00:00:07 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:36 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:01:04 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:01:04 -!- lobf has quit [Client Quit] 00:03:11 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:03:18 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:05:04 -!- lobf has quit [Client Quit] 00:05:16 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:05:50 yep, local network collapsed again, can't even read mail >.< never mind 00:11:32 -!- exant has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:14:42 I can probably ask aegolden to try it; if he has a trackpad, he might be able to see the bug 00:23:04 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:26:12 -!- victorclf has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:30:16 -!- Rotatell has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:31:40 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-522-g0b37eee (34) 00:31:46 -!- johnstein has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:32:07 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 00:32:27 -!- johnstein has joined ##crawl-dev 00:33:52 -!- Rotatell has joined ##crawl-dev 00:36:27 -!- asdu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:43:48 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:45:57 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:52:39 -!- omnia has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:53:55 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 00:54:32 -!- odiv has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:41 -!- Harudoku has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:03:02 -!- AltReality has quit [Client Quit] 01:03:05 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:04:19 -!- staplegun has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:05:34 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 01:09:54 -!- eb_ is now known as eb 01:13:40 -!- Floodkiller has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:14:37 -!- hellmonk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:15:29 -!- |amethyst has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:17:37 -!- |amethyst has joined ##crawl-dev 01:18:49 -!- DevlanMud has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:20:06 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-522-g0b37eee (34) 01:22:10 * geekosaur finally got a checkout... 01:27:09 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 01:36:01 -!- eb has quit [] 01:41:24 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:42:36 nbd if you can't build it, geekosaur, I did email aegolden about it 01:42:40 maybe PF will show up 01:43:21 I built it but forgot to change debug-lite to mac-app-tiles so I'm rebuilding it 01:43:44 uploading the result may be even more "fun" 01:44:40 i sorta imagine geekosaur's internet experience as being based on RFC 1149 01:44:40 amalloy: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 01:44:49 oh good, maybe amalloy can try it 01:44:54 or try that build himself 01:44:58 there are times when that would be an improvement 01:45:01 i'll give it a go 01:45:13 amalloy: lag is tied to using a trackpad, it turns out 01:45:26 http://dpaste.com/03BSGTV is the patch 01:45:33 if you wanted to apply and do a build yourself 01:45:34 it's linking 01:45:50 may still be fastyer to build it locally the way my notwork is going tonight 01:46:16 there's still the embarrassing issue of doing *another* bugfix release 01:46:17 yeah i got yout !tell. interesting that it's trackpad related 01:46:32 patch fixes the issue for me 01:46:42 seems that the slightly modified event processing ran afoul of trackpad finger movement events 01:46:45 wouldn't be the first brown paper bag release. in particular for mac 01:46:48 ok, that's good to hear 01:46:59 at least there's one other important bugfix release 01:47:13 * geekosaur recalls shipping a fake .1 version some versions back because an essential patch was needed for the release to even build 01:47:27 is there an appropriate song quote about dancing through memory that also references screwing things up? 01:47:56 yes, I remember that too 01:48:12 it was the thing about....some needed command-line argument? or maybe that was a different problem 01:48:28 like it would build but not run as an app 01:49:01 had to ignore the ObjC session command line argument apple started to force on app bundles 01:49:18 the shell script wrapper for the console build ignored the option already but tiles refused to start 01:50:06 * geekosaur uploading fwiw 01:50:49 although I thought that one I hotpatched, there was another one where I moved the tag to include a bugfix commit 01:51:08 basically we have a history of botched mac releases :p 01:53:46 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 01:54:51 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 01:56:15 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 01:56:27 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-522-g0b37eee 