00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:05 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-647-gf178af5 (34) 00:01:07 -!- lynn has joined ##crawl-dev 00:02:08 Stable (0.19) branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.19.4-9-g45fd643 00:04:49 I'm favorable towards the noise PR though I need to review the code 00:07:22 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 00:09:55 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 00:12:21 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:16:41 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:26:37 -!- ebarrett_ has quit [] 00:29:59 -!- Lasty_1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:18 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:39:55 pretty exciting to see this, and autofire's sound patch 00:41:17 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:46:24 -!- Zeor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:48:20 -!- cspar has joined ##crawl-dev 00:49:28 -!- cspar_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:49:50 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:49:56 -!- Zeor1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:54:16 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 00:56:34 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:58:43 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:12 -!- FunkyGnoll has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:02:48 -!- hellmonk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:09:10 -!- bgiannan_ is now known as bgiannan 01:10:23 Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.19.4-9-g45fd643 (34) 01:19:53 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-647-gf178af5 (34) 01:26:09 -!- Kramin_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:27:24 -!- Hiffwe has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:28:04 -!- grisha5 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:38:09 !tell eb https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeKmODn0jL8 01:38:10 minmay: OK, I'll let eb know. 01:38:23 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 01:43:07 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 01:47:09 -!- Kramin_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:56:31 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-647-gf178af5 02:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:08:43 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:37:03 -!- filthy has quit [Quit: please don't look for me] 02:37:36 -!- Kramin_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:40:58 -!- Kramin__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:41:30 -!- Brannock has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:42:16 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:43:04 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 02:43:11 !messages 02:43:11 No messages for SteelNeuron. 02:46:28 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:48:54 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:50:38 !messages 02:50:39 (1/1) Pleasingfungus said (3d 7h 9m 57s ago): don't be ridiculous. the nuclear codes aren't 12345. they're 00000000 02:52:10 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:53:00 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:54:06 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:54:15 lol 02:54:33 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-647-gf178af5 03:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:45 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 03:03:24 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:05:43 -!- QuailChaser has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:06:23 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:08:15 -!- bgiannan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:09:52 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 03:10:48 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:12:04 -!- bgiannan has quit [Client Quit] 03:12:33 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 03:16:06 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 03:21:03 -!- dexap is now known as paxed 03:23:41 Stable (0.19) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.19.4-9-g45fd643 03:26:36 -!- pantaril has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:36:33 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-647-gf178af5 (34) 03:41:40 New branch created: pull/458 (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/458 03:41:40 03alexjurkiewicz02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/458 * 0.20-a0-648-g7d8eff0: Merge pull request #2 from crawl/master 10(5 minutes ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7d8eff0f21f1 03:41:40 03alexjurkiewicz02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/458 * 0.20-a0-649-gb20afa6: Remove teleport closets from chequers_ecumenical_altar_grove 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b20afa65eb88 03:51:40 -!- Kramin_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:57:12 -!- chan20 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:29 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:07:19 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:12:09 -!- Pacra__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:12:42 -!- Pacra__ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:16:31 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 04:22:41 -!- rhovland has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:30:53 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:33:34 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 04:43:42 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:53:09 -!- shpingle has joined ##crawl-dev 04:55:29 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:14 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:02:01 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:02:11 -!- harambe has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:04:37 -!- nocturnal_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:12:10 -!- shpingle has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:19:23 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 05:21:39 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:21:40 -!- Pacra__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:29:43 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:30:21 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:38:43 -!- escu_ is now known as escu 05:52:46 -!- grisha5 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:57:27 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:58:11 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 05:59:03 -!- Marbit has joined ##crawl-dev 06:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:02:45 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:02:48 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:02:59 Hi people. Do you know where can I find the old tiles for orcish/dwarven/elven weapons? I mean the tiles of a versionwhere they still existed. 