00:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:55 -!- gressup has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:03:01 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-470-gbb038bd (34) 00:08:43 -!- Blazinghbnd has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:18:10 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:24:35 -!- circsquare has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:33:38 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 00:36:20 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 00:37:22 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 00:44:13 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:45:52 -!- stabmebro has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:11 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507]] 01:19:05 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-470-gbb038bd (34) 01:30:09 -!- bgiannan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:35:07 -!- bgiannan1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:36:35 -!- flappity has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:38:08 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 01:40:09 !tell PleasingFungus I missed it when you originally said it, but the first time I found Morg I assumed it was just a randart till I gave it a closer look. I knew Spriggan Knife was an unrand though. =P 01:40:10 ProzacElf: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 01:40:19 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:56:36 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-470-gbb038bd 02:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:11 -!- coledot has quit [Quit: coledot] 02:02:20 -!- destroythecore has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:12:06 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:24:26 -!- neunon has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 02:27:28 -!- Rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 02:27:34 -!- Blazinghbnd has joined ##crawl-dev 02:27:44 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 02:28:42 -!- atrodo has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:29:09 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 02:29:34 -!- Smello has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:30:01 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:30:02 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:30:03 -!- illusion-znc has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:30:28 -!- omarax has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:30:28 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:30:28 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:30:29 -!- Rast has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:30:29 -!- Svitkona has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:31:32 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 02:32:10 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 02:32:20 -!- Barfbag has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:35:01 -!- GauHelldragon2 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:37:00 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 02:37:32 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 02:39:18 -!- G-Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:39:33 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:41:21 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 02:52:28 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-470-gbb038bd 02:54:06 -!- saty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:55:03 -!- Hobbes has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:56:05 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 02:57:01 -!- Smello has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:57:02 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 02:57:25 -!- sneakyness has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 02:57:55 -!- atrodo has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:58:12 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:58:22 -!- illusion-znc has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:58:49 -!- Svitkona has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:40 -!- Hampooj has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:03:49 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 03:04:32 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 03:04:50 -!- Dixie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:07:22 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:11:24 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 03:12:13 -!- Taraiph has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:12:54 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 03:13:06 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-470-gbb038bd (34) 03:19:39 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 03:20:25 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:31:00 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:34:39 gammafunk: is there a way to calculate % of fear success against an enemies MR ? 03:35:31 droogie: I guess not 03:35:41 in a sticky situation with a caustic shrike 03:35:43 it's not single-target, right? 03:35:49 oh, do you mean the scroll? 03:35:55 @??caustic shrike 03:35:55 caustic shrike (09b) | Spd: 20 | HD: 18 | HP: 86-126 | AC/EV: 8/18 | Dam: 3608(acid:7d3) | see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(80), 05fire, 02cold, 08blind | XP: 4621 | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 03:35:57 and trying to figure out if we're better off HW or Fear , then sahdow form? not sure 03:36:11 i have 23 HP, Corr -12... 03:36:13 -!- bgiannan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:36:18 the scroll is fairly unlikely to work 03:36:20 ??scroll of fear 03:36:20 scroll of fear[1/5]: Scares monsters away from your current position, with a chance to save based on MR. Only affects living, non-berserk monsters. They can still use ranged attack while fleeing. Also a level 4 hexes spell "Cause Fear" with similar effect (same as the scroll at 134 power and above). 03:36:28 ??scroll of fear[2 03:36:29 scroll of fear[2/5]: Very useful if you're trying to run away from something living that matches or exceeds your speed. 