00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:14 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-465-g6513c8f (34) 00:01:14 -!- Kalma has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:10:31 -!- purge has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:14:55 -!- destroythecore has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:19:11 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:26:27 -!- saty has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:27:39 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 00:32:02 -!- Moanerette has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:40:42 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:49:23 -!- saty has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:51:26 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 00:54:23 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:55:20 -!- adelrune has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:56:17 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:58:45 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 01:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:14 -!- saty has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:14:00 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 01:24:26 -!- circsquare has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:25:52 -!- Furril has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:26:25 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:30:51 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 01:32:49 !tell dpeg https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22832 01:32:50 Rast: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 01:40:41 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:43:29 -!- saty has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:51:22 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:02:46 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 02:05:13 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:07:12 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:11:25 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 02:24:12 -!- coledot has quit [Quit: coledot] 02:31:43 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:41:45 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 02:42:15 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 02:51:06 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:53:14 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:54:15 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 03:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:07:01 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 03:07:20 !messages 03:07:20 No messages for SteelNeuron. 03:16:11 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 03:16:32 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:17:19 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:19:04 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 03:21:01 -!- Danei[notDanei] has quit [Quit: Those who tell the truth shall die, those who tell the truth shall live forever.] 03:23:10 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:24:01 -!- mibe has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:24:06 -!- rubinko has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:24:13 Experimental (councilgod-PR) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-675-g770066e 03:26:13 Since hydra heads aern't chopped by riposte, I think it is a good idea not to proc *Rage from it too. 03:28:00 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 03:28:05 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:31:05 -!- BadBadger is now known as FunkyBomb 03:36:07 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-465-g6513c8f (34) 03:42:33 -!- jefus- has joined ##crawl-dev 03:42:33 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:46:09 -!- jeefus has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:48:08 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Client Quit] 03:49:12 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:51:01 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:49 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 04:02:49 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:30 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:18:16 -!- Blazinghbnd has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:18:49 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 04:26:28 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 04:28:25 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:33:48 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:42:08 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:42:46 -!- Floodkiller has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:43:58 -!- Hampooj has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:44:35 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 04:49:31 New branch created: pull/429 (6 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/429 04:49:31 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/429 * 0.20-a0-465-g7cb317f: Archaeologist shell 10(22 hours ago, 5 files, 19+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7cb317f0b529 04:49:31 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/429 * 0.20-a0-466-g2ffb54a: Initial stats and appearance 10(21 hours ago, 2 files, 14+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2ffb54ad4bed 04:49:31 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/429 * 0.20-a0-467-g391c899: Working archaeologist background 10(18 hours ago, 19 files, 268+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/391c89927b91 04:49:31 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/429 * 0.20-a0-468-gcfb3b32: Reduce manual skill points 10(14 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cfb3b32e15d0 04:49:31 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/429 * 0.20-a0-469-g1c00cfc: Manual and randart tweaks 10(13 hours ago, 2 files, 2+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1c00cfc175a7 04:49:31 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/429 * 0.20-a0-470-g9542d7c: Support forgetful archaeologists that dropped their gear somewhere 10(in the future, 6 files, 65+ 34-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9542d7c40307 04:51:51 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 05:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:05:46 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:11:36 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:16:33 02:17 < droogie> I think I'm looking at a potential bug right now on trunk ? 