00:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:37 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-517-g5f97612 (34) 00:00:58 -!- chan20 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:01:03 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:02:29 Stable (0.19) branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.19.3-1-g3169bf9 00:06:56 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:17:14 -!- eb_ has quit [] 00:24:49 -!- hellmonk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:28:48 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:33:04 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:33:45 -!- jjblue has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:37:29 -!- exant has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:42:32 -!- Ofeo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:49:05 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:51:14 -!- anthems has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:58:02 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:46 -!- chan20 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:03:39 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:14 -!- glaas has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:10:21 Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.19.3-1-g3169bf9 (34) 01:11:58 -!- Danei[notDanei] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:12:30 -!- doy has quit [Excess Flood] 01:12:43 -!- doy has joined ##crawl-dev 01:18:15 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 01:30:46 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:34:25 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:34:36 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:36:53 -!- Ratatosk has joined ##crawl-dev 01:39:31 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 01:50:29 Gammafunk fyi I don’t experience mouse lag on Mac OS X 10.11.6 in .19.3 downloaded from the site 01:50:37 hrm 01:50:40 that's really weird 01:50:49 maybe an issue with 10.9? 01:51:21 at least as far as I understand it would happen when I hover over items in the inventory screen or dungeon tiles right? 01:51:35 amalloy said he'd mail me a video 01:51:47 although I don't think he did 01:51:48 I think the first reporter on IRC said they used 10.11 but I’m not certain 01:52:03 well the first report I saw was on reddit 01:52:10 and then amalloy confirmed in his OS 01:52:16 then someone said it's not an issue for them 01:52:28 on ..10.10.5 01:52:39 so I'm wondering what OS X amalloy_ has 01:52:46 and also I should check the reddit post 01:53:08 ah, 10.9.5 01:53:25 so it's possbly an OS version issue, mabye before 10.10? 01:53:31 depends on what version amalloy has 01:53:39 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:54:13 -!- matp has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:54:31 ‘ gammafunk: mouse tracking is extremely slow in 0.19.3 on OS X 10.11.6’ 01:55:13 -!- dextur has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:55:16 ah, dang 01:55:18 welp 01:56:06 hrm, I'll have to go look at the event skipping 01:56:19 in terms of what's changed, not sure what would make things slow 01:56:31 before it was processing most of those events and doing a skip for the redraw 01:56:50 now it's skipping more of the processing and also skipping the redraw 01:56:56 so I'm not sure how this would lead to mouse lag 01:57:13 I willl not be able to help wiht technicallities sadly 01:57:45 yeah, you have the same exact version of amalloy_ 01:57:49 and you don't have lag, he does 01:58:19 and it seems to not be an issue at all on linux/windows 01:58:24 let me see if I can record a bit and then you can compare 02:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:36 -!- Zeor1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:03:01 ehm I have a dropbox link to a short recording but don’t want to paste it where it is logged 02:14:22 -!- zhiyi has quit [Client Quit] 02:14:45 -!- zhiyi has joined ##crawl-dev 02:16:02 Ratatosk: well you can PM the link to me 02:16:26 but I think you can make a public url for those that's secure 02:16:33 and/or remove the file 02:16:35 either way 02:16:40 true 02:16:43 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17859957/mouselag_dcss19_3_X10_11_6.mov 02:16:58 let me know when you have it Iää remove it 02:17:02 got it, thanks 02:17:30 yeah, that looks just fine to me 02:17:51 the cursor updates properly when the mouse arrives on a new tile 02:17:55 I just tried a new game to be thourogh but that was the same 02:18:00 doesn't look laggy at all 02:18:32 I have the vanilla init.txt in case that might cause problems 02:18:41 yeah 02:23:04 should someone warn dpeg that GDD is shitting on Beogh again? 02:23:20 Or does this happen often enough that it no longer matters? 02:31:05 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:32:41 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:33:51 beogh is a frequent target of complaints, mostly about gameplay, but that by itself doesn't say much 02:34:59 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:40:20 -!- circsquare has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:07:35 -!- Furril has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:12:49 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-517-g5f97612 (34) 03:13:18 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 03:13:35 -!- jehoesefat has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:14:01 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:16:14 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:18:47 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:20:57 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:21:48 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:24:08 -!- Dixie has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:30:40 -!- DaneitwoTWO has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:31:41 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:32:58 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 03:33:01 !messages 03:33:02 No messages for SteelNeuron. 03:40:33 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:47:38 -!- adibis has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:55:24 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:57:33 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:17 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 04:18:01 -!- yeeve has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:24:49 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:29:12 -!- matp has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:31:35 -!- Brannock has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:32:03 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 04:41:46 -!- chan20_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:55:43 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:30:39 -!- Fixer has joined ##crawl-dev 05:31:37 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:32:15 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:41:50 -!- darkschneider has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:42:11 -!- darkschneider has joined ##crawl-dev 05:54:31 -!- Guest91071 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:56:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:10:18 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:12:27 -!- jeefus has joined ##crawl-dev 06:15:46 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:16:00 -!- Ge0ff has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:16:22 -!- jefus- has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:44:58 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:58:47 -!- Ge0ff has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:00:00 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:02:58 -!- Taraiph has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:15:14 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:25:16 -!- matp has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:43:04 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:48:48 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:51:00 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-521-ga778aa9: Fix excessive blood splatter on Lunge 10(in the future, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a778aa92e657 07:51:00 03hong02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/432 * 0.20-a0-529-gf3180cd: Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/crawl/crawl 10(2 hours ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f3180cd8eaac 07:51:00 03hong02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/432 * 0.20-a0-530-g7fb3693: prepare for translation ( describe.cc ) 10(10 minutes ago, 2 files, 1353+ 362-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7fb3693fa36a 07:51:00 03hong02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/432 * 0.20-a0-531-g2a8ed70: fix waring startup.cc 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2a8ed706c09b 08:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:01:19 03hong02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/432 * 0.20-a0-532-g4576031: fix startup.cc 2 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4576031f9afe 08:01:19 03hong02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/432 * 0.20-a0-533-g72a2bb6: fix startupcc waring complete 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/72a2bb667b75 08:24:02 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:37:36 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 08:37:50 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:42:48 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:54:22 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:57:22 -!