00:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:06 since no one's told me anything really bad about frogs, and since i absolutely refuse to read gdd, i should just rename and merge them. 00:00:15 you must read it 00:00:21 no way 00:00:22 I'm reading this comment by dynast in that thread 00:00:23 i'm not going to read it, gamma. 00:00:25 add a gnoll race 00:00:25 huge comment 00:00:30 best comment I've ever read 00:00:32 in my life. 00:00:37 frogs are excellent 00:00:39 I support merge 00:00:43 right there, in the thread, the comment to end all comments 00:00:50 does it say 'merge the frog race' 00:01:03 I'm going to do this 00:01:06 Here is some negative feedback: 00:01:06 I played a FrHu and, due to extremely bad luck through most of the early game(no potions on the first floors, lack of resources in general), i had to stairdance a lot, specially in lair, so the only point of hopping early was to drag foes away from the stairs then hop to it, go down somewhere else and fight until getting overran again and repeating. When my feets grew stronger i started using hop 00:01:12 more for the purpose of my build, that was to get a better positioning to fire from afar, or just to break LoS from some summoner/smiter and escape from nets/webs. It felt better than playing a frail spriggan but similar to some PoG abuser, except you couldnt abuse it. 00:01:16 http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/ ... 221105.txt 00:01:17 the gdd thread was just "they should have a tongue attack" or something last i saw 00:01:19 I dont see the point of "cripple+bandage" race ideas, cant frogs just be slow, or just be able to hop and move normally? When you play Naga you are slow and that is it. The whole gimmick of a naga is to watch where you stay or where you go, while frog's gimmick is "get ready to hop". 00:01:24 Frogs could benefit from better stealth apt. 00:01:28 that was maybe the cyc one? 00:01:37 oh you're talking about gdd specifically 00:01:43 -!- saty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:01:44 i remember you mentioned the stealth apt thing 00:01:53 the cyc thread got very distracted but was never very focused 00:02:03 and i don't think anyone in it actually played the race 00:02:18 I know quite a few people have played it, but yeah maybe not so many have left feedback 00:02:30 !lg * frog x=cdist(name) 00:02:30 that first 'negative feedback' does not actually sound bad 00:02:31 265 games for * (frog): cdist(name)=95 00:02:49 !lg * frog s=name 00:02:50 265 games for * (frog): 39x fooot, 23x Rassilon, 15x avis, 12x acwest, 10x Fear, 7x GreatCaesar, 7x Jarlyk2, 6x Spurious, 6x TwoGrow, 6x Jigokuson, 6x someotherguy6, 5x LogicNinja, 4x rageheart7, 4x lagrange, 4x removeelyvilon, 4x ILikeToCheiChei, 3x someotherguy6alt, 3x Shard1697, 3x Duffy, 3x TittyCrusher, 3x gressup, 3x puissantveil, 2x Papayamessiah, 2x Hellonello, 2x Vajrapani, 2x Ironfoot, 2... 00:02:51 i hear someone was looking for negative feedback 00:02:56 wow, fooot for days 00:03:04 !hs fooot frog 00:03:06 39. fooot the Champion of Chaos (L21 FrFi of Makhleb), blasted by a deep elf annihilator (crystal spear) (kmap: minmay_elf_hall_not_hex) on Elf:3 on 2016-12-29 14:37:56, with 302229 points after 45280 turns and 2:05:35. 00:03:08 wonder if fooot knows about mooon 00:03:17 !lg ILikeToCheiChei s=god 00:03:18 130 games for ILikeToCheiChei: 78x, 52x Cheibriados 00:03:24 okay, i can respect that. 00:04:06 "IMO Naga seems more like a "take this penalty for a bunch of really, really awesome stuff" race more than a challenge race. I kinda wish Frog had that same thing. 00:04:14 thanked by Sar. big. 00:04:45 right now, frogs are 'take these penalties for one really awesome thing'. 00:05:02 naga doesnt even have one awesome thing lol 00:05:18 hey, poison spit can kill 00:05:19 Edit: also, I assume that you'd rather get feedback on how Frogs do in postgame than have me just finish this three-rune FrBe of Qaz I've got sitting in Zot:4? 00:05:24 uh. several enemies 00:05:25 wow, poor speleothing 00:05:26 sometimes 00:05:28 its just slow + poison spit + i guess you have better defenses than other races in the super ultra super late game 00:05:35 <|amethyst> I was going to go for stability-in-shallow-water 00:05:36 asking a question that shall never be answered... 00:05:40 -!- wheals_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:05:50 !lg speleothing frog 00:05:51 2. Speleothing the Froggy Blade (L27 FrBe of Qazlal), blasted by an orb of fire (fireball) (kmap: hall_of_Zot) on Zot:5 on 2017-01-03 21:03:51, with 744654 points after 74995 turns and 7:36:35. 00:05:54 rip 00:05:54 rip 00:05:57 i think he decided. 00:06:13 fwiw i don't think frog hop is all that great a thing in exchange for the drawbacks 00:06:21 I bet if you'd joined in and said "naw dawg go right for 15 runes m8" he'd have won 00:06:35 i guess the drawbacks aren't that big either 00:07:38 (seriously though why does naga get the second worst AC in the game after felid) 00:07:47 <|amethyst> btw, Batrachos before Anurid 00:07:51 (and octopode i guess idk why i forgot about octopode) 00:07:51 !apt na 00:07:52 Na: Fighting: 0, Short: 0, Long: 0, Axes: 0, Maces: 0, Polearms: 0, Staves: 0, Slings: -1, Bows: -1, Xbows: -1, Throw: -1, Armour: -2, Dodge: -2, Stealth: 5!, Shields: -2, UC: 0, Splcast: -1, Conj: 0, Hexes: 0, Charms: 0, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 0, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: 0, Earth: 0, Poison: 3!, Inv: 1, Evo: 0, Exp: 0, HP: 2, MP: 0 00:08:00 minmay: they're very sneaky. 