05:16:36 02:18 < droogie> If I confuse an enemy, then Ensorcelled Hibernation (sleep), the enemy will get the sleep icon but still move around as if they're confused... but if i hit them i get the sleep stab bonus 05:16:40 02:18 < droogie> so you just see moving sleeping enemies 05:19:52 ah, it's "sleepwalking" 05:21:34 -!- SurpriseTRex_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:22:48 -!- Yxhuvud has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:28:51 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:31:11 -!- Uhlv has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:36:57 yeah that's just a cool thing 05:37:01 confused and asleep at the same time 05:55:12 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:57:40 -!- aditya has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00:04 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:11:53 -!- Lahna has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:18:54 -!- ddubois has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:22:55 -!- fazisi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:12:37 -!- Bammboo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14:22 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:21:31 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 07:26:05 -!- Rotatell has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:31:22 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:32:33 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 07:32:48 -!- Rotatell has joined ##crawl-dev 07:44:49 Wizmode: create up/down staircase is down/up in fact 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10898 by Yermak 07:47:04 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:47:57 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 07:54:02 -!- cait has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:54:05 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 07:55:30 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Client Quit] 07:55:30 -!- Svitkona` has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:22:41 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 08:22:41 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please. 08:22:43 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??servers for instructions. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic 08:25:34 -!- circsquare has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:40:10 -!- bencryption has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 08:41:23 -!- feksclaus has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.6] 08:44:34 -!- Floodkiller has joined ##crawl-dev 08:53:53 -!- feksclaus has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.6] 09:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:04:19 -!- whig has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:04:40 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:05:43 -!- whig has joined ##crawl-dev 09:16:30 |amethyst: are you around by any chance? 09:20:25 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:25:28 <|amethyst> Lasty: briefly 09:26:40 I'm having trouble with tags and I could use another pair of eyes, if you don't mind. putting up patch now. 09:26:53 <|amethyst> ok 09:28:01 http://pastebin.com/ZBXbpkqU 09:28:15 I'm trying to add one int to the monster class 09:28:26 this approach worked well for me for moving time spent tracking into the monster class 09:30:58 but it looks like something is going wrong, because some unmarhsalls are complaining when I load a char 09:31:16 warning: ASSERT(!place_info.is_global()) in 'tags.cc' at line 3906 failed. 09:32:49 <|amethyst> hmm... transferring from trunk, from the previous tag, or older 09:32:49 <|amethyst> ? 09:33:06 -!- Implojin has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:33:06 from the previous tag, specificlally 09:33:11 lemme try transferring from trunk 09:33:43 <|amethyst> and this game loads fine in the previous version of the branch? 09:33:53 -!- bannakaffalatta has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:34:04 <|amethyst> because that sounds unrelated 09:34:09 same issue when transferring from trunk 09:34:16 yeah, the game worked fine before . . . 09:34:17 <|amethyst> hm 09:34:20 hmm 09:34:24 unless it wrote wrong 09:34:28 I can check that 09:34:51 oh, hmm 09:34:53 maybe it did 09:36:26 -!- Jarlyk2 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:36:42 The chars I tried to load that crashed with that patch also crash without it now, but at least one of them loaded fine with it 09:36:45 initially 09:37:02 I started a new char and saved and reopened it, no problems; found a random old char and no problems there too 09:37:08 <|amethyst> people were having the same problem recently I believe 09:37:09 gonna try those two again with the new patch 09:38:16 the oldchar that worked w/o the patch does not work w/ the patch; the char started and saved under the old patch does work w/ the patch 09:38:21 blarg 09:39:15 and now the oldchar doesn't work w/o the patch either 09:39:20 <|amethyst> yeah 09:39:26 <|amethyst> moment, let me find the discussion 09:39:29 <|amethyst> it's not related to the branch 09:39:35 ah, hmm 09:40:13 <|amethyst> how old was this game to begin with? 09:40:19 pretty old 09:40:35 I'm not certain, but at least a few months I'd guess 09:40:46 <|amethyst> hm 09:41:21 <|amethyst> but not older than Depths 09:42:03 no, definitely not 09:42:54 <|amethyst> see logs for 2016-12-26 starting around 12:28 09:43:25 -!- Ratatosk_ has quit [Quit: Ratatosk_] 09:43:25 thanks! 