00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:08 can spellforged servitor cast iood 00:00:16 -!- Dix has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:00:28 -!- Pekkekke has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:04:32 gammafunk: feature request for asterion's greater servant: small chance the demon is generated friendly to the player 00:04:42 or perhaps neutral 00:05:47 pretty sure it can cast iood 00:06:40 -!- wobwob has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:09:18 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.19-a0-675-gf8984cf (34) 00:14:54 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:17:30 chequers: just find asterion and die to him 00:17:36 that's being friendly to the player gammafunk 00:18:16 yeah servitor will cast ood 00:18:21 that's a frequent combo people go for 00:18:51 -!- SaintWacko has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:21:45 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 00:21:46 The build passed. (master - 9f24bd5 #5914 : Shmuale Mark): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/137974105 00:21:46 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 00:22:22 -!- Demise has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:22:49 -!- Demise_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:23:27 -!- VoxSomniator has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:26:02 for layout_geoelf_castle, I'm trying to better understand how it picks the location to place the primary vault. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/builder/layout_geoelf_castle.des 00:26:56 is it just making everything, except an area the exact dimensions of the primary vault, non-overwritable? therefore implicitly defining the ONLY place the primary vault can be placed? something tells me that's not quite right 00:27:33 -!- Amphouse has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:29:54 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:30:00 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.19-a0-675-gf8984cf (34) 00:30:44 -!- valrus has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:33:30 <|amethyst> primary vault means it comes before the layout 00:34:45 <|amethyst> so, rather, the layout is placing things around the primary vault, which is already there 00:34:52 -!- Taraiph has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:36:37 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:37:07 !log 00:37:09 3926. Lightli, XL13 DEEE, T:21191: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/Lightli/morgue-Lightli-20160616-043320.txt 00:37:23 -!- JimmahDean has quit [] 00:40:56 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:41:10 random question 00:41:14 -!- Dix has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:41:26 where in the code is spell noise defined 00:43:18 |amethyst: oh. interesting. so is there a way to force a primary vault to appear in a particular location on a layout? or is this precisely why layout_geoelf_castle has so many variants? ie it's impossible to force the primary vault to a certain location (i.e. into the specific subvault I want it to appear in) 00:43:57 -!- Demise_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:46:56 Lightli: mostly spl-data 00:47:13 though explosions and lightning and a few other things are special cased 00:47:37 hm, maybe only lightning wands (not the lightning bolt spell) are special cased? i forget 00:48:52 -!- Watball has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:03 -!- shuangxi has quit [Client Quit] 00:51:25 !seen ontoclasm 00:51:26 I last saw ontoclasm at Wed Jun 15 23:00:05 2016 UTC (5h 51m 19s ago) saying 'just don't have any subfolders' on ##crawl-dev. 00:55:05 -!- Rust3dCor3 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:56:30 -!- mong has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:18 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 01:02:19 The build passed. (master - f8984cf #5915 : Shmuale Mark): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/137977129 01:02:19 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 01:02:40 I was trying to find the noise for LRD 01:03:07 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:04:05 25 01:04:19 that's in zap data I think? 