00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:02 -!- tksquared_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:08:41 -!- adelrune has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:08:49 -!- circ-user-ZQxi3 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:10 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-501-g0de2c2e (34) 00:09:41 -!- dondy1 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5] 00:11:38 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:32 -!- Floodkiller has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:20:11 -!- DevlanMud has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:21:39 -!- waat has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:25:55 -!- destroythecore has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:36:59 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:37:46 -!- Jetnerd has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:40:43 -!- ZugAddict_ has quit [Client Quit] 00:48:16 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:51:30 god, I finally found the source of the mouse lag thing 00:51:37 now I just need to figure out how to fix it 00:52:42 hrm 00:55:48 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:57:29 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 00:58:05 -!- hellmonk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:58:57 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 01:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:04 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:08:12 -!- kuzimoto_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:12:21 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:15:41 well, I think I've done it 01:15:45 I've fixed the mouse bug 01:15:48 my god have mercy on my soul 01:17:21 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:17:47 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:18:07 -!- ehjax_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:18:22 -!- yesno_ is now known as yesno 01:23:23 -!- Piginabag has joined ##crawl-dev 01:27:38 -!- apexlion has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:29:39 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:36:56 -!- kuzimoto has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:41:56 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 01:43:47 -!- AtlatlCauac has quit [Client Quit] 01:49:01 -!- rhovland has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:49:37 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:50:06 -!- purge has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:53:11 -!- vermi has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:53:42 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:54:42 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 01:56:43 -!- matp has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:57:24 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05:07 -!- matp has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:12:36 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:13:48 -!- adibis has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:18:16 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 02:27:26 -!- Yermak has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:29:01 gammafunk: ugh, spending time on mouse problems? 02:29:07 that must crush your soul 02:29:17 well, this is in dcss 02:29:22 there's a mouse bug 02:29:25 but I've fixed it 02:29:35 just need to write up the commit message and push 02:29:54 it's not soul crushing, it's "hey I don't know how to do graphics programming, but I get to figure out this SDL event loop" 02:30:27 -!- Raine357 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:30:49 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:43:15 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:45:39 -!- Rast has joined ##crawl-dev 02:45:48 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:46:52 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:51:24 lol, but now you have to deal with mouse input on top of tiles! 03:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:49 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:03:30 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:04:54 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 03:05:08 !messages 03:05:09 No messages for SteelNeuron. 03:14:00 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:16:01 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-501-g0de2c2e (34) 03:17:36 -!- rjaguar3 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:25:31 -!- voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:27:18 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:29:43 -!- circsquare has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:34:26 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:41:17 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 03:58:03 -!- xnavy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:58:37 it's not on top of tiles, it's part of tiles 03:59:51 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:03:00 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 04:04:38 ok, fine 04:04:43 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 04:05:03 the mouse functionality used to be separate from webtiles though 04:05:10 -!- chan20 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:05:58 which is a big part of the reason why i learned the hjklyubn keys 04:10:22 -!- Kranix has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:11:16 oh this has nothing to do with webtiles 04:11:27 this is Tiles (as in local tiles) 04:11:27 e.g. sdl 04:11:34 webtiles is all in javascript 04:11:54 s/e.g./i.e./ 04:12:12 not that anyone on the dev team is really great with javascript either 04:13:46 honestly writing this up is almost as much work 04:18:15 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:18:16 now which bug do I reference 04:18:49 -!- darkschneider has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:19:06 -!- darkschneider has joined ##crawl-dev 04:23:42 dammit, my ccache! 04:32:27 03gammafunk02 07* 0.20-a0-502-g555d78b: Fix a longstanding Tiles mouse cursor lag bug (#10278) 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 16+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/555d78b692f7 04:32:54 gonna wait a bit before I cherry-pick that to 0.19 04:36:08 Oh!!! Is that the bug that made the mouse take ages to update the tooltip you were looking at? 04:36:13 I don't use mouse anymore but thank God it's fixed 04:37:42 yes 04:37:42 actually SteelNeuron 04:37:42 if you can test with that build, would be helpful 04:37:53 not sure what your OS is but it's probably different than mine 04:45:44 Linux arch_halberd 4.8.13-1-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Dec 9 07:24:34 CET 2016 x86_64 GNU/Linux 04:46:14 Let's compile that 04:48:41 what are you on? 04:52:17 Oh my god YES 04:52:32 It fixes it gammafunk, I just tested on that commit and another branch and the difference is night and day 04:52:57 All my tiles are wrong, however. There is some tile offset nonsense going on, and I think I have a clean build 04:53:28 so give that a check just in case 04:54:17 SteelNeuron do your make again 04:54:28 that happens some times, the tile sheets don't get copied 04:54:49 you should see messages about pngs getting copied if you do that make again 04:54:54 we really need to track down why that happens 04:55:01 good to hear re the bug, thanks 04:55:24 sad that it had to last since 0.16 all due a silly few lines being in the wrong spot of a loop 04:55:31 I'm doing a clean -xfd firs just in case 04:55:36 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 04:56:05 Shows how little people use the mouse if it wasn't hunted much earlier :P 04:56:19 I only dread it when I'm looking for the more obscure info commands like tile options 04:56:36 -!- Kranix has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:56:38 I think quite a few do, it has been reported a number of times, but yeah would be interesting to know how many tiles users actually like the mouse 04:56:57 heh, maybe that bug helped a few learn to use the keyboard, so in a way it was a good bug... 04:57:35 Right, tiles are fine now 04:57:43 SteelNeuron: but re that tiles messed up thing, 98% chance tilesheets are not getting fully copied, and if you see it, just run your exact make command again 04:57:44 It feels so good to drag the mouse around... 