00:08:03 |amethyst really liked the Ba prefix 00:08:04 octopodes. 00:08:06 every species starts with at least 2 AC except for naga, octopode, and felid 00:08:26 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:08:28 and naga also starts with bad EV 00:08:46 |amethyst: how did you feel about 'Vrekekex' 00:08:53 so you have unambiguously the worst AC/EV in the game at xl1 and you are also slow 00:08:54 possibly the kek is dangerous in a modern climate... 00:08:56 <|amethyst> Pleasingfungus: kek 00:08:58 haha 00:09:05 Vrececex? hrm 00:09:10 Vrekukex 00:09:11 <|amethyst> Pleasingfungus: Ribbits? 00:09:16 Vribbits 00:09:19 !makewords Ri 00:09:21 greek ribbits 00:09:23 the best kind 00:09:28 RiAE RiAK RiAM RiAr RiAs RiBe RiCK RiCj RiEE RiEn RiFE RiFi RiGl RiHu RiIE RiMo RiNe RiSk RiSu RiTm RiVM RiWn RiWr RiWz 00:09:30 -!- destroythecore has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:09:30 <|amethyst> I fear with minmay's suggestion they may form a clan 00:09:50 i believe that minmay's suggestion had a very specific intention. 00:09:51 RiSk 00:09:58 call them Kermits so that people get really confused when they're looking at sequell stats for KeAE 00:10:02 haha 00:10:10 gammafunk: no one's calling them ribbits, neil was defining the greek word "vrekekex" 00:10:31 <|amethyst> Pleasingfungus: no, I was suggesting to call them "Ribbits" in English 00:10:35 o 00:10:38 gammafunk: i was wrong 00:10:41 please note this in your diary 00:10:45 as it is a first 00:10:57 I will plan a rant about that 00:11:02 -!- laj1 has quit [Changing host] 00:11:19 second billing after "amalloy sucks at coding for real tho" 00:11:21 minmay: were you ever going to say the negative thing 00:11:28 or did i miss it 00:12:03 <|amethyst> ︼earn add hapax_legomenon <+Pleasingfungus> minmay: were you ever going to say the negative thing 00:12:03 Okay, not adding hapax_legomenon => <+Pleasingfungus> minmay: were you ever going to say the negative thing 00:12:21 (this is a bit tricky. 'may is famously reluctant to say negative things, so you have to really coax them out of him) 00:12:55 the same joke... 00:12:59 you have to make some assertion first 00:13:05 "Frog hop is OP" 00:13:19 the right assertion triggers the negative feedback 00:14:12 a few people are saying they'd appreciate more precision with Hop (e.g. 3x3) but I'm not seeing a super compelling reason behind that 00:14:41 perhaps it's due to the fact that the slow+bad stats feels nasty and people just want it to be more powerful 00:14:45 yeah, it's already pretty precise/reliable if you use it well 00:14:48 <|amethyst> what goes up with level? 00:14:51 <|amethyst> just range? 00:14:52 range 00:15:25 <|amethyst> could increase accuracy later 00:15:37 "I really want them to have lesser beconing, flavored as a tongue grab. 00:15:42 thanked by dynast 00:15:44 <|amethyst> instead of some of the range 00:16:09 amazingly tabstorm isn't in this thread saying "remember when lesser beckoning was good?" 00:16:14 i feel like one regularly-useful active ability is enough for a race 00:16:17 like he has been every game the last month 00:16:24 oh, i had no idea that was a meme 00:16:50 like, formicids have tunneling (commonly useful) and shaft (less regularly useful), and i think that's about as much as you want 00:17:08 yeah, frequent + infrequent is nice when you have multiple abilities 00:17:12 frequent + frequent not nice 00:17:30 ^ Trog the game designer speaking 00:17:30 "Starting as a tadpole (fast move early, mid move by temple, slow move by lair with some stat boost and hop to compensate) would be fun and fits the "make midgame harder" meme and makes frog casters... playable." 00:17:33 I do think having one "fluff" ability is nice for a species, it gives them something to round them out. amphibiousness and flight for mf/te aren't really crucial to the race or anything but it gives it... "fullness" I guess? 00:17:34 didn't |amethyst suggest this 00:17:40 -!- laj1 has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:17:45 no it was, uh, johnstein? 00:17:45 Pleasingfungus: I really just said that as a joke about my (perceived) over-negativity, the only feedback i have on frogs is that i have the same concern as the "cripple+bandage" person 00:17:46 i think 00:17:52 he had an old tadpole design 00:17:59 that could turn into salamanders or frogs? 00:18:00 -!- laj1 has quit [Changing host] 00:18:08 Pleasingfungus: disadvantage + advantage that compensates is better than disadvantage + advantage that mitigates 00:18:20 -!- laj1 has quit [Client Quit] 00:18:23 yeah, poster above was suggesting that + remove the bad stats, I guess 00:18:29 -!- darkschneider has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:18:33 can you elaborate on the compensate/mitigate distinction? i don't undersand 00:18:38 *understand 00:18:52 -!