00:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:07:11 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:09:22 -!- ProzacElf_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:09:47 -!- n1k has joined ##crawl-dev 00:12:51 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:40:50 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.20-a0-351-gc9b4002: Changelog through 0.20-a0-350-ga83eecc 10(12 seconds ago, 1 file, 24+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c9b4002db311 00:45:29 -!- hallo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:45:51 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:55:27 -!- n1k has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:56:54 -!- cait has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:54 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-351-gc9b4002 (34) 01:13:52 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 01:13:53 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/trunk-updates-23-december-2016 01:14:45 -!- WangHW has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:17:08 wait, autofight_stop is now 50 01:17:22 but thats a line I have to remove from gammafunk.rc, since I use that value 01:17:32 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: EFF YOU DEVS!] 01:19:45 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-351-gc9b4002 (34) 01:28:01 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507]] 01:35:36 -!- Shard1697_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:43:37 -!- WangHW has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:49:44 -!- GhostOfToal has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:53:08 %git :/[Hh]ill [Gg]iant 01:53:08 07Brannock02 * 0.20-a0-283-g5be6507: Generate 2HO more frequently 10(11 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5be650752770 01:54:03 I continue to realize just how horrible I am at this game that I can't understand the hill giant removal. 01:54:06 -!- Gorgo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:56:51 I'm sure it makes perfect sense and probably discussed at length here (I didn't see anything in crd but I don't always get crd emails until way late it seems) 01:57:24 since they always seemed super tough when I'd come across them and 2HO replace them and are significantly stronger, are the 2HO >> HG? 01:59:48 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-351-gc9b4002 02:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:11:36 -!- ProzacElf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:17:01 -!- darkschneider has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:17:41 -!- darkschneider has joined ##crawl-dev 02:23:01 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 02:23:24 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 02:23:56 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:34:52 -!- ProzacElf_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:36:25 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:36:58 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:47:22 -!- tomato has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:52:43 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.20-a0-351-gc9b4002 02:54:07 johnstein: they are (were) basically identical 02:54:13 ...except HG generated way earlier 02:54:39 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:00 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:12:29 -!- zespri has joined ##crawl-dev 03:17:32 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:24:54 Experimental (councilgod-PR) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-545-g8a92c22 03:26:37 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 03:38:06 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-351-gc9b4002 (34) 03:43:50 -!- WangHW has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:51:38 -!- ProzacElf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:27:14 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 04:30:19 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 04:32:28 -!- ProzacElf_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:32:39 -!- Rast has joined ##crawl-dev 04:49:26 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:58:56 i think reddit worships gammafunk as the new wrathful god of deletions: https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/5k1va8/removing_centaurs_and_flight_for_the_addition_of/ 04:58:56 amalloy: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 04:59:18 !tell pleasingfungus i didn't do anything about fedhas piety, no 04:59:19 amalloy: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 05:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:08 !tell gammafunk you simply have to breathe the word "remove", and reddit reacts with terror, because they know you are a heartless remover: https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/5k1va8/removing_centaurs_and_flight_for_the_addition_of/ 05:00:08 amalloy: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 05:04:27 amalloy: time for La! 05:05:47 -!- jefus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:13:53 -!- ProzacElf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:18:19 -!- n1k has joined ##crawl-dev 05:21:21 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:28:35 frogs is bad lore since you'll need to write new adjectives for them crouching in front of altars and so on 05:28:48 like "crouching"? 05:32:06 -!- cait has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:35:23 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:46:32 if we're inventing lore, we can invent words too. we'll just make "frog" a verb 06:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:23:41 -!- zespri has quit [] 06:27:00 -!- zespri has joined ##crawl-dev 06:29:58 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:09 -!- rhovland has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:43:25 -!- Tiltorax has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:43:29 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:53:17 -!