09:43:34 <|amethyst> I don't remember all the details now unfortunately; I looked into it and had a few theories, but didn't figure it out 09:45:36 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:45:47 Ah, yeah, this looks like the same situation 09:46:01 in which case I'm probably clear to push this out to the branch, at least 09:50:04 <|amethyst> hm, saves older than desoltation maybe? 09:50:08 <|amethyst> and, yeah, I think 09:51:10 <|amethyst> (I think it's safe to push, that is) 09:52:22 <|amethyst> !bug 10696 09:52:23 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10696 09:52:34 <|amethyst> that's the bug report btw 09:56:15 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:20 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:12:22 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:31 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:42 hooray, my power came back on 10:16:03 03Lasty02 07[dpegs_dynamic_monsters] * 0.20-a0-435-ga4f17a0: Give players some turns of monster tracking amnesty 10(21 minutes ago, 5 files, 26+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a4f17a040608 10:22:12 03Lasty02 07* 0.20-a0-466-gc52d0eb: Make poisonous vapours cloud extension correctly use auts (|amethyst) 10(15 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c52d0eb0b481 10:22:24 Lasty1: Has anything been said about how bezotting interacts with stairdancing? 10:22:47 SteelNeuron: yep, I saw the thread on Tavern 10:23:37 I haven't implemented anything yet, but I think it makes sense to increase turns_spent_tracking in some way 10:24:48 Hm 10:24:57 I'm looking at the code and it's better than I thought though 10:25:01 hooray 10:25:09 For some reason I assumed the counter reset after changing levels 10:25:13 oh, haha 10:25:17 yeah, that would be silly 10:26:15 About the luring problem in a more general way 10:26:23 I've been thinking of how deep water works 10:26:46 And that it's interesting that we don't consider it a design problem that swimming players can exploit it, or at least I haven't heard the argument 10:27:14 What I'm getting at in a roundabout way is that, maybe, certain monsters could treat everything outside their spawning vault as deep water, AI wise? 10:27:27 just chase you until the edge, shoot from there, walk back if they're unable to path to you 10:28:00 forcing you to assault the vault or find a way around it 10:28:54 I'm not saying do this for every monster in the game, but those associated to a particular vault, like beehives, end vaults, etc 10:30:42 Experimental (dpegs_dynamic_monsters) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-435-ga4f17a0 10:31:04 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:31:34 SteelNeuron: we tried that with the Elf:3 vault 10:31:38 it worked really badly 10:32:21 Did it make it too easy to exploit their patterns...? 10:32:23 yep 10:32:36 hm 10:32:43 elf:3 has never been easier 10:33:12 It is kind of a shame though, there are so many beautifully designed vaults in crawl where you never get to fight 10:33:17 because you'd be crazy to fight there 10:33:20 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:34:00 SteelNeuron: yeah. Hopefully dynamic monsters will make people less excited about luring out all the vault contents. 10:34:40 Are there any guidelines about what is and isn't acceptable to do with Lua for vaults? 10:35:06 I'm not sure; i haven't done much lua work 10:35:09 Because there could be some evil ideas like monsters only spawning when you step on pressure plates under the rune 10:35:36 or loot that you can only access if you don't take too much time luring 10:35:36 we do have some vaults that do things like that 10:35:46 There's a volcano that does the latter 10:35:49 -!- sage1234 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:36:03 Yeah, I love these 10:36:32 maybe the problem could be alleviated by more vaults like that, that put the player in difficult situations, be it via carrot or stick 10:36:47 old jellies sorta did that 10:36:59 tho they had other problems 10:37:31 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:38:15 How about this (and hopefully this concludes my session of random rambling) 10:38:17 -!- SurpriseTRex__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:38:25 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 10:38:45 If we look at it from a monster perspective... If they chase you out of a vault, that would be a morale booster for them wouldn't it 10:39:33 so if they chase you out of their vault for long enough, they could run back with increased speed and every vault-bound monster would hear about it and get bezotted (or a morale equivalent) 10:40:21 so the old Elf:3 but if you try to fight everyone at the edge you run the risk of them going back and increasing the difficulty 10:41:12 But the difficulty increase only affects monsters that you can already cheese heavily 10:41:17 it'd have to be a huge buff 10:44:48 Hm 10:45:13 I have the feeling that noise can also be a good tool in some way... 10:45:26 The way shouting works atm isn't too interesting 10:46:06 Maybe monsters should only shout when chasing you, placing the noise source in the general direction you're going 10:46:19 So if you murder something in place you get the benefit of being silent (surprise) 10:47:36 Monsters shouting as they chase you also has been suggested 10:55:00 |amethyst: &D seems to just detect all monsters. I'm not sure how to trigger debug_stethoscope, so I haven't tested this patch, but it compiles... 10:55:35 03Lasty02 07[dpegs_dynamic_monsters] * 0.20-a0-436-g2093afb: Add turns spent tracking to debug_stethoscope (|amethyst) 10(11 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2093afb7960f 11:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:09:25 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-466-gc52d0eb (34) 11:10:35 -!- Ratatosk_ has quit [Quit: Ratatosk_] 11:10:55 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:17:11 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:19:07 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:23:47 -!