01:56:35 oh no, I'm thinking of my local Makefile patch to build with LTO (which eventually got merged) 01:57:12 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:59:41 (which I hadn't submitted because I figured the Makefile was forcing -O4 for clang for a reason. turned out the reason was "that was for ancient clang") 02:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:46 LTO is still wierd 02:00:55 I think I have it disabled in the debian package 02:01:07 since under my ubuntu the build was failing 02:01:15 clang's LTO seems fairly solid on both linux and os x for me 02:01:16 I don't think it works on windows either 02:01:27 hrm, I should try again at some point 02:01:32 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:01:33 and it makes a noticeable difference on OS X 02:01:46 yeah, dunno if aegolden used it 02:02:28 I can't make any promises about gcc's LTO though 02:04:13 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:04:59 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:05:44 more recent gcc may well have improved, I think LTO was one of the things in RMS's meltdown over clang vs. gcc 02:12:53 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8376576/crawl_tiles_osx-0.20-a0-522-g0b37eee3ef.zip 02:13:12 -!- NotKintak has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:13:21 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:13:47 hm, assuming that actually still works, they turned a lot of that off because of abuse 02:16:38 thanks, will that url stay around for a bit, geekosaur? 02:16:49 I can move it to cdo, maybe that would help 02:17:22 hrm, well I guess we've confirmed that it fixes the bug anyhow 02:17:55 if anyone else in channel has a trackpad and OS X and can test that url above, is appreciated 02:18:03 I guess though I should push that fix after a cleanup 02:18:12 then see about another bugfix 02:18:32 bugs are dumb 02:18:34 remove imo 02:19:00 heh 02:19:05 add more bugs 02:19:06 imo 02:21:02 cdo url for that build: http://crawl.develz.org/release/crawl_tiles_osx-0.20-a0-522-g0b37eee3ef.zip 02:21:11 just going to have the original reporter confirm that it fixes things 02:21:37 either that url works or it doesn't (becuase dropbox tightened things up). I won;t be removing it myself any time soon 02:21:50 although I am wondering if I can zap the 0.17 builds I have there 02:23:19 https://i.redd.it/zu7hrojuppby.png 02:24:09 -!- Dix has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:24:53 what's odd about that image? 02:26:13 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 02:31:38 I asked the original user to try out that build 02:31:51 if it fixes it for them, I guess I can do another release 02:32:09 hopefully this will mean the end of mouse-related woes for a while 02:34:49 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 02:36:15 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 02:37:01 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 02:38:33 -!- FunkyBomb has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:45:57 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 02:50:40 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:50:56 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:54:30 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-522-g0b37eee 02:57:22 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:57:24 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:57:45 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 02:57:50 !messages 02:57:50 No messages for SteelNeuron. 03:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:07:39 -!- Yimer has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:19:17 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:23:11 Experimental (councilgod-PR) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-521-ga778aa9 03:25:25 -!- mong has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:36:20 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-522-g0b37eee (34) 03:52:38 -!- Basil is now known as Guest24754 03:54:39 -!- Guest55308 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:55:10 -!- adibis has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:30 -!- acalycine has quit [Quit: bye] 04:04:18 -!- acalycine has quit [Client Quit] 04:04:41 -!- epsik has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:05:07 -!- acalycine has quit [Client Quit] 04:05:36 -!- Dracunos has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:08:17 -!- Dracunos has joined ##crawl-dev 04:08:23 @??acid blob 04:08:23 acid blob (11J) | Spd: 12 | HD: 18 | HP: 75-117 | AC/EV: 1/3 | Dam: 4208(acid:7d3) | 04eats doors, see invisible, unbreathing | Res: 06magic(160), 03poison, 08acid+++, 08blind, 12drown | XP: 2411 | Sp: spit acid (3d7) [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: small | Int: brainless. 04:09:00 -!- acalycine has quit [Client Quit] 04:09:49 -!- acalycine has quit [Client Quit] 04:10:03 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 04:10:37 -!