03:36:31 ??scroll of fear[3 03:36:31 scroll of fear[3/5]: i read a scroll of fear and it was running away but it was still shooting me with barbs why because that's what fear does isnt it great 03:36:47 but 80 is enough to have a fairly good chance of resisting 03:37:08 hm, damn 03:37:14 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 03:37:16 then for HW, i would need to hope that it gets a low damage roll 03:37:20 and i get high heal roll 03:37:24 then like.. idk 03:37:35 mind lookign at this and seeing if there's a different option we haven't thought of ? 03:38:22 so 134 - 80 = 54 03:38:52 hrm, not sure if this is accurate 03:38:54 @??acid blob 03:38:54 acid blob (11J) | Spd: 12 | HD: 18 | HP: 75-117 | AC/EV: 1/3 | Dam: 4208(acid:7d3) | 04eats doors, see invisible, unbreathing | Res: 06magic(160), 03poison, 08acid+++, 08blind, 12drown | XP: 2411 | Sp: spit acid (3d7) [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: small | Int: brainless. 03:39:00 ah, those have way more 03:40:32 -!- bgiannan1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:40:54 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:42:30 -!- jefus- has joined ##crawl-dev 03:42:32 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:42:48 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 03:44:39 gammafunk: what does that result of 54 represent ? 03:44:49 also, someone mentioned that scrolls are at power of 200 verses spell at 134 ? 03:45:33 I'm not sure if that's accurate 03:45:43 or rather I'm not sure what the finall success is 03:45:52 based on the difference of spell power and monster MR 03:46:07 leaning toward maybe 03:46:21 HW, hope to survive that, then shadow form to get 50% dmg reduction 03:46:27 then... idk 03:46:40 -!- jeefus has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:49:04 !messages 03:49:04 No messages for SteelNeuron. 03:53:34 -!- Lasty_1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:54:37 -!- Lasty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:54:37 -!- FunkyBomb has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00:55 -!- saty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:15:10 &watch droogie 04:15:11 http://crawl.berotato.org:8080/#watch-droogie 04:15:34 situation over i guess 04:15:48 !lg droogie 04:15:49 1798. droogie the Vexing (L4 VpEn), mangled by a gnoll (a +0 club) on D:1 on 2017-01-12 07:12:02, with 74 points after 4427 turns and 0:05:59. 04:15:54 !lm droogie alive 04:15:55 53. [2017-01-13 09:13:18] droogie the Spry (L24 VpEn of Dithmenos) left the Depths on turn 126253. (Depths:1) 04:16:21 Pekkekk: chat has saved my life more times than i can count 04:16:22 ??tiles chat 04:16:23 tiles chat ~ tileschat[1/1]: a good argument for adding the ability to kick spectators 04:16:42 !learn add tileschat chat has saved my life more times than i can count 04:16:42 tileschat[2/2]: chat has saved my life more times than i can count 04:30:32 -!- sooheon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:30:56 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:33:06 -!- yeeve has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:36:32 -!- Tiltorax has joined ##crawl-dev 04:36:33 -!- Yxhuvud has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:38:04 -!- Tiltorax has quit [Client Quit] 04:39:04 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 04:42:14 -!- rhovland has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:44:09 zxc has never been to tiles chat 04:44:32 has heard of it second-hand though 04:46:54 -!- Blazinghbnd has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:48:14 -!- Ratatosk_ has quit [Quit: Ratatosk_] 04:49:00 -!- saty_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:57:59 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:58:24 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:16 -!- bgiannan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:02:20 gammafunk: Has there been a serious discussion on wand stacking that I can read somewhere? 05:02:45 I've heard it mentioned on the forums with some support behind it, but I haven't heard dev opinions on it 05:02:51 not to my knowledge, not since the recent set of changes 05:02:54 And since wands are being heavily reworked now... 05:03:22 Can you think of any reason why they shouldn't be treated as any other ammunition item? 05:03:47 (with some flavour behind it, i.e. "coalescing" the power of one wand into another) 05:04:22 there's definitely an issue with scrolls of recharging still existing 05:05:45 you might want to ask MarvinPA if he has any issues with it, since he's the one who did the recent batch of changes 05:07:04 another possible issue with wand stacking is wand unstacking 05:07:37 say i have 60 charges of confuse monster stacked up 05:07:55 i want to bring some of them with me to pan, but not all of them 05:08:02 in case i need to drop the wand 05:09:41 yeah, probably the item naming system would allow you to do that 05:09:54 in a kind of tedious way, but this is also kind of a rare use case 05:11:00 although never mind, that won't help with "unstacking" at all 05:11:22 Hmmm 05:11:24 since you'd have no way to get those charges into another wand (or indeed any way to make another wand) 05:11:28 Interesting point Rast 05:11:36 but I think honestly it's more 05:11:44 "make a decision of what you most want to carry" 05:11:54 if you decide that wand of confusion isn't worth the inventory space 05:12:04 that's why we have inventory limits, to force some decisions like these 05:12:06 What would the problem be with Scrolls of Recharging? 05:12:17 Other than the fact that they would always be fully efficient 05:12:29 their existence feels pretty redundant with all this streamlining 05:12:32 remove scroll of recharging? 05:12:33 -!- Dix has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:12:35 yes 05:12:43 I still think recharging would work 05:12:54 you get to choose which of your wands requires more charges 05:13:04 that can be an interesting choice 05:13:15 including delaying that choice until the moment of needing one wand in particular 05:14:09 it's not a terribly interesting one, and it could help balance some of the top tier wands in general 05:14:24 but anyhow, it's defintely a thing that will be considered 05:15:20 newpakellas will have so much more flavor when we remove ?recharging 05:15:38 this is MPA's dream... 05:15:41 :) 05:15:51 I think wand stacking would actually get me to use the lower tier wands more 05:16:16 hrm, I don't think it would for me 05:16:19 I generally drop them early because of all the inventory mess 05:16:30 if I thought of them more like stones, I think I would be more inclined to use them 05:16:36 you are probably underitilizing them 05:16:38 by a lot 05:16:48 people do that frequently, underuse wands 05:17:10 the fact that you can stack them shouldn't really change using them in appropriate situations 05:18:15 -!