00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:03:11 -!- Rast has joined ##crawl-dev 00:04:10 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:05:04 -!- WangHW has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:10:40 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 00:15:57 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:16:08 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 00:17:01 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:22:22 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.20-a0-315-g8346a86 (34) 00:27:00 -!- Nilockin has quit [Client Quit] 00:31:59 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:47 -!- mibert has joined ##crawl-dev 00:40:18 -!- mibert has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:46:41 -!- concrocotta has quit [Quit: Ciao] 00:49:42 -!- simmarine_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:30 -!- bgiannan has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5] 01:01:41 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:11:26 -!- kuzimoto has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:11:46 -!- jefus- has joined ##crawl-dev 01:13:28 -!- nefhilion_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:13:30 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 01:14:08 -!- kuzimoto_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:14:30 -!- jeefus has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:14:33 -!- gressup has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:21:24 -!- bgiannan has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5] 01:24:12 -!- Blazinghbnd has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:30:26 mitch45678 (L8 DDEE) ERROR: range check error (125 / 70) (D:5) 01:31:39 -!- kuzimoto has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:33:22 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:35:50 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 01:43:08 -!- bel1 has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:46:25 -!- Zxpr2jk has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:47:25 -!- Zeor has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:49:00 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:49:32 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:50:37 -!- Zeor1 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:52:48 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 01:53:13 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 01:55:46 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 01:58:23 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 01:58:42 -!- bgiannan has quit [Client Quit] 01:59:03 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 01:59:23 -!- bgiannan has quit [Client Quit] 01:59:43 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 02:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:03 -!- bgiannan has quit [Client Quit] 02:00:27 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 02:00:57 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 02:02:53 -!- bgiannan has quit [Client Quit] 02:03:26 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 02:09:46 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 02:09:57 -!- WangHW has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:15:40 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:18:17 -!- aditya has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:28:21 03|amethyst02 07* 0.20-a0-316-g5d5805e: Class-ify {,f}lang_t, and dataify set_lang() 10(27 minutes ago, 4 files, 103+ 118-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5d5805ee9a01 02:28:21 03|amethyst02 07* 0.20-a0-317-gc038824: Accept "lang = C" as a synonym for EN. 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c03882474108 02:29:08 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 02:30:53 -!- tksquared_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:48:42 <|amethyst> err, "language", not "lang" 02:52:26 -!- mibert has joined ##crawl-dev 03:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:10:09 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-317-gc038824 (34) 03:12:49 -!- mibert has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:16:29 -!- jefus- has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:16:56 -!- jefus- has joined ##crawl-dev 03:25:19 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.20-a0-317-gc038824 (34) 03:28:07 -!- chan20 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:28:20 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:29:52 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 03:30:14 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:30:30 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 03:30:39 -!- Danei[notDanei] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:35:47 -!- mong has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:46:47 -!- rhovland has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:46:51 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:47:45 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 03:48:38 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 03:50:51 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:03:41 -!- laj1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:35 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 04:06:29 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 04:22:32 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 04:23:47 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 04:30:29 -!- minmay has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:30:55 -!- Brannock has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:31:22 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 04:31:24 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 04:31:45 -!- minqmay has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:33:02 -!- orbisvicis has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:34:01 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:34:09 -!- aditya has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:39:07 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 04:40:07 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 04:44:13 -!- Zxpr1jk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55:39 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 04:56:51 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 04:59:52 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:03:53 -!- chan20 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:05:57 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:12:20 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 05:13:29 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 05:17:27 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:30:20 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 05:30:25 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:31:06 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 05:33:22 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:48:23 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 05:49:17 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 05:53:09 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00:17 -!- SchwaAkari has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:05:59 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 06:06:54 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 06:11:36 -!- concrocotta has quit [Quit: Ciao] 06:14:43 -!- kdrnic has joined ##crawl-dev 06:23:43 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 06:24:32 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 06:26:45 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 06:27:23 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 06:27:56 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 06:29:23 -!- Xiberia has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 06:29:51 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 06:41:02 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 06:42:13 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 06:42:22 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 06:46:51 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:46:54 -!- kdrnic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:53:23 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 06:59:05 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 06:59:48 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 07:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:05:45 -!- twelwe has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:16:50 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 07:17:59 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 07:19:48 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:20:52 -!- cait has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:21:24 -!- ebering has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:23:09 -!- ebering has joined ##crawl-dev 07:24:54 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 07:30:28 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:31:47 -!- kuzimoto_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:34:36 -!- kuzimoto has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:35:00 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 07:35:38 -!- ebering has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:37:24 -!- ebering has joined ##crawl-dev 07:40:53 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 07:47:12 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 07:49:09 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:51:13 -!- chan20 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:52:00 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:53:49 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 07:56:14 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 07:56:27 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 07:57:46 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 07:58:14 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:58:59 -!