- advil has joined ##crawl-dev 08:57:26 -!- zhiyi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:57:46 -!- zhiyi has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:32 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:06:34 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:12:22 !tell gammafunk I read the continued reports about mouse lag (where os x version doesn't seem to be a factor) and realized that I'd only tested on my usb mouse. Here's an amended report: I *do* get substantial mouse lag on 10.10.5 when using a trackpad (it's a 2015 macbook air). But it's fine with an external (non-apple as it happens) mouse over usb. 09:12:23 advil: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 09:13:24 !tell gammafunk that's for both 0.19.3 and current trunk. Sorry for missing that initially. 09:13:25 advil: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 09:17:42 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:23:25 !tell Gammafunk I can second the mouse lag with the trackpad. No lag with mouse. Buffered cursor movement lag quitting the application aswell. 09:23:26 Ratatosk: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 09:27:05 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 09:27:16 yeah it was your report that made me double check Ratatosk 09:27:26 at least now we're consistent! 09:27:38 yeah this will help track it down 09:39:53 -!- Boatshow has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:41:49 -!- darkschneider has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:42:09 -!- darkschneider has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:29 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:47:28 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 09:53:08 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:57:56 !tell gammafunk I had some time to kill so I tested this a bit more by using SDL_PeepEvents to see what the queue looks like around windowmanager-sld.cc:648. Sure enough with my trackpad there's a *ton* of unhandled remaining mouse events building up (800 after a bit of mouse movement), but not with my usb mouse. I think SDL_WaitEvent imposes a 10ms floor delay. So on a mac I think you have to assume that the event lo 09:57:56 op can get *many* mouse movement events at once. 09:57:56 Maximum message length is 340 characters, but you had 408. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 09:58:37 !tell gammafunk So on a mac I think you have to assume that the event loop can get *many* mouse movements at once. I wasn't sure what the immediate fix was if you want to process all the mouse movements (or if that was needed). 09:58:37 advil: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 09:59:13 !tell gammafunk let me know if I can help with this more 09:59:14 advil: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 09:59:28 does tell fail altogether if you exceed the limit? 10:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:01:12 !tell gammafunk sorry I think I slightly mangled that message but it's in the log 10:01:13 advil: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 10:09:05 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:22 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:36:06 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:36:41 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:37:43 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:01 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 10:47:56 Charly (L9 DrAE) ASSERT(a) in 'item-prop.cc' at line 1016 failed. (No actor in stationary net at (52,34)) (Bailey) 11:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:35 Who came up with Desolation? 11:02:42 It's such a beautiful portal 11:02:47 A bit on the difficult side but I really like it 11:10:55 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:14:42 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:14:49 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:20:01 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:27:19 -!- Kranix has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:28:29 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:34:11 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:45 -!- chan20 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:39:16 -!- keipra has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 11:40:01 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:41:05 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:42:09 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:43:43 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:46:40 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:47:59 -!- Ratatosk has quit [Quit: Ratatosk] 11:52:12 -!- dtsund has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:53:50 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507]] 11:57:57 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:58:43 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:05:13 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-517-g5f97612 (34) 12:09:01 -!- zxc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:11:24 How do I add _the +7 rapier of the Boiling Point {freeze, rC+ Str+4 Stlth-} to ??unapropos? 12:11:29 :P 12:15:27 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:25:30 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:07 ??learndb[3] 12:26:08 learndb[3/9]: "!learn add article_name article text" adds an article to the learndb. !learn insert article_name[index] text adds an entry with a specific index. 12:26:47 that's the syntax in general, i think that entry is already overloaded with a bunch of fire names for ice randarts though 12:32:02 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 12:32:08 -!- adibis has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:41:45 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 12:42:57 -!- chan20 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:43:30 Yeah it's not that cool now that I see the rest 12:43:32 thanks for the tip though! 12:43:57 -!- adelrune has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:29 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:48:46 -!- zhiyi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:49:47 -!- Ratatosk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:51:08 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:53:24 -!- casmith789_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:53:59 -!- RBrandon has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:54:07 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 13:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:01:40 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:59 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:11:07 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:12:35 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:08 -!- nattefrost has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:41 -!- snux has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:29:39 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:39:25 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 13:41:04 -!- Ratatosk has quit [Quit: Ratatosk] 13:42:58 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:44:09 -!- XVar has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:47:26 -!- mroovka has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507]] 13:51:21 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:54:10 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:13 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:04:21 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:05:42 -!- ozyx has joined ##crawl-dev 14:06:04 -!- jehoesefat has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:06:36 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:06:51 Hi all. Just out of curiosity-- what is the preferred IDE when doing DCSS development? Interested in seeing what crawl devs use. Thanks! 14:12:32 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:24:48 -!- ozyx has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:27:15 -!- ozyx has joined ##crawl-dev 14:33:36 since I've mainly done vaults I prefer vim 14:36:19 -!- AreBrandon has joined ##crawl-dev 14:44:52 -!- DubDrop is now known as filthy 14:47:55 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-518-g060976d: Rework Elyvilon wrath 10(11 days ago, 6 files, 33+ 93-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/060976d62cde 14:47:55 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-519-g05004e4: Improve good god wrath descriptions 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/05004e495143 14:47:55 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-520-g2823eb8: Adjust Cheibriados wrath 10(72 minutes ago, 2 files, 22+ 33-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2823eb8b1e5e 14:47:55 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-521-gaaecda2: Adjust various god wraths 10(68 minutes ago, 2 files, 14+ 18-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/aaecda2af276 14:47:55 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-522-g0b37eee: Remove item-cursing miscast effects 10(63 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0b37eee3ef63 14:58:33 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:10 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:06:44 -!