00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:00 -!- dondy has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5] 00:06:53 -!- elan has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:11:10 -!- adelrune has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:11:30 -!- dextar has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:13:40 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:14:36 -!- eb_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:20:18 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:20:23 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:20:39 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:20:51 -!- hellmonk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:24:34 -!- meff` has joined ##crawl-dev 00:27:25 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Client Quit] 00:28:25 -!- exant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:29:40 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:30:06 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:30:12 -!- MgDark_ is now known as MgDark 00:31:30 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-550-gf70bbbc (34) 00:32:53 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 00:33:05 do we have any FreeBSD devs here? 00:33:12 Pull 439 has been wanting attention 00:34:03 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:34:34 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 00:40:40 -!- Jetnerd has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:43:21 -!- Kuprin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:45:55 -!- Kasofa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:47:54 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:53:38 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 51.0.1/20170125094131]] 01:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:09 -!- destroythecore has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:01:23 -!- simmarine_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:03:43 -!- Harudoku has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:06:36 -!- zxc has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:11:47 -!- advil has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:12:23 -!- lukano has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:12:59 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:12:59 -!- Bammboo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:12:59 -!- Ragnor has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:12:59 -!- Guest93116 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:12:59 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:13:04 -!- Bammboobies is now known as Bammboo 01:13:06 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 01:13:13 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 01:13:29 -!- bh is now known as Guest55228 01:13:35 -!- us17 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:13:35 -!- miek_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:13:35 -!- Wah has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:13:36 -!- Tea-Rex has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:14:04 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:14:56 -!- miek_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:18:45 -!- advil has joined ##crawl-dev 01:22:49 -!- ebarrett_ has quit [] 01:32:28 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:41:36 -!- mong has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:44:40 -!- jefus- has joined ##crawl-dev 01:45:18 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:48:43 -!- jeefus has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:04:18 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:05:22 -!- SurpriseTRex__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:11:41 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:14:45 -!- twelwe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:14:53 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 02:17:11 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:19:12 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 02:24:20 -!- Bammboo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:31 -!- Ultraviolent4 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:30:14 -!- fazisi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:35:36 -!- mong has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:35:49 -!- Hiffwe has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:39:57 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 02:41:39 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 02:42:26 -!- sgun_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:30 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 02:49:17 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 02:54:04 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:57:02 -!- Enthusiasm has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:58:25 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 02:58:25 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 03:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:12:59 -!- staplegun has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:17:13 -!- Bammboo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:19:10 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:22:42 Experimental (councilgod-PR) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-562-g1086055 03:27:06 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 03:31:07 -!- matp has quit [Quit: ZZzzzZz...] 03:35:40 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-550-gf70bbbc (34) 04:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:02:56 -!- epsik has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:03:45 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 04:08:55 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 04:15:01 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:31:29 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:31:34 -!- demise has quit [Client Quit] 04:33:22 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 04:36:02 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:42:58 -!- yuastnav has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:43:15 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 05:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:10:56 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:10:57 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:11:17 -!- Euph0ria has joined ##crawl-dev 05:18:15 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 05:30:19 -!- ai_4_dcss has joined ##crawl-dev 05:32:12 -!- ai_4_dcss has quit [Client Quit] 05:41:10 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:43:31 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:08:05 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:10:22 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:10:22 -!- Ratatosk has joined ##crawl-dev 06:15:13 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:16:01 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:26:06 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:27:36 http://i.imgur.com/ggPxZcq.png 06:28:24 this is "difficulty" (usually caveats about dcss is trivial from D:-infinity apply) 06:28:37 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:40:40 -!