- Taraiph has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:52 -!- Tiltorax_ is now known as Tiltorax 07:11:34 -!- anubisbafoobis has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:15:11 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:16:10 -!- Ge0ff has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:17:12 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 07:22:09 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:24:54 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:31:07 -!- n1k has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:57:08 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:13 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:10:05 slippery slope!! 08:10:11 don't say I didn't warn you 08:10:22 the hidden adjective technical debt 08:10:23 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:29:54 -!- Nattefrost has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:33:11 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 08:41:21 -!- Yermak has joined ##crawl-dev 08:49:00 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 08:49:10 !messages 08:49:10 No messages for SteelNeuron. 08:54:52 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:16:06 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:22:57 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 09:36:54 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:41:34 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/413 * 0.20-a0-546-gea1e955: Fix weapon spawn bug when wielding non-weapons 10(in the future, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ea1e9555c8b4 09:42:32 -!- Bcadren has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:45:57 -!- removeelyvilon has quit [Client Quit] 09:46:31 -!- removeelyvilon has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:46 Are frogs available for play somewhere? 10:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:22:11 -!- techmind has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:24:18 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:29:26 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:42 -!- removeelyvilon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:40:11 -!- GraemeLion has joined ##crawl-dev 10:45:28 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:44 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 10:54:20 -!- techmind has quit [Client Quit] 10:58:07 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:59:48 chukamok (L20 DsIE) ERROR in 'rltiles/tiledef-player.cc' at line 2805: ASSERT failed: idx of 0 out of range TILE_MAIN_MAX (1273) .. TILEP_PLAYER_MAX (4066) (Lair:1) 11:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:15 chukamok (L20 DsIE) ERROR in 'rltiles/tiledef-player.cc' at line 2805: ASSERT failed: idx of 0 out of range TILE_MAIN_MAX (1273) .. TILEP_PLAYER_MAX (4066) (Lair:1) 11:15:09 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:17:21 -!- Tarara is now known as Taraiph 11:33:41 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:37:13 <|amethyst> !crashlog 11:37:14 16215. chukamok, XL20 DsIE, T:55441 (milestone): http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/chukamok/crash-chukamok-20161224-155957.txt 11:38:44 -!- Shard1697_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:46:48 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:47:50 -!- puissantveil has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:56:55 @??two-headed ogre 11:56:55 two-headed ogre (04O) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 44-63 | AC/EV: 3/6 | Dam: 20, 15 | 10items, 10doors, two-weapon | Res: 06magic(40) | XP: 897 | Sz: Large | Int: human. 11:56:58 hill giant (04C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 11 | HP: 50-71 | AC/EV: 3/4 | Dam: 30 | 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(40), 12drown | XP: 654 | Sz: Giant | Int: human. 11:56:58 %??hill giant 12:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:12 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-351-gc9b4002 (34) 12:09:54 -!- AngelaSmythe has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:17:48 -!- Suga_H has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:18:15 -!- GraemeLion has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:19:26 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:31:21 MarvinPA: You have a bunch of commits planned to rework/merge/remove rods? 12:31:32 Or did I imagine that 12:31:32 yeah 12:31:41 i'm just still held up on the details of turning lightning rod into a misc item, pretty much 12:31:44 do you have a simple outline of the changes? 12:32:34 not a big deal if that's a hassle to make/get, was just wondering if there was a summary. 12:34:09 http://sprunge.us/AeUZ 12:34:53 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: can we remove ?recharge and let wands stack? 12:35:02 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: or maybe even without removing ?recharge 12:35:11 oh i guess the details of how to handle confusion i'm also not sure about, i sort of liked the suggestion of just having a chance of success/failure (and applying that to other evocables too) 12:35:17 but also that's hard to communicate 12:36:41 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:37:16 iirc that was a complicated thing to do without recharging removal? i don't really have opinions on it generally 12:38:19 recharging removal on its own i'd be vaguely in favour of but wasn't going to include it with this stuff 12:39:54 MarvinPA: I assume these rodwands will become somewhat common compared to before, I guess this makes inventory pressure a bit more of a thing 12:40:08 oh I see |amethyst is also talking about that 12:40:27 but for the time being, I suppose it's really not too much a problem, since the number of wands won't change 12:40:41 and currently you have the pressure of all wands + all rods + all evokers 12:40:52 so this won't really change that too much 12:42:08 yeah, maybe in the long term we could indeed just have wand stacking (but not other evocable stacking where appropriate) and remove recharge 12:42:38 i have them as pretty rare currently anyway 12:43:02 well these look like nice changes 12:43:15 is BEAM_DISINTEGRATION the same as used by wands of disint? 