00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:10 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:07:26 -!- DrKe has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:09:53 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 00:27:41 -!- DrKe has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:28:25 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 00:29:37 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:31:35 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-345-gbfb25ec (34) 00:42:56 -!- SchwaAkari has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:47:32 Brannock: hi 00:49:36 -!- kuzimoto has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:51:09 -!- Cacophony has quit [Quit: oh no am scare] 00:55:10 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:24 yo is gammafunk around, press 123 01:08:41 -!- nefhilion_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:11:16 -!- DrKe has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:11:55 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 01:12:04 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 01:18:34 -!- cosmonaut has joined ##crawl-dev 01:20:19 yo yo gammafunk 123 01:20:21 yo 01:20:23 =p 01:20:25 321 01:20:34 gammafunk : hello, anything happen to beem? I'm playing cwz, he isn't coming to see my game like before now :( 01:20:41 oh 01:20:43 let me check 01:20:53 thx! 01:21:42 -!- DrKe has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:21:57 heh 01:22:14 does beem just come spectate all the time if you subscribe? 01:22:26 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 01:22:27 cosmonaut: I've restarted; due to (I think) latency between the server and cwz (or perhaps due to how cwz is configured) websockets can drop in a way beem doesn't deal with; I'll have to try to fix that if I can 01:22:38 yes, it always spectates 01:23:02 thank you always gf! 01:23:06 np 01:23:17 lol 01:23:25 i only have beem around when i have a lot of other spectators anyway 01:23:28 I mean that's that point, right 01:23:37 because i'm always on irc when i'm playing anyway 01:23:43 for non-cwz servers this is fine, but for some reason on cwz websockets die in a way I'm not catching exception-wise 01:23:43 "They say they don't design the game around speedrunners, how about another small player population they shouldn't build around: streakers." 01:23:46 so i don't need to use the beem functionality 01:24:06 uh, how is the game built around streakers? 01:24:07 lol 01:24:19 https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/5jmdm0/wands_of_heal_woundsteleportationhasting_removed/ reasoning within 01:24:22 i mean, sure, i like to play in the nude =p 01:24:39 the argument is early game changes are tilted towards addressing streakers 01:24:43 which I suppose I can see the basis for 01:24:50 ah 01:24:52 but I'm a little surprised that simplifying sandblast has triggered 01:24:53 lol 01:25:06 i can also see the argument that this sucks for mummies 01:25:11 even with the new spc apt 01:25:20 tbh you are never guaranteed the wand for mu 01:25:23 I expected that with 30 stones, players would have nearly always hit level 2 and thus been able to access stone arrow 01:25:27 hahaha 01:25:29 otoh you will *probably* get one of hasting or heal wounds 01:25:44 even if they were unlucky enough to never find stones in dungeon 01:25:45 i didn't even realize the wielding change 01:25:52 would affect sandblast 01:26:02 i mean, it's obvious 01:26:09 but i've been dragging out a desu 01:26:13 it's not just wielding; I also simplified sandblast into one zap 01:26:17 as well as gave EE +10 stones 01:26:17 over all these changes 01:26:34 it just eats a stone each cast? 01:26:36 or...? 01:26:41 yes, it works like Sticks 2 Snakes now 01:26:46 