- sooheon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:19:52 absolutely, it's just a psychological thing 05:19:54 -!- bgiannan1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:20:14 Big numbers say "use me" :) 05:20:41 while a bunch of half-identified wands clogging up my inventory just make me want to forget the whole thing! 05:22:01 sounds like you don't win many games of crawl 05:23:25 I'm all for making inventory management streamlined, but remember we don't design the game to reward people playing poorly or to assume that they will 05:23:54 so displaying large numbers isn't an aim we have; it's more removing non-decisions, tedious management without gameplay impact etc 05:24:50 that said it's an iterative, imperfect process, and wand stacking may work 05:25:21 one issue is identification, actually, since currently you have to expend an ID scroll to see charges of wands you know the type of 05:26:57 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 05:27:00 this was specifically put in as further use of identify, and I id wants a fair amount; stacking wands would probably lead that that id usage being removed 05:29:03 *lead to that 05:33:31 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:33:34 gammafunk: Yeah, my last argument is a bit poor 05:34:27 my preference is seperate wand inventory 05:34:32 gammafunk: I think my biggest issue with non-stacking wands is that it's just messy. Optimal play requires you to think about it disproportionately to the benefit it provides 05:34:33 -!- Yxhuvud has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:35:00 "should I pick up or ignore this wand?" Is a thought that you have much more often than it deserves 05:35:18 I think it should only happen for wand categories, not individual wands 05:35:18 (at most) 26 wand types in crawl, on their own set of inventory letters a-z. so you would never need to drop a wand 05:35:21 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 05:35:41 Like... "Do I need to have confusion, or should I instead carry enslavement"? 05:35:53 spoiler: enslavement 05:36:03 Just picked an example at random ;) 05:36:11 we're not all into bondage, Rast- 05:36:24 pikel please 05:36:39 yeah, wand stacking would remove a lot of the more tedious swapping of items 05:37:15 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:37:15 just to pick up some more scattershot charges and the like, I mean 05:40:34 !seen kdrnic 05:40:35 I last saw kdrnic at Thu Dec 22 13:37:20 2016 UTC (3w 21h 3m 14s ago) parting ##crawl-dev, saying 'chanpart'. 05:40:42 !gamesby kdrnic 05:40:42 No games for kdrnic. 05:48:32 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:52:11 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 05:52:30 -!- Insomniak has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 05:56:08 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:56:08 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:56:27 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:56:38 -!- Pinkbeas1 has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:01:30 gammafunk: remove confusion? 06:01:35 para exists 06:01:39 and enslave 06:02:13 I'd rather have tukima's dancing wand 06:02:24 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:03:57 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 06:06:02 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:06:03 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:11:11 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:12:10 -!- sooheon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:19:12 Or wand of flash 06:19:20 brief distraction to all monsters in LOS 06:19:25 slight chance of blind 06:37:01 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 06:38:33 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 06:45:53 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:45:53 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:51:54 -!- saty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:52:08 -!- bencryption has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 07:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:35 -!- sooheon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:18:52 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 07:32:43 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:48:13 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 07:52:24 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:02 -!- sooheon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:07:58 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:12:22 -!- feksclaus has quit [Client Quit] 08:12:51 !tell pleasingfungus imo morg and spriggans knife are sort of cute, although i guess i wouldn't miss them that much. i do have fond memories of morg because of this extremely good bug: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2360 08:12:52 MarvinPA_: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 08:13:30 !tell pleasingfungus which caused morg to almost always generate in cdo games (and salamander hide armour to almost always generate on cao) 08:13:30 MarvinPA_: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 08:18:08 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:18:39 -!- darkschneider has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:18:59 -!- darkschneider has joined ##crawl-dev 08:29:12 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 08:30:19 Hi MarvinPA_ ! 08:30:31 I've read your reply to dpeg at CRD 08:30:47 Is there any direction in particular you'd suggest to simplify the god? 08:32:56 i think last i looked the interactions between all the moves were still fairly complex and interdependent, especially lunge and its bonus damage 08:33:47 the main other thing was just wanting to get around to properly looking over the code generally, since it's been so heavily reworked a bunch that seems worth doing 08:34:52 that's the bigger thing imo, definitely not against it being tried in trunk in the near future 08:43:10 MarvinPA_: Cool :) I will make any back end changes necessary 08:43:24 Including rebasing, it's not a problem. I need the squash practice anyway 08:44:05 I can remove the second order interaction with lunge (i.e. the particular bonus when the target is both distracted AND slowed) 08:44:42 but I think in a general sense, the damage bonus for lunge is necessary 08:51:51 I just read your conversation about the god last night (and coincidentally, learned that there is such a thing as chat logs. God, I'm blind) 08:53:22 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:54:14 -!