12:43:36 yeah, i didn't touch other digging/disint stuff since maybe lasty was planning on merging those 12:43:41 right, ok 12:43:42 but just removing the digging seemed fine regardless 12:43:49 the digging from disint* 12:44:21 yeah, I'm sure something will happen there; people love the exploding effect but the wand itself has less reason to exist with that removal 12:44:30 perhaps add exploding to scattershot... 12:45:43 well it's still pretty decent in that it does a bunch of ac-ignoring damage, also improved by the spellpower boost (and it has its own built-in boost like slow/agony etc) 12:46:36 i think it's a distinct enough effect still without the digging, better than lightning for example 12:46:45 yeah, I certainly use it a ton for damage that checks only MR, which most early monsters don't have 12:53:38 -!- purge has joined ##crawl-dev 12:59:56 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:15:53 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:15:54 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:16:10 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:18:08 -!- Mindiell has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:18:56 -!- Mindiell has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:43 -!- concrocotta has quit [Quit: Ciao] 13:20:14 -!- zxc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:20:27 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:23:04 -!- Shard1697_ is now known as Shard1697 13:25:50 -!- Mindiell has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:26:53 -!- Mindiell has joined ##crawl-dev 13:28:47 -!- Telnaior has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:33:19 Antenna-vision shows non-hostiles as hostiles 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10861 by damerell 13:34:47 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:41:21 -!- Ge0ff has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:41:29 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 13:44:10 -!- Mindiell has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:48:45 -!- Mindiell has joined ##crawl-dev 13:49:18 -!- Enthusiasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:54:33 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:58:01 -!- Laakeri has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:59:48 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 14:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:06 -!- darkschneider has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:17:24 -!- darkschneider has joined ##crawl-dev 14:23:33 -!- hurdos has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:47:28 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 14:49:00 -!- LordSloth has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:42 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 15:19:21 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:22:09 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 15:29:23 %git frogs 15:29:23 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.20-a0-353-g63bd08e: Replace Hop exhaustion with -Hop status 10(17 hours ago, 7 files, 21+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/63bd08ec0508 15:29:46 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 15:39:10 -!- WangHW has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:43:36 -!- HellTiger has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:49:06 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:50:11 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 15:52:20 -!- whut has quit [Client Quit] 15:57:14 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:43 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:02:43 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 16:06:03 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 16:09:34 -!- introsp3ctive has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:10:42 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:17:05 Query related to the removal of wands of heal wounds: 16:17:39 Anything to be done about randarts similar to Kryia's mail coat (DeviceHeal*2) or the that one vine robe whatever it was 16:25:31 well we might want to remane the property 16:25:34 and the mutation 16:26:06 but yeah those artps seem less relevant 16:26:48 you'll have more heal wounds pots now on average, and you weren't guaranteed to get the wand before, so I guess nothing has to change 16:26:50 i reworded the mutation desc already, i guess the name shows up in % so that should change too 16:27:10 i am not a big fan of those two unrands either way, personally 16:28:04 i guess the coat could lose the DD restriction now but also i just don't think it's a good effect 16:28:22 and the robe just duplicating vine stalker features seems weird to me 16:29:45 yes, I was never a big fan of kyria's 16:30:19 robe with crazy regen is neat on its own, but I'm not particularly attached either 16:30:27 Maybe Lasty will have some ideas for those two 16:32:28 hm? 16:32:48 Oh, ah 16:32:52 IMO neither needs to change 16:33:31 Not to say that they're necessarily hauling their weight -- maybe they aren't -- but this change isn't particularly relevant for either 16:33:31 but change is the essence of design, Lasty 16:33:38 the tao... 16:34:06 I absolutely love robe of vines. I've never had a chance to actually work with Kryia's by weird chance, but I think it explores interesting design space. 16:34:09 I'll just only play 0.19, when Kyria's was good 16:34:26 *Kryia's 16:35:04 MarvinPA: the only VS feature the robe replicates is the no device heal, and I'm fine w/ removing that. Someone, I can't recall who, felt that it was necessary for balance IIRC 16:35:20 the robe is kinda cool 16:35:40 I think Kryia is sort of limited 16:35:45 gammafunk: 'tis 16:35:46 huh? the two things it does are regen and no device heal, and both of those very much duplicate VS features 16:36:15 it's odd to have an artp attached to the use of (What's now) one potion 16:36:15 i would like it better without the no device heal and some other downside instead, i guess 16:36:19 VS doesn't heal nearly as much as the robe does, and lots of things do regeneration. Heck, players even passively regenerate. 