- darkschneider has joined ##crawl-dev 00:19:01 removing bad stats on frogs sounds like playerthink 00:19:01 it makes it end up feeling like a wash overall, if their bonus is specifically to compensate for their drawback 00:19:20 Pleasingfungus: like, if naga had an ability to get a temporary burst of movement speed (like tengu), it would make them stronger, but it would make their slowness disadvantage a lot less meaningful 00:20:01 giving them advantages in areas other than movement, like AC and stats and hp and poison spit, is more interesting (even if the AC boost doesn't really work right now because they have the worst AC at low xls lol) 00:20:02 ah, i think i see. so you'd want the tradeoff for hopping to be something completely orthogonal 00:20:07 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:20:31 yes, exactly. hop/blink/etc. are uncomfortably close to "here's a way to make your movement less slow" to me 00:20:36 i get where you're coming from. 00:20:56 when i was designing frogs, i was thinking about it the other way. the point of slow movement is to put *more* emphasis on hopping 00:20:58 <|amethyst> merge frog and cyno 00:21:04 cyno? 00:21:06 hopping is more valuable *because* they move slowly 00:21:24 hopping would be very valuable on a normal speed race still though 00:21:27 sure 00:21:35 <|amethyst> Brannock: Floodkiller's race with a lower max for skill levels 00:21:37 and that logic applies equally to the imaginary naga speed boost ability 00:21:38 ah yeah 00:21:47 the point of naga is the slow movement 00:21:49 that's the core idea of the race 00:21:54 the point of frogs is the hop 00:22:11 they specifically aren't trying to compete with nagas for the slow movement 'niche' 00:22:41 i agree with you - if you gave nagas a fast movement ability, they'd no longer be 'about' slow movement 00:23:03 MarvinPA: i'm not saying that the slow movement is essential, just that i think it's a fun combo with hop 00:23:06 ah. slow movement makes it seem like they're trying to - it's something that applies on the majority of the turns in the game after all 00:23:43 minmay: yeah, i get that! 00:24:06 right now, they're significantly less slow than nagas, and of course, as discussed, they have the hop, which makes the slow movement less important :) 00:24:13 so i don't *think* they're eating into naga niche too badly 00:24:20 -!- Enthusiasm has quit [Client Quit] 00:24:27 so it's going to be the players that decide what a species is "about" - fedhas was about ranged combat or something initially but in gameplay fedhas is about killing dangerous monsters with mushrooms 00:24:33 don't feel too similar in play, at least 00:24:44 heh 00:24:46 well, wrt to Hop being the point of the race, I'd not take that to mean I want to Hop in every fight, given the targetting that this ability entails 00:24:56 no 00:25:05 crap, double t in targeting 00:25:10 forgive me, I have sinned 00:25:10 lol 00:25:36 is either spelling even in dictionaries 00:25:48 targeting is, targetting isn't, iirc 00:25:55 <|amethyst> they both are 00:25:58 what. no 00:26:09 MarvinPA has lied to us 00:26:20 <|amethyst> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/targetting 00:26:27 huh 00:26:28 <|amethyst> " 00:26:28 <|amethyst> (British) Obsolete spelling of targeting 00:26:30 verbing weirds language 00:26:31 <|amethyst> Misspelling of targeting. 00:26:49 g*d bless 00:27:26 <|amethyst> those were supposed to have 1. and 2. respectively 00:28:27 are jewellery and artefact the actual british spellings of those two words? 00:28:35 i mean, i'll accept that armour 00:28:53 and anything else that ends in "or" in american english ends in "our" 00:29:05 -!- Brannock has left ##crawl-dev 00:29:33 <|amethyst> they are actual british spellings, though probably not the only ones 00:29:33 yes 00:29:34 ProzacElf: yes 00:29:39 administratour 00:29:48 ProzacElf: I believe the answer is, in the affirmative, Yes. 00:29:49 exactly 00:29:58 -!- ig0rb1t has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:30:10 alligatour 00:30:21 wow, I thought artefact was just some bizarro word some dev made up 00:30:24 vibratour 00:30:27 haha 00:30:29 to both of those 00:30:46 artefact vs artifact i think i've seen both (in whatever rare cases i see that it used outside crawl i guess) 00:30:55 jewelry just looks super wrong and weird 00:30:57 <|amethyst> I have seen some people who use "artefact" for something made by people and "artifact" for misleading patterns in data 00:31:06 <|amethyst> s/seen/encountered/ 00:31:16 <|amethyst> or maybe it was the other way around? 00:31:16 i've only ever seen "artifact" 00:31:23 in either the fantasy or scientific sense 00:31:28 jewelry is how i hear it spoken, fwiw 00:31:36 |amethyst: i've seen that usage 00:31:55 <|amethyst> ProzacElf: have you ever noticed what happens when you go to the Wikipedia page on aluminum? 00:32:00 once you accept that languages are the abstract equivalent of the stuff that grows in a shower if you never clean it, it becomes a lot easier to reconcile these things 00:32:02 i have seen some shopfronts proclaiming to be jewellers 00:32:22 |amethyst they actually pronounce it the way they spell it in britain though 00:32:26 <|amethyst> heh 00:32:28 alu - min -i -um 00:32:57 i mean, granted, we also pronounce it the way we spell it in murica 00:33:14 <|amethyst> if we spelled it with an "oo" instead of a "u" 00:33:48 we pretty rarely pronounce a long 'u' like 'yoo' though 00:34:01 -!