- nattefrost has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:24:47 the problem with shouts is that they do the opposite of helping I think 11:24:51 they incentivize luring 11:32:42 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:33:55 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 11:41:29 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 11:41:30 The build has errored. (master - c52d0eb #7560 : Corin Buchanan-Howland): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/191338085 11:41:30 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 11:42:37 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42:50 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:01:29 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:03:22 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:05:09 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-466-gc52d0eb (34) 12:08:33 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:08:33 -!- ddubois has quit [Client Quit] 12:09:22 -!- Finwe^ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:17:01 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 12:21:12 -!- knu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:32:54 -!- mibe has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:46:08 -!- dondy has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5] 12:46:10 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 12:47:26 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:47:35 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:51:53 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:53:33 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:55:56 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:56:51 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:07 -!- saty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:59:34 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06:55 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 13:09:08 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:10:52 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:21:19 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:22:59 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:32:30 -!- bgiannan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:32:44 .echo Lasty_: $(!always be luring) 13:32:45 Lasty_: ABL! A-Always! B-Be! L-Luring! Always Be Luring! ALWAYS BE LURING! 13:32:52 Sequel knows what's up 13:32:53 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:33:02 I stop luring when I die, luring 4 lyfe 13:33:20 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:34:04 -!- DevlanMud has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:36:53 -!- bgiannan1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:39:33 -!- bannakaffalatta has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 13:43:20 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:46:13 -!- zxc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:48:33 -!- Kranix has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:53:04 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:56:07 -!- coledot has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:28 -!- ig0rb1t has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:09:58 -!- yho17 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12:39 -!- sooheon has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:26:24 -!- bgiannan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:26:38 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 14:26:39 -!- tsujin has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:34:32 -!- Harudoku has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:44:31 -!- bgiannan1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:45:31 -!- Elsi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:46:09 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:46:46 -!- removeelyvilon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:50:50 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 14:51:34 !messages 14:51:34 No messages for SteelNeuron. 14:53:35 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 14:56:53 -!- tsujin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:58:07 -!- bgiannan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:59:39 SteelNeuron: did you have a question for me? i saw a missed message on my home PC. I don't get all PMs on my phone and I haven't checked my home too much lately 14:59:40 johnstein: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 14:59:58 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:35 oh I see the messages now 15:00:55 oh! Yeah I ended up pming you 15:01:07 well, now that you ask, there's something else I wanted to mention :) 15:01:13 give me a heads up when it gets merged 15:01:25 and if you want to ensure saves are back compatible 15:02:17 re: merging, I think it isn't decided yet if it's making it into trunk, so there's no rush. dpeg has proposed it but we need to hear everyone else 15:02:39 there's server surgery to get to saves to work. shouldn't be bad but it's delta work 15:03:07 So, I was going to ask if you'd be interested in hosting this PR as an experimental: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/429 . There is some interest in the forums for it. 15:03:07 oh. I read wrong. you said merged to trubk 15:03:12 trubk 15:03:29 In case it isn't too much effort / the server isn't too overloaded with experimentals atm 15:03:53 I thought you meant just the branch to be an official branch 15:04:12 so never mind my save compat question 15:04:17 oh, I see! No, dpeg has proposed the merge to trunk at CRD, but we'll still be waiting for opinions on that :) 15:05:01 no need to do anything to the council god CBRO build, aside from deleting it if ends up in trunk 15:06:05 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:06:30 man. I never get timely crd 15:06:32 in email 15:10:51 -!