04:57:53 you'll see messages about the sheets getting copied 04:58:09 longstanding issue with our makefile 04:58:19 I might start using mouse to make travel exclusions 04:58:23 one of many longstanding issues with our makefile, but that one can be pretty annoying 04:59:08 Hmm... I will look at that if I get the chance 05:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:31 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:05:39 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:09:24 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-502-g555d78b (34) 05:10:00 -!- chan20 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:15:08 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 05:22:39 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 05:22:40 The build passed. (master - 555d78b #7586 : gammafunk): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/193322240 05:22:41 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 05:26:56 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:33:04 -!- Menche has quit [*.net *.split] 05:33:52 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:33:53 -!- Pacra__ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:34:32 -!- Ratatosk has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:04 -!- Ratatosk has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:38:47 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:38:49 -!- Ratatosk has joined ##crawl-dev 05:45:03 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:48:17 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:52:12 -!- Taraiph has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:52:38 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 06:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:09:35 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:12:29 -!- jeefus has joined ##crawl-dev 06:16:26 -!- jefus- has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:29:11 -!- fazisi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:33:43 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:43 -!- matp has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:42:43 -!- bitcoinbastard_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:50:19 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:57:42 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:33 -!- Shard1697 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:08:26 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:09:40 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:09:43 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:18:10 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:25:42 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:26:54 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:27:55 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 07:39:11 -!- murphy_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:45:38 -!- Furril has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:47:16 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:48:37 -!- Ge0ff has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:54:47 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:17 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:03:55 !tell alexjurkiewicz How would you feel about changing Zealot's Sword to Sword of the Righteous? I think that could be a more interesting way of expressing the idea that this blade is used by people who are convinced of their holy truth and let it drive them into a blind rage. 08:03:55 Lasty: OK, I'll let alexjurkiewicz know. 08:06:05 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:07:46 -!- Fixer has joined ##crawl-dev 08:07:57 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:08:21 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:14:14 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 08:14:47 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 08:18:50 -!- ehjax_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:20:33 Lasty: Would "Sword of Holy War" still be a bit contentious? 08:25:44 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:26:40 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:28:23 It doesn't scan well for me -- think how awkward "sword of world war" sounds. I'm not sure it's otherwise a problem, since it doesn't call out any one group as much. 08:28:56 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:29:32 -!- Furril has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:33:12 <|amethyst> BTW, we have "Crusades" in rand_wpn.txt 08:33:18 <|amethyst> that should probably be changed or removed 08:35:49 |amethyst: The crusades are associated with Christianity, but are they associated with modern-day Christianity? 08:36:04 <|amethyst> Lasty: they're associated with George W Bush 08:36:11 |amethyst: haha 08:36:26 <|amethyst> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Crusade_(CounterPunch) 08:38:35 Dictionaries tend to list crusade as something that can be a literal reference or a figurative one -- "a crusade against hunger" 08:39:16 I'm not sure how to feel about it. 08:39:50 My inclination is to say it's not really singling a group out, but that may be my cultural bias showing. 08:43:57 I know Wizards of the Coast has a Crusade card in Magic, but had to retire the Jihad card game name 08:44:15 but thats probably a legal rather than social judgment 08:47:11 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:53:36 My issue with Jihad is that it's a loanword 08:54:22 So it is a bit jarring to read, implications aside 08:54:30 but it seems it's agreed that the Jihad name has to go 08:54:39 Yeah, Sword of Holy War doesn't scan well, I agree 08:54:54 Zealot's Sword sounds good, but too mundane, sounds like a magic item to me, not an unrandart 08:55:01 evne Sword of the Zealot would be better 08:55:35 Or go the Diablo 2 naming route with something like "Zealot's Charge" 08:56:58 <|amethyst> I like "Righteous" because "zealot" feels like a word used by outsiders 08:57:10 -!- Insomniak has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:57:36 <|amethyst> I'd think a follower of TSO would more likely to call themselves "righteous" than a "zealot" 08:58:05 <|amethyst> OTOH, that might be a level of irony lost upon players 08:59:50 |amethyst: agreed 09:00:01 but at least the level of irony is available! :D 09:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03:23 -!- bannakaffalatta has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 09:05:55 -!- Kranix has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:06:41 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:13 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:49 -!- RBrandon has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:01:55 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:10:11 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:13:42 hi, I succesfuly build crawl from git but it end up messy in source folder, how can I build in other directory? /msys2/ 10:14:58 <|amethyst> Fixer: unfortunately our Makefile doesn't currently support separate source and build directories 10:15:30 <|amethyst> Fixer: probably the best you can do is make a farm of symlinks to the real source folder, and do the build there 10:15:44 <|amethyst> Fixer: or improve our Makefile (godspeed) 10:15:48 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 10:16:42 if I copy needed files into other directory, it failes to start :/ 10:17:18 <|amethyst> hm, maybe what you want is "make install" 10:17:30 i'm doing it right now 10:17:42 Neither DESTDIR nor prefix defined -- nowhere to install to, aborting. 10:17:43 aha 10:17:46 will specify 10:18:39 <|amethyst> hm 10:18:41 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:18:48 <|amethyst> I'm not sure about the details on msys2 10:19:02 <|amethyst> probably prefix is what you want but I'm not sure what you'd set it to 10:19:38 prefix=/usr/local/crawl make install TILES=y 10:19:43 will see 10:19:57 <|amethyst> isn't /usr/local/crawl a little weird on msys? 10:20:11 nope, doable i think 10:20:16 <|amethyst> ah, cool 10:20:19 it mimics unix layout 10:20:28 -!- Piginabag has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:20:46 build env took 1.5 gb... 10:21:04 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:22:16 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:22:38 <|amethyst> mine is 13 GiB, but 11 GiB of that consists of Crawl executables built at different times with different compiler options :) 10:22:52 <|amethyst> over 450 MiB of .o files... 