yeah, that's legit 01:27:00 once in a while you get fucked and don't find stones 01:27:08 but it's the same with s2s 01:27:17 and no one bitches about how that works 01:27:37 I'm bothered by these criticisms, though. Maybe I shouldn't be. But I've always had a very sympathetic side towards new players and I'm concerned that these changes *really* do make it difficult for new players 01:27:37 anymore, anyway 01:27:59 trust me, this game was a lot less friendly to new players 5 years ago 01:28:03 The game doesn't survive and sustain without a steady underflow of newbies 01:28:03 or whenever i started 01:28:15 new players? 01:28:26 you mean for the sandblast changes? 01:28:27 hahaha 01:28:29 yeah 01:28:32 good point gammafunk 01:28:43 "More reasons I'm staying out of trunk. Certain devs are trying to develop "crazy hardcore" mode. I mean, I get it, you've spent a bunch of time learning this game and you want it to keep challenging you so you take away all the things you've been leaning on." 01:28:55 i had been playing for months before i even knew that wielding stones made sandblast better 01:29:18 what happens in crazy hardcore mode? 01:29:26 lol 01:29:48 crazy hardcore mode?? 01:29:49 well, 01:29:51 you win..... 01:29:52 or you die. 01:29:52 minmay comes in and trolls you 01:29:54 all the time 01:30:30 and he also puts a ton of his vaults in 01:30:39 lol 01:30:47 I think minmay's given up on vaults since several months ago 01:30:58 some sort of dustup between minmay and another dev 01:31:00 yeah, and he admits that some of his old ones are bad 01:31:17 fortunately we have like 80000 new vaults from cheibrodos currently sitting on mantis 01:31:20 but that doesn't mean i can't make fun of them 01:31:21 lol 01:31:26 someone should go through and prune these. 01:32:03 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 01:32:27 i think that almost all of the new changes are positive tbh 01:32:40 i've lodged my complaints about high elves and ogres 01:32:49 !apt earth 01:32:50 Earth: DD: 3!, Gr: 2, Fo: 2, Dr[grey]: 2, Gh: 1, DE: 1, HE: N/A, Vp: 0, Hu: 0, HO: 0, Op: 0, Ko: 0, Ha: 0, Dr: 0, Na: 0, VS: 0, Ds: -1, Ce: -1, Og: -1, Fe: -1, Sp: -1, Tr: -1, Dg: -1, Mu: -2, Mi: -2, Dr[black]: -2, Mf: -2, Te: -3* 01:32:55 but other than that, i think the game is headed in a good direction 01:33:14 huh 01:33:24 i always forget that ghouls are actually good at earth 01:33:35 !vault dpeg_guardian_barracks 01:33:35 Can't find dpeg_guardian_barracks. 01:33:42 brannock: it was removed 01:33:46 Brannock: for what it's worth, cooler heads are starting to emerge 01:33:46 Pleasingfungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 01:33:48 already! 01:33:52 well 01:33:54 it crashed the game 01:33:56 spectacularly 01:33:56 it caused... interesting bugs 01:34:02 took multiple devs to unravel it 01:34:09 cooler heads 01:34:11 how did I miss these commits 01:34:13 like Ram-Man 01:34:16 pf welcome back to tavern posting 01:34:18 ah I see, tournament period 01:34:18 of he-man fame 01:34:24 twelwe: i'm gonna regret it... 01:34:37 Brannock: i missed the commit that added it initially! 01:34:37 Pleasingfungus, cooler heads among who? 01:34:44 make sure you like and subscribe my tloc god 01:34:46 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 01:34:47 pf: care to comment on beckoning/ood feature? 01:34:48 sa players. someone actually tried out a few New EEs and said "actually this is fine basically" 01:34:58 I guess I should resub to SA 01:34:59 haha 01:35:08 highly disgruntled with that website's userbase though 01:35:09 CanOfWorms: there was discussion of it and i specifically implemented some iood/beckoning change 01:35:12 so i assume it's working as intended 01:35:16 is SA actually worth paying attention to? 01:35:17 neat 01:35:29 ProzacElf: it's a big place with a ton of dumb people and a few very good posters. 