00:42:35 alexjurkiewicz: i had a fort that got invaded by weresheep, so i abandoned the fort and started a new one 00:43:02 and then the second fort had a master cheese maker who also happened to be a weresheep in the first migration 00:43:25 so i sent everyone i suspected of being a weresheep off to die fighting giant monitor lizards 00:44:23 then 4 of my 5 remaining dwarfs died of thirst because the brewer was so committed to taking his break that he died of dehydration too 00:45:48 no water? 00:45:59 haha 00:46:00 no 00:46:07 i picked a map with no water 00:46:17 well, there was eventually some in the caverns 00:46:38 yeah, it's generally but not always possible to find water in caverns 00:46:42 that fort actually turned out pretty good 00:46:55 once i buried all the corpses and got rid of all the ghosts 00:47:12 but it was funny when it was just the one dwarf and the two children doing everything 00:47:53 the kids would helpfully pick the plump helmets that needed harvesting 00:48:00 and just drop them in some random bedroom 00:49:05 meanwhile the dwarf that was in charge of everything managed to get good at everything 00:49:22 so she was basically my best dwarf for any random task for like the next two years 00:56:12 were the kids ordered to harvest? or do they just pick up random things and move them? 01:00:01 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-910-gb611367 (34) 01:02:47 rumflump: you can't order children to do anything 01:02:57 they just 'want to help!' 01:03:20 basically they occasionally pick an item to be hauled and move it somewhere slightly closer to its destination 01:03:26 lol 01:03:27 yeah 01:03:30 more or less 01:04:18 they often will drop shit off in a place that is technically closer 01:04:37 but because of z-level differences, is actually farther away 01:05:34 because it's right above the food warehouse, but it's like 80 tiles away if you have to count the stairs that need to be taken 03:04:12 j 03:12:02 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 03:18:42 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-910-gb611367 (34) 03:36:53 Ratty (L14 MiBe) ASSERT(item.base_type == OBJ_ARMOUR) in 'item-prop.cc' at line 1457 failed. (D:13) 04:01:57 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 11:47:17 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:05:18 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-910-gb611367 (34) 15:46:20 !learn del ba[2] 15:46:20 ba has only 1 entry. 15:46:29 !learn del barachian[2] 15:46:29 Deleted barachian[2/5]: Ba: Fighting: 1, Short: 0, Long: 1, Axes: 0, Maces: 0, Polearms: -1, Staves: 0, Slings: -1, Bows: -1, Xbows: -1, Throw: -1, Armour: 1, Dodge: 0, Stealth: 1, Shields: 0, UC: 0, Splcast: -1, Conj: 0, Hexes: 0, Charms: 0, Summ: 1, Nec: -1, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 0, Fire: 0, Ice: 1, Air: 0, Earth: -1, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 0, Exp: 0, HP: 0, MP: 0 MR: 3* Stats: 9/8/7 sid/5 15:46:41 ??barachian[3 15:46:41 barachian[3/4]: http://i.imgur.com/A6n0jg1.jpg 15:46:43 ??barachian[4 15:46:43 barachian[4/4]: http://i.imgur.com/23atM.jpg 15:46:46 ??barachi 15:46:46 I don't have a page labeled barachi in my learndb. 15:46:52 !lg * ba x=race 15:46:53 7127. [race=Barachi] GravitySqueeze the Slasher (L1 BaMo), quit the game on D:1 (minmay_arrival_three_doors) on 2017-03-23 19:45:44, with 0 points after 0 turns and 0:00:01. 15:47:00 !learn mv barachian barachi 15:47:01 barachian -> barachi[1/4]: New frog-like species in trunk. Has a Hop ability letting the player choose a spot up to 4 tiles away, landing them randomly in a 5x5 area. Range upgrades to 6 at XL13. Barachians have Slow 1 (move 1.2, faster than Na), are amphibious, and have average stats and apts (see barachian[2]). In addition, they have +1 LOS for a total of 8. 15:47:12 !learn add barachian see {Barachi} 15:47:13 barachian[1/1]: see {Barachi} 15:47:17 ??frog 15:47:17 barachi[1/4]: New frog-like species in trunk. Has a Hop ability letting the player choose a spot up to 4 tiles away, landing them randomly in a 5x5 area. Range upgrades to 6 at XL13. Barachians have Slow 1 (move 1.2, faster than Na), are amphibious, and have average stats and apts (see barachian[2]). In addition, they have +1 LOS for a total of 8. 