- acalycine has quit [Client Quit] 04:23:05 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-523-g3c62bf1: -- Gameplay Niche -- 10(in the future, 89 files, 1138+ 53-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3c62bf122ee2 04:24:23 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 04:25:27 -!- kuzimoto has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:33:41 -!- jonadab has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:41:22 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:46:40 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 04:47:28 gammafunk: I rebased so all of IJC is on a single commit again, with a proper updated description 04:48:21 I also think I addressed all of MarvinPA's review comments, but let me know if I missed something. Will keep an eye out on the experimental for bugs, although I haven't seen any in a while 04:48:52 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-523-g46bdd2e: Implement Ieoh Jian Council 10(in the future, 89 files, 1138+ 53-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/46bdd2e5316d 04:52:27 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:54:05 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:55:56 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:56:20 SteelNeuron: great, thanks 04:56:31 nice commit title (that you fixed), as well 04:56:39 -- Gameplay Nice -- 04:56:43 *Niche 04:56:56 Yeah I missed the opening line ;) 04:59:01 -!- Ratatosk has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:51 !tell Gammafunk I tried the mac build and have no lag with the trackpad 05:00:52 Ratatosk: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 05:09:49 good to hear, thanks 05:09:50 gammafunk: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 05:19:49 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-523-g5f69020: Implement Ieoh Jian Council 10(4 minutes ago, 89 files, 1138+ 53-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5f69020b47c9 05:49:50 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:50:46 New branch created: pull/434 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/434 05:50:46 03Gordon Quad02 {Anonymous} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/434 * 0.20-a0-523-g3802a75: colemak keyboard binding fixed 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3802a7501212 05:58:18 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:02:48 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:04:49 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:10:30 -!- zxc has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:11:01 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:12:28 -!- jeefus has joined ##crawl-dev 06:13:10 -!- laj1 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quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:56:29 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:58:29 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:03:09 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:04:22 -!- twelwe has joined ##crawl-dev 12:08:55 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:22:32 -!- seunuplo has quit [Client Quit] 12:22:40 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:24:31 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-522-g0b37eee (34) 12:27:05 -!- voker57_ is now known as Voker57 12:27:10 -!- Voker57 has quit [Changing host] 12:29:00 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 12:34:34 -!- adibis has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:36:47 -!- Ratatosk has quit [Quit: Ratatosk] 12:38:19 -!- AreBrandon has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:41:01 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:42:02 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:45:23 -!- lobf has 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Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:29:06 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 16:30:50 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:32:43 ??lrd[2 16:32:44 lrd[2/5]: LRD also works on enemies with varying effectiveness. Regular enemies are untargetable, but statues, most golems, and anything petrified or made of metal, rock, or ice will be damaged and spray fragments of varying range/damage. Pre-0.14, skeletal enemies had a good, power-based chance to instantly die (including bone dragons!) 16:37:23 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:41:57 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:17 -!- Mandevil has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:09 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:50:32 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:52:08 -!