06:06:06 <|amethyst> Marbit: many of them are still there under rltiles/UNUSED/weapons/ 06:06:38 thnaks man! 06:07:24 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 06:09:27 <|amethyst> Marbit: also here https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/stone_soup-0.13/crawl-ref/source/rltiles/item/weapon 06:09:43 <|amethyst> (they were removed in 0.14) 06:15:05 -!- zxc has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:23:22 thanks amethyst 06:32:11 Can't ressurect my orc follower 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10942 by Aer1al 06:39:40 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:45:03 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:46:00 -!- Fixer has joined ##crawl-dev 06:50:46 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:50:52 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:55:31 -!- Surr has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:56:24 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:57 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:07:50 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:16:35 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:21:11 -!- PsyMar has quit [Quit: witty quit message goes here] 07:22:50 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:30:28 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 07:35:40 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:39:45 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:41:50 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:49:17 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:49:41 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:51:37 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:56:28 -!- nocturnal_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:15 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:00:26 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:15:40 Stable (0.19) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.19.4-9-g45fd643 08:15:59 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:17:09 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:18:41 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:29:54 -!- jeefus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:33:10 -!- jefus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:33:56 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:35:35 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:40:01 -!- Marbit has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:43:15 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:44:05 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:49:21 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:51:42 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:56:09 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:58:58 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08:52 -!- grisha5 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:11:05 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:11:19 -!- chan20 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:12:37 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 09:15:45 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:17:50 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:20:32 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:25:11 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:26:15 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30:10 -!- Writ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:32:24 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:32:29 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:33:55 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:37:53 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:41:54 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:48:12 -!- myp has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:59:23 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:12:10 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:12:15 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:12:32 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 10:14:27 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:58 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:21:06 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 10:29:05 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:32:21 -!- shpingle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:35:13 -!- dondy has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5] 10:35:45 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:41:56 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:48:31 -!- shpingle has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:49:09 -!- koboldina has joined ##crawl-dev 10:49:11 hey guys 10:49:47 wanted to drop in and say that while the potion of mut / cure mut change has screwed me occasionally, I think it's a really excellent change in trunk right now 10:50:07 makes mutation management less of a no-brainer and significantly less abusable 11:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:15 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:00:26 -!- MrRooks_ is now known as MrRooks 11:00:27 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:47 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:16:38 -!- MrRooks has quit [Changing host] 11:17:10 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:26:43 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:27:57 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:40:04 -!- qguv_ is now known as qguv 11:40:30 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:36 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:46:10 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:46:43 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:53:16 koboldina: I'm almost afraid to ask what aspects about mutation management are 'no-brainers' for you 11:53:34 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:54:04 I think this changes makes the mutation system way more abusable both because of the frequency of the potion and because of how much it cures mutations 12:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:01:34 -!- schminitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:30 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:02:55 gammafunk: what does counts as 'abuse' of the mutation system? 12:03:06 can one 'cheese' 'muts'? 12:03:16 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:04:21 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-647-gf178af5 (34) 12:05:42 abuse in the sense of purposefully taking sources of bad mutations (e.g. purple chunks) just to get a bunch of good ones, yes 12:05:55 but your question could be posed in exactly the same way to koboldina's statement 12:08:59 i mean 12:09:21 (a) describing purple chunks as "sources of bad muts" seems like a very odd and misleading phrasing 12:09:52 and (b) i thought that encouraging using purple chunks in that way was an explicit goal of New!Mut 12:10:24 well I don't know what you mean by (a), I would describe them exactly that way, since what they do on average is give you a bad mutation 12:10:59 and I don't know that increasing the use of purple chunks is really a valid design goal, plus I'm not sure that's how Brannock would really characterize it 12:11:53 they have a 60% chance of giving you a good mutation. 