- sooheon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01:51 -!- firemonkey has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:07:08 -!- waat has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:09:35 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:16:48 -!- MainiacJoe has joined ##crawl-dev 09:18:44 Hello, archaeo suggested that my "What Each Attribute and Skill Does" DCA thread might be a good addition as a patch to the manual or in-game help, and directed me here to see whether and how to do that. 09:19:13 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22778 09:27:31 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 09:33:20 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 09:45:38 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:46:37 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:47:24 -!- cait has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:48:31 -!- sooheon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:50:19 -!- Kranix has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:53:07 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:53:55 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 09:57:14 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:57:51 -!- MainiacJoe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:58:14 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:10 -!- saty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:02:07 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:12:05 -!- KamiKatze has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:13:16 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 10:13:39 !messages 10:13:40 (1/1) Rast said (1d 8h 40m 52s ago): https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22832 10:14:10 !tell Rast Yeah, a Gozag unique would be cool! :) $$$ 10:14:10 dpeg: OK, I'll let rast know. 10:18:44 -!- MainiacJoe has joined ##crawl-dev 10:22:10 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 10:25:25 -!- feksclaus has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.6] 10:29:30 -!- hruvur has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:39:22 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:40:13 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 10:42:28 -!- quinn has joined ##crawl-dev 10:45:05 -!- quinn has quit [Client Quit] 10:45:35 -!- Boatshow has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:46:09 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 10:47:54 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 10:51:13 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:53:33 -!- timvisher has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:56:35 -!- sooheon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:59:19 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:59:35 -!- Dark-Jedi has quit [Quit: If it breaks, you get to keep both backports.] 11:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:23 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:04:11 -!- Kranix has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:05:06 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:10 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:39 -!- D is now known as Guest40662 11:23:13 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:40 -!- Guest40662 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:24:09 !tell marvinpa to be clear, i'm not advocating for any removals - just slightly surprised they haven't happened, if you get me? (good bug link btw) 11:24:10 Pleasingfungus: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 11:27:55 Pleasingfungus: who's on the chopping block today? 11:28:17 i was idly musing about morg 11:28:52 that belongs to Boris, you cannot remove it!! 11:29:07 haha 11:29:15 someday we should fix boris 11:29:17 * dpeg is flavour king 11:29:21 all this dungeon shortening has hurt him real bad 11:29:32 not recently, really. mostly just the loss of d:16-27 i think 11:29:32 poor Boris 11:31:32 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:41:03 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:43:19 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 11:44:39 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:48:56 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 11:55:51 -!- Atomic_2yYCn has quit [Client Quit] 11:56:31 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 11:58:05 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:03:02 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:04:42 -!- sooheon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:06:44 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-470-gbb038bd (34) 12:07:48 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 12:08:25 -!- MainiacJoe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:11:04 -!- stickyfingers has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:15:51 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:18:42 -!- darkschneider has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:18:59 -!- darkschneider has joined ##crawl-dev 12:21:51 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:23:45 -!- casmith789 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:29:49 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:32:29 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:17 -!- sooheon has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:38:42 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 12:39:39 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:45:42 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507]] 12:54:22 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:02:10 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:03:54 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:08:25 -!- MainiacJoe has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:48 -!- GauHelldragon2 is now known as GauHelldragon 13:11:23 -!- zxc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:18:00 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:13 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-471-g521e6c5: Fix wizmode create stairs being backwards (#10898) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/521e6c54c55e 13:19:27 -!