- Kranix has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:26 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:59:00 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:39 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 17:02:34 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:04:02 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:04:25 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 17:06:27 New branch created: pull/435 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/435 17:06:27 03advil02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/435 * 0.20-a0-514-ge06a07b: Fix for pain bond and aux attacks (10472) 10(24 minutes ago, 3 files, 17+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e06a07b9ea92 17:06:56 -!- advil has joined ##crawl-dev 17:13:18 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:15:49 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:21:45 -!- DubDrop is now known as filthy 17:23:45 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:25:17 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:25:52 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 17:26:40 -!- Zargon has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:27:50 -!- Kasofa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:29:25 http://i.imgur.com/SEq7u5W.png 17:29:27 whistles innocently 17:29:54 ! 17:35:19 non-canon 17:35:40 like you have to have them wield 4 scimitars 17:35:49 just like in those stop-motion monster movies 17:36:51 i was going to rig the first one to always be two-handed 17:37:02 but extended the attack list to make that happen does sound a lot better 17:37:05 extending* 17:37:13 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 17:37:45 -!- dextar has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:43:00 -!- Jetnerd has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:44:46 -!- harambe has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:46:10 -!- Alarkh has joined ##crawl-dev 17:48:20 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 51.0/20170118123726]] 17:49:50 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:50:55 -!- eb_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:54:10 -!- Alarkh has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:02 -!- adibis has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:21 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 18:04:18 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:06:20 -!- omnia has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:08:00 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 18:09:35 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 18:10:22 -!- Ge0ff has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:12:32 -!- jefus- has joined ##crawl-dev 18:14:18 -!- nattefrost has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:22 -!- jeefus has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:24:36 -!- Kranix has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:25:54 -!- adelrune has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:23 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:49:09 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 18:49:48 random idea inspired by a forum thread: (1) nerf Trog by making all powers draw on Inv, (2) make Trog suppress magic (MP = 0) 18:51:29 -!- scummos__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:51 I am not sure which of these hit Trog harder :) 18:55:53 -!- MIC132 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:55:53 -!- MIC132 has quit [Client Quit] 18:58:16 first one, obviously 18:58:18 second one doesn't do much 19:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:30 I felt it's necessary for flavour. 19:00:47 uh 19:00:48 and it matters a bit when you cannot use Inv rings etc. 19:00:52 has trog been lacking flavour for the last 20 years? 19:01:22 Pleasingfungus: as far as I understand, the reason why Trog doesn't use Invocation is this: training Inv increases MP, which Trog cannot want. 19:01:45 so if I change that, I feel compelled to make sure that the extra MP does not do anything. 19:01:46 that doesn't seem like the only possible explanation. 19:01:51 it feels like a very silly explanation, in fact! 19:02:07 * dpeg is very silly then 19:03:23 rip spirit shield 19:03:43 kogasa: yes, it does a bit, but I think Trog could take it 19:04:02 he could 19:04:31 Pleasingfungus: I can phrase my (2) more positively: strengthen Trog's flavour by setting MP=0. 19:08:37 -!- hellmonk has joined ##crawl-dev 19:09:45 DCSS confirmed the league of legends of roguelikes 19:10:59 What does this mean? Who else? 19:14:35 -!- iceiceice has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:16:16 https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/5q5ikf/are_there_other_forks/ 19:16:42 how dare u rebalance overpowered things 19:17:22 it's not likely that anything will happen, was just mentioning an idea 19:17:48 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:19:18 I dunno that Trog going from hating spells specifically to hating MP is a great idea 19:20:12 gammafunk: I'm not saying it is, just putting forward a potential nerf. 19:21:09 dpeg: well you just said you wanted to strengthen Trog's flavor 19:21:09 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:21:15 so which are we doing? 