00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:46 -!- Shard1697 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:04:20 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.19-a0-1260-gc94d3f7 (34) 00:05:46 -!- MadCoyote has quit [Read error: Network is unreachable] 00:07:50 spoiler: it didn't work 00:08:44 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 00:14:24 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:18:46 -!- minqmay has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:21:45 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:22:13 -!- minmay has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:24:15 -!- kdrnic_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:30:13 -!- kdrnic has joined ##crawl-dev 00:32:15 -!- Brickman has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:34:13 -!- Jafet has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:39:20 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 00:50:03 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:52:27 Brannock: yeah... xl13 was way too early, even the saltlings are scary. but I wanted to see it in tiles! 00:52:43 !kw desolation 00:52:43 No keyword 'desolation' 00:52:44 -!- rrkfxvxc has quit [] 00:52:51 !lg * place=desolation 00:52:52 6. SirSamVimes the Sniper (L20 KoHu of Okawaru), slain by a peacekeeper in Desolation (desolation_of_salt) on 2016-08-27 23:29:31, with 237640 points after 35501 turns and 2:18:01. 00:52:55 !lg * br=desolation 00:52:56 6. SirSamVimes the Sniper (L20 KoHu of Okawaru), slain by a peacekeeper in Desolation (desolation_of_salt) on 2016-08-27 23:29:31, with 237640 points after 35501 turns and 2:18:01. 00:53:10 !kw desolation br=desolation 00:53:11 Defined keyword: desolation => br=desolation 00:53:14 !kw salt desolation 00:53:15 Defined keyword: salt => desolation 00:53:27 !cmd !desolated !lg * desolation 00:53:27 Defined command: !desolated => !lg * desolation 00:53:30 !desolated 00:53:31 6. SirSamVimes the Sniper (L20 KoHu of Okawaru), slain by a peacekeeper in Desolation (desolation_of_salt) on 2016-08-27 23:29:31, with 237640 points after 35501 turns and 2:18:01. 00:53:41 good keyword 00:53:41 Brannock: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 00:53:45 !messages 00:53:46 (1/1) minmay said (53m 54s ago): i had a dream once that there wre two gnomes that realized they were in my dream and they didn't want me to die so they tried to keep me from waking up 00:53:47 !tell pleasingfungus !desolated 00:53:47 chequers: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 00:53:58 !tell minmay FR: dream gnomes 00:53:59 Brannock: OK, I'll let minmay know. 00:55:15 chequers, I think Salt is more comparable to Elf 3 than Elf 1, though PF did say he wanted it to be more dangerous than where it actually shows up (as with many other portal vaults) 00:55:27 That is to say, XL17-20 00:56:02 I love the fog machines and open layout. It's a very fresh idea and something that Crawl really needs. Layouts are as important as monsters 00:57:25 -!- Shard1697 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:57:29 yep. the dynamic cover and high stealth bonus is very interesting 00:57:48 I was finding I was appreciably stealthy in there, despite not putting any points in it 00:58:20 Dealing with cloud LOS is a unique challenge 01:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:20 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:00:48 -!- Dracunos7 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:10:55 salt looked fun to me but i haven't played it yet 01:12:35 -!- kdrnic_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:16:04 -!- kdrnic has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:16:56 -!- kdrnic has joined ##crawl-dev 01:17:06 -!- kdrnic_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:17:50 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 01:18:27 !tell marvinpa wrt desolation, earlier drafts had the player enter in the middle of the level (with a decent amount of space between enemies/ruins and the start, but no real cover to retreat to); that might be a better approach to go back to? 01:18:27 PleasingFungus: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 01:18:27 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 01:19:04 would it be too gimmicky to have walls collapse soon after you enter Desolation 01:19:05 !tell marvinpa i'd be extremely sad to lose the billion clouds; they seem to be very fun to play with thus far 01:19:06 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 01:19:11 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.19-a0-1260-gc94d3f7 (34) 01:19:35 so maybe you get to figure out why the cloud code is so slow :p 01:19:37 gives the player some space early on to realize what they got into, without allowing them to continually draw enemies back to real-cover 01:19:37 !tell marvinpa it could be simpler to use a static terrain type that has the same opacity/movement rules as clouds, rather than cloud generators? 