- saty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:12:57 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:14:53 so what do you say about the archaeologist, johnstein? :) 15:15:29 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:21:17 i'm not johnstein, but it sounds like an interesting idea to explore, to me. i don't like the idea of giving out a guaranteed unrand; i had imagined you would generate a randart weapon/armour/book, or like a box of beasts or something if my skill is evo 15:21:34 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:12 i guess the problem with magic skills is that you would be training a skill that does you no good until you open the crate, whereas at least with a weapon skill you can wield mundane things 15:22:39 At the moment you don't get any particular magic schools in your manual 15:22:50 unrands that pertain to spellcasting in general just give SK_SPELLCASTING 15:22:55 for that reason :) 15:23:14 amalloy: The original idea was to use unrands just because they're too infrequent to organize a build around, but I also considered having different possible starts for an archaeologist, kind of like monstruous DS 15:23:17 archaeologist? 15:23:18 oh I missed that comment. reading thread now 15:23:31 agreed with amalloy on leaning towards no unrand 15:23:33 And one of it could just be an unrand or a book 15:23:44 also we are getting a lot of experimentals 15:23:52 so I need to restructure a bit 15:24:13 s/unrand/randart 15:24:15 to segregate the "official" ones from "unofficial". 15:24:54 SteelNeuron: it's good imo that unrandarts are infrequent. if you give a strong unrand to every archaeologist, they become less interesting when you find them normally 15:25:55 amalloy: Agreed. Do you think this is a problem that can be sorted by reducing the chance of an "unrand start"? I'd like for it to be an option, maybe one out of three or four times. 15:27:52 if you have a chance I'd make it more like 1 in 20 or less frequent 15:27:54 well, one possibility would be to give you an acquirement item of the right type for your skill 15:28:11 !lg * week 15:28:12 but then it's like, your background is "terrible starting stats/skills, but you get an ?acq" 15:28:12 29454. alp the Skirmisher (L3 DsAK of Lugonu), killed by a spatial distortion on D:2 on 2017-01-12 20:25:59, with 46 points after 1602 turns and 0:04:52. 15:28:41 amalloy: (and a boost to a random skill in the form of a manual) 15:28:53 but yeah, just an ?acq is underwhelming 15:29:16 it sounds like an invitation to startscum and/or play super-quickly but recklessly until you luck into surviving long enough to get your great item 15:30:20 I'm not a Dev but what about merging archaeologist with wanderer? 15:30:28 well. replacing 15:30:41 ...my archaeologist gave me a manual of long blades that doesn't allow me to train long blades 15:30:53 you need a long blade right? 15:31:15 hmm or should it allow it by itself 15:32:07 manuals normally do 15:32:18 Oh, then I missed something 15:32:24 I tried to be fancy and "transform" the tome into the manual 15:32:44 dropping and regrabbing should help... I'll fix that 15:34:52 SteelNeuron: to answer your question. sure I'm interested but I might want to think a bit on a better process to use for experimentals 15:35:21 johnstein: no problem :) 15:36:12 SteelNeuron: also, what if i find an ordinary manual of long blades before i identify the one i actually have, or before i finish it? the player has no control over which manual they "finish" 15:36:23 but one of the manuals is special 15:36:38 interesting 15:36:44 it should be marked as such and prioritised 15:38:15 brb dinner 15:41:35 -!- bgiannan1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:42:31 -!- bgiannan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:42:35 -!- jeefus has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:22 -!- AngelaSmythe has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:46:39 -!- jefus- has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:48:22 -!- JimmahDean has quit [] 15:49:05 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 15:50:50 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:55:28 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 15:59:13 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 15:59:16 gammafunk: I'm finding the no luring branch very hard too 15:59:23 I haven't died yet, but it's come very close 15:59:36 yeah I don't have a sense of how frequently it will trigger 15:59:49 haven't played it yet 16:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:02 it's #tracking turns / 2000? 16:00:10 er 16:00:14 I tried it with a spriggan on a D:1 hobgoblin and it took a long time to trigger 16:00:21 and then I still outsped it because I was a spriggan 16:00:22 I forget how that formula went 16:01:25 Lasty_: thinking about this again, and only briefly, is this information about monsters persistant in any way? how close they are to bezotting 16:01:40 am I going to be rewarded for keeping tabs on what a monster has done 16:02:02 obviously once bezotted they'll just have a status, or something, but I mean before that point 16:10:42 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:14:17 -!- bgiannan1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:15:17 -!- bgiannan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:19:19 gammafunk: the number of turns they've spent tracking you is a prop on the monster 16:20:26 so, yes, it has the reward problem you discuss. imo just simplify it to "every turn a monster is tracking you, it has a 1/2000 chance of becoming bezotted" 16:25:12 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 16:29:16 I have a followup to an older suggestion of mine: we can get rid of the 'c'hop command by having dead monsters produce either corpses or chunks. (I want "either" to avoid unnecessary stacks.) 16:29:17 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:29:52 This is new: leave chance for corpse generation as now. Of the rest (current chance of no chance appearing), make half produce chunks. 16:30:55 -!- bgiannan1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:31:06 I think that'd streamline food a bit more. Would have been better to suggest this before auto-chopping, sorry. 