10:23:06 <|amethyst> (of course, this is with debugging symbols and all that) 10:23:52 <|amethyst> anyway, must be going... if you run into more problems, stick around and you'll probably find a Windows dev here at some point :) 10:25:02 <|amethyst> (a dev who uses Windows, not necessarily a dev who develops Windows software... :) 10:26:01 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:26:14 -!- Pacra__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:34:25 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:37:45 -!- iFurril has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:44:44 it seems it rebuilds everything each time? 10:45:15 i think normally it should not recompile at all 10:47:18 -!- feksclaus has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.6] 10:49:36 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 10:50:07 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:52:23 success 10:52:43 "make -j4 install TILES=y DESTDIR=~/crawl-bin" did it for me 10:52:44 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit] 10:54:02 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:55:30 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:55:34 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:57:58 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:03:11 -!- feksclaus has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.6] 11:04:27 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit] 11:05:11 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:05:41 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit] 11:06:48 -!- Furril has quit [Client Quit] 11:09:01 gammafunk: after about 20 min of play I have confidence to say the bug is fixed for me. Thank you very much! 11:10:46 -!- nattefrost has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:12:58 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:13:49 -!- Ratatosk has quit [Quit: Ratatosk] 11:14:28 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:16:17 !learn e wand_of_random_effects[1 s/acts like a random wand/produces a variety of random, mostly harmful, effects 11:16:18 wand of random effects[1/2]: An unreliable wand which produces a variety of random, mostly harmful, effects. You might cook Sigmund, or haste him. Doesn't include heal wounds. Does include draining -- the good gods won't like it if that happens. 11:19:59 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 11:27:10 -!- bannakaffalatta has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:28:17 -!- wheals_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:07 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:30:50 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:32:03 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:17 -!- saltylicorice has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:39:03 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 11:42:52 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:31 -!- feksclaus has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.6] 11:47:08 -!- Furril has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:51:40 -!- zxc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:56:39 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:01:04 -!- feksclaus has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.7] 12:02:56 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit] 12:07:34 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:08:26 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:04 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-502-g555d78b (34) 12:14:25 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:55 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:21:32 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:29:05 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:30:47 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:36 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:17 -!- feksclaus has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.7] 12:37:30 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit] 12:47:28 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:47:35 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:48:22 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:55:53 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:55:57 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:58 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:09:11 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 13:09:49 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 13:22:58 -!- mibert has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:48 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:25:52 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:27:10 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:30:49 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:31:22 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:33:04 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:33:42 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:38:50 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:39:34 had crashing spree on start, feels like antivirus checks settings file and causes crash, probably 13:43:43 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 13:52:24 -!- Dixie has quit [Quit: lates] 13:55:43 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:37 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:34 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:21:38 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:24:32 i have some strange crashes, I build debug build, but it says there are no symbols 14:24:44 only thing i get is this: http://pastebin.com/raw/vFZCHzJM (in gdb) 14:26:16 "Unable to get stack trace on this platform." 14:27:04 that last is because attaching from a subprocess doesn't work on windows 14:27:56 (when generating a crash log, crawl tries to launch a gdb to attach to itself) 14:28:18 lets go other way 14:28:21 i run it under gdb on windows 14:28:23 and it crashes 14:28:28 but it can't find symbols... 14:28:32 why? 14:28:41 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 14:28:47 i compiled it with "make debug install" 14:28:49 because microsoft doesn't ship symbol tables for its libraries 14:29:12 oh, there's also sdl which probably isn;t affected by crawl's own debug settings 14:29:16 it does, but it is complicated 14:30:06 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 14:30:24 meanwhile this looks suspiciously like your video driver is what is crashing 14:30:46 yes, it happens on startup and not a problem, but I really want to get backtrace 14:30:55 Reading symbols from d:\Programs\TDM-GCC-64\gdb64\bin\crawl-bin\crawl.exe...(no debugging symbols found)...done. 14:31:05 thats what is bothering me 14:36:49 oh, symbols probably don;t work in windows either. and possibly os x. (-ggdb is not especially portable) 14:37:20 * geekosaur hates picking through the morass that is the Makefile... 14:39:36 (also debug symbols are themselves a mess on windows because microsoft does them one way (with no freely available documentation) so gcc and friends do them a different way (which is not what -ggdb means, that's actually something else) 14:42:07 yes, but I compile it in MSYS2 with mingw64 and it should work 14:42:23 but gdb won't pickup anything it seems, hmm 14:43:32 will try with different gdb 14:43:57 nope, no symbols :/ 14:46:31 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 14:50:26 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:53:17 oh, don't make install, it strips symbolds 14:53:28 you wan to do an in-place build for testing 14:56:39 .____. 14:56:45 doing it 14:57:06 i was thinking crawl is much faster to compile 14:57:18 daamn slow, on core i3 14:59:26 i suppose sword of jihad was probably overdue for a name change 15:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:25 it's come up before 15:02:07 geekosaur: ok, yes, it worked! symbols read 15:02:16 now i need to crash it ._. 15:04:05 406mb exe... 15:07:18 crash, done, lets see 15:09:40 -!- AreBrandon has joined ##crawl-dev 15:12:16 -!- Dark-Jedi has quit [Quit: If it breaks, you get to keep both backports.] 15:13:51 backtrace of random crashes at startup: http://pastebin.com/raw/AZjycT8q what do you think? 15:14:43 -!- matp has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19:38 -!- removeelyvilon has quit [Client Quit] 15:20:18 -!