01:19:38 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 01:19:54 Brannock: perhaps overly complex 01:20:23 (unfortunately I suspect that's just spending all the time shuffling clouds around the generators...) 01:22:13 static terrain loses a slight amount of flavor re: amorphous clouds but could solve at once both the solid-wall problem and the processing-time problem 01:22:23 static salt clouds I mean 01:22:48 saltstorm terrain 01:22:49 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:23:15 how would static terrain interact with calm winds? 01:23:22 total removal? Partial? 01:24:34 possibly you could make some effect that changed opacity rules. possibly you could make something that just toggles this terrain. possibly you'd remove it. 01:26:02 still winds isn't a core part of the design, just something that seemed like it could be fun to play with. 01:27:25 I don't know if I would say "not core"... in a level that open, suddenly exposing you to any and all monsters in los is a highly tactical moment that forces important decisions 01:27:34 especially with the presence of guardian serpents 01:28:12 those are the reasons why it is potentially interesting, but those are not things that make it 'core'. 01:28:32 what do you see as 'core'? the saltling/buff interaction? 01:28:39 strengthening your core is the key to fitness, after all 01:28:42 :) 01:28:56 it's true! 01:29:14 all the best exercises work your core! 01:30:45 core ideas: (a) large numbers of weak enemies with supporting allies (force multipliers), (b) use of clouds as terrain. 01:31:07 (a) is more core than (b), but (b) seems cooler than (a) in initial playtesting. 01:32:19 (b) is much more novel... it may turn out that (a) is longer-lasting once people get accustomed to having a crawl level that isn't corridory 01:34:24 shoals and lair already exist 01:35:36 ime in lair I'm either using axes/aoe magic, or I'm actively looking for nearby chokepoints. shoals I actually like quite a lot re: mixture of monster types and intelligent positioning 01:35:50 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 01:36:17 desolation bypasses all three of these considerations: aoe effects get absorbed by injury bond, there are no chokepoints, and positioning is radically different thanks to lack of walls 01:36:19 -!- kdrnic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:36:23 which makes it fascinating as a portal 01:36:36 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 01:37:01 needs some percolation time, I'm sure reactions will be different in a month 01:37:05 aoe effects don't get absorbed by injury bond 01:37:30 if you're trying to imply that you can't use AOE that's definitely not true; that effect simply isn't powerful enough to prevent AOE 01:37:38 I think the high-noise aspect of salt is not ideal, because it makes splitting up large groups easier 01:37:48 'prevent' is a strong term, I mean 'dampen' 01:38:06 having said that, it's novel to have a high noise branch, since it's the first, and there are *lots* of low-noise branches 01:38:06 I've really never had injury bond have a significant impact on my ability to use AOE 01:38:17 several extra turns don't matter? 01:38:25 in vaults I try to remove preservers asap 01:38:39 Yeah my AOE has always worked very well in vaults 01:38:48 fcloud, fireball, bolt spells etc 01:38:55 -!- kdrnic has joined ##crawl-dev 01:39:16 yeah i think you're overvaluing injury bond 01:39:16 depends on the monster type... in desolation, saltlings remaining alive matters 01:39:34 did you ever experiment with, instead of cloud generators, just making every open square have a chance of spawning a salt cloud? 01:39:46 sounds even more processor intensive 01:39:53 to this amateur 01:40:00 -!- kdrnic has quit [Client Quit] 01:40:16 is the processor thing really a problem? how many order of magnitude worse is salt than a normal level 01:40:33 no one's profiled 01:41:03 because crawl is so CPU-light right now, for a single branch, I feel a level could be 10-50x more intensive without real issue 01:41:03 people just bitched about resting times 01:41:03 wrt webtiles resources at least 01:41:25 resting times are noticeably longer in salt than anywhere else, but actual play takes a seemingly normal amount of time 01:41:29 tbh it could easily be an issue with sending/redrawing tiles changed by clouds rather than actually one with recalculating them 01:41:32 not sure what's going on there 01:41:41 esp since i haven't noticed any issue locally 01:42:13 backtracking momentarily: making every open tile sometimes have clouds would mean there was no terrain 01:42:32 sounds abyss-y 01:42:37 extreme amount of noise 01:43:04 <|amethyst> locally, with a webtiles build in console mode, it takes about 4 seconds to wait for 100 turns 01:43:33 in desol? 