that..... 00:05:54 the spicy one.... 00:05:58 I didn't test them THAT thoroughly!! 00:06:05 Now that they're merged in trunk I'm gonna win one soon 00:06:08 if scumming xp is a good idea, which species is it not a good idea on? 00:06:23 species that get enough xp normally to win sooner 00:06:30 which will be a lot of them! 00:06:31 interesting thread about !mutation changes https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/63xfqc/whats_your_approach_with_the_new_potions_of/?st=j17b5cyk&sh=1e6fff47 00:06:51 "They are not usually plentiful enough to use as anything more than cure mutation replacements." 00:06:58 well, Bu gets a huge advantage for low skill levels. If a player is shrewd enough to figure out Zot with "broad skill set" vs "focused skill set" then I could see them winning as early as other species 00:06:59 if not earlier 00:07:17 maybe the time has just finally come 00:07:22 remove puppers, add difficulty levels 00:07:34 just remove exp scumming 00:07:43 literally why leave an unlimited amount of exp in the game 00:07:45 honestlY I think the aptitude system is just straight up bad 00:07:58 and if I was making a new roguelike from scratch I wouldn't have "this species learns faster than others" 00:08:08 maybe if skill level cost was fixed? 00:08:13 it'd be something like "this species is flat out better at any level X than others" and be much more restricted about it 00:08:21 yeah dcss has just a general problem with "too much granularity" 00:08:26 yes, agreed completely 00:08:26 my cyno beat zot using primarily evo and laj... which really any species could do, so I have no idea whether that even says anything about cynos at all 00:08:30 I guess that started back in linely crawl 00:08:37 extremely high granularity means a much easier time finding the 'margins' 00:10:03 if anyone has a good but too radical for mainstream idea for better skilling I would be willing to consider a pr 00:10:09 I think something like 00:10:14 since you have one-way levels 00:10:28 with increasing level let the player somehow choose points 00:10:38 I guess you could do this with XL gain 00:10:47 can confirm, hellcrawl is the best place to submit a PR on the internet 00:10:48 which might make more sense, as you have XP still 00:11:02 that's only because hellmonk reads them while drunk, probably 00:11:09 that's the best way to make design decisions 00:11:14 commit drunk; reconsider sober 00:11:22 too easy 00:11:50 it's more consider drunk; reconsider sober; forget about it and go back to it in a couple weeks 00:12:52 gammafunk, I've been sincerely curious about this for a few weeks now. what are these things about Cogmind you don't like? I'm actually on the brink of buying that game for a weekend playthrough tomorrow 00:13:08 oh, don't worry about it 00:13:16 honestly you'll find it more interesting to look at it yourself 00:13:34 it's a fun game to learn, I found, and the flaws become apparent as you figure out the game 00:13:36 hellmonk: basically do EO style tree skilling 00:13:54 Alright. I'll pick it up tomorrow after work and then power through the game 00:13:57 replayability is less than DCSS due to no crazy combo system (nor gods) 00:14:06 you only invest in skills when you hit a new level, you get a set number of points to spend... 00:14:23 when I said "I would be willing to consider a pr" I meant "somebody else needs to code this for me so I can implement it" 00:14:31 I know 00:14:43 hellmonk speaking universal truths 00:14:45 I'm just tossing you the ball so you can get some sap to do it for you 00:15:32 CanOfWorms, what tiles were you planning to do for 0.20? 00:15:54 I need to fix the amulet tiles so that randart amulets can be differentiated at a glance 00:16:00 that's the main one 00:16:12 can I add a request 00:16:25 depends on what the request is...!!! 00:16:28 frilled lizards are recolored giant newts and need actual frills 00:16:41 right, those things need tweaks 00:16:41 but no really I think revamping amulet tiles is actually a good idea 00:16:55 I pick up generic amulets all the time and am then disappointed 00:17:57 but I think that goes back to the whole "egos need work" thing 00:19:47 !always don't put on floor amulets 00:19:48 ADPOFA! A-Always! D-Don't! P-Put! O-On! F-Floor! A-Amulets! Always Don't Put On Floor Amulets! ALWAYS DON'T PUT ON FLOOR AMULETS! 