16:36:20 oh I guess there are cure pots 16:36:25 which become closer to hw 16:36:28 I forgot about that 16:36:30 and abmrosia 16:36:40 gammafunk: kryia's also doubles !ambrosia and !curing 16:36:46 2slo 16:36:48 yeah 16:36:51 way too slow 16:39:22 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:39:40 can I point out the elephant in the room that robe of vines is really weak 16:40:50 it has the same problem as vampire's tooth where it seems like it was designed for D:5 but unrands dont generate on D:5 very often 16:41:10 minmay: I disagree. It's weaker than some things, but overall I find it to be fairly strong. 16:41:20 and not just on d:5, where it's essentially immortality 16:42:37 it's decent if you are already a vine stalker sure 16:43:04 but im fairly certain the intended design isnt "a little worse than a robe of the archmagi for VS, and horrible for everyone else" 16:44:02 I guess I'd put it on as a robe-wearer of another species if I ran out of hw and curing but that doesn't happen often 16:44:19 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 16:44:38 minmay: you generally feel that Regen is a weak property, right? 16:44:39 oh and of course you swap to it to rest to reduce piety decay but I assume that isnt considered a good thing 16:45:21 Lasty: compared to archmagi or a double digit amount of AC + the ability to use heal wounds? yes 16:45:25 -!- n1k has joined ##crawl-dev 16:45:57 minmay: I meant as in amulet of regen, for example 16:46:06 I think I've heard you say that it's weak 16:46:18 correct me if i'm mistaken 16:46:40 Lasty: it's very weak compared to guardian spirit, rage, +SH, faith, or harm 16:46:48 Lasty: it's better than gourmand or mpregen imo 16:47:16 minmay: I thought you felt harm was a net negative. Maybe I'm confusing that with you thinking that it's bad design. 16:47:25 Lasty: you confused that with me thinking that it's bad design 16:47:52 Lasty: "weak" is an entirely relative term so if you tell me you heard me say that it's weak, but not what I said it was weak compared to, that doesn't really help me :P 16:48:02 fair 16:48:26 there are people who think that "harm is worse than no amulet; I had the apparently-mistaken impression that you were in that group 16:48:29 isn't the robe a lot of regen tho 16:48:32 ??robe of vines 16:48:32 robe of vines[1/2]: The +2 robe of vines {DeviceHeal--- Regen++++++}. Gives +2.4 hp/turn regen but removes device healing. 16:48:35 gammafunk: yes 16:48:40 I think regen++++++ is worse than 10 AC and for most of the characters that are actually interested in wearing robes, worse than archmagi as well 16:49:01 this is before the DeviceHeal--- comes into play 16:49:26 i dunno, I think 6 regen is probably worth 12ac or so 16:49:29 I thought the item was interesting before it had DeviceHeal---, now the situations where I would wear it are just vanishingly rare 16:49:57 -!- yeeve has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:50:06 IMO Regen+ is slightly better than 2 AC against a single foe, and Regen+ is stronger still if you have the ability to reliably delay a fight 16:50:21 yeah I was going for about regen+ ~ 2ac 16:50:31 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:50:35 minmay: I'd be fine w/ removing DeviceHeal---. I can't recall who was pushing for it. 16:50:37 so you get hit once every 5 turns? 16:50:55 thats the only way that regen is as good as 2 ac 16:51:09 minmay: 1 AC should save me 0.5 hp per attack. Regen+ saves me 0.4 hp per turn whether or not I'm being attacked, but only if I'm already injured. 16:51:12 (simplifying a bit here of course) 16:51:44 (where turn = 10 aut of course) 16:52:49 yeah, and I can't think of many characters that have enough EV that they're being attacked so infrequently that +0.4 hp/turn is better than 2 AC 16:53:12 As opposed to AC, regen turns every action you take that delays a fight into a turn where you're reducing damage (that you've taken). 16:53:18 like, do you rush regeneration spell early game on sk and ne? 16:53:48 the conventional wisdom is to not even learn regeneration very early 16:53:48 minmay: rarely, but it requires you to commit mp and turns and xp to getting its effect. 16:54:06 well even by this regen++ ~ 4 or 5 ac calculation, regen is good but not something you need to rush 16:54:06 but I usually do cast regen when I have the starting book 16:54:59 I think the net increase in ev from shroud is a lot higher 16:55:06 but I forget how that works out; it just feels pretty strong 16:55:10 ??shroud of golubria 16:55:10 shroud of golubria[1/2]: L2 Charms/Tloc spell. Found in Book of Battle and Spatial Translocations. While in effect, the shroud protects you from some melee attacks, but the shroud is fragile and might fall apart. More damaging melee attacks have a higher chance of breaking the shroud. Basically equivalent to +10 hp on average. 16:55:14 shroud doesnt work like increasing ev 16:55:17 it works like increasing hp 16:55:51 gammafunk: casting shroud is statistically the same as gaining 10 hp 16:56:01 yeah, ok 16:56:10 if it worked like increasing ev it would be a lot better against vault wardens and a lot worse against adders 16:57:43 again, I think robe of vines was a good (but balanced) item without deviceheal---, even if I typically would have worn archmagi over it; I'm not denying that regen++++++ is significantly beneficial 16:58:51 what I do deny is that +2.4 hp/turn is anywhere near good enough to be worth getting rid of the opportunity to get +24 hp/turn 16:59:15 +24 hp/turn being +10 plate mail? 16:59:16 +24 hp/turn being potions of heal wounds 16:59:19 ah 16:59:36 -!