01:43:35 well, the abyss is random and it has terrain :P 01:43:35 <|amethyst> yes 01:43:48 you could do something like a given tile has a very low chance to generate a large cloud, and affected tiles have a long "cooldown" before they can generate clouds 01:43:54 but i do get your point, the generators make me try to stick close to them and lure enemies into the dust 01:44:12 Brannock: i think we'd want to have more understanding of the problem before we try to solve it 01:44:14 total solid snake distract + assassinate 01:44:19 agreed, I'm just spitballing here 01:44:25 performance issues very rarely benefit from shotgun debugging 01:44:28 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 01:44:33 don't mind anything I've said tonight, I'm home after going out 01:44:37 i'm personally asleep 01:44:43 can't go to bed until this cat gets worn out 01:44:46 i'm going out after home 01:44:47 meow 01:44:47 but aside from that i'm dead to the world 01:44:58 did you see arivia stalking me in crawl thread 01:45:00 ! 01:45:01 that was weird, imo 01:45:22 internet posters tend to have different views on boundaries 01:45:35 "crawl thread"? 01:45:39 oh is this a 4chan/sa thing 01:45:42 nvm 01:45:43 lol 01:45:44 SA 01:45:50 i would not be caught dead on 4chan 01:46:31 I spent most of the past two weeks at my friend's house in toronto and his cat is an outdoors cat who immediately took to me... was interesting interacting with an outdoors cat instead of a domesticated one, this one was almost all skin-and-bones instead of indolent 01:46:31 heh 01:46:31 also much sassier 01:46:31 i'm sorry... that you post on SA 01:46:31 now you have the cat plague 01:46:31 toxo..! 01:46:31 !banish chequers 01:46:31 PleasingFungus casts a spell. chequers is cast into the Abyss! 01:46:31 PleasingFungus: just pick your cat up by the front paws and spin around 01:46:34 that tires 'em right out 01:46:53 sounds like a great way to get punctures in your hand skin 01:48:08 anyway I think Salt is one of the most fascinating additions yet because of the monsters **and** the layout and how they interact with each other 01:48:27 in some of the older branches (snake!) you can see that the monsters and layouts don't really interact very much 01:49:06 -!- hellmonk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:49:07 like was mentioned earlier, Crystal Guardians in Desolation aren't as strong as they are in Elf/Wizlab -- that's almost entirely terrain 01:49:26 I don't get it, how are they not as strong? 01:49:29 bouncing 01:49:32 walls 01:49:36 that's like way insignificant 01:49:48 they're strong because of the damage they do, the defenses they have, hp etc 01:50:43 Maybe I'm mistaken but enemies like eels and shock serpents have shaped how I react to crystals, I actively try to move away from walls to avoid double-hits 01:50:48 -!- Jafet has joined ##crawl-dev 01:52:00 Sure but this is a very easy thing to do; The vast majority of the danger posed by those things comes from the basics of their attacks/defenses 01:52:00 Crystal guardians are just high damage monsters with strong defenses, hence they are indeed dangerous 01:52:19 they check two resistances as well, which alone is probably more a factor than bolt bouncing 01:52:33 Brannock, don't worry about gammafunk. he doesn't believe that crawl exists outside a perfectly flat plane 01:52:38 Not that it has literally no effect, it's just not a very strong aspect in what makes them difficult 01:52:48 featureless plane, one monster at a time, frictionless cows... you know 01:52:51 the threat of spike damage is more concerning than their average melee damage, if that makes sense? I can handle 25-35 damage a turn.. but 2, 4, 75 is a lot more concerning 01:53:01 much harder to plan for 01:53:27 It's not much a plan you have to hatch if it's don't be in a line of doublezap 01:53:30 so for serpents/guardians I try to minimize the chances of huge spike damage, and in Desolation you don't have to worry about that spike damage 01:53:43 well this is what I mean about terrain layout 01:54:10 in Snake, you don't want to be surrounded by naga/salamander, but if a guardian/shock serpent is in the mix, you have to expose yourself to more tiles than usual 01:54:19 gammafunk doesn't think crawl exists in a perfectly flat plane, he just thinks it's a game you can actually play and use strategy if you want to win 01:54:24 hence it's important to consider 01:54:35 maybe crawl exists in the complex plane after all... 01:54:36 I agree! 