16:33:03 * dpeg realises he might be speaking to the void. No big deal, the void sure is a good listener :) 16:34:11 that would be nice 16:35:39 !seen brannock 16:35:39 I last saw Brannock at Thu Jan 12 01:21:08 2017 UTC (20h 14m 31s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: Leaving'. 16:36:43 !tell Brannock I've update the planning devwiki page a bit. And I made a new page for the dynamical monsters where I added your SA comment, hope I got that right. 16:36:43 dpeg: OK, I'll let brannock know. 16:37:34 -!- bannakaf_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:49 Doesnty: remember when 'D'issecting a corpse needed a knife? :) 16:37:57 yep 16:38:08 good old time, baddevs ruining everything 16:38:10 if you wielded a cursed mace, no chunks for you 16:38:18 exactly, as it should be! 16:39:05 -!- bannakaffalatta has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:44:10 -!- cait has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:45:12 gammafunk: it's currently time_tracking in 2000 + time tracking 16:45:43 amalloy: I feel pretty good about the 1/2000 idea, but I also like the idea of punishing people more if they lure more 16:46:19 Lasty_: a constant chance of 1/2000 already has that feature. the more turns you spend luring, the more likely it is that one of the turns will have bezotted 16:46:33 it doesn't make the likelihood *each turn* go up, but that's not important 16:46:47 and time is in aut here? so 200 turns on average before you see bezotting? 16:47:26 i don't think the specific number (1/2000) is important; that can be tuned 16:47:41 huh? 16:47:49 I the specific number is rather important 16:47:56 since it has to achieve its desired gameplay effect 16:48:13 what i mean is, i think it's important that the number be constant, and the constant should be chosen to achieve the desired effect 16:48:22 is there a proposal for a different formula? 16:48:26 that's another issue, yes 16:48:31 but the specific constant chosen doesn't matter to me; i just think it is silly for it to not be constant 16:48:47 -!- removeelyvilon has joined ##crawl-dev 16:48:50 since you can easily tune to constant to achieve whatever expected-time-to-bezot you like 16:48:54 boys, 16:48:54 removeelyvilon: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:49:02 but my concern is that 200 turns is kind of a lot more than what most people do for 'luring' 16:49:04 how can I get a monster to bezot. how can I tell it happened 16:49:28 so I'm not sure we're all working on the same definition of luring 16:49:38 w/working on/working with/ 16:49:54 it's also very high variance, this method 16:50:14 amalloy: yeah, it's a linear addition over luring distance, as opposed to a more geometric one 16:50:46 I suppose what I'm saying is that I like the idea that the risk wouldn't be linear 16:50:47 gammafunk: I think we shouldn't try to pin down "luring" in gameplay-mechanical terms. This seems to be hard. Instead, randomly making monsters harder will also do the trick -- not every actual luring attempt needs a bezot effect, suffices if the chance is relevant. 16:50:56 but that does make it harder to communicate 16:51:11 I dragged a monster for days and it doesn't go zotzerk 16:51:22 removeelyvilon: have it follow you for a while. It'll happen eventually, and you'll notice when it does. 16:51:24 dpeg: it doesn't even solve the problem though 16:51:27 okay I will try 16:51:33 !messages 16:51:34 (1/1) JimmahDean said (1h 59m 29s ago): If you aren't listening to Parov Stelar, you should be. 16:51:44 He is right. "Catgroove" 16:52:03 removeelyvilon: Actually, it may be harder to notice in tiles right now -- bezotting is noted in the message log and in the monster's name 16:52:05 I mean, while I'm luring a new monster could spawn close buy, but am I going to worry about this 16:52:14 removeelyvilon: so as long as you're keeping an eye on the monster name you'll see it 16:52:21 on the name, got it 16:52:55 sorry for McDrive by 16:53:01 -!- removeelyvilon has quit [Client Quit] 16:53:39 gammafunk: hm, I think I miss something. Do you say that bezotting has no effect on luring, or a wrong effect? 16:53:53 I don't think it has an effect on the player decision to lure or not 16:54:13 I see. 16:54:19 Would it with different numbers? 16:54:22 gammafunk: why not? 16:54:49 well, it would eventually, yes, but I worry about it triggering too spuriously if we use a simple flat chance 16:55:06 gammafunk: agreed re: flat chance; see also the tracking amnesty change I made last night 16:55:29 Lasty_: because 200 turns is on-average is just tremendously generous, I guess 16:55:44 and yeah if you make the chance higher, I'm not sure an actual sweet spot exists there 16:55:52 gammafunk: If it's 200 turns on average, then I am amazingly unlucky 16:56:06 Lasty_: well for a flat chance it would be 16:56:09 ah 16:56:10 gotcha 16:56:31 but that's now what Lasty's formula does, right? 16:56:35 *not 16:56:49 right, but there are issues with players wanting to track monster actions 16:56:50 <|amethyst> when you make noise and that alerts a monster, do they have foe == MHITYOU? 16:57:01 <|amethyst> alerts an off-screen monster 16:57:29 One way to moderate it a bit is to keep the odds the same, but make bezotting a process -- once you trigger the chance, you begin the process, and it plays out over a few turns. That allows players to react to it before it becomes terrible, and it means that it never would trigger on the first turn we check tracking 16:57:40 <|amethyst> I'm wondering whether Qazlalites (for example) have an increased chance of meeting monsters for the first time already bezotted 16:57:45 |amethyst: I was wondering that too, but I failed to check it. I believe they do not 16:58:34 Lasty_: yes, so we'd announce that, right ("The orc is going to bezot real soon")? 16:59:53 dpeg: yeah, probably 17:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:10 gammafunk: are you worried that players will count (or eventually the game would): "This orc has been on your toes for 26 turns, it is going to bezot with X%"? 