00:24:29 merge lizards and geckos 00:31:32 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-967-g62cfa5d (34) 00:32:47 mibe (the player) has me curious now. if someone hosted a server with all the usual fixings - webtiles, dgamelaunch, morgues, pull trunk updates at midnight. whatever else 00:32:55 BUT it had no ghosts 00:33:01 would it be an "official server"? 00:33:08 hmm 00:33:26 I mean, that's not TOO much different from a highly active server that quashes ghosts as soon as they spawn 00:33:34 for the *average* player 00:33:58 cwz's modifications are cosmetic only, right? 00:36:21 commensurate question: 00:36:31 if someone hosted a server with all the usual fixings - webtiles, dgamelaunch, morgues, pull trunk updates at midnight. whatever else 00:36:32 BUT it had no ghosts 00:36:45 how long would it take for people to notice it has no ghosts 00:37:14 ??epic bugs[melee 00:37:16 probably longer than it takes to become an "official server"! 00:37:21 meleebug[1/2]: The git commit e0bdd66 roughly doubled player melee damage. This was not fixed until around halfway through the 0.16 tournament. http://s-z.org/neil/images/logicbug.jpg 00:37:22 hmm 00:37:35 btw, new new monk is very, very bad 00:37:54 need a new new new monk so it can be very, very, very bad 00:38:11 it is unironically worse than unarmed combat monk 00:38:36 well monk got moved into the Adventurer category, which I think means finally admitting that it's a challenge background 00:39:43 fr move chei into the adventurer category 00:39:58 S N A I L K N I G H T 00:39:59 servers don't become "official" until they're added to sequell and we include them in tourneys 00:40:26 tbh I'd rather start with chei and a weapon than play new new monk 00:41:04 I mean it probably wouldn't work now that the possibility has been mentioned, but I imagine if someone started a server with no ghosts it would take a while for anyone to notice anything wrong 00:41:38 Like you wouldn't think "that's weird I didn't find any ghosts" if you win a game without finding any ghosts, probably 00:41:40 which we've been avoided adding new ones unless we really need a new server in a particular region, at least until we get user authentication in a better spot 00:41:44 because I'm sure I've won a game without finding any ghosts and not noticed it 00:41:59 how many unofficial servers are there? 00:42:07 if any 00:42:26 a few random ones; I've heard of players running their own local servers for playing with friends 00:42:33 these are healthy, imo 00:42:40 honestly I'm very split on the ghosts question 00:42:48 the lack of gkills would come up in the tourney at least 00:43:11 on one hand I agree that the variability isn't appropriate to crawl, but on the other it's not like crawl doesn't have swingy spawns early on re: uniques. or even later on 00:43:14 Yes, I think people would first notice that they aren't getting any gkills...but that would still take a long time and even longer to connect it to the server you're playing on 00:43:17 !lg * bu s=name 00:43:17 No keyword 'bu' 00:43:30 !lg * race=bu 00:43:31 No games for * (race=bu). 00:43:37 !lg . x=race 00:43:38 2010. [race=Bultungin] chequers the Martial Artist (L9 BuTm of Ashenzari), slain by a dream sheep on D:8 (lair_entry_dummy) on 2017-04-07 04:00:22, with 3217 points after 11359 turns and 0:22:58. 00:43:40 Brannock: I don't think variability is one of the common complaints about ghosts 00:43:43 well, there's the gnollcrawl server, brannock, but it doesn't host an unofficial spin of trunk, just forks 00:43:46 !lg * race=Bultungin 00:43:47 5. chequers the Martial Artist (L9 BuTm of Ashenzari), slain by a dream sheep on D:8 (lair_entry_dummy) on 2017-04-07 04:00:22, with 3217 points after 11359 turns and 0:22:58. 