- Kite has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:59:13 -!- chewymouse has joined ##crawl-dev 07:59:32 -!- kuzimoto has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:11:49 -!- chewymouse has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:14:39 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 08:15:21 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 08:22:37 -!- doll has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:24:36 -!- kuzimoto_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:27:14 -!- johnny0 has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 08:27:31 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:27:45 -!- johnny0 has quit [Client Quit] 08:27:52 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:32:26 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 08:33:33 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 08:42:56 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:46:44 -!- WangHW has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:50:42 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 08:51:43 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08:31 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 09:08:44 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 09:13:12 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:14:41 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:17:00 -!- Juniper_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:18:47 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 09:29:23 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 09:34:26 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:35:58 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 09:36:36 -!- jeefus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:36:54 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 09:39:03 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 09:40:29 -!- jefus- has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:43:35 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:55 -!- Ratatosk has quit [Quit: Ratatosk] 09:50:14 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:39 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:53:56 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:55:08 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:55:53 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:59:33 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:20 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:40 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 10:00:54 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 10:05:52 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:12:31 -!- TuxQmoob has quit [Changing host] 10:15:37 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:19:32 -!- cait has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:19:56 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 10:21:52 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 10:25:52 -!- zxc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26:04 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:27:01 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:34:23 -!- von_Faulenz has quit [Client Quit] 10:35:02 -!- TuxQmoob has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:35:11 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Changing host] 10:35:20 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 10:36:35 -!- TuxQmoob has quit [Changing host] 10:36:35 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:37:47 -!- irssi is now known as Guest78188 10:37:50 -!- TuxQmoob has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:38:03 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Changing host] 10:39:35 -!- TuxQmoob has quit [Changing host] 10:39:35 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:41:27 poke 10:42:13 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:42:43 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 10:43:55 -!- nefhilion has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:43:57 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 10:48:01 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:53:19 -!- doll has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:56:17 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:08 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 11:01:15 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:37 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 11:08:36 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:16:36 -!- cait has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:17:27 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 11:18:27 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 11:24:26 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 11:26:57 -!- TuxQmoob has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:29:53 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:31:18 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:31:49 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:33:59 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:24 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 11:36:02 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 11:37:49 -!- DevlanMud has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:39:01 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:40:43 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:37 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:47:23 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 11:48:39 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 11:52:32 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:53:03 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 11:55:27 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:01 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:11 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:56 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 12:02:18 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:01 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:12:52 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:17 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:15:36 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:41 !messages 12:15:41 No messages for SteelNeuron. 12:16:34 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 12:17:59 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:18:07 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:53 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 12:24:13 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:27:14 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.20-a0-317-gc038824 (34) 12:33:12 -!- yeeve has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:20 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:42 -!- LexAckson__ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:41:09 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:45:34 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:02 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:33 -!- frd has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:48:09 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 12:50:32 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 12:51:01 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:54:47 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 12:56:20 -!- stickyfingers has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:59:27 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:59:37 -!- vev_ is now known as vev 13:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:09 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:14 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 13:15:37 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 13:17:46 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 13:18:03 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 13:20:03 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:20:46 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 13:22:21 -!- Yermak has joined ##crawl-dev 13:26:13 -!- Taraiph has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:33:33 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:35:15 -!- sneakyness has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 13:36:36 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:44:41 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 13:44:56 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 13:45:39 -!- MarkKhief has quit [Client Quit] 13:46:12 -!- bonghitz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:48:03 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/413 * 0.20-a0-451-gb9cc3c4: Refactor weapon acension code 10(in the future, 3 files, 34+ 20-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b9cc3c40efad 13:49:41 -!- cait has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:49:41 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:51:49 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 13:56:26 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:58:20 03PabloMansanet02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/413 * 0.20-a0-452-gf2ab144: Tile tweaks 10(in the future, 2 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f2ab1443a344 13:59:03 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:36 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:04:03 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:22:33 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:23:23 -!- chan20 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:00:11 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:37 -!- cybersaint2k has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:03:50 re council god stuff in backlog, from what i've seen it's gotten substantially more complex after it was already brought up how overcomplicated it is 15:03:50 MarvinPA: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 15:04:14 i definitely don't think it's ready for trunk currently 15:06:12 -!