- M-bbigras has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:34:05 at least inside a word 00:34:21 <|amethyst> just after dentals (n t d l) and maybe a few others 00:34:28 <|amethyst> "cute" doesn't yod-drop 00:35:00 heh 00:35:39 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 00:36:08 |amethyst: rewinding a bit: i guess my issue with 'batrachian' is (a) it's a bit too much 'in line' with formicid - too much like doing the same thing again - and (b) people are gonna think they're bats, briefly 00:36:35 how about "Seafolk" 00:36:36 <|amethyst> Pleasingfungus: probably, but in that case "anurid" is even worse :) 00:36:54 minmay: i'm still vaguely hoping to remove the amphibiousness at some point 00:37:01 <|amethyst> Pleasingfungus: I was only proposing an alternative to "anurid", not necessarily the best name for the race 00:37:10 since i feel like two amphibious races is more than enough (though i know that brannock disagrees) 00:37:17 <|amethyst> going back to the abysstouched thing 00:37:19 Pleasingfungus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1H1GAiFdis 00:37:31 |amethyst: well, what are you waiting for! propose the best name already! 00:37:33 <|amethyst> what if, instead of being slow, they could only worship Lugonu? 00:37:38 minmay: lol 00:37:42 Pleasingfungus: some sort of fae maybe 00:37:51 faeries blink right 00:37:54 |amethyst: :( 00:37:56 permanent shoutitis 00:38:06 <|amethyst> I guess that is problematic in several ways 00:38:09 and blurry vision 00:38:14 frogs can only see motion 00:38:18 well 00:38:19 new species: butter fairy 00:38:22 only see motion *well* 00:38:37 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:38:47 give them glamour 00:38:51 <|amethyst> Pleasingfungus: hm, I think basically anything that is "humanoid animal" starts stepping on Op and also making console players think the wrong thing about Fe 00:39:28 what's "humanoid" about op? 00:39:34 <|amethyst> err 00:39:40 hats? 00:39:43 <|amethyst> I guess that's true 00:39:52 the argument is that, if we have animal-man races, that's a problem for our animal-animal races? except that formicids don't count? 00:39:58 <|amethyst> formicids 00:40:02 <|amethyst> that's what I was thinking of 00:40:07 manimal 00:40:31 admittedly "animalperson" is kinda overdone 00:40:55 oh shit 00:40:58 we have birdpeople and catpeople and octopuspeople and dragonpeople and snakepeople and fishpeople 00:41:05 and horsepeople 00:41:13 oh yes 00:41:16 and godpeople and demonpeople 00:41:17 so i can't channel dr octagon and pitch half-shark-alligator/half-man? 00:41:21 are gods animals 00:41:34 and now antpeople and drainspoutpeople 00:41:52 and dogpeople and whatever the hell vine stalker is 00:41:57 brilliant idea: the abysstouched/corrupted are a species of messed-up elves. you could call them... sludge elves 00:41:57 people has ceased to look like a word now 00:42:00 plant people 00:42:08 plant = animal here 00:42:09 minmay: plant corpse parasite people 00:42:30 fungoloids 00:42:35 oh 00:42:39 don't forget rockpeople 00:42:41 we have rockpeople 00:42:49 <|amethyst> ProzacElf: "drainspoutpeople" 00:42:53 rocks also being a type of animal 00:42:54 ahh 00:42:55 yes 00:42:56 of course 00:42:59 -!- debo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:42:59 we grow turgid. violent action ensues. 00:43:05 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 00:43:15 <|amethyst> !!! 00:43:18 wup, i guess that's happening 00:43:18 a gargoyle, by definition, has a spout in it 00:43:20 are we not men? 00:43:26 we are dbo 00:43:29 de 00:43:38 which i suppose explains how they use blowguns 00:43:42 sort of 00:43:49 gargoyles are really, really best not thought about too hard 00:43:59 even moreso than most crawl things 00:45:58 i mean 00:46:00 most gargoyles are pretty hard 00:46:24 lol 00:46:31 consider that a viable fighting style for them is to intentionally explode themselves and hope that chunks of their arms hit someone 00:48:10 that's hardly without real-life historical precedent 00:48:32 03PleasingFungus02 {GitHub} 07* 0.20-a0-434-g93bceec: Mention ghoul non-fullness in the manual (Yermak) 10(10 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/93bceec0f6e0 00:48:56 <|amethyst> "historical"? 00:50:37 george washington once LRDed himself 00:50:44 fact 00:50:51 you know the saboteurs you get in that one mongol mission in age of empires 2 00:51:17 i like where this is going 00:53:23 |amethyst: spinning the bikeshed a little more, i guess i currently lean toward frogs over abyssguys because (a) they're a bit simpler, and (b) [more importantly] i think 'hopping' has better playfeel than 'warping' or 'jaunting' or w/e we'd call the non-frog version of the ability 00:53:30 it's more concrete, more physical 00:54:38 and "jumping" was way too much fun to apply to felids 00:54:39 or boots 00:54:42 =p 00:54:43 ya 00:54:55 basically i'm just setting this race up for gammafunk to remove it 00:55:39 you who forget who *actually* commited HE removal 00:55:50 I was merely a vessel.... 00:55:52 vesel? 00:56:02 vessel. 00:56:02 who removed jumpboots 00:56:16 probably me 00:56:19 probably 00:56:20 ps bring back spiderboots 00:57:16 can uh...you stop using Pleasingfungus' irc now, nrook? 00:57:26 lol 00:58:14 spiderboots? 00:58:37 unrand that gave player clinging 00:58:42 heh 00:59:35 how very niche 01:00:00 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:21 -!