15:47:32 ??ba 15:47:33 barachi[1/4]: New frog-like species in trunk. Has a Hop ability letting the player choose a spot up to 4 tiles away, landing them randomly in a 5x5 area. Range upgrades to 6 at XL13. Barachians have Slow 1 (move 1.2, faster than Na), are amphibious, and have average stats and apts (see barachian[2]). In addition, they have +1 LOS for a total of 8. 15:47:36 !apt ba 15:47:37 Ba: Fighting: 2, Short: 1, Long: 2!, Axes: 1, Maces: 1, Polearms: 0, Staves: 1, Slings: 0, Bows: 0, Xbows: 0, Throw: 0, Armour: 2!, Dodge: 1, Stealth: 0, Shields: 1, UC: 1!, Splcast: 0, Conj: 1, Hexes: 1, Charms: 1, Summ: 2!, Nec: -1, Tloc: 1, Tmut: 1, Fire: 1, Ice: 2!, Air: 1, Earth: 0, Poison: 1, Inv: -1*, Evo: 1, Exp: 0, HP: 0, MP: 0 15:51:36 high-value game-design advice: https://twitter.com/daisyowl/status/817158520403439616 15:54:06 sigh, guess amalloy's return to DCSS videos is going to be delayed by *another* new game 16:25:57 does zin hate contamination, or does zin just hate it because it can mutate you? 16:25:57 rumflump: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:56:05 rumflump: last i checked, zin gets angry if you contaminate yourself a lot. voluntarily at least, eg i've done it by chaining like 6 ?blinking 16:56:31 maybe he doesn't mind accidents like miscasting, i dunno 16:57:59 I'm just pondering whether zin is meant to be opposed to contamination as a rule, or just happens to be anti-contam because he knows what it leads to. because plutonians are contaminated, but they don't mutate from it 17:00:52 rumflump: he forbids attacking with the plutonium sword 17:01:07 imo that is a close enough parallel that he should not accept worship from a plutonian at all 17:01:07 good point! 17:02:16 currently, zin accepts Pu worship, but gets angry if you voluntarily detonate 17:02:27 |amethyst: are you able to make a 0.19 version of chei? Currently %?? is 0.20 and %? is 0.18, with no 0.19 available anywhere 17:02:44 s/chei/chei's monster/ 17:02:58 fr: Cheibriados' Monster, to appear in a special wizlab 17:04:54 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I was having problems getting a version built that would run on Chei's server, since it has an old libc and libstdc++ 17:05:21 oh, yeah, you were unable to use one I had built earlier, as I recall 17:06:18 <|amethyst> gammafunk: let me see if I can get a 32-bit statically linked binary to work 17:06:53 thanks, and of course no worries if you can't; I had forgotten about the build issues 17:10:49 Pu = Ru's dismissive cousin 17:11:05 <|amethyst> gammafunk: If you re-send that to me, as well as all the shared libraries it uses (ldd util/monster/monster for the list) I might be able to get that working, but first let me see about this 32-bit version 17:11:13 <|amethyst> Lasty_: Pu = Ru with Sacrifice Leg 17:11:23 You win 17:11:25 <|amethyst> Lasty_: also, that might be a good sacrifice 17:11:31 <|amethyst> Lasty_: -2 move speed or whatever 17:11:49 please explain leg joke 17:12:08 |amethyst: it's been brought up before. The two problems with it are 1) it mechanically steps on Chei, and 2) flavorwise, having fewer legs has way more consequences than just being slow. 17:12:09 <|amethyst> rumflump: look at the shapes of 'R' vs 'P' 17:12:23 <|amethyst> Lasty_: yeah, 'sacrifice leg' wouldn't be a good name, re 2 17:12:31 ah! thought it was about the person who discovered plutonium 17:13:09 <|amethyst> Lasty_: re 1, maybe, but then again Sacrifice Arcana kind of steps on Trog's toes (but less so, I admit) 17:15:00 |amethyst: IMO Sac Arcana doesn't step on Trog's toes, since you can only take it once and it still leaves you many good investments in most cases. 17:15:52 oh, sac arcana can only be taken once now? 17:15:56 Having no option to use magic is substantially different from having the option to use a large subset of magic; having slow movement speed is only somewhat distinct from having extremely slow movement. 17:15:58 gammafunk: yeah 17:16:02 rip the gammafunk ru strat 17:16:05 haha 17:16:06 exactly 17:16:36 |amethyst: arguably a sacrifice that increases all player time taken by 20% would be interesting 17:16:42 |amethyst: and distinct from Chei 17:16:45 <|amethyst> ooh 17:16:56 just try to make one tiny, inconsequential sacrifice a day until full piety 17:17:03 after a year I become all-powerful 17:17:06 haha 17:17:12 Shortly after escaping with the orb 17:17:15 that wouldn't slow ru's passives by 20%, would it? 17:17:30 rumflump: no, because the passives are applied on monster actions, not on player actions 17:17:36 <|amethyst> hmm... trying this statically-linked monster, and running into problems with libgpm 17:17:45 <|amethyst> /usr/bin/ld.gold: error: /usr/lib/gcc/i586-linux-gnu/4.9/../../../i386-linux-gnu/libgpm.a(liblow.o): unsupported reloc 43 against global symbol gpm_mx 17:18:03 it'd be the only sacrifice that affects ru abilities 17:18:14 true 17:18:38 I wonder what that sacrifice would be fairly valued at. My guess is instant max piety. 