00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:16 -!- Floodkiller has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:03:35 -!- dondy has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5] 00:09:04 -!- matp has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:19 -!- tksquared_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:16:00 -!- diazepan has quit [Quit: diazepan] 00:21:34 why are ogres smarter than humans 00:35:11 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:36:14 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:36:49 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:42:50 !stats ogcj 00:42:53 !stats hucj 00:42:54 Starting stats for OgCj: Str 11 Int 16 Dex 9. Stat gain: s/3 00:43:08 Starting stats for HuCj: Str 8 Int 15 Dex 13. Stat gain: sid/4 00:43:24 theory: Ogres know meme magic 00:43:36 i hate the ogrehaul so much 00:43:41 why 00:43:47 is this something about FLAVOR 00:43:47 it just makes no sense to me 00:43:50 yes 00:44:04 ok, I'm less interested in how it's not Tolkien enough 00:44:18 lol 00:44:27 Ogres are more connected to the "Ogre Mage" idea in dcss compared to other fictional sources 00:44:45 the vast majority of them are melee brute that club you though 00:44:47 in dcss 00:44:56 you don't see ogre-mages until you get deep 00:45:03 you see ogre mages in orc 00:45:06 that's not that deep 00:45:12 but anyhow why does this matter really? 00:45:24 we don't base player species stats on the profiles of the monster itself 00:45:27 in terms of where it places 00:45:28 because i am a huge stickler for flavor 00:45:34 2Tolkien 00:45:51 i haven't even read any tolkien lol 00:45:54 I think it's just a somewhat different take on the "giant strong race" idea 00:46:06 if you want dumb + hit then you can play Tr 00:46:24 or big + dumb + hit 00:46:55 like i agree that ogre-mage as an archetype for them should exist 00:46:57 Ogre are way more fun when you can do more than one thing with them (and those other things not feel painful) 00:47:03 but i do not like how it is emphasized now 00:47:06 well they're good as melee 00:47:12 I mean they still have crazy hp and crazy fighting 00:47:26 and good melee apts in two schools 00:47:27 !apt og 00:47:28 Og: Fighting: 3!, Short: -3*, Long: -3*, Axes: -3*, Maces: -1, Polearms: 0, Staves: 0, Slings: -3, Bows: -3, Xbows: -3, Throw: 0, Armour: -2, Dodge: -1, Stealth: -2, Shields: -1, UC: -1, Splcast: 1, Conj: -1, Hexes: -1, Charms: -1, Summ: -1, Nec: -1, Tloc: -1, Tmut: -1, Fire: -1, Ice: -1, Air: -1, Earth: -1, Poison: -1, Inv: 1, Evo: -2, Exp: 0, HP: 3!, MP: 0 00:47:42 polearms and staves 00:47:57 mhmmm 00:47:57 and -1 is not exactly bad given you can get the best melee weapon in the game with them 00:48:08 compare this to their magic schools 00:48:12 so when are the ogres in the dungeon getting the memo 00:48:13 so I don't see it as over-emphasized 00:48:29 they have all -1 magic apts 00:48:44 so it's actually still pushing them towards melee 00:48:55 they have +1 casting 00:49:00 and? 00:49:06 it makes them look like fat humans to me 00:49:09 they have +3 fighting 00:49:18 oh, because Hu have +1 casting? 00:49:20 everyone trains fighting 00:49:20 (they don't) 00:49:23 what? 00:49:36 everyone trains spellcasting if they're a mage... 00:49:43 this discussion is not making too much sense 00:49:52 no because we have very different opinions on things 00:50:02 my issue is internally the flavor around ogres is a mess 00:50:09 which is something that y'all do not care about 00:50:16 I pointed out that the flavor isn't in any messy state 00:50:27 they're still a race that suggests melee 00:50:35 it's a race that is good at polearms and staves, which spams giant clubs in the wild 00:50:37 but they're reasonable choice as a mage as well 00:50:52 they are very good at using giant clubs 00:50:57 those things they spam in the wild 00:50:58 those were true of old ogre 00:51:07 no it's true of these as well 00:51:12 try using giant clubs with them 00:51:16 you will find it to be very effective 00:51:40 then why are you telling the player they are bad at the weapon class 00:51:48 with a -1 apt to it 00:51:52 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 00:52:00 that doesn't tell the player that they are bad at the weapon class 00:52:11 for instance, are we telling the player that Og are bad at fire magic? 00:52:21 you suggested in fact that Ogres were *too strongly* suggested as mages 00:52:37 yes, they have int higher than humans 00:52:57 one point of it is the thing that seals the deal? 00:53:24 this settings aptitudes/stats by monster spawning details is not a thing 00:53:53 that is not true and you know it 00:54:03 it is true, and I do know it 00:54:03 in most cases monsters at least pay lip service to the race they mirror 00:54:12 merfolks use polearms in shoals 00:54:20 spriggans spawn with quick blades 00:54:23 and orcs all use axes 00:54:25 right 00:54:33 orcs often use axes 00:54:46 !apt ho 00:54:47 HO: Fighting: 2, Short: 0, Long: 1, Axes: 3!, Maces: 1, Polearms: 1, Staves: -1, Slings: -1, Bows: -1, Xbows: -1, Throw: -1, Armour: 1, Dodge: -2, Stealth: -1, Shields: 1, UC: 1!, Splcast: -3, Conj: 0, Hexes: 0, Charms: -1, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: -2, Tmut: -3, Fire: 1, Ice: -1, Air: -2, Earth: 0, Poison: -1, Inv: 3!, Evo: 0, Exp: 0, HP: 1, MP: 0 00:55:15 spriggans often use spears 00:55:17 !apt sp 00:55:17 Sp: Fighting: -2*, Short: 1, Long: -2, Axes: -2, Maces: -3*, Polearms: -3*, Staves: -3*, Slings: 2, Bows: 2, Xbows: 0, Throw: 0, Armour: -3*, Dodge: 4!, Stealth: 5!, Shields: -3*, UC: -2*, Splcast: 2, Conj: -3*, Hexes: 2, Charms: 4!, Summ: -2, Nec: -1, Tloc: 4!, Tmut: 3!, Fire: -2, Ice: -2, Air: -1, Earth: -1, Poison: 0, Inv: 0, Evo: 3!, Exp: -1, HP: -3, MP: 1 00:55:19 they generally spawn with things they have a positive aptitude for 00:55:21 more spriggans use polearms than quickblades 00:55:25 -3* polearms 00:55:26 spriggans are uniquely suited to spears 00:55:30 ...what 00:55:32 this seems like a whole bunch of nonsense generally 00:55:33 also riders are a weird special case 00:55:49 yeah this seems like we've verged solidly into made-up-stuff land 00:56:04 ok 00:57:11 -!- asdu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:57:18 spriggans are uniquely suited to polearms as player characters due to their mobility but, if things i say are made up, i'll just stop talking 00:59:24 you were attempting to argue that monsters spawning with specific weapon indicates the player species should have good aptitudes in this weapon 00:59:54 spriggans have terrible polearms attributes (despite any supposed 'synergy'), yet spriggans monsters routinely use polearms 01:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:20 there's just no such rule in crawl; some monsters display this bias for their player counterpart, others don't 01:01:47 this is a cool discussion to me, because it hits directly on my Three Theories Of Aptitudes post 01:02:16 doesnty is working with theory (1), "aptitudes tell the player what a race is good at" 01:04:56 -!- bgiannan_ is now known as bgiannan 01:05:13 (which is a clearly incorrect theory, so explains why the arguments following from it are silly!) 01:05:19 theory (2), "aptitudes encode the secret illuminati plot to control our government" 01:05:27 bingo 01:05:57 do you have a link to this post anywhere 01:07:24 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:09:45 aptitudes are rigged, clearly 01:10:18 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:10:24 Doesnty: http://pastebin.com/qK4PKVM0 01:10:40 original post is on the forbidden site, Somethin Gawful Dot Com 01:10:59 ah 01:12:58 -!- bgiannan has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5] 01:16:04 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 01:16:17 !bug 0010447 01:16:18 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=0010447 01:16:29 oh, crap 01:16:30 that 01:16:50 -!