- Enthusiasm has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 17:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:04 he's a heal wounds chugger 17:00:10 drinks them as he finds them 17:00:11 i hate the idea of expressing AC as hp/turn because of how many other factors there are in that 17:00:15 minmay: I think it's fairly significant that you get the +2.4 hp/turn from the robe without taking a turn to get it; it means you can be taking other defensive options (walking, read tele, quaff agility, etc) while also recovering significant health. 17:00:43 in my experience you can often effectively drink heal wounds by, say, casting summon butterflies and walking a few steps 17:01:05 obviously there are situations where the HW would be better 17:01:10 but in my experience they're rare 17:01:10 if you can spend the 100 aut it takes to get the equivalent of heal wounds then i dont think you needed the healing in the first place 17:01:29 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:01:42 -!- lxl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:02:02 but I guess if people don't agree it's weak then there was no point in me bringing this up in the first place, so go back to its other design problems like it being the item of become vine stalker 17:02:14 thats more important anyway 17:02:16 For me, the robe feels powerful. It's possible that it just plays well with the way I like to play, or that I play better when I know I can't use !HW, but it definitely feels stronger than high AC in a lot of cases to me. 17:02:38 But in any case, I'm fine w/ cutting the deviceheal--- 17:02:57 fr: a prop listed as +++Name--- 17:03:17 +++Regret--- 17:06:39 unrandart amulet of reflection with +++SH--- 17:06:59 increases your SH but all your turns count double, reducing your score 17:07:06 I wish I could query for games with a given unrand. It'd be interesting to see how many people have used Kryia's or Robe of Vines 17:07:17 gives an 'a'bility called "reverse polarity", changing it to ---SH+++, which reduces your SH and increases your score 17:07:18 -!- WangHW_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:07:31 minmay: we need to get this idea on the tavern asap 17:08:25 <|amethyst> +++ATH0 17:08:36 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:11:21 tome4 actually has an unrand like this, its an hourglass that either increases your defenses and reduces your speed, or increases your damage and reduces your defenses and movement speed, and you flip the hourglass to change between them 17:11:34 however, both versions are bad and the item is completely useless 17:12:35 -!- zespri has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:16:39 remember the Knife of Accuracy 17:16:54 I think it was called "knife" anyhow 17:17:00 ??knife of accuracy 17:17:00 knife of accuracy[1/4]: +27,-1 thin dagger. Note that weapon to-hit enchantments don't affect stabbing. No longer generated as of 0.13. 17:17:04 oh yeah 17:20:39 -!- Tiltorax has joined ##crawl-dev 17:27:01 you could get a +27, +27 knife of accuracy if you saved with knife of accuracy and then waited until to-hit enchantment was removed 17:27:28 but a +27 unbranded dagger isnt really any more exciting than +18 wyrmbane 17:36:18 -!- sneakyness has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:37:21 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:37:51 wow 17:38:01 I just learned this 17:38:26 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 17:38:45 any DES veterans in here know what the 'K' stands for in all those those K statements (KFEAT, KMONS, etc) 17:38:48 it's a quizz! 17:39:08 *quiz 17:40:01 I was around when we only had MONS and ITEM, but I cannot tell you what the snark was thinking :) 17:40:51 dpeg: I just learned what it stands for after reading the source, was wondering if anyone else knew 17:46:05 you can tell me in private, I am really curious now :) 17:47:44 it's ok, it stands for "key" or "keyed" 17:48:48 not very exciting, and I'm still not precisely sure why it's called that! 17:52:17 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 17:57:37 !tell pleasingfungus The large abomination closely misses you. You riposte. A red film seems to cover your vision as you go berserk! You feel yourself moving aster! You feel mighty! You slash the large abomination! Your weapon exudes an aura of protection! You headbutt the large abomination! 17:57:38 Lasty: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 18:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:23 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.20-a0-351-gc9b4002 (34) 18:04:03 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:43 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:12 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 18:06:43 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 18:06:46 Much belated and slightly less sober idea regarding kyrias: charged healing effect, like a lamp of healing 18:06:47 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:07:59 -!- ProzacElf_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:09:00 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 18:14:46 "I wish the devs would just be honest and admit their sick fetish for content removal. They're getting so pretentious hiding behind "streamlining" and over simplification of the game. DCSS: Babies First RL Edition." 18:15:58 CanOfWorms: ze 18:16:02 oops 18:16:06 CanOfWorms: where's that from? 18:16:15 the /r/roguelikes dcss trunk update thread 18:16:29 https://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/5k2oid/dcss_trunk_updates_23_december_2016/ 18:16:32 bottom-most comment 18:17:01 us and our sick fetishes 18:17:01 -!- darkschneider has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:17:19 -!- darkschneider has joined ##crawl-dev 18:18:05 "In 06', this game was fun to pick up. 09', still fun. It seemed like there was always new real estate to explore with fun archetypes. Fast forward, its been shortening, chopping, simplifying. It feels like there is an elite group that is catering only to the elite, with less imaginative features and fewer genuine creative strokes. I still follow the game because I've loved it for a decade, but I haven't really pla 18:18:11 Lasty: you might be the last man playing this game, we just suck so hard!! 18:18:16 I never thought I'd be part of the oligarchy! 