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00:30:07 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.19-a0-1068-g99dd0f4 (34)
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03:23:24 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.19-a0-1068-g99dd0f4 (34)
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13:28:09 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.19-a0-1068-g99dd0f4 (34)
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16:08:24 <amalloy> i just heard a player include Gell's in a list of badass spells
16:09:36 <amalloy> "also fulminant prism+inner flame+gravitas is glorious. I've destroyed two yak packs an elephant pack two hydra and other assorted lair critters leading them through a bush vault which I've transformed into a bush fire"
16:09:58 <kryft> Good techs
16:10:33 <amalloy> actually all three of those are spells players generally have a low opinion of
16:15:31 <minmay> tavern, reddit, and SA specialize in thinking useless spells are good
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16:15:40 <minmay> see: necromutation
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16:17:22 <amalloy> "I'm playing arcane marksman right now as a challenge but with gravitas in their book they're actually really good now if you can get past early D"
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16:17:39 <amalloy> minmay: i've discovered a new source of playertalk: discord
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16:24:01 <amalloy> even that player thinks leda's is bad tho
16:24:21 <Prozacelf> i've never really found a great use for it
16:25:20 <Prozacelf> it's probably legit on AM if you go that route
16:25:31 <Prozacelf> but i have trouble of thinking of too many other situations where it's applicable
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16:30:53 <minmay> leda's was good back when it was haste
16:31:08 <minmay> now it doesn't really do anything
16:32:18 <Prozacelf> yeah, it's been a long time since i saw anyone advocating its use
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17:26:41 <biggie> What's the maximum amount of time a level can take to be generated? Also, does crawl allow use of code liscenced
17:26:50 <biggie> under the MIT liscense?
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17:29:17 <geekosaur> worley.cc appears to be 3-clause BSD. also GPL is generally compatible with BSD and MIT (but not the other way around; that is, you can use BSD/MIT in a primarily GPL project, but GPL code in a BSD/MIT project effectively changes the project license to GPL)
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17:31:03 <biggie> geekosaur: I was thinking the same thing too, but I wanted to be 100% sure.
17:32:19 <geekosaur> (oversimplifying massively)
17:34:28 <gammafunk> biggie: there's not a time limit, but there is an iteration limit
17:34:55 <gammafunk> as in it will try to make a level only so many times before giving up (with a crash)
17:35:25 <gammafunk> in practice online you can see delays of over 5 seconds for level gen, but of course it varies by server and server load
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17:36:25 <biggie> gammafunk: Are levels in pan generated as you go?
17:36:35 <gammafunk> biggie: all levels are generated as you enter
17:36:38 <gammafunk> including pan
17:37:16 <gammafunk> some information about specific levels is chosen at game start, but generally the level is generated when you enter it the first time
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17:42:02 <biggie> gammafunk: One last question. Which branch do you think is in most need of additional variety in dungeon layout?
17:42:44 <gammafunk> well, you probably have specific ideas in minds in terms of what you want to make as a layout
17:43:27 <gammafunk> many branches use quite a wide set of layouts, some relatively small sets (slime, orc, tomb)
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17:43:50 <gammafunk> what kind of layout project are you hoping to do?
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17:44:54 <gammafunk> tomb uses subvaulted maps in in fixed level designs (different each floor); it could certainly use more variety, but you may not want to work on somethign like that
17:45:22 <gammafunk> orc does use layouts, but they're all cave-like; it's a reasonable target for layout variety, but you probably want to stay within the theme of the level
17:46:05 <gammafunk> slime uses I think only one layout, but the branch is based on the idea of "dive it fast to avoid nasty monsters, avoid acid walls" for the player
17:47:14 <gammafunk> hells use some specific layouts related to the theme of the level (cocytus has a kind of 'floating ice sheet' layout, among others, dis has a city-like grid)
17:47:56 <gammafunk> hells are meant to be dived quickly, so layouts that can impede this in a non-tedious way would be what we want there (while still being thematic)
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17:48:53 <gammafunk> for most other branches the layouts are pretty general, and there's no huge need for more variety, but any new layout that can be reused in these branches is always good if the layout is good
17:53:31 <biggie> Vary up Pan level generation. Specifically, trying to procedurally generate infiniplex's handmade vaults.