- laj1 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:06:43 yeah I didn't think 'ready for trunk was at all accurate', although I seem to recall it becoming less complex? maybe I didn't follow the changes well (there were a lot) 15:07:00 -!- Yermak has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:07:55 -!- adibis has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.6] 15:08:42 and that was supposed to be 'read for trunk' was at all accurate 15:08:53 you know what, forget it 15:09:38 haha 15:09:51 i understood it, yes :P 15:10:15 anyway iirc the one thing that was removed to make it simpler got added back again, and then also a whole ton of extra unrands with even more special rules were added 15:11:32 we do have to consider that if a new god isn't added with each version, crawl is dead 15:11:48 it's either this or new pakellas! 15:14:19 i'm sure nemelex will get enough changes to count as a new god again 15:15:38 MarvinPA: Please don't take this the wrong way, but the god is at a stage of testing at which theorycrafting just isn't enough 15:15:38 Have you had a chance to play the branch? 15:16:04 theorycrafting? 15:16:10 what does that refer to 15:16:15 Well 15:16:26 I communicate with testers daily, and the fedback I always get is that it's fairly straightforward 15:16:34 even from people who expressed they felt it was overcomplicated on paper 15:17:15 refering to someone's assesment of the god when they've taken a look at the details as 'theorycrafting' isn't going to further discussion 15:17:32 Sorry, I didn't mean the term in a bad way 15:17:40 I believe many people here have a lot of experience with working on gods in DCSS, many have years of experience 15:18:27 I'll try to be more constructive then, although I don't have much time atm, so I'd love to continue the discussion afterwards 15:18:33 what I meant to say 15:19:03 Is that recent iterations are all based on impressions obtained from testers... And I would say complexity has decreased a lot 15:19:08 Not all the ways are easy to quantify 15:19:13 yes, certain design issues are very much possible to pick up on just via "theorycrafting" or whatever you want to call it 15:19:27 interface wise, the god is much simpler now, the abilities are more clearly communicated 15:19:44 A superfluous ability has been cut (the finale) 15:19:48 well again speaking at a high level here, testing isn't the issue, it's the overall complexity of the god's mechanics/design and are they a good fit for DCSS 15:20:05 I would argue they're nowhere near the complexity of, say, Fedhas 15:20:13 also i did play it briefly earlier today and when i joined the god received approximately 6 messages at once which wasn't a good start 15:20:49 -!- scummos| has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:55 I appreciate the "approximately" but that's not possible even as a monk :) 15:22:49 again, I don't want to appear as defensive 15:22:54 But keep in mind 15:23:01 just double-checked and it was 5 lines of messages, so pretty close 15:23:13 That this god has had substantial amounts of discussion at all steps 15:23:38 I'm sorry, but "a discussion about the discussion" won't work as a way to stop criticism 15:23:58 nor will "lots of players have played this"; this is about crawl-dev's assessment of the god's design 15:24:14 I can find many players would would swear up and down that mechanix X that was removed was in fact a great design 15:24:19 right, this discussion about the design mostly hasn't had devs involved 15:24:47 Not because lack of opportunities I'd argue 15:25:03 well, has the opportunity ended? 15:25:17 i mean brannock and myself brought up the overcomplexity in the past, and it has only gotten more complex since then 15:25:27 That's the statement I take issue with 15:25:31 "it has gotten more complex since then" 15:25:32 if you're saying that you can't compromise on the design that's not going to bode well for this god getting into mainline DCSS 15:25:38 I absolutely can 15:25:38 it has gotten more complex since then 15:25:55 since when 15:25:55 then 15:26:02 then being what? :) the unrands were on the original discussion 15:26:15 in fact, since the theorycrafting days, two mechanics have been cut 15:26:22 weapons attacking on their own, and Steel Dragonfly Technique 15:26:53 <|amethyst> maybe someone should have told dpeg 15:27:06 you know dpeg, unstoppable 15:27:11 the actual specific implementation has gotten much more complicated since the point where we brought up that the current implementation was, in fact, too complicated 15:28:04 I have to go now 15:28:08 <|amethyst> is the complaint that the god's design is too complicated, or that the code is too complicated? 15:28:09 I'll think about ways to reduce the complexity 15:28:22 yeah, there's no time limit on this kind of thing 15:28:28 0.20 is still very early etc 15:28:28 There may be parts that can be compromised without losing the main ideas 15:28:28 |amethyst: mine is very much the former, i don't know about the latter (although others have brought that up too) 15:28:34 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:46 %git 15:28:46 07|amethyst02 * 0.20-a0-317-gc038824: Accept "lang = C" as a synonym for EN. 10(13 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c03882474108 15:28:49 Although I think the divine weapons have value, and don't have a big impact on the game overall 15:29:05 approx 16% finished 15:29:11 So I'll look at other things to cut 15:29:19 if they don't have a big impact on the game overall, that sounds like an excellent place to start cutting 15:29:25 -!- LexAckson__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:29:32 I think the divine weapons are neat and have cool tiles. 15:29:35 I mean that they don't spawn outside these set of controlled circumstances 15:29:43 so they won't be a factor in most games :) 15:29:46 Just an accent 15:29:58 crawl doesn't suppot accents 15:30:01 you just get 'a' 15:30:03 and 'b' etc 15:30:07 *support 15:30:16 :'D 15:30:17 i mean those specifically would be my number one example of an extra thing added because i guess it sounds cool, while just resulting in a bunch more complexity for very little gain 15:30:37 Argh, wish I could continue this discussion 15:30:38 "they won't be a factor in most games" is not a strong argument in favour of a thing that's big and complicated 15:30:42 I will think about it 15:30:44 But meanwhile 15:31:06 it's alright, people will be around later as well 15:31:09 I'll ask just one thing :) give the branch one run for me 15:31:14 It's just a drop on the bucket 15:31:21 and I've put a lot of effort and hours into this 15:31:33 so I would appreciate it a lot 15:31:36 when we discuss the fine points 15:31:46 I need to go back and look at the flattened commit so I can just read it all through once 15:32:05 which I will do! on my list of things to do 15:32:26 right now I need to figure out a cheap way to print time in ms 15:32:36 does the crawl codebase use millisecond time anywhere? 15:32:51 <|amethyst> gammafunk: for idle calculations 15:32:56 bye! 15:32:58 ah, cool, which source file? 15:32:58 std::chrono maybe? 15:33:32 oh 15:33:36 indeed it seems so 15:33:42 misc.cc 15:33:42 <|amethyst> some stuff in main.cc, some in misc.cc, some in player.cc 15:33:47 <|amethyst> mostly misc 15:33:47 yeah I think I found it, thanks 15:33:59 anyway in other news, maybe i will push the wand/DD stuff since apparently there is excited clamouring for it 15:34:16 yes please 15:34:18 man I am so unbelievably HYPE 15:34:39 not sure my GrIE of Hep will be affected 15:35:03 better finish all your mummy games now before they're ruined forever 15:35:08 !lg . mu 15:35:09 141. gammafunk the Destroyer (L15 MuVM of Hepliaklqana), entered wizard mode on Orc:1 on 2016-11-18 01:28:57, with 72302 points after 34892 turns and 3:43:02. 15:35:17 good tech 15:35:18 rip in piece 15:36:01 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 15:37:20 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:37:22 the big whole thing including rod removal/conversion too is sort of nearly ready too but i'm still not sure about the implementation details for lightning rod -> misc thingy 15:38:03 so if anyone has ideas on that they'd be welcome! but either way the wand/DD changes are good to go as a standalone thing 15:38:24 You did potion/scroll compensation, right? 15:38:29 yeah 15:38:46 As for lightning rod I don't see a problem with porting behavior fully and putting it on a shortish? cooldown 15:38:55 what did you have in midn? 15:38:58 *mind 15:39:34 <|amethyst> does disc of storms still need to exist alongside a new lightning evoker? 15:39:37 i didn't really have anything in particular planned yet, currently i've replaced disc of storms with "lightning rod with infinite charges" 15:39:42 <|amethyst> ah 15:39:43 great minds :) 15:39:58 rods are cooler than discs. 15:40:18 but yeah, specifically was thinking about what the best way to limit it would be 15:40:50 tension, obviously :^) 15:40:55 will black drac breath be changed as well? 15:41:21 should it? 15:41:26 i wasn't planning on it 15:41:39 imo it's much better on them than on the disc 15:41:52 just thinking it'd be nice to be able to get rid of the effect altogether 15:42:41 why? the effect's cool 15:44:45 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 15:45:45 same reasons I'd assume it was taken off the disc - it's very complicated and no unspoiled player understands it, it's used to attack out of los, and the rain is abusable 15:46:08 I could be totally off base of course 15:46:20 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:46:30 -!- cait has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:47:02 the black drac version doesn't make rain, at least 15:49:06 -!