- Fixer has joined ##crawl-dev 06:40:54 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:43:07 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 06:50:46 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:51:38 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:53:23 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 06:55:03 -!- EuphOria has joined ##crawl-dev 06:55:08 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:08 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:02:46 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:04:34 -!- EuphOria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:04:44 -!- Euph0ria has joined ##crawl-dev 07:07:32 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:13:14 Doesn't the scale sort of saturate at 27 though? 07:13:30 Or rather than saturate, become a bit meaningless since you either spend very little time there, or much longer 07:14:03 I feel like a per-branch and per-level one would be more informative 07:14:05 -!- Tiltorax has joined ##crawl-dev 07:18:13 -!- matp has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:18:52 SteelNeuron: that's why we filter for runes 07:19:07 I don't see how it's innately meaningless if the player is trying to win 07:20:19 you could make the graph more elaborate in various ways to show the locations of death, but zxc just added annotations for average xl for e.g. entering lair 07:20:23 -!- Yermak has joined ##crawl-dev 07:20:38 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:21:05 -!- Euph0ria has joined ##crawl-dev 07:21:09 that peak around 10-11 is lair entry 07:21:20 But how can you tell it died at 3 runes because they spatted at zot, or because they were farming pan 07:21:39 you could filter, but when you look at those deaths 07:21:39 regardless of whether it's a good decision to start extended there ;) 07:21:44 zot dominates 07:21:45 you could filter out pan/hell deaths 07:21:53 oh, fair enough 07:21:59 the zot deaths are over 2x at xl 27 07:22:31 !lm goodplayers current stable !boring explbr= x=avg(xl) br.enter=zot 07:22:46 1773 milestones for goodplayers (current stable !boring explbr= br.enter=zot): avg(xl)=25.72 07:22:52 !lm goodplayers current stable !boring explbr= x=avg(xl) br.end=zot 07:22:58 !lm goodplayers current stable !boring explbr= x=avg(xl) orb 07:22:59 1679 milestones for goodplayers (current stable !boring explbr= br.end=zot): avg(xl)=26.24 07:23:23 also... doesn't a different XP apt muddle it a bit too? 07:23:24 !lm goodplayers current stable !boring explbr= x=avg(xl) won 07:23:37 muddle it how 07:23:37 A human anda demigod dying at the entrance to lair would probably do at a different level 07:23:40 you're looking at averages 07:23:43 and a demigod* 07:24:07 !lg goodplayers current stable !boring explbr= x=avg(xl) won 07:24:14 1471 games for goodplayers (current stable !boring explbr= won): avg(xl)=26.66 07:24:27 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:24:30 90s limit exceeded: killed !lm goodplayers current stable !boring explbr= x=avg(xl) orb 07:24:39 has a hard time with !lm 07:24:45 even though there aren't too many milestones 07:24:56 !lm goodplayers current stable !boring explbr= x=avg(xl) orb 07:25:38 121413 milestones for goodplayers (current stable !boring explbr= won): avg(xl)=19.54 07:25:49 heh 07:26:57 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:26:59 yeah the peak in the graph is at xl11 07:27:00 1533 milestones for goodplayers (current stable !boring explbr= orb): avg(xl)=26.6 07:27:09 average xl for entering lair is 11.03 07:27:13 so it captures that very well 07:31:34 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:32:57 -!- Floodkiller has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:36:13 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:36:36 -!- surr has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:39:00 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:41:26 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:42:38 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:42:47 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:42:58 -!- Euph0ria has joined ##crawl-dev 07:45:52 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:46:34 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:47:27 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:52:10 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:54:10 Yep, fair enough 07:54:50 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06:08 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:06:27 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:06:32 -!- Euph0ria has joined ##crawl-dev 08:07:04 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:08:01 -!- Euph0ria has joined ##crawl-dev 08:10:47 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:12:45 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:17:41 random idea: 08:17:54 Poison can't kill you, but any ticks that would take you under 1 HP instead cause random stat damage 08:18:30 reasoning: it's just very anticlimactic to die from poison 08:23:13 -!- EuphOria has joined ##crawl-dev 08:23:14 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:27:47 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:28:55 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:33:30 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:34:14 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:34:51 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 08:37:34 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:44:57 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 08:49:38 -!- EuphOria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:50:01 -!- Euph0ria has joined ##crawl-dev 08:53:26 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:54:05 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:56:19 -!- EuphOria has quit [Client Quit] 08:57:09 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01:51 -!- bannakaffalatta has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 09:03:53 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:04:15 -!- Euph0ria has joined ##crawl-dev 09:10:23 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:10:55 -!- Euph0ria has joined ##crawl-dev 09:15:42 -!- EuphOria has joined ##crawl-dev 09:15:42 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:29:08 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 09:29:24 Cute little idea by monkeytor on tavern: give Transmuters a !lignification. 09:29:44 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:30:08 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30:35 Character notes claim that evolution ended even when rank of mutation was just decreased 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10927 by Yermak 09:33:46 -!- HDA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:35:05 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:35:24 -!- Rust3dCor3 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:35:45 Hello! I'm having trouble accessing the experiment branches when playing on CBRO via console. I don't see the options to select the experimental branches anymore. Were they removed intentionally? 