- removeelyvilon has joined ##crawl-dev 15:20:28 same: your crash is in the video driver, trying to load a texture from one of the startup splash screens 15:21:13 what you might check: when the crash does happen, is it always: #9 0x00000000009d4d00 in SDLWrapper::load_texture (this=0x186d4fd0, 15:21:14 tex=0x1e0f96a8, filename=0x1e057750 "title_pooryurik_knight.png", 15:21:29 that filename 15:21:46 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23:47 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:24:05 hmmmm 15:24:24 i see this name not the first time 15:24:43 i will open an issue 15:24:54 right, I am wondering if something about that PNG is tripping a bug in the ATI video driver 15:25:01 yeah 15:25:11 can I remove other pics and let it run this one only? 15:25:57 -!- removeelyvilon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:26:14 you'd also have to change TITLEIMGS in Makefile so that's the only one listed 15:26:47 (line 1162 ff.) 15:26:56 i have better idea :) 15:27:55 i will rename it to all of them 15:32:00 it is hot, investigating 15:33:35 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 15:35:19 LOL 15:35:24 yes it does 15:35:37 title_pooryurik_knight.png is a reason of crash 15:36:03 it is also the only one in 512x512px, while others are 412 or smth 15:38:18 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:38:20 -!- removeelyvilon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:43:27 resized it to 412px - no crash, funny 15:45:36 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 15:47:25 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:49:04 * geekosaur does quick search, finds that it's a known issue (notably, minecraft 512x512 textures also trigger it) 15:49:34 geekosaur: known issue in library itself? 15:49:48 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 15:50:19 oh, do you actually get an indication of what the crash is? 15:50:34 wasn't in your paste which is just backtraces 15:52:30 and what version of windows? 15:53:09 (basically, I am seeing a divide by zero crash in the ATI/AMD drivers for win8+, worked around by using an older win7 driver but that probably fails on win10) 15:53:15 radeon driver 15:53:53 geekosaur: yes, it is crash because exactly of this image 15:54:03 geekosaur: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10909 15:54:35 -!- feksclaus has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.7] 15:54:38 that doesn't answer whether it is the divide by zero crash 15:54:55 or some other cause (ie. if it's a GPF then it's not this issue) 15:55:31 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55:35 -!- Doesnty has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:55:50 exactly this file causes the issue, maybe someone will figure out why... resizing it to 416px solves the problem for me 15:57:34 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit] 15:58:13 title_pooryurik_knight.png causes crash at start up 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10909 by Fixer 16:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:25 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit] 16:03:20 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/413 * 0.20-a0-473-ge19e2c1: Implement the Ieoh Jian Council 10(5 days ago, 98 files, 1685+ 70-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e19e2c100c87 16:03:20 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/413 * 0.20-a0-492-gf8b81ac: Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/master' into council_god_rebase 10(5 days ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f8b81acfb531 16:03:20 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/413 * 0.20-a0-498-g7d44805: Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/master' into council_god_rebase 10(28 hours ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7d44805fdc1c 16:03:20 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/413 * 0.20-a0-499-g22aad41: Remove projection and simplify+refactor momentum 10(28 hours ago, 30 files, 61+ 379-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/22aad418a069 16:03:20 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/413 * 0.20-a0-507-gf5b44e2: Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/master' into council_god_rebase 10(8 hours ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f5b44e274a55 16:03:20 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/413 * 0.20-a0-508-g5038378: Remove all animated weapons 10(4 hours ago, 30 files, 33+ 266-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5038378e9490 16:03:20 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/413 * 0.20-a0-509-g3014e6c: Implement serpent's lash 10(3 hours ago, 9 files, 57+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3014e6c1966b 16:03:20 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/413 * 0.20-a0-510-g6427413: Rework momentum and Divine Blades 10(in the future, 13 files, 60+ 41-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/64274130649c 16:03:20 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-498-g7d44805: Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/master' into council_god_rebase 10(28 hours ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7d44805fdc1c 16:03:20 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-499-g22aad41: Remove projection and simplify+refactor momentum 10(28 hours ago, 30 files, 61+ 379-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/22aad418a069 16:03:20 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-507-gf5b44e2: Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/master' into council_god_rebase 10(8 hours ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f5b44e274a55 16:03:20 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-508-g5038378: Remove all animated weapons 10(4 hours ago, 30 files, 33+ 266-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5038378e9490 16:03:20 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-509-g3014e6c: Implement serpent's lash 10(3 hours ago, 9 files, 57+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3014e6c1966b 16:03:20 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/430 * 0.20-a0-510-g6427413: Rework momentum and Divine Blades 10(in the future, 13 files, 60+ 41-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/64274130649c 16:04:05 -!- aditya has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:06:51 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:08:19 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:08:33 -!- jorgrun has quit [Client Quit] 16:10:08 -!- sprort has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:11:10 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:13:09 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:16:04 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:51 -!- darkschneider has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:19:05 -!- darkschneider has joined ##crawl-dev 16:20:15 -!- dondy has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5] 16:27:17 -!- Guest87245 is now known as Basil 16:27:36 -!- feksclaus has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.7] 16:28:03 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 16:29:53 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:30:41 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit] 16:31:21 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 16:33:23 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit] 16:33:30 Christ, that's a lot of noise 16:33:33 sorry 16:33:52 nbd 16:34:04 looks like you rebased again? 16:34:18 kind of odd since you have all those merge commits 16:37:42 gammafunk: thanks for that mouse hover bugfix, it worked 16:37:45 np 16:38:07 was a silly bug that I introduced, just didn't sit down and understand the sdl event loop 16:38:26 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:36 -!- feksclaus has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.7] 16:38:41 i'm happy now, I also posted a new crash bug (discussed above) 16:40:28 is archeologist going to be hosted on cbro, or will i have to compile it to try it out? 16:40:32 or is anyone sure? 16:42:39 gammafunk: I accidentally pushed the changes to both branches 16:42:46 not a huge deal, just a bit noisy 16:43:16 I should close one of the two PR's, but I can't really 16:43:21 I can do that 16:43:24 one has the clean diff and the other is where the CBRO experimental is based 16:43:31 ah, hrm 16:43:37 I wonder though if that PR needs to stay open 16:43:41 I'd bet it doesn't 16:43:45 unless johnstein swapped it 16:43:50 It makes review easier I guess? 