01:54:56 well guardian serpants basically have no relation to the c. guardian effect 01:55:00 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.19-a0-1260-gc94d3f7 01:55:14 if you let them keep their bolt bouncing but markedly lowered that average damage you refer to 01:55:18 they'd cease to be a threat 01:55:27 no, the bigger threat in Desolation, going from my *extremely* anecdotal experience, is saltlings, resonance strike, and agony 01:55:32 -!- grisha5 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:55:47 crystal guardians in other branches are more of a concern thanks to the potential of double hits 01:55:50 -!- Tarara has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:56:09 well I can't comment on how actually dangerous those things are, but in my run-through and in araganzars playthrough it involved a ton of shouting and resting at the entrance 01:56:17 to clear out a large % of the monsters 01:56:21 !lg * br=desolation s=killer 01:56:21 6 games for * (br=desolation): 2x a peacekeeper, 2x a saltling, a crystal guardian, a ragged hierophant 01:56:27 that goes back to the original initiator of this conversation, that walls don't really have a place in Salt 01:56:32 gammafunk: i think that's fairly easy to deal with 01:56:36 as i said at the start of this conversation 01:56:55 PleasingFungus, I'm amazed myrmidons don't have a kill yet 01:57:28 they're less common 01:57:29 does resonance strike credit saltling or hierophant? 01:57:35 halazids probably also need to be tweaked in some way, idk 01:57:42 for killer, that'd be hierophant 01:57:48 so only one kill directly from that so far 01:58:06 -!- VoxSomniator has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:58:11 ikiller is probably hierophant 01:58:15 er, saltling* 01:58:28 !lg * br=desolation s=ikiller 01:58:29 6 games for * (br=desolation): 2x a peacekeeper, 2x a saltling, a crystal guardian, a ragged hierophant 01:58:31 !lg * br=desolation s=kmap 01:58:32 6 games for * (br=desolation): 4x desolation_of_salt, desolation_of_salt; desolation_ruin_diamond_intact, desolation_of_salt; desolation_ruin_lobes 01:58:34 !lg * br=desolation ikiller~~hierophant 01:58:35 1. eragonby the Severer (L18 MiFi of Okawaru), blasted by a ragged hierophant (a resonance strike) in Desolation (desolation_of_salt) on 2016-08-26 10:42:35, with 231949 points after 34532 turns and 2:31:36. 01:58:44 headshot 01:58:51 that was the guy who bounced around the map for 200 turns 01:58:59 quite the tv 01:59:07 200 turns = underestimate probably 01:59:35 oh pf, in the screenshot you sent the salt clouds seems reasonably noticeable? 01:59:49 they looked better in the screenshot than in-game, or maybe my eyes just needed to adjust 01:59:51 idk 01:59:58 whas this screenshot? 02:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:23 http://i.imgur.com/vR1d5aM.png 02:00:36 could just brighten the salt clouds 02:00:45 right now they're using 'white smoke' 02:00:48 iirc 02:01:04 probably doable, i'd have to figure out how 02:01:21 did the weight thing end up working for ridge tiles? 02:01:45 finally, the dream is real 02:01:50 I am static discharging elf with ocpa 02:01:53 CanOfWorms, looking at that screenshot, the tiles seem too regular right now 02:02:20 well there's only 3/1 of them right now :v 02:02:28 I gave pf the bare minimum to test out 02:02:28 static discharging elf? 02:02:58 a 'blank' tile with salt-sand color would work, along with some rotations of tile-1 and tile-3 (tile-2 being ridge tile iirc) 02:02:59 I have a teae that found ocpa at xl8 02:03:35 CanOfWorms: nice! 02:03:45 wrt getting anything castable in that :) 02:03:53 Brannock: i can't really tell, tbh? maybe? 02:04:37 that little birdie went from 8 str to 22 :v 02:04:40 !!! 02:04:46 did you go j after all 02:04:53 no 02:04:57 take it easy , 02:04:58 just found a lot of +str items 02:05:10 +6 ring and +2 gloves 02:05:20 one of my concerns with desolation right now is that it doesn't have an 'end' - you wander around, you explore some ruins, but there's no 'climax', no conclusion. 02:05:36 yeah it has 3 vaults that are about evenly sized 02:05:38 i originally had endings, but they didn't take advantage of the branch really at all - they were just elf ripoffs 02:05:54 might need to make it start > branch into two medium vaults > big end vault 02:06:03 mb 02:06:18 I mentioned a "ruined_temple" earlier but I think I was unclear and seemed to reference an earlier lair vault. But the flavor of Salt just screams "there is a desecrated temple to '2' here" to me 02:06:29 i like the concept of wandering around a big desolation aimlessly but that is sort of inherently at odds with directionality 02:06:36 Brannock: yeah i'll pull up my old endings for you, hold on 02:06:42 ooh! 02:07:23 http://sprunge.us/GfgW ctrl-f 'endings' 02:07:38 cave temple, fortress temple, weird temple 02:08:53 that's the original reason for the rock bit that you currently start in - that's where the ending was 02:09:10 i sort of wanted to have a solid 'beginning' to make up for not having an 'ending' in some sense, but i thin kthat was misguided 02:09:50 do a classic egypt hidden tomb thing 02:10:10 "As you step on the pressure plate, you hear the deep rumbling of something rising out of the ground!!!" 