12:11:56 how is that "on average bad" 12:12:01 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:12:26 are you trying to say "on average, if you eat enough purple, you'll eventually end up with some bad muts"? 12:12:41 17:32:27 the higher availability also may encourage more players to experiment with our mutation system (via purple chunks), and it makes malmutaters less stressful for these players who are still bemoaning loss of rMut. The price: you have to deal with some mutations. 12:12:52 20:01:49 so now mutagenic monsters are a particular target for these who like to ride the purple 12:13:10 using purple for mutations is a literal explicit goal of this new system 12:13:54 i mean, you can argue as to whether it's a *good* goal or not, but calling it "abuse" seems like an abuse of the english language! 12:13:55 I really think his major point is that second one, but I don't see how encouraging people to eat a lot of purple chunks to get stronger with really little threat of a significant downside is desirable 12:14:41 re the percentage, that's worse than I thought (in terms of it being bad how plentiful a source of good mutations they are) 12:14:53 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:09 part of what the !mut system incorporated was !benemut, so the goal of the new potion is, in part, to give you good mutations - either directly or indirectl 12:15:54 A focus on eating monsters does seem a little on the nethacky side, but that existed under the old system anyway. I am almost certain I'm going to reduce frequency of !mutation to be more in line with other potions. I do want to say I am very surprised at the amount of positive feedback I've received about this. 12:15:56 in general i think the idea was that "the mutation system is fun and good to interact with, but optimal play doesn't involve interacting with it, so let's change that". that is to say, a goal is to make players have more mutations, both good and bad 12:16:05 yes, that was the idea 12:16:10 if this works out to be a net player buff, c'est la vie 12:16:22 i doubt it'll break the game 12:16:23 though we should have a dev team consensus on this, instead of deferring to my planned goal 12:16:35 i personally don't have a strong opinion on newmut 12:16:39 i'm just here to argue with gammafunk 12:16:50 it's my role... it's what i was born for 12:16:59 such advocacy 12:17:30 I don't particularly see how mashing all of those potions together into one was especially helpful for getting a good design with the mutation system, but what Brannock did is one approach 12:18:22 one of the biggest things it did that I don't like is reduce instances where you get a specific bad mutation and you have to live with that for a while 12:18:23 -!- laj1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:18:42 even if you reduce !mutation to !might levels, with reasonable play you're going to have a lot of those lying around 12:18:51 but i'm told that badmuts don't exist in 3-rune games! 12:19:07 this is true, so this change makes them even more non-existant 12:19:08 Yes, I'm not fully happy with that either, gammafunk. I'm more optimistic than you, I think reduction in frequency will help, especially over the course of a full game. 12:19:31 of course, another path to take is to increase amount of malmutators :) 12:19:38 yes, that could be done as well 12:19:48 but won't that undue all player happiness and good will... 12:19:50 afaict we've avoided havin them in the 3-rune game because of player frustration 12:20:05 wretched stars were a way around this 12:20:09 and are also a good design imho 12:20:47 i wonder if there's room for another temp mutator somewhere 12:20:52 maybe in Salt 2: The Branchening 12:20:53 -!- epsilonhalbe has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:21:21 we already have a 'lite' version of the temp mutation spell, just waiting to land somewhere in 3-rune 12:21:26 before this change I had to plan how to use my cure mut pots pretty carefully, at least for some stretches of the game, if I want to mess with getting good mutations 12:21:38 -!- HeithinnGrasida has quit [] 12:21:45 really? i would just keep one spare and eat purple as long as i had more than that 12:21:49 it was a balance between "what if I get stuck with something bad" versus "I could get some nice mutations now" 12:21:55 i don't know that that counts as "pretty carefully" 12:22:16 that's more carefully than "who cares, there's a billion mutation potions" 12:22:23 like... barely? 12:22:28 still not very interesting 12:23:00 they're just a scarce resource; you can argue that planning based on scarcity is not interesting, sure 12:23:07 there are a lot of resource games in crawl; wands, potions, scrolls, piety, food (lol), allies, etc 12:23:11 some of them are interesting 12:23:13 some of them are not 12:23:34 one idea I've seen suggested frequently is to condense three-level muts (Demonspawn excluded I guess) into two levels. That would be a fairly major change and one I'd probably put off until another version -- if we decide that's actually a good idea in the first place. (I don't know what I think of it yet.) 12:23:49 there are a lot of infinite resources in crawl, some of them are interesting 12:23:50 -!- nocturnal_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:23:51 some of them are not 12:23:54 I can do this too 12:24:09 within the confines of a 3-rune game, the !cmut game was not very interesting. (it was more interesting in extended.) 12:24:15 gammafunk: i was still typing! 12:24:25 impossible to verify 12:24:29 we're not on discord 12:24:34 i was about to say, yes 12:24:41 clearly time for development to move to a more modern platform 12:24:46 i'm sure chequers would approve 12:24:52 that name is dead to me 12:24:54 hm, has anyone submitted any bug reports on github? 12:25:19 a couple 12:25:24 but it's still mostly mantis 12:25:35 the most recent bug is from... chequers 12:25:37 Brannock: well a lot of things change if the mutations do a better job of having impact, but that's always been the difficult aspect of crawl's mutation system 12:26:09 we do have a number of impactful muts 12:26:20 it's not at all consistent, which may or may not be a problem 12:26:46 I think variety in impact is good 12:27:10 is it mostly a source of small bonuses to the player? is it a kind of source of attrition that penalizes poor tactics? is it for funny jokes about losing your helmet? 12:27:24 last part is critical 12:27:24 it does literally. everything. 