- bgiannan has quit [Client Quit] 01:16:58 I need to see about updating cdo's signing stuff 01:17:45 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 01:18:01 @??raiju 01:18:01 raiju (11h) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 30-45 | AC/EV: 4/14 | Dam: 1111(elec:7-9) | see invisible | Res: 06magic(20), 11elec+++, 08blind | XP: 264 | Sp: blinkbolt (2d14) [06!sil] | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 01:18:27 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:20:11 btw, if anyone has time to look at temple entrance vaults not generating in trunk (entrance seems to only place as just random stairs) 01:20:18 feel free, but I'll take a look tomorrow maybe 01:20:48 I tested with 10 chars and all got dummy temple entrances, and other players report not getting the vaults any more 01:22:29 -!- Barfbag has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:23:19 i'll bisect and see what i can find 01:25:08 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 01:28:02 -!- anthems has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:28:08 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 01:29:01 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:29:29 -!- kogasa has joined ##crawl-dev 01:29:50 ty 01:30:22 how are you testing? 01:30:29 Pleasingfungus: I'm vaguely worried it was my commit to remove CHANCE priority, but I'm not even sure that temple used that 01:30:31 it looks like the bug is probably also present in 0.19 01:30:38 0.19.0, that is 01:30:54 I tested by making 10 chars, wizmode, detect temple, go to detected temple level, map 01:31:00 so in the worst way possible, I guess 01:31:12 mapstat might tell you this info as well 01:31:18 in fact let me try it 01:32:15 oh, if it's in 0.19, then probably not my commit anyhow 01:33:05 interesting 01:33:07 -!- Doesnty has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:33:09 detect temple? is that a & command? 01:33:21 my approach was "make character, go to d:4-7 until ^o shows temple" 01:33:28 oh, lol 01:33:29 i think i win for worst :P 01:33:32 yeah 01:33:35 and yes, &: 01:33:41 detects all branch entrances 01:33:44 including temple 01:33:48 as in on what levels they generated 01:33:57 so then you can just &~ to that level 01:34:03 it seems that mapstat only sees this vault 01:34:07 as viable for temple entry 01:34:23 nicolae_shop_temple_entry_statues_fountains 01:34:23 !vault nicolae_shop_temple_entry_statues_fountains 01:34:24 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/builder/shops.des#L217 01:34:26 bug not in 0.18 01:34:49 oh 01:34:56 and said vault is not a temple entry 01:35:04 sigh 01:35:05 # A shop owner has copied a temple entry for their shop. Is nothing sacred? 01:35:06 # (minmay_temple_entry_statues_fountains 01:35:10 dammit, nicolae 01:35:28 so yeah none of these entries are listed as viable 01:35:34 however I"m not sure if this is normal for mapstat 01:35:53 want me to check right before/after that vault was added? 01:36:01 or are you? 01:36:30 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:36:40 oh no, I do't think this vault has anything to do with the bug 01:36:44 it's just named as if it's a temple entry 01:36:46 but it's not 01:36:53 bad name choice by nicolae I think 01:37:11 looking at it I can't fathom how it would cause this 01:37:32 no special tags affecting temple, or depth or anything like that, it's just a shop vault 01:37:43 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:39:45 %git 9910701511f98d1df097e79f72bdaadc51f43704 01:39:45 07regret-index02 * 0.19-a0-752-g9910701: Try to repair minor save compat / solve errors from recent Temple changes 10(7 months ago, 2 files, 2036+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9910701511f9 01:39:54 possible relevant commit 01:39:58 Pleasingfungus: ^ 01:40:03 just seems like a candidate 01:41:08 maybe I should check mapstat in 0.18 01:43:07 hrm, looking at that commit, maybe it's not the culprit 01:43:18 but I'm going to see if 0.18 mapstat output looks normal 01:48:26 ok, yeah, mapstat shows many temple entries for D:4-7 in 0.18 01:48:41 so that's a way to narrow it down without using wizmode etc 01:49:01 ./crawl -mapstat D:4-7 -iters 1 01:49:13 yeah, that commit was a red-herring 01:49:40 -!- mong has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:50:08 I can try some bisecting later now that I can test it more easilly, if no one else figures it out 01:50:17 probably also debug mode and seeing its map generation 01:50:25 might give an indication, not sure though 01:50:41 -!- matp has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:56:23 036914593039b9783918f93e0dfe751289f13d6c was good, 9910701511f9^ was bad 01:56:28 %git 036914593039b9783918 01:56:28 07|amethyst02 * 0.19-a0-375-g0369145: Allow assigning hotkey 'a' to floor items. 10(8 months ago, 1 file, 6+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/036914593039 01:56:35 %git 9910701511f9^ 01:56:35 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.19-a0-751-gbe1ce7d: Fix two doxygen comments 10(7 months ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/be1ce7d28764 01:56:43 somewhere in there. 01:56:48 i continue to bisect 02:00:10 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:10 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 02:02:52 -!- lobf_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:03:36 -!- Danei[notDanei] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:03:59 -!- lobf has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:03:59 -!- lobf_ is now known as lobf 02:04:10 praise be unto the Great Bisector 02:10:49 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 02:11:52 %git cc390b85 02:11:52 07regret-index02 * 0.19-a0-719-gcc390b8: Thorough Temple edits/clean-up, some new maps, altar average 12.15 -> 14.41 10(7 months ago, 1 file, 2468+ 3005-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cc390b852004 02:11:56 ^ my prediction 02:12:07 haven't finished bisecting but there aren't many options left 02:14:22 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 02:16:18 oh 02:16:19 shit 02:16:22 I think I see it 02:16:31 Pleasingfungus: he messed up the tg 02:16:39 temple_entry -> temple entry 02:16:56 if you look at that commit, it moves things into a function and changes the tag 02:17:00 yeah I should have seen that before 02:17:06 I think you can stop bisecting 02:17:39 I'm making a fix 02:18:34 hrm 02:20:47 maybe reporting change a bit, but I do see a temple entry placing now 02:21:15 perhaps only the mini vaults are listed in terms of possible vaults to choose, and the main ones don't get this listing 02:21:42 yeah, I seem them listed if I do 25 iters 02:21:44 going to push this 02:22:25 -!- ololoev has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:24:56 -!- Kranix has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:25:25 03gammafunk02 07* 0.20-a0-514-g839ffe0: Fix temple entrances vault placement (Spectrina, PleasingFungus) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/839ffe0a93fe 02:25:31 Pleasingfungus: thanks for tracking that down 02:25:35 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:25:37 also need to cherry pick that to 0.19, I guess 02:26:01 i should really have predicted that commit after you brought up the *other* fix for that commit 02:26:04 but i was tired 02:26:07 also, i am tired. 02:26:14 thank you for making the actual fix! 02:26:34 you realize, of course, that this is a player buff 02:26:39 hah 02:26:46 it's fine, we'll have to make a corresponding player nerf 02:27:37 ..perhaps we could removed ranged combat... 02:28:04 03gammafunk02 07[stone_soup-0.19] * 0.19.3-1-g3169bf9: Fix temple entrances vault placement (Spectrina, PleasingFungus) 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3169bf9a1fb4 02:28:21 typo in the commit title, but oh well 02:29:34 removing ranged combat would be a player buff. reduced boredom = fewer deaths 02:29:35 think about it. 02:30:11 alright, well I'll consult my list of possible ~caster nerfs~ then 02:31:12 change it so that, instead of monsters with summoning spells automatically getting abjuration, all monsters automatically get abjuration 02:31:24 simplification! 