16:43:57 well closing PR 16:44:00 doesn't not delete it 16:44:06 Right, good point 16:44:37 SteelNeuron: actually, looking at those messages 16:44:38 so 430 is the current PR? 16:44:42 oh wait, are you guys actually talking about that? 16:44:48 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit] 16:44:55 oh I see, that's got a bunch merges but not the initial 16:45:12 oh, hrm 16:45:29 SteelNeuron: so you did do a force push to the in-play experimental, which is based on 413, right? 16:45:38 that could cause save compat issues for games on that experimental 16:45:45 in theory 16:45:57 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:46:12 which might mean in-progress IJC games crash? I'm not sure what the current playable branch is based on, branch-wise 16:47:00 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:47:10 It should be fine I think 16:47:17 I checked that my offline saves carried over fine 16:47:42 unless the experimental is somehow dependant on the Git tree being a certain way 16:47:56 But I guess it just builds the head and carries on saves as normal? 16:50:50 SteelNeuron: yeah, it might be fine, but are you aware of save compat in general? 16:51:10 for a god like this it might indeed be fine, but save transfer is definitely an issue you have to worry about generally 16:51:15 for things that get marshalled to save 16:51:36 This god has no marshalling, what else can cause save compat issues? 16:51:56 knowing that tags.cc is untouched 16:52:14 well touching tags.cc or not 16:52:23 -!- Doesnty has joined ##crawl-dev 16:52:28 is not the indicator of whether you changed something that is marshalled 16:52:42 example: add a prop to the player class 16:52:52 old save will not have any such prop marshalled 16:53:13 no code in tags.cc will be changed; you'll have added code to define the prop and use it 16:53:38 to handle this with save compat code, you'd add code to tags.cc to give it a reasonable default value 16:53:49 if you don't do this, the save loading causes a crash 16:54:00 but if you've not added the code, you won't see any changes in tags.cc 16:54:11 -!- mroovka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:54:27 but yeah probably you're fine in this case; just a general thing to think about 16:54:32 <|amethyst> or, if it's just one or two spots, you could update the code that uses the property to handle the case of a missing property 16:54:45 <|amethyst> rather than doing it in tags.cc 16:55:52 yeah, in some instances if you don't make proper save compat, the save can successfully load, but we get epic bugs in those loaded games because the loaded values get misinterpreted 16:57:38 johnstein: Do you need the old IJR PR to actually stay open in order to continue hosting the branch, or is it fine just pulling from SteelNeuron's (still existing) branch for it? I wanted to just close the old PR itself, since it's not used 16:57:54 <|amethyst> open vs closed shouldn't affect that one bit 16:57:59 ok 16:58:01 I'll do that 16:58:07 Sounds good :) 16:58:21 oh, uh 16:59:52 ok, close 413 16:59:54 *closed 17:00:05 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:41 SteelNeuron: another minor gripe, "Implement Serpent's Lash" commit doesn't mention what that thing is in the message 17:00:46 maybe you intend to rebase again 17:01:47 same with "Rework momentum and Divine Blades 17:01:48 " 17:02:19 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:02:30 -!- feksclaus has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.7] 17:02:51 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:27 gammafunk: going to try to point to the new PR tonight 17:03:44 johnstein: cool, I did close 413, but that shouldn't affect the hosted branch 17:03:46 kids wouldn't go to bed last night till late so I lost my window 17:08:10 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:09:09 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 17:10:57 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 17:15:10 -!- paulr has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:15:52 !update-goodplayers 17:15:54 Mapping goodplayers => 78291 bmfx elliptic hyperbolic jeanjacques clouded mikee crate pac bart pivotal stabwound johnnyzero minmay ophanim basil magistern hyperelliptic marvinpa surr nago walkerboh simm wahaha ebarrett ionfrigate mrplanck elynae reid dck sphara cheibrodos morganleah tenaya theglow yermak heteroy itsmu toastyp xyblor casmith789 sar uglything maddasher evilmike vizer araganzar rob e... 17:15:57 !update-greatplayers 17:16:00 Mapping greatplayers => 78291 hyperbolic stabwound xyblor elliptic pseudonut mikee itsmu nht casmith789 jaeger clouded marvinpa reid nyaakitty evilmike toastyp theglow ionfrigate valrus jeanjacques ebarrett surr elynae magistern pivotal crate bart ophanim pac jeremie eeviac absolutego ktgrey bmfx vizer yogaflame wahaha simm danharaj johnnyzero swiss hilariousdeathartist kryft basil n1000 sgrunt ac... 17:16:01 !update-greaterplayers 17:16:04 Mapping greaterplayers => 78291 hyperbolic elliptic mikee stabwound xyblor marvinpa pseudonut nyaakitty reid jeanjacques ionfrigate itsmu valrus magistern pivotal clouded pac bart absolutego ophanim crate vizer bmfx eeviac elynae ebarrett simm wahaha toastyp danharaj johnnyzero hilariousdeathartist kryft walkerboh basil dck surr ackack medar sgrunt minmay cheibrodos araganzar morganleah n1000 drke... 17:16:58 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 17:19:32 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:20:04 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Client Quit] 17:21:20 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 17:21:54 so much stupidity on the forum right now... what a mess 17:22:49 -!- bannakaf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:28:02 lesson to learn from this: Crawl's too easy. Need to ramp up difficulty until all trolls are dead or gone. 17:31:10 <|amethyst> dpeg: some of the frequent Tavern trolls are good players, so that wouldn't really work without making the game accessible to newbies :( 17:31:18 <|amethyst> s/access/inaccess/ 17:31:22 -!- mibert has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:32:42 |amethyst: those pricks are probably also resistant to dessicating all flavour out of the game? :) 17:33:03 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:33:30 <|amethyst> probably :) 17:34:21 -!- peeb has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:36:10 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:28 -!- Floodkiller has joined ##crawl-dev 17:38:47 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:44:04 -!- Ge0ff has quit [Client Quit] 17:45:47 FR: New Donald speech lines: "You're fired!" "You're a sad, sad rogue." 17:47:28 <|amethyst> dpeg: I will be forced to quote alexjurkiewicz's de-jihadification commit message 17:48:02 <|amethyst> "You're fired!" is a politically loaded phrase these days and Crawl doesn't have any intention of commenting on the real world. 17:50:31 <|amethyst> Also, I find Donald to be a likeable, if somewhat clueless, character 17:51:37 I wouldn't mind it if we removed the beogh water walking thing 17:51:37 for the same reasons 17:51:53 it's also a pretty low-impact ability 17:51:56 <|amethyst> IMO Zin is much worse than that 17:52:05 that may be true, but they're both quite bad 17:52:20 I mean, I'm not sure Zin is really something you can tie to christianity 17:52:27 <|amethyst> judaism 17:52:31 but afaik water walking is specifically a christianity thing 17:52:31 zin is generic old lawful god 17:52:48 |amethyst: well what about Zin is truly an overt reference to judaism? 17:52:53 I was involved with these gods, and I tried to split various aspects of Christianity (of which there are plenty) onto E1ZB. 17:53:02 water walking seems definitely a reference to jesus 17:53:10 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:53:20 It is. 17:53:22 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I don't think it's overt, but the gold thing feels ickily antisemitic 17:53:31 |amethyst: what?? 17:53:34 |amethyst: hrm, well then so does gozag? 17:53:35 this is the tithe 17:53:40 it's a tithe 17:53:50 <|amethyst> yes, but 17:53:53 gammafunk: sorry, I'll probably rebase again, didn't think of it! Or squash some commits 17:53:55 seems to a not really a direct reference to me, not that I'm well-versed in judaism 17:54:10 in the medieval ages, everone had to pay 10% of everything to the Church 17:54:11 SteelNeuron: great, yeah just nice to have a desc. of what those things do without reading the commit 17:54:26 <|amethyst> I don't think it's a direct reference, and it's probably not intentional (as pointed out, it's specifically a reference to the Christian tithe) 17:54:38 the cool Zin speech is courtesy of Eronarn's, and that's clearly Old Testament inspired 17:54:53 yeah that is a somewhat direct reference as well, the speech 17:55:02 |amethyst: for the record, I am absolutely against changing something because someone *could* be offended 17:55:10 with "Jihad", things were different 17:55:15 dpeg: well that's precisely what we did with Jihad 17:55:20 exactly 17:55:31 exactly? 