01:35:32 i liked it about 15 years ago back when lowtax actually wrote most of the articles 01:35:42 there's a frontpage????? 01:35:47 and their wtf d&d feature was also cool 01:35:52 lol 01:35:52 oh yeah that was good 01:35:58 they moved to their own site and were never heard from again 01:36:01 ProzacElf, the format is more conductive towards real discussion than basically any other competing (userbase-wise) site currently 01:36:02 hahaha 01:36:11 Brannock: imo you shouldn't have called for executions. 01:36:13 that's my Hot Take 01:36:18 wow 01:36:20 perhaps 01:36:22 :P 01:36:26 we all make mistakes 01:36:32 really? i think reddit gives you the same amount of value/bullshit ratio 01:36:34 did brannock join the dev team and get mad at SA? 01:36:36 I'm just still in shock from what this country did 01:36:38 or signal/noise 01:36:41 but politics 01:36:42 if you prefer that 01:36:49 ProzacElf: from reading both, i have significantly less respect for reddit 01:36:55 but i might just be more used to filtering out SA-brand nonsense :) 01:36:55 huh 01:36:57 easier with avs! 01:36:59 to be fair 01:37:00 you can just scroll to the Good Avs 01:37:00 ProzacElf, reddit is good at upvoting relevant stuff, but still exceptionally awful for true conversation 01:37:13 yeah, you're probably right 01:37:24 the good avs aare the animated ones 01:37:32 i basically only actually talk on reddit on a hearthstone subforum 01:37:38 that is pretty heavily moderated 01:37:54 heavy moderation is the key, absolutely 01:37:54 so yeah, regular reddit is probably shit 01:37:57 haha 01:37:58 yeah 01:37:58 competitivehs? it's not THAT moderated 01:38:00 only for posts 01:38:02 you can just ignore anything that doesn't have a sweet funky eagle next to ir 01:38:14 i thought you had, like, a bird with a question mark 01:38:20 i won a new one 01:38:25 huh! 01:38:28 Brannock: competitivehs is a lot more moderated than r/hearthstone 01:38:43 yeah, but not the comments 01:38:47 btw, lorewalker cho is MVP in grimy goons paladins. 01:38:47 and r/thehearth is moderated and also not many people use it =D 01:38:48 fyi. 01:38:51 question mark bird was excellent too though 01:38:52 lol 01:39:02 what are avs? 01:39:06 Brannock: http://pastebin.com/cwyMaLrx 01:39:17 avatars? 01:39:20 the picture thingies 01:39:38 we just don't know, gammafunk. 01:39:44 haha 01:39:46 ? 01:39:50 Brannock: herald volazj is the shit in a silence priest deck =p 01:39:56 wish I knew how to ascii a good bird 01:40:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh0Y2hVe_bw 01:40:08 >^> 01:40:14 ? 01:40:15 >^< 01:40:16 >(^) 01:40:43 heh 01:41:03 wasn't that ontoclasms SA picture 01:41:10 yes 01:41:27 look around you is the greatest thing 01:41:27 it's the referennce 01:41:31 the origin 01:41:35 the zero 01:41:38 Look around you. 01:41:41 Look... around you. 01:41:42 does some one have to pay for me to have a picture 01:41:43 just 01:41:45 is that how it works 01:41:48 look around you 01:41:49 Pleasingfungus, that's a good post even if I disagree with a few assumptions there. I think the benefit of being able to wield shit and still cast zsandblast outweighs potential positive cases from optimizing stone supplements, especially since 30 stones is sufficient to get essentially every single race to level 2-3 for stone arrow barring exceptionally awful luck 01:41:51 yes, gammafunk 01:41:56 good insight, however 01:41:57 you can even... pay for it yourself! 01:42:00 gammafunk: you can pay $5, or someone can pay $10, or someone can pay $5 and give you a certificate 01:42:21 perhaps if you troll the thread hard enough, someone will be kind enough to give you a nice avatar 01:42:28 Brannock: it seems like a basically reasonable post, unlike the hysteria that reigned among Certain Posters 01:42:38 (many posters kept their heads! i shouldn't be unfair) 01:42:46 if only we could get all crawl discussion to be calm and reasonable. 