- Ratatosk has joined ##crawl-dev 15:07:53 -!- glaas has quit [Client Quit] 15:08:14 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:09:23 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-522-g0b37eee (34) 15:11:32 advil: Thanks for the extra info. We do already assume that the event loop can gat many mouse events at once, and when this happens we do pretty minimal processing of the events (skipping movement events and not doing a redraw) 15:12:16 thinking of what changed between my commit that introduced the lag (yet fixed the lesser lag issue), it's hard to think of how that would change queue processing in a significant way 15:12:22 let me do a diff with github 15:13:05 anybody else? preferred crawl dev IDE (if any)? 15:13:48 ozyx: no preferred IDE, just some tools many of us use 15:13:48 -!- Basil is now known as Guest32586 15:14:04 ctags is popular, together with vim or emacs 15:14:40 there are pre-commit git hooks in the source tree you can set up to automatically update TAGS files 15:15:02 and util/checkwhite and util/unbrace are code cleanup tools many of us run as pre-commit hooks as well 15:15:34 I think we have a doc in docs/develop with some organizing info 15:16:23 docs/develop/git for the pre-commit script 15:16:37 ok awesome I'll check that out then. Super interested in spending some time contributing over the next few months and just trying to level the learning curve. Thanks for the pointers! 15:16:42 and ctags.txt in docs/develop for ctags info 15:16:44 np 15:19:33 hrm 15:19:38 actually, looking at my code 15:20:19 I wonder if skipping the mouse pos update is a bad idea 15:22:50 I wonder if some other kind of event is coming in between the mouse movement ones 15:23:09 thank you whoever put this intentional crash function in wizmode 15:23:58 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 15:24:38 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:18 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:39:46 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 15:41:18 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 15:42:08 -!- matp has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:00 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:46:29 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:48:33 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 15:52:48 -!- ozyx has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:59:48 -!- Shard1697_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:39 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:03:49 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:11:19 -!- Ratatosk has quit [Quit: Ratatosk] 16:20:39 gammafunk not sure if this tell worked earlier: "I had some time to kill so I tested this a bit more by using SDL_PeepEvents to see what the queue looks like around windowmanager-sld.cc:648. Sure enough with my trackpad there's a *ton* of unhandled remaining mouse events building up (800 after a bit of mouse movement), but not with my usb mouse. I think SDL_WaitEvent imposes a 10ms floor delay." 16:20:50 yes, it did 16:21:02 and I responded above 16:21:02 you were in channel but maybe you didn't see 16:21:29 I was thinking that the sheer number of extra events might overwhelm even the small delay on sdl_waitevent 16:21:45 when I tested with the usb mouse there were a few extra events but on the order of 7 16:21:56 advil: what you're forgetting though is that there are no "extra events" relative to before my making this commit 16:22:02 since it worked before my change 16:22:11 the numbers of events involved haven't changed 16:22:23 the only change my commit made, which you can see here: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/555d78b692f7ac73a025799d36027e24cbc42821 16:22:26 ah ok, I didn't actually check what your commit did :-) 16:22:47 is to skip some processing 16:23:05 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:23:24 huh 16:23:46 what I think may be happening 16:23:54 is that there are mouse events that aren't motion events 16:24:02 interspersed with the motion ones 16:24:13 oh that's certainly possible, I was restricting the peek to just motion 16:24:18 and not having the mouse_pos tracking var updated is somehow leading to lag 16:24:24 can you see if there are other kinds of events happening? 16:24:33 specifically during the lag 16:24:53 sure, give me a few minutes 16:25:10 (also I could try rolling back just your patch as a sanity check) 16:25:26 yeah, comparing what you see before and after is a good idea 16:25:30 the events should still be there 16:25:35 -!- dtsund has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:38 but it's what the loop does with the events that has changed 16:26:11 Shapeshifter zombie 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10915 by Qwert225 16:26:38 I think I may have a simple fix to test, as well 16:27:22 what I could do is move back that movement handling to before the event skip 16:27:30 but leave the last mouse pos update until after 16:29:14 yeah 16:29:25 I'm going to try to make a patch 16:30:41 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:32:00 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 16:33:39 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 16:35:32 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 16:41:37 New branch created: pull/433 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/433 16:41:37 03Glenn Matthews02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/433 * 0.20-a0-518-g5bdfae7: Render useless items in dark grey in Known Items menu 10(8 minutes ago, 2 files, 6+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5bdfae7037ea 16:43:22 gammafunk: yes, there are other events (lots of them) and in particular it is SDL_FINGERMOTION 16:43:37 I wonder if this bug is _only_ with touchpads? 16:44:12 I don't have a mac mouse on hand to test unfortunately 16:47:01 -!- neunon has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 16:51:40 -!- adibis has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51:58 and yes, undoing only 555d78b69 in trunk makes the problem go away for me 16:55:16 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 16:57:24 just moving `last_loc = m_cur_loc;` to its previous location near the beginning of the while also fixes it? 16:58:04 advil: aha 16:58:16 re touchpad 16:58:29 moving last_loc there would be a mistake 16:58:34 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:58:55 since that's exactly what was causing lag in the first place (for everyone else) 16:59:40 -!- tsujin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:59:43 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 17:00:00 ah 17:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:05 -!- Kranix has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:13:21 I'm working on a patch, hopefully I can fix this 17:13:40 ok, I'm happy to test it 17:18:17 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 17:20:44 <|amethyst> hm, rather than touchpads it might be about mouse resolution? 17:25:35 in terms of processing too many events, |amethyst ? 17:26:02 before my fix it was failing to redraw a lot of times 17:26:23 <|amethyst> yeah, maybe the mac SDL can only do so much event combining? 17:26:28 <|amethyst> I dunno, just spitballing 17:28:57 gammafunk is right that the # of events seemed to be the same with his patch reversed 17:29:28 yeah, it's not new events, it's what we're doing with them 17:29:58 (it's still an absurd # of events though, I don't know what it thinks it's doing) 17:30:11 yeah I think it's a lot of event processing 17:30:20 these sound like events we might need to skip 17:30:30 so my patch right here probably won't solve the issue for you 17:30:36 but it does refactor the logic so it's a bit more sane 17:31:31 here's the patch, click raw text to get something you can apply: http://dpaste.com/03BSGTV 17:31:47 save raw text and apply with git am 17:33:58 if we do fix this looks like we need to roll out a 0.19.4 :/ 17:34:01 this and the temple fix 17:34:45 that one has some gameplay impact, and this problem makes trackpads unuseable for mac Tiles people 17:35:41 <|amethyst> temple fix? 17:36:11 %git :/[Tt]emple 17:36:12 07gammafunk02 * 0.19.3-1-g3169bf9: Fix temple entrances vault placement (Spectrina, PleasingFungus) 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3169bf9a1fb4 17:36:32 broken since 0.19 17:36:51 that appears to work gammafunk! 17:36:57 ah, it did fix it? 17:36:59 <|amethyst> gammafunk: oh huh 17:38:11 yeah as far as I can tell -- anything strange I should test? 17:38:35 (hope this doesn't break it again for everyone else :-P) 17:38:42 no, it works fine for me 17:38:50 you can get a bunch of stuff in inventory 17:38:52 like with & | 17:38:56 and pick those up 17:39:05 and try mouseovers in your inventory listing 17:39:12 the one on-screen I me 17:39:13 an 17:39:21 make sure it's not laggy or anything 17:39:31 that's a different region 17:40:24 haha I didn't previously know what | did 17:40:58 wizsanta gives you presents 17:41:45 but the mouse seems responsive in both the one and the lower right and the regular inventory with it full 17:41:50 -!- darkschneider has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:41:56 good to hear, thanks advil 17:41:56 s/mouse/trackpad 17:42:04 I'll have amalloy test it 17:42:06 no problem 17:42:09 -!