17:55:35 but you just said you're against doing that 17:55:47 erm, the other way around 17:55:47 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I think dpeg's saying that people actually were offended 17:55:53 <|amethyst> or maybe not? 17:56:04 -!- matp has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:12 right, someone actually complained, but I've heard people complain about various christian-like things 17:56:16 I mean even |amethyst did just now 17:56:48 <|amethyst> I don't really think Zin *should* be changed, but wouldn't be terribly upset if it happened 17:56:58 with Jihad, we are using a term that's not ours (I assume we have no-one from Muslim faith or at least descendence in the team)... but I can definitely explain the tithe, and the water walking, and if someone is offended by that, I can shrug it off because I know what I am talking about -- also these have no political meanings (anymore) 17:57:14 Jihad is definitely more a hot-button thing than these, but the concept is the same, and it's a bit unfair to say "we fix this because of politics but not that" 17:57:47 I think if someone proposes a change, regardless of the reasons why, and nobody is adverse to implementing/agreeing to merge it, then why not? 17:57:54 yeah 17:57:59 I look at it from the same angle as removing High Elves 17:57:59 Floodkiller: yes, good policy, as always :) 17:58:22 if someone wanted to rework zin flavor that could be a good project 17:58:25 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:58:29 it's a heck of a lot more work though 17:58:47 maybe I can think about beogh water walking, since that's a smaller thing to change 17:58:48 for a related example: I was annoyed by the old unique Adolf, and I complained so long until Haran (who wasn't offended!) renamed him to Frederick 17:59:00 -!- AutoMonky has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:59:16 gammafunk: I love Beogh water walking, and I know players who laughed (not lol-ed) when they got it for the first time 17:59:25 dpeg: same can be said for Jihad 17:59:38 well, the difference is that with water walking some dev would complain! 17:59:40 I don't think the issue is whether people laughed at it or just liked it 17:59:47 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:54 yeah, but this dev is complaining 18:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:13 I was never offended by Jozef, however. And then Adam pointed out that this is probably a reference to Stalin, which offended him. So Jozef got the works. 18:00:39 it's not like our standard for a change is "does dpeg complain" 18:00:59 (or "does gamamfunk complain"), but I think what Floodkiller said is a good summary 18:01:29 Floodkiller: I think if someone proposes a change [...] and nobody is adverse [...], then why not? 18:02:20 hey what if butchering was removed 18:02:34 jpeg and I thought a bit about how to convey the idea that you're now the messiah of the orcs, and we thought of Nethack-style crowning, or an actual crown, and then we found that water walking expresses all of this in a neater and cuter way 18:02:38 -!- Yewbacca is now known as Yew[playing] 18:02:45 Doesnty: yes :( 18:03:15 well that's nice, but again I think it's a similar concept with Jihad, like we don't need to wholesale remove all direct religious references now, but it's something to consider as a direction 18:03:20 <|amethyst> auto_butcher = true auto_eat_chunks = true gets you most of the way there, but can cause problems with Fedhas 18:03:44 i had a conversation with a friend who doesn't play crawl recently 18:03:46 <|amethyst> beware the Sharnga cost! 18:03:47 |amethyst: I guess Doesnty is referring to the patch he wrote the other day 18:03:54 and talked about that patch i wrote 18:04:00 <|amethyst> ah, I didn't see the patch 18:04:06 it was really weird explaining that i played a game where you had to butcher monsters to eat them 18:04:09 <|amethyst> that's "leave both corpses and chunks" 18:04:16 |amethyst: yes 18:04:58 Doesnty: I will lobby for this some more. I think that's a reasonably simplification for now. Getting rid of a common command, what's not to like? 18:05:13 thank you 18:07:43 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 18:08:09 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.20-a0-502-g555d78b (34) 18:09:51 <|amethyst> the only thing I see as an actual problem (as opposed to "doesn't go far enough" and flavour concerns) is that it means more piles 18:10:24 <|amethyst> that's minor, but it does mean the default greedy autoexplore will have walk over every corpse 18:10:43 <|amethyst> every corpse with edible chunks, that is 18:11:36 how does vampire blood work with this? 18:11:44 <|amethyst> that could probably be solved by always revealing corpses in piles (and putting them on the bottom), but that might have knock-on effects 18:12:14 <|amethyst> gammafunk: vampires get blood instead of chunks: "I hate it but leaving bottling around would be silly." https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10899 18:12:32 -!- jefus- has joined ##crawl-dev 18:12:32 yeah it's some pretty clunky flavor, for sure 18:13:40 dpeg: another thing to think about re Jihad is, if we did have a developer of middle-eastern background (either muslim or not) who did add this reference, it wouldn't make any difference as to whether this offends other muslims 18:13:57 -!- Undo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:14:38 |amethyst: my proposal was that a monster produces either chunk or corpse, to reduce the number of additional piles 18:14:39 us simply 'knowing' what we're referencing doesn't prevent it from offending people who actually worship the thing we reference 18:14:51 gammafunk: yes, but it helps 18:15:11 I mean it theoretically does, but it doesn't prevent said offense 18:15:30 a whole bunch of people could be righteously offended by the core gameplay of Crawl, and I say we shouldn't care if they speak up 18:15:54 well we made this change for exactly this reason 18:16:24 no, we made the change because *we* were not happy with Jihad, that's the crucial point to me! 18:16:27 -!- jeefus has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:16:42 both we and players were not happy, yes 18:16:51 that's why I told the stories about Adolf and Jozef upthread 18:17:07 but clearly this would not have been changed if a player had not complained 18:17:23 it's true that a player pointed it out, but it resonated with us 18:17:23 and believe me, players complain about the christian references as well 18:17:28 but doesn't resonate with me 18:17:35 and the christian/judaism thing resonates with me (and some other devs) 18:17:52 <|amethyst> people also complain about the idolatry 18:18:11 man, they will just love altar desecration in the name of the falled god 18:18:13 -!- Kranix has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:18:14 <|amethyst> which can't be solved without removing or completely retheming religion 18:18:46 right it can be a very slippery slope, and I agree there should be some dev impetus (but if it's there we should allow it!) 18:19:16 to me, Jihad is icky on the level of Adolf (Hitler) and Jozef (Stalin, after Adam made the connection for me)... We should not even try to make Crawl a happy playground for everyone, because then nothing would be left. 18:19:40 well beogh is a racist god of mass-murders and has a direct christian reference 18:19:43 if it's more complicated of a problem than just a ctrl+f change, then obviously there would be discussion about it 18:19:43 that's pretty icky to me 18:19:56 gammafunk: yes, and Christianity has displayed exactly such traits 18:20:03 uh? 18:20:06 <|amethyst> ... 18:20:06 Beogh is my reference to that part of the Christian past 18:20:08 o.o 18:20:34 this channel needs a history lesson? 18:20:40 I think that's extremely hypocritical 18:21:06 <|amethyst> dpeg: do you really want people coming here giving us history lessons on how Islam is violent and expansionist 18:21:14 Karl Martell, the hammer of the muslims? 18:21:38 Malleus malleficarum, the hammer of the witches? 