- orbisvicis has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:52:20 -!- S has joined ##crawl-dev 15:52:29 -!- S is now known as Guest72864 15:56:22 what's wrong with rods that warrent their removal 15:57:41 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:59:02 there's a recent crd thread on it 15:59:32 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 15:59:41 which includes a link to the related irc discussion too 16:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:16 dont listen to marvinpa. there was no discussion. they removed rods because they hate you 16:01:31 -!- Guest72864 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:03:07 not especially you, crawl devs hate all players 16:04:54 ??c-r-d 16:04:54 c-r-d[1/2]: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/crawl-ref-discuss 16:19:42 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 16:20:38 -!- WangHW has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:25:39 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 16:29:51 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 16:42:03 -!- Kranix has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:42:18 -!- sneakyness has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 16:44:58 hrm, so now how do I print this chrono::milliseconds thing 16:45:49 -!- quinn has joined ##crawl-dev 16:45:49 -!- quinn has quit [Client Quit] 16:47:26 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:54:26 are you trying to print the current time in ms or time lapsed or something? 17:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:07 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 17:11:24 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 17:13:06 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 17:14:14 <|amethyst> gammafunk: dur.count() probably 17:18:20 yeah 17:19:41 -!- Hitsuchi has joined ##crawl-dev 17:21:59 -!- TrueCreed has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:26:12 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 17:27:54 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 17:31:43 -!- gressup_ is now known as gressup 17:31:58 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:44:08 -!- cosmonaut has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:58:35 -!- wheals_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:59:00 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:38 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 18:03:25 -!- xnavy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:06:48 -!- Menche has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09:18 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 18:11:57 -!- wheals_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:15:33 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.20-a0-317-gc038824 (34) 18:16:42 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 18:17:27 -!- wheals_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:17:42 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 18:19:37 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:25:31 -!- SteelNeuron has joined ##crawl-dev 18:26:08 o/ 18:26:11 Any devs still around? 18:26:51 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-318-g2007a24: Remove wands of heal wounds 10(10 days ago, 35 files, 21+ 131-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2007a24446e4 18:26:51 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-319-g6aafc7b: Replace DD recharging with a heal wounds ability 10(10 days ago, 14 files, 71+ 66-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6aafc7b55e4e 18:26:51 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-320-ga6f7038: Remove wands of hasting and teleportation 10(10 days ago, 41 files, 52+ 280-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a6f703897268 18:26:51 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-321-g718b551: Adjust some wand acquirement weights 10(10 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/718b5515ec29 18:26:51 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-322-g1b51c6c: Make heal wounds, hasting and teleportation consumables slightly more common 10(10 days ago, 1 file, 8+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1b51c6c3a914 18:30:01 MarvinPA, gammagunk, minmay, Brannock; I apologize by starting our previous discussion with the wrong foot :) I wasn't having the best of days. I'm willing to compromise, and as a first step I can remove the stealing mechanic and the varying degree wrath associated with it. I don't think it's essential for the design 18:30:06 gammafunk* 18:30:34 I'll also fully remove all mentions of a shield conduct (since there isn't one anymore) so the welcome message is less complicated 18:31:12 Hope that's a good start 18:31:22 Don't think of it as "making concessions" or compromising or anything 18:31:52 Of course, we're all just trying to converge to the best design 18:32:06 I think the others should try out the god for real (if they haven't yet) before judging, but I've commented several times before about the complexity of the god 18:32:36 You seemed like you were having fun working on the god and you might have gotten carried away a little :) 18:32:37 That's fine 18:32:42 That's why we have a group consensus process here 18:33:22 I think taking out stealing is probably necessary, and probably would have happened anyway (by someone else) if it had made it into trunk 18:33:31 it's a cool idea but very... unCrawly 18:33:43 Oh nice, the wand?DD changes went in. Woo~ 18:35:08 Absolutely :) 18:35:14 Yeah, stealing isn't too elegant 18:35:29 I'm still unsure I can cut the divine weapons themselves without causing an issue atm 18:35:35 because they've taken the role as a late game piety sink 18:35:36 I vote to keep the divine weapons for now 18:35:59 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:36:04 I haven't done a good job of conveying that in the tavern post, but without them you don't have a substantial way to spend piety now that SDT is gone 18:36:14 that piety sink in particular is another thing that looks like not a great design 18:36:16 It's okay that the divine weapons only show up rarely, we do that for many other things 18:36:18 like unrands and vaults 18:36:49 i don't think interrupting you with prompts to spend piety is a good idea 18:36:53 MarvinPA Yeah, it doesn't satisfy me completely either, specially interface wise 18:36:57 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:37:15 Any ideas? I thought of alternate solutions like piety spent per kill 18:38:29 damn, wonder if I can start my game before the rebuild and acquire wand/tele/hw 18:39:08 they stop working as soon as you transfer, though! 18:39:33 looking forward to next loading up my naga and having all its wands stop working and all its ridiculous stacked decks evaporate 18:39:58 I mean, I guess I could just increase the piety cost of Project Weapon even more and forget about the late game piety sink altogether 18:40:02 does it still crash in Lair? 18:40:44 yeah, i think the crash is eternal too 18:41:39 SteelNeuron: it's nbd re disagreement, it happens and it's just a Process (tm), I will find time to look closely at the god before the month is over 18:41:55 "some crazy cdo-specific vector size allocation thing" is the closest guess at what it actually is iirc, luckily all that's in lair is useless artefacts anyway 18:42:24 possibly a big stack of porridge somewhere too (rip) 18:43:26 gammafunk: any opinions on +1 vs +2 for mummy spellcasting? +2 would be closer to ogre-like (a difference of 4 between spellcasting and schools) 18:43:46 maybe too much of a buff though, got to be careful with precise mummy balancing..... 18:43:48 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:44:26 thanks gammafunk, I'll get to work on removing unnecessary stuff meanwhile 18:44:32 Good night everyone 18:44:47 can mummies cast borgs? 18:44:50 ??borg 18:44:50 borgnjor's revivification[1/2]: Level 8 Necromancy spell that completely restores HP (but not rotting) while permanently reducing maxhp between 2 and 10 percent depending on power. Note that the undead and those who take lichform cannot cast this spell, as they are beyond the realm of normal life and death. Those with 20 max HP or less are too frail to use this spell. 18:44:59 ah, right 18:45:23 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 18:46:17 -!- wheals_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:46:19 heh 18:46:29 !apt sc 18:46:29 Could not understand "sc" 18:46:31 i loved it when i brought up my last game that still had darts 18:46:32 ??mp 18:46:32 mp[1/3]: Cast spells with this. MP = min(23, XL) + skill + min(4, min(XL, skill) / 2), where skill = max(Spellcasting, Evo/2, Invo/2). Basically, MP = XL + skill, except that the last 4 XL's mp points effectively get distributed over the first 8 XL, but only if you have matching quantities of skill. 18:46:43 and i was throwing giant question marks at dudes in tiles 18:46:58 !apt spellcasting 18:46:58 Splcast: DE: 3!, Sp: 2, Dr[purple]: 1, Og: 1, HE: N/A, Fo: 0, Ko: 0, VS: 0, Te: -1, Gr: -1, Dr: -1, Mf: -1, Hu: -1, Na: -1, Vp: -1, Ds: -1, Mu: -1, Op: -1, Fe: -1, Dg: -2, Gh: -2, DD: -2, Ha: -3, Ce: -3, HO: -3, Mi: -4, Tr: -5* 18:47:02 -!- SteelNeuron has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:47:14 but anyway, does this mean that /hw and /tele are now gone too? 18:47:17 yes 18:47:21 whoa 18:47:23 !lm start mu mage x=avg(mmp) 18:47:24 No milestones for start (mu mage). 18:47:33 !lm begin mu mage x=avg(mmp) 18:47:33 No milestones for begin (mu mage). 18:47:37 !lm * begin mu mage x=avg(mmp) 18:47:59 can you link me the commit? 