00:43:49 oh, hey, 2k games 00:44:02 !kw bu race=Bultungin 00:44:03 Defined keyword: bu => race=Bultungin 00:44:04 !kw dr 00:44:05 Built-in: dr => crace=~*draconian 00:44:26 !learn add Bultungin A hyena-headed species that learns skills very quickly, but has significant trouble mastering them after early levels. Can smell items from out of LOS. 00:44:27 Bultungin[1/1]: A hyena-headed species that learns skills very quickly, but has significant trouble mastering them after early levels. Can smell items from out of LOS. 00:44:27 !kw bu crace=Bultungin 00:44:28 Defined keyword: bu => crace=Bultungin 00:44:41 not sure it would make any difference, but for consistency with the others 00:44:53 hyena...-headed? 00:44:54 lol 00:45:03 I'm not sure about that flavor myself, tbh 00:45:11 was modeling off floodkiller's initial "dog-headed" 00:45:20 Bultungin are were-hyenas, according to African mythology 00:45:20 this is like that one stephen king novel 00:45:28 might just make them full on demi-hyenas, or whatever 00:45:33 where a dude like cuts off his head, puts a dragon's head on 00:45:38 quick, make them platypus headed before anyone starts playing one 00:45:38 eyes of the dragon? 00:45:46 no, that was another book 00:45:47 probably? I've obviously not read this book 00:45:57 carrie! 00:46:14 carrie doesn't have dragons, does it 00:46:14 it does not 00:46:48 you must have missed that bit 00:47:07 wow, the new Stephen King book covers suck 00:47:14 I know, I know, don't judge books by their cover 00:47:24 but these covers make the books look like 00s popcorn mystery investigation 00:48:26 ??mr 00:48:27 magic resistance[1/5]: Magic resistance is the ability to ignore hostile enchantments or some other magic. Player MR comes from XL, Trog's Hand, and items. The most important hostile monster enchantments are confuse, slow, deep elf sorcerer/wizard/ogre mage/Erolcha/Louise banishment, lich/orc sorcerer/great orb of eyes/sphinx paralysis. 00:48:32 ??mr[dr 00:48:32 magic_resistance[3/5]: Monster MR is a property of the monster type and HD. Player MR is XL * racial-multiplier + 40 per item, mutation level, or artefact + of MR, or for being in lichform. Racial factor is 7 for Sp, 6 for purple Dr, Fe and DD, 5 for Na, Mu and VS, 4 for elves, Dg, Vp, Fo and Og, and 3 for everyone else. 00:48:45 was it really neccessary to give Bu 2 MR/level? 00:48:46 should add a Bu entry to that, yeah 00:48:50 yet another hidden difference 00:49:09 just pull hellmonk's commit that displays MR on the % screen 00:49:16 it's not baseline? 00:49:21 did I actually do that or did you make it up 00:49:24 I'm pretty sure we display MR 00:49:25 er, sorry :P 00:49:25 genuinely can't remember 00:49:37 puts MR/level... somewhere else that it isn't usually 00:49:40 on the apt screen! 00:49:47 which is % in newgames. 00:49:55 should display it as a number and not pips though, for real 00:49:57 the commit message says 2/level 00:50:02 yes 00:50:06 i didn't check the actual code 00:50:10 it's 2/level 00:50:21 !source species-data.h:69 00:50:21 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/species-data.h#L69 00:50:30 that 4th number is the MR 00:50:47 %git 1733a3173e 00:50:47 Could not find commit 1733a3173e (git returned 128) 00:51:00 too many 3s 00:51:05 whats the rationale for bad mr 00:51:24 fr: give fighters ring not scale mail at start 00:51:34 https://github.com/Hellmonk/hellcrawl/commit/1733a3173e6bf6240b67244e708efec7307ab7a7 00:51:49 fr: merge that 00:52:34 bookmarking to look at tomorrow 00:52:40 I think I pulled that stuff from some other branch or maybe even trunk 00:52:41 but I'm hesitant about adding per-level to % 00:52:47 instead of flat-out "this is what you have right now" 00:52:58 which... % already has, for MR 00:53:08 yeah, not in-game %. ?