12:27:44 slices, dices, 12:28:00 man, looking at mutation-data.h, the vast majority of mutations are Ru or Ds 12:28:12 Maybe I should add some more 12:28:14 both of which were invented by Lasty 12:28:40 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:29:45 wow, who knew? 12:29:56 oh 12:30:03 I've had a long-standing todo to fix Demonspawn mutation sorting 12:30:06 does anyone know how that's handled? 12:30:12 Especially noticeable with the Magic Shield mutation chain 12:30:17 It's all listed out of order 12:30:20 absolutely not 12:30:42 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 12:34:08 I think it's because they're separate mutations 12:34:12 same with cloud immunity 12:41:28 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:36 -!- Smello has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:46:37 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 12:48:28 is it considered intended that if a cloud lasts a short enough time, it may not affect a monster at all? 12:48:40 especially relevant for slower monsters and poison vapours 12:48:55 if a monster is slow enough, by the next time it acts the cloud is already gone, so it isn't poisoned 12:49:09 seems counterintuitive that being slower would be beneficial to the monster in that case 12:49:30 -!- Ofeo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:49:57 that does seem bad, yeah. not sure how to fix that 12:50:20 usually clouds last long enough that it's not a significant concern 12:50:28 Lasty, what do you think? 12:50:56 problem seems to be that when a cloud exists before a monster's turn, but not *on* the monster's turn, it's as if it wasn't there at all 12:51:04 because that's when the damage is checked 12:51:19 it would need to know "there *was* a cloud, for N aut, but isn't anymore" or something 12:52:44 related: clouds don't affect monsters that are using Word of Recall 12:53:08 huh, how does that work? 12:53:50 they don't take another turn until the word finishes 12:54:46 oh, okay, so the cloud may dissipate by then 12:56:07 more to the point, they don't take damage while the word is active 12:56:29 meaning that casting e.g. freezing cloud to try to kill a convoker before it finishes recalling is a waste of a spell 12:56:39 heh, just had the poisonous vapours thing happen twice in a row with a dart slug 12:56:58 Pleasingfungus: doesn't it scale cloud damage by how long their action delay is, or something to that effect? 12:57:08 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:57:36 you're misunderstanding me 12:58:06 but yes it will, at best, wait until the recall is complete to kill the recaller 12:58:07 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:12 which is bad news for the player 12:58:15 yes 12:58:18 that was my point 12:58:21 good chat. 12:58:40 just saying it could also do no damage at all if it dissipates prior to then 13:00:03 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:13 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:14:59 -!- THERetroGamerNY has quit [Quit: Be Blessed!] 13:17:21 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 13:20:44 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:22:49 -!- LexAckson__ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:23:21 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:24:38 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 13:25:56 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26:51 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:31:40 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 13:32:03 -!- cspar_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:33:22 -!- cspar has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:34:55 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:35 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:36:35 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:37:05 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:37:27 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:09 -!- sentinel_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:49:11 gammafunk: what I meant was that when cure mut existed, it was pretty clear when it was a good time to spam !cmut 13:49:23 gammafunk: now that they don't, it's a more involved choice with more potential tradeoffs and risks 13:49:56 well given how much curing a single (and highly available) new mut pot gives 13:49:59 I don't see that to be the case 13:50:53 right now mutation roulette appears to consist of using one if you have no mutations, and otherwise only using them if getting rid of your current mutations is worth it 13:50:55 they seem pretty common 13:51:31 I don't think it really added any depth to the decision-making process, just made things vastly easier to work in your favor 13:51:55 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:51:57 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:43 i hadn't realised just how common they are yeah, the current level looks really ridiculous 13:54:13 i'd been thinking it'd be like, old cmut level for some reason (which i think would still have been bad but in a different way) 13:58:42 yeah 13:58:56 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:45 -!- koboldina has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:00:52 -!- koboldina_ is now known as koboldina 14:05:22 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:06:10 -!- eb_________ is now known as eb 14:06:49 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:07:17 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:22 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:15 -!- aditya has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:08:17 -!- adibis is now known as aditya 14:12:24 -!- koboldina has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:12:35 -!- koboldina_ is now known as koboldina 14:26:14 -!- miek_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:31:16 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 14:32:29 I was planning to reduce them but there seems to be consensus now that they're too common 14:32:39 gotta figure out how to keep total weighing the same, though 14:33:27 actually, maybe just a direct reduction would be fine? 14:37:36 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 14:37:53 !source _is_boring_item 14:37:54 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc#L109 14:38:28 !source makeitem.cc:1394 14:38:29 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc#L1394 14:38:46 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:39:02 am I understanding this condition correctly, the while loop goes 500 times if agent is Xom, the item is boring? 