- Harudoku has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:07:01 here's a bad idea: how about if frogs have apportation as their tongue active ability 01:07:19 alternately, give them that disarming passive from the J mut 01:07:57 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:10:10 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-434-g93bceec (34) 01:10:36 problem with apportation: (a) encourages ranged characters (ew), (b) giving it an exhaust timer encourages weird tactics with berserkitis probably 01:11:18 er, that's assuming it's on an exhaust timer. i guess it could be on, like, breath? for some reason? 01:11:38 if it's not on a timer then it's probably actually good, which would be awful 01:13:29 note that existing apportation is already free 01:13:45 i hear existing apport is secretly good 01:13:53 also it costs... 1 mp. and tloc skill if you're in armour 01:14:23 remove apportation, make tornado pull items towards the center so that you can still conveniently go through zig loot 01:15:27 haha 01:15:42 make shatter shake good items to the tops of piles 01:15:52 fire storm instantly destroys junk items. 01:19:11 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-434-g93bceec (34) 01:19:32 fire storm used to burn scrolls, and shatter used to destroy potions on the ground 01:21:00 see, that's real game balance. 01:21:09 devs these days only know how to... remove.... 01:22:19 there was a suggestion someone put on the dev wiki saying that fire storm and shatter were overpowered, and to balance them, both spells should destroy both potions and scrolls, instead of just one of the two consumable categories 01:22:29 dev wiki is very good 01:22:36 they werent a dev thank god 01:22:48 i think i went through the proposed monster list once looking for good ideas 01:23:20 i *did* find entertainment... 01:27:40 -!- TuxQmoob has quit [Changing host] 01:30:11 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:31:18 how perverse 01:33:19 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Changing host] 01:33:19 -!- TuxQmoob has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:33:44 hrm, someone should probably tweak the dat/descript/species.txt entries for ko/ha at some point 01:34:24 minmay: wh- 01:35:35 -!- ahahaha has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:42:16 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:42:35 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Changing host] 01:45:18 |amethyst: how about 'barachian'? 01:46:34 'mario' 01:47:02 i feel like "cartoon italian" might be a somewhat problematic theme 01:47:17 also, surely we'd have to allow goomba stomping 01:47:39 'ogmo' 01:50:12 dang, throwback ref here 01:51:15 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 01:52:20 -!- Taraiph has left ##crawl-dev 01:52:47 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:55:08 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507]] 01:57:49 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-434-g93bceec 01:58:29 -!- debo_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:58:29 -!- debo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59:00 -!- debo_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59:57 !tell pleasingfungus: obama, the barachian politician 01:59:57 Sorry CanOfWorms, I don't know who pleasingfungus: is. 02:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:03 !tell pleasingfungus obama, the barachian politician 02:00:03 CanOfWorms: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 02:00:48 (bless your heart) 02:02:04 -!- Enthusiasm has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 02:02:59 har 02:03:28 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 02:08:57 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 02:18:53 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 02:27:31 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 02:31:03 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:18 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:32:49 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:45:59 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:48:39 -!- lupus83 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:49:55 -!- dextar has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:52:49 -!- Smello has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:54:02 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-434-g93bceec 03:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:56 -!- jehoesefat has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:04:41 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:13:10 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-434-g93bceec (34) 03:21:31 -!- debo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:23:32 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 03:23:54 !messages 03:23:55 (1/1) Lasty said (4h 56m 21s ago): !lg lasty 876 x=dur versus !lg lasty 877 x=dur. 2 hrs versus 5 hrs. 03:23:56 -!- TZer0 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:24:18 huh? 03:24:37 I don't understand ircspeak, that's cryptic as hell 03:25:13 telling you to compare the output of two sequell commands, x=dur requests duration. 03:25:42 for lasty's 876th and 877th games, respectively 03:26:46 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:26:55 -!