18:48:17 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commits/master 18:48:25 !lm * begin current trunk sp|og|mu s=crace mage x=avg(mmp) 18:48:58 59401 milestones for * (begin mu mage): avg(mmp)=2.55 18:49:25 lol 18:49:32 the reasoning makes sense 18:50:03 but i must thank MarvinPA for finally legitimating my assertion that wand acquirement is almost always a bad idea XD 18:50:25 well it also doesn't exist any more 18:50:28 90s limit exceeded: killed !lm * begin current trunk sp|og|mu s=crace mage x=avg(mmp) 18:50:31 ah 18:50:32 haha 18:51:10 the last commit i see just says that wand acq weights were adjusted 18:51:16 not that it was removed 18:51:26 it was a few days back, merged into misc acq 18:51:48 oh 18:51:55 i just didn't go down that far then 18:53:45 I'm confused, the five commits are all right at the top of that list 18:53:56 1653 milestones for * (begin current trunk ((sp || og || mu)) mage): 1140x Mummy [3.08], 284x Ogre [3.73], 229x Spriggan [5.03] 18:54:18 so from 3mmp to 5mmp 18:54:23 if they were to get +2 18:55:17 MarvinPA: I'm fine with +2 for establishing the "high spellcasting apt / low magic skills" thing, and I don't think there's any real balance concern, although it will help the mu mage early game significantly 18:55:36 hold on 18:55:38 yeah, i'd be tempted to throw big numbers around with wild abandon and just go for that 18:55:53 i must be missing something 18:56:23 start big then fine-tune, imo 18:56:28 if any tuning is needed! 18:56:56 sounding like a broken record... 18:57:07 it's the same old song... 18:57:21 -!- Alarkh has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:45 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.20-a0-323-g86bbc9b: Give Mummies a +2 Spellcasting aptitude 10(23 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/86bbc9b3b11d 18:58:06 now that will throw them off our trail 18:58:19 look, buffs! 18:58:28 time to remove that necromancy enhancer! 18:58:38 I didn't learn about that until like less than a year ago 18:58:53 I guess I didn't play a lot of mummies though 18:58:54 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:58:54 haha 18:58:54 gammafunk, can you look at pull 418? 18:59:01 good for hauntomancy i guess, maybe 18:59:01 !pull 418 18:59:04 that one's been languishing for a while because neither PF or I know enough about vaults 18:59:04 !pr 418 18:59:05 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/418 18:59:25 i think i played a mummy hauntomancer once but maybe you can't win just off haunt any more 18:59:40 although incidentally, i think the master link commit page should be either in the topic on ##crawl or on a sticky in tavern 18:59:46 or actually you probably can since all the things it summons got buffed i guess, even if they time out more often 18:59:53 we could publicize it more I guess 18:59:56 haha, it's been a long time since haunt would just win you games 18:59:58 imo 19:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:16 but then i have used it very infrequently 19:01:02 it's always been a good spell, but necro/summoning is basically two schools that you don't really train both of all that often unless you're doing a lot of extended 19:01:55 since MPA and gammagunk are here, do either of you have strong opinions on 416? I lean towards merging it, I don't really see a good reason we should let the player wield junk. And ascending wielding a snozzcumber/Orb of Zot days are long gone... 19:01:57 Brannock: yeah I can take a look at that one later, after I do internet things 19:02:06 416: don't let player wield useless items 19:02:12 yeah that seems fine 19:02:40 lemme test that locally and see if I can break it, though the code looks fine 19:03:06 As the author of speedrun_rest.lua, I have to recuse myself 19:03:07 i feel like i looked into something along those lines locally and it turned out to be more complicated than i'd have expected, but i may well be thinking of something different 19:04:38 RIP mara bread ghosts 19:05:58 hmm, does it stop you wielding decks/other evokables out of interest? 19:06:14 finding out once this compile finishes 19:07:40 since it's technically useless but if you really want you can do it in order to trade turns for a better interface, i guess 19:07:59 if it's not possible that's fine imo but probably means there's dead code lying around somewhere 19:08:23 well, rods still need to be wieldable don't they? 19:08:48 for now..... 19:08:49 rods may not be long for this world... 19:08:51 haha 19:08:55 noooooooo 19:09:18 but yes they're probably handled separately, i'm thinking specifically about decks/wands/misc evo items 19:09:20 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.20-a0-323-g86bbc9b (34) 19:09:26 i get the idea to make evo a bit less powerful than it is 19:09:33 heh, i figured they were 19:09:44 -!- wheals_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:09:46 but i would really be sad about rod removal 19:09:56 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 19:10:01 i mean, i don't use them on plenty of chars that could use them perfectly well 19:10:05 atm I think they're being mostly moved to wands 19:10:08 with one of them going to misc 19:10:12 so it's not exactly a "removal" 19:10:15 oh 19:10:16 yes, see crd for a bunch of discussion on it 19:10:19 well, i can live with that 19:10:54 is crd on the wiki or the mailing list? 19:11:11 ??crd 19:11:11 c-r-d[1/2]: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/crawl-ref-discuss 19:11:15 (the latter) 19:11:15 haha 19:11:30 yeah, i knew the mailing list was linked somewhere 19:11:40 but i can never remember what it's called unless someone tells me 19:11:47 MarvinPA: I was moved by the Mummy commit. Many thanks! 19:11:52 since i'm not one of the cool kids 19:11:57 (and happy about the wands removal, yay!) 19:12:05 :) 19:12:09 +2 spc for mummies is pretty cool imo 19:12:30 oh 19:12:31 haha 19:12:36 i can just subscribe to the list 19:12:39 what a plebe i am 19:12:53 people always just sent me to the archive every other time i asked 19:13:02 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:13:08 ProzacElf: you can actually send mails to the list, too, although I (or, theoretically, Grunt) have to approve. 19:13:43 MarvinPA: I've prepared SA for the wand removal. Let's see how ballistic they'll go. 19:14:39 btw, now that DD recharing is gone, I wonder how many people have used it something other than a wand of heal wounds... 19:16:40 I used it on acid a couple times 19:16:53 nice, I like 19:19:47 Brannock: how stoned were you 19:20:00 -!- ZugAddict has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:20:26 haha 19:20:29 I needed ranged damage badly 19:21:04 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 19:22:33 MarvinPA, it does prevent wielding evokables and misc 19:22:43 patch seems robust enough, I can't break it 19:23:18 and at this point, I think wielding non-weapons is kind of spoilery behavior, since 'w' screen brings up weapons only 19:23:35 -!- wheals_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:23:54 re: dead code, probably the code that prompts the player for attacking with useless items, though we'd want to keep that for attacking with launchers/rods 19:24:39 Brannock: i was thinking the handling for evoking wands/decks etc with v when wielded 19:24:46 that'd be unused if you can't now wield them 19:25:09 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:25:14 trying to decide whether or not that's a good thing to keep 19:25:16 I've never used it 19:25:33 Now that I think of it, I only ever use 'v' for polearm reaching really 19:25:35 Lasty's ranged reform would do away with that, too 19:25:52 dpeg: i once used DD recharge on a haste wand! 19:26:17 i don't think it's particularly worth keeping, it's not a useful thing to actually do 19:26:53 Lemme hunt down the dead code, then 19:29:22 probably related to item_is_evokable and its billion parameters 19:29:35 !source item_is_evokable 19:29:36 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/invent.cc#L1995 19:32:15 looks like maybe there's no explicit handling for it and it's just implied 19:32:27 tile_item_use looks pertinent? 19:32:56 oh maybe, tiles commands are a good thing that always get forgotten about 19:37:52 ah yeah this is more complicated after all, there's a bunch of related stuff in player::could_wield 19:39:04 probably not all three of that and can_wield and item_is_wieldable would still be necessary 19:39:20 I regret investigating this PR 19:39:27 crawlcode :') 19:39:32 guess now I get to learn more about Crawl's guts 19:40:37 there's a fun comment around one of those functions that claims undead/demonspawn can't wield scrolls of holy word 19:41:18 (sadly the comment is wrong and last time i looked into it i think it had never actually worked that way, but still) 19:43:29 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:43:59 this PR disables wielding of stones and large rocks 19:44:11 just realized while looking at item_is_wieldable 19:44:13 which means no more sandblast tech 19:44:31 and fixing that means putting in a special case for one particular type of missile 19:44:52 <|amethyst> make it work like sticks to snakes 19:45:05 good lord this just keeps growing and growing 19:45:16 <|amethyst> (with no fallback for when you are out of stones) 19:47:05 <|amethyst> that will also let you reduce the number of ZAP_*SANDBLASTs from 3 to 1 19:48:01 |amethyst: yes, good idea 19:55:20 !source itemname.cc:3467 19:55:21 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/itemname.cc#L3467 19:55:25 this is quite the conditional, by the way 20:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:13 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 20:10:40 looking at cast_sticks_or_snakes I feel like there's maybe a less convoluted way to handle that spell 20:11:19 I wonder how much of this is a relic from the days that missiles could be enchanted, so it made sense to test each arrow individually 20:11:40 s/or/to 20:12:20 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 20:13:26 -!