% in-game, it's only % on the newgame screen 00:53:13 oh I see 00:53:21 that sounds better 00:53:22 I misspoke it 01:20:34 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-967-g62cfa5d (34) 01:56:16 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 01:58:58 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-967-g62cfa5d 02:31:11 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 02:54:50 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-967-g62cfa5d 03:24:33 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-967-g62cfa5d (34) 03:25:58 ^status 03:25:58 12 Crawlers. CBRO disk usage=83% (135GB) | RAM usage=16% (4GB)| uptime/CPU= 03:25:57 up 35 days, 8:04, 0 users, load average: 0.44, 0.99, 0.88 (4 Cores) http://status.berotato.org 03:49:22 gammafunk: @would you consider adding MarvinPA to the Tavern admin group - done 03:49:30 Napkin: tyvm! 03:49:55 !tell MarvinPA Napkin added you to Tavern admins, please remove everyone :) 03:49:56 gammafunk: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 03:50:15 (that last part was a joke) 06:21:03 !tell napkin sorry to be a pain - gammafunk was asking about adding to the "administrators" group (since i'm currently a mod but not an admin, we don't have many people active who can do things like promote new mods/adjust subforums/change group permissions etc), i think you added me to "server admins" (which is just a visual thing to mark people who run crawl servers) 06:21:03 Maximum message length is 340 characters, but you had 358. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 06:21:07 rip 06:21:32 really? 06:21:36 rip 06:22:25 sorry - fixed 06:22:36 no worries, thanks! 06:23:35 don't do updates though, i'm worried the single-sign-on with Mantis would break 06:50:53 ah yeah, sure 07:21:13 !tell dpeg re: level size, a long standing idea I've had is to make the abyss "smaller" as you go down 07:21:14 bh: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 07:23:48 ### 07:23:49 #@# 07:23:51 ### 07:23:56 like that? :) 07:24:20 bhaak: I thought I fixed that bug 07:24:35 More that at Abyss:5 you shouldn't be able to swing a dead cat without hitting a rune vault 07:25:14 that's not a screenshot from an actual game :-D 07:25:46 ^ it's happened, though 07:26:01 I'm all for making roguelikes faster to play. smaller levels are one way to get there. 07:26:22 just clarified that I don't send you on a bug hunt :) 07:27:14 sporkhack had ... erm I think still has ... where you got placed at 0,0 when starting the game. most often that was just stone all around you :-D 07:27:28 apart from difficulty, it'd be nice if the abyss looked different level to level 08:44:00 03advil02 07[mutation_cleanup] * 0.20-a0-951-g5ac0f12: Have wizmode level change always affect Ds mutations 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 76+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5ac0f12e049a 08:44:13 ugh didn't mean to push that 08:44:18 well, good thing it's in a branch 08:45:40 and it works anyways, so it's ok 08:45:52 (in other news, "git add -p"!!) 11:20:09 smaller levels don't necessarily mean faster, especially if monster spawn frequency remains the same. more concentrated fights are more complex and take longer to clear out 11:20:09 Brannock: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 11:20:14 not that I disagree about making the game shorter 12:26:00 So I suspected that it would be trivial to make either both 1h m&f + shield or 2h m&f hyena head using fighting/armour/dodging(/+shield if 1h) to 15, weapon to min delay, invo to 10, throwing-or-evo to 12 using a typical skill progression 12:26:25 and it was 12:29:22 easilly had those skills by xl25 for 1h, had quite close to those skills for 2h (with weapon at min delay well before 25, using dire flail for 1h before the great mace was ready) 12:29:33 this is without taking into account something like Okawaru's hero 12:30:46 just to fully disprove this notion that players will somehow stop training skills at 12 (or even 14) 12:33:38 like I said last night, perhaps the curve needs to start going up earlier. I'm not thrilled by the okawaru/ashenzari interaction, either, but I have no opinion yet on how to handle that. These numbers seem kind of low for XL25, but I've been playing a ton of Demonspawn recently so my mental model is going to be colored by that 12:33:58 s/numbers/skill levels/ 12:34:52 And even then I think it's still going to be worthwhile to dip into multiple spell schools instead of/before pushing melee combat skills higher 12:46:16 oh, nice, someone won a Bu already 12:46:20 !log * bu won 12:46:21 1. Croases, XL27 