02:10:15 two levels may help with that... on the other hand it may encourage old V:$/Tomb:$ dancing 02:10:59 CanOfWorms: ? 02:11:09 how come these vaults ahve no_rotate? 02:11:41 so they end up placing within the subvault slot 02:11:48 the entire vault rotates eventually 02:11:59 the entire level 02:12:01 I see 02:12:59 -!- DrKe has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:14:55 pf: the classic "pyramid rises from beneath the ground" trope 02:15:11 complex 02:15:21 kind of like that stair-grate thing 02:15:55 those are really sketchy - there are known bugs involving monsters getting caught in that sort of terrain 02:16:12 ah 02:16:24 -!- destroythecore has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:16:26 the volcano with collapsing ceilings is the worst offender 02:16:34 -!- sgun_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:16:49 you step on a grate that releases a statue that fires an arrow onto a trap that spawns a toenail golem that walks into a mutagenic cloud that turns into... 02:17:54 mmmm 02:17:59 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 02:18:06 a boulder beetle, clearly 02:18:16 obv 02:19:31 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 48.0.1/20160817112116]] 02:20:47 speaking of boulder beetles 02:20:53 -!- Nomi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:21:00 what is the vault where stepping on the pressure plate releases a bunch 02:21:05 i think i saw it in lair 02:21:35 yeah 02:21:47 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 02:22:21 there's two of them iirc? 02:22:36 one is an open square with an item in the center on top of a plate 02:22:41 the other one is a narrow corridor 02:22:42 there's the big one that nikheizen mention that releases multiple 02:22:45 and yeah that one 02:23:34 i thought it was very cute. happy to see it 02:24:05 cute?!?! are you saying this is all a game, nikheizen 02:26:17 protect ya neck! 02:26:48 hrmm 02:27:18 friggin deep elf blademaster and its potion of resistance 02:28:55 -!- Cimanyd has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:30:48 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:31:29 You have OCPA. How can you die 02:31:57 I'm not dead 02:32:14 I'm just annoyed that the blademaster ruined my STATIC DISCHARGE STRATS with a friggin potion 02:32:33 also I could have used that potion, maybe 02:32:33 but you can melee them 02:32:37 with a weapon 02:33:01 ...or can you? 02:33:28 I can 02:34:30 gammafunk: prepare for the release of my groundbreaking fork dungeon crawl stone soup cute anime 02:34:38 ! 02:34:53 if people request its soundtrack in my stream, I will be *very* upset 02:35:02 strict no anime rule. 02:36:28 when all the devs move over to cute anime you will have nothing else to stream 02:38:52 I'll just have to play trolls and tribulations from then on 02:39:24 ? 02:40:26 nice, this large shield I found has such a high str bonus it offsets the shield spellcasting penalties 02:50:31 gammafunk 02:50:35 this is how you play gnollcrawl 02:50:36 You sock the gnoll! Your body is wracked with pain! The gnoll convulses! x50 02:50:54 I don't think I'm the target audience 02:51:06 you should tell dracunos though 02:51:13 lies 02:51:19 gnollcrawl might as well be called gammacrawl 02:51:36 gammacrawl would not basically resemble gnoll crawl 02:51:39 in no way 02:52:13 now it might be koboldinacrawl 02:52:13 I could believe that! 02:52:21 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.19-a0-1260-gc94d3f7 02:52:40 s/in no way/in any way/ and the sentence before that was also weird 02:52:48 I blame irssi 02:55:00 honestly 02:55:06 I think gnollcrawl would probably best be described as zxccrawl 02:55:18 he's the one who loves evading d:1 gnolls 02:57:42 I think zxc has played it some 02:57:44 I'm waiting for a fork that has an idea I like, maybe one will come! 02:57:51 koboldinacrawl would be like... a version of crawl where there's a level 1 fire spell that is a copy of immolation scroll 02:59:14 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 03:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:03:29 koboldina zxccrawl would not have gnolls 03:04:10 what would it have 03:04:19 btw apparently getting angry and making your own version of crawl is in vogue 03:04:28 who was the guy that was angry the other day about walking face first into hellion island and dying 03:04:39 then declared he'd only play his special version with no torment or damnation from now on 03:06:58 koboldina: Doesn't everyone love evading d:1 gnolls 03:07:16 I mean if you're trying to win and aren't playing mibe or something! 