09:36:38 johnstein: ^ 09:36:39 HDA: they are under trunk 09:36:55 johnstein: never mind :P 09:36:55 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 09:36:58 from main menu, tx 09:36:59 Thanks advil. I see them there 09:37:03 I always forget that too 09:37:47 they are there due to prior precedent 09:37:48 johnstein: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 09:38:09 I've considered moving them to the main page and separating out the official ones from the less official ones 09:39:44 seems reasonable to me 09:41:00 maybe hellcrawl should be in a different category altogether? 09:43:23 dunno. I'd probably consider it in the same category as a pull request one. it's just more XTREEEM 09:50:21 As someone working in an unofficial experimental, I'd say that having equal visibility to official ones is really cool and healthy. My suggestion would be to have a separate "experimentals" menu where all of them are grouped 09:50:52 so they don't clutter the main many for people who want to play trunk, but where everythings gets an equal share :). That's just my two cents. 09:51:14 s/many/menu. I can't brain. 09:53:56 <|amethyst> IMO the distinction if any shouldn't be devteam vs non-devteam, but rather whether it's in sequell 09:54:14 -!- RBrandon has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:54:21 <|amethyst> which would classify councilgod as "official" 09:54:40 <|amethyst> but I'm not sure there are enough to need to separate them? 09:54:52 <|amethyst> maybe just a newline in the middle, but all one menu 09:54:53 -!- EuphOria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:55:02 <|amethyst> or a newline and a header line 09:55:08 <|amethyst> s/newline/empty line/ 09:55:20 -!- Euph0ria has joined ##crawl-dev 09:57:31 -!- bannakaffalatta has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:04:09 -!- HDA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:06:11 That sounds good too 10:08:41 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:08:42 -!- EuphOria has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:29 -!- Fixer has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:38 -!- EuphOria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:14:56 -!- Euph0ria has joined ##crawl-dev 10:19:09 -!- AreBrandon has joined ##crawl-dev 10:20:47 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 10:22:58 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:07 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:33:35 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:35:14 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:36:30 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:37:22 -!- Euph0ria has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:21 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:43:48 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:44:40 -!- Euph0ria has joined ##crawl-dev 10:46:10 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:48:42 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:09 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:59:39 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:13 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:01:55 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:04:53 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:06:58 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:13:48 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:14:52 -!- bannakaf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:17:10 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:17:38 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:17:55 -!- Euph0ria has joined ##crawl-dev 11:20:49 -!- matp_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:30:34 -!- Ratatosk has quit [Quit: Ratatosk] 11:31:38 -!- Fixer has joined ##crawl-dev 11:34:50 -!- Awod has quit [] 11:37:52 -!- Euph0ria has left ##crawl-dev 11:38:29 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:42:12 -!- adelrune has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:45:20 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:45:29 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 11:46:28 -!- THERetroGamerNY has quit [Quit: Be Blessed!] 11:46:39 -!- EuphOria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:49:34 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:49:55 -!- adelrune has quit [Client Quit] 11:51:12 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:53:35 -!- bannakaffalatta has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 11:54:24 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:55:11 -!- meff` has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:55:36 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:59:01 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:40 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:51 -!- elan has quit [Client Quit] 12:01:11 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:11 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:02:43 -!- Euph0ria is now known as EuphOria 12:03:52 -!- Dixie has quit [Quit: brb] 12:04:15 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:17 -!- EuphOria has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:24 -!- zxc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:07:40 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:07:44 -!- MgDark_ is now known as MgDark 12:08:48 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:09:02 -!- MgDark has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09:41 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:10:58 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:16:14 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:16:35 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:17:56 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:39 -!- uelen has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:21:01 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 12:22:27 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:22:52 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-550-gf70bbbc (34) 12:24:02 -!- Ratatosk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:28 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:45 -!- Yermak has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:34:21 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:10 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:21 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:08 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:59 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:01:54 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:01:58 -!- EuphOria is now known as Euph0ria 13:03:02 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:08:07 -!- nattefrost has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:12:16 -!- Cerpin has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:16:22 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 13:21:33 -!- mek__ has quit [Client Quit] 13:21:56 -!- Tiltorax has left ##crawl-dev 13:25:07 -!