14:39:45 oh I see, if it's Xom, it keeps going until it finds an item that Xom approves of, or else times out after the 500th attempt 14:39:52 <|amethyst> yes 14:39:55 okay, was unsure at first what that was meant to accomplish 14:40:06 <|amethyst> it's a pretty common idiom in crawlcode 14:40:21 <|amethyst> not a good one, but common 14:41:12 <|amethyst> (better would be to set the weight to 0 for boring items if the agent is xom, and maybe have a fallback just in case all potions become boring someday) 14:42:40 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 14:50:13 looks like xom doesn't actually consider any potion boring, so that conditional is dead code 14:50:37 do you get the demon of the infinite void message when it times out? 14:50:45 because xom is the only way i've actually seen that message 14:50:45 haha 14:50:46 let's see 14:51:02 !source _failed_acquirement 14:51:02 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/acquire.cc#L1014 14:51:35 so I'm guessing Xom attempts to create an acquirement-quality item and fails and you get that message 14:51:43 heh 14:51:47 must be what happened 14:51:55 %git :/infinite void 14:51:56 07jpeg02 * 0.5-a0-2732-g4257d4e: * Fix wizmode targetting commands not flushing messages correctly. * Fix Sif Muna's randart book gifts never containing the Vehumet/Kiku special spells, as was originally intended. (Books found elsewhere will never contain the spells.) * In the highly unlikely case the player already has seen all spells don't crash when attempting to gift a book. Instead, simply make the acquirement fail, but be quiet about "the demon of the infinite void" if it was instigated by Sif Muna. 10(8 years ago, 7 files, 95+ 30-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4257d4e4ef09 14:52:07 that's an ancient line 14:52:20 heh 14:57:22 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:58:38 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:02 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 15:04:07 03Brannock02 07* 0.20-a0-648-gf56736b: Reduce frequency of !Mutation 10(34 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f56736b52f28 15:04:56 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:12:16 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 15:12:32 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:26:14 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:30:22 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:30:36 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:33:44 -!- Scott___ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:35:14 <|amethyst> hm.. seeing that comment there makes me think that our "} by itself" rule might be bad for do-while 15:35:31 it didn't seem to break anything when I tested 15:35:35 but yeah, felt weird insertnig a comment there 15:35:37 <|amethyst> the comment IMO makes the problem (is it a block followed by a while statement, or the end of a do-while?) worse 15:35:39 wasn't sure where else to put it though 15:35:45 <|amethyst> hm 15:35:54 <|amethyst> yeah, it's hard when the comment is that long 15:36:01 <|amethyst> maybe on the do ? 15:36:24 <|amethyst> it doesn't break anything except human comprehension :) 15:37:05 <|amethyst> (must go again, back later probably) 15:39:51 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:41:47 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:42:50 -!- Jetnerd has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:43:57 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:46:32 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 15:54:22 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:59:36 -!- aditya has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:06 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:04:57 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:09:26 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-648-gf56736b (34) 16:10:32 -!- yesno__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:10:36 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:33 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 16:15:53 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:16:11 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:19:05 -!- snux has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:19:59 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 16:22:22 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:06 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:13 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:31:48 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:36:30 -!- ddubois has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:40:26 03Brannock02 07* 0.20-a0-649-gd69f00c: Add god_creation.txt (Cerol) 10(31 seconds ago, 1 file, 428+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d69f00c381e9 16:41:15 -!- Kranix has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:43:06 03Brannock02 07* 0.20-a0-650-gd54866b: Better place makeitem.cc comments (|amethyst) 10(33 seconds ago, 1 file, 7+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d54866b8c3d2 16:44:10 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:50:48 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:52:56 !tell ontoclasm go ahead and commit scarves whenever you feel you're finished with them. If you want me to set up the shuffling code for the different flavors just hmu 16:52:56 Brannock: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 16:54:41 -!- mroovka has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:58:24 seeing a radical idea on tavern... 16:58:42 remove amulets, make them all scarves (also give them the delay) 16:58:46 armour equipment delay 17:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:34 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 17:01:42 is there a way to exit wizmode? 17:01:48 -!- Writ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:02:20 -!- LexAckson__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:02:37 another question: what is the normal way to fix the darkblue thing on consoles? I'm using "allow_extended_colours=true" but I just saw minmay posted something completely different in tavern 17:02:38 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:03:24 just realized I should double check the noise meter thing with whatever terminal color settings there are 17:05:38 can't exit wizmode 17:05:58 advil: that one works too 17:06:01 hm maybe what you posted is for 16 color TERMs? 17:06:43 I'm using the above setting with TERM=xterm-256color 17:09:20 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-650-gd54866b (34) 17:09:41 <|amethyst> advil: for people without a 256color TERM, you want bold_brightens_foreground = true 17:10:10 <|amethyst> advil: so it might be good to do both, if you sometimes play from 256-color terminals and sometimes from 16-color 17:10:40 ok thanks 17:10:49 I see that 'xterm' is actually 8 colors 17:11:02 according to tput 17:12:44 <|amethyst> yeah, 16-color terminals usually show up as 8, because they're 8 + bold 17:12:49 oh 17:13:07 <|amethyst> and xterm (and putty and others) can be configured to either make bold brighten the colour or not 17:13:49 <|amethyst> and it's not uncommon to have "16" foreground colours but only 8 background, hence bold_brightens_foreground and blink_brightens_background being separate settings 17:14:34 <|amethyst> the change was because, if you don't have bold change the colour, darkgrey is just "bold black" and is invisible on a black background 17:14:37 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 17:16:48 yeah, the OS X terminal has that issue 17:16:51 by default at least 17:17:23 <|amethyst> that used to be the default in putty 17:17:46 <|amethyst> oh, one difference you might notice between those two settings 17:18:04 <|amethyst> if you use allow_extended_colours=true the bright colours will be in the normal non-bold font 17:18:32 <|amethyst> whereas with most terminals' defaults bold_brightens_foreground = true will make them both bright *and* bold 17:18:54 ok, so check all things basically 17:20:33 <|amethyst> yeah, and how noticeable it is will depend on your font of course 17:23:17 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:23:21 17:25:39 <|amethyst> 17:26:14 <|amethyst> !learn add � |amethyst's favourite character 17:26:15 [2/2]: |amethyst's favourite character 17:26:19 <|amethyst> ?? 