17:55:47 <Brannock> most orc:1 layouts I've seen are blobby and somewhat "open" rather than mining-vein-like. I think orc could use some improvement, or at least variety.
17:56:49 <biggie> gammafunk: Also, procedurally generate holy pan instead relying upon the single vault.
17:56:51 <|amethyst> I would be wary of adding orc layouts that aren't open, since that dramatically changes the playfeel of the levels
17:57:17 <|amethyst> not to say "mining veins" are bad, but IMO they shouldn't be e.g. 1 or 2 tiles wide
17:57:31 <gammafunk> biggie: well, that's certainly possible, another way we do that is through the tomb approach
17:57:37 <Brannock> I agree, I was envisioning something 4 to 5 tiles wide, to keep with the orc swarm
17:57:38 <gammafunk> some fixed layout portions with subvaults
17:57:52 <Brannock> but kind of strand-like reaches into the cavern instead of open-pit-mining
17:57:55 <gammafunk> or just a set of endvault maps, like for crypt and other branch ends
17:57:58 <gammafunk> as float maps
17:58:09 <gammafunk> but yeah holy pan is indeed a fixed encompass, and you could make it a nice layout
17:58:15 <PleasingFungus> we actually do have a layout that's pretty mining-vein-like, just not used in orc
17:58:17 <|amethyst> Brannock:  maybe something based on layout_delve ?
17:58:19 <PleasingFungus> it's a rare d layout these days
17:58:26 <Brannock> yes, that one
17:58:27 <PleasingFungus> i think that's probably what it's called
17:58:45 <PleasingFungus> possibly you could do something about splitting up the level into more parts, to be properly orc-y
17:58:56 <|amethyst> layout_twisted_cavern I think
17:59:22 <|amethyst> it's one specific variant of delve
17:59:40 <|amethyst> layout_delve itself is the spider layout
18:00:02 <|amethyst> !source layout_twisted_cavern
18:00:02 <Sequell> 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/builder/layout_delve.des#L18
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18:00:23 <|amethyst> looks like it has been disabled?  (WEIGHT: 0)
18:00:44 <PleasingFungus> oh, heh, very rare indeed
18:00:53 <|amethyst> s/is the spider layout/used to be the spider layout, now called layout_spider_delve/
18:01:30 <|amethyst> so, subvaulted layouts for all branch ends?
18:01:45 <|amethyst> good idea?  bad?  too hard?
18:02:01 <|amethyst> s/layouts/layouts or vaults/
18:02:30 <|amethyst> the idea being, as suggested in tavern, to make learning the endings less useful
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18:03:42 <gammafunk> I'd say it falls into too hard
18:03:42 <PleasingFungus> i don't think that's particularly critical, urgent, or limited to branch endings (as opposed to other large vaults)
18:03:52 <PleasingFungus> a nice project to do on a per vault-basis, maybe
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18:04:24 <wheals> amalloy: is there a DCSS discord server
18:05:44 <minmay> would that actually make learning the endings less useful?
18:06:25 <amalloy> wheals: there's a roguelikes server with a dcss channel
18:06:42 <amalloy> https://discordapp.com/channels/205277826788622337/205316046230388737
18:09:16 <amalloy> i was thinking of making wait/rest while inside a net/web automatically struggle to escape, since that seems strictly better than passing a turn and there's no reason to punish players for forgetting to do it. is there any reason that's a bad idea?