- sour-sou2 has quit [Client Quit] 13:25:44 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:27:34 -!- Ratatosk has quit [Quit: Ratatosk] 13:28:11 -!- sour-sour has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:29:26 -!- THERetroGamerNY has quit [Quit: Be Blessed!] 13:29:32 -!- Cerpin has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:32:53 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 13:37:48 -!- sour-sour has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:39:38 -!- Cerpin has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41:48 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 13:41:51 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 51.0.1/20170125094131]] 13:44:40 -!- jeefus has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:10 -!- OrphineM has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:48:41 -!- jefus- has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:51:01 -!- Xiguana has joined ##crawl-dev 13:52:14 -!- OrphineM_ is now known as OrphineM 13:52:35 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:54:47 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 13:56:14 -!- OrphineM has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:58:15 Greetings. I am writing a novel and have an important question to the development team. I have a few inspirations from the dungeon crawl game some of which could be even called plagiarism. If it is any good i would like to have the book printed and sold. Do you have objections against this? 14:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:11 -!- Boatshow has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:02:41 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:05 what exactly are the sources of inspiration you're using? 14:05:44 -!- Cerpin has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:28 Some spells, book names mb monsters and i thought about using hell branches alongside the rune guardians but im not sure about this one 14:07:47 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:09:32 I don't speak for the other devs, but you could just "take inspiration" and tweak the details 14:10:08 the rune guardians of hell runes are all existing names from mythology 14:10:13 -!- equivobot is now known as yesno 14:13:31 for book names, I think "fen folio" is the only title that might be an issue, grand grimoire/necronomicon/poisoner's handbook are all references 14:13:38 I think the GPL pretty much lets you "plagiarise" as much as you want in that context 14:13:41 and the rest of them are just book of 14:14:24 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 14:17:48 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:18:36 I know but my primary idea was to give crawl some plot and then i decided to keep reducing the amount of plagiarism and be more original but some elements could be funny like fighting killer bees with a halberd or something but i decided to quit it too. I wanted to know grand grimoire because i wanted to use it. So I am allowed am i right? 14:19:00 it's a reference to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Grimoire 14:19:09 *presumably 14:19:21 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 14:20:22 so I don't see any problems with the name 14:21:35 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:23:44 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:23:57 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:49 I meant like no objections in total apart from fen folio and some minor things ? 14:26:07 I don't know the exact details of what crawl's license allows you to do but about 99% of the stuff in crawl can be massaged to be a nod 14:26:21 especially since most of the stuff in crawl references other stuff :v 14:29:53 okay. thanks for permission and help. 14:32:35 -!- nattefrost_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:11 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:35:36 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 14:39:05 -!- Xiguana has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:58:05 -!- dondy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:58:11 -!- dondy1 is now known as dondy 15:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:04 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 15:05:24 i wonder if we should mark ozo's as unmemorizeable when you're wearing armour that's too heavy 15:06:00 cons: bad ui. pros: good ui, since it prevents wasting spell levels/amnesia memorizing it when you're using armour that's too heavy (has happened to me repeatedly, since i'm dumb) 15:06:06 alternately, could add a custom warning 15:06:17 a warning sounds better 15:06:50 making it unmemorizable might confuse a ru-worshipper flipping through randart books 15:08:08 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:08:38 heh 15:08:45 i'll put it on the list. 15:21:33 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:27:22 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:31:33 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:42:08 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:44:04 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:15 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 15:45:24 Is there an up to date wiki article about Corrosion? 15:45:27 Or is it just negative slay? 15:49:04 it is negative slay and negative ac 15:49:11 ??corr 15:49:12 acid[1/3]: May cause you to receive a level of the debuff "Corr". When something attempts to corrode you, it has a Corr_level/(Corr_level+9) chance to fail. Each level of Corr reduces your AC by 4 and gives -4 slaying. Goes away after enough time has passed. Corr(-4) means -4 slaying/-4 AC. Monsters get a non-stacking -8 ac, and have a 1/3 chance to be corroded when splashed. 15:49:58 Hmm, gotcha, thanks :) 15:50:40 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:51:52 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 15:52:46 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:53:21 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:54:10 -!- Jfunk has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:56:05 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:58:15 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 16:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:23 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:03:38 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:04:40 oh CanOfWorms last night someone was asking about contributing title screen splashes to Crawl and was curious about resolution / palette / etc 16:04:49 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:04:50 doesn't look like that person is still here but you might want to send a tell to Euph0ria 16:05:03 I redirected them to ontoclasm but he's away 16:05:49 !tell euph0ria for splash screens, I don't think there are any restrictions other than being 416x416 and having room for the title, see dat/tiles for the existing examples 16:05:49 CanOfWorms: OK, I'll let euph0ria know. 16:07:39 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 16:07:44 416x416 of all resolutions O_o 16:09:13 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 16:10:19 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:11:20 -!