BuVM, T:148040: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Croases/morgue-Croases-20170407-153112.txt 13:14:40 "Bultungins", huh? 13:27:29 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-967-g62cfa5d (34) 13:31:05 it's an anagram of built-in 13:31:23 this speacies is directly implemented in GCC 13:31:26 *species 13:31:29 lol 13:35:33 my quick scanning on my phone revealed that pretty much everyone is calling them either gnolls, not-gnolls, hyenas, or an april fool's joke 13:35:48 AF sounds like a good species abbreviation, so let's go with that 13:36:28 maybe bultungin were too ambitious 13:37:07 I just want to play as a gnoll fam 13:38:01 !lg * gn 13:38:11 3547. Zardoz the Charm-Maker (L1 GnEn), blasted by Sigmund (magic dart) on D:2 on 2010-03-01 07:39:36, with 18 points after 22 turns and 0:01:06. 13:38:17 seven years, eh 13:39:55 I don't think we're worried about time 13:40:19 we're worried about the technical issue of having two species with the same abbreviation in sequell 13:40:43 Basajaun already do this as an experimental, but gnomes were in stable versions 13:41:22 !makewords Go 13:41:33 GoAE GoAK GoAM GoAr GoAs GoBe GoCK GoCj GoEE GoEn GoFE GoFi GoGl GoHu GoIE GoMo GoNe GoSk GoSu GoTm GoVM GoWn GoWr GoWz 13:42:12 !makewords Hy 13:42:21 HyAE HyAK HyAM HyAr HyAs HyBe HyCK HyCj HyEE HyEn HyFE HyFi HyGl HyHu HyIE HyMo HyNe HySk HySu HyTm HyVM HyWn HyWr HyWz 13:43:20 if they had the same abbreviation, would this mean that both would show up when you do a search for something starting with Gn, or would something more fucky happen 13:43:40 gosu is a good combo 13:44:35 right alongside dgwn 13:47:51 yeah they'd show up in all sorts of command output in ways that would either make the output bad or possibly mess up the command; that might be addressable in sequell in some way, it's a question for snark 13:49:42 it may be possible to simply use the normal designation of Gn => crace=Gnoll and then have the built-ins that refer to Gn-- always have crace!=Gnome, I guess 13:50:27 yeah bultungin was a failed attempt, feel free to rename them to gnolls 13:50:30 or I can do it 13:50:46 gammafunk, would that require modification to Sequell's code? 13:51:07 it's a question for snark 13:51:23 maybe for neil; I'm not sure if it causes technical issues in general 13:53:30 !makewords Gl 13:53:39 GlAE GlAK GlAM GlAr GlAs GlBe GlCK GlCj GlEE GlEn GlFE GlFi GlGl GlHu GlIE GlMo GlNe GlSk GlSu GlTm GlVM GlWn GlWr GlWz 13:53:45 GlAM is great 13:54:38 ^ 13:57:55 \/ 13:57:59 I downvoted you dude 14:03:13 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRYNYb30nxU new patch looking great 14:05:23 hmm 14:05:56 looking into the rename, MONS_GNOLL already exists as an enum, and last night's merge created a new enum... 14:07:32 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-968-gb9f0da5: Fix item detection interactions with Ashenzari and Jiyva 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b9f0da5b98f3 14:07:32 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-969-g3f209a8: Remove some flavour overkill 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3f209a8f62ea 14:09:15 imo dont use Gl because then "!lg * gl" won't work 14:13:34 I wonder if it would break saves if that monster enum for MONS_BULTUNGIN was simply removed. I don't think there's any possible way to spawn them as a monster ingame right now. 14:15:10 I think it could for shapeshifters 14:15:48 ah, right 14:16:03 guess I'll just leave it as MONS_BULTUNGIN and mark it for removal? 14:16:15 wow, flavour overkill indeed 14:16:35 yeah, that was a bit much 14:16:46 that's a good bug though 14:17:16 I think the safest thing is an AXED mons, yeah, but maybe someone knows save compat better could comment further 14:18:24 are they being namechanged again 14:19:37 proof of shapeshifting imo. 14:19:56 new race: shapeshifter 14:20:04 uses the equivalent of wizmode &r every turn 14:23:17 oh no, I come back and the dog joke got removed, rip 14:24:36 also, shapeshifters shouldn't be an issue for MONS_BULTUNGIN because it's flagged as M_NO_POLY_TO 14:25:36 the only thing that might be an issue is vaults that spawn the base of the species, which is the