02:31:28 -!- ololoev has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:31:43 the rat squeaks. your orange demon shudders! 02:36:01 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:38:04 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:42:13 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507]] 02:46:27 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-514-g839ffe0 02:51:53 -!- DubDrop has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:52:03 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:52:28 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 02:52:55 -!- acalycine has quit [Quit: bye] 02:56:56 -!- Grammus has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:05:47 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:10:09 Stable (0.19) branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.19.3-1-g3169bf9 03:12:58 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:13:59 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:18:11 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:19:52 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-514-g839ffe0 (34) 03:21:52 Stable (0.19) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.19.3-1-g3169bf9 03:29:59 -!- hellmonk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:34:15 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-514-g839ffe0 (34) 03:46:51 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:49:55 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:08:00 -!- glaas has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:24:15 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:31:41 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:35:34 -!- Smello has quit [Quit: Bye!] 04:48:12 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:49:12 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:13:04 03hong02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/432 * 0.20-a0-513-g47591f2: add misc.txt for miscellaneous word and sentence 10(2 days ago, 3 files, 9+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/47591f29dd38 05:13:04 03hong02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/432 * 0.20-a0-520-gdc93002: Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/crawl/crawl 10(16 hours ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dc930023d305 05:13:04 03hong02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/432 * 0.20-a0-521-gf41ef6f: add dat/database/misc.txt 10(36 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f41ef6fddaff 05:14:41 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:39:23 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:52:13 -!- Marrrrrr has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:59:27 03hong02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/432 * 0.20-a0-523-gf4a3508: Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/crawl/crawl 10(46 minutes ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f4a35088d348 05:59:27 03hong02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/432 * 0.20-a0-524-g4471f10: translate startup.cc 10(2 minutes ago, 3 files, 824+ 38-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4471f1026e1f 06:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:12:39 -!- jeefus has joined ##crawl-dev 06:15:38 -!- zxc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:16:23 -!- jefus- has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:17:23 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 06:20:09 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 06:20:26 !messages 06:20:27 No messages for SteelNeuron. 06:31:34 -!- Ratatosk has joined ##crawl-dev 06:59:51 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 07:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14:30 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:18:37 -!- matp has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:25:26 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:40:50 -!- Twinge has quit [] 07:44:03 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 07:52:09 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:54:30 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:15:17 Stable (0.19) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.19.3-1-g3169bf9 08:26:04 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:28:25 -!- MrRooks has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:30:18 -!- flappity has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:31:49 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:32:09 -!- Basil__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:35:06 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:37:05 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 08:43:25 -!- bencryption has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 08:43:45 -!- Fixer has joined ##crawl-dev 08:51:57 -!- snux has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:53:10 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:02:32 -!- bannakaffalatta has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 09:04:24 -!- Hellen has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:21:55 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:26:20 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26:36 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 09:30:38 -!- knu has quit [Quit: Reboot...] 09:32:23 -!- Svalin has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:34:04 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:34:30 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 09:36:17 -!- zxc_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:37:02 -!- zxc has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:37:42 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:40:04 -!- Ratatosk has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:40:31 -!- advil has joined ##crawl-dev 09:41:00 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:41:19 -!- Ratatosk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:41:49 -!- darkschneider has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:42:09 -!- darkschneider has joined ##crawl-dev 09:45:40 -!- mroovka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:53:57 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:00 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:01 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:14:08 Is there a standard way to keep tags up to date on when syncing a github fork with its origin? I ask because the crawl version string seems to be generated from tags 10:17:09 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:24:06 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:51 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:35:37 advil: yea the versioning uses git describe which is based on the number of commits since the most recent tag. I've screwed up some experimentals by not git fetching --tags but I don't know offhand of the best practice method 10:36:53 it's weird I don't remember how I handle this on cbro but I know I've had to manually sync it a few times at least. if you find a good answer let me know please 10:48:06 -!- Basil is now known as Guest20381 10:48:57 -!- chan20 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:49:02 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:56:09 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:56:17 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:06:00 there were no temple entry vaults for 7 months? 11:08:14 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:08:19 wheals: and no one noticed! 11:09:14 huh 11:09:34 probably just clustering illusion.... 