17:19:00 <|amethyst> which would itself be not fair 17:19:15 <|amethyst> because you might be offered it at 0*, or you might not 17:19:19 eyah 17:19:26 maybe a 10% could be small enough to fit with existing sacs 17:19:27 and getting max piety instantly isn't a great experience 17:19:44 10% might be worth less than full piety. 17:20:26 <|amethyst> unfortunately, "sacrifice nimbleness" already means something 17:20:31 you'd sac hand, skill, speed, whatever showed up first 17:20:36 <|amethyst> I guess there's the prosaic "sacrifice speed" 17:20:57 and then fill in the rest with whatever smaller ones you like 17:22:08 |amethyst: sacrifice momentum? Sacrifice urgency? Sacrifice haste? 17:23:13 <|amethyst> "Sacrifice Haste" sounds like the other part of Chei's conduct :( 17:23:21 sacrifice reaction time 17:24:13 sacrifice situational awareness 17:24:54 <|amethyst> Sacrifice Bike 17:25:41 <|amethyst> gammafunk: yeah, no luck... you might see if you can build a statically-linked version, but you at the very least have to add a couple of -l options 17:25:46 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I was trying 17:25:59 <|amethyst> util/monster/monster: $(MONSTER_OBJS) $(CONTRIB_LIBS) dat/dlua/tags.lua 17:26:02 <|amethyst> - +$(QUIET_LINK)$(CXX) $(LDFLAGS) $(MONSTER_OBJS) -o $@ $(LIBS) 17:26:27 <|amethyst> + +$(QUIET_LINK)$(CXX) $(LDFLAGS) -static -static-libgcc -static-libstdc++ $(MONSTER_OBJS) -o $@ $(LIBS) -ldl -lgpm 17:35:00 <|amethyst> interview with dpeg and Lasty is up now: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/03/23/making-dungeon-crawl-stone-soup-with-253-cooks-and-no-head-chef/ 17:36:15 <|amethyst> hm, where is the "press" page on our wordpress? It doesn't seem to be linked from the front page anymore? 17:36:40 <|amethyst> ah, I see, it's on the wiki 17:38:44 <|amethyst> added 17:40:22 03yrmvgh02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/491 * 0.20-a0-861-g75602c3: blinker mut affects all teleports except wizmode 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 15+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/75602c3cb20b 17:40:22 03yrmvgh02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/491 * 0.20-a0-862-g416c4f9: fix the extra return false 10(43 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/416c4f9edd08 17:40:58 just to be clear 17:41:06 they're taking my words out of context 17:41:36 when I called minmay an elf licker, I was calling out that minmay likes to lick deep elves 17:44:19 how could they even misinterpret that? 17:45:14 <|amethyst> BTW, what are we going to be doing in October? 17:45:20 <|amethyst> for Crawl's 20th anniversary? 17:45:35 that's a pretty good article 17:45:35 Get drunk 17:45:45 <|amethyst> Dracunos: I'm doing that right now, what *new* are we going to be doing in October? 17:45:57 we can dress up in DCSS-theme halloween costumes 17:46:02 get drunker 17:46:09 remove Crawl 17:46:23 I will be celebrating Nethack's 30th birthday since July :-} 17:46:36 wow, a stab in the back 17:46:48 <|amethyst> maybe we should have a joint party 17:46:58 hold it in California 17:47:01 incremental changes, Brannock. soup and crawl can come later; start with removing stone from the game 17:47:03 dang, get lit, 420 High Elf erry day? 17:47:59 when I called minmay an elf licker, I was calling out that minmay likes to lick deep elves 17:48:02 I didn't specify deep elves 17:48:09 frog elves 17:48:14 right but I was calling out that you will lick those elves 17:49:19 <|amethyst> do elves have psychotropic toad skin? 17:49:33 with one commit they can... 17:49:52 <|amethyst> You finish eating the deep elf corpse. Whoa, trippy! 