- Taraiph has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:14:31 <|amethyst> Brannock: probably could be merged with the check in ABIL_ASHENZARI_CURSE 20:15:04 <|amethyst> Brannock: err, into a single function to check for items of a particular type to sacrifice 20:15:11 I'm rapidly shaving the yak, so let me focus on fixing up Sandblast, then hunting down the rest of the dead wieldable code, before I start wrestling with S2S 20:15:42 <|amethyst> but, yeah, that if/else in cast_sticks_to_snakes is dead 20:15:49 Brannock: if you accidentally remove Sandblast or S2S, players will curse you as flavour stealer until the end of time! 20:26:11 -!- gdc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26:21 -!- sooheon has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:26:36 -!- gdc has joined ##crawl-dev 20:30:50 -!- keyvin has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:33:17 the recent batch should make for a fun trunk updates blog posting 20:34:21 @Brannock what are you doing with the yak 20:36:34 Lightli, are you familiar with the phrase "yak shaving"? 20:36:40 no 20:36:44 look it up, it's a fun one 20:37:03 oh 20:37:11 I mistook it for being a hint that you were going to remove yaks 20:37:21 Yeah I started this just wanting to merge a PR 20:37:27 now I'm doing a lot of refactoring 20:37:32 And removing two versions of a spell 20:37:35 And still have to find some dead code!! 20:38:28 also I see my threat to not play crawl until /hw+/haste+/tele were removed did not have the effect of keeping that from happening 20:38:35 (thank god) 20:41:15 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:41:21 so MarvinPA = god? 20:41:42 powered by void 20:44:37 -!- cait has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:44:49 I just realized that /tele removal is a Mennas buff 20:44:55 yay! 20:44:57 no more ways to teleport away from him once silence goes up 20:45:14 (also a Ereshkigal buff for the same reasons) 20:45:27 dig out that distortion club and desperately self-banish 20:45:47 fan of gales suddenly very useful 20:45:58 chug gofast, activate fan, run 20:47:01 I am your biggest fan, you can activate me anytime, Brannock :) 20:48:16 I dunno why some people don't think it's good 20:48:31 being able to instantly shove away everything surrounding you is highly useful 20:50:01 -!- Scattercatt has quit [Client Quit] 20:54:23 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:56:15 okay, sandblast is fixed, now to get back to dead wieldable code... 20:56:32 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 20:57:31 hey, tavern is getting into gear with another top-quality posting by tabstorm... will the fury beat gammafunk's achievement? 20:59:24 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:16 looking good for Marvin 21:02:13 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:33 Brannock: I don't think you ever changed the console color of acid dragons 21:06:35 @??acid dragon 21:06:35 acid dragon (13D) | Spd: 10 | HD: 5 | HP: 22-32 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 15, 6 | fly | Res: 06magic(20), 03poison, 08acid | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 155 | Sp: spit acid (3d7) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath] | Sz: Big | Int: animal. 21:06:39 still purple 21:08:00 they can spit purple acid 21:09:09 there was a long discussion on what color to make them and then issues with golden dragons / hydra / whatever came up 21:09:19 I don't play console so I think? I resolved to leave it to a console player 21:09:21 ??glyphs 21:09:21 glyphs[1/3]: http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/crawl-glyphs-narrow.html — Generated with the script http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/crawl-glyphs 21:09:43 this claims acid dragons are yellow...? 21:11:31 %git e5586d94 21:11:31 07Brannock02 * e5586d949a1a: Fix glyph color for acid dragons 10(4 weeks ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e5586d949a1a 21:14:50 @-version 21:14:50 geekosaur: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 21:14:51 oh I guess it needed to be regenerated 21:15:02 @??-version 21:15:02 Monster stats Crawl version: 0.20-a0-309-gcba9277 21:15:12 %git 21:15:12 07MarvinPA02 * 0.20-a0-323-g86bbc9b: Give Mummies a +2 Spellcasting aptitude 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/86bbc9b3b11d 21:15:21 yeah the script isn't automated 21:17:22 -!- bh__ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:17:31 !tell PleasingFungus signing certificates cost money; this is normal across the board. (You can create a self-signed cert but it won't validate for other people.) 21:17:32 geekosaur: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 21:18:13 use letsencrypt? 21:19:51 -!- sneakyness has joined ##crawl-dev 21:22:40 !tell pleasingfungus use letsencrypt. I have no other context on your conversation with geekosaur 21:22:41 bh__: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 21:22:57 bh__, signing certs for apple packages 21:23:08 must be signed by apple's CA 21:24:27 !tell pleasingfungus ...sadly that won't work as gatekeeper will consider any signing cert not verified by Apple's CA invalid 21:24:27 geekosaur: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 21:24:54 geekosaur: ah. yeah, that sucks 21:27:26 -!- MIC132 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:28:25 -!- MIC132 has quit [Client Quit] 21:30:10 -!- bh__ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:30:46 alexjurkiewicz, you here? 21:31:38 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 21:33:55 -!- MIC132 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:33:55 -!- MIC132 has quit [Client Quit] 21:36:41 -!- jefus- has joined ##crawl-dev 21:37:51 hmm, I'm gonna call it a night on working on this. Having trouble actually understanding the menu code, and there's a crash bug involved because of a range error. So maybe some other eyes would help, else I'll revisit this in a while 21:38:19 New branch created: useless (8 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/useless 21:38:20 03alexjurkiewicz02 07[useless] * 0.20-a0-218-g83542ca: Don't let the player wield useless items 10(3 weeks ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/83542ca9c00a 21:38:20 03Brannock02 07[useless] * 0.20-a0-325-g7b38e64: Merge branch 'useless-wield' of git://github.com/alexjurkiewicz/crawl-ref into useless 10(2 hours ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7b38e642d919 21:38:20 03Brannock02 07[useless] * 0.20-a0-326-g9104e05: Rework and simplify Sandblast 10(47 minutes ago, 1 file, 17+ 12-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9104e05b0821 21:38:20 03Brannock02 07[useless] * 0.20-a0-327-gdcd7e0a: Remove large and small ZAP_*SANDBLASTs 10(46 minutes ago, 3 files, 1+ 43-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dcd7e0a82a64 21:38:20 03Brannock02 07[useless] * 0.20-a0-328-g30dcd75: Make Sandblast range baseline 10(46 minutes ago, 2 files, 1+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/30dcd755f4c7 21:38:20 03Brannock02 07[useless] * 0.20-a0-329-gc58a994: Prune an unused function 10(45 minutes ago, 2 files, 0+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c58a994d9f82 21:38:20 03Brannock02 07[useless] * 0.20-a0-330-g275dc09: Clean up a conditional in is_useless_item 10(44 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/275dc09fa8f7 21:38:20 03Brannock02 07[useless] * 0.20-a0-331-ge044a2e: Update Sandblast/Earth Elementalist descriptions 10(43 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e044a2e56b39 21:40:46 -!- jeefus has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:42:28 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:42:36 Actually, maybe I should just push the Sandblast changes, period 21:42:43 It's not like it's reliant on 416 21:42:53 I'll sleep on it 21:44:10 -!- DevlanMud has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:44:12 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:44:48 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 21:46:51 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 21:53:05 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:56:29 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:56:37 -!- simmarine_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:57:14 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:00 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 22:02:14 -!- simmarine_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:03:39 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:04:35 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:06:34 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:07:04 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:07:44 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 22:11:26 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:12:41 brannock: are you going to increase the amount of starting stones? 20 seems low if every cast uses a stone 22:12:56 yes, I forgot to add that 22:13:00 got cuaght up in removing dead code 22:14:30 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:17:04 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:18:38 -!- simmarine_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:19:53 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 22:19:54 The build passed. (useless - 275dc09 #7414 : Isaac Sloat): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/185655578 22:19:54 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 22:21:01 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 22:23:07 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:25:16 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:25:18 !seen geekosaur 22:25:19 Pleasingfungus: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them. 22:25:19 I last saw geekosaur at Wed Dec 21 02:24:26 2016 UTC (1h 52s ago) saying '!tell pleasingfungus ...sadly that won't work as gatekeeper will consider any signing cert not verified by Apple's CA invalid' on ##crawl-dev. 22:25:38 geekosaur: one of us misunderstood the other, i think 22:25:56 i'll /msg you, this probably doesn't need to be in #-dev 22:26:05 oh, nvm, you're away 22:26:38 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:27:29 !tell geekosaur my issue is earlier. looking at https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/IDEs/Conceptual/AppDistributionGuide/BetaTestingYourMacApp/BetaTestingYourMacApp.html , i get to https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/IDEs/Conceptual/AppDistributionGuide/Art/6.5_export_mac_app_2x.png ... 