- dondy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:12:23 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:12:33 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:13:36 -!- Harudoku has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:18:50 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 16:22:27 dpeg, have you seen SN's Archaeologist PR? 16:22:33 -!- jeefus is now known as jefus 16:22:42 I was reviewing it and quoted something that I remembered you said (a long time ago) 16:23:25 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 16:25:02 -!- simmarine_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:28:05 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:31:33 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 16:32:52 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:55 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:40:29 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:42:13 -!- Kranix has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:44:31 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:46:06 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:46:43 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 16:48:05 -!- mroovka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:48:38 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:49:52 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 16:55:06 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:55:53 -!- SurpriseTRex__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:56:06 03johnny002 {Brannock} 07* 0.20-a0-551-gc8f91ca: Allow travel trails to be cleared while in the level map. 10(9 weeks ago, 4 files, 38+ 17-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c8f91ca9c739 16:56:12 Brannock: didn't know about the PR, but I still think it's a fun idea. Not sure the concept will fly, but I'd try it :) 16:56:48 Just fyi, we were discussing some ideas in the tavern thread to make it more palatable as far as DCSS design goals go :) 16:56:53 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:57:07 I was proposing having unrand starts only 20% of the time, and the rest having some sort of sets 16:57:11 themed around something 16:57:23 like good STR jewelry + a CPA, with a manual of armour 16:57:41 or ring + staff of fire + unrand book with fire spells (SK_FIRE_MAGIC) etc 16:57:52 randart book* 16:58:21 that sounds overly focused 16:58:39 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:58:39 what I liked about the original Archaeologist idea is that it enabled the player to take a different route nearly every playthrough 16:58:54 These focused starts are pretty much laying out an obvious path for the player if they roll it 16:59:20 fair. To be clear, I prefer the raw unrand format 16:59:29 unless I'm misunderstanding your code, in the original PR you might roll, say, Necromancy and then get Punk from the crate. That creates a situation where the player has to figure out how to tie it all together 16:59:43 No, the skills and unrands have a one to one relationship 16:59:47 If the player instead gets STR jewelery, CPA, and manual of Armour... 16:59:48 you're paying with that training, in a sense 16:59:56 Oh, I see 17:00:00 if you're a Mi and get SK_FIRE_MAGIC, you wouldn't want sniper after that 17:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:14 you want to be compensated for going through the pain of training that skill ;) 17:00:27 yes, you'll sometimes get SK_AXES -> Frostbite, but it's a high variance background 17:00:33 BTW another thing you can do to improve #429 is to add documentation in the code :) 17:00:55 I think it's an interesting idea and I'd be willing to work with you to see it through 17:01:05 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:02:40 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 17:03:09 -!- snux has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:04:04 Great! I was planning to put more work into it, for sure 17:04:19 I was waiting a bit because I wanted to focus on IJC and for the experimental field to get a bit less crowded 17:04:53 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:05:29 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:46 -!- dondy1 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5] 17:09:02 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 17:09:23 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-551-gc8f91ca (34) 17:09:50 Okay 17:09:57 hey, awesome 17:09:58 Went through all the PRs and either commented, asked questions, or closed them 17:10:05 new backgrounds are hard to come by, good luck :) 17:10:05 nice!! 17:10:06 Or pushed em 17:10:08 you're our hero :) 17:10:10 -!- Floodkiller has joined ##crawl-dev 17:10:14 !beer Brannock 17:10:15 * Sequell slides a pint of cask ale down the bar to Brannock, courtesy of dpeg. 17:10:22 Well we still have sixteen commits open! 17:10:27 but I'll start closing the ones that don't get replies 17:10:33 s/commits/pulls/ 17:10:51 Brannock: does Doesn't's about chunks have a reply? 17:11:41 I don't see chunks in the PR list, but I asked Doesnty a question about #437 and complexity 17:11:41 And also requested that he break it up into multiple commits 17:11:54 Do we have anyone on the dev team who is familiar with FreeBSD? 17:12:03 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:12:07 i think i'm going to redo that and break it up 17:12:11 I haven't the faintest clue about it, which affects my ability to handle #439 17:12:19 sorry for blowing up in here about it the other day 17:12:37 i don't think any human being actually uses openbsd. 17:12:46 apparently that one guy does! 17:12:50 it's not politically correct, but h*ll, i'll say it anyway! 17:13:22 I'm excited for that Korean translation. That'll help grow the Korean community, though of course I have absolutely no way of ensuring that it's accurate 17:13:48 -!- Ge0ff has quit [Client Quit] 17:14:15 perhaps one day we'll have Asian devs! 17:16:05 time zones would be Fun to deal with 17:16:17 We already have people keeping weird hours 17:16:18 i guess not much worse than the european/american split :P 17:16:22 also true 17:16:35 not much discussion about Cyno in this channel since I complimented Strong Nose a couple weeks ago 17:16:51 Pleasingfungus, what do you think of the species? 17:16:51 they've got a big rework planned 17:16:54 so no sense trying to move them anywhere right now 17:17:09 (removing the hard 14 skill cap, replacing with increased skill cost scaling) 17:17:13 Oh, interesting 17:17:42 Yeah that seems better instead of having an arbitrary cutoff 17:17:50 since there's already a cutoff at 27 anyway 17:19:21 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:22:00 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:23:05 people don't seem to think it was very fun 17:23:18 from what i've seen 17:23:50 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:25:40 yeah, from my own testing I noticed that you eventually reached the point where you started training something just because it was there, not because you were ever going to use it 17:25:51 and I guess it was a sticking point for a lot of people as well 17:26:02 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:26:04 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:26:45 -!