01:04:26 or is that just the casting noise 01:04:33 (i don't actually know if it's 25 but i'm lazy and it's close) 01:04:34 I always forget how those work 01:04:39 just the casting noise 01:04:41 right 01:05:00 okay it's noise 15 01:05:02 for the explosion 01:05:11 so explosions themselves have noise that's made at the location of explosion 01:05:11 the casting noise is 4 01:05:12 ??lrd 01:05:13 lrd[1/4]: Lee's Rapid Deconstruction: Turns walls into explosions. Useful for removing inconvenient stone or green crystal walls, though one needs fairly high power to pierce stone, and even higher to pierce metal (see {lrd[4]}). Causes lots of undodgeable damage to anything foolish enough to be near the wall (but AC is applied thrice). 01:05:26 unless it's green crystal 01:05:28 then it's 20 01:06:46 oh it's actually 20 for stone too 01:07:09 also it makes the noise again on every monster it hits 01:07:13 but not on every player it hits 01:07:20 because ??? 01:07:38 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 01:08:04 minmay: so explosion noise for metal is 15? 01:08:14 wrt lrd 01:08:40 -!- Jafet has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:13:52 what's lightning bolt 01:13:54 25? 01:14:45 PleasingFungus: hi 01:14:52 players are revolting! 01:14:58 uh 01:15:06 ??revolting 01:15:07 I don't have a page labeled revolting in my learndb. 01:15:14 i mean, i know they are, but 01:15:15 and, also, saying that the phantom tile causes them physical pain 01:15:30 :/ 01:15:53 i'm a little confused about why you smeared it all over the place, myself 01:16:04 not that i was super hot on the old tile 01:16:08 * ontoclasm shrugs 01:16:13 i'm lazy 01:16:18 i guess i'll try something else 01:16:19 lol 01:16:23 mind if i revert it, then? 01:16:35 don't worry it's "players" who were revolting 01:16:37 well the old one was ugh too 01:16:46 minmay: what is your opinion on what skills a reworked monk starts with 01:17:20 give me a bit, i'll make a better one 01:17:30 too late! 01:17:37 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.19-a0-676-g281ae47: Revert "Phantom tile edit" 10(35 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/281ae4790423 01:17:43 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:18:20 well okay then 01:18:36 :p 01:18:41 he was asking rhetoricall y 01:18:42 you can stick your new tile on top of that. 01:18:49 just pile them to the sky 01:18:51 phantoms everywhere 01:18:57 floating around. no one knows where they're going 01:19:03 the search for a non-shitty phantom tile is a goddamn saga 01:19:06 lol 01:19:10 there's a mantis issue with like 01:19:13 30 of them 01:19:24 i am fond of police chalk outline 01:19:39 it reminds me nobody is perfect 01:21:35 i mean, i'm okay with the basic concept, but the pixelwork is 01:21:39 not exceptional 01:21:43 wavin those arms around 01:21:43 chequers: unarmed combat, fighting, dodging 01:21:45 like it just don't care 01:21:57 what does monk start with now? 01:22:00 minmay: dodging? just to help early survivability? 01:22:06 is this another stealth skill thing 01:22:08 uc, dodging, stealth 01:22:17 nah it's a "why are they uc" 01:22:19 chequers: because everything starts with either armour or dodging for some reason 01:22:27 chequers: I read it as "why do they have the piety thing" 01:22:30 monk is such a weird background 01:22:49 New branch created: pull/297 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/297 01:22:49 03chequers02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/297 * 0.19-a0-644-gd8d7433: Simplify (and buff) Pan lord spells. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 22+ 25-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d8d74336b333 01:22:52 to me monk is "free piety" as its core gimmick 01:22:52 the piety thing *is* monk - without that they're just a shitty gladiator or fighter 01:22:53 yeah 01:23:08 so I just want to make them like a bad-fighter with the piety gimmick, I guess 01:23:16 generic zealot 01:23:19 store-brand zealot 01:23:27 :) 01:23:40 i'm fine with that 01:23:48 then we can remove dgmo 01:23:52 %git dedgmo 01:23:52 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.17-a0-75-g5584f9f: Ban DgMo 10(1 year, 3 months ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5584f9f7da59 01:24:24 too bad not every god uses invo, could start them with some of that skill 01:24:40 that's not a great idea even if they did 01:24:44 well 01:24:49 they're a shitty gladiator of fighter *with* the piety thing too, and they didn't used to have it 01:24:50 it's got problems at least 01:24:51 i think i'mwith gamma 01:25:11 main one is starting with a skill trained that you literally cannot use in any way 01:25:14 minmay: if they didn't have the piety thing, i would remove them. agreed that they're not strong regardless. 