18:21:47 every other anti-semitic progrome in the dark ages? 18:21:59 Christianity has other traits too, for that we have Elyvilon 18:22:13 <|amethyst> So is Christianity the only religion we're allowed to malign? 18:22:33 it is the only one *I* can malign, yes 18:22:33 <|amethyst> but I thought you were an atheist? 18:22:34 I had no problems with maligning anything, but I cannot do it 18:22:52 |amethyst: I know a thing or two about the history of Europe and its religions 18:22:53 -!- jefus- is now known as jefus 18:23:13 the point is we're not using crawl as a platform for relgious/cultural criticism 18:23:36 -!- firemonkey has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:23:47 I was behind the flavour of Ely, Beogh and, lesser so, Zin and TSO; I could write a report about what's going on there and how they were informed by the history of Christianity 18:24:03 gammafunk: I made Gozag as a parable on capitalism 18:24:09 (do say parable?) 18:24:27 Crawl is a game, hence part of art 18:25:09 sorry, I will not buy the "crawl can make fun of a religion specifically if it's christianity"; there's no place for that in the game imo 18:25:16 it doesn't exist in empty space, all the fantasy blurb nonwithstanding 18:25:37 but in the end people can compromise, and suggest changes for any patch that gets made (and I don't have one right now anyhow) 18:25:52 I didn't make any of these gods to make jokes on Christianity 18:26:28 (admittedly, the water walking *is* a joke, but I've actually talked to Christians about and they could laugh, too... if you're offended by this, then you probably got bigger worries than a video game) 18:26:51 I was inspired by existing religion (history of religion, rather). 18:26:54 christianity is very fractured 18:27:00 absolutely 18:27:16 I believe several forum posters informed that muslim tavern poster the same way 18:27:18 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:27:26 which makes it pretty easy for me to look at beogh and not get offended at all 18:27:42 Doesnty: thank you :) 18:28:05 <|amethyst> most religions are rather fractured 18:28:08 right 18:28:13 gammafunk: yes, I believe that. My point is that the poster was only the messenger. He pointed out that Jihad might by icky. We actually agreed, but that was our decision. 18:28:41 dpeg all I have to do is sneak the patch in on a rainy day, when you're away 18:28:43 boom, it's done 18:28:51 then you'll have to yell at me via pm 18:28:54 I can take another angry german 18:28:57 * dpeg will throw a tantrum first, and then bolts at you! 18:29:24 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:29:29 <|amethyst> nice zeugma 18:29:42 but yeah, re that chunk thing, I guess it's a nice simplification, but the flavor sure does feel clunky 18:30:02 it probably should be corpse or chunks in hindsight 18:30:04 <|amethyst> I think the flavour problems could be fixed by going further 18:30:09 gammafunk: do you think it's worth trying to salvage the patch, by doing something about the flavour? 18:30:12 <|amethyst> and just granting nutrition on kills 18:30:16 heh 18:30:16 <|amethyst> but that would take some tuning 18:30:28 uh oh, opening the door wide open for food removal! 18:30:50 <|amethyst> I'm working on a branch to remove most food 18:30:56 oh, nice 18:30:58 <|amethyst> everything except "chunks" and "food" 18:30:59 yes, nice 18:31:12 how would that work? 18:31:17 just one ration type? 18:31:39 <|amethyst> yeah, and herb/carn get permafood nutrition multipliers to reflect the current balance 18:32:15 <|amethyst> I think Fedhas is the only thing that would really need to be tuned 18:32:28 <|amethyst> that and maybe the amount of nutrition in a single unit 18:32:51 -!- coledot has joined ##crawl-dev 18:33:04 oh, i have a similar patch ready-ish that doesn't go quite that far (meat ration, bread ration, fruit, royal jelly) 18:33:08 <|amethyst> the pain will be dealing with all the food vaults 18:33:11 might be good in the meantime anyway 18:33:39 since yeah, vaults were pretty easy for that and doesn't really have many other knock-on effects 18:33:52 <|amethyst> MarvinPA_: sure, I don't get a lot of time/brain-bandwidth to work on it so don't let me hold you up 18:34:27 oh wow, actually removing pizza? 18:34:40 the flavor cost is too high! 18:34:44 <|amethyst> let me push the part that's actually finished (to a branch) 18:35:17 I recall when I tried to remove pizza last time (some years ago), and devs we thought to be vanished from the earth resurfaced and said: "No. Needs pizza." 18:35:47 I would rather lose the royal jelly pun over pizza 18:35:54 i mentally flipped a coin between pizza/royal jelly but i prefer the royal jelly's silly joke to pizza's silly joke so coincidentally it landed on royal jelly getting to stay 18:36:01 for me it's the other way around, Floodkiller 18:36:10 MarvinPA_: you are my man! 18:36:18 but pan pizza!!! 18:36:23 New branch created: food-time (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/food-time 18:36:23 03|amethyst02 07[food-time] * 0.20-a0-503-gab348cb: Make all food take 1 turn to eat. 10(13 days ago, 5 files, 30+ 60-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ab348cbbefed 18:36:23 03|amethyst02 07[food-time] * 0.20-a0-504-g5afffc8: Remove EatDelay. 10(12 days ago, 4 files, 43+ 117-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5afffc8e4d0b 18:36:30 pizza is not really that funny 18:36:48 Floodkiller: I've invested a bit into Slime, but nothing into Pan, so I am hopelessly biased. 18:36:49 oh haha, i did that bit too 18:36:55 <|amethyst> MarvinPA_: nice :) 18:37:00 honestly, just do what Rogue does and turn one of the items into a rcfile renamable food 18:37:08 default to royal jelly or pizza 18:37:08 can check yours to see what i missed out, probably :P 18:37:33 it could be cool to allow that, yeah 18:37:40 since we do now have one non-fruit type 18:37:52 that's not a ration, I guess 18:38:04 guess it needs a generic description 18:38:09 to fit no matter the name 18:38:09 otoh without all the special pizza mesages it's not so interesting maybe 18:38:10 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:38:26 clearly allow creating a list of random types 18:38:30 <|amethyst> make it something that can be vault-renamed 18:38:36 <|amethyst> but it loses its identity if stacked 18:38:40 <|amethyst> kind of like fruit tiles 18:39:02 these sound like excellent ways to aggravate MPA 18:39:14 gonna put them on my list 18:39:34 tbh it will be hard to ever top what nicolae did with alpha shops 18:39:36 "An unknown, edible object. It looks absolutely delicious!" 18:41:39 MarvinPA_: btw, do you do the forum pruning? Whoever it is: good job (and an exhausting one, I assume). 18:42:05 <|amethyst> MarvinPA_: hm, btw, looking over this, maybe we should have a function dec_item_quantity(item_def &it, int n) that does the if (in_inventory(food)) dec_inv_item_quantity else dec_mitm_item_quantity 18:42:09 some of it yeah, i think Lasty did a chunk too 18:42:20 <|amethyst> MarvinPA_: since I bet that shows up in several places 18:43:00 MPA, Lasty, archaeo, njvack, and I are the active mods 18:43:17 and_into was back for a while but seems gone again, and njvack isn't around too much these days, but it around 18:43:28 MarvinPA_: good stuff. I cannot post there anymore, the stupidity is too much for me. I think the "Rewrite Crawl" thread broke my forum energy 18:45:49 tavern doesn't work so hot if you really like hashing it out in heated debates 18:45:54 you have to use "soft eyes" 18:46:48 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 18:48:34 not my forte 18:53:20 -!- scummos__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:10 -!- Barfbag has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:56:44 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:50 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:07:31 -!- HarryHood has joined ##crawl-dev 19:10:57 -!- apexlion has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:11:55 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:15:04 <|amethyst> you should try it, soft eyes are easier to gouge out when you see something you didn't want to see 19:15:23 you need soft eyesockets 19:15:55 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:00 -!- Piginabag has joined ##crawl-dev 19:16:30 Can anyone help me with password recovery 19:16:30 Piginabag: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 19:16:41 |amethyst: with my Old Testament mind set of Eternal Vengeance, I really have problems with soft eyes. Fun fact: in Germany we have a thing called "Softeis", pronounced "soft ice" :) 19:16:43 <|amethyst> Piginabag: which server? 