01:42:49 name names! do it! 01:42:51 it is, after all, a game 01:42:56 by reposting that, i did not mean to endorse it 01:43:01 reposts are NOT endorsement 01:43:07 needs to be renamed stoneblast imo 01:43:09 I feel very vaguely guilty here, considering I used to post angrily about a certain dev in the past 01:43:16 ooh, who? who? 01:43:18 my perspective has changed, of course. 01:43:18 oh really? 01:43:20 sine it can never make sand any more 01:43:22 C.O. 01:43:27 he's 01:43:29 not a dev 01:43:32 -!- neirpyc has quit [Changing host] 01:43:32 -!- neirpyc has quit [Changing host] 01:43:37 yeah 01:43:40 he's banned from ##crawl-dev. 01:43:43 he's not even ..yes 01:43:58 however he has made many fine patches, all the same 01:44:03 he also namesearches the logs 01:44:06 so good call to use the abbrev 01:44:39 haven't seen a chriso patch in a long time though 01:44:41 haha what 01:44:45 not sure he's still following the project 01:45:12 there was a recent commit last july? 01:45:28 yeah, they used to be a more regular occurance 01:45:33 wheals would merge them a lot 01:45:43 he was responsible for some big stuff 01:45:43 again, some nice patches 01:46:00 e.g. accuracy/damage plus merger 01:46:05 I did like a lot of his patches 01:46:05 on weapons and rings and randarts 01:46:08 they were sensible 01:46:12 Just some of the controversial ones.. 01:46:16 yeah, i think the stuff that the devs actually merged was good :) 01:47:06 dang, like half of his stuff has been implemented 01:47:18 ??chris patches[8 01:47:19 chris patches[8/19]: remove all good wands and wand acquirement 01:47:22 ??chris patches[12 01:47:22 chris patches[12/19]: remove !restab https://github.com/ChrisOelmueller/crawl-ref/compare/master...restab 01:47:34 ??chris patches[18 01:47:34 chris patches[18/19]: remove dragon hides 01:47:39 ??ccrawl 01:47:39 ! 01:47:39 I don't have a page labeled ccrawl in my learndb. Did you mean: bcrawl, crawl, fcrawl, hcrawl, kcrawl, lcrawl, mcrawl, ncrawl, pcrawl, qcrawl, tcrawl, wcrawl, xcrawl, ycrawl. 01:47:45 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:47:52 -!- twelwe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:47:52 good options 01:47:57 in the one of those that was his, a lot had been done already 01:48:06 ??ncrawl 01:48:06 ncrawl[1/8]: features: poison storm, choko storm, firestorm storm, mephitic storm, iood storm, dispel storm, oklob storm, bug storm, inaccuracy storm, chaos storm, mutagenic storm, drain storm, blink storm, apport storm, hydra storm, thunder storm, porkalator storm, wall storm, xom storm, door storm, enslavement storm, deconstruction storm 01:48:14 storm storm when? 01:48:22 8 entries? really? 01:48:23 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:48:28 sadly those links have all bitrotted 01:48:35 the links in chrispatches 01:48:43 i was curious about some... 01:50:00 my primary concern about EE is that... lemme work back from the other elementalist classes. Flame Tongue is a short-range, unreliable blast that has the best power-scaling of any of the E spells. Freeze auto-hits but requires adjacency. Shock multi-hits but has complicated behavior. Sandblast requires ammunition. I *think* this is a good spread, mostly? 01:50:29 speaking of Flame Tongue, I frequently find myself, as FE, forgoing Throw Flame because Flame Tongue is that good 01:50:33 you forgot sting!!! 01:50:37 ??flametongue[2 01:50:38 flametongue ~ flame tongue[2/2]: i like flame tongue because it basically integrates the worst features of mdart, sandblast, and shock with none of the advantages 01:50:41 VM isn't an elementalist............... 