- darkschneider has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:15 if you can test with a usb mouse at some point, that'd be nice too 17:42:25 I have a usb mouse plugged in and it's fine 17:42:26 -!- Dixie has quit [Quit: Dixie] 17:42:33 it's not an apple branded one 17:42:36 oh, great 17:42:42 so it's fine in both trackpad and usb mouse? 17:42:47 yeah seems so 17:42:51 cool 17:43:03 will get another OS X user to test and if it's good, I can clean up and push 17:43:15 ....then we get to rebuild the release I guess :( 17:43:18 the usb mouse was always working ok for me, that's why my initial report wasn't consistent with Ratatosk's 17:44:29 now to be clear we don't really know *why* that lag was occuring 17:45:10 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 17:45:11 but the last mouse location logic was handled in too many places; my earlier fix made it a bit worse, even, but it fixed the lag 17:45:19 yet it introduced this bug 17:45:45 so the current commit moves that last redraw logic out of the main switch/case and to the end where it's actually checked in the first place 17:45:52 instead of handling it in two different places 17:48:52 "The giant orange brain turns its gaze towards you." 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10916 by Qwert225 17:52:08 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:52:34 !tell amalloy Can you test the following patch to see if it eliminated mouse lag for you: http://dpaste.com/03BSGTV 17:52:35 gammafunk: OK, I'll let amalloy know. 17:52:53 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:05:01 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:33 monsters only get to-dam slaying boosts if they're using a weapon 18:05:36 is this intentional? 18:06:05 -!- rhovland has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:09:34 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:10:23 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:10:26 -!- exant has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:10:49 (from jewellery and artifacts, that is) 18:12:33 -!- jefus- has joined ##crawl-dev 18:15:56 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.20-a0-522-g0b37eee (34) 18:16:03 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:16:22 -!- jeefus has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:19:32 that sounds like a bug, kogasa 18:20:33 <|amethyst> from the layout of the code it looks "intentional" (it's explicitly inside the "weapon or throwing" case) 18:20:52 <|amethyst> but that just means it's a misfeature instead of a bug per se, still needs to be fixed 18:21:59 yeah, I can't think of why we'd want to prevent slaying from working for weaponless monsters 18:22:31 gammafunk: obv to punish them for losing their weapons 18:22:41 next time they'll remember to have a weapon 18:24:09 actually, I wonder 18:24:22 are there many weaponless monsters that can wear equipment? 18:24:31 @??stone giant 18:24:31 stone giant (15C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 73-102 | AC/EV: 12/2 | Dam: 45 | 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(80), 12drown | XP: 1422 | Sz: Giant | Int: human. 18:24:32 mostly in d:1-2 18:24:38 draconian monks 18:24:58 @??caustic shrike 18:24:58 caustic shrike (09b) | Spd: 20 | HD: 18 | HP: 86-126 | AC/EV: 8/18 | Dam: 3608(acid:7d3) | see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(80), 05fire, 02cold, 08blind | XP: 4621 | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 18:24:58 too bad 18:24:58 lol 18:25:02 not to mention that monster-wearable +slaying equipment is really uncommon 18:25:26 it's reasonable for an elf to pick up a ring but not a weapon in elf:3 18:27:21 Not saying we shouldn't fix it, but I'd be surprised if this has affected > 1/1000 games 18:27:22 -!- rax_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:27:47 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 18:29:46 -!- eki has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:36:40 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:10 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 18:42:01 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:42:26 Lasty is going to blame all his dead chars on this bug, just you wait! 18:52:19 -!- scummos__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:55:57 ??wand of scattershot 18:55:57 I don't have a page labeled wand_of_scattershot in my learndb. 18:59:23 gammafunk: I blame all my dead characters on PF 18:59:37 reasonable 19:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:32 gammafunk: whaddya think about the Regen spell? 19:04:06 specifically what about it? 19:05:27 how to make it something you don't cast 3-5 times after every fight once you get it to a good level 19:05:58 I like the idea of making it a permabuff whose regen rate is based on current spellpower and whose chance of affecting any given period of time is determined by spell fail chance 19:06:12 to make it less of an interface irritation 19:06:50 well, it's only an L3 spell, so there's that do deal with as well 19:07:41 regen rate based on spellpower would need to scale up to 100 rr probably, but that would be a fairly large nerf 19:08:10 sure, tho that could change 19:08:30 (spell level, I mean) 19:08:30 ??book of death 19:08:31 book of death[1/1]: Corpse Rot, Sublimation of Blood, Agony, Dispel Undead, Excruciating Wounds, Bolt of Draining 19:08:38 ??book of necromancy 19:08:38 book of necromancy[1/1]: Pain, Animate Skeleton, Vampiric Draining, Regeneration, Animate Dead, Control Undead 19:08:50 making it a permabuff sounds like not a good fix 19:08:50 ??skald 19:08:50 skald[1/5]: A background focused on using charms to support their melee. Starts with a choice of weapon, leather armour, and a {Book of Battle}. 19:08:57 It could be up to L5 and still be in Necromancy 19:08:57 ??book of battle 19:08:58 book of battle[1/1]: Infusion, Shroud of Golubria, Song of Slaying, Spectral Weapon, Regeneration 19:09:10 (in that it doesn't really fix anything) 19:09:30 yeah, if it's a permabuff it's the same reward without the UI 19:09:37 I guess it depends on how much you view that reward as a problem 19:09:41 MarvinPA: It sounds like you see the problem as being "a spell that gives regeneration"? 19:09:50 I wasn't seeing that as an issue necessarily 19:10:32 regeneration out of combat with no real cost, specifically 19:11:01 Isn't the cost in this case charms/necromancy skill? 19:11:22 i mean that would be the argument in favour of eg divinations spells 19:11:37 it doesn't really hold up i think 19:11:44 yeah, to be fair there other other regen sources in the game 19:11:49 the amulet, artes, tla 19:11:58 <|amethyst> most aren't so high as the spell 19:11:59 since the point of spells is to be tactically useful 19:12:02 MarvinPA: does that mean you're leaning towards removal? 19:12:21 it may be possible to turn it into kind of a hexy effect 19:12:23 i'd lean towards that over making it a permabuff, for sure 19:12:33 maybe there's some version of it that's combat-only though, yeah 19:12:37 cast on a monster to get high rr, but that's probably not going to quite work either 19:13:00 gammafunk: sounds like a luring issue 19:13:09 yeah, probably fiddly in bad ways 19:13:11 <|amethyst> turn it into drain life 19:13:29 could do something like that, yeah, but that's a very different spell 19:13:38 I mean, vamp draining is already a L3 spell 19:13:45 in at least one of the same books 19:13:47 and steps on yred's thing 19:14:08 make it require a corpse to absorb flesh from 19:14:19 <|amethyst> that seems like a false cost 19:14:26 <|amethyst> corpses are more or less free 19:14:45 <|amethyst> though I guess for Ne maybe not 19:15:05 well non-Ne use the spell a lot 19:15:09 and sk starts with it 19:16:08 Cigotuvi's Embrace is another spell that tries to make corpses an interesting tactical resource w/o creating summons, but it doesn't really work well 19:16:31 something that gives you hp or regen on kills would be closer to a combat-only version, maybe (but then is quite similar to the makhleb effect/pbd, although presumably it'd be much less powerful than those) 19:17:28 yeah 19:17:34 that might be the only really workable version 19:17:56 but then how to incorporate spellpower 19:18:06 I'm not convinced that a tactical regen spell is something that would be interesting or good for crawl 19:18:22 it would be a pretty frequently used spell, just like it is now 19:18:31 there's not much cost other than the XP for the schools 19:18:40 a turn spent casting 19:18:46 The main purpose of Regen right now is healing after combat, and if that's not something we want, I think we should probably remove it. Something that does meaningful levels of healing inside combat is probably broken. 19:19:13 Lasty: well what's your argument against tactical regen? 