03:07:32 even mibe succumbs to the dreaded d:1 venom halberd gnoll 03:08:04 if you forget about aa maybe 03:08:44 well I mean 03:08:51 unless you have a spear yourself, you're still risking getting hit 03:08:58 use terrain 03:09:09 not always possible 03:09:16 also you should've chosen polearms yourself 03:09:31 probably yes 03:09:43 altho I mean, I thought the most optimal d:1 choice was longswords for damage 03:09:52 polearms are definitely better 03:10:03 I think it's between polearms and axes 03:10:14 axes are nice because berserk only lasts so long 03:10:28 polearms because you get more hits in while you are zerking, so many more 03:10:31 well riposte turns longswords into mini-axes 03:10:35 before they can hit you 03:14:14 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.19-a0-1260-gc94d3f7 (34) 03:18:29 you 100% want polearm 03:18:44 so that you can kite and safely kill gnolls without polearm 03:18:59 thus not having to use berserk/wand/god power on them 03:21:09 using axes because "berserk only lasts so long" sounds... extremely risky in gnollcrawl 03:21:33 just play centaur or spriggan instead so you can walk away after berserk and kite til you can berserk again 03:21:35 I was talking regular crawl 03:21:41 in gnoll crawl yes polearms all the way 03:22:10 possibly polearms all the way in regular crawl too 03:23:15 probably tbh. I mean, gnollcrawl normal d1 scenario is basically normal "worst case" scenario 03:25:05 -!- DrKe has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:28:16 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 03:30:35 -!- rossi_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5] 03:30:43 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:32:34 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:32:39 -!- eb_ is now known as eb 03:34:02 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:40:30 -!- Idolo has quit [] 03:40:34 -!- eb has quit [] 03:51:38 -!- jeefus has joined ##crawl-dev 03:53:15 -!- PElf has joined ##crawl-dev 03:55:04 -!- jefus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:52 -!- Siegurt has joined ##crawl-dev 04:07:59 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 04:16:34 -!- bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:16:44 zxc: You mean polearms are better for D:1, or in general? (Regular crawl) 04:17:03 both 04:19:05 I always feel so sad about the amount of xp I need to get more than 15 base damage with either polearms or axes 04:19:11 Free attacks: good 04:19:15 Not an issue for a trog worshipper of course 04:19:53 I'm going to start making a rule at the beginning of any weapon strength discussion 04:19:56 You may not bring up the subject of ziggurats 04:20:13 That will shut down a lot of the weirder digressions right away I hope! 04:20:42 Hah, I think that's a good rule for just about any discussion 04:21:02 "Yes but what about when you have all level 9 spells" 04:21:03 Yeah it is, but it's so hard to universally enforce 04:30:51 lol 04:31:13 sounds legit 04:31:51 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 04:33:29 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:48:20 -!- dtsund has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:03:43 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:11:24 -!- scummos| has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:12:56 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:13:23 -!- Patashu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:13:42 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 05:18:47 -!- kmz8160 has quit [Client Quit] 05:19:32 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 05:28:12 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:31:38 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:53:16 -!- PElf has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)] 06:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:03:09 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 06:35:38 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 06:43:39 -!- aditya has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:46:39 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:52:17 -!- TuxQmob has quit [Changing host] 06:55:14 -!- TuxQmoob has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:57:03 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 06:58:56 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:01:41 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 07:06:16 -!- Kenran has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:33:41 -!