01:50:58 it's an elementalist at heart 01:51:27 Sandblast hits the hardest of the four level 1 ele spells, but requires ammunition. Is that a fair and interesting tradeofff? 01:51:31 Imo it is 01:51:38 -1f 01:51:38 it's the beginning... of... 01:51:45 R A N G E D R E F O R M 01:51:53 which feature of mdart does flame tongue have 01:51:58 none 01:52:04 AC checking? 01:52:04 is it "uses 1mp and is a spell"? 01:52:05 ProzacElf, we summon you to the Tribunal 01:52:09 hahaha 01:52:38 "does shitty damage unless you're a deep elf" 01:52:44 !apt fire 01:52:45 Fire: Dr[red]: 2!, Dr[mottled]: 1, Dr[pale]: 1, DE: 1, Te: 1, HO: 1, VS: 0, Dr: 0, HE: N/A, Gr: 0, Na: 0, Fo: 0, Ha: 0, Ko: 0, Op: 0, Hu: 0, Fe: -1, Ds: -1, DD: -1, Og: -1, Dg: -1, Ce: -1, Mu: -2, Gh: -2, Dr[white]: -2, Sp: -2, Vp: -2, Tr: -3*, Mi: -3*, Mf: -3* 01:52:51 I don't think that's.... 01:52:56 i mean, it's a good spell after you have some skill 01:53:16 would you ever run out of ammo as a pure EE 01:53:24 i also made that comment like 3 years ago and it has just hung out in the learndb 01:53:28 you could if you 1. got very unlucky or 2. scummed D:1 01:53:37 or 3. cast sandblast only and never meleed 01:53:49 yeah no. 3 is the big one 01:54:10 30 stones *should* be enough to get you to Stone Arrow level 01:54:10 if you were determined to sandblast and only ever sandblast 01:54:10 like, not "would you run out when only using sandblast the amount a sensible/optimal player would" but "would the average player find it hard to regulate their sandblast use and die as a result of incorrectly managing their stone resources" 01:54:50 i usually opt to use sandblast without wielding stones 01:55:01 yeah, stone sandblast is for special tough enemies 01:55:04 at least until i find more stones 01:55:22 sandblast & rock hits very hard btw. so new EE is going to shred enemies a lot faster/consistently than before, where they'd primarily try to grind down via small_sandblast 01:55:24 but i suspect the change is fine 01:55:50 ??sandblast 01:55:50 sandblast[1/1]: Wield stones to do more damage and increase range from 2 to 3 with this spell. Sandblast with stones maxes out at 2d20 damage, although damage reduction from enemy AC is applied thrice instead of once. Og and Tr can use large rocks, with damage maxing out at 3d20. To-hit: 13+power/10 with ammo, 8+power/5 otherwise. In 0.20, only cast with stones. 01:56:09 hahaha 01:56:09 maintaining learndb.... 01:56:20 i forgot that you could use large rocks 01:56:23 2d20 is like Really good for a level 1 though 01:56:27 ProzacElf, you can't anymore! 01:56:38 could in the past tense 01:57:03 Actually I wonder if we'll see some players carrying around stones for the entire game to sandblast with, given 2d20 for 1 MP is wildly efficient 01:57:16 Even if it's triply reduced by AC 01:57:31 you could see that before, sandblast has always been an absurdly strong L1 01:57:34 i think the best i've ever done with an EE was 4 runes and not winning 01:57:42 !lg . --EE won 01:57:43 1. Brannock the Conqueror (L27 MiEE of Cheibriados), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2015-02-13 17:01:31, with 21469713 points after 70643 turns and 4:59:07. 01:57:44 but i carried stones the whold game 01:57:48 whole even 01:57:55 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:58:11 I have KoEE up at a potential next char 01:58:14 so I'll get to see 01:58:19 !hs . --ee x=rune 01:58:19 Unknown field: rune 01:58:20 I hope it gets picked 01:58:22 dammit 01:58:23 !lm gammafunk --EE 01:58:25 I really want to see some EE action 01:58:27 246. [2016-04-20 00:05:28] gammafunk the Earth Mage (L26 DgEE) found the Orb of Zot! (Zot:5) 01:58:33 !hs . --ee 01:58:33 279. ProzacElf the Earth Mage (L24 FoEE of Sif Muna), hit from afar by a merfolk javelineer (poisoned javelin) on Depths:3 on 2015-09-26 03:29:38, with 411411 points after 75830 turns and 5:13:48. 