19:21:22 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 19:23:02 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 19:23:16 gammafunk: well, I think Trog should be nerfed. This could be done in the numbers (like piety gain, or piety costs). But the forum thread brought up Invocations, which is perhaps more interesting (especially because Troggites have fewer skills to spend xp on, so opening one up seems good). Now I belong to the camp that thinks "more MP under Trog is awkward", so something should be done here. Yes, that's 19:23:16 requiring Trog to train invo is a thing that would definitely have an impact on Trog's power level 19:23:22 ultimately just boils down to "MP = MAGIC Points ... 19:23:25 ... = bad for Trog". I'm a simpleton. The MP=0 proposal does have some gameplay implications which I am happy about, however. 19:23:57 yeah, I'm not sure that there's any problem with Trog hating spellcasting but not caring about use of magic points 19:24:39 gammafunk: there isn't. But I could come up with a line for Trog's ^ screen which explains why Trog disables MP. In this sense it is flavourful to me. 19:25:00 The real question should be whether we think MP=0 improves or degrades Trog gameplay. 19:25:14 agreed 19:26:04 what does it affect besides: +Inv, spirit? 19:26:04 off the top of my head, it seems to me like an unnecessary complication, and one that kind of tramples on the subtler anti-mp conduct trog already has (highly-weighted antimagic gifts) 19:26:07 but i'm not solid on that 19:26:22 +fly still exists, i think 19:26:41 yes, but less important than the other two, imo 19:28:18 there's +blink still right 19:28:26 ah, that is important 19:28:42 though I agree w/ pf that it's a marginal and mostly unimportant change 19:28:44 I would find it strange if we made Trog use Invocations and allowing the standard MP increase of that. OTOH, I'd support a Trog nerf even more, so if that's your choice (i.e. (1) without (2)), then I wouldn't object. 19:30:10 so uh 19:30:12 dpeg 19:30:17 you know that trog doesn't ban evocations training, right? 19:30:27 tbh I'm not sure why evo gives mp 19:31:01 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:31:02 it's not like the two whole mp you use to evoke the couple of equipment properties is a big drain that the skill has to counteract 19:31:21 and all of the other evo items don't use mp at all unless you get a badmut 19:31:24 obviously 19:31:26 it's for wand mp 19:31:33 I like Trog using Invo. I suggested it a few years back, 19:32:00 At the time, people felt that the way piety functions as both a success rate and quality level for Bros was neat 19:32:13 Pleasingfungus: yes, I know. The talk I am referring to is really old (cannot remember if it was Haran, Erik or Darshan) but it made a lot of sense to me: if Trog uses Invo, then we *force* players to raise MP. 19:32:28 we already strongly encourage them to do so, though 19:32:45 Evoc was not back then what it is now, but I see what you mean 19:33:24 hellmonk: making Evoc not give MP sounds like a good change to me 19:34:05 I'm fine w/ it 19:34:17 Lasty: it is neat, imo, but Trog is also really, really strong :) 19:36:48 yeah, agreed, which is why I'm fine with requiring Invo to use his owerful abilities 19:36:57 i have no problem with removing mp from evo 19:37:12 it made slightly more sense when lantern of shadows existed 19:38:30 Pleasingfungus: ah, good point 19:38:44 one could also argue with CBoE but I don't 19:39:05 i don't know what the cboe argument would be 19:40:16 it's an evoker giving MP? 19:40:54 here's an argument 19:40:57 cloak of invisibility 19:42:40 kogasa: that's not much of an argument, imo 19:43:09 i agree. just throwing it out there as an evocable that uses mp 19:43:20 it was mentioned a few minutes ago 19:43:25 ty tho 19:43:34 oh, sorry, must've missed that 19:43:35 dpeg: so? it would only matter if there was some use for that mp 19:43:50 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 19:44:02 yeah that is one thing about bia, I guess 19:44:05 hrm 19:44:09 well, it seems fine maybe 19:44:17 I mean quality based on invo, but it still has a pretty high piety cost 19:44:22 Pleasingfungus: this is a very puristic point, about internal consistency: CBoE restores MP, so it "makes sense" for Evoc to give MP. Let's leave it at that. 19:44:45 gammafunk: yes, piety cost should not go down, imp 19:44:49 erm, imo 19:47:17 bia is one of the stronger god abilities, so it's nice that its effectiveness is also limited by current piety, but that's something that could be achieved other ways probably 19:48:37 -!- epsilonhalbe has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:50:23 the particularly nice thing there is that it falls off naturally as you spam it (which i think is what lasty was referring to earlier) 19:51:34 yeah, it's nice how drastically it falls in effectiveness 19:51:41 considering how strong the summons are 19:52:35 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 19:53:33 we can use piety+Inv for power 19:55:44 -!