11:23:00 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:25:11 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:34:00 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:35:19 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:40:21 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40:51 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:03 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 11:47:20 johnstein: I think I was just looking for "git fetch upstream --tags", which seems to have done what I wanted, but maybe you already knew that 11:47:26 version # builds correctly now at least 11:47:46 need to have upstream set of course 11:48:04 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:31 johnstein: and then git push origin master --tags 11:58:37 -!- zxc_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:18 Stable (0.19) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.19.3-1-g3169bf9 12:06:48 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-514-g839ffe0 (34) 12:09:44 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:14:02 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:19:47 -!- Ratatosk has quit [Quit: Ratatosk] 12:21:06 03hong02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/432 * 0.20-a0-525-gac47188: fix compile error in startup.cc 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ac4718883c34 12:32:20 -!- knu has quit [Quit: Reboot...] 12:34:33 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:37:01 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:39:32 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 12:41:46 bugfix for fsim defense with spiny demonspawns 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10914 by advil 12:42:48 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:44:19 -!- miek_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:44:39 -!- taylskid has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:23 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:32 -!- miek_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:56 something is odd for fsim defense via Fd for octopodes; it doesn't crash but it runs _extremely_ slowly 12:47:33 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:47:57 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 12:56:19 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:56:29 -!- miek_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:58:22 -!- miek_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:59:31 -!- RBrandon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:00:00 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:28 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 13:02:44 -!- bannakaffalatta has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 13:29:27 Rubinko (L27 DrTm) ASSERT(who) in 'beam.cc' at line 1967 failed. (Tomb:3) 13:38:35 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:42:40 -!- MadCoyote is now known as FunkyBomb 13:43:41 -!- adelrune has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:45:59 -!- Guest20381 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:53:31 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 14:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:10:44 -!- RBrandon has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:18:41 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:44:49 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:47:35 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:47:44 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:53:07 -!- bgiannan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:55:05 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:57:35 -!- Basil is now known as Guest91071 15:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:00 -!- jehoesefat has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:24:14 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:24:50 -!- bgiannan1 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.6] 15:25:15 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:32:46 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:33:29 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:34:03 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:37:37 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 15:39:51 -!- RBrandon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:41:25 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:44:17 !crashlog 15:44:18 16536. PublicChatTest, XL4 TrCK, T:549 (milestone): http://webzook.net/soup/morgue/trunk/PublicChatTest/crash-PublicChatTest-20170123-200001.txt 15:44:23 !crashlog Rubinko 15:44:25 14. Rubinko, XL27 DrTm, T:84923 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Rubinko/crash-Rubinko-20170123-182927.txt 15:45:37 I wonder if that's also pain bond 15:46:06 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 15:48:45 smoke demon misses player, hits mummy with sticky flame, pain bond recurses and kills the smoke demon, does cleanup, and returns to the middle of the sticky flame code 15:50:51 -!- adelrune is now known as Notmaths 15:50:56 -!- Notmaths is now known as NotMaths 16:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:25 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:16:46 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 16:16:57 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:21:16 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:05 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:35:35 -!- NotMaths is now known as adelrune 16:38:49 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:39:56 -!- bannakaffalatta has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 16:48:17 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 16:48:41 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507]] 16:50:47 -!- G-Flex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:52:11 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 16:53:10 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 16:55:10 -!- mroovka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:58 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:43 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 17:09:06 gammafunk: Please stop saying that Beogh is a parody. That's just not true. 17:12:05 -!- glaas has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:12:26 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 17:13:44 -!- Kranix has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:14:34 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:19:05 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:20:30 -!- Brannock__ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:20:40 hrm, something weird is happening 17:20:46 -!- Brannock has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:20:50 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:20:52 -!- Brannock__ is now known as Brannock 17:21:13 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:21:15 -!- Brannock__ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:21:31 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:21:33 -!- Brannock__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:22:28 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 17:25:14 -!- adelrune has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:23 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 17:27:06 dpeg: well the semantics of what precisely Beogh 'is' aren't too interesting to me. Be it a parody or a critique or whatever, what I said in that post, I mean 17:28:29 -!- Guest91071 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:29:10 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:29:35 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:34 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:32:34 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:33:31 -!- exant has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:37:49 -!- Jetnerd has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:41:52 -!- darkschneider has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:42:09 -!- darkschneider has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:27 gammafunk: you are shaping the discourse by what you say 17:43:12 And I told you that I did not make Beogh as a parody. Beogh is, like Elyvilon, Zin and TSO, inspired by aspects of the history of Christianity. 