17:00:33 sure, that's a general concern 17:01:29 I can imagine how you came up with flat chances. 17:04:46 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 17:07:11 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10:31 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 17:11:15 gammafunk: what's wrong with displaying this in xv? 17:11:42 -!- oseph has quit [Quit: okbyebye] 17:11:59 how do you mean? you surely don't want to have to xv each monster to know where the are wrt bezotting 17:13:25 do you have to know this very often? in my games, I don't 17:13:55 in your games? I don't understand 17:13:58 <|amethyst> the question isn't so much "do you have to?", but "is it advantageous to?" 17:13:59 this is not currently a thing 17:15:24 right, I don't want to have an advantage confered if I xv (or otherwise track) each monster 17:17:30 I understand 17:18:10 -!- snux has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:19:10 if you are willing to agree that bezotting is a good concept, this might be salvaged by making the chances discrete (so we can more easily explain them) 17:20:24 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 17:21:16 well, there's still some overall questions about where this mechanic will lead, I haven't though too much about that as I'm sure Lasty and you have 17:21:37 is it part of replacing our food forward-progress clock with something ultimately better? 17:21:38 I have to run off, but I'd like to explore this further. I'm convinced that we can come up with a good triggering condition. 17:21:40 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:21:53 ok, I'm sure I'll get to play it at some point 17:22:03 my crawl backlog is getting horrifying... 17:22:19 I blame ffmpeg 17:22:45 what is ffmpeg? 17:23:04 <|amethyst> your evil codec cousin 17:23:11 argh! 17:23:36 gammafunk: yes, as I understand it, for Lasty the monster changes are part of the doom clock 17:24:11 gammafunk: I definitely see what you mean, perhaps you can give the branch a spin on CBRO, so you can see what the naive (not counting turns) gameplay is like 17:27:27 <|amethyst> while I do appreciate the conceptual simplicity and the analysis-resistance of a fixed per-turn probability, I'm not sure whether a geometric distribution of time-to-bezotting is necessarily the "best" 17:27:37 it's probably not workable is my feeling 17:27:57 fixed per-turn probability, that is 17:28:27 hm, perhaps with pretty small chances and smallish effect 17:28:37 but yeah there are obviously other approaches 17:28:50 like Lasty said, making it a multiple-turn process 17:28:52 is one approach 17:29:42 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 17:29:52 <|amethyst> if we wanted a 63% chance to bezot after 2000 tracking turns for example 17:30:02 <|amethyst> that doesn't necessarily mean we want a 1/2000 chance after one turn 17:30:10 well to be clear 17:30:13 <|amethyst> or 2200 and 201 17:30:21 we're talking 200 turns, right? 2000 aut 17:30:51 2000 normal player turns is not a reasonable time period to being anti-luring mechanics 17:31:06 <|amethyst> sure, 200, 1/200 17:31:09 since you can clear an entire level in much less than this (and our OOD timer triggers in less time than this) 17:31:33 -!- stibbi has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:32:08 yeah, bezotting after one monster turn feels pretty bad, too; obviously it would be a rare instance, not unlike a monster spawning with a zerk pot (if it's sufficiently rare) 17:32:44 to take the edge off 17:33:00 let's go the Majora's Mask route 17:33:09 how does that go? 17:33:10 the moon is going to crash into the dungeon at the end of 3 days... 17:33:23 <|amethyst> I assume "amnesty" means the first N turns don't count; but once you have that you have a state for the player to track, and you lose the advantage of a fixed per-turn probability 17:33:27 but you can play a tune to reset the counter, you just lose progress 17:33:33 <|amethyst> where by "turn" I mean "monster action" 17:33:48 gammafunk: bezotting right away is bad, but less bad than a berserk monster 17:34:06 dpeg: I mean it is, but it's pretty bad 17:34:29 sure, in my games it made me stop in my tracks :) 17:34:50 if it were not too common that this happened (very early bezotting), then it'd be livable, I suppose 17:36:05 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 17:37:35 btw, I have also suggested to make absdepth a parameter: I don't mind being cruel to a midgame character (who has tools and a god etc.), and we think that the early game is hard and reasonably well balanced (do we think that?), so it might make sense to have the bezotting chance increase with depth, or to decrease the amnesty with depth etc. 17:38:38 dpeg: that seems like exactly the opposite of what you'd want 17:38:40 dpeg: well, now you're starting to use this mechanic for something else 17:38:43 <|amethyst> is the goal to reduce luring in the mid- to -late-game? 17:38:50 <|amethyst> s/-late/late/ 17:38:50 pillar dancing etc. are most used in the very very early game 17:38:55 this is exactly the problem with have with food costs 17:39:06 s/with/we/ 17:39:10 hm, perhaps I had better not written that ... I retract it 17:39:18 can't. irc. 17:39:33 going to add your message to my tavern signature 17:39:47 :) 17:40:14 ontoclasm: not sure about "exactly opposite" but I see what you mean 17:40:19 dpeg: no, but if balance were a concern, surely we'd just buff the monsters in those areas 17:40:26 yes 17:40:31 not use an anti-luring / forward progress mechanism to buff them 17:41:01 -!- Ququman has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:09 I was blinded by the fact that I only start luring later on in my games. That's base for reosonable claims! 17:41:13 *no base 17:41:16 :D 17:41:21 hrm 17:41:30 well luring is especially common in nasty vaults 17:41:31 -!- DubDrop is now known as fdjkaldfjhlgkafg 17:41:32 like elf:3 17:41:46 and various vaults in depths, zot 17:41:47 -!