18:18:51 I actually replied to the comment Lasty just linked. 18:19:11 -!- Tiltorax has quit [] 18:20:29 I got downvoted, oh my god 18:20:46 the people have spoken! 18:21:03 you are NOT america's next top model 18:21:38 :( 18:21:39 hahaha 18:21:48 I wanna be America's next role model! 18:22:06 CanOfWorms: I'm okay with being runner up for America's top model. 18:22:51 -!- Torax_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:26:47 looks like Glaciate warns you about targeting guardian demons, but doesn't actually hurt them 18:32:25 merry chrimbo nerds 18:37:05 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 18:38:41 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:38:54 Hey, let's send alexjurkiewicz to pacify the hordes! 18:39:46 bad idea 18:40:17 reddit really has a hate on for content removal though 18:40:31 fix it! 18:40:32 we must be at the fuck devs end of the cycle 18:42:30 -!- adelrune has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:42:43 alexjurkiewicz: what's the other end of this cycle? 18:43:57 see /r/rimworld 18:44:34 alexjurkiewicz: tell me about rimworld -- did he draw hate too? 18:46:26 I also like "Maybe they will finally realize after they lose 90% of their player base." 18:46:35 ^ this will happen 18:47:23 our game will be so good, 90% of players will shut themselves out from civilization 18:47:31 never to be heard from again... 18:48:09 this JiyvaJelly is a mixture between funny and sad :) 18:48:39 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:48:57 "Uh oh, here comes the Removal Dictator himself. Remember guys! No Thought Crimes allowed in front of His Majesty." 18:48:58 just frustratingly negative. and if you ban them, reddit will rise up moaning about 'censorship' 18:49:28 well, you could be more proactive about banning people who are expressly there to troll, we do this on tavern 18:49:40 but I'm not sure people are eagre for more places to moderate 18:49:44 Tavern is enough... 18:49:44 (i'm not a mod) 18:49:50 nah, no action should be taken imo 18:49:54 'you' was metaphorical here 18:49:56 if they ruin another discussion place, so be it 18:50:31 yeah I don't think discussion is ruined by any means, these people only show up in the discussions of changes 18:50:43 gammafunk: the world is not enough1 18:51:04 Lasty: sic cekugov (spelling) on them 18:51:56 Cerekov! 18:52:07 right, that's it 18:52:18 gammafunk: I can summon Cerekov here, if you want 18:52:32 no... 18:52:40 it's going to be like 60-80% gammafunk 18:52:43 not advisable... 18:52:43 haha 18:52:50 well, it would be over time :p 18:53:05 you missed the heydays anyhow 18:53:05 but I think we can all agree that's too much gammafunk 18:53:17 when it wwould have been 60-80% grunt+gammafunk 18:53:27 now THAT is truly frightening 18:53:59 Lasty: although, fr: cerekov_lang 18:54:06 gammafunk: hahaha 18:54:07 not sure what the input source would be 18:54:12 gammafunk: what . . . yeah 18:54:24 tavern? reddit? both? 18:54:26 The crawl manual? 18:54:34 ...like 40% dpeg.... 18:55:46 gammafunk: I'm currently running a DsCj^Veh that turned monstrous and then decided to rush Glaciate. 18:55:50 Because, you know, good ideas. 18:55:57 it's been pretty un 18:55:58 fun too 18:56:05 hrm, does monstrous affect your casting ability much anyhow? 18:56:14 gammafunk: it means your defenses are garbage 18:56:23 you loves gloves and boots? 18:56:25 er 18:56:26 lose 18:56:30 and hat 18:56:39 oh wow, you lose all every time? 18:56:42 and you're left w/ robe and body 18:56:42 yeah 18:56:48 I've never actually won a monstrous 18:56:50 in my case a robe of archmage 18:57:04 gammafunk: oh, really? 18:57:10 monstrous means you lose all those -cast aux armour!!! 18:57:11 I'm not sure I ahve either, but I think that's just a coincidence 18:57:12 tbh that's bad but if you're a ~caster~ it's not all that bad 18:57:27 I guess I would probably try to just use a light dragon scale 18:57:40 so yeah, I decided to go full Tavern-style glass cannon 18:57:41 but I ascend casters in a robe with no more than like 12 ac a lot 18:57:53 does make it harder to get resists tho 18:57:54 haha, dang 18:58:10 !lg . mage !dr won 18:58:11 23. gammafunk the Slayer (L27 BaNe of Ashenzari), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2016-10-09 05:59:51, with 1397009 points after 113149 turns and 10:30:07. 18:58:15 !lg . mage !dr won x=ac 18:58:16 23. [ac=20] gammafunk the Slayer (L27 BaNe of Ashenzari), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2016-10-09 05:59:51, with 1397009 points after 113149 turns and 10:30:07. 18:58:25 oh that was kind of a weird melee thing I think 18:58:29 !lg . mage !dr won x=ac -2 18:58:29 22/23. [ac=6] gammafunk the Demonologist (L24 OpSu of Sif Muna), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2016-08-24 01:42:21, with 1244803 points after 106624 turns and 10:11:38. 18:58:33 there we go 18:58:41 that's a good gammafunk build right there! 18:58:44 well, Op! 18:58:45 Su^Sif 18:58:55 it's not like you could have gone plate there :p 18:59:02 well my point is just that 18:59:07 you don't need a lot of AC to win a mage 18:59:16 yeah 18:59:28 esp if you do it amulet of harm style -- kill everything from edge of LOS :p 18:59:29 now for resists I had rings, of course, but you need a pip of each and maybe rF++ to feel safer in zot 18:59:32 oh no... 18:59:34 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 18:59:41 amulet of harm, no wonder... 18:59:52 haha, I decided to pass on amulet of harm here 19:00:01 but only because I had a really good artefact amulet of MPRegen first 19:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:09 is that affect pretty strong? 