- THERetroGamerNY has quit [Quit: Be Blessed!] 17:27:58 !won barachian 17:27:59 No games for barachian. 17:28:03 !won * barachian 17:28:04 * (barachian) has won 56 times in 3598 games (1.56%): 12xBaBe 8xBaFi 7xBaGl 5xBaIE 3xBaAr 3xBaCK 3xBaMo 2xBaAs 2xBaNe 2xBaSk 2xBaSu 2xBaTm 2xBaWn 1xBaFE 1xBaHu 1xBaVM 17:28:08 respectable 17:28:16 BaBe is a great combo word 17:31:22 hell ya, babe 17:31:36 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:33:34 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:36:32 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:38:29 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:39:10 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:41:36 -!- matp has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:05 -!- PKrockin has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:43:45 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 17:43:46 The build passed. (master - c8f91ca #7691 : John Olender): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/197810891 17:43:46 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 17:44:51 -!- simmarine_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:45:07 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:46:13 -!- simmarine_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:30 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 17:46:30 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 17:47:24 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:51:08 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:55:10 Brannock: btw euph0ria got in contact with me, thanks for redirecting them 17:55:16 np 18:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:44 -!- Cerpin has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:39 -!- exant has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:03:31 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 18:06:43 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:11:12 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:12:22 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:15:49 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.20-a0-551-gc8f91ca (34) 18:16:55 -!- bannakaffalatta has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 18:17:16 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:28:41 -!- scummos__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:44 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:36:38 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:38:43 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:38:48 -!- Harudoku has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:43:08 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:45:25 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:46:13 -!- koboldina has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:48:59 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:51:27 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:47 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:12:53 I'll rehash this: Cute little idea by monkeytor on tavern: give Transmuters a !lignification. 19:13:30 For something new: ultraviolent4 has been luring jumping spiders to create web traps. That's amazing, and something we'll probably have to deal with at some time. 19:14:04 i have a plan for that 19:14:15 Pleasingfungus: do the web traps in Spider stay? 19:14:16 i've been meaning to make jumping spider/bag of spiders webs into temporary terrain 19:14:29 ah, I see... that's something I mulled over, too 19:14:30 might be a small technical challenge, but should be doable 19:14:35 this just means i should do it sooner :) 19:15:30 anyone recalls the time when heteroy was using stone of tremors to create elementals on the other side of the wall? Which happened to be the main vault of E:$ <3 19:15:32 players are so cool 19:15:45 i love players. 19:16:36 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:17:33 I wouldn't go so far. But I think I can acknowledge players =) 19:18:16 haha 19:20:16 -!- HarryHood has joined ##crawl-dev 19:23:38 -!- Fixer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:29:18 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:33:29 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:34:31 -!- yesno has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:40:25 players are uncool 19:40:27 remove imo 19:41:19 !lg * tm / won recent 19:41:21 330/384782 games for * (tm): N=330/384782 (0.09%) 19:41:23 !lg * !tm / won recent 19:41:27 10898/6435645 games for * (!tm): N=10898/6435645 (0.17%) 19:41:37 lignify for transmuters would help smooth otu what is a really brutal early game 19:41:46 entirely aside from balance reasons I mean 19:41:52 Brannock: you did that query wrong 19:42:03 the stuff that comes after / is the numerator 19:42:07 oh 19:42:08 oops 19:42:19 !lg * tm recent / won 19:42:22 330/73582 games for * (tm recent): N=330/73582 (0.45%) 19:42:29 they have so many different skills they need to train to come online, and the starting kit doesnt' really *help* at all. so !lignify is a nice emergency fallback 19:42:31 !lg * !tm recent / won 19:42:35 10898/1169146 games for * (!tm recent): N=10898/1169146 (0.93%) 19:43:21 the starting kit doesn't help at all? 19:43:25 -!- Kasofa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:43:27 don't they start with arrows, that helps a lot 19:43:36 that's level 2 isn't it 19:43:46 yeah, but it's easy to get a tm to xl 2 19:44:39 what do we start the other warrior mages with? 19:44:42 !kw warriormage 19:44:43 I am just easily excited by treeform. I think the background does not need it, but doesn't become too strong, so why not do a cool thing? :) 19:44:43 Keyword: warriormage => Sk|Tm|Wr|AM|En 19:44:49 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:44:53 dpeg: complexity! 19:45:55 Pleasingfungus: I am not sure whether you are joking :O 19:46:30 ??warper 19:46:30 warper[1/1]: A hybrid class focused around translocations. Starts with a choice of weapons, some tomahawks of dispersal, skill in fighting, a scroll of blinking and a {book of Spatial Translocations}. 19:46:39 wr starts with a bunch of stuffs 19:46:53 i'm reasonably serious. i think that's the reason not to add a new item type to a background unless there's an active justification to do so 19:46:55 am gets the launcher, which is pretty big, although they don't get a melee weapon do they 19:47:06 ??arcane marksman 19:47:07 arcane marksman[1/2]: Warrior-mage class that starts with a ranged weapon (bow, crossbow, sling, throwing), robe, and a {Book of Debilitation}. 19:47:17 gammafunk: i think you're talking past me a little 19:47:26 sorry, what do you mean? 19:47:36 i'm not arguing that transmuter would become the most complex background, just that it would be more complex than it needs to be 19:47:43 oh, no 19:47:47 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:47:49 I'm not addressing what you're talking about 19:47:52 haha 19:48:00 that would explain it :P 19:48:09 dpeg: i don't have a strong feeling on this one way or another 19:48:11 -!