17:49:52 I love the list of upcoming changes at the end 17:50:00 "Someone’s reworking the swamp worms" 17:50:45 Is the Salt thing still happening what with PF moving on? 17:50:45 |amethyst: I might give static linking of monster a try then 17:50:52 <|amethyst> Brannock: it's not the first time PF has retired 17:51:07 I'm not sure that it is; personally I had pretty grave doubts that two more levels in the style of current desolation would be good 17:51:19 <|amethyst> Brannock: we just need to send an attack helicopter to his hotel 17:51:23 yeah, any branchification would require more monsters and probably altered structure to how it's laid out 17:51:31 however he could make subsequent levels different, and yeah modulo ununretirement 17:51:36 A branched Salt I think would need to progressively remove walls the deeper you go 17:51:38 <|amethyst> Brannock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU 17:51:49 haha 17:52:57 !tell Lasty along the lines of "make the game shorter", what do you think about putting Snake/Shoals/Spider/Swamp on the same roulette? One of these branches per game. Would come after exclusive Hell/Pan, probably 17:52:58 Brannock: OK, I'll let lasty know. 17:53:34 <|amethyst> Brannock: I think that's a big change to difficulty, because it means you have to do Abyss or Slime (or something) 17:53:46 <|amethyst> Brannock: unless you decrease the Zot requirement to two runes, I suppose 17:53:48 yes 17:54:19 exclusive Hell/Pan reduces # of runes from 15 to 11, exclusive S-branch would reduce it further to 10, so reducing Zot rune requirement also seems reasonable in that scenario 17:54:50 <|amethyst> honestly, I'd like to try dpeg's idea of smaller levels first 17:54:59 Yes, that's less drastic of a change 17:55:00 <|amethyst> but that's a lot of encompass vaults to rewrite 17:55:28 My understanding was that the encompass vaults wouldn't need to be updated, just that the actual generated size would gradually reduce 17:55:33 <|amethyst> I guess you could still leave the max at 80 x 70 17:55:33 <|amethyst> aha 17:55:36 <|amethyst> yeah, that 17:55:55 <|amethyst> I had been thinking of save compat difficulties 17:56:05 Some of the game's best vaults are full-sized encompasses 17:56:07 Would hate to lose these 17:56:10 <|amethyst> and, without a compat break, I think it's not feasible to reduce GXM and GXY 17:56:16 <|amethyst> s/GXY/GYM/ 17:56:16 such as the haunted forest Crypt ending, that one is incredible 18:00:49 <|amethyst> BTW, the "Dungeon Crawl" page on tvtropes just turned 4 a week or so ago 18:01:50 venerable.. 18:02:46 <|amethyst> I also added that to the Press page (under 2013) 18:03:13 would it be seen as shameless self-promotion to mention that RPS article on our dev blog? 18:03:28 it does get into developer philosophy.. 18:03:34 <|amethyst> Brannock: 1) Yes, and 2) So? 18:04:39 Sacrifice Alacrity 18:05:11 <|amethyst> Sacrifice Arches 18:05:18 |amethyst: there's a bunch of false stuff in those pages 18:05:25 at least the nemelex page is completely made up 18:05:31 <|amethyst> gammafunk: fortunately it's a wiki :) 18:05:43 gammafunk: alternative facts 18:05:43 <|amethyst> gammafunk: there's also a bunch of false stuff in learndb, so meh :) 18:05:44 well it's really annoying 18:06:49 someone just invented this entire history that nemelex game from Yu Gi Oh 18:07:00 s/game/came 18:07:01 what page is this? 18:07:59 Nemelex Xobeh, the trickster god, is a fairly obvious reference to Yu-Gi-Oh!. Their followers are given magical decks of cards that allow them to summon monsters, cast powerful spells, and lay traps. They are encouraged to fight with these cards as much as possible and as they advance in the faith they get powers that let them peek at their cards, top-deck the cards they want, etc. (Remember in the 18:08:05 original Japanese version of Yu-Gi-Oh! it was a plot point that Yugi/Atem was in fact actually cheating.) Even their in-game description gets in on the fun, stopping just short of actually including the phrase "heart of the cards." (For reference, the phrase it uses is "trust in the cards.") 18:08:27 <|amethyst> heh 18:08:29 that's actually just one paragraph, I feel it used to be a page 18:08:32 is there an easy way to show a human readable score list on our server? 