only reason I created a dummy monster for them in the first place 14:27:42 New branch created: gnoll (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/gnoll 14:27:42 03Brannock02 07[gnoll] * 0.20-a0-968-ge3bffe7: Rename Bultungin to Gnoll 10(34 seconds ago, 15 files, 75+ 91-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e3bffe7b176d 14:27:49 okay, putting up a branch that can be merged whenever Sequell gets addressed 14:29:50 well it's not really any cost to add an AXED mons 14:30:35 who knew names were so complicated 14:31:36 "There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation and naming things." 14:32:48 http://i.imgur.com/cYFV7Pa.png 14:33:25 <|amethyst> geekosaur: I prefer: "There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors" 14:33:42 heh 14:34:27 can't add a new moon species unless it has an armour 14:34:35 <|amethyst> moon dog hide 14:34:41 <|amethyst> which can be worn by Grum 14:34:53 <|amethyst> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moondog 14:34:55 Floodkiller: I don't understand, but I like it 14:36:55 Floodkiller: you do realize that the same basic skill training as for Fi/Gl/Be will work just fine for Bu 14:40:05 well, the same basic training for every other background also works 14:40:40 right, those were just examples 14:46:59 alternatives to Gnoll that don't involve messing with Sequell: Foo Gnolls 14:47:27 <|amethyst> Brannock: to go with Bar Achim 14:47:28 <|amethyst> ? 14:47:35 haha 14:47:59 oh, now that you're here, gammafunk was wondering whether there would be other interactions with having Gnoll use Gn and it conflicting with Gnome 14:48:08 <|amethyst> !lg * gn 14:48:12 3547. Zardoz the Charm-Maker (L1 GnEn), blasted by Sigmund (magic dart) on D:2 on 2010-03-01 07:39:36, with 18 points after 22 turns and 0:01:06. 14:48:30 <|amethyst> !lg * gn s=cv 14:48:30 3547 games for * (gn): 1858x 0.4, 779x 0.3, 640x 0.2, 195x 0.1, 75x 0.5 14:48:51 <|amethyst> hm, I'm not sure if saves that old saved the full species name 14:48:59 <|amethyst> re the save browser 14:49:04 <|amethyst> might be good to make one and test with it 14:51:52 <|amethyst> assuming you can still get those versions to compile... 14:52:01 <|amethyst> also, I had not realised they were around for that long 14:52:49 %git 0.4.0 14:52:49 Could not find commit 0.4.0 (git returned 128) 14:53:20 <|amethyst> %git 0.4 14:53:20 07jpeg02 * 0.4: Tagging of 0.4 for release. 10(9 years ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/13e6483b50e3 14:58:58 03Brannock02 07* 0.20-a0-970-gcd8f41e: Update Monk description 10(23 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cd8f41eed80d 15:07:32 can we try 0 stealth yet, to make monks train good skills faster? 15:07:48 I have no idea how strong the effect minmay mentioned is, but it worries my heart 15:08:49 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 15:08:59 Monks are something that now need fixing, although I'm not sure how to do it 15:09:36 in a way that compromises with the recent change (which was trying to get at making them more differentiated) with important issue of them not being weak (and unfun) 15:09:40 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-970-gcd8f41e (34) 15:10:04 fighting 15, 0 everything else! 15:10:20 I know elliptic was spitballing a few ideas, but i'm not sure that he came up with anything specific 15:11:21 what ideas were these? 15:11:35 I don't think they were complete 15:11:39 NOTE: If you don't care about Crawl's theme/flavour at all, or you unironically complain about "political correctness", you should probably go back to complaining about food or high elves instead of "participating" here. 15:11:42 <|amethyst> rumflump: was minmay talking about skill cost level? 15:11:51 really, was that the best way to begin that post? 15:12:02 yes 15:12:05 no 15:12:18 fr: remove high elves further 15:12:45 like you can state that you care about these issues without trying to leverage it into some insult to other people 15:12:47 yeah, the whole "0 stealth would unironically make current monk better" thing. due to the skill cost thing. 