17:26:21 <|amethyst> huh 17:26:26 <|amethyst> !learn q 17:26:26 [1/2]: |amethyst's favourite unicode character! 17:26:32 <|amethyst> weird 17:26:40 <|amethyst> !learn rm �[2] 17:26:40 Deleted �[2/2]: |amethyst's favourite character 17:27:44 <|amethyst> ?? 17:27:46 <|amethyst> ?? �[1] 17:28:01 <|amethyst> ??� 17:28:02 teleporter[1/2]: Common vault feature defined in lua, most prominent over in zigsprint. Instantly teleports the player over to a pre-defined square when stepped on, usually for no reason whatsoever. 17:28:17 <|amethyst> hm, no idea why ?? doesn't work 17:28:38 <|amethyst> probably green.snark added a special case to mess with me 17:31:55 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 17:34:31 whoa, os x terminal with xterm and allow_extended_colours does some weird things -- some armour is blinking? 17:36:05 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:36:13 <|amethyst> huh 17:36:43 <|amethyst> does it fix it to set best_effort_brighten_background = false ? 17:36:45 my wonderfully deconstructive and radically post-modernist character is far superior to minmay's recurring laconic 'j' 17:37:12 I'll try in a sec 17:37:15 I mean, that combination of options might not be expected to work 17:37:59 <|amethyst> unless you have set blink_brightens_background = true on a terminal that doesn't support it, you shouldn't get blinking, and if you do it's a bug 17:38:55 <|amethyst> but best_effort_brighten_background being true by default does sound kind of buggy 17:39:11 <|amethyst> since "brighten background" means "turn on the blink flag" 17:39:28 ah I see what you mean...but os x terminal is kind of weird so I wouldn't be surprised if it's not crawl's fault 17:39:40 one sec, I'm style cycling through normal options and terminals for the noise meter first 17:39:44 *still 17:40:04 <|amethyst> since the point of the change was to better support broken terminals, it'd be a cop-out to blame the blinking on the terminal :) 17:40:10 heh 17:41:31 is it expected that BLACK maps to dark blue? 17:41:39 on a lot of settings actually 17:42:23 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:42:35 <|amethyst> yeah, the new system tries really hard never to make things invisible 17:42:46 <|amethyst> and black on black would be 17:42:58 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:43:07 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 17:43:21 <|amethyst> I was a bit sad when my pizza=fnord stopped working 17:43:29 <|amethyst> but then MarvinPA removed pizza so it's all good 17:44:12 well, drawing black on black might be an ok heuristic if you want things to be invisible :-) 17:45:10 -!- aditya has joined ##crawl-dev 17:45:50 So this just happened - I was fighting draconians with spellbinder. It caused a miscast from a draconian which killed one of my orc allies. Beogh put me under penance saying I killed the orc. 17:45:58 Is that expected? 17:47:40 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:49:39 yes 17:49:44 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:49:47 ??spellbinder 17:49:47 spellbinder[1/4]: the +5 demon whip "Spellbinder" {antimagic, MR+}; causes miscast effects on spell-using targets related to the kind of spells they cast. 17:49:50 ??spellbinder[2 17:49:50 spellbinder[2/4]: !lg minmay 2940 -tv:T116100 17:49:52 ??spellbinder[3 17:49:52 spellbinder[3/4]: !lm SGrunt spsk uniq=the_Enchantress -tv:<0.2:>0.2 17:49:54 ??spellbinder[4 17:49:54 spellbinder[4/4]: !lg * cikiller~~Spellbinder 2 -tv 17:49:56 that's the one 17:50:34 I actually suspect there's a bunch of cases in output.cc that assume that textcolour(BLACK) will not print anything, though none of them look like they have any impact, mostly just look like they're using it for safety 17:51:09 in any case, that explains why this thing I did didn't work perfectly on console 17:51:40 I really hate this colour_bar class 17:52:49 -!- Writ has quit [Changing host] 17:53:25 -!- exant has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:54:24 |amethyst: I believe it's also the case that BLACK prints as black on local tiles 17:55:01 there should be a warning :( 17:55:07 I almost died because of penance 17:55:33 miscast effects can be pretty wild 18:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:37 03advil02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/454 * 0.20-a0-597-g4602f40: Slight tweak to look better with 256 color terminals. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4602f40636da 18:02:29 |amethyst: on OS X terminal, with "best_effort_brighten_background = false", "allow_extended_clours=true", and TERM=xterm I do not get blinking 18:03:56 btw with TERM=xterm-256color and allow_extended_colours=true it's ok as well, so that's the immediate workaround for OS X console users 18:05:31 I'm not on current os x, so it's conceivable it got better 18:06:41 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 18:09:08 03|amethyst02 07* 0.20-a0-651-g496bc70: Don't risk making text blink (advil) 10(39 seconds ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/496bc707fa2d 18:12:00 Pleasingfungus: hi 18:12:00 alexjurkiewicz: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 18:12:18 CanOfWorms: i submitted a pr to fix that teleport closet, thanks for the report 18:14:09 cool, let me check if I can quickly merge that 18:16:06 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.20-a0-650-gd54866b (34) 18:17:07 Pleasingfungus: Brannock: Hep names patch http://dpaste.com/2TPWFCN 18:17:17 03alexjurkiewicz02 {CanOfWorms} 07* 0.20-a0-652-g036a0c5: Remove teleport closets from chequers_ecumenical_altar_grove (#458) 10(10 seconds ago, 1 file, 9+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/036a0c5a11fa 18:17:24 sadly it makes arabic names w:5 since I had to remove so many :( 18:18:58 -!- Guest884 has quit [K-Lined] 18:26:04 is the inability to exit wizmode for some reason? (cheating? but I see there's a flag in the save for this case) 18:30:38 -!- rumflump has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:31:25 -!- Jetnerd has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:31:27 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31:41 -!- Icedale has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31:42 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:35:24 advil: how would exiting wizmode be useful? 