- equivobot has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:48:14 but marvinpa isn't online, so someone has to argue his side 19:48:22 I'm just wondering what we do in any kind of broad sense with these backgrounds 19:48:54 and there's quite the variety in how many tools we give them 19:49:46 variety is good 19:50:25 I think it's better to not just consider "it's cool" but also gameplay 19:50:44 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:50:47 Tm is a harder start for players to master, but this is true of probably all of these "warrior+book" starts 19:51:00 starting !lig fits tm theme (compare: warper ?blink and fighter !might), and gives them a defensive tool in a kit that's otherwise tilted towards attack until you get spider form 19:51:08 and yes, in general Warrior-Mages are tough starts 19:51:37 Animate skeleton on polar bear corpse in water doesnt work 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10928 by Le_Nerd 19:51:42 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 19:51:42 impressive 19:51:59 Well sts is a very defensive spell, and people use tree form also for the damage increase 19:52:08 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:52:10 likewise spider form is a highly defensive form 19:52:15 oh you said that 19:52:50 i say a lot of things. 19:52:54 I guess I don't see any problem with !lig as an item, but I'm not sure Tm needs a buff, certainly doubtful if the only justification is it's cool 19:53:10 Do people think that Tm has problematic difficulty? 19:53:14 gammafunk: no, that's just the first trigger. 19:53:23 so what's the second trigger? 19:53:29 the first one was pretty small! 19:53:43 well, the appeal has to come from somewhere! 19:53:51 I don't see any nuclear reaction going on! time to add more uranium! 19:53:54 "is it neat?" -> "is it mechanically interesting?" -> "does the change have a positive impact?" 19:54:03 other branches there, surely 19:54:25 well that's my question, do we need to be adjusting Tm difficulty 19:54:42 2. one of the weaker backgrounds, 3. it's an item which requires a bit of thought to use (unlike Fi !might, say) 19:55:00 gammafunk: of course we don't. The proposition is to give it a go. 19:55:07 reverts are cheap 19:55:10 this is circular reasoning 19:55:16 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:55:29 "it's harder so we must change it then we can see if it made it easier" 19:56:12 remember we use crawl's classes as a difficulty setting, we're not trying to make all backgrounds the same difficulty 19:56:21 that's not a design goal as far as I'm aware 19:56:34 but that said, I'm not sure what consensus really is on Tm being too hard 19:56:50 for experienced players it's pretty easy, of course, but he difficulty for new players 19:57:00 really comes with things that lig probably won't help do 19:57:09 they're not just difficulty settings, they're also a way to ensure that players have access to certain early spells that you would otherwise ignore if you found them later on in the game (such as beastly appendage) 19:57:32 right but !lig is not addressing this aspect 19:58:00 yeah, it's not exactly rare to find or use !lig early 19:58:00 well Tm is polarizing for many players, in general I see that players either avoid it because it's too painful to get up and running, or we have Tm devotees 19:58:01 No one has any issues with Tm making spells available; it does that fine (neither too little nor too much) 19:58:30 yeah Brannock, but do keep in mind that this doesn't have as much to do with XL 1 survival 19:58:38 -!- epsilonhalbe has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:58:39 as it does with allocation of skill and proper use of sts and the forms 19:58:58 those are challenging for the new player, and a new player with lig is still going to struggle with this 19:59:54 <|amethyst> !lg * recent !boring / xl=1 s=class 20:00:00 155302/1102807 games for * (recent !boring): 29401/52073x Abyssal Knight [56.46%], 12818/45090x Enchanter [28.43%], 10412/66022x Transmuter [15.77%], 10245/38074x Wizard [26.91%], 7777/43902x Fire Elementalist [17.71%], 7444/26741x Necromancer [27.84%], 7186/47354x Conjurer [15.18%], 7070/77729x Monk [9.10%], 6940/233159x Fighter [2.98%], 6201/95155x Berserker [6.52%], 5540/18277x Summoner [30.31%... 20:00:01 all that said I can't see any reason that the change is horrible, but I'm not super clear on why it's necessary 20:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:06 and another thing about Tm 20:00:10 !lg * recent s=cls% 20:00:13 1242773 games for * (recent): 264596x Fighter (21.29%), 102762x Berserker (8.27%), 93069x Gladiator (7.49%), 86066x Monk (6.93%), 73582x Transmuter (5.92%), 54964x Wanderer (4.42%), 54929x Abyssal Knight (4.42%), 51253x Conjurer (4.12%), 48385x Fire Elementalist (3.89%), 47762x Enchanter (3.84%), 41696x Wizard (3.36%), 41217x Hunter (3.32%), 40944x Skald (3.29%), 37841x Assassin (3.04%), 29093x Ne... 20:00:23 note that Tm is the single most popular book start 20:00:28 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 20:01:17 take away some arrows (so more thought about when to use them), give them !lig, nice new package 20:02:21 how much of that is because of people trying OpTm? 20:02:34 !lg * recent !op s=cls% 20:02:38 1162104 games for * (recent !op): 256379x Fighter (22.06%), 101741x Berserker (8.75%), 91128x Gladiator (7.84%), 81797x Monk (7.04%), 53963x Abyssal Knight (4.64%), 51220x Transmuter (4.41%), 50495x Wanderer (4.35%), 48033x Conjurer (4.13%), 45447x Fire Elementalist (3.91%), 44963x Enchanter (3.87%), 40855x Hunter (3.52%), 39746x Skald (3.42%), 37811x Wizard (3.25%), 29853x Assassin (2.57%), 28088... 20:02:47 some, but but the result is the same 20:02:50 wrt book starts 20:03:08 it's a really really popular start 20:03:24 and yeah people are bad at it, but hey that's life sometimes 20:03:31 Enchanter is also very popular 20:03:37 yeah 20:03:39 (Not making a point, just observing) 20:03:50 probably should exclude boring, but I doubt it would change much 20:03:55 !lg * recent !boring !op s=cls% 20:03:59 1027974 games for * (recent !boring !op): 225448x Fighter (21.93%), 94190x Berserker (9.16%), 79263x Gladiator (7.71%), 73674x Monk (7.17%), 51131x Abyssal Knight (4.97%), 44378x Transmuter (4.32%), 44251x Conjurer (4.30%), 42401x Enchanter (4.12%), 41104x Fire Elementalist (4.00%), 37985x Hunter (3.70%), 36522x Skald (3.55%), 34492x Wizard (3.36%), 25755x Necromancer (2.51%), 25402x Assassin (2.4... 20:04:05 heh 20:04:06 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:04:12 people quitting FE 20:04:28 obv we need to live in up Fire Elementalists! 20:04:34 *liven up 20:04:42 hm, if we think that a change is fun (we don't seem agree on Tm + !lig, but hear me out), then why we would take popularity into account? 20:05:11 well Brannock was talking about people getting turned off from the class 20:05:22 I was talking polarisation, not popularity 20:05:28 Tm is divisive 20:05:51 I dunno, a lot of book starts are pretty divisive 20:07:05 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:09:41 One thing in its favor is it gives Tm a guaranteed stand-and-deliver option, even after level 1, compared to the somewhat tedious snake juggling / spider fleeing 20:09:47 Until ice form is online 20:10:13 Snake Juggling 20:10:24 there's clan name potential.... 