- TZer0 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:36:37 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:56:34 lasty always encodes secret messages in his Sequell statistics 03:56:58 examine the right fields and you can read his secret dev todo list 04:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:14:16 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 04:18:31 -!- darkschneider has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:18:49 -!- darkschneider has joined ##crawl-dev 04:21:00 -!- mad0wk is now known as mad0wl 04:21:06 -!- mad0wl is now known as ig0rbit 04:28:13 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 04:29:59 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:38:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:39:53 -!- concrocotta has quit [Quit: Ciao] 04:42:15 -!- ChongLi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:42:31 -!- mibe has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:58:00 -!- Idolo has quit [] 05:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:05:58 -!- Tungsten_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:42:41 -!- staplegun has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:49:01 -!- removeelyvilon has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:53:42 -!- Ge0ff has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:58:09 -!- Yermak has joined ##crawl-dev 06:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:01:36 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:02:08 -!- mibert has joined ##crawl-dev 06:06:58 -!- mibert has quit [Client Quit] 06:07:39 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:10:18 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 06:21:42 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:53 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:31:42 -!- ontoclasm1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:37:05 -!- DDFi has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:51:52 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:04:10 "Don't allow zapping wands while confused" 07:04:15 But monsters are still doing this! 07:04:50 Maurice appears confused. Evoking this partially-identified wand wasted a few charges. _Maurice zaps a wand. 07:08:21 Also, since now wands have variable range, it would be helpful to display this range in description. 07:24:31 -!- Ringbingers has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:25:35 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:33:37 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:39:42 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 07:40:25 -!- debo has quit [Quit: o/] 07:49:37 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 07:58:51 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:08:55 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:49:55 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:57:13 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:41 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:06:46 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:00 -!- Dracunos has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:21:42 -!- Dracunos has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:12 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:53:45 -!- Jarlyk2 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:04:59 Confused monsters are still able to zap wands 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10876 by Yermak 10:04:59 Monsters cast Pain at immune player characters. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10875 by Yermak 10:07:40 -!- chan20 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:13:17 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:13:17 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:13:35 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:18:55 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 10:33:18 -!- Menche has quit [*.net *.split] 10:49:36 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:51:34 !tell canofworms if "thanks, obama" is the worst meme invoked by the name, i think that's a success 10:51:35 Pleasingfungus: OK, I'll let canofworms know. 10:53:06 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 10:58:05 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 11:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:03:59 -!- ddubois_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:29:29 -!- pantaril_ is now known as pantaril 11:29:31 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:40 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 11:33:22 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:42:00 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:53:00 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 11:58:21 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 12:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:27 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:04:03 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:33 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-434-g93bceec (34) 12:13:45 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:20:07 -!- Hampooj has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:22:44 -!