19:17:07 Berotato. Its my friends account. Let me get him on. Thanks 19:17:15 !messages 19:17:15 (1/1) koboldina said (30w 22h 36m 56s ago): ping me if you are still alive, have not seen you in forever 19:17:28 <|amethyst> Piginabag: I can't help with cbro, but maybe johnstein is around? 19:19:11 <|amethyst> dpeg: presumably the "soft" is an English loan? 19:19:35 Is johnstein the man to ask? 19:19:39 <|amethyst> yes 19:19:43 yes, it really should be "Weicheis" <3 19:21:58 Alright. I'll keep an eye out for him, thanks - does he frequent this channel 19:22:32 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 19:22:33 <|amethyst> yes 19:22:33 The build passed. (food-time - 5afffc8 #7588 : Neil Moore): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/193562217 19:22:34 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 19:22:44 <|amethyst> probably you could private message him on tavern? 19:22:53 <|amethyst> he'd need to know the account name obviously 19:23:30 I'll try messaging him 19:23:32 <|amethyst> usual procedure on our end is to reset it and send the new one to the email address associated with the account 19:23:54 <|amethyst> "it" and "one" = "password" 19:29:19 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:34:09 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507]] 19:34:41 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 19:41:49 Piginabag: if you email me from the email account associated with the username's can email a new password back 19:42:11 err what |amethyst said. oops 19:43:49 but I usually wait till I receive an email before resetting. I've had a couple situations where a player swore they had an account at cbro but the email account wasn't theirs. and they finally remembered that they actually didn't register on cbro 19:45:48 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:47:06 -!- Fixer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:49:08 -!- HarryHood has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:49:44 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:51:29 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:51:36 <|amethyst> johnstein: haha, good point 19:52:17 one guy was pretty put out that I didn't believe him 19:52:33 ended up in his case that it was his account. 19:52:45 I think he forgot the old email address 19:52:59 but I made him email me from that one 19:53:17 <|amethyst> yeah, it's a problem when you don't remember which email you associated with the account 19:53:19 -!- sooheon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:59:15 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04:15 -!- hellmonk has joined ##crawl-dev 20:04:55 -!- jbenedet1o has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:08:27 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 20:10:10 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 20:14:55 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:15:33 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:18:00 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:18:40 -!- exant has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:22:04 -!- adelrune has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:23:06 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:27:20 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 20:30:52 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 20:32:22 -!- Basil is now known as Guest50083 20:34:01 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:24 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:36:23 -!- feksclaus has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.7] 20:42:52 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:48:45 -!- pdxCrawler has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:50:22 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:08 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507]] 20:58:42 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 21:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:26 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 21:08:00 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:09:49 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:12:32 -!- adibis has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:13:31 -!- nikheizen has joined ##crawl-dev 21:14:03 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:14:17 -!- ZugAddict has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:16:34 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:16:49 -!- ebering_ is now known as ebering 21:16:54 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:20:29 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:26:44 -!- Quilel has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 21:32:34 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 21:32:51 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:15 -!- whipmegood has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:34:35 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:38:00 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 21:45:48 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 21:47:28 -!- Boatshow has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:48:36 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 21:54:05 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:47 -!- adibis has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.6] 22:07:55 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 22:08:05 MR +++++ ++ 22:08:11 good monster 22:11:25 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:13:43 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:13:50 -!- uelen has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:29 -!- AreBrandon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:03 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:38:02 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:43:54 03Floodkiller02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/426 * 0.20-a0-446-g8c782ba: Adjust base attributes, add Strong Nose mutation. 10(9 minutes ago, 7 files, 40+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8c782ba5ec87 22:52:42 Floodkiller: base Cy attributes 22:53:03 also kind of nice to split those two commits up if you can 22:53:08 I presume you know about git add -p 22:53:10 to help with that 22:53:30 let you selectively state so you can commit just what you want, then do another git add for the rest 22:53:38 ah, okay 22:53:57 I'll remember that for the future 22:54:18 git add -p, stage some things, then git commit those, repeat, yeah 22:55:04 -!- laj1 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:56:37 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 22:58:09 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 22:59:13 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:00 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 23:10:52 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:18:02 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:30:40 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 23:31:40 -!- Taraiph has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:42 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:21 -!- firemonkey has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:37:26 -!- adelrune has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:38:58 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:49:33 TIL "yiff" is a common substring in crawl's name generator 23:51:15 does it ever generate yacc 23:51:36 -!- miek_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:51:37 also is 'yiff' some furry thing 23:51:47 yes 23:51:53 to the latter 23:51:54 supposedly it resembles the sound that mating arctic foxes make 23:52:24 www.dobrazupa.org/morgue/MoogleDan/morgue-MoogleDan-20120924-220513.lst: the cursed -4 chain mail of Qaesku Cyiff 23:52:40 www.dobrazupa.org/morgue/Snack/morgue-Snack-20130325-010144.txt: 23788 | Orc:4 | Bought a scroll labeled SISIKY SKYIFFODOE for 27 gold pieces 23:53:11 and two different people in different games managed to both find Mnyiff's Distillery 23:53:18 many more examples but I'll leave it at that 23:54:10 someone pointed out that the Cy species apparently got a -4 exp apt? 23:54:11 and I go 23:54:12 I go 23:54:14 "that's ruff" 23:54:17 ahahahahaahahahahahaha 23:54:36 gottem 23:54:39 -4 exp apt seems insanely low 23:54:44 considering Dg has -2 23:54:51 and everything else is -1 or higher 23:59:54 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-502-g555d78b (34)