20:10:36 Tedious Snake Juggling, maybe 20:10:42 positively ouroborosian 20:11:06 I love juggling snakes 20:11:08 wrote the book on it 20:11:50 I know that spectrina would love this change to no end 20:11:58 that's another source of hesitation for me 20:12:15 hahaha 20:12:17 nobody thinks of the customer anymore 20:12:24 !learn add reserved_clan_names Tedious Snake Juggling (pf) 20:12:25 reserved clan names[24/24]: Tedious Snake Juggling (pf) 20:13:06 send in the flavor drones! 20:13:30 <|amethyst> !learn add reserved_clan_names Odious Stank Juggalos 20:13:30 reserved clan names[25/25]: Odious Stank Juggalos 20:14:29 v. nice 20:15:12 I like from the description of that word that google provides: 20:15:22 "Juggalo (feminine Juggalette, or Juggala in Spanish speaking countries)" 20:17:00 juggala 20:18:27 the new Pontiac Juggala 20:26:52 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 20:29:21 03|amethyst02 07* 0.20-a0-552-g2c1049e: Don't mark stones/rocks as wieldable. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 12-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2c1049eb5c72 20:29:21 03|amethyst02 07* 0.20-a0-553-g9f38e11: Give monster Sandblast full range. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9f38e1110834 20:29:27 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:29:42 -!- HarryHood has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:31:57 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:36:26 -!- Dixie has quit [Quit: lates] 20:39:28 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:47:11 -!- Taraiph has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:53:43 mm, good cleanup 20:55:56 -!- thrig has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:50 -!- Poncheis has quit [] 21:09:19 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-553-g9f38e11 (34) 21:10:51 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 51.0.1/20170125094131]] 21:15:05 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 21:16:09 -!- dextar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:18:32 -!- HarryHood has joined ##crawl-dev 21:20:10 but |amethyst I'm gonna get blasted! 21:20:18 ...do any monsters have sandblast? 21:20:20 ghosts? 21:27:30 ghosts 21:28:19 -!- HarryHood has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:28:57 -!- MakMorn has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:29:38 also are people really considering that terrible Tm idea 21:30:16 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 21:34:40 -!- HellTiger has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:08 -!- Boatshow_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:37:35 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:41:51 -!- matp has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:42 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 21:48:42 -!- Enthusiasm has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:20 -!- Boatshow has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:56:15 I mean, not saying it's a terrible idea, but if it is 21:56:23 then someone is definitely considering it, somewhere 21:56:54 it would be better if you just said why it was terrible anyhow 21:57:10 bonus points if you're nice about it 21:57:34 extra bonus points if you use a cute emoticon 22:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:44 -!- Hampooj has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:05:57 gammafunk: I don't want to buff the early game really 22:07:02 me neither lasty 22:07:07 but you didn't use a cute emoticon 22:07:10 so no bonus points, sorry 22:07:29 That's okay, I'm already swimming in them 22:07:55 :D\-< 22:08:12 gammafunk: I realized how to resolve my problems with ammo menus in ranged reform. Then realized that for it to work I need to remove sling bullets and maybe most forms of throwing ammo 22:08:13 I'm interesting in reasons why it's a really bad idea 22:08:37 s/ing/ed/ 22:08:39 wrt lig 22:08:44 hrm 22:08:50 ammo menus? 22:09:08 gammafunk: it sounds like too much power to me 22:09:09 oh, like there's only one type of ammo 22:09:11 yeah 22:09:26 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 22:09:45 well, what kind of menus are there for a launcher? 22:09:57 I guess you need to see your ammo count at all times 22:10:10 I probably don't understand the issue 22:10:50 I wanted to have a single key (Q) for choosing a launcher and its ammo 22:10:55 but I think I can't get away with that 22:14:27 why does there need to be ammo 22:16:05 specifically, what gameplay goal is solved by the existence of ammo 22:16:51 ontoclasm: some kind of niche for ranged combat that doesn't heavily overlap with other kinds of combat. 22:17:30 well when branded ammo existed there was an easy answer to that 22:17:48 i'm not sure ammo accomplishes that 22:17:59 ontoclasm: IMO if it doesn't, we should cut ranged combat. 22:18:16 * ontoclasm shrugs 22:18:30 I don't mean to cut out of an interesting conversation early, but I need to head out for the night. I tried to lay down my rationale for this direction in the CRD email I sent out. 22:18:36 If you're interested. :) 22:18:42 see ya folks 22:18:47 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:33:16 -!- hellmonk has joined ##crawl-dev 22:36:40 -!- epsik has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:41:11 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:47:59 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 22:48:03 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 22:48:45 -!- Dixie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:51:42 -!- Dix has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:53:23 -!- thrig has quit [Changing host] 22:57:13 -!- AreBrandon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:11 -!- Dixie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:04:56 -!- Jack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:07:29 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:07:40 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:36 -!- Dix has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:19:45 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:24:33 -!- Dixie has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:36:15 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:39:56 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 23:50:29 <|amethyst> hm, looking over more sandblast stuff... is there any reason not to have it in _spl_zaps now? 23:51:51 <|amethyst> it says "// special-cased to avoid breaking battlesphere :(" in mon-cast.cc but I'm not sure if that's still relevant 23:52:36 <|amethyst> especially since battlesphere_can_mirror specifically includes SPELL_SANDBLAST despite spell_to_zap not returning a normal zap for it 23:59:29 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:59:38 I think that can be cleaned up yeah 23:59:57 |amethyst, would you happen to know FreeBSD? there's a PR open relating to it and I'm not sure who to offload it onto