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18:10:08 <|amethyst> amalloy:  not a reason it's a bad idea, but the searing ray interaction would need to be clarified
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18:10:52 <|amethyst> e.g. I think it would be bad if move-to-struggle ended searing ray but wait-to-struggle did not
18:11:04 <amalloy> ah, indeed. maybe just make 5 struggle, and leave . alone? i jsut feel dumb when i'm like "great, the enemies are gone, let's rest", and then suddenly there are enemies and i'm still in a web like an idiot
18:11:37 <|amethyst> hm, maybe
18:11:55 <|amethyst> making 5 struggle would need clarification of the interaction with auto-eat
18:12:00 <amalloy> wow, TIL higher Str makes you better at getting out of nets
18:12:08 <amalloy> or webs, rather
18:12:14 <amalloy> FR remove that weirdass interaction
18:12:16 <|amethyst> e.g. if you're both hungry and webbed, does 5 eat first or struggle first?
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18:12:25 <|amethyst> and does that change if you're at Starving?
18:13:29 <PleasingFungus> what if you're barbed
18:13:59 <|amethyst> oh, never mind re Starving
18:14:06 <PleasingFungus> that one's magic iirc
18:14:15 <PleasingFungus> not related to 5
18:14:19 <|amethyst> "You're too hungry to rest." even if you have food in inventory
18:14:20 <PleasingFungus> if it's what i'm thinking of
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18:15:25 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.19-a0-1068-g99dd0f4 (34)
18:16:06 <amalloy> hah. if you get your Str to -40 or lower, it becomes impossible to escape webs
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18:16:26 <gammafunk> I assum you can still teleport/blink?
18:16:34 <amalloy> well tele probly
18:16:57 <amalloy> blink i'm not sure
18:17:06 <|amethyst> amalloy:  doesn't it use strength() ?
18:17:25 <amalloy> no, you.stat(STAT_STR)
18:17:39 <|amethyst> oh, I'm looking at constriction
18:17:47 <|amethyst> IMO that should be strength()
18:18:11 <gammafunk> please let there be a dex()
18:18:13 <gammafunk> !source dex
18:18:14 <Sequell> 1/3. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/hiscores.h#L100
18:18:26 <|amethyst> very consistent naming
18:18:30 <|amethyst> strength, intel, dex
18:18:45 <gammafunk> !source dexterity
18:18:46 <Sequell> Can't find dexterity.
18:18:49 <gammafunk> rip
18:18:54 <amalloy> |amethyst: i'd rather just remove the str correlation than change it to use strength()
18:19:12 <|amethyst> amalloy:  hm
18:19:21 <|amethyst> amalloy:  I'd kind of rather merge it with constriction somehow
18:19:25 <|amethyst> amalloy:  but that would work too
18:19:42 <amalloy> or at least merge it with nets
18:19:53 <amalloy> which have a completely different escape mechanic from webs
18:21:03 <|amethyst> I guess it might need to be parameterised a bit so the two (or three) things could be balanced separately
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19:11:44 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/316 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/316
19:11:45 <Cheibriados> 03larry-he02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/316 * 0.19-a0-1069-g4b319e1: Remove reference to cTele 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4b319e18ecc8
19:12:54 <Cheibriados> 03larry-he02 07* 0.19-a0-1069-g4b319e1: Remove reference to cTele 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4b319e18ecc8
19:12:54 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 {GitHub} 07* 0.19-a0-1070-gcf38973: Merge pull request #316 from larry-he/master 10(6 seconds ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cf389738d734
19:12:59 <PleasingFungus> heh
19:13:47 <|amethyst> btw, messaging bug report:
19:13:49 <|amethyst> _Something appears at your feet! Found a stone staircase leading down.
19:13:59 <|amethyst> on getting a god gift
19:14:15 <|amethyst> pretty sure that "Found a stone staircase..." was supposed to be showing me the item instead
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19:17:38 <amalloy> |amethyst: it doesn't normally tell you the item
19:17:49 <amalloy> you just happened to get a gift and find a stair at the same time, so there was an additional message
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19:23:19 <PleasingFungus> good gift imo
19:23:22 <PleasingFungus> the gift of stairs
19:23:26 <PleasingFungus> sounds like a xom thing
19:23:35 <PleasingFungus> or lucy, i suppose
19:30:56 <amalloy> the Ds damnation mut gives you an ability named Damnation - shouldn't it be Hurl Damnation, to be clear it's not smite-targeted?