18:08:46 instead of http://gnollcrawl.tk/oofcrawl/scores 18:09:07 there are a few approaches, you could run the score page systems (either cao's or the one alexjurkiewicz made) 18:09:47 yeah, looks like that nemelex bit is just a paragraph 18:09:56 that we could remove (with an explanation as to why) 18:10:07 <|amethyst> gammafunk: it could be true, would have to ask bwr :) 18:10:14 it's not true 18:10:46 for one, nemelex was created before Yu Gi Oh was ever really a thing (apparently it did exist in japan as a manga in the version that added nem) 18:11:25 but I asked dpeg for confirmation, and as far as he know (and this is true if you look at the card references themselves), nem is a reference to Tarot cards 18:11:31 <|amethyst> yeah 18:11:36 fateful draws 18:11:47 <|amethyst> Nemelex is 1999-ish I think 18:12:06 <|amethyst> Yu Gi Oh manga started 1996, anime 1998 18:12:31 <|amethyst> but it's pretty clear from the format of the card names that it's supposed to be tarot 18:12:45 <|amethyst> (but where are the minor arcana?) 18:14:09 !lg * nem 1 18:14:10 1/61968. Azeral the Prestidigitator (L5 SpEn of Nemelex Xobeh), succumbed to poison on D:4 on 2006-12-10 10:20:33, with 239 points after 3906 turns and 0:24:15. 18:14:14 !lg * nem 1 x=cv 18:14:15 1/61968. [cv=0.1] Azeral the Prestidigitator (L5 SpEn of Nemelex Xobeh), succumbed to poison on D:4 on 2006-12-10 10:20:33, with 239 points after 3906 turns and 0:24:15. 18:14:26 oh nem pre-dates dcss 18:15:03 I looked at the dates when nem was added according to grunt, and it appeared to me that nem was added at a time when yu gi oh was just a mange (and still only in japan) 18:15:37 nemelex is 3.10 18:17:34 yeah, seems 3.10 very early 1999 18:17:36 heh 18:17:43 * Added a new and rather strange God; 18:17:57 doesn't even mention which god it is 18:19:28 gotta plan ahead for commit messages 18:19:59 very tempting to phone it in when you feel "done" with the thing, and now git is harassing you for a title 18:23:03 there, I removed it, now I can rest easy at night 18:23:21 I did mention my evidence for why this information was false in the edit 18:24:20 apparently an anime was produced in 1998 but a Yu Gi Oh anime was not broadcast outside of japan until 2001 18:24:56 and mikee gave me a good way to play linley's crawl for the much-hyped 500 follower special 18:25:45 mu^sif -> cast spells to gain piety until get spells and specifically Tomb -> worship Xom and cast Tomb repeatedly to rest of Sif wrath and get Xom gifts, then worship some other god 18:25:59 rumflump: what do you mean, gotta plan ahead? you can always go back and fix things 18:26:26 git commit -m 'dfdasfklrge' is fine as long as you plan to go back and create proper commits later 18:27:21 does that work if you've pushed? 18:27:27 well 18:27:43 generally speaking you should not modify commits that someone else is using 18:27:57 that is distinct from pushing, but often they overlap 18:28:07 yeah, what amalloy is saying is "better to commit something now with a terse message than wait until you clobber something you didn't commit" 18:28:18 I have kicked myself a number of times for not making commits 18:28:39 more commits. more! 18:28:41 I just treat everything that's pushed as beyond help and try to do better with the next one 18:28:51 if you are interested in improving your git workflow, http://blog.izs.me/post/37650663670/git-rebase is a good read 18:28:52 Well, that's fine 18:29:08 and yeah, sometimes force push is a fine option, but not if collaboration or servers are involved 18:29:08 rumflump: sure, that's fine. but you don't have to push very often, especially if you are the only one working on your stuff 18:29:23 Lasty_: I hope our fellow devs don't deride us over the article :) 18:29:31 right, you don't have to push right away; I often have commits that sit in branches for some time 18:29:38 dpeg: are you an elf licker? 18:29:49 I thought the interview was pretty good 18:30:12 someone came into discord and said "gammafunk, I read a dev article about you and it was very interesting!" 18:30:19 gammafunk: I see myself more as an elf kicker 18:30:24 I'm like :o 18:30:30 dang dpeg 18:31:10 gammafunk: I've kicked GE and El myself. =) 18:31:17 hrm 18:31:23 I guess I too am and elf kicker 18:31:36 gammafunk: no problem, because Crawl has elves for everyone! 