01:58:48 eeeeee 01:58:49 hahaha, frederick 01:58:55 and his servitor 01:59:07 did like 80+ damage on me 01:59:19 nice 01:59:19 and then the javelineer killed me 01:59:19 !lg CanOfWorms ee 01:59:19 4. wormsofcant the Acrobat (L27 SpEE of Qazlal), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2016-12-11 02:22:10, with 1385441 points after 121021 turns and 6:23:54. 01:59:28 you just won a weirdo EE 01:59:34 how is it weird 01:59:39 look at it 01:59:43 look at it right there 01:59:43 spriggans are perfectly cromulent EE 01:59:47 you see it? 01:59:50 hahaha 02:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:06 SPRIGGAN EARTH ELEMENTALIST OF QAZLAL 02:00:07 weird, I played 3 other EEs? 02:00:08 i did a spee^ru and sacrificed resist 02:00:09 what were the other two 02:00:14 !lg . ee 1 02:00:15 1/4. wormsofcant the Digger (L3 GhEE), hit from afar by a gnoll (stone) on D:1 on 2015-11-11 06:59:39, with 25 points after 1095 turns and 0:02:41. 02:00:17 !lg . ee 2 02:00:18 2/4. wormsofcant the Digger (L1 GhEE), quit the game on D:1 (dpeg_arrival_more_subterranean_lakeside_camping) on 2015-11-11 06:59:58, with 0 points after 0 turns and 0:00:11. 02:00:19 !lg CanOfWorms ee won s=char 02:00:20 2 games for CanOfWorms (ee won): SpEE, VpEE 02:00:25 because i found flaming death on like d:4 02:00:31 and so i was like YOLO 02:00:33 must be a tournament thing 02:00:36 I actually tried ghee as well 02:00:43 ghee of chei and ghee of not chei 02:00:45 the pain of 2 mp... 02:00:45 both horrible 02:00:58 ghee without chei had attrociously bad int 02:01:01 ghee of chei sounds legit tbh 02:01:05 ghee of chei had chei 02:01:09 you mean gh of chei 02:01:09 without chei sounds bad though 02:01:21 gh just has really bad non-str stats 02:01:26 well yes, gh of chei in general is good 02:01:29 I hadn't won chei at the time, tbf 02:01:48 chei is basically the god for gh and tm 02:01:53 imo 02:02:18 I have to admit though, spee of qaz was a very fun game 02:02:23 only had to use disaster area twice 02:02:24 in lair 02:02:28 speeq 02:02:35 if you watch the tv it's pretty obviously why I had to do it 02:02:42 *obvious 02:02:49 we have two god slots left. what happens after we fill them?! 02:02:57 we remove tso 02:02:57 okawaru reforms?!?! 02:03:11 -!- concrocotta has quit [Quit: Ciao] 02:03:11 maybe replace with a sun themed god or something 02:03:18 tso is excellent. 02:03:31 imo oka vehu are problem gods atm 02:03:40 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:03:45 which one is imo? 02:03:52 ieoh monk 02:03:54 i think that's the council god? 02:03:57 agh, too slow... 02:04:09 if only haste wand wasn't removed 02:04:17 imagine 02:04:27 posting at 1.5x the speed! 02:05:17 I want to see more gods with strong conducts, a la chei/zin/qazlal/ash/gozag 02:05:24 conducts make the god, imho 02:05:29 -!- Taraiph has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:05:31 they...do? 02:05:38 package matters too 02:05:42 dith is pretty nice 02:05:43 most of the gods I like don't have conducts 02:05:56 that'd include ru and dith, yeah, CanOfWorms 02:06:03 praise the sun 02:06:07 -!- Yermak has joined ##crawl-dev 02:06:08 dith's conduct isn't very strong... 02:06:08 dith doesn't have a strong conduct 02:06:11 I mean, not in the sense of strong conducts 02:06:33 imo, designing a god around conduct and designing a god around powers are both valid approaches 02:06:37 yes 02:06:40 as the designer of a god without much of a conduct :) 02:06:44 because all gods have one very good conduct 02:06:48 does dith still just murder you with penance if you happen to shoot a lightning bolt that hits a tree? 02:06:48 which is "you have to worship me" 02:06:55