19:00:16 with Veh it would be nice 19:00:24 minmay sez no, chris o sez yes 19:00:34 but if I'm trying to glass cannon, it adds a level of sustain 19:00:38 well, for your char is it feeling strong I mean 19:00:39 and in this case, also two levels of rF :p 19:00:45 yeah, it's helping 19:00:48 yeah, handy 19:01:05 I wore Gspirit rf++ amulet on my ogas last win 19:01:11 had anti-magic so I only had like 14 mp 19:01:14 haha 19:01:15 still nice 19:01:23 Close to Amulet of Vitality with rF++ 19:01:55 true! although when you get that wand-mp mutation on zot:1 from an orb of fire... 19:02:14 haha 19:02:21 good thing we removed all the good zot wands anyway 19:02:24 I went back to pick up magic pots after that so I could still use my ~good~ wands 19:02:37 yes, my last game with tele/haste wands 19:03:11 well not really since I've started up DESu speedruns in 0.19 again, but for casual games 19:03:20 will be neat to see how these other wand changes play out 19:03:49 -!- yeeve has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:04:10 yeah 19:07:02 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:15:36 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:22:27 -!- Zekka has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:47 -!- Torax_ has quit [Quit: Bye!] 19:30:31 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:31:11 -!- ProzacElf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:38:41 -!- Majora has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:46:05 -!- puissantveil has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:52:02 -!- yeeve_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:29 -!- zxc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:55:43 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:30 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 20:02:35 claiming that robe of vines is weak does not really align with what i've seen in play 20:02:35 Pleasingfungus: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 20:02:44 since when i've seen it used, it seemed very, very strong 20:03:28 re: conversation from several hours ago 20:09:05 -!- wheals_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:11:25 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:13:00 Pleasingfungus: hey, I never saw you posting on reddit. 20:13:36 I post occasionally. Not regularly. 20:16:06 -!- ProzacElf_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:17:23 ??blog 20:17:23 blog[1/1]: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress for interesting articles on play-testing and general development Stuffs! 20:26:46 -!- dondy has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:28:04 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 20:37:08 -!- adelrune has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:37:12 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 20:38:13 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 50.1.0/20161208153507]] 20:39:45 -!- wheals_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:41:09 the only time i got robe of vines it was on a naga which is obviously unsuited to it 20:41:29 it was still incredibly good 20:44:24 -!- wheals_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:47:11 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:37 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:03:00 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:09:15 -!- ProzacElf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:18:37 ??potion of curing 21:18:37 potion of curing[1/1]: Common potion that restores 5-11 health and cures sickness, poison, confusion, and rotting. Compare with {potion of heal wounds}. 21:19:17 ??heal wounds 21:19:17 heal wounds[1/1]: Heals 10+(3d28/3) hp. Will not cure Rot status (but will reverse it), sickness, poisoning, or confusion. Compare with {potion of curing}. 21:30:25 -!- WangHW has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:31:13 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:35:41 ??ads 21:35:41 acid dragon scales[1/1]: 6 AC, 5 ER, rCorr. Sometimes dropped by an {acid dragon} when it dies. 21:41:19 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:51:53 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:52:49 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 21:53:29 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:55:30 -!- MarvinPA__ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:55:42 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:57:54 -!- MarvinPA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:44 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 22:06:35 -!- wheals_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:12:12 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:16:49 -!- MarvinPA__ is now known as MarvinPA 22:23:58 -!- Enthusiasm has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 22:39:33 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 22:57:06 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:57:45 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 23:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:14 -!- PsyMar has quit [Quit: witty quit message goes here] 23:05:13 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:06:16 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:10:04 -!- WangHW has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:15:07 -!- kuzimoto has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:18:14 -!- kuzimoto_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:22:43 -!- WangHW has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:25:36 -!- Barfbag has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:31:05 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 23:31:52 -!- asdu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:36:32 merry christmas, crawlians 23:37:02 and happy hannukah to you! 23:41:33 are you actually celebrating hannaukah 23:42:09 hrm, is it spelled 'Hanukkah'? 23:43:15 there's multiple spellings because of the "difficulty" of translating from Hebrew 23:43:19 Arabic languages have a similar problem 23:43:24 I've seen Chanukah a lot 23:45:36 btw I just saw dynast clear that one lair dragon end, the swampy one 23:46:01 had mixed feelings about all the acid dragons instead of former mottled ones 23:46:15 tbh acid is probably better theme for 'sort of swampy', but it's such a drastic change! 