18:32:13 also the snippet will lead to more players stating that minmay is dev 18:33:20 which is fun (and we need fun!) 18:33:48 impermissible 18:34:03 dpeg, Lasty_: good interview 18:34:12 ??minmay[development 18:34:12 minmay[4/20]: minqmay is very involved in development 18:34:18 +1 18:34:25 but I would advise you to stop mentioning nethack. it makes you look dated :) 18:34:46 bhaak: thank you. I thought we'd get a preview version, but hey, Kent did a good job. 18:35:00 bhaak: we *are* dated. Not as dated as you guys, sure, but we're next in line. 18:35:23 I was berating Kyzrati for claiming brogue is a "newer" roguelike 18:35:43 dpeg: you're only 20! nethack OTOH, you know the saying: never trust anyone over 30 18:35:45 along with Tome 18:35:50 is it not? 18:36:06 Tome is special. there are 4 of them :) 18:36:11 it started dev in 2009, so I don't think it's really fair to call it "newer" 18:36:27 oh, in general, not relative to crawl, gotcha 18:36:36 bhaak: dormant phases do count?? Anyway, glad you've sort of risen from eternal slumber. 18:36:38 speaking of new roguelikes, I've had my eye on Tangledeep 18:36:44 but my real point was that DCSS was released like 2006; Kyzrati wanted to claim that DCSS is as old as Linely Crawl is 18:36:57 dpeg: it's still zombie-ish 18:36:59 there's a channel on the roguelike discord for that iirc 18:37:00 gammafunk: that's a tough one -- where do you sever the lines. 18:37:20 dpeg: I think I most objected to him trying to equate the age of DCSS with the age of Linley Crawl 18:37:24 Myself, I see DCSS as the straight continuation of Linley Crawl. 18:37:25 yet not realy doing so for other games 18:37:34 alright, that's fair 18:37:51 I mean, you could in various ways, but in all sorts of ways it's a radically different game 18:38:13 but yeah, hard to agree on designations like that 18:38:17 where does the evolution end and the revolution begin 18:38:28 Brannock: the tangeldeep dev is on the roguelikes discord as well 18:38:38 gammafunk: someone might say (I can't) that DC 4.0 is radically different from DC 0.1. :) 18:38:40 and I think he has done a dev stream very recently? or some kind of stream 18:38:49 rumflump: revolution is only evolution in a shorter timeframe 18:39:02 dpeg: well sure! which makes equating DCSS with linley crawl even worse (from that perspective) 18:39:38 gammafunk: heck, as long as there's Xom and Deep Elves, it is Crawl. 18:40:00 if we follow this logic, poschengband is not a new game (maybe sil also isn't) 18:40:42 gammafunk: yes, I know. This is like classifying music (or any kind of art) into genres: a hopeless endeavour! 18:41:18 dpeg: just make crawl much harder, like you said in the interview 18:41:24 then we can sever all ties to Linley 18:41:53 gammafunk: when I was young, they whispered on rec.games.roguelikes.nethack that "Crawl wants you dead!". 18:42:26 <3 18:42:42 which is not true, of course, so it only really speaks about how soft NH is :) 18:43:15 it is ascendable in 1 hour. that's a bug if you ask me 18:43:39 roguelikes should be shorter in general 18:43:41 coffee break roguelike 18:43:50 Brannock: we've been trying over the years! 18:43:52 more room to be very difficult if it doesn't require an entire weekend to win 18:43:56 yes 18:44:47 [17:30:25] ‹Eksell› Slobodan the Black Sun (L26 MuMo), worshipper of Kikubaaqudgha, escaped with the Orb and 5 runes, with 2955097 points after 76053 turns and 15:31:59. 18:44:55 i see we're diversifying our war criminal names 18:45:01 :\ 18:45:18 as long as somebody wins during the tournaments, your game is too easy 18:45:20 ProzacElf: not sure how many Americans could even make this connection for Slobodan 18:45:39 true. and i suppose there are actually people named slobodan still 18:45:41 there are a lot of slobodans 18:46:08 politically/historically-informed americans will definitely recognize it, though not the majority, no 18:46:23 ProzacElf: I was the one who suggested renaming Adolf until they finally succumbed, but I completely failed to make the connection with Jozef. 1kb had to enlighten me. 18:47:22 hehe 18:47:36 Slobodan is also just Serbian given name 18:47:54 he tainted a good name and a good beard for the rest of us for a long time to come 18:47:59 yes, that's why i said there are actually still people just named slobodan 18:48:00 not saying this person isn't trolling 18:48:03 sure, but if your call your child Adolf, then that's a political statement over here in Germany 18:48:11 yeah, I missed that line, ProzacElf 18:49:01 but yes, it is a mildly obscure bit of trolling if he's american 18:49:15 ??eksell 18:49:16 Eksell[1/1]: The {CXC} announcement bot, which uses | as a prefix. 18:49:19 probably not american 18:49:56 i couldn't remember where cxc was based 18:50:51 ??CXC 18:50:51 cXc[1/2]: Server in France: CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM -- ssh port 22, username crawl, uses CAO key (available at http://CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM/crawl/keys/). Webtiles address: http://CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM 18:51:06 mmm 18:51:12 yes, most likely not 18:51:19 all a bunch of ruskis on that server! 