19:31:25 <PleasingFungus> reaasonable
19:31:35 <PleasingFungus> finally, an ability that gives me the ability to hurl
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19:35:03 <geekosaur> fr motion sickness mutation, applicable to *tele and xom tele roulette >.>
19:35:51 <PleasingFungus> new splatter types?
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19:50:48 <Cheibriados> 03amalloy02 07* 0.19-a0-1071-g4ed3155: Rename Ds 'Damnation' ability to 'Hurl Damnation' 10(15 minutes ago, 3 files, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4ed3155f6cfd
19:59:19 <nikheizen> PleasingFungus: Damn you!!!
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20:01:33 <PleasingFungus> man, why me.
20:04:33 <gammafunk> there's still time to rename it to Tarnation
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20:07:09 <travis-ci> The build has errored. (master - cf38973 #6260 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/149903269
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20:09:00 <Jorgrell> Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.19-a0-1071-g4ed3155 (34)
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20:13:00 <nikheizen> gammafunk: Think of the oblique Dwarf Fort reference cred....
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20:16:30 <PleasingFungus> new spiny toad unique
20:16:35 <PleasingFungus> spiny frog? we have a toad, right?
20:17:25 <nikheizen> No no, Tarnation.
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20:17:36 <nikheizen> Would also probably please chequers!
20:17:37 <PleasingFungus> yeah i know
20:17:44 <PleasingFungus> i was going for a toady one ref
20:17:47 <PleasingFungus> but apparently we don't have any toads.
20:18:16 <nikheizen> Time to bring back mislead
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20:24:31 <gammafunk> ?/toad
20:24:32 <Sequell> Matching terms (1): toadstool; entries (14): cleansing_flame[3] | dieselteamideas[14] | djanatyn[4] | djanatyn[5] | fedhas[1] | fedhas_reasons[8] | optimal[6] | scythe_of_curses[2] | snow[2] | snow[6] | that_other_game[11] | toadstool[1] | toadstool[2] | todo_monsters[7]
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20:24:42 <gammafunk> ??todo_monsters[7
20:24:42 <Sequell> todo monsters[7/17]: chameleons, assassin bugs, transdimensional hellspiders, hypnotoads, time flies, helllions
20:25:48 <gammafunk> rework chaos butterflies as hypnotoads
20:26:03 <ontoclasm> what up ladies and gents
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20:30:08 <PleasingFungus> some hype development
20:30:10 <PleasingFungus> lemme tell ya
20:33:09 <ontoclasm> sick coding fam
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20:37:21 <chequers> df is over nikheizen
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20:37:24 <chequers> rimworld where it at
20:37:34 <PleasingFungus> 🔥🔥🔥
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21:50:42 <amalloy> stealth is reduced by high-ER armour, right? does that mean the Ds Sturdy Frame increases your stealth a bit?
21:54:48 <PleasingFungus> probably
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22:56:07 <Brannock> why is it 'Hell Sentinel' and not 'Hell sentinel'?
22:56:54 <Brannock> I suppose the other fiends have the second word capitalized as well
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23:00:55 <chequers> amalloy: heh good catch
23:01:20 <amalloy> hm<
23:02:15 <chequers> wacky suggestion for spell fail rate + ER: instead of modifying spell fail rate with ER, use ER to cap the maximum spell level you can cast
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23:25:24 <miek_> like the opposite of how it works now
23:25:39 <miek_> oh.. spell level.. not spell power
23:26:05 <miek_> the problem is that it just means you'll chuck on plate armour early game until you learn better spells and then chuck on chain mail etc..
23:26:20 <Kramin> yeah... I think current systam is better
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23:59:25 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.19-a0-1071-g4ed3155 (34)