17:44:18 as I said, these semantics don't interest me; not having direct criticisms or paradies (be they intentional or not) of specific religions is my concern 17:44:23 *parodies 17:45:11 <|amethyst> what about direct criticisms and parodies of non-religious ideologies? 17:45:14 <|amethyst> (Gozag) 17:49:44 |amethyst: does that bother you? 17:50:44 yred clearly symbolizes undead communism =p 17:51:01 capitalism does have many participants, but I'm not sure people feel that criticism or parody of it is offensive 17:51:15 maybe in the US or other places we'll get to that point though! 17:51:38 <|amethyst> no, it's not my ideology, but it does feel like a bad caricature 17:54:29 i'm not sure even the most hard-core proponents of capitalism would take offense there, but maybe i'm not the one to say 17:54:55 <|amethyst> late capitalism subsumes and subverts criticism of itself 17:55:16 <|amethyst> it's like yall have never read Jameson or something 17:55:28 gonna make a poverty god next 17:55:47 you have to starve yourself for powers...what could go wrong? 17:55:48 heh 17:56:00 it'll be so OP when food is removed =p 17:56:02 <|amethyst> make Fedhas forbid eating bread rations 17:56:07 <|amethyst> because they're not gluten-free 17:56:20 celiac mutation 17:56:21 it's not a food preference, I'm allergic!!! 17:57:41 i helped my sister in law write a couple of papers for her philosophy final last month. and i had to read some tract claiming that the natural end-point of enlightenment thought bends toward totalitarianism 17:57:50 and i also had to read some heidegger tract 17:58:26 and i have to say that as far as i can tell, philosophy boils down to using 7000 words to explain something that should take 500 17:59:05 ProzacElf: read Russell 17:59:22 i like bertrand russell, but he's kind of an exception 17:59:22 <|amethyst> ProzacElf: Horkheimer? 17:59:31 daniel dennett is good too 17:59:32 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:59:48 <|amethyst> ProzacElf: re "natural end-point of enlightenment though bends toward totalitarianism", that is 17:59:52 ah yes, horkheimer was that one 18:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:03 couldn't remember the author initially 18:00:08 ProzacElf: that may be because he was a mathematician before he became a philosopher, and mathematics tends to go for extremely concise presentations 18:00:20 yeah 18:00:41 and dennett has always been pretty involved in psychology and cognitive science 18:00:49 which at least usually ask that you get to your point eventually 18:00:55 cogsci more than psych 18:01:29 although when you're talking about the nature of consciousness you almost get forced into a certain amount of circular reasoning at some point 18:01:40 -!- HellTiger has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:01:46 gammafunk: I have never understood whether *you* are worried about RL relgions popping up in Crawl (which they do since Linley) or whether you are worried that players may be worried. 18:01:55 <|amethyst> as long as you don't start holding out Richard Dawkins as a reasonable philosopher 18:02:06 hahaha 18:02:39 |amethyst: slippery slope. Is Augustin reasonable? If he was back then, is he still today? 18:02:54 dawkins sort of proves the point that you can be really smart in some areas and that doesn't apply universally 18:03:55 dpeg: both, and the fact that something happened since Linley doesn't give it a pass 18:04:16 however Beogh is not since Linley 18:04:59 gammafunk: well, it set the setting for Crawl's religions 18:05:06 i think there's a significant difference between similarities and outright direct comparisons though. like, i can easily see where someone could take offense at sword of jihad 18:05:17 and maybe beogh giving the messiah title 18:05:27 but then i'm not sure the walking on water is enough 18:05:32 or gathering a bunch of followers 18:05:36 I am absolutely baffled how someone can draw a line from a badly named artefact like Jihad to "religions which appeal to RL are bad". 18:05:51 Like I said, to me the proper reference regarding Jihad are the uniques like Adolf. 18:05:59 well, i just thought it was sort of the starting point of this whole discussion 18:06:13 I don't know what "religions which appeal to RL" means 18:06:41 Crawl religions which borrow something from real life religions, such as Zin's speech, or TSO crusade rhethorics 18:06:42 -!- asdu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:07:01 or Islam's jihad rhethorics? 18:07:19 If you make a huge mental jump like Jihad --> Beogh, then what about Crawl's gameplay of cannibalism and manslaughter? 18:07:25 I think that's just silly, tbh. 18:08:25 you seem to have some special boundary you've drawn that says "it's ok to criticise christianity with crawl's religions, not ok to criticize others"; and by criticize I mean make a 'strong' reference to, yes people may debate whether a reference is strong or not 18:08:53 but I don't think the Beogh reference is a weak one, you even said you were intending it to be reference to christianity specifically 18:08:58 I never intended to criticize any religion! 18:09:33 anyhow this seems to be a mostly semantic debate at this point, and I don't believe we're going to agree about whether Beogh's referencing christianity is good for the game 18:09:33 When trying to invent gods for a game, you can have several sources. One of these sources is real, actually (possibly formerly) existing religions. What's bad about that? 18:09:47 Christianity, and the bible, is so rich, that it inspired four gods. 18:11:20 <|amethyst> if Christianity is rich enough to inspire four gods, why are there no gods inspired by Hinduism? Surely that should be an even richer source, what with being older and having more gods 18:11:28 regarding the Beogh criticism I can relate to: yes, allies and Crawl mix badly -- which in my book is a good reason to relegate them to gods. 18:12:01 |amethyst: because I am not familiar enough with these religions. I'd be happy if there was something along these lines... I grew up in Central Europe, though. 18:12:33 -!- jefus- has joined ##crawl-dev 18:12:47 <|amethyst> dpeg: in an officially atheist state 18:13:18 |amethyst: yes, in an intellectual home. We had bibles, went to churches, and were atheists. 18:13:24 -!- stibbi has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:14:00 and Beogh restricted to only one species: I like this sort of forced asymmetry, but I can see how others dislike it strongly. If needed, I'd open Beogh to anyone (non-orcs need an altar), and followers become honorary orcs. (This is a very interesting twist from a religious history p.o.v, btw) 18:14:50 <|amethyst> you might imagine, though, that such things would not go over so well in a place like the US 18:15:13 <|amethyst> where a substantial percentage of the population belives the Bible is literally true 18:15:23 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.20-a0-514-g839ffe0 (34) 18:16:23 -!- jeefus has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:16:35 well even those that don't believe that it's literally true might be put off by attempts to reference their religion directly in a way that looks like parody or criticism 18:16:38 |amethyst: yes. However, they life and their worship is a far cry from worship in Judea 100 AC, or middle Europe 1200, say. :) 18:16:39 "foillowers become honorary orcs" is not that different from Judaism and Islam basically declaring converts to be direct children of their progenitor, effectively erasing their actual ancestry for religious purposes 18:17:14 <|amethyst> make Beogh the god of colonialism 18:17:19 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:17:23 -!- scummos__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:36 geekosaur: I always thought that Judaism would have very high thresholds for this conversion, and that, generally speaking, one aspect of Judaism -> Christianity -> Islam was easier access by outsiders? 