- Uhlv has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:29:12 https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/5lzh5b/offline_console_doesnt_select_previous_character/ this makes me smile 12:29:42 loopi (L15 DrWn) ASSERT(you.see_cell(p)) in 'directn.cc' at line 1170 failed. (Orc:1) 12:30:34 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:51 !crashlog loopi 12:30:52 1. loopi, XL15 DrWn, T:47830 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/loopi/crash-loopi-20170104-172941.txt 12:31:41 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 12:31:57 probably shouldn't be able to see that orc through the wall 12:33:16 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:34:21 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 12:35:11 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:37:19 -!- Uhlv has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:43:16 -!- wheals_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:46:26 -!- wheals_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:48:59 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 13:00:06 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:25 -!- wheals_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:00:39 -!- Uhlv has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:01:58 -!- bannakaffalatta has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:06:30 -!- harambe has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:08:25 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507]] 13:12:51 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:13:52 -!- osune has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:15:06 -!- mroovka has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507]] 13:22:07 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:25:14 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:34:35 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:17 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:54 -!- saty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:39:24 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 13:40:33 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:21 -!- Boatshow has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:49:05 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 13:51:36 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 13:51:39 |amethyst: can the iterator-based random_choose_weighted be merged as is, or do you think it's important to fix all the places that "should" be using it first? i don't want to leave it rotting on a branch forever 13:53:52 -!- MIC132 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:17 -!- MIC132 has quit [Client Quit] 13:54:19 -!- MIC132_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:19 -!- MIC132_ has quit [Client Quit] 13:56:26 -!- Wah has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:30 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:35 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:03:32 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 14:03:32 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:03:55 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:17:22 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:26:58 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 14:31:05 -!- scummos__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:02 -!- xnavy has quit [*.net *.split] 14:36:02 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [*.net *.split] 14:36:02 -!- ByronJohnson has quit [*.net *.split] 14:36:02 -!- Zannick has quit [*.net *.split] 14:36:03 -!- hypermatt has quit [*.net *.split] 14:36:03 -!- unpaidbi1l has quit [*.net *.split] 14:36:03 -!- bstrie has quit [*.net *.split] 14:36:13 -!- bstrie has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:16 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:17 -!- Zannick has quit [Changing host] 14:36:17 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:19 -!- ByronJohnson has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:24 -!- hypermatt has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:48 -!- TAS_2012v has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:54 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 14:42:37 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 14:52:49 -!- Ge0ff has quit [Client Quit] 14:58:34 -!- mibe has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:51 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 15:18:57 -!- diazepan has quit [Quit: diazepan] 15:26:49 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 15:31:47 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:49:16 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:52:45 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 15:55:34 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:13 wow, mon-tentacle.cc is really a goldmine for comments 16:01:39 // Nothing to do here. 16:01:40 // Except fix the tentacle end's pointer, idiot. 