- dpeg_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:36:39 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:37:51 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:39:52 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 07:45:48 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 07:48:09 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:49:21 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 07:52:39 -!- Rast-- has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:55:15 -!- Guest_84743 has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 08:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:41 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 08:08:43 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 08:12:55 "The 08:12:55 strength of the dust effect depends on how many dream sheep are 08:12:55 visible to the player." 08:13:05 so we finally added starcursed sheepspawn? :P 08:13:39 ah, sheepcursed mass] 08:24:14 -!- read has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:37:28 fr nightmare sheep shriek in your dreams 08:39:26 o_0 08:39:26 bh_: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 08:40:21 -!- bh_ has quit [Changing host] 08:40:21 -!- bh_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:40:24 -!- bh_ is now known as bh 08:41:28 why do snails and sheep have huge melee, anyway 08:41:41 torpor snail (03w) | Spd: 7 | HD: 10 | HP: 48-70 | AC/EV: 8/1 | Dam: 25 | amphibious | Res: 06magic(40), 12drown | XP: 424 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 08:41:41 %?torpor snail 08:41:44 hill giant (04C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 11 | HP: 49-71 | AC/EV: 3/4 | Dam: 30 | 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(40), 12drown | XP: 652 | Sz: Giant | Int: human. 08:41:44 %?hill giant 08:41:47 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:41:54 (sheep have 30 now???) 08:57:15 dream sheep (10Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 18-26 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Dam: 13 | Res: 06magic(30) | XP: 256 | Sp: sleep [06!sil, 04emergency] | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 08:57:15 <|amethyst> %??dream sheep 09:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:21 oops, misread the mon-data 09:02:08 <|amethyst> and re snails vs hill giants, keep in mind the snails don't use weapons 09:06:57 !tell pleasingfungus not starting out in cover sounds like an improvement, since otherwise you'd pretty much always want to rely on the real cover over the clouds 09:06:58 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 09:09:13 !tell pleasingfungus i haven't played it outside of wizmode yet, so my main concern other than the reliable cover was just the very slow performance rather than 09:09:14 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 09:09:41 !tell pleasingfungus (oops, hit enter early) - rather than the clouds themselves necessarily being a big problem in terms of gameplay, would have to try it in a real game and see 09:09:42 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 09:19:05 -!- Guest_84743 has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 09:31:03 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:41:13 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 09:41:18 !seen Lasty 09:41:19 dpeg: You have 6 messages. Use !messages to read them. 09:41:19 I last saw Lasty at Sun Aug 28 12:41:48 2016 UTC (59m 31s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: Leaving.'. 09:48:45 -!- Dalwyn has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:49:27 -!- woodjrx_ is now known as woodjrx 09:53:43 -!- MPR has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:54 * bh prods dpeg 10:02:02 <|amethyst> !tell PleasingFungus profiled resting for ~1600 turns in Deso: 52.04% invalidate_los_around, 9.83% env.cloud.find(), 9.06% cloud_name_to_type, 3.7% dgn_random_walk, 3.32% PcRNG::get_uint32(), 2.19% random2(), 1.89% cloud_type_name 10:02:03 |amethyst: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 10:05:12 <|amethyst> err 10:05:12 <|amethyst> looking at invalidate_los_around now 10:05:29 <|amethyst> didn't we have a bug report involving bad opacity calculations? I see a pretty big problem here 10:05:33 <|amethyst> int x1 = max(p.x - LOS_MAX_RANGE, 0); 10:05:34 <|amethyst> int y1 = max(p.y - LOS_MAX_RANGE, 0); 10:05:34 <|amethyst> int x2 = min(p.x, GXM - 1); 10:05:34 <|amethyst> int y2 = min(p.y + LOS_MAX_RANGE, GYM - 1); 10:05:37 <|amethyst> what's missing? 10:06:34 bh: Cheers! 10:08:19 -!- zxc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:10:51 <|amethyst> ah, that's because it's a half-LOS 10:11:24 dpeg: people want YABOD. Are you going to revise it? :D 10:17:49 why does apportation still have 1000 spellpower 10:18:00 it had such spellpower solely because it checked for AUM 10:18:51 max spellpower right now would be 17.5 for max distance apports 10:19:00 since the formula was power*2/5 10:19:09 i mean is 10:19:46 -!