22:27:29 Pleasingfungus: OK, I'll let geekosaur know. 22:27:46 oops, wrong window 22:29:29 !lg * recent killer=reaper 22:29:30 420. nebgrebaes the Skirmisher (L1 FoAK of Lugonu), mangled by a reaper (a +1 scythe of freezing) on Abyss:1 on 2016-12-21 01:08:30, with 0 points after 52 turns and 0:00:22. 22:29:35 heh 22:29:38 !lg * hells s=killer 22:29:39 4475 games for * (hells): 557x a Brimstone Fiend, 500x a hellion, 467x Antaeus, 453x a Hell Sentinel, 264x, 230x an Ice Fiend, 217x a reaper, 176x an iron giant, 162x the Serpent of Hell, 124x a Fiend, 108x Dispater, 100x a shard shrike, 89x a Shadow Fiend, 87x Asmodeus, 71x a Balrug, 56x a Tzitzimitl, 46x Ereshkigal, 42x a skeletal warrior, 40x a blizzard demon, 39x an eldritch tentacle, 38x an E... 22:29:50 mm, nice 22:29:50 -!- simmarine_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:30:17 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:34:23 * geekosaur sort of still around 22:35:22 i sent you some tells, i guess you got em? 22:35:33 you want the first option; the second is for the whole build environment (signed products + source) 22:35:35 yes 22:36:10 developing for apple sounds like a nightmare 22:36:13 that said I think you wanted option 2 for exporting for distribution; option 3 is to export it to other developers on a project 22:36:29 the first option in the dialogue i sent? it doesn't seem to do anything 22:36:51 wait, nvm, was looking in the wrong dir 22:37:07 tavern is showing a SQl error 22:37:09 too many connections 22:37:26 -!- cosmonaut has joined ##crawl-dev 22:37:33 hm, interesting, here's the executable and frameworks... so that's something, i guess 22:37:35 that is, in https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/IDEs/Conceptual/AppDistributionGuide/Art/6.5_export_mac_app_2x.png you wanted the second option unless you are bringing another developer into the project 22:37:40 but i can't *get* to that dialogue 22:37:45 the one in the official screenshot 22:38:08 @??reaper 22:38:08 reaper (152) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 58-88 | AC/EV: 16/10 | Dam: 45 | 05demonic, 10items, 10doors, fighter, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(100), 02cold, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy | XP: 1472 | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 22:38:12 mm, maybe they changed that. I don't use Xcode very much 22:38:27 but they didn't change their docs!? 22:38:46 the Mac projects I work on mostly ignore Xcode aside from using xcodebuild from a Makefile 22:38:57 what version of Xcode do you have? they change it all the time... 22:39:29 docs "should" be in sync but with probably only the latest version (which should be 8.1) 22:40:08 8.0, 8A218a 22:40:08 * geekosaur refused to install xcode 8 22:40:28 !tell Lasty https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=22600 22:40:28 Brannock: OK, I'll let lasty know. 22:40:33 so what they show is probably for 8.1 22:40:42 am i out of date? shit 22:40:45 i'll try updating, i guess 22:40:50 you're retired, of course you're out of date. 22:40:56 !banish Brannock 22:40:56 Pleasingfungus casts a spell. Brannock is cast into the Abyss! 22:41:02 aaaa 22:41:08 8.1 dropped a couple weeks ago 22:41:25 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:41:51 "oh look, after telling us they'd fix the 10.11 issues in 8.1, here's 8.1 and the CLT is still busted" 22:42:31 -!- tsujin has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:42:48 i have no idea what that is 22:42:50 sounds bad tho 22:43:27 nobody has figured out exact circumstances but you can build something, try to run it and get a dyld error about _clock_gettime, a syscall that is not present on 10.11 22:44:47 fml, every time i hit 'update', it says i need more space. free up space, it changes the number, seemingly at random 22:44:56 -!- Ponzi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:46:03 -!- Pleasingfungus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:23 -!- S1rlancerlott has joined ##crawl-dev 22:47:37 -!- S1rlancerlott has quit [Client Quit] 22:49:57 -!- cait has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:51:38 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:18 -!- Pleasingfungus has joined ##crawl-dev 23:01:01 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 23:01:06 does anyone currently available have powerful opinions on branch "useless", which primarily reworks sandblast (no weak sandblast, stones only, no large sandblasts, removing reliance on pull 416) into a single spell instead of three separate zaps? 23:01:14 otherwise I'm gonna push it 23:03:45 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:05:11 geekosaur: same dialogue :( 23:05:27 Brannock: hrm, a spell that's totally useless without ammo? that could be pretty rough 23:05:34 so to speak 23:05:37 I buffed EE start by 50% to make up for it 23:05:38 what's the motivation? 23:05:39 20 -> 30 stones 23:05:52 code simplification? 23:06:02 primarily reducing redundant zaps, yes, code simplification, also a side effect of wanting to merge a pull that forbade wielding useless items 23:06:06 which turned out to include large rocks and stones 23:06:10 which obstructed sandblast 23:06:15 haha 23:06:20 i'm not honestly very excited by either of those reasons 23:06:32 it's not a very exciting reason to be honest. 23:07:14 and as a maximalist at heart I feel mild consternation about simplifying a spell. But I think removing wielding junk is better for crawl in the end, so this change probably has to happen anyway 23:07:15 i'd be glad to be forbidden to wield random junk 23:07:25 amalloy, can you bugfix 416 then?! 23:07:31 I tried, but it was hard. and there's a crash bug. 23:07:38 you think removing wielding junk is that important? 23:07:43 and our australian friend is off taming kangaroos. 23:07:45 it seems so tiny 23:07:55 -!- Blazinghbnd has joined ##crawl-dev 23:08:07 n offense 23:08:11 Brannock: i've done it many times accidentally and not realized 23:08:18 er, Pleasingfungus 23:08:32 we have people literally advocating wielding bread for Mara and speedrunning. I dunno, it just feels like the exact sort of "weird unintended confluence of mechanics leading to non-intuitive actions" that crawl tries to squish out. 23:08:54 dang, you ruined the stealth breadswinging nerf 23:09:01 amalloy: that still seems like a small reason 23:09:10 Brannock: that is a very bad reason to change it 23:09:28 -!- adelrune has joined ##crawl-dev 23:09:32 not least because it doesn't 'fix' either of those things (insofar as there's something to be fixed) 23:10:02 speedrunners will look for high-delay unskilled weapons (which if anything is more annoying, since you can't just use whatever you have lying around in your inventory); the mara tech was never a good idea in the first place 23:14:26 also, worth noting that our rule is that we don't care about speedrunning, since no one (statistically) does it 23:14:38 or, rather, that we care about it only when it'd affect something else 23:14:40 yeah, not commenting on merits of the change for other reasons, but that commit didn't address either speedrunning nor bad mara strats 23:14:53 er, *when it wouldn't affect anything else... 23:14:57 i think that reducing ui inconvenience is a good goal 23:15:09 we don't allow equipping potions as armor; why not disallow potions as weapons? 23:15:43 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 23:15:54 because potions as armour would have mechanical significance 23:15:59 like, would they fill a slot for acid purposes? 23:16:14 I thought empty aux slots for acid damage was removed 23:16:16 before my time 23:16:16 now THAT would be tech 23:16:28 it was around relatively recently... i'd have to check 23:19:29 You hold the empty potion bottle to your forehead. The acid splashes against the potion bottle! 23:19:29 -!- titanjones has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:21:32 %git 2553e725d 23:21:32 07MarvinPA02 * 0.17-a0-1136-g2553e72: Make acid splashes ignore equipped slots for damage/corrosion 10(1 year, 7 months ago, 1 file, 2+ 37-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2553e725d5b8 23:21:36 god, time flies 23:21:43 age creeps up onto you... 23:21:59 anything that was changed after i started paying attention to crawl dev is New 23:22:05 anything that was changed before is Ancient Beyond Measure 23:22:06 so it is written. 23:22:20 RIP brown toads 23:22:39 :( 23:22:52 So for the Sandblast thing I really do feel the loss of power for Og/Tr EE but I think it's good to unify the behavior of the spell 23:23:01 And it does simplify interface 23:23:04 i don't care at all about large sandblasts 23:23:08 i think that's flavor 23:23:10 it's good flavor tho 23:23:15 It is! 23:23:23 what do you mean by "unify the behavior"? 23:23:34 no stone; have stone; have large rock 23:23:37 03CanOfWorms02 {GitHub} 07* 0.20-a0-324-g149db07: Fix a connectivity problem with the_grid 10(12 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/149db0740e83 23:23:43 or the 4th case 23:23:47 have ammo, but don't use it intentionally 23:23:55 the spell behaves differently for all cases 23:23:58 no other spell does this 23:24:08 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 23:24:10 sticks 2 snakes comes close, but that spell can be simplified a lot 23:24:18 okay, so: you still haven't said anything bad 23:24:21 in fact, you said several good things 23:24:43 you described the way in which the ee start feels unique, compared to other starts 23:24:50 the early start? w/e 23:25:13 post-sandblast they're still unique, they rely on ammunition and other starts don't. you're highly encouraged to find a weapon, as well as delving deeper quickly to find more stone ammo. 23:25:26 okay, but: 23:25:33 you still haven't explained why your way is *better* 23:25:57 -!