- Kramell has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:20:31 re: removals, i had sort of been thinking that the scimitar of flaming death might be good to un-unrandify 13:20:32 MarvinPA: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:20:52 it does have the sticky flame gimmick but there's just so many long blade unrands, and it's also much less cool than firestarter 13:22:10 likewise the dagger of chilly death maybe, that also just seems like it'd be rare to ever get any use out of it 13:22:20 morg's at least a dagger of pain, which is decent! 13:29:37 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:33:15 -!- cait is now known as yesno 13:35:08 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 13:39:43 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:43:50 -!- MainiacJoe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:44:24 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 13:44:31 -!- firemonkey has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:44:44 i just learned what happens when you divide a negative int by an unsigned int in c++ 13:46:41 -!- coledot has joined ##crawl-dev 13:47:02 god mode activates? 13:47:13 insofar as god mode involves very large numbers: yes 13:47:37 it should promote to unsigned, then divide 13:48:03 for some value of 'should' 13:48:12 i would expect a very large positive number 13:48:14 in that this is what is defined in the standard 13:48:43 i would expect my compiler to warn me about this! it warns me nonstop "oh no you're comparing a signed int i to the size of this array", which has never mattered 13:48:48 but it doesn't even give a peep about this? 13:48:57 trash! garbage! 13:49:09 c++ compilers warn about things now? 13:51:26 not mine, apparently 13:51:28 hunting through options now. 13:53:05 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:53:33 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:54:32 -!- Jarlyk2 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:57:09 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:33 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 14:09:20 -!- saty_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:09:26 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-471-g521e6c5 (34) 14:09:32 heh, his precious 'clang' failed to warn him... 14:09:56 -!- oseph has quit [Quit: okbyebye] 14:10:03 ...this is why gcc has the ultimate power... 14:10:12 what power is that? 14:10:33 I dunno, like, ....optimizations... 14:10:52 ;) 14:11:09 ...lookahead? *looks around nerviously for |amethyst* 14:11:15 *nervously 14:14:26 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 14:18:54 -!- saty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:19:13 MarvinPA: yeah, looking through the unrandarts is a good idea (trying not to say "review", that already sounds like work :) 14:19:35 integer overflows, a way of life 14:19:48 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:26:25 -!- orionstein is now known as Orionstein 14:27:18 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:31:18 -!- scummos__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:29 Butchering removal patch 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10899 by Doesnt 14:32:21 so i made a thing 14:32:32 -!- Orionstein is now known as OrionsteiN 14:32:32 that's my first time making a patch so lmk if i messed something up 14:32:58 dang, that was fast 14:33:07 -!- OrionsteiN is now known as orionstein 14:33:21 -!- bluedave has quit [] 14:37:17 !lm araganzar ancestor 14:37:18 24. [2017-01-12 07:13:34] araganzar the Conjurer (L7 DrCj of Hepliaklqana) remembered their ancestor LOSBlocker 2000 as a battlemage on turn 4018. (D:4) 14:37:29 ^ sending a powerful message to the devs 14:37:49 lol 14:39:25 Doesnty: wow, real fast 14:40:01 is there a command to view whoever has the fastest abyssal rune run ? 14:40:25 it's probably 1 turn unless there's logic stopping you from being banished directly to the abyssal rune 14:40:57 I have actually be banished liek right next to one before, i just assumed it considered escaping as well, maybe not 14:50:38 -!- MainiacJoe has joined ##crawl-dev 14:52:51 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:54 -!- saty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:02:55 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 15:05:39 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 15:13:49 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507]] 15:15:58 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 15:17:27 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 15:20:51 -!- saty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:21:05 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 15:25:51 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:43 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:37:15 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 15:42:32 -!- jeefus has joined ##crawl-dev 15:42:41 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:42:45 -!- Jetnerd has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:43:14 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:42 gammafunk: do you think with high enough stealth and shadowform i should be able to completely ninja this orb run ? 15:44:12 droogie: for gameplay questions like these, you want to ask in ##crawl or you can ask me on the crawl discord 15:44:18 since this is the dev channel 15:44:26 I'm not in ##crawl usually, but I'm in the discord 15:44:35 ah ok, i didn't even know there was a discord 15:44:39 https://discord.gg/USt3d 15:44:42 thanks 15:44:47 it's not official 15:44:57 but yeah it's a roguelikes discord 15:45:07 Do we (as *the devteam*) have an opinion on the chunks-from-corpses thing? 15:45:43 I suggested that some hours ago, in order to improve UI a bit (removes 'c' command, for example), but as it happens, Doesnty made a patch. So now we need an answer :O 15:45:55 uh 15:46:12 I don't think when someone makes a patch, we're forced into some kind of decision, dpeg 15:46:20 if that were the case we'd have a lot of problems 15:46:39 -!- jefus- has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:47:27 I haven't really thought about it myself, but it sounds like we're removing any of strategic tradeoff between using a corpse for derived undead and for food 15:49:08 gammafunk: yes, usually we don't, but this patch was possibly made by my proposal. So at least I feel like I should reply. 