- Fixer has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:56:30 you don't have the same elegance 19:56:40 much easier to control scaling with one parameter 19:56:55 MarvinPA: any opinion about removing mp from evo? 19:57:25 that one seemed more straightforward 19:58:26 what's left evocations-wise that uses MP? +Inv +Fly? 19:58:39 I want to say some of the unrands might, not that those matter too much 19:58:43 blink, unrands 19:58:47 right 19:59:03 mp wands mutation, ish 19:59:09 ah 19:59:35 sort of weird for that to exist without evo providing mp 20:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:06 it's kind of a bit less interesting as a mutation without the big wands anyhow 20:00:06 but i'm not a fan of that mut concept generally also 20:02:01 i don't really mind evo giving mp, in that having both invo+evo do it seems nicely symmetrical or something (invo alone doing it feels like it stands out a bit more weirdly maybe?) 20:02:11 but not opposed to removing it either 20:03:39 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:04:23 i personally like mp wands 20:04:34 -!- dondy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:05:00 i think it's much less bad a design with hw/haste/tele gone, at least 20:05:13 howso? 20:05:16 since at least it actually does the thing it claims to do now 20:05:24 oh, the power boost thing 20:05:27 i forgot that part existed 20:05:28 yeah, that's true 20:05:40 i'd be fine without the power boost part.... though i suppose that's tangential 20:06:10 the mutation is alright even if Invo gives no MP 20:07:32 hrm 20:07:41 DDBe would sure have some problems if evo didn't raise MP 20:08:25 i am terrified of nerfing notoriously underpowered class/race combo, DDBe. 20:08:27 ddbe the new ddak 20:08:41 ignoring DD, I suppose it is odd that Evo raises MP yes evocables use it so little in general 20:08:58 well DDBe would indeed be pretty awful to play if you couldn't increase your mmp 20:09:26 heh....i got evo to 27 and still ran out of mmp eventually 20:09:28 gotta switch from trog early! 20:09:37 granted, that calculus changes if trog ever gives you a vamp weapon 20:09:40 but he never did for me 20:09:46 gammafunk: just spam hand 20:09:47 I don't think DDBe should hold up the change. Just one combo. 20:10:02 i'm not using that as a counter-argument 20:10:02 let trog hold you in her gentle, comforting grasp... 20:10:03 yes you can spam hand but then you'll not have a lot of piety 20:10:07 ok 20:10:09 Pleasingfungus: i also ran out of piety =p 20:10:11 i have no problem with that 20:10:46 I like this idea that somehow DDBe already *weren't* spamming trog's hand 20:11:11 does seem weird to not let trog worshippers have a way to raise mp generally 20:11:13 anywho it could probably work, but I guess I also don't feel strongly about the benefits 20:11:15 I have another suggestion re: deep dwarf but you're probably not gonna like it 20:11:22 hahaha 20:11:23 so maybe it should go along with... 20:11:43 right 20:11:46 make trog train invocations 20:11:56 s/train/use/ 20:12:28 we do that, literally everyone will be happy 20:12:36 trog will also gift you pizzas in thew brave new world 20:12:43 i'm sold! 20:12:43 s/thew/this/ 20:13:04 I still don't understand why you didn't remove all non-pizza food instead of removing pizza 20:13:41 we're not a meme fork; it's your job to be a meme fork 20:13:45 hah 20:13:45 our job is to be vanilla. 20:14:09 gonna bring back pizza as an xp-gated evoker w/ a chance to turn monsters neutral 20:14:14 and then remove ely 20:14:19 someone said... vanilla... 20:14:22 fr: ice cream 20:14:31 sprinkles pls 20:14:40 you eat the ice cream. you feel a terrible chill. 20:14:47 !!!! 20:14:59 now that's cool... 20:16:32 oh ho ho 20:16:50 That's *just* what an elf would say 20:17:19 antaeus' giant shaved ice 20:17:50 i swear the quality of CYC posts has gone way downhill lately 20:18:55 coincidentally, half the posts originate from like the same 3 people too 20:29:02 ya 20:30:01 NOTE TO REDDIT PEOPLE READING THE LOGS: I love and cherish all posters, even the really bad ones in CYC. 20:30:12 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:30:26 haha 20:31:43 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:31:47 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 20:35:45 the only good poster is a bread poster 20:36:26 do we have any of those 20:36:58 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 20:37:28 * dpeg is a Vollkornbrotposter. 20:40:34 -!- asdu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:46:24 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 20:48:14 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:54:20 -!- Kasofa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:44 -!- omnia has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:08:40 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:12:09 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:16:33 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:21:02 -!