- fdjkaldfjhlgkafg is now known as filthyDD 17:41:52 yeah, I also do it a lot in open levels like Lair 17:42:17 yeah it's fairly common in mid-game when monster density just gets really high 17:42:26 and I hate it :) 17:42:28 or just for really nasty spawns 17:42:40 (not the monster density, I hate me when I lure) 17:42:54 * dpeg flagellates himself for a bit. 17:42:56 i think i do far more luring in the very early game 17:43:19 it's more common the less powerful you are relative to the average monster, which of course is much more the case in early game 17:43:19 some in elf:$ and snake:$, especially if you count killholing 17:43:34 he says he doesn't lure in spider. liar. 17:43:47 he does it! I'll queue up the tvs! 17:43:52 luring in spider is hard enough already 17:44:02 they're so fast and bitey! 17:44:13 I have my handy list of amalloy tvs I try to deploy whenever he makes an argument 17:44:24 I do this for all players with a lower splatratio than me, btw 17:44:26 that's the only kind of internet fame i need 17:44:28 -!- filthyDD is now known as help 17:44:40 <|amethyst> in the early game, as a bad player, I do quite a bit of "pillar dance because I let the monster get adjacent and energy randomization might let me escape without taking a hit, or regenerate enough that I can take the hit" 17:44:57 -!- help is now known as Guest12486 17:45:03 |amethyst: do you enjoy that? I hate it too :) 17:45:08 <|amethyst> I do not, but 17:45:09 (I do it on characters I care about.) 17:45:23 -!- Guest12486 is now known as filthy 17:45:24 <|amethyst> I'm not sure I would enjoy "oh, the monster got adjacent, ctrl-q" 17:45:46 the joy of quitting... 17:46:24 <|amethyst> or "pillar dance in the hope of regenerating enough before the monster bezots" 17:46:28 I did a cogmind stream, and the dev and some veteran players were in my chat 17:46:42 I didn't like what happened to my character due to mistakes made on my part 17:46:44 so I quit 17:46:48 haha 17:46:52 excellent style! 17:46:52 their reaction was excellent 17:47:18 tell us 17:47:45 I'm overselling it, it was just them expressing mild frustration 17:47:46 |amethyst: this is really a problem coming from "regain HP over time" but let's agree to suppress that for now :) 17:47:49 if you ask me the problem is that a) we have hp regen but b0 it's stupidly slow, especially early on 17:48:04 b)* 17:48:07 if there were no hp regen, there's no problem 17:48:11 +1 17:48:18 if hp regen is fast, then you don't have to pillar dance for long 17:48:26 remove every species but DD 17:48:34 the PleasingFungus dream... 17:48:42 amalloy: you will laugh, but I invented DD to see how/if this might work in Crawl 17:49:02 it's almost amusing to me when people make dpeg rants 17:49:10 and aren't aware of all the ideas he's gotten into crawl 17:49:14 quite heavy-handed, I'll immediately admit that... wouldn't cry if they got lost 17:49:37 gammafunk: *blush* 17:49:46 I've heard rants arguing how (A) is ridiculous and shows how stupid the devs are and (B) is exactly what crawl needs more of 17:49:55 (A) and (B) both being concieved of by dpeg 17:50:18 This game needs an iron fist!!! 17:51:12 amalloy: I think a proper statement is this: if someone develops a roguelike from scratch, I would *strongly* suggest to dispense with HP/MP/anything regain over time 17:51:26 -!- Kranix has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:51:54 I'm sure the new games on the block happily explore the possibilities. 17:53:02 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 17:53:13 yeah, cogmind's approach is to give you core integrity that's quite high, but it only refilled when you exit the current (non-revisitable) level 17:53:29 most levels you also evolve, which in part increases your max core integrity 17:53:41 yes, that's one good way (assumes you cannot revisit levels), other are (a) consumables only and (b) HP from kills 17:53:43 and some levels are branches, so you get no refill, and you'd better survive that branch with your current integrity 17:54:25 yeah, Cogmind sounds so cool, I read a bit about it after your endorsement... will play it once it is released 17:54:27 imbroglio is a fun take on 'hp from kills' 17:54:52 imbroglio? 17:54:57 dpeg: worth playing before the release, it's at a very polished state, and the next alpha (the 13th, comes out like the 17th this month) 17:55:00 <|amethyst> another possibility is very fast healing but not while you're engaged, for whatever "engaged" means 17:55:10 he's delaying formal release until he can work out all the business stuff he wants to do 17:55:28 gammafunk: poor guy, sounds like fun is over then... he is living from this� 17:55:31 ? 17:55:37 |amethyst: yes, but harder 17:55:39 heh, indeed 17:55:48 dpeg: and zxc is bugging him every day for changes 17:56:15 a life like in hell :) 17:56:40 |amethyst: clunky, clunky, clunky! 17:56:43 also fun: is bugging him every day for change 17:56:43 so inelegant... 17:56:57 -!- bannakaf_ has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 17:57:02 hrm, re what |amethyst said, a non-clunky benefit is that you can tactically rest 17:57:23 I mean if it's quite fast, it's not unlike the kind of "personal shield" thing you see in some FPS 17:57:30 100Rogues had all battle confined to rooms, that allows for an easy definition of "engaged" 17:57:34 his version specifically had "while you're not engaged" 17:57:38 <|amethyst> to me it's a more generalised form of the cogmind thing 17:57:48 dpeg: also allows for easily just letting you full-heal after a room is over 17:57:49 <|amethyst> where there "engaged" means "on the same floor" 17:58:03 <|amethyst> or "not in the process of taking stairs" I guess 17:58:06 Pleasingfungus: well, to continue the fps analogy, you take cover and wait for your shield to recharge before shooting again 17:58:22 so many good ideas, and here we sit on this fossil of a game, mashing 5 mindlessly to heal up 17:58:22 with the right tactical game it could work, but yeah not my first choice either 17:58:34 dpeg: that's because it's a fun game 17:58:37 messed up... but true?? 17:58:38 desktop dungeons 17:58:44 exploring new squares gives regen 17:58:49 Pleasingfungus: plus we own the flavour! 17:58:51 :P 17:58:55