18:36:32 -!- Icedale_ is now known as Icedale 18:36:38 does it make sense to put a warning on spellbinder? 18:36:45 miscast effects can put you into penance 18:36:55 I am sure using it against OOF as Dith guy might put you in penance 18:37:40 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 18:40:31 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:40:44 -!- rumflump has joined ##crawl-dev 18:42:32 minmay: in my particular case I'm modifying the UI and it looks different outside of wizmode. So I have to recompile each time to test certain cases, or to make screenshots. Maybe that's a niche situation though. 18:42:57 you shouldn't need to recompile. one build can support normal and wizmode, you know right? 18:43:13 aditya: fire miscasts from spellbinder don't trigger penance 18:43:15 aditya: or piety loss or anything 18:43:17 aditya: I'm pretty sure issues like that with spellbinder are considered bugs 18:43:33 (eg the ones where you summon creatures but also damage them and they turn instantly hostile) 18:43:52 alexjurkiewicz: right, but say I want to make a screenshot with gong or even just a lightning bolt 18:43:52 GONNNNG! 18:43:52 aditya: although I suppose you could put a warning on spellbinder that says "this weapon can summon twisters, hostile fire vortices, or just instantly kill you sometimes" 18:44:12 advil: ah, i see 18:44:14 maybe this just doesn't matter for most testing though 18:44:32 well then why is the beogh thing a penance? 18:44:47 is it a bug or not 18:44:54 * alexjurkiewicz hopes |amethyst will suggest how to modify a crawl save file by editing a single byte offset to disable wizmode 18:45:04 aditya: you mean spellbinder micasts killing/angering your allies and causing okawaru/beogh penance? 18:45:11 yes 18:45:22 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:45:26 well i think there are 2 bugs here 18:45:28 I mean - if fire miscasts are ignored by Dith 18:45:35 then they should be ignored by other gods too 18:45:40 -!- cspar has joined ##crawl-dev 18:45:41 one bug is spellbinder existing, the other bug is beogh/okawaru penalizing you for attacking allies 18:45:42 miscasts I mean 18:45:55 well it's a nice weapon 18:46:03 it's not that fire miscasts are ignored. There's no code to support "generating fire miscasts on an enemy is against dith's conduct" 18:46:12 thanks to it I survived when I abyssed a curse skull 18:46:31 they ARE "ignored" by other gods in the same sense that they are "ignored" by dith 18:47:12 why do you dislike spellbinder minmay? It's a really fun weapon imo 18:47:33 probably why... 18:47:45 maybe the weapon description could just be more explicit about the range of stuff that could happen 18:47:57 -!- cspar_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:48:01 because I shouldn't have to know about approximately 50 different effects in order to know what a weapon does 18:48:25 and also hitting a monster in melee shouldn't summon twisters 18:48:53 or do 3d20 damage to me 18:48:59 but those are bugs! 18:49:03 no true spellbinder... 18:49:37 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 18:50:16 if crawl had sane miscast effects then spellbinder would be a neat item 18:50:29 but instead crawl has like 50 different miscast effects so spellbinder is really awkward and bad 18:51:17 just need a way to suppress certain miscasts, or to tag that they shouldn't affect player/allies 18:55:15 -!- koboldina has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:59:37 -!- Elitist has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:37 -!- Icedale has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.7] 19:03:13 adding special cases just makes the problem even worse 19:04:06 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 19:04:45 to improve miscast effects enough for spellbinder to be a sensible item you need to make them independent of spell school and greatly reduce the number of them 19:09:17 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-652-g036a0c5 (34) 19:20:02 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:23:09 -!- scummos__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:13 -!- yesno__ is now known as yesno 19:30:51 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 51.0.1/20170125094131]] 19:31:08 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:33:05 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:33:54 alexjurkiewicz, I'm trying to apply this patch and it's throwing an error "corrupt patch at line 24" 19:34:06 line 24 is.. blank 19:34:33 oh it might be a submodule thing again 19:35:32 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 19:37:46 derp 19:37:55 honestly, i'm going to delete my local copy and re-clone 19:38:00 you don't need to do that 19:38:05 just use the git command I mentioned 19:38:08 unless that didn't work 19:38:10 git submodule update? 19:38:34 well, whatever's wrong with this patch, it isn't the submodule change in sqlite 19:38:41 might be my editor 19:39:26 yeah it was my editor 19:41:00 -!- andrew__ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:41:39 rip 19:41:39 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 19:42:10 -!- destroythecore has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:44:24 ?? I'm completely confused now. It wasn't my editor, it's just throwing an error on blank lines no matter what 19:44:24 I don't have a page labeled I'm_completely_confused_now._It_wasn't_my_editor,_it's_just_throwing_an_error_on_blank_lines_no_matt in my learndb. 19:44:30 thanks sequell 19:45:21 line numbers ok? 19:46:02 http://dpaste.com/2TPWFCN.txt this is the patch in question 19:46:17 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:46:25 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:46:51 maybe I'll just do this manually and credit Alex 19:50:30 03alexjurkiewicz02 {Brannock} 07* 0.20-a0-653-ge0c4e5a: Remove some too-common ancestor names 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 33-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e0c4e5a57291 19:50:53 hmm git apply --stat makes it look ok, but get apply --check gives an error 19:50:57 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 19:51:01 yeah, same 19:51:12 I ended up just applying it manually then --amend author= 19:51:53 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:52:28 -!- Fixer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:54:11 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 19:55:13 the problem is something stripped the single space that has to be there (vs. + or - for a changed line) 19:55:40 03advil02 07* 0.20-a0-594-g89ae762: Have ash id stacks when standing on them (10580) 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/89ae762b787e 19:55:40 03Brannock02 {GitHub} 07* 0.20-a0-655-g4bc97ff: Merge pull request #451 from rawlins/ash-id-stacks 10(5 seconds ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4bc97ff5baad 19:57:36 -!