15:13:30 <|amethyst> skill_cost_level doesn't work that way 15:13:41 <|amethyst> specifically, it starts at 1 for everyone 15:13:43 !source skill_cost_level 15:13:44 1/2. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/player.h#L230 15:13:47 !source skill_cost_level 2 15:13:48 2/2. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/skills.h#L22 15:13:55 <|amethyst> you're looking for calls to check_skill_cost_change 15:13:58 ah 15:14:14 !source skills.cc:1022 15:14:15 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/skills.cc#L1022 15:14:25 and 1089, 1163 15:14:35 wait, really? so giving a background more/fewer starting skill points doesn't change the cost of additional points? 15:14:52 <|amethyst> as far as I can tell 15:15:06 <|amethyst> yeah, it uses you.total_experience 15:15:12 <|amethyst> !source check_skill_cost_change 15:15:12 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/skills.cc#L1000 15:15:13 I always thought that included starting skills... 15:15:29 Well, I'm dumb then 15:15:54 are Monks Good yet? 15:18:19 well you could make mummies better but still bad 15:18:25 we've done it! 15:19:07 what about giving monks a weapon choice, but no skill in it? 15:19:19 it'd be better to just start them with a dagger or club 15:20:37 brass knuckles 15:33:50 <|amethyst> minmay: re Wucad Mu being "at least theoretically correct pinyin", do any Chinese languages have -d ? 15:34:21 <|amethyst> Cantonese doesn't, and it has more final stops than most 15:34:38 It's possible it isn't, I didn't think about it for long 15:35:16 but it's not as obviously fake as "Ieoh" at least :P 15:41:43 club would be fun. no one ever gets to start with clubs. sad! 15:45:52 let them pick a manual instead of a weapon. 15:45:57 steelneuron learned wushu in a real dojo, so don't make fun of his naming choices 15:46:22 he could perform some kind of flying kick that would end your elf dreams for good 15:46:31 <|amethyst> "Ieoh" mostly made me think of Old MacDonald 15:47:26 isn't the vowel order wrong? 15:47:31 <|amethyst> meh 15:48:55 Old MacDonald had a permutation, I-E-I-E-Oh 15:48:59 haha 15:50:46 <|amethyst> Old MacDonald's system call / Returned EIO 15:51:20 canadian's response to the old name: Ieoh, eh? 15:52:12 was the original name supposed to rhyme with Iroh or nah? 15:52:38 s/ or nah// 16:19:43 minmay (L16 BuCK) ASSERT(in_non_diamond_int(r.start)) in 'ray.cc' at line 217 failed. (D:14) 16:19:59 I guess lightning rod doesn't like it when you get blinked in the middle of using it 16:21:47 good job, buck. way to screw things up again 16:21:57 <|amethyst> it's unrelated to the blinking 16:22:01 o 16:22:33 <|amethyst> I bet if you go back to the same coordinate and target it again, you'll crash again 16:23:11 rumflump, I think it was supposed to rememble 'wu' 16:24:42 <|amethyst> minmay: hm, actually, maybe it is related to being blinked, in that that could give you an angle you wouldn't otherwise be able to get 16:25:00 yes, exactly 16:25:11 it was basically 16:25:14 T......@ 16:25:18 evoked lightning rod at snorg 16:25:25 then xom swapped it to @.....T 16:25:29 evoked lightning rod at snorg again, crashed 16:26:40 <|amethyst> ah, yes 16:26:57 <|amethyst> ray = {r = {start = {x = -nan(0x8000000000000), y = -nan(0x8000000000000)}, dir = {x = -nan(0x8000000000000), y = -nan(0x8000000000000)}} 16:27:03 nice 16:27:18 can we replace travis with xom 16:27:34 <|amethyst> it's pretty close already 16:28:12 <|amethyst> "'Take this token of my esteem.' The build has errored." 16:28:53 ??travis 16:28:53 travis[1/2]: travis runs automatic builds of Crawl and its branches, ensuring that they compile properly, and running Crawl's tests on the subsequent builds to look for errors or crashes. See: https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/ 16:28:58 ??travis[2 16:28:59 travis[2/2]: Travis can't be bargained with. Travis can't be reasoned with. Travis doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And Travis absolutely will not stop, ever, until your project is dead. 16:35:54 !lg * gnoll won x=fifteenskills 16:35:55 No keyword 'gnoll' 16:36:30 !lg * species=Bultungins won x=fifteenskills 16:36:30