01:25:47 numbers open to feedback, of course 01:25:49 then remove them. the free piety thing does nothing until you find an altar 01:25:52 pr up 01:26:43 if an unarmed background without spells is so uninteresting that it can't exist without attaching a completely unrelated thing to it, why is it in the game at all 01:27:39 and if you make Mo closer to Fi you just make it more obvious that Mo is worse than Fi, since you cannot actually use the piety bonus on d:1 01:27:58 New branch created: pull/298 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/298 01:27:58 03chequers02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/298 * 0.19-a0-644-gef97b5c: Rework Monk start. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ef97b5ccef1c 01:28:00 -!- escu_ is now known as escu 01:28:00 chequers: you missed the dat/descript/backgrounds.txt description 01:28:07 we add a release divine energy ability 01:28:09 I'm fond of the gimmick, myself 01:28:17 converts your piety into a cleansing-flame like explosion 01:28:19 it's like aspirants, but much much less so 01:28:38 imo an effect that you can use by d:2 is fine. 01:28:50 yes, it's weaker than most backgrounds 01:29:15 it's not just weaker than most backgrounds, it's strictly worse than two existing backgrounds 01:29:27 Strictly Worse 01:29:32 this rework is a Fi with no equipment 01:29:38 how is that an improvement 01:29:38 for some definition of the word 'strictly' 01:29:47 I think you're overstating the optimal play case 01:30:36 in my experience most of minmay's advice/suggestions assume that the game ends on D:3 01:30:46 Mo is weaker than the other backgrounds that are not CK, right? 01:30:48 you are missing the point 01:31:06 why is it an improvement to make Mo *more* like other existing backgrounds 01:31:09 the point of a background is to help you survive the early game, so something like an aspirant is goofy, since that doesn't help you survive the early game 01:31:21 what is/was aspirant? 01:31:21 thankfully, gods exist in the early game 01:31:25 a lastyism 01:31:34 ?/lastyism 01:31:35 No matches. 01:31:36 I was vaguely thinking about making monk 'nothing but the bonus piety' as a challenge class 01:31:39 start with a highlevel book or some other weird shit you won't be able to use for half the game 01:31:42 that's not what the point of a backround is, what a weird way to state things 01:31:48 ah yeah 01:31:54 gammafunk: would you like to rephrase that in a more constructive way? 01:32:03 ??farmer 01:32:04 farming[1/1]: "Farming" or "Farmer" is added to the titles of games lasting longer than 200,000 turns by Sequell. 01:32:07 chequers: it's already a challenge class 01:32:09 if you gave Mo a scale mail and shield it would also make it stronger, but it would not be an improvement because it drags it even closer to Fi, and that is all that your weapon change accomplishes 01:32:21 well I don't get how you could ever think that the point of a choice is to help you survive? 01:32:21 'nothing but the bonus piety' is what it already is 01:32:39 -!- Jafet has joined ##crawl-dev 01:32:42 the intention wasn't to make monk stronger, it was to make monk look more appealing to broader styles of play 01:32:52 i guess the question is about how significant you consider a base-tier weapon/weapon skill 01:32:54 I mean, I accept making monk stronger is a side effect of the change 01:32:56 as opposed to uc 01:33:06 03chequers02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/298 * 0.19-a0-644-g7f3052c: Rework Monk start. 10(13 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7f3052cff468 01:33:10 i think that fi is pretty meaningfully distinct from new-mo 01:33:20 insofar as: it has a shield, a better weapon, and a potion of might. and some armour 01:33:26 yes 01:33:27 and no piety 01:33:33 notice that Fi is distinct from Mo by being better 01:33:50 instead of playing differently 01:33:51 except in the way in which it's worse 01:33:58 and I dislike the approach of ignoring non-d:1 helpful things as if background decision is strictly optimal decision territory. I mean, there's CK 01:34:14 chequers: any reasoning behind lowering the starting skills? 01:34:22 if monk should go because it's like Fi with an irrelevant gimmick, CK should too 01:34:39 PleasingFungus: "well, I guess starting piety is worth this much extra skill" 01:34:40 xom does something on D:1 01:34:45 starting piety with no god does not 01:35:04 chequers: it started with 4 weapon skill before, now 2; it had 2 stealth before, now 0 01:35:06 I've always thought of Mo is a challenge class in general; make the early game hard so that you can enjoy a present when you find a god. It is kind of like CK 01:35:08 so: ??? 