15:49:37 I know about this tradeoff (and I used it as an argument before), but does it really come up? 15:50:14 -!- keyvin has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:50:38 I'm not sure I care that much. I do feel a bit "muh flavor cost!", and I also feel a bit "this is one step closer to removing food" 15:51:08 dpeg: yeah but "we need an answer" because "of so-and-so's proposal" 15:51:24 the tradeoff can't come up as long as the game has this much non-corpse food 15:51:39 sounds like so-and-so can reply 15:52:20 before corpse sac was removed, in trog games i would just sacrifice every corpse until i reached max piety and eat rations instead because there were so many 15:52:39 also for Fedhas. That was definitely the right choice almost every time 15:52:44 also Makh . . . 15:52:44 <|amethyst> I think it's probably only relevant for trolls 15:52:51 and maybe ghouls 15:52:55 <|amethyst> oh, right, Gh 15:53:09 <|amethyst> and Vp I suppose 15:53:15 Lasty_1: sometime ago we tried to remove food in one fell swoop. That stalled, essentially we didn't settle on what food would do in "chunkless". Since then, we've resorted to small steps: make food painless. My proposal is yet another step in that direction. 15:54:33 Well i don't think that's really the correct summary of events for what happened back then, but yeah this is defintely a step in the direction of removing food 15:54:43 another thing is what's going to happen for vampires 15:54:50 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 15:55:13 the patch basically preserves status quo, even though he hates dropping blood potions on corpses 15:55:36 if you want to preserve the possibility of a tradeoff you can always make animate dead use chunks instead of corpses 15:55:38 gammafunk: would be interesting to hear others about food etc. 15:56:04 <|amethyst> minmay: chunks no longer track monster type, and if they did that would cause problems with stacking 15:56:17 dpeg: the whole debate back then was "should food be only a progress clock" (that was more my side) versus "should there be many varied food costs" (that was more your side) 15:56:20 <|amethyst> minmay: so unless we turned all zombies into plain "zombie" I don't think that would work so well 15:57:23 and various people felt like there were important food costs worth preserving 15:57:27 <|amethyst> btw, what does the patch do about corpses versus skeletons? 15:57:48 <|amethyst> might require tweaks to Animate Skeleton 15:58:09 animate skeleton stops producing chunks 15:58:36 -!- coledot has quit [Quit: coledot] 15:59:08 <|amethyst> I would not have a problem with removing the "skeleton" monster type too, but I suppose there's no reason that would need to happen immediately 15:59:18 -!- LordSloth has joined ##crawl-dev 15:59:32 <|amethyst> and turning Animate Skeleton into Animate Remains (like the yred ability before upgrade) 15:59:33 it would be easier if we simplified derived undead classes maybe 15:59:49 so that it would simply be lower-tier zombies created by the lower level spells 16:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:24 perhaps the tier by spell power, with the single-monster version having a lower cap 16:00:27 <|amethyst> gammafunk: IMO that's what skeleton vs zombie already tries to be 16:00:39 sure, just more elaborate way of doing that 16:00:46 <|amethyst> gammafunk: or were you thinking just "small zombie, medium zombie, large zombie" without the monster type? 16:00:49 wrt the current situation 16:00:53 are derived undead even desirable? seems odd that animate skeleton/dead scale for free 16:01:12 |amethyst: something simplified from the "unique derived type by monster", yeah 16:01:31 maybe it would need a bit more classing than just small, medium, large (flying? movement?) 16:01:32 <|amethyst> ooh, I know 16:01:36 to get more damage from poison arrow you have to get more spell power, you don't have to do anything to get progressively better allies from animate dead as the game goes on 16:01:48 <|amethyst> "crawling corpse", "macabre mass", "small abomination", "large abomination" :) 16:01:58 !tell dpeg I'm running a Vinestalker Venom Mage over on dynamic monsters if you're curious 16:01:59 LordSloth: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 16:02:01 it does get closer to |amethyst former favorite spell, yeah 16:02:13 *|amethyst's 16:02:29 I think Lasty_1 had some ideas about that simplification 16:02:35 maybe just another thing on the todo 16:02:42 <|amethyst> minmay: same is true of Shadow Creatures 16:02:52 <|amethyst> minmay: it's definitely more of a problem for Animate Skeleton though 16:02:53 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 16:03:03 <|amethyst> because L1 spells are definitely not supposed to scale arbitrarily 16:03:18 <|amethyst> for an L4 spell I'm less concerned 16:03:25 <|amethyst> not unconcerned, but less 16:03:31 well it could go in a direction where the derived undead were based on both spellpower and monster HD, or something 16:03:59 so you can't get the dega-zombie from some low HD thing later 16:04:32 <|amethyst> if we did keep derived undead (with monster base types) 16:04:45 <|amethyst> it could instead be that the duration is proportional to power/hd 16:04:46 or yeah we could just let that be part of necromancy, not need spell power for derived undead quality 16:05:04 well, I think back when the duration was lowered 16:05:16 it was felt for balance reason that allowing it to scale up is bad 16:05:37 dunno if that could change with a reclassification 16:05:42 <|amethyst> gammafunk: could be proportional to power / f(hd) scaled so that the max is about what it is now 16:06:03 |amethyst: that would probably be a pretty extreme nerf, if I understand you correctly 16:06:04 <|amethyst> gammafunk: so that low spellpower on big creatures gives you very short-lived zombies 16:06:21 early game allies would probably not last much longer than summons 16:06:28 <|amethyst> gammafunk: hm, yeah, I guess directly proportional with the same max is probably too much of a nerf 16:06:35 <|amethyst> gammafunk: f(hd) could be something like hd^3 16:06:42 <|amethyst> gammafunk: with a cap 16:07:05 well, but even hd^3, would that work? 16:07:07 @??adder 16:07:07 adder (09S) | Spd: 13 (swim: 60%) | HD: 2 | HP: 9-13 | AC/EV: 1/15 | Dam: 508(poison:4-8) | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(10), 12drown | XP: 13 | Sz: little | Int: animal. 