23:46:33 cleary make them vault defines as "swamp acid dragons" 23:46:36 haha 23:46:57 I forget fi it's swamps or bogs that are acidic 23:47:03 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:47:19 bogs make good preservation areas, so maybe not those? 23:47:33 at least I seem to recall bodies being found preserved in bogs 23:47:35 -!- OrphineM has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:47:41 swamps are acidic 23:47:58 yeah bog preservation is because of... oxygen depriv or something like that, so bodies that fall in are essentially sealed 23:48:25 hrm, guess it's funny that there are no acidic monsters in the swamp branch 23:48:34 since it'd seem like a good fit 23:48:36 there used to be oozes in the undead ending 23:48:41 <|amethyst> that's the difference between fens and bogs 23:48:50 sure, for the end vaults a lot of things go 23:49:03 one of the strengths of swamp is that its ends have a lot of fun themes 23:49:06 at least I like that 23:49:17 but I meant as normally generated monsters 23:49:39 I'm not sure what it'd add, tbh. The main effect of acid (aside from damage) is the corrosion 23:49:46 Would that interact interestingly with the Swamp mosnter set? 23:49:55 I guess it makes tmons scarier 23:50:04 wisp swarms as well 23:50:07 tmons are incredibly rare 23:50:23 corrosion the effect is a generic one in terms of applicability, debuf for ac/attack that's always relevant 23:50:27 which is weird since they're more suited to Swamp than Zot, imo, though that might be our canary re: "power creep" 23:50:53 well they're kind of crazy to have more common in swamp 23:51:14 they've deffo got endgame hp, although I suppose their attack isn't *too* much 23:51:20 @??tentacled monstrosity 23:51:20 tentacled monstrosity (03X) | Spd: 10 | HD: 23 | HP: 96-149 | AC/EV: 5/5 | Dam: 22, 17, 13, 903(constrict) | 05demonic, 10doors, amphibious, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(160), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy | XP: 2966 | Sz: Giant | Int: human. 23:51:26 just a lot of them 23:51:43 but yeah too much hp for a more common swamp monster I think 23:51:51 @??shambling mangrove 23:51:51 shambling mangrove (04f) | Spd: 8 | HD: 13 | HP: 74-106 | AC/EV: 13/3 | Dam: 41 | 03plant, amphibious, unbreathing | Res: 06magic(100), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 676 | Sz: Big | Int: human. 23:51:58 @??alligator 23:51:58 alligator (12t) | Spd: 10 (act: 80%; swim: 60%) | HD: 12 | HP: 60-84 | AC/EV: 5/9 | Dam: 30, 15 | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40), 12drown | XP: 896 | Sp: sprint [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 23:52:07 @??swamp dragon 23:52:07 swamp dragon (07D) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 54-80 | AC/EV: 7/7 | Dam: 20, 11, 1107(trample) | fly | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 697 | Sp: poisonous cloud (3d7) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath] | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 23:52:13 shamblers are kind of a problem already, but they are nerfed a lot by being slow 23:52:30 I think it's appropriate that many players have to hack repeatedly at a walking tree to bring it down 23:52:41 but even between shamblers and tmons iit's a big diff 23:52:49 yeah, ~30? on average 23:52:58 that's an extra two or so successful strikes 23:53:19 on the other hand Swamp's popularly considered the easiest branch 23:53:23 of the four 23:53:52 well, I wouldn't have a problem with bumping them up a ~bit~, personally, not sure how others feel 23:53:59 what is their average placement even 23:54:20 but I also kind of feel that mega hp bags should be a "one or maybe two tops" thing 23:54:26 <|amethyst> 1, 4, 25, RISE 23:54:31 esp since we do have good hp bags in swamp 23:54:41 |amethyst: in terms of on average? 23:54:50 <|amethyst> about 1/17 as common as thorn hunters 23:55:02 what's that monster spawn data spreadsheet 23:55:03 yeah and you fight like, what, 3-4 on average of those? 23:55:04 <|amethyst> probably less than one 23:55:04 ??spreadsheet 23:55:05 I don't have a page labeled spreadsheet in my learndb. 23:55:10 well objstat will tell you for sure 23:55:12 ??objstat[2 23:55:12 objstat[2/2]: Spreadsheets for all releases: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7VXhHzhWWb7S282VWhLVWRXbG8&usp=sharing ; See the README for details: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D5mFqVi8ghz_nzvVmDUc3unx8VanVBWfgvZ8xCHaiJo/edit?usp=sharing 23:55:32 I've been meaning to get these spreadsheets unified under a google group, though I guess we have some devs who don't use google 23:55:41 maybe I should just place permanent links on the wiki or something 23:55:47 anyhow it's currently very very small; I do think it's not thrilling to fight things with just gobs of hp 23:55:55 consider that a lot of people are using 1h weapons as well 23:56:19 <|amethyst> gammafunk: 0.23 average, 0-4 range, 0.47 SD 23:56:29 ah, actually a bit higher than I'd thought 23:56:48 but yeah still rare; that seems common enough to me for such a mega hp thing 23:56:56 other kinds of threats could be good though 23:57:10 I mean, even constricting things if that's cool, even if that's a Snake thing 23:57:50 one of the thins that I tend to dislike about snake is that it seems that the average monster has both high hp/defenses and high dam, or just there are so many of these 23:58:30 merfolk can have high dam but are squishier, spiders are pretty squishy (with a big vulnerability) to counter their numbers 23:58:39 snake is definitely sloggy, though it's pretty in line with what nagas are 23:58:41 snake feels like such a slog 23:59:11 yeah, so if we try to up swamps difficulty, maybe it'd be better to not go the "forever to kill" route 23:59:22 I think the idea is that snake has beefy stuff that's counterbalanced by them being slow 23:59:25 but then so many naga have Haste 23:59:28 and anacondas are fast 23:59:45 right, it's not about the difficulty, it's more the feel when killing monsters (the time it takes to kill) that I like less 23:59:55 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-351-gc9b4002 (34)