19:19:19 (Borgnjor's is close to broken and it's incredibly rare and expensive) 19:19:24 it doesn't do meaningful healing mid-combat now? 19:19:28 <|amethyst> what if it worked exactly as currently, but drained attributes too? 19:20:05 then it'd be rarely used, saved for low hp situations where you truly needed hp fast 19:20:13 well, fastish 19:20:48 depending on how low the costs are though, people could still use it frequently (and out of combat) 19:20:54 since you regain stats via xp 19:21:10 gammafunk: 1) It's very similar to casting Ozo's/Stoneskin; 2) the current regen spell regens a lot and isn't all that meaningful in combat; a spell you had to actually cast in combat or with limitations would need to heal a lot to be worth using; 3) I don't think any magic school should be able to do strong healing except maybe in the form of Borgnjor's 19:21:22 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:21:40 Vampiric Draining already exists and is a good model for a low-level self-healing tactical spell 19:21:45 i strongly disagree with the assertion that it isn't meaningful in combat 19:21:49 i mean regen is certainly useful in combat 19:21:56 casting it at the start of a fight is basically heal wounds in the future 19:21:58 Borgnjor's is already a good model for a high-level self-healing spell (or maybe too strong) 19:22:05 but that's not really relevent to its other problems either way 19:22:28 yeah I don't agree that regen isn't meaningful in combat, but out of combat is the biggest problem 19:23:18 Lasty: for (1), I wasn't talking about casting ozo's/stoneskin, I was just talking about "tactical regen" 19:23:19 I may have overstated that; it's not meaningless, but it's not a huge buff. 19:23:26 <|amethyst> you could key it off monsters being in sight, but that's scummable I guess 19:23:33 how you cast this spell doesn't have to be like how you cast ozo/stoneskin 19:23:38 <|amethyst> (not relly more than PbD) 19:24:15 yeah regen isn't a huge buff in combat, but is meaningful; I'm sort of saying that a necro spell that gives you tactical regen is a 'good enough' idea in that I don't see any specific thing against it 19:24:22 other than how to deliver it 19:25:17 I mean, it's a not-too-strong effect (good) yet is relevant (good) 19:25:37 if it could be delivered well it would be a way better design than borg's 19:26:17 just not sure if it can be; there are those other things MPA mentioned that do health on kill; pbd is exactly giving regen based on kills 19:26:25 it just stacks all crazy to be a strong effect 19:26:50 I'm not sure how you could use spellpower effectively for a regen spell that worked this way; it can't be near pbd levels of strong for sure 19:27:35 <|amethyst> the biggest problem with regen 19:27:40 <|amethyst> is that it doesn't work on Mu 19:27:42 I guess there could be a duration based on spellpower and the regen stops if either you don't kill frequently enough or the duration runs out? 19:27:47 <|amethyst> DD makes sense, but Mu? 19:27:56 doesn't it not work on Gh? 19:28:07 <|amethyst> yeah, undead in general I guess 19:28:13 I thought the idea is just "you have to be alive" 19:28:22 <|amethyst> but why? 19:28:24 I dunno, doesn't seem a major problem to me 19:28:33 |amethyst: well a bunch of necro spells have this limitation 19:28:43 why does borg's not work on undead? 19:28:53 it works on ghouls 19:28:54 <|amethyst> to punish Mu for having a high necro aptitude I guess 19:29:12 mu are covered in bandages 19:29:12 oh, I dunno then. "You have to be made of meat" 19:29:21 it's flavoured as knitting your wounds back together and mummies don't have flesh, or whatever 19:29:54 but yes seems unimportant either way, probably fine to let it work on mu if some good rework turns out to exist 19:29:54 <|amethyst> just have to make sure that positive mummy aptitudes don't translate into something actually useful 19:30:26 Mummies are like drugs: bad 19:30:29 don't do mummies 19:30:40 <|amethyst> it would be one thing if troll armour and "Regen didn't work for mummies 19:30:41 <|amethyst> but they do 19:31:00 <|amethyst> so it's IMO inconsistent and surprising 19:31:14 I'm not sure how the hypothetical tactical regen would be an improvement on Vampiric Draining. 19:31:17 <|amethyst> (okay, I don't really think that's the biggest problem) 19:31:32 <|amethyst> Lasty: saves turns 19:31:41 Lasty: it might not have a very interesting tradeoff in the end, but it would be very *charms* to be this way 19:31:43 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 19:31:59 the charms spells don't really do much for tradeoff 19:32:13 <|amethyst> *nnngh!* It *squeezes* the *charms*! 19:32:28 vamp drain forces you into melee range, but it's a spell primarily about doing damage, so that makes sense 19:33:33 Lasty: to think of it another way, charms spells entice players who do damage through others means to break into spells 19:33:49 Don't get me wrong, I like charms in theory 19:33:59 if charms spells start being about damage delivery or something, then said players don't really care to use them 19:34:11 vamp drain is pretty bad for any melee-centric player 19:34:13 <|amethyst> hm, I suppose if it turned MP into HP that wouldn't do anything for casting it out of combat 19:34:24 <|amethyst> and risks making Regen + Sublim into an engine 19:34:24 I have a few Big Idea ways of reforming charms that I like, even 19:35:06 brb, networrk outage 19:35:17 I could get behind a pbd-style regen, that's the only one I can really think of that would improve the current situation 19:35:25 <|amethyst> Lasty's network is duplicating "r" characters 19:35:30 <|amethyst> causing massive damage 19:35:41 I guess duration based on spellpower, but you have to keep killing to 'refresh' the regen as well? 19:36:02 I think to keep the power level sane you probably don't want to mess with rr 19:36:06 <|amethyst> or constant duration and spellpower affects the efficiency 19:36:28 |amethyst: yeah, but letting spellpower affect the rr delivered is tricky 19:36:36 if you scale it up to the current value, it's really weak early 19:36:39 <|amethyst> is it? 19:36:43 <|amethyst> hm 19:36:44 if you let it scale past, it becomes really strong 19:36:56 I mean maybe there's a sweep spot though 19:37:08 like up to rr 140 or something 19:37:13 or whatever multiple 19:37:33 but has to stay away from the 200s and 300s for rr I think 19:37:51 so then using the spell is something you do for like, every fight still 19:38:30 <|amethyst> if it's just keyed off killing thing, I think it's stuck with being something you cast every fight 19:38:36 <|amethyst> *things 19:38:40 <|amethyst> or at least every popcorn fight 19:38:41 yeah 19:38:52 I mean, that's a problem with a number of spells 19:38:55 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 19:38:55 <|amethyst> what if it's keyed of mhp of things you kill? 19:38:59 -!- jackhammer has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:38:59 transmutations, spectral weapon 19:38:59 <|amethyst> s/of/off/ 19:39:18 <|amethyst> for tmut at least I don't think "cast every fight" is a problem 19:39:22 <|amethyst> that seems like the point of tmut 19:39:23 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:39:31 <|amethyst> could make (some) forms not expire I guess 19:39:41 that's very debatable, just how tmut would ideally work 19:39:58 but regardless of that, I was saying that it's not any more a problem for regen than it is those spells 19:40:01 which currently exist 19:40:27 <|amethyst> well, those other spells are at least something you'd only use on some chars 19:40:30 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 19:40:31 it's the out of los stuff that I think annoys the most (many people do really dislike casting spells like this every fight, including tmuts/sw/etc) 19:40:42 <|amethyst> whereas regen you'd use on everyone given the ability to cast it 19:40:44 yeah regen is pretty broad, but so is spectral weapon 19:40:48 <|amethyst> true 19:40:58 <|amethyst> spectral weapon at least has a drawback 19:41:06 <|amethyst> twice as many cells that can take damage 19:41:31 well regen will be used less frequently on e.g. mages 19:41:40 chars that studiously avoid all damage 19:41:46 but yeah it's very broad applicability 19:41:47 <|amethyst> that's just because they have more opportunity cost for the HP 19:41:50 <|amethyst> s/HP/MP/ 19:41:57 and? 19:42:01 that's good, right? 19:42:22 <|amethyst> yeah, I suppose it is 19:42:30 <|amethyst> since those with lower opp. cost also have less MP 19:43:14 you're right it will be used by an awful lot of chars even with a rework like this 19:43:23 charms the school is kind of designed this way 19:43:34 but again going back to the similar complaint by lasty 19:43:43 charms the school entices melee-centric chars to use spells 19:43:52 <|amethyst> that's why I don't want to restore Enchantments 19:44:10 <|amethyst> because it makes charms cheaper for hexers :/ 19:45:09 <|amethyst> I think, as Lasty was alluding to (I think), if regen made tactical, it's hard to distinguish from Vamp 19:45:16 <|amethyst> or not to distinguish necessarily 19:45:22 <|amethyst> but there's not a lot of reason to have both 19:45:29 no, that's false 19:45:32 that's what I was saying 19:45:33 <|amethyst> other than regen having Charms as a school 19:45:35 vamp drain is a damage spell 19:45:46 first and forements, it's how an Ne does reliable direct damage 19:45:50 <|amethyst> hm 19:45:55 now the heal is nice and does change the calculus of when it's used 19:45:58 <|amethyst> in that respect I think it should be made more clear 19:46:08 <|amethyst> you should get a warning when you try using it at full HP 19:46:16 <|amethyst> and maybe at just almost-full 19:46:27 yeah, it's a special consideration for that damage, that's right 19:46:38 which I think is alright, but Ne use it a lot to kill things 19:46:42 was my point 19:46:47 <|amethyst> true 19:46:49 and it does require pretty good training 19:47:00 <|amethyst> my first win was DDNe, not makhleb 19:47:12 <|amethyst> so I see Vampiric Draining through a strange lens 19:47:27 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:48:00 it's a cool spell in that you can do more melee and supplement it to get back hp and do damage 19:48:08 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 