18:51:28 lol 18:58:26 !lg lickmyass 18:58:27 5. lickmyass the Conjurer (L5 DECj of The Shining One), slain by an adder on D:5 on 2017-01-11 01:56:11, with 174 points after 7029 turns and 0:24:15. 18:58:35 i really hope this is a reference to the mozart song 19:01:33 or goetz von berlichingen? 19:38:19 Brannock: fwiw, i'm not convinced that branched salt was happening even with me around... ellip & others seemed to think there wasn't enough meat there 19:38:19 Pleasingfungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 19:38:30 i'd be happy to see an attempt, of course 19:38:39 i have a few notes on other monster ideas... very rough 19:38:54 2-3 more unique monsters and importing some monsters from elsewhere would help I think 19:40:36 http://pastebin.com/uWEDnSkE here's my old salt notes 19:40:40 very very rough 19:40:49 more of a collection of ideas than coherent monsters 19:40:54 alchemy golems sound fun 19:41:01 explode into clouds of buffing 19:41:03 sounds very tome 19:41:08 so many cloud types...! :P 19:41:23 (clouds wouldn't be tome, just 'alchemy golem' sounds tome-y) 19:41:35 "some big nasty that’s hard to wake up, somehow?" actually this is a monster type that hasn't really been explored yet 19:41:47 a monster that doesn't wake up (or has a hard time doin gso) from player noise 19:41:49 but not from monster noise 19:41:52 yeah, but i wasn't able to figure out how "hard to wake up" would work 19:41:55 would encourage luring, though 19:42:01 could make the sleeper's friends patrolling 19:42:07 also, tricky to communicate if it's based on noise 19:42:10 even with the noise meter 19:42:23 maybe it would work as an unique 19:42:30 salt the branch can't work until some hero implements transporters 19:42:37 unique with 2-3 alerting monsters 19:42:40 don't know who this dev god may be, or if he even exists, but... 19:43:15 Brannock: 'kill the pals before they wake it'? 19:43:15 one day I'll make a roguelike that's *about* kiting 19:43:20 Pleasingfungus, yeah 19:43:31 gammafunk: one-way trapdoors only! 19:43:34 Brannock: that's crawl tho 19:43:36 :P 19:43:46 one-way trapdoor spiders 19:43:47 fr 19:43:52 escape spiders 19:44:01 oh yeah, don't forget to make transporters work between different floors 19:44:06 so they can be used to replace tomb stairs! 19:44:40 wasn't someone talking about allowing trapdoors to have vault-fixed destinations? 19:44:47 yeah 19:44:48 seems like it could be simpler than a new feature type 19:45:06 well I think MPA was joking 19:45:11 right, that's my ancient tomb wishlist thing 19:45:16 tome4 has dreaming horrors, which sleep until something damages them 19:45:22 wrt to the across level bit 19:45:32 and i was suggesting gammafunk do the work to implement it, yeah :P 19:45:38 minmay: it doesn't seem like those would be very interesting in crawl. do they work better in tome? 19:45:42 while sleeping, they constantly spawn summons that travel across the level, so that you get annoyed enough to go wake up the dreaming horror to stop the summons 19:45:44 ahhhh 19:46:04 to be clear, i'm making fun of dreaming horrors because they are a terrible design, not endorsing them for crawl 19:46:08 oh, well yeah, that certainly could be a thing, the hatches with specific destinations thing 19:46:17 as I'm understanding travel/level info code more 19:46:20 basically a two-mode fight/monster, "summoner" vs, uh, whatever they do when they actually fight 19:46:21 I can look into doing this 19:46:29 it's one of those things i've wanted for ages but never made any effort to look into how easy it'd be to implement, yeah 19:46:40 if it's actually relatively feasible that's cool 19:46:47 I have much respect for snark's patch after reading this code 19:46:53 the autotravel? 