18:17:43 -!- Ququman has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:12 gammafunk: If we attempt to remove all content that might be offensive to people, then there'd be nothing left. 18:18:24 good thing we're not attempting to do that 18:18:31 <|amethyst> I don't think it's a matter of "might be" 18:18:43 if we start making slippery-slope arguments, soon there will be no other kind of argument 18:18:43 amalloy: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 18:18:46 I understood that we removed Jihad or Adolf because *we* were unhappy with it, not parts of the public. 18:20:15 <|amethyst> I got the impression that gammafunk *is* unhappy with it 18:20:48 yes, but again I'll not do anything if a majority of people disagree 18:20:56 I don't think one person gets some kind of override 18:21:31 I will however continue to state my opinion 18:21:43 dpeg, sort of. Judaism has gone through periods where the bar was high and those where it was lower, mostly based on how persecuted they feel at the time 18:21:50 well, I just offered one change on Beogh 18:22:07 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:23:18 geekosaur: yes, that makes sense. Here in Germany, there's some effort to make young people acquainted with the culture and the religion (pupil go to a synagogue, and we talk to Jews at school), and I heard this there. But that's a 1994 & Germany status. 18:24:32 <|amethyst> I want to see a god that is a critique of Stalinism 18:25:09 <|amethyst> I don't know, maybe you get allies, but then you have to purge them every so often 18:25:16 <|amethyst> maybe starve the Shoals to death 18:25:47 <|amethyst> (I don't think I'd actually want to see that...) 18:27:18 |amethyst: one crucial Stalin aspect is the Great Terror. Two important ingredients: (a) random targets, so that literally everyone knows someone affected (for no discernable reason), hence is afraid, and (b) terror among all ranks of the party, including the innermost circle. 18:29:08 If you are interested in this, Karl Schlögel's "Moscow 1937" is an excellent book on the topic. 18:29:47 it doesn't stop at gasping at the terror, it explains why it was done, and why it was necessary to preserve Stalin's rule (out of a position of weakness, actually) 18:30:14 One other book: Bulgakov "Margarita and the Master", written in Moscow 1940 (not published, of course) 18:30:20 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:30:20 -!- yuastnav has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:30:59 <|amethyst> yes, I've been wanting to read _The Master and Margarita_ for a while 18:31:19 the first part is truly excellent, the second part is just good, imo 18:31:53 <|amethyst> have you read Mann's _Doktor Faustus_ btw? 18:32:10 no, only heard about it -- do you recommend it? 18:32:44 -!- filthy has quit [Quit: please don't look for me] 18:33:30 <|amethyst> I do, but that's as someone not from Germany 18:33:53 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:35:33 |amethyst: my sister probably has a copy, I'll ask her 18:38:28 <|amethyst> the second main character makes a "deal with the devil" (hence the title), but that is also a taken as a reflection of German intellectual history of the inter-war period 18:40:13 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 18:42:44 |amethyst: indeed, that's also a topic in Bulgakov 18:44:55 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:46:47 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47:25 <|amethyst> Hesse's _Der Glasperlenspiel_ is also good, though it's more a criticism of academic apoliticism 18:47:40 <|amethyst> well, in part... there's much more to it than that 18:48:02 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 18:48:21 yes, so many books :) I stopped reading novels when I turned student. Now I read them upon recommendation. 18:50:17 <|amethyst> yeah, I keep a list of books I have read and it just kind of abruptly stops in my first semester of grad school :) 18:50:38 amalloy: can you try the latest 0.19.3 Tiles on your mac and tell me if there's any lag for the mouse updating cursor info? 18:50:44 <|amethyst> nine books in the last 13 years :( 18:50:50 I got a strange reply on reddit: 18:51:22 https://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/5pfsue/dcss_0193_bugfix_release/dcthg30/ 18:51:57 saying that there was no lag in the broken version and there now is in this one (If I'm interpreting that correctly) 18:52:51 i'll give it a try 18:53:38 |amethyst: how many if CS-related books are included? 18:57:03 <|amethyst> gammafunk: hm, maybe only one or two more... I read Sipser in full, but most of my coursework then research was excerpts and/or papers 18:57:46 <|amethyst> now, if you took all those papers and put them into books.... 18:59:16 <|amethyst> hm, probably I read most of _Advanced Programming Language Design_ too, but I might have skipped a few chapters 19:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:57 -!- Floodkiller has joined ##crawl-dev 19:01:18 gammafunk: mouse tracking is extremely slow in 0.19.3 on OS X 10.11.6 19:01:24 aha 19:01:37 this seems to be OS X specific 19:01:50 amalloy: and how is mouse tracking in say 0.19.2 (or 0.18)? 19:01:55 sadly i do not have time to test previous versions atm 19:01:58 ok 19:02:04 I'll ping you or PF later 19:02:17 i gotta go catch a plane. i'll let you know later if i get a chance 19:02:36 amalloy's leavin'...on a jet plane...he don't know when he'll be back again.... 19:03:49 time to re-implement anti-training 19:03:56 <|amethyst> hm, my second semester of graduate school I have read: three history books, two novels, two reference works, one pop physics book, and one pop philosophy book (Dawkins) 19:04:01 <|amethyst> s/my/since my/ 19:05:14 <|amethyst> I should learn to read again 19:05:31 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 19:05:39 gammafunk: what's this about dancing through memories? 19:05:57 Lasty: just seeing if I could have a cute line for the bugfix release 19:06:06 |amethyst gave me a good song reference though 19:06:34 -!- lnt_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:06:37 -!- lnt has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:06:44 <|amethyst> gammafunk: obvious solution to the problem 19:06:52 <|amethyst> gammafunk: is to #ifdef the two versions of the code 19:07:06 <|amethyst> gammafunk: keep the old one for OS X, the new one for elsewhere :P 19:07:07 gammafunk: trying to work in hep/usk references? 19:07:23 Lasty: well "dancing through memories" was the tagline of 0.19 19:07:26 you probably don't remember that 19:07:39 . . . I confess I don't 19:07:39 or maybe it was specifically "dancing through memory" 19:07:50 yeah, and it's just to reference to two new gods in that release 19:07:58 I haven't been able to keep active tabs on channel/events recently :-\ 19:08:10 no worries 19:08:31 0.19.0 was like 3 months ago 19:08:31 so it's easy to forget 19:08:33 %git 0.19.0 19:08:33 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.19.0: Restrict blessings to currently-friendly followers 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 7+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b5dbd8884dfd 19:08:37 -!- epsilonhalbe has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:09:09 any reference that you don't get, assume it's a Lasty dunk 19:09:12 <|amethyst> In any event, it turns out the Eagles already referenced both Hep and Usk in the same line of a song 19:09:27 yeah that's a great quote 19:09:34 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I wasn't expecting you to include the citation in the post though :) 19:09:36 wish we'd known about it at the time of release 19:09:43 hah, why not! 19:09:47 you formatted it so nicely! 19:10:16 I noticed the period after "Hotel California" 19:10:32 random period after this specific thing in the citation? this person must know what they're doing... 