19:48:20 <|amethyst> I do like VD and don't see any need to change it 19:48:35 <|amethyst> but I do think it makes the existence of Regen less important 19:48:48 <|amethyst> even if it doesn't replace it exactlyu 19:48:56 yeah I don't really see too much of a gameplay connection between the two, tbh 19:48:56 <|amethyst> since it's much less MP-for-HP efficient 19:49:02 talking about the current spell, at least 19:49:20 I mean, it's true you can use VD to heal and it's also necro 19:49:33 but it has much more stringent spellpower requirements 19:49:37 <|amethyst> maybe the problem is just that they're both in the Ne book 19:49:41 then again I may be underutilizing it some 19:49:45 <|amethyst> I woudln't be thinking of this if that weren't the case 19:49:50 yeah that is a factor as well 19:49:54 <|amethyst> but L3 necro spells that heal you 19:49:58 <|amethyst> in the same book 19:51:00 you could probably do really well with vamp drain vs various ignorable things in vaults, depths, zot 19:51:17 the damage would not be relevant 19:51:31 which is kind of bad design-wise, but the heal would be fairly good I'm sure 19:51:47 for things that can't hit through your defenses (which there are a number) 19:52:06 regen is nice in that I don't have to do this 19:52:36 plink the two-headed ogre that can't even damage me in depths, that is 19:52:49 so I guess I'm leaning towards keeping but reworking regen 19:52:50 ! 19:53:20 <|amethyst> but how to rework it? 19:53:31 well I think the pbd-style version has reasonable promise 19:54:18 <|amethyst> I suppose it would be silly to make it exclusive with Death Channel :P 19:54:38 I would lean towards just a constant rr and maybe spellpower-based duration 19:54:50 <|amethyst> ? 19:55:01 <|amethyst> how does that differ from currently? 19:55:14 but you have to kill to active it and kill frequently to maintain 19:55:27 so I guess it has a kind of double status where 19:55:30 <|amethyst> oh, so spellpower-based *max* duration 19:55:34 yes 19:55:43 Regen (grey) [it's active but you have no kill] 19:55:55 Regen (lightmagenta) [it's active and you have a kill] 19:56:09 Regen (magent) [it's active and you have a kill, but you need another kill soon] ? 19:56:14 and *magenta 19:56:28 <|amethyst> any specific reason it's different from PbD? For balance or just to make it different? 19:56:35 oh, how does PBD work? 19:56:51 <|amethyst> I think it's more regen the more kills, isn't it? 19:56:52 I recall it doing something similar to this, but PDB is stricly based on kills 19:56:55 <|amethyst> ??powered by death 19:56:55 powered by death[1/1]: Demonspawn mutation, appears as 'Regen (N)', where N is the amount of HP regenerated each turn. Each kill, whether or not the victim leaves a corpse or not, increases the regen counter depending on mutation level, decreasing over time. 19:57:05 oh yeah, that I wanted to avoid, due to the power issue 19:57:10 the stacking, that is 19:57:46 I mean, I suppose it could stack up to two or something, but 200 rr is really strong already 19:57:59 I dunno, maybe MarvinPA can shoot me down here 19:58:06 or Lasty can come in with a gammadunk 19:58:23 I don't see anything that's stricktly bad with this approach to a rework 19:58:39 ...strictly 20:00:00 <|amethyst> gamma dunk? more like gamma dunk 20:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:02 <|amethyst> amirite 20:00:06 <|amethyst> err 20:00:14 <|amethyst> s/dunk$/punk/ 20:00:17 <|amethyst> I fail 20:00:37 <|amethyst> Dunk't on his own petard 20:01:13 wow..neil bringin' the pain 20:04:48 -!- Fixer has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:05:26 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:07:00 -!- zxc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:51 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:17:16 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 20:17:48 -!- hellmonk has joined ##crawl-dev 20:18:43 i see there was a regen discussion - don't suppose anyone feels like summarizing it? 20:19:23 some guy thinks its super-op, everyone agrees that casting it 5 times after every combat is boring 20:19:41 assuming you mean the gdd thread 20:20:18 no i meant here 20:20:22 why would i care about gdd 20:20:24 like, ever 20:20:45 because that's where dank new tavern memes are born 20:20:54 before they migrate to cyc 20:21:11 that sounds like how the conversation here went, too 20:21:32 except in a lot more detail 20:22:21 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 20:22:39 mm 20:22:45 it's a weird spell. 20:26:06 that tavern poster is fucking crazy though, lol at the idea that /hw was less degenerate than regen 20:28:02 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:32:29 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:33:50 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 20:34:43 https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/5pw4h3/vehumet_spell_offers/ i wonder if there should be some special tiles icon for memorizing spells from veh 20:34:52 local tiles players don't use M... 20:35:08 https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/5pyud4/would_it_be_possible_to_make_a_fork_of_dcss_that/ also this is a really good thread 20:36:28 just loving those rotten chunk mechanics 20:36:29 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:36:32 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 20:37:42 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 20:38:13 hell, who doesn't 20:38:27 i put in *so much* work to try to get rotting chunk stacking working... and then, removed! 20:39:18 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:41:15 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:41:59 So I've got this super-fun thing going on where as of this weekend Comcast started randomly fucking with my service -- sudden loss of connectivity for a few minutes at a time, several times an hour. 20:42:12 And of course they claim it's all on my end 20:42:22 Hooray for monopolies 20:43:15 comcast is a shit 20:43:27 my connection blinks out all the time 20:43:44 though usually for just a few seconds 20:43:46 There's a local ISP that's supposed to be pretty good, but they haven't historically had coverage of anywhere I've lived. 20:43:53 I just sent another query to them tho :p 20:49:01 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:49:21 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:56:46 Pleasingfungus: I was musing over a pbd-style rework 20:57:37 my sketch of the new spell: spell power affects a max duration, without this duration, no regen occurs, but to activate the regen you must also have a kill and then make a kill every so often 20:58:52 "without this duration" is confusing, but the idea is somewhat similar to death channel 20:59:05 if you don't have death channel up, you don't get spectrals from kills 20:59:17 but you also don't get spectrals if you don't kill things 20:59:37 similar idea, but the UI is a little more complex 21:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:04 but if you're wondering about the motivation for changing the spell in the first place, most seem agreed that using regen out of combat is not fun/interesting 21:00:28 Lasty and |amethyst kind of argued that vamp drain is sufficient for "tactical heal" 21:00:30 current regen has been on my Remove list for a while 21:00:31 and that we don't need regen 21:00:38 but i don't like removing these days 21:00:48 Pleasingfungus: have you lost your taste for player tears? 21:00:49 which days would you like to remove, then? 21:00:50 *rimshot* 21:01:01 :P 21:01:10 i know that the idea of regen -> pbd came up back when 21:01:27 would have to crawl through the logs to see what issues i had with it, if any 21:01:38 I'm not in love with it 21:01:44 well I can't think of any major issues other than getting the UI right 21:02:04 but I'm not sure I really subscribe to the idea that tactical regen is fundamentally unintersting as a spell 21:02:10 which I think Lasty would argue 21:02:33 it seems like it has the classic charm problem of 'you want this on for every single fight' 21:02:40 sure 21:02:40 I don't think it is absolutely necessarily uninteresting, but I can't picture it being interesting 21:02:42 'or maybe just up all the itme, period' 21:03:02 yeah but almost every charm has that problem 21:03:04 I mean, that's a bit of the problem with charms the school 21:03:04 I'm still a fan of always-on charms 21:03:19 hellmonk: i don't want more problems! 21:03:33 rmsl has this problem (you have to recast that one a lot even still, want it up nearly all the time) 21:03:45 yeah, well that pdb thing was all I could think of 21:03:45 well, regen already has that problem and also another problem, so even if you elect to keep it with just one problem instead of two that's an improvement 21:03:52 rmsl has different problems 21:04:05 IMO the best Charms school would be one that doesn't actually get cast at all; the second best would be one where somehow they're all as interesting as Swiftness; the third best would be one where they're always-on but in a way where there's a meaningful cost to having them do much of anything 21:04:25 move rmsl to amulet slot (not ironic) 21:04:35 "actually, ...." 21:04:47 ^ joke 21:05:03 yeah, I dunno that there's a charms spell all of us actually like 21:05:09 ??charms 21:05:09 charms[1/2]: The magic school dedicated to spells which boost your character. The old Enchantments school was split into Charms and Hexes. 