16:02:48 alright, I feel decently comfortable with the balance level now, it isn't quite an early game blowout anymore 16:02:59 // Why do I have to do this move? I don't get it. 16:04:40 %git 244ac5fbac6abffc27bce9024c08543bc9e9fa70 16:04:40 07pointless_02 * 0.8.0-a0-490-g244ac5f: Fix some demonic tentacle connectivity breaks 10(6 years ago, 2 files, 56+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/244ac5fbac6a 16:04:40 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 16:04:59 seems to have been the commit that added the idiot comment 16:05:32 heh, i assumed it must've been added on later yeah 16:06:28 %git beef49efaca 16:06:28 07pointless_02 * 0.8.0-a0-450-gbeef49e: Add a "demonic tentacle" monster, refactor tentacle code to support it 10(6 years ago, 8 files, 386+ 44-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/beef49efaca5 16:06:32 also all sorts of excellent error messages for when things go wrong, "link information corruption!!!" added in there is good 16:06:39 and of course the classic "tentacle connect failed! What the heck!" 16:06:43 unsurprisingly, the idiot was himself in the past 16:09:12 tentacle code is horrifying 16:09:29 looks like pointless_ wrote the comment about a move, too. you should send a complimentary letter 16:09:40 %git 24e7e1e5c78e1782c71525897b93e370d08a022b 16:09:40 07pointless_02 * 0.8.0-a0-345-g24e7e1e: Kraken pathfinding/connectivity improvements 10(6 years ago, 1 file, 135+ 92-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/24e7e1e5c78e 16:09:41 -!- Alarkh has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:10:15 tentacles also don't work amazingly well gameplay-wise, but hey they're flavorful 16:10:41 -!- zxc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12:36 i think pointless wrote the vast majority of mon-tentacle.cc yeah 16:13:07 as a Spanish national having tried Basque cuisine, I can attest to the fact that tentacles are flavorful 16:14:00 -!- bgiannan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:16:25 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:31:28 SteelNeuron: btw your updated writeup looks like a significantly better concept to me at a glance 16:32:15 oh, i actually see that it's gained another new ability since i last read it :( 16:32:17 but still 16:32:33 heh, sorry about that 16:32:42 I think it's necessary to fully integrate unarmed 16:32:53 But I'm sure the lost complexity more than makes up for it ;) 16:34:09 the weapon moves sort of look like they got a bit more complicated again since i first read it too, with more special-casing 16:34:36 they would be a lot better if they just did one thing i think (extra damage/apply a status effect) 16:35:42 I'd like that too, but it's quite tricky, since whirlwind is the most natural, followed by lunge 16:35:56 unless I handle them differently, the tendency is to just spam whirlwind, and failing that kite for lunge 16:36:26 to make the three interesting and reduce tedium, I need to make sure whatever whirlwind does isn't stackable, and that lunge can't gain a significant benefit from kiting 16:37:09 I agree they got more complex in that regard, but I'd argue it compensates the fact that they aren't tied to particular weapons now 16:37:43 and since they're separate passives, they can be explained to the player as they advance their piety 16:37:43 MarvinPA, have you tried the god out yet? 16:37:57 well i don't think the fact that they used to be even more extremely complex makes any difference as to whether they're too complex now 16:38:04 i tried the old build briefly 16:38:16 i don't think this new writeup has been pushed yet 16:38:22 nope, I'm working on it 16:39:38 as written, your first passive depends on the second and third so that's definitely not a case of being able to simply explain it as you gain them 16:39:59 Good point, I can change the order if that's a problem 16:40:16 although I... kinda did it on purpose, but not sure it's a good idea 16:40:26 like, you're given this tool, and then you eventually figure out its entire uses 16:44:34 In any case, I don't think "You can attack like this, and cause this status effect" is that complex for a single passive gained on a piety pip 16:44:35 having each passive just do one thing and not change how it works depending on other statuses seems much better, and you could always replace slow with something else to prevent kiting issues 16:45:12 right, that's what i'm saying it should do. not "cause this status effect with a chance depending on other status effects" 16:45:19 hm 16:45:28 okay, what about this middle ground: 16:45:37 whirlwind and walljump both cause distraction 16:45:40 and lunge punishes it 16:45:52 I think lunge being a finisher is necessary 16:46:16 i mean if you're using distraction as a mechanic, then attacks in general punish that since distraction stabs exist 16:46:25 you don't need to implement a new thing that depends on distraction 16:47:17 lunge seems like fundamentally a starter surely, unless you're really expecting people to kite and set up lunges 16:47:21 which seems not great 16:51:12 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-435-gf4ea4dd: Don't display HP/AV/EV for sensed monsters (#10861) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f4ea4ddddd7d 16:51:39 lunge can't really be a starter 16:51:46 that's something that I found out through testing 16:52:02 making it a starter means that you gain a substantial benefit from using it against a fresh enemy 16:52:10 -!- snux has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:52:24 which then means that it's optimal to just walk back until energy randomisation gives you a tile of space 16:53:00 I can't have lunge impart status effects, it needs to be effective against an enemy that is already impaired and unable to chase well 16:54:44 I mean, we're trying to solve the same fundamental problem 16:57:39