16:07:20 what does f(hd) = 8 mean? 16:07:30 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:07:30 -!- MainiacJoe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:07:33 as in how many turns 16:07:40 <|amethyst> duration is c * power / 8 for some c 16:07:49 <|amethyst> I haven't looked at the current numbers 16:08:23 <|amethyst> hm 16:08:50 <|amethyst> would also have to look at how spellpower scales; I don't have a good feeling for that 16:08:52 the current durations feel fairly brief given that you ahve to travel to the next encounter (esp if you want to rest first) 16:08:59 <|amethyst> hm 16:10:12 <|amethyst> what I like about the current system as opposed to just a few subtypes is that, for monsters of the same general difficulty, if you zombify a fast one, it will be faster; if you zombify a hard-hitter, it will be harder-hitting; etc 16:11:36 <|amethyst> but really that just means the spell works differently in different places, because you usually don't skip zombifying things just because their zombies wouldn't have the properties you want 16:11:42 <|amethyst> hm 16:11:45 -!- Hampooj has quit [Client Quit] 16:21:58 every cast has a permanent cost of 1 max hp 16:22:11 |amethyst: generic skeletons/zombies/simulacra/etc would fix some of the power issues with derived undead spells. gammafunk may have already said that. 16:22:47 As for duration, it could be a very effective control, assuming that durations could only be equal to or less than the current duration 16:22:49 which is very long 16:23:04 The code that picks duration now only recognizes 7 levels of duration, but we could fix that 16:23:41 Okay, the first thing I said there is just a recap of your conversation. Sorry 'bout that. 16:25:11 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:26:30 !source ouch.cc:510 16:26:30 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/ouch.cc#L510 16:26:40 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:26:57 this whole function is extremely something, but this in particular is amazing and i can't concieve of what it's possibly trying to do or why 16:27:27 Was it ever possible to fumble a throw in a way that hurt you? 16:28:04 wow actually i think i maybe get it 16:28:08 it dates back to: 16:28:11 %git 20a66094 16:28:11 07greensnark02 * 0.3-a0-303-g20a6609: Preliminary integration of Zooko's Xom patch (untested). 10(10 years ago, 50 files, 1704+ 847-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/20a6609453ee 16:28:22 xom's message when you die depends on his mood 16:28:26 at which point SK_RANGED_COMBAT was a thing (i had no clue that had ever existed) 16:28:52 lol 16:28:54 so i think it's saying, if it was a melee attack and your ranged combat skill is low, it's funnier??? and if it was a ranged attack and your fighting is low, it's also funnier 16:29:24 <|amethyst> but... if melee characters are hurt in melee, that's not amusing 16:29:27 as in, you're fighting in the situation you didn't want to be in? 16:29:28 <|amethyst> that's how it usually works 16:29:34 -!- cait has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:29:42 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:29:45 <|amethyst> Lasty_1: but it's the other way around 16:30:04 <|amethyst> Lasty_1: if you're fighting in the situation you do want to be in 16:30:09 <|amethyst> ish 16:30:13 |amethyst: what do you mean? 16:30:23 i don't think this function does what it was intended to 16:30:26 oh, ah 16:30:28 yeah 16:30:30 I can read now 16:30:45 I think I just assumed something vaguely sane 16:30:50 even if we ignore the existence of magic/bows/xbows/slings 16:31:23 i think i was reading it as implying "you got hit by a melee attack and have low ranged combat, that's funny because you should have trained more ranged combat" 16:35:02 looks like cao may be down 16:35:13 dying because you had less than XL/4 fighting should always be funny 16:35:29 <|amethyst> gammafunk: yeah, I can't contact it by ssh 16:35:37 <|amethyst> gammafunk: rax just reconnected a bit ago 16:35:47 oh, right, saw that 16:45:01 -!- wheals_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:45:07 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 16:46:01 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 16:47:19 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 16:49:46 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:57:44 sorry, son wanted to play go instead of sleeping :) 16:57:44 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:58:34 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 16:58:45 -!- qtip2 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:59:43 LordSloth: the VsVM bit it? :) 17:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:45 -!- oseph has quit [Quit: okbyebye] 17:05:57 !lg lordsloth 17:05:58 3949. LordSloth the Ruffian (L3 GhMo), quit the game on D:2 on 2017-01-13 20:51:58, with 28 points after 770 turns and 0:02:15. 17:06:10 !lg lordsloth vsvm x=ckiller 17:06:11 8. [ckiller=quitting] LordSloth the Stinger (L1 VSVM), quit the game on D:1 (dpeg_arrival_simpleton_c) on 2014-09-29 17:34:04, with 0 points after 0 turns and 0:00:04. 17:06:21 dat killer entry vault 17:06:47 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 17:07:41 dat vault yo 17:07:43 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:08:11 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:19:30 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 17:22:11 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 17:30:22 dpeg: nope, dinner and such 17:31:42 !tell dpeg nope, the VS still alive. 