- Lasty has quit [Client Quit] 23:26:26 also, i literally just came up with a better fix for the ui issue 23:26:29 and i'm gonna implement it 23:26:43 friendliness to new players, primarily. sandblast behavior is highly spoilery, even for the new players who bother to dig through 1-3 levels of commands to read descriptions. while I do venerate flavor I'm more sympathetic to new player experience 23:26:56 explain to me how it's spoilery. 23:27:27 no other spell requires that you wield an item (a non-weapon item, at that) to function at full power (contra "more-than-regular power") 23:27:40 to know this you have to read the spell description, know that you can read spell descriptions 23:27:55 well reading a spell description isn't reading a spoiler 23:27:56 i think that if we describe any spell as "spoilery" that requires you to read the description, we would have to remove spellcasting. 23:27:58 just to be clear 23:28:00 Freeze is za., Flame Tongue is za., Shock is za. (with maybe some bouncing) 23:28:02 seriously, brannock 23:28:04 seriously? 23:28:09 seriously. 23:28:12 seriously. 23:28:15 seriously! 23:28:17 !! 23:28:20 s e r i o u s l y 23:28:25 !flip seriously 23:28:25 (╯°□°)╯︵ʎlsn°ᴉɹǝs 23:28:26 anyway: that is a really, really dumb argument 23:28:59 yeah spell descriptions are most definitely not spoilers, although I'm sure people don't know about the rocks thing 23:29:21 the solution to that is to improve our ui, not to give up on any spell more complex than za! 23:29:43 Is the ui improvement just to automatically consume rocks from inventory? 23:29:47 That's pretty much half my commit 23:29:57 oh, i meant to improve the ui for examining spell descriptions 23:30:02 oic 23:30:26 suggestion: Sandblast -> Meteo (requires 99 MP to cast) 23:30:29 auto-consuming rocks from inventory is an *actual* reason to make the change 23:30:34 qol improvement 23:30:56 and it requires removing weak sandblast & large sandblast; no selection for the latter, former encourages strategic rock dropping 23:31:14 -!- wheals has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:24 if you said you were doing that, i don't think we would have needed to have this whole argument! 23:31:30 No, I appreciate it 23:31:36 -!- purge has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:31:39 developing my reasoning is always good 23:31:43 And I'm gonna add that line to my commit message 23:31:45 lemme reword this 23:32:24 and now strategic rock dropping reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Aq-gm3An0&feature=youtu.be 23:32:27 so really we're all winners 23:32:45 -!- adelrune has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:32:53 what in the world 23:33:02 i think the title + description clears it up 23:33:07 is this finally the True Survival Game 23:33:13 that actually addresses evacuation 23:33:17 you know it 23:33:23 comments are good too 23:33:31 lol 23:33:47 we have some vaults that look like that 23:34:00 i feel like we removed most of those 23:34:01 or cleaned them up a bit 23:34:18 rock dropping EE makes me think we have finally introduced basketball to crawl with ogres + large rocks 23:34:19 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:34:31 removed before it was ever added...! 23:34:40 the flavour cost 23:35:24 Brannock: anyway, don't remove wielding unusables yet, separately from the ee thing. i have a PLan 23:35:28 a Plan, too 23:36:08 yeah, I still need alexj to fix the bug I pointed out in 416 23:36:19 so I'll just push the sandblast/ee 23:36:37 -!- flappity has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:39:09 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=22598 23:39:26 I guess MPA outplayed me, meme wise 23:39:45 oh, it happened 23:39:47 and i missed it! 23:39:52 The Ogres AND wands? How do you compete with that? you don't. 23:39:59 I do mildly sympathize with the calls about "Stone Soup", on the other hand I feel like a lot of these people haven't actually read the story of Stone Soup and realized that stone soup actually sucks, it was a desperate call for addition into the soup. Any true cook would have carefully curated community potluck additions into the soup 23:40:36 this soup...is meta...??? 23:41:35 gammafunk: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?p=301421#p301421 damn, you got nailed 23:41:49 http://i.imgur.com/GgKGBov.png 23:41:56 what, that was literally in my post somewhere 23:42:02 this needs to go somewhere. it's important 23:42:04 I'm not shy about cheating to beat PurpleRed 23:42:09 lol 23:42:15 whoooo... 23:42:38 not even the best that pubby has done tbh 23:42:49 he's not over me absolutely crushing him at golden axe 23:42:50 !learn add pubby http://i.imgur.com/GgKGBov.png 23:42:51 pubby[1/1]: http://i.imgur.com/GgKGBov.png 23:42:52 it was a slaughter 23:43:01 pf: shouldn't that be gammafunk though 23:43:10 I told him to jump attack the final boss and he didn't listen, and he died 23:43:46 oh shit you're right 23:44:02 !learn del pubby 23:44:02 Deleted pubby[1/1]: http://i.imgur.com/GgKGBov.png 23:44:08 !learn add gammafunk http://i.imgur.com/GgKGBov.png 23:44:08 gammafunk[7/7]: http://i.imgur.com/GgKGBov.png 23:44:18 perfect. 23:44:18 !learn del gammafunk[7] 23:44:18 Deleted gammafunk[7/7]: http://i.imgur.com/GgKGBov.png 23:44:18 fine 23:44:20 i will give it a home 23:44:21 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 23:44:22 dev wars... 23:44:46 !learn s pleasing_fungus[8 http://i.imgur.com/GgKGBov.png 23:44:47 pleasing fungus[1/1]: http://i.imgur.com/GgKGBov.png 23:44:57 shit 23:44:58 the hell is that 23:45:01 whoops! 23:45:01 !learn del pleasing_fungus 23:45:01 Deleted pleasing fungus[1/1]: http://i.imgur.com/GgKGBov.png 23:45:03 maybe replace one of the devteam entries? 23:45:07 you deleted the funguy 23:45:09 !learn s pleasingfungus[8 http://i.imgur.com/GgKGBov.png 23:45:10 pleasingfungus[8/27]: http://i.imgur.com/GgKGBov.png 23:45:12 there we go 23:45:15 yeah 23:45:17 it is safe now, with me. 23:45:18 1learn add gammafunk http://i.imgur.com/removed.png 23:45:20 I'm sure 3 mo. from now 23:45:29 that entry will definitely still be there 23:45:32 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:45:35 don't you dare!!! 23:45:37 you better check every. single. day. 23:45:41 of the rest of your life.... 23:45:45 the plot thickens 23:45:51 this is messed up 23:46:33 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:46:57 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 23:47:10 !learn add fanfiction http://i.imgur.com/MMzsZPA.png 23:47:10 fanfiction[12/12]: http://i.imgur.com/MMzsZPA.png 23:47:29 lol 23:47:35 powerful 23:47:36 did you ever write that up 23:47:51 MD was a melee dude with a slight buff to fire apts that were given to Hill Orc. 23:47:53 High Elf was a semi-challenge race with that filled several nuances and niches that was removed for the meme. 23:48:10 it's still being written, kind of slow with all the other stuff i have to do though 23:48:21 -!- Rast is now known as rast 23:48:29 "MD was a melee dude with a slight buff to fire apts that were given to Hill Orc. High Elf was a semi-challenge race with that filled several nuances and niches that was removed for the meme." 23:48:32 dammit pf 23:52:29 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:52:38 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:52:39 lol 23:52:42 too slow.... 23:53:26 took it too easy 23:53:26 heh, https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=22600 23:53:54 03Brannock02 07* 0.20-a0-325-gef5153f: Rework and simplify Sandblast 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 17+ 12-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ef5153f041f0 23:53:54 03Brannock02 07* 0.20-a0-326-gbbeb9b0c: Remove large and small ZAP_*SANDBLASTs 10(3 hours ago, 3 files, 1+ 43-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bbeb9b0cffc1 23:53:54 03Brannock02 07* 0.20-a0-327-ga533876: Make Sandblast range baseline 10(3 hours ago, 2 files, 1+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a53387690cdf 23:53:54 03Brannock02 07* 0.20-a0-328-g21fc545: Prune an unused function 10(3 hours ago, 2 files, 0+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/21fc545a8ffb 23:53:54 03Brannock02 07* 0.20-a0-329-gdd029aa: Clean up a conditional in is_useless_item 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dd029aaabe9d 23:53:54 03Brannock02 07* 0.20-a0-330-gd91524c: Update Sandblast/Earth Elementalist descriptions 10(3 hours ago, 2 files, 4+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d91524c122a8 23:53:54 03Brannock02 07* 0.20-a0-331-g5b3579f: Buff Earth Elementalist starts by 50% 10(69 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5b3579f804b6 23:54:06 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 23:54:06 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:55:24 -!- Blazinghbnd has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:56:10 Brannock: do you remember which ds/dr monsters you removed? asking for a thread 23:56:29 Ds: Putrid Demonspawn and Chaos Champions. Dr: Mottled Draconian and Draconian Zealot 23:57:08 tyvm! 23:57:22 np 23:58:08 hm, none of the demonspawn are in TAG_MAJOR blocks 23:58:15 just // removed 23:58:37 oh, i see 23:58:38 nvm 23:59:09 oh, how did I overlook that? 23:59:26 um, I think there was a reason I didn't tag them 23:59:29 trying to remember 23:59:32 this was a few months ago at this point 23:59:37 you did it right 23:59:44 it's because they're already in the huge TAG_MAJOR block at the end 23:59:44 I tagged mottled and zealots though.. 23:59:51 -!- laj1 has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:59:58 oh yeah 23:59:59 so you deleted them from the > 34 block where they're going to be hypothetically moved