19:10:48 gammafunk: I eat and breathe Lastydunks 19:10:59 fr: God of Dunks 19:11:04 impgod 19:11:21 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I was following our house style 19:11:28 thou leprous pantywaist. 19:11:29 <|amethyst> gammafunk: for in-game quotes 19:11:48 ah, I figured it was some official citation format 19:12:09 <|amethyst> it probably is 19:12:23 <|amethyst> I don't bother memorizing those because it's different for every journal 19:12:49 <|amethyst> and BibTeX usually does it for me 19:13:27 <|amethyst> (or my coauthors and/or their copies of Endnote do it for me when it's in a field that insists on using Word rather than LaTeX) 19:13:55 right, don't they give you a bibtex thingy you can use, most journals? 19:14:10 It's been long enough since I've used latex that I've begun to forget it all 19:14:47 in any case, I don't think there could be a better song reference 19:14:52 |amethyst: word over latex? Cruel world. 19:14:55 unless someone actually wrote a song about hep and usk 19:17:27 <|amethyst> looks like if they have, they haven't posted it to youtube 19:17:49 <|amethyst> though there's a Korean LoL game where one of the players is "Hepliklqana" 19:18:18 <|amethyst> s/game/recorded &/ 19:18:35 |amethyst: they are fast 19:19:19 -!- Jetnerd has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:21:01 -!- hellmonk has joined ##crawl-dev 19:24:15 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:25:11 <|amethyst> ??0.19 19:25:12 I don't have a page labeled 0.19 in my learndb. Did you mean: 0.17, 0.18. 19:26:07 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:26:07 <|amethyst> it was apparently posted the day after 0.19 release :) Don't know if the game was recorded the same day or earlier 19:26:32 <|amethyst> ah, no, it was recorded the day after 0.19 release, posted a week later 19:27:41 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:29:37 that's funny 19:29:44 PF would be happy to hear that, I guess 19:30:09 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:30:14 I'm just glad he's not trolling any of my youtube videos 19:30:47 I already had to shut down ultraviolent4 with an epic comeback after he tried to dunk the dev team about Ogre apt changes 19:31:07 * dpeg should pay visit to gammafunk's live plays, nicked Beogh 19:31:19 and explain a thing or two about orcish sentiments 19:31:43 "We, the orcs, come in peace." 19:32:15 actually, you should remove beogh from dungeon crawl stone soup the videogame 19:32:49 I believe said nick beogh would get banned pretty fast 19:32:55 how about we remove hellmonk from this channel? 19:32:59 l 19:33:12 <|amethyst> hellmonk: we were just talking about how to remove hill orcs while keeping Beogh 19:33:14 gammafunk: this is orcish oppression!!1! 19:33:17 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 19:33:24 it's for your own good, dpeg 19:33:38 hm, sounds familiar :) 19:34:46 hellmonk: the mps 'method' of conversation doesn't go over all that well here; better to fully indicate irony when using it 19:35:04 I wasnt being ironic 19:35:18 well then don't use the mps method of conversation, I guess 19:35:23 ok 19:35:25 ??mps 19:35:26 I don't have a page labeled mps in my learndb. Did you mean: mds, mp, mpr, ops, md, mu, op. 19:35:46 -!- Dixie has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:36:09 we were having a serious discussion about beogh changes, but yeah more power to you if you remove it in hellcrawl 19:36:14 probably miles per second, those Americans 19:36:16 hopefully you also remove jiyva and fedhas 19:36:38 gammafunk: did I miss something about Jiyva? 19:36:43 fedhas has been a hellcrawl unfeature for about a month 19:36:50 that's good 19:37:04 anyway yeah if you wanna change beogh go for it, if the changes are good I might even merge them 19:37:13 dpeg: well, I think the god has some problems with some of its central ideas 19:37:14 I'm just not optimistic about it 19:37:27 the diving part is cool, but the way it does mutations and stat changes make it unfun for me to play 19:37:40 not a high design priority or anything 19:38:06 I have a lot more fun with xom mutations than I do J ones, since X lets you keep mutations for longer 19:38:07 tbh the biggest problem I have with jiyva is the spamming 5 to gain piety on cleared floors right after I convert 19:38:07 gammafunk: well, these can be modified once we have identified the problem! They're just flavour stuff to convey the slimey-ness, I'd say (hopefully not doing zipcode unjustice). 19:38:52 hellmonk: yeah, maybe J could retroactively do things somehow, but that's tough since crawl doesn't know how to operate on levels that aren't the current one 19:39:00 you'd have to do something to the level when the player returned 19:39:08 <|amethyst> jiyva already does stuff on other floors 19:39:10 which would not fully remove the problem, just possibly shorten the process 19:39:48 yeah I probably forget the details of that 19:40:09 <|amethyst> though you probably wouldn't want to do that across all levels, because that's lag 19:40:16 <|amethyst> but you could use a daction to do what you suggest 19:40:31 I wonder if some sort of fedhas-style "jiyva eats items, you gain piety" on leaving a floor would work without being too gameable 19:40:38 |amethyst: I wonder if you could stagger it like how Z does with gold donation 19:40:41 although tbh it doesn't even work that well for fedhas 19:40:50 A radical idea: if you take on J, all formerly created items are gone (except those in your inventory, of course). 19:42:00 if said items also didn't give you any piety reward, that could work 19:42:14 if you ahd to tally them up somehow to give the player piety based on them before they're removed 19:42:17 then it's a technical problem 19:42:38 although I suppose you could do a kind of running total in case the player *did* worship J 19:42:46 yes, many options 19:43:59 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:21 We should change demigods to be the only Beogh worshippers and get special mutations and also be able to dual wield 19:51:08 <|amethyst> ettin formicid demigods that dual-worship and quadruple-wield GSC 19:53:41 don't forget the ability to cook 20:00:05 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:30 -!- AreBrandon has joined ##crawl-dev 20:04:15 -!- dextur has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:04:58 -!- Sokar_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:08:48 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 20:09:59 -!- Fixer has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:15:11 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:17:10 -!- Atlatl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:19:36 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-515-ga5227f2: Adjust some unrands 10(43 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a5227f211594 20:19:36 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-516-ge079137: Make re-cursing unrands always curse on equip 10(56 minutes ago, 5 files, 18+ 37-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e079137a3264 20:20:09 bloodlust is all over the place 20:20:14 now buffed, now nerfed... 20:20:18 when will it end, marvin? 20:21:05 who knows! 20:22:20 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 20:22:49 gammafunk: 0.18.1 through 0.19.1 are all fast; 0.19.2 and 0.19.3 have the mouse tracking problem 20:22:57 ah 20:23:04 that is very weird 20:23:10 because my change is in 0.19.3 20:23:18 I guess that's good in the sense that my bug didn't cause it 20:23:24 but then what the hell happened in 0.19.2? 20:23:40 no, you made your change in 0.19.2 20:23:47 oh, haha 20:23:53 yes, 0.19.2 was unreleased, right 20:23:54 you confused me 20:24:04 ok, so it was my change, almost certainly 20:24:06 rip DetectMon 20:24:34 amalloy: the only difference between 0.19.2 and 0.19.3 is the amd graphics issue, resizing an image to 511x511 20:24:36 "what do the boots of assassin do for me" 20:24:38 "detect, mon" 20:24:42 right 20:24:51 so it's not going to cause an issue like this 20:24:52 but i checked anyway 20:24:59 because graphics are ??? 