17:31:43 LordSloth: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 17:31:43 good luck then 17:31:43 dpeg: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 17:31:57 Oh, @dpeg, that's why I didn't see it to the right 17:31:58 Derp 17:32:31 no problem :) 17:32:56 GUI feedback: Bezotted monsters really need an icon 17:33:17 yeah, no love for tilists so far 17:34:03 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 17:36:47 Gameplay feedback: it's not really clear what the purpose of the branch is. The randomization of it kicking in complicates matters. Because of random triggering, it might not process on several fights, then trigger on a bat, or a monster you're still busy fighting, let alone luring 17:37:32 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:37:36 well, maybe taking a step back from luring, the goal is to make things tactically more interesting, occasionally 17:38:16 If luring is the focus, I'd have combat (say, swinging and missing a bat) decrease the odds of it triggering 17:38:58 interesting 17:39:07 If I was going to focus on the 'tactically more interesting' aspect, I'd go all in on it triggering, and then trimming it down 17:39:17 the big idea behind this is that our monsters have very fixed patterns (there's some randomisation with HP and so on), and it might be interesting to allow them to change (and the numerical changes you see in the branch are just easiest to invent/code) 17:39:47 Like after 20 turns, monsters start getting more 'antsy' and 5 turns later, they get bezotted 17:40:07 And with that approach it reminds me of several old concepts for Okawaru being all about pitched battles 17:40:09 I will never quote that on SA, promised 17:41:17 It might make an interesting counterpoint to some god 17:41:40 well, as far as the luring goes: the benefit of luring is that you have the same monster, in a better spot -- if it bezots meanwhile, you have a somewhat harder monster in the better spot 17:42:25 Or, alternatively, one of the more interesting perspectives on SA on your branch was.. approaching from an anti-pillar dancing perspective rather than an anti-luring perspective 17:42:33 there's a lot of caveats and drawbacks, and perhaps this doesn't fly at all, but I hope it *is* worthwhile thinking about changing monsters 17:43:03 oh, energy randomisation has been removed right away, because that's killed by bezotting 17:43:08 It doesn't proc often enough on a VSVM (so far, d:8) 17:43:22 which i picked to increase the chance of kiting 17:43:34 yes, I found the chance to be a bit low (you note it, but not often) but Lasty_1 reported otherwise 17:43:45 but when it does, it doesn't really work out.. unless you cut-down on the two-headed ogres 17:43:50 I tried an OpVM for that extra kiting 17:44:08 -!- coledot has joined ##crawl-dev 17:44:59 If you want to tie it making corridor fights more interesting a tradeoff, I started to have an idea, but my food just came off the stovetop 17:45:16 please don't forget the idea over food! 17:45:24 and dig in 17:48:03 -!- Dixie has quit [Quit: handing off to new term emu] 17:51:20 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:53:15 -!- snux has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:54:44 Only a brainstorm: 17:55:31 1). If an enemy cannot move towards you (as in a corridor), it gets more irritated 17:56:09 2). More like tracking, that is, if the enemy is in active pursuit and not combat/etc 17:56:39 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 17:56:51 I don't see this mechanic helping with the lone two-headed ogres 17:56:53 So hmmm 17:57:18 Crib DoomRL's run mode? 17:57:49 Bezotted God, plus run ability, plus rapid increase/decrease of piety 17:59:25 The randomization isn't interesting unless the player has some influence over the matter 18:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:25 Could make a solid wrath mechanic 18:01:26 But if you want to make things more interesting, it needs to be either actively triggered/influenced agressively by player action, or just happen a lot more 18:01:45 It's in an uncomfortable niche 18:02:01 Not enough to balance around, not too little to ignore 18:02:50 It will eventually happen if someone plays as usual, maybe even charging into combat 18:02:50 Like that time with the bat 18:03:04 Some goon mentioned a minimum time or something 18:03:09 I could look it up 18:04:03 the trouble with a minimum time is that you encourage counting turns to track when that minimum time becomes active 18:04:05 currently there is a minimum time (which is not good imo) 18:04:10 hi mpa 18:04:13 hi! 18:04:15 :) 18:04:33 a simple solution to this problem, imo, is to not add a bezotting mechanic 18:04:35 PF is a better person than me and actually gave the reason that it is not good :P 18:04:40 -!- ig0rb1t has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:04:41 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.20-a0-471-g521e6c5 (34) 18:04:45 Okay, so trying to give a more focused feedback based on some of goons more interested in discussion 18:04:57 i'm sort of unsure that it's a thing that will really work, yeah 18:05:01 MarvinPA: you say 'good person', but that's BEFORE i just start introducing negativity and memes into the discussion 18:05:04 haha 18:05:21 well, i didn't say good! only "better" 18:05:25 :P 18:05:25 less bad 18:05:42 With the two-headed ogres getting bezotted, i felt that it took the decision away from the player "intended to trigger decisions" 18:05:57 Whether I was fighting or running 18:06:14 "had bezotting kick in between 40-100 turns. I don't see a "grace period" before bezotting can kick in. I would suggest x_chance_in_y(turns-BEZOTTING_GRACE_PERIOD, turns-BEZOTTING_GRACE_PERIOD + 500) maybe? This would allow "good luring" (pulling with rocks, bringing a monster out of sight/sound of known peers) while still punishing "bad luring" (pillar-dancing, pulling a monster 2 screens JUST IN CASE SHIT GOES DOWN)." 18:06:21 Pleasingfungus: speaking of things that are bad, i think you would enjoy the xom discussion from a few minutes before you joined 18:06:35 from me coming across https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/ouch.cc#L510 (what is this thing????) 18:07:04 hm, from half an hour ago, apparently 18:07:08 reading 18:07:15 time flies when you're reading crawlcode 18:07:18 "The funny part is that this sounds like it punishes a lot of not-luring and minor luring behaviors more than endvault luring, " 18:08:08 isn't that something about getting a kill with low throwing skill? 18:08:11 yeah, bezotting wouldn't do much of anything to elf:3 probably. hadn't thought of it that way 18:08:15 gammafunk: getting killed 18:08:16 As I think on it more and more, it kinda strikes me as an okay divine mechanic which I'll call "Showdown at the DCSS Corral" for no reason 18:08:22 <|amethyst> getting damaged 18:08:26 just taking damage even, not necessarily getting killed 18:08:31 ah, true 18:08:57 so this isn't checked when the player does damage? 18:09:18 from this i've transitioned into just searching for things that entertain xom all over the place, which is a fun time 18:09:25 secret tech: keep fighting low with xom for massive entertainment 18:09:26 "- xom_is_stimulated(10); // dubious 18:09:26