- sneakyness has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:59:50 Brannock: I think the noise pr is in good shape in most ways but people here had various strong opinions about the HUD, so I should maybe see if those who had such opinions have more feedback 20:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:04 especially now that I actually implemented the removal of gold from the HUD 20:00:24 crawl has submodules? O.o 20:00:59 & thanks for merging the ash fix 20:01:11 I'm trying to keep our PRs more active in general :) 20:01:16 they've been pretty badly neglected 20:01:25 :-) 20:01:32 there've been a flurry of them lately it seems 20:01:42 I just try to comment on the ones I find interesting or don't have the technical expertise to authorize, and otherwise just merge the ones that look good and don't break the game 20:02:03 I want to push that fix you did for viewwindow but I wanted someone better versed in Crawl's code to look at it first... 20:02:08 People seem to be busy recently 20:04:44 !tell pleasingfungus have you updated trivial bugs recently? Might have some time to work on a couple again 20:04:45 aditya: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 20:05:18 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 20:05:18 -!- aditya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:05:36 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:09:18 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-655-g4bc97ff (34) 20:12:19 !lg lasty ba 20:12:20 15. Lasty the Slayer (L27 BaSu of Makhleb), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2017-02-16 01:11:03, with 1588744 points after 76320 turns and 5:23:54. 20:12:23 Woo, that's done forever 20:15:07 !tell PleasingFungus you should probably pass judgement on PR 442 at some point. I don't think the other devs care enough about Archery (I certainly don't) 20:15:07 Brannock: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 20:17:16 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:19:13 !tell pleasingfungus !lg lasty ba -- finally won one of these. You were right that summoning does a good job of offsetting their drawbacks. 20:19:14 Lasty: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 20:20:35 !tell pleasingfungus Overall, I don't think these are ready for release: 1) they're balanced around using Hop frequently, and using a racial active frequently is kind of irritating; 2) if your character isn't strong, you need to burn resources or get a lucky long-range hop to escape. Even in games where I had lots of resources, it wasn't enough if my hop luck was bad. 3) The -Hop status lasts for a very long time and needs to be rest 20:20:35 Maximum message length is 340 characters, but you had 416. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 20:20:43 !tell pleasingfungus Overall, I don't think these are ready for release: 1) they're balanced around using Hop frequently, and using a racial active frequently is kind of irritating; 2) if your character isn't strong, you need to burn resources or get a lucky long-range hop to escape. Even in games where I had lots of resources, it wasn't enough if my hop luck was bad. 20:20:43 Maximum message length is 340 characters, but you had 349. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 20:20:54 !tell pleasingfungus Overall, I don't think these are ready for release: 1) they're balanced around using Hop frequently, and using a racial active frequently is kind of irritating; 20:20:55 Lasty: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 20:21:05 !tell pleasingfungus 2) if your character isn't strong, you need to burn resources or get a lucky long-range hop to escape. Even in games where I had lots of resources, it wasn't enough if my hop luck was bad. 20:21:06 Lasty: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 20:21:14 !tell pleasingfungus 3) The -Hop status lasts for a very long time and needs to be rested off after fights where you use it. 20:21:14 Lasty: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 20:21:51 Lasty, there's also been frequent complaints that they're lacking in flavor, especially between the low stats and lack of anything else identifying them as frogs aside from hopping 20:21:51 I think the race needs more zazz 20:21:51 Brannock: that's also a thing 20:22:01 When Floodkiller was working on his Cyno protoype (before it got scrapped), I was very impressed with the addition of Strong Nose 20:22:06 Because it was zazzy and thematic 20:22:10 It makes players go "Neat! I want to try this!" 20:22:18 Brannock: In theory, the exciting thing about them is hop itself, but hop is really punishing and unfun to use, at least in my experience. 20:22:49 %git :/strong nose 20:22:49 Could not find commit :/strong nose (git returned 128) 20:22:53 hm, it doesn't do PRs, right 20:23:14 IIRC you also need to cover cases: [sS]trong [nN]ose 20:24:03 !lg greatplayers ba / won 20:24:07 49/983 games for greatplayers (ba): N=49/983 (4.98%) 20:24:12 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/426/commits/8c782ba5ec87cec49c3025494f70590f0bc47fd6 20:24:19 !lg * ba / won 20:24:20 72/4388 games for * (ba): N=72/4388 (1.64%) 20:24:35 23 won by not-greatplayers 20:24:41 so the race went from a weird (if interesting) skill limitation to "Wow, they're smelly dogs who learn fast but cap low" 20:24:47 it's like the poison spit for naga 20:24:52 they don't *need* it but it helps tie the theme together 20:27:01 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:29:48 I think that hop as a standalone ability is pretty cool 20:30:03 one hop and two drawbacks 20:30:10 -!- jefus- has joined ##crawl-dev 20:30:13 not necessarily as a species mutation even 20:30:19 I think hop is very cool but that the two drawbacks make Barachian unappealing 20:30:50 I'd replace the low stats with something else flavorful. Slow movement 1 is sufficient imho 20:30:53 it is an ability that is always manually targeted, which does add to annoyance 20:31:04 if it has to be used frequently, that is 20:31:59 !lg gammafunk ba 20:31:59 No games for gammafunk (ba). 20:32:24 I won a bane 20:32:26 I played my Ba games on experimental 20:32:34 trust me, I'm an expert on Ba 20:32:46 check out my bane win to see how OP I was 20:33:11 -!- jeefus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:33:26 Hop is an exciting power that puts the species in a really awkward place: it's too strong to allow free use, but if you make the species weak, they have to lean on it a ton 20:33:55 yeah, I agree with (what I think is) your sentiment that it'd be nice to have to not use it too much 20:34:16 that is sort of a personal choice thing 20:34:24 some people will really not mind this I'm sure 20:35:23 Lasty, initial draft for turning !degen into situational instead of always-bad: potion of degeneration -> potion of forbidden power. Double(?) stats for a short duration, then degenerate all 3 stats as current (or more severe) potion behavior. 20:35:40 And since it's super luck based (2 tiles or 6 tiles), sometimes the power effectively doesn't exist 20:35:44 Double is probably too much. +5 all? 20:35:58