20:25:06 they're !!!! 20:25:19 right, so I need to figure out how my change would slow down mouse movement 20:25:44 what's happening is that mouse movement events that are so fast that there's a queue of them are skipped 20:25:52 this has been the case for a very long time, but 20:25:58 i don't think they get skipped? it seems like they get queued 20:26:07 no they get skipped 20:26:12 the skip checks the queue 20:26:14 i can record video it happening if that helps 20:26:26 you're talking about the effect you see 20:26:31 I'm talking about what's happening in code 20:26:35 okay 20:26:49 but yeah a movie would help, amalloy 20:26:56 I'm about to stream, but I can check back on that later 20:32:55 -!- Zeor has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:34:02 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 20:35:29 -!- Zeor1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:36:44 !tell gammafunk do you have a google/gmail/youtube account i can share this video with? 20:36:45 amalloy: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 20:38:10 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:41:24 gammafunk: so what kind of thing are you looking to do for the 500 stream 20:42:21 amalloy: gammafunk at gee mail 20:42:22 gammafunk: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 20:42:23 minecraft stream imo 20:42:44 minmay: not a furry thing 20:42:53 not even going to be fan service 20:43:09 gammafunk: i wasnt planning on asking for a furry thing 20:43:51 right, says that guy who already asked for me to read the fanfic onstream 20:44:52 none of the fanfics that post could have plausibly referred to involved furries in any shape, way, or form 20:45:35 you could stream descent vignettes, thats sort of like a doom wad 20:46:42 right but I don't know how to play descent 20:46:49 i guess a question is, why are you doing a 500-follower special? do the fans want something special? do you want to draw attention to something? 20:46:50 it's very mouse heavy 20:47:19 i dont use a mouse in descent at all 20:47:24 oh really? 20:47:26 that's interesting 20:47:36 and wow amalloy, you must be a blast at birthday parties 20:48:00 "Getting older just means that you're closer to death....don't you realize that?" 20:48:34 -!- Kasofa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:48:52 -!- nikheizen has joined ##crawl-dev 20:48:56 I can play doom reasonably well (enough to beat most wads on UV, maybe even from pistol start) 20:49:00 I would be terrible at descent 20:49:30 gammafunk: http://i.imgur.com/vIUIduE.png 20:49:31 I watched the GDQ speedrun of it though, looks cool 20:49:50 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:50:38 I did play the shareware of it way back when, but I don't think I got too far in that 20:51:00 you could stream undertale 20:51:04 wait you said no furry things nm 20:51:48 stream pepsiman 20:54:28 gammafunk: fwiw I don't see any mouse tracking issue with 0.19.3 on OS X 10.10.5 (or with current master tiles built on same), so it might be some sort of complex interaction 20:56:13 gammafunk: i'm not saying you shouldn't do it (although personally i wouldn't). i'm asking what reason you have for doing it, because that is a possible way to figure out what is a good kind of stream to do 21:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:32 advil: ug, that's fun. thanks for the report 21:01:57 amalloy: it's a common twitch thing to do "N follower/subscriber" specialls 21:02:11 just a way to thank the people who tune in and letting them have a bit more say about what you stream that day 21:02:47 or it can just be something unique that you wouldn't normally do, but that you think would appeal to people 21:03:08 I will probably come up with some suggestions and put it to a vote, chose a couple popular things 21:03:11 nothing complicated 21:03:17 -!- Zeor2 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:03:24 'dev' stream is one possiblity 21:06:07 live removals 21:06:35 god 21:06:53 this 'jihad removed because of tavern troll' meme is some real shit 21:06:57 fake news.... 21:08:29 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:08:35 meme magic! 21:09:20 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-516-ge079137 (34) 21:09:22 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:10:14 post-truth indeed 21:11:07 Pleasingfungus: alternative facts, please 21:11:26 Pleasingfungus: gotta remove troll to show them!! 21:11:54 MarvinPA: <3 21:12:10 it's illegal to troll me 21:14:29 -!- Zeor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:16:08 Developers removing features, flavor is being lost, and time wasted on troll feature requests. Sad! 21:16:29 lol 21:18:14 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 21:19:34 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:27:58 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 21:35:38 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:42:26 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-517-g5f97612: Fix colouring for Nemelex wrath on ^O 10(58 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5f97612e966a 21:42:40 -!- Boatshow has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:43:36 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: hm... are you sure you don't need save-compat for the cursed change? 21:44:02 i don't think so, iirc all unrand properties are already fixed up on save transfer 21:44:22 <|amethyst> oh, right 21:45:13 maybe something weird happens if a non-unrand with *curse gets transferred into a current version (did those even exist in the past? i don't remember it but maybe) 21:45:18 <|amethyst> hm 21:46:32 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:48:23 those have never existed 21:48:49 <|amethyst> looks like it works 21:50:15 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:51:01 <|amethyst> oh, I see 21:51:23 <|amethyst> artefact properties are always stored as shorts in the hashtable 21:52:59 <|amethyst> bool vs number vs brand is just a runtime thing 21:53:11 <|amethyst> so this doesn't change marshalling 21:54:22 <|amethyst> all artps still get saved and loaded; they'd be replaced for most unrands at load time, but if the marshalling changed that would be likely to crash or at least desync before it got to that point 21:55:06 <|amethyst> s/to that point/to the point of updating the item's properties 21:57:12 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:57:44 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 21:59:00 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 22:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:53 -!- feksclaus has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.7] 22:09:17 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-517-g5f97612 (34) 22:28:22 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:30:50 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:33:52 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 22:34:09 -!- jehoesefat has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:34:19 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 22:36:20 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:37:21 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:39:54 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 22:40:21 -!- AreBrandon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:44:00 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 22:46:11 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:47:30 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:47:56 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:48:06 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:54:47 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 23:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:54 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:05:03 -!- advil has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:06:30 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! 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