- AreBrandon has joined ##crawl-dev 21:27:59 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:31:55 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 21:32:14 -!- Boatshow has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:41:14 !tell steelneuron i don't know how to make a PR for a PR, so here's some patches: http://sprunge.us/IMXX 21:41:14 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let steelneuron know. 21:41:18 fown is four-armed 21:41:22 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 21:41:32 s/fown/FoWn/ 21:41:44 !tell steelneuron 3rd patch is mostly lots of coding style/convention stuff (util/checkwhite and util/unbrace are good for these, also long lines should usually be wrapped at 80 chars) 21:41:45 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let steelneuron know. 21:42:04 !tell steelneuron the feat_can_wall_jump_against change is worth noting, it's generally bad to blindly check against enum ranges, stuff can easily go wrong there 21:42:05 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let steelneuron know. 21:43:34 !tell steelneuron also the enum change for the altar is important - you had it only in the TAG_MAJOR_VERSION == 34 block (ie current save compat version), but not in the TAG_MAJOR_VERSION > 34 block (which re-orders enums into a nice neat order whenever save compat is next broken) 21:43:34 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let steelneuron know. 21:44:28 !tell steelneuron also also, there was no need for a minor tag (nothing was being done with it), but if there had been it would need to be at the end of the list of minor tags otherwise lots of things would probably break (i think automerges can often end up putting things like that in the wrong place) 21:44:28 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let steelneuron know. 21:44:41 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 21:48:09 -!- Insomniak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:48:25 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:51:27 btw, if anything comes out of this: the Trog & Invoc idea was mentioned by poster ManiacJoe on the forum 21:53:00 -!- Guest74879 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:53:50 MarvinPA: I guess you could make a new PR versus SteelNeuron's original branch 21:54:13 but that does require the patch to be in a repo somewhere 21:54:19 i sort of realised afterwards that it's probably fairly easy yeah, so s/don't know how to/am too lazy to/ :P 21:55:07 !tell steelneuron if you drop your divine weapon on the floor, go to another floor and wait, then go back, you get a free permanent divine weapon, oops. probably they should just be immediately equipped on use? (w/ prompt if your current weapon needs a warning, abort if it can't be unwielded) 21:55:08 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let steelneuron know. 21:55:20 well your method will protect you from any unwanted millisnarks, since he'll probably make the changes himself 21:55:31 -!- gressup has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:55:40 !tell steelneuron (and prevent unequipping/dropping them) 21:55:40 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let steelneuron know. 21:56:29 i think just applying with git am or whatever keeps the author info, but feasibly the whole thing will end up with another rebase in the future anyway :P 21:58:27 I was going to suggest to him maybe to try splitting his commit into a couple that implement the various god abilities instead of having to just have one 21:58:32 but I'm not sure that would make his life easier 22:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:11 if anyone cares, I'm going to do a 0.19.4 in a couple days due to that second OS X trackpad fix 22:00:48 dependent on hearing from aegolden that he can do another build 22:00:56 -!- Yewbacca has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.7] 22:02:19 but if anyone does make any bugfixes that apply to 0.19, feel free to cherry pick them into the branch 22:02:45 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-523-g0e2e7d9: Fix a godpassive description 10(58 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0e2e7d98eb23 22:02:45 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-524-gb68a50d: Fix descriptions of some unrands 10(58 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b68a50dccd51 22:03:41 -!- Basil is now known as Guest96681 22:03:45 that second one could qualify i guess! (the first one doesn't actually change anything visible) 22:04:34 yes, and I can just do it myself, since the list will be short 22:06:31 -!- exant_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:08:16 -!- dingus has quit [Client Quit] 22:11:54 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 22:15:12 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:16:45 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:20:45 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:22:57 -!