21:05:14 death's door 21:05:14 ??charms [2 21:05:14 list of spells by school[2/14]: Charms: infusion, repel missiles, shroud of golubria, swiftness, ozocubu's armour, regeneration, spectral weapon, excruciating wounds, deflect missiles, ring of flames, death's door 21:05:15 heck, I'm even annoyed by battlesphere 21:05:35 I like ddoor too even though I've never actually cast it 21:05:51 ddoor is kind of cool for Mu (because they can't use borgs) 21:06:02 can't they also not use ddoor 21:06:04 i think i've cast it like... twice? 21:06:09 they can I think 21:06:17 ??death's door 21:06:17 death's door[1/2]: Level 8 Necromancy/Charms spell, found in the Necronomicon. Renders the caster invulnerable, but reduces you to power/10 + kiku piety/15 health (up to 20+13). Cannot be recast until 1d3 turns after expiry. You get an end warning. Healing effects other than Revivification (which will confuse+paralyse you+end ddoor if cast but work!) do not work. Duration is ~16-25 turns. 21:06:21 The one thing I like about Ozo's is that it makes you want light armor. Of course it does that by being basically better than heavy armor. 21:06:22 ??death's door[2 21:06:22 death's door[2/2]: Caution! Does not render the user invulnerable to KILLED_BY_WINNING! 21:06:29 good bugfix 21:06:32 ??necromutation 21:06:32 necromutation[1/2]: Level 8. Induces lichform: draining-brand unarmed, +6 AC, +40 MR, rC+, necromancy enhancer, and undead for all game purposes (NO POTIONS, rN+++, rPois, mutation immunity, torment immunity, no transformations, no berserk, dispel undead vulnerability, no regen spell or ddoor or borg or bloodsub). 21:06:38 no... ddoor 21:06:43 rip 21:06:52 oh ok 21:06:55 I'd be okay w/ no charms school existing and moving all the spells to different schools until we fix/remove them 21:07:03 anyway it'd be easy to move ddoor to level 9 necro only if you were insistent on scrapping charms 21:07:05 and remove skald? 21:07:09 well I too have never really used ddoor in any capacity 21:07:24 Pleasingfungus: probably, but not necessarily. Depends on whether they'd still have an interesting book left. 21:07:46 i think that skald only works as long as they don't have more than one spellschool they need to train 21:07:52 yeah 21:07:55 their starting book needs to be single school 21:08:09 tho right now it's rarely great to train single-school 21:08:23 since you really want to lean on spectral weapon and that means training hexes to get it a bit earlier 21:08:42 well what you really want to learn on to win is shroud 21:08:46 that too 21:08:52 spectral is good later, when you've not-died 21:08:53 tho no spellpower version is fine 21:09:28 oh is battlesphere not charms at all? 21:09:31 maybe I imagined that 21:09:33 ??battlesphere 21:09:33 battlesphere[1/5]: Level 5 conjuration/charms. Conjures an orb that follows the caster around and will fire at your target whenever you cast targeted damage spells. Does modest damage, but has good mp efficiency. 21:09:39 aha 21:09:45 charms list up there is out of date 21:10:01 iirc either spells by school or spells by level is very out of date 21:10:04 i updated one a while back but not the other 21:10:25 -!- Sokar_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:10:36 I'm not super thrilled about just cutting out Sk for the sake of charms badness 21:11:23 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:15:43 yeah 21:15:44 i don't think training charms until you're a fair bit into the game is really the way to go on most Sk 21:17:24 IMO you should start to train hexes and charms at L3 to get spectral up 21:17:31 it's a huge damage boost 21:19:21 depends on the race and how quickly you can do it 21:19:32 but i usually start at like 66% weapon and 33% fighting for a bit 21:20:46 Lasty1: I think you're probably underutilizing shroud 21:21:12 shroud is p excellent early on 21:21:24 and also usually pretty castable with your starting skills 21:21:25 the spell isn't as amazing as it used to be at low spellpower 21:21:38 since SOMEONE got it nerfed 21:21:57 and shroud is a big effective EV boost so you can focus on weapon skill or something 21:22:45 I mean, none of these divergent opinions really mean you couldn't remove the charms school, I guess, but that'd be a major concern 21:23:02 I guess it could end up being good in that you'd decide between spells, I don't like dying so I train transloc for shroud 21:23:10 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:23:20 other people playing stronger species might just go more for hexes 21:23:38 but infusion is a problem 21:23:45 not a huge problem 21:23:47 that's the early extra damage, where does that go? 21:23:48 gammafunk: my understanding, possibly out of date, is that spellpower only affects duration 21:23:57 Lasty1: no, MPA reworked it 21:24:02 spellpower now effects weapon quality 21:24:03 could slot into any number of schools 21:24:09 and weapon quality is not affected by your weapon skills 21:24:09 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 21:24:25 hexes is the obvious (and overplayed) choice, but i might suggest earth 21:24:26 other than that it's mimicing your current weapon, of course 21:24:28 Wait, what are we talking about? I meant shroud. 21:24:37 oh, yeah 21:24:43 gamma is talking about spectral, i'm talking about infusion 21:24:45 weapon quality on spectral? 21:24:46 but you have to train charms or transloc to use it well 21:24:48 oh, ok 21:24:53 i was wondering how that applied to infusion 21:24:54 Pleasingfungus: yeah and Lasty was talking about shroud 21:24:58 it was perfect! 21:25:03 but who's on first 21:25:15 gammafunk: what do you mean by "to use it well"? 21:25:25 Lasty1: to be able to cast it 21:25:25 My experience is that it's really easy to cast w/o training anything 21:25:35 but then I'm usually playing something with flat-ish apts and decent int 21:25:59 it can have a pretty high fail rate; I recall it being quite bad without training 21:26:03 ??shroud of golubria 21:26:04 shroud of golubria[1/2]: L2 Charms/Tloc spell. Found in Book of Battle and Spatial Translocations. While in effect, the shroud protects you from some melee attacks, but the shroud is fragile and might fall apart. More damaging melee attacks have a higher chance of breaking the shroud. Basically equivalent to +10 hp on average. 21:26:34 yeah duration might be the only thing spellpower effects, but that duration can be really low; anyhow I don't "rush" SW 21:26:49 even non-spellcasting skills have a better priority for me 21:27:20 SW is, in my testing, approx +100% damage 21:27:31 current-day testing or post-nerf testing? 21:27:31 Really nothing else you can train has teh same impact 21:27:36 Pleasingfungus: post-nerf, IIRC 21:27:37 er 21:27:40 I could be mistaken 21:27:41 well, you get what i mean 21:27:44 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 21:28:08 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 21:28:39 with my last sk it wasn't initially close to 100% more damage 21:28:49 but yeah, anyhow, the issue is can sk work without charms 21:28:53 perhaps it can! 21:29:20 ime, if you upgrade to ring or scale mail early, you need to train some spell schools for infusion/shroud 21:29:28 but if you stay in leather it's pretty easy for most races 21:30:14 yeah, I will tend to wear some AC and move into SW later, early on it's infusion + shroud until I can get some AC 21:30:16 unless you started talking about spectral again on the "high fail rate" part 21:30:18 both approaches are valid 21:30:41 !lg . sk won 21:30:42 2. gammafunk the Bludgeoner (L27 HuSk of Xom), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2016-01-18 07:05:08, with 1558628 points after 74771 turns and 8:38:24. 21:30:52 I'm just a husk of my former self anyways, don't listen to me 21:30:55 heh 21:31:00 been a little while, it appears 21:31:20 not that mine is much more recent, probably 21:31:23 !lg . sk won 21:31:24 3. ProzacElf the Acrobat (L26 VpSk of Ashenzari), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2016-02-24 03:31:20, with 1519368 points after 87459 turns and 6:38:40. 21:31:27 that was post rework 21:31:31 aka new SW 21:31:35 yeah 21:31:48 and, no, mine was not much more recent at all 21:32:06 dankpires... 21:32:20 impressive that my game was 2 hours shorter and ~13K turns more 21:33:36 it was played on twitch and I just play pretty slow casually 21:33:58 I think 8 hours is pretty above average 21:34:10 !lg goodplayers won recentish urune=3 x=avg(dur) 21:34:16 6349 games for goodplayers (won recentish urune=3): avg(dur)=5:37:03 21:34:32 !lg goodplayers won recentish urune=3 x=avg(dur),avg(turns) 21:34:37 6349 games for goodplayers (won recentish urune=3): avg(dur)=5:37:03; avg(turn)=77617.58 21:35:06 I would guess the difference is due to resting your vp to bloodless 21:35:09 but I could be wrong 21:36:06 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:36:07 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507]] 21:37:09 Lasty1: just don't remove Sk, please. The internet won't survive. 21:37:11 i tried to keep him between full and alive most of that game 21:37:25 but IIRC, there was a lot of running back and forth between spider and lair 21:37:45 becaue i think at the time not even entropy weavers were drinkable 21:37:55 so it was basically eels or go back to lair 21:38:50 Drinkable Entropy Weavers <- new hit energy food 21:40:08 then 6 months later people find out they corrode your intestines 21:40:11 gammafunk: I have a theory that if I remove enough stuff everyone will get happy again 21:40:32 what could go wrong? 