19:46:54 it's a pretty complex system, travel+level info 19:46:55 yeah 19:47:05 although I'm sure many have worked on this over the years 19:47:07 it would've been very different in the snark's day 19:47:10 Pleasingfungus, in practice they kill you in one turn so you just either one-shot them or don't wake them up 19:47:11 probably so 19:47:22 snark is the one who implemented autotravel initially though 19:47:23 minmay: good stuff 19:47:27 luckily they're easy to one-shot 19:47:29 travel code sort of feels like one of those things that's changed relatively little over time and is pretty insulated from other stuff 19:48:05 yeah, I haven't looked into authorship, I'm just remarking on how it's got a few levels of complexity in there, which if you were more thoughtful about it, would make sense 19:48:21 I didn't apply much thought initially, of course 19:48:43 feels like you could implement a reasonable version of it as a fixed summoner that turns into a (fast?) melee monster when you hit it... but that's just a more complicated version of an obsidian statue, and not really more complicated in an interesting way 19:48:51 idk 19:49:35 maybe something like that could work. not something i feel super enthusiastic about 20:01:04 I just noticed they got Lasty's name wrong in that RPS article 20:01:11 Corin Buchanan-Howard 20:02:04 hey there! saw the RPS article. I have a fairly specific question: how does crawl treat its in-game objects? does the game use something like an ECS or is it some other method of organizing gamestate? 20:02:19 you sound very very optimistic about the nature of crawl's code 20:03:04 heh 20:03:15 i would describe crawl's gamestate as being organized in "an arbitrary and ad-hoc fashion" 20:03:25 heh. I see. 20:03:25 in a word: spaghetti 20:03:38 you'd have to ask about something more specific for me to give a better answer. like, "how are monsters stored?", or "how are items stored", "how is the player stored", etc 20:03:53 all of those would be great! how're monsters stored? 20:03:58 and updated and all that fun stuff. 20:03:59 that's only the better parts. some of it is bullpuckey... 20:04:29 basically anything that isn't the player and moves. 20:04:34 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 20:04:45 crawl does treat 'basically everything that isn't the player and moves' as a monster. 20:04:47 unkindly. 20:05:36 there's a statically allocated array of monsters (size 700), which holds every living monster on the current level. 20:06:14 interesting... I take it that you use the same approach for something like items? 20:06:22 well, it holds common properties, such as 'hp', 'hd', etc. some special properties are stored in a per-monster 'properties' dictionary. 20:06:26 yes, roughly similar. 20:06:56 nice. that sounds like a better solution than a full-blown ECS. :P 20:07:29 monsters that need to travel between levels - e.g. monsters that follow you through the stairs, or are trapped in the abyss, or are divine companions that can be summoned with yred/beogh/hep Recall - are stored in other arrays. 20:07:37 *monsters that are following you through... 20:07:58 I see. and on every turn you just loop over all of your arrays in order? 20:09:03 iirc yes [for monsters], though i haven't looked at that code in a while or in detail. 20:09:41 nice. do the monsters have something akin to an update function, or are you just supplying one function for an entire array of monsters (and switching according to AI type)? 20:11:12 monsters get their turns in a kind of two-phase "player acts, world reacts" loop 20:11:18 closer to the latter approach. there are several files full of monster AI logic. 20:11:39 ah, I see. 20:11:50 many, many special cases. i don't think there's anyone currently active on the dev team who has a strong understanding of what's going on there. 20:12:08 that'll happen with 20+ years of code from 253 contributors 20:12:09 gammafunk: yeah I was wondering how monsters kept up with turn transitions. there's some ordering under the hood but by god nobody notices it. :P 20:13:08 Brannock: well, there are *some* parts of the code that people currently understand! 20:13:09 yeah, monsters get looped through, performing actions based on having sufficient "energy", in basically an arbitrary order 20:13:37 there was a tavern thread a while back arguing that monsters should take actions starting from those closest to the player 20:13:45 to avoid dumb behaviour with pack monsters sometimes blocking other ones 20:13:54 yeah, many players kind of assume that the system is already like this 20:14:02 it isn't? 20:14:06 Huh 20:14:07 that's not a bad idea. you could do some boids-style stuff. 20:14:08 <|amethyst> re monster swapping 20:14:17 <|amethyst> IMO the biggest problem 20:14:35 <|amethyst> is that it takes both monsters' actions 20:15:26