- Quilel has quit [Client Quit] 22:23:17 -!- zhiyi has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:40 -!- zhiyi has joined ##crawl-dev 22:24:03 -!- advil has quit [Quit: I'm outta here] 22:25:16 -!- Lasty has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:33:21 -!- Tickenest has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:36:17 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 22:43:17 <|amethyst> MarvinPA_: you caught what I assume was a vi command, but you missed the grammatical error 22:44:24 <|amethyst> MarvinPA_: I'm fixing that with a few more things 22:48:05 -!- epsik has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:50:46 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:57:04 -!- adibis has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:57:21 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:58:25 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:59:02 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 23:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:02 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:08:27 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 23:09:26 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-524-gb68a50d (34) 23:10:16 -!- zhiyi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:10:25 -!- zhiyi has joined ##crawl-dev 23:15:19 -!- AreBrandon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:17:45 -!- destroythecore has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:20:41 -!- diazepan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:22:46 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:32:06 what is the anatomy of an entropy weaver 23:32:22 namely: what slots would they have if they were playable 23:32:46 they're formicids, according to a recent commit 23:32:51 that was reverted 23:32:53 <|amethyst> I thought that was reve 23:32:57 |amethyst: :P 23:33:01 their description mentions talons 23:33:02 <|amethyst> "A gaunt humanoid with flaking, pale chitin. Its spindly limbs are capable of 23:33:04 oh right 23:33:05 <|amethyst> startlingly quick movement and end in razor-sharp talons." 23:33:10 they're formicids,without stasis and with speed 23:33:10 <|amethyst> so probably no gloves or boots 23:33:14 :v 23:33:36 <|amethyst> it does have MONUSE_WEAPONS_ARMOUR 23:33:37 i think it can already equip body armor 23:33:39 since yeah 23:33:56 yes 23:34:05 pity the player who fights a formicid with a shortblade of draining 23:34:12 *entropy weaver 23:34:18 no antenna on the sprite so i assume helmets are fair game 23:34:27 and cloaks 23:34:53 <|amethyst> hm 23:35:08 <|amethyst> does have M_SEE_INVIS but I guess that could be eyesight rather than antennae 23:35:26 <|amethyst> hm 23:35:41 macros are interrupted by the level map 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10917 by suppilulemur 23:46:38 03|amethyst02 07* 0.20-a0-525-gfc596c4: Rationalise, document, and clean up god_passive messages. 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 185+ 73-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fc596c4910bf 23:47:54 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 23:48:12 wow, adding a new god just like that! 23:48:14 powerful commit 23:48:35 <|amethyst> did I screw something up? 23:49:17 joking about moloch 23:49:21 <|amethyst> oh :) 23:49:24 needs to be explained = funny joke 23:49:37 <|amethyst> I was worried I had an extra }, { somewhere or something :) 23:49:58 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:51:21 <|amethyst> Pleasingfungus: that does remind me of something, though 23:51:42 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:52:14 ominous 23:52:21 -!- DevlanMud has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:52:27 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:53:22 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:53:36 03|amethyst02 07* 0.20-a0-526-g753eaab: Ensure god_passives has the correct number of entries. 10(89 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/753eaab3069b 23:53:54 ahh 23:54:30 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:55:23 <|amethyst> Pleasingfungus: "Moloch" was going to be "Foobarlex" but I decided the former was more "professional" 23:55:28 heh 23:55:55 should've used our existing no-god god name 23:55:56 Marduk 23:56:27 <|amethyst> oh, I forgot about that one 23:56:39 "Raised the Dark Lord Moloch from the bowels of the wretched godability.cc" <- looks good on your resume 23:57:29 <|amethyst> "Marduk" can actually appear in a real game 23:57:49 <|amethyst> PF is disqualified from this trivia question 23:58:18 <|amethyst> (a real game that does not involve transferring from a removed god) 23:58:55 <|amethyst> (yes, I realise there wasn't actually a question there...) 23:58:57 did you forget to ask "how"? 23:58:59 haha 23:59:03 "how can", i guess 23:59:13 er, no, i was right the first time. 23:59:38 <|amethyst> ". How can this happen?" 23:59:53 ok. we did it. now, is gammafunk gonna bite?