21:43:43 -!- Boatshow has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:44:42 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:58 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:13:30 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 22:15:12 this may be a silly question, but why do frogs start with 0% failure on hop, but other racial abilities have small but non-negligible failure rates? 22:15:42 i am here thinking specifically of poison spit, but it also applies to tengu flight and drac breath 22:17:34 these seem bad 22:17:36 imo 22:17:59 gammafunk: any cool new stream ideas needed? 22:18:09 what seem bad? 22:19:38 tiny failure rates on racial abilities 22:19:47 not doing: reading erotic fanfics, streaming games I'm terrible at, reading erotic dream logs 22:20:31 not sure re racial ability fail rates in general 22:21:02 the dream log isnt erotic 22:21:02 I'm not sure what it accomplisheso ther than annoyance/uncertainty 22:21:24 Brannock: I think accomplishing uncertainty is the point 22:21:36 I doubt that's desirable though 22:22:56 it's like the fail rate on sack of spiders or amulet of rage etc 22:23:48 that's boostable through Evocations 22:23:58 although innate abilities are neither good enough nor fail often enough that removing the fail rates would change much 22:24:04 Right 22:24:21 Gonna add this to my todo to look at, right after the President invades Chicago 22:24:28 Brannock: and innate ability fail rates can be reduced by gaining levels 22:25:10 I think there's a better way to convey gaining strength 22:25:13 Such as actual strength gains 22:25:26 <|amethyst> gammafunk: how are you with Star Control II 22:25:26 the purpose behind the failure rate on sack of spiders can't (or at least shouldn't) just be "encourage investment in evocations" since the summoned spiders getting better with evocations already accomplishes that 22:25:26 Rather than consistency gains on something that was already fairly reliable 22:25:38 I'm sympathetic to that argument, yeah 22:25:42 it's there to make "nothing gets summoned and you wasted a turn" a practical occurrence 22:25:44 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I think you should do a play-through of SC2 with the volume turned down and you doing all the voices 22:25:54 because that uncertainty makes the item more interesting (supposedly) 22:26:11 I'm sure the rationale behind innate ability failure rates is the same 22:26:17 not that I would miss htem 22:26:32 gammafunk: how are you at tome4, i could do a little cleanup on quicktome and you could stream it 22:27:03 gammafunk: i could supply a music pack for it too 22:28:07 holy fuck that guy in the regen thread is nuts 22:29:54 I've never played tome4 22:30:03 people scared me away from it 22:30:08 understandable 22:30:33 heh 22:30:33 to both hellmonk and tome4 22:30:34 are you any good at jazz jackrabbit 22:30:34 especially jazz 2, you could play evilmike's level packs 22:30:45 ... 22:30:53 I played a bunch of Dungeon fo the Endless last week and was almost immediately enraged by the amount of optimization exercises you can do in that game to just pointlessly consume your time in pursuit of greater efficiency 22:31:08 But I suppose that's what you get with roguelites 22:31:15 Especialy a tower defense roguelite 22:31:33 please dont bring back my memories of gemcraft 22:31:46 Brannock: poison spit is probably more important to a naga at xl 1 than at any other point in the game 22:31:56 and it doesn't fail often, but it fails often enough to notice 22:32:27 3% fail rate on a starting NaWz, it appears 22:34:12 gammafunk: I think streaming evilmike's levels would unironically be cool and cute 22:34:29 I had no idea he had made any 22:34:32 are they available online? 22:34:46 I've also never played that game; the last person to talk about it was Bloax 22:35:16 gammafunk: https://www.jazz2online.com/downloads/info.php?levelID=3685 22:35:34 -!- Basil is now known as Guest55308 22:35:41 gammafunk: oh. these level packs get pretty hard since they were made for people like me who'd been playing the game for 10 years 22:35:45 cool, that would be an excellent 'mystery game' 22:35:54 well viewers will want me to suffer 22:36:00 old-school platformers are alright 22:36:08 it's the weird things that pubby wants to play that I reject 22:36:26 I guess you did say no furry stuff 22:36:36 I can play them some before the stream so it's not a total shitshow 22:36:41 -!- Guest32586 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:40:03 is that really what your viewers want? 22:40:17 -!- feksclaus has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.7] 22:41:34 for me to suffer? sure 22:42:48 -!- zhiyi has joined ##crawl-dev 22:42:51 i meant "not a total shitshow" 22:43:53 maybe gammafunk should show off acidrobin, if it still works 22:44:10 i'm p sure it doesn't 22:44:34 at least i seem to remember someone mentioning they tried it and saying it didn't work for them 22:44:52 I could see the console changes making some of it weird 22:45:03 otoh I think you could make acid robin even cooler now 22:45:06 if you set background colors 22:45:19 like you could change it dynamically, the global background color thing 22:47:15 yeah looks like there's a bunch of file not found errors 22:47:31 for the rc settings 22:50:45 -!- epsik has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:51:46 alright, do I troll the regen thread by calling it not a top 5 spell 22:52:16 heh, that thread isn't bad enough already? 22:52:26 ??good spells 22:52:26 good spells[1/1]: apportation, blink, regeneration, repel missiles, swiftness, summon butterflies, spectral weapon, animate skeleton, passage of golubria 22:52:47 tbh I think regen is overvalued, I still pick it up all the time bc it's cheap af tho 22:53:14 and it lets me press 5 less 22:54:16 i always learn it and forget to use it half the time 22:54:23 at the very least I think blink rmsl swift butterflies and skeleton are better for ""optimal play"" 22:54:23 -!- advil has quit [Quit: I'm outta here] 22:55:14 and probably shit like cflame is also better for spell ranking if we follow tavern meme philosophy where the game ends at lair 22:55:59 well, for that matter invis trivializes 1/2 to 2/3 of the game 22:56:12 although it's not exactly an easy spell to pick up anymore 22:57:04 ??necromancr 22:57:04 I don't have a page labeled necromancr in my learndb. Did you mean: necromancer, necromancy. 22:57:09 ??necromancer 22:57:10 necromancer[1/2]: Class starting with a {Book of Necromancy}. 22:57:14 ??book of necromancy 22:57:15 book of necromancy[1/1]: Pain, Animate Skeleton, Vampiric Draining, Regeneration, Animate Dead, Control Undead 22:57:39 not even top half in the necro starting book imo 22:58:24 seems like the only thing that works with acidrobin is armour/weapons becoming < and >.... 22:58:25 rip 22:59:19 gammafunk, you should real-time speedrun a 15 rune merfolk and play covers of oceanman the entire time the run is going 23:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:35 -!- dondy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:05:47 -!- AreBrandon has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:10:20 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:14:43 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 23:15:09 -!- adibis has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:15:54 -!- exant has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:21:18 gammafunk srsly you should play my grimrock mod b/c it will prepare you for my grimrock 2 mod that is actually going to be good 23:22:39 -!- adelrune has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:29:38 -!- elmdor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:38:51 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:41:41 is anyone else in channel who can compile on OS X? 23:41:58 I needed someone else to confirm that this bug is fixed 23:42:04 I guess I should also test on windows 23:45:13 I can build, and if necessary I can make unsigned binaries. just not dealing with the signing trainwreck any more, and how long the Mac will remain around is a question 23:46:15 trunk? 23:47:35 (also, questions about my current network, which has been varying between crappy and nonexistent all evening) 23:47:51 geekosaur: this patch, let me get the url 23:48:14 geekosaur: well, I should mention, I need someone who can test trackpad usage on a mac build 23:48:22 oh, nope 23:48:28 mac is currently ssh only 23:48:52 geekosaur: could you make a tiles build I could give to people to test? 23:49:00 if not, nbd 23:49:01 yes 23:49:07 alright, let me get you that patch 23:49:48 geekosaur: http://dpaste.com/03BSGTV 23:49:48 that's relative to trunk 23:50:02 need a tiles build specifically, but no other build requirements 23:50:56 what's up ladies 23:51:11 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:51:30 -!- Doesnty has joined ##crawl-dev 23:52:20 %git 23:52:20 07MarvinPA02 * 0.20-a0-522-g0b37eee: Remove item-cursing miscast effects 10(10 hours ago, 1 file, 10+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0b37eee3ef63 23:52:36 oh, hm, I need a separate checkout for that 23:52:45 -!- kogasa has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:52:46 my normal mac build is still macports-based 23:52:51 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:55:23 (nd, right on schedule, local network just fell over again. I really am going to have to bump the cellmodem way up and switch to it exclusively, aren't I...)