- Implojin has joined ##crawl-dev 10:24:33 -!- InvisiblePanda has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:29:26 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:07 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 10:47:50 -!- maxtm has quit [Quit: maxtm] 10:49:09 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 10:54:38 i don't remember any bad opacity bugs recently 10:54:39 there is an oustanding one with areas caching, but not los that i can remember 10:57:46 <|amethyst> yeah 10:57:48 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:57:54 <|amethyst> I realised it's not actually a bug 11:00:08 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:14 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:11:12 <|amethyst> !tell PleasingFungus 420a265 reduces that to about 45% invalidate_los_around 11:11:21 03|amethyst02 07* 0.19-a0-1261-g420a265: Remove an unnecessary check in invalidate_los_around. 10(22 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/420a265f0fa1 11:11:42 |amethyst: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 11:11:42 <|amethyst> hm, is chei not getting poked? 11:12:55 it takes a few minutes for it to update 11:13:00 chei, that is 11:14:49 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:17:11 -!- kdrnic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:18:12 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 11:25:12 -!- chan20 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:28:11 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:28:54 |amethyst: tyvm for fixes! one thing we could do, maybe, is make clouds timing out at end of turn specifically not call that function, and then do some kind of mass LOS update at the end of the cloud-timeout check? 11:28:54 fix/profiling/w/e 11:28:54 PleasingFungus: You have 5 messages. Use !messages to read them. 11:29:22 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: Yes, that would be a huge improvement 11:30:22 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: or even if we kept a bitmap for what needs to be invalidated, then zeroed out the relevant globallos entries later 11:30:23 ah, might be cloud creation too, thinking about it 11:30:41 _los_cloud_changed() seem to be the relevant call 11:31:03 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: yeah, every time an opaque cloud is created, deleted, moved, or swapped 11:31:16 former two are probably the only cases we need to worry about optimizing 11:31:24 creating might be harder, since it lurks in the dark belly of lua 11:31:26 -!- Kenran has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:31:33 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:32:37 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 11:36:00 i'm gonna be out most of today and am currently sleep deprived, so idk if i'll be able to do anything before tomorrow 11:39:13 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 11:49:39 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 11:58:05 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:06 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:08:58 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.19-a0-1261-g420a265 (34) 12:14:30 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:17:38 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:23:08 -!- Kranix has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:34:20 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 12:42:27 -!- frd has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:42:41 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 13:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:01:37 MarvinPA: tomb thought: since death scarabs no longer have miasma, maybe ushabti clouds should be miasma instead of negative energy? 13:01:37 the pure negative energy clouds don't seem to do that much. 13:08:35 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.19-a0-1261-g420a265 (34) 13:08:43 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:09:36 hmm possibly, ushabti used to have both and got changed to just negative energy since at the time death scarabs had miasma covered 13:10:07 i mean really the rest of tomb still has both plain draining as well as all of miasma's side effects in abundance 13:11:14 -!- dalwyn has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:12:00 so i'm not very sure of the merits of ushabti generally 13:13:23 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:15:22 i think they probably do more with miasma, at least 13:16:51 probably, yeah 13:19:48 ushabti advantages: 13:20:00 - an enemy that's thematic to tomb but not undead 13:20:07 - line clouds (unusual) 13:21:30