01:35:26 why is it necessary that every aspect of a background matter on D:1 01:35:31 happy to perform a dev-suggested buff! 01:35:47 by forcing unarmed Mo and not-unarmed Fi/Gl, you arguably make Mo bad, but at least it is different from Fi/Gl in a way other than just being worse 01:36:04 we're going around in circles 01:36:26 although, I'd prefer to give more points to fighting rather than weapon skill, which is partly Fi differeentiation but also 'more like a book start' 01:36:34 given that the majority of games do not end on d:1, i think it's fine for starting piety to exist on a background 01:36:39 -!- hellmonk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:36:47 !lg * current / d:1 01:36:54 46358/215062 games for * (current): N=46358/215062 (21.56%) 01:37:14 point accepted... 01:37:25 you don't get to accept that point, you aren't arguing with me!! 01:37:29 so would you also find a background interesting that started with a god like TSO or makhleb? it'd matter if you got past D:1 01:37:37 only people who disagree with me are allowed to agree with me 01:37:39 I think m. has a good point that making the background less distinct 01:37:48 *that this change is 01:37:59 is there currently any other class that has some points in unarmed at the start? 01:38:04 sure 01:38:06 lordfrikk: unarmed Fi/Gl 01:38:07 fi, gl 01:38:18 I'm not really sure what a happy medium in terms of the bg being considered fun is 01:38:21 I guess some people find a challenge class like Mo unfun 01:38:31 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:38:51 here's two alternatives: start with a weapon but 0 weapon skill, or start with more fighting and no weapon/weapon skill 01:38:52 I don't personally have a problem with it existing since it's taking a meaningful direction for your char: unarmed combat 01:39:09 gammafunk: and as of PF/chequers' commits, it isn't anymore 01:39:12 right 01:39:13 I like the piety thing, it was distinct from all other backgrounds 01:39:18 I also liked it unarmed 01:39:20 I'm keen to hear an idea from minmay which isn't 'leave monk or remove it' 01:39:36 ask minmay for his ideas about dreams 01:39:45 I actually had a weird one today 01:39:59 chequers: what don't you like about Mo, in a nutshell? 01:40:13 I do not think monk can reasonably coexist with Fi/Gl if you do not change Fi/Gl at least a little bit (by removing unarmed, or merging them, or something) 01:40:15 minmay: zealot backgrounds were removed because they removed an interesting choice from the game (in-dungeon god choice) without making the early game meaningfully different. the first part matters! 01:40:27 the bonus piety is a cool concept but players feel railroaded into uc play due to the starting sp 01:40:43 starting sp? 01:40:47 skill points 01:40:48 isn't removing an interesting choice from the game what backgrounds are designed to do? otherwise they would all start with all skills at 0 01:40:50 oh ok 01:41:19 minmay: so why do backgrounds exist then 01:41:33 I fully support removing background choice from the game 01:41:39 aight 01:41:48 it's also not what I am arguing in support of right now, so I am not sure why you bring it up 01:41:52 -!- Rotatell has joined ##crawl-dev 01:42:04 minmay: yred was certainly useful early on. do you think that death knight should have been kept? 01:42:15 PleasingFungus: absolutely not 01:42:30 is that a response to the first or second sentence? I guess i left myself open for ambiguity... 01:42:36 second 01:42:37 because of your statement one line above it? 01:42:53 (it also doesn't help that Ne starts with animate skeleton too) 01:42:57 sure 01:43:08 but what's the primary reason that dk should've been removed, in your opinion? 01:43:27 it started with a god 01:43:32 -!- PleasingFungus has left ##crawl-dev 01:43:38 ...wow 01:43:47 I don't know what answer he was looking for but I guess that wasn't it 01:43:55 something where you provided context, I think 01:44:00 You chose....poorly... 01:44:16 like, after this whole discussion I don't really understand your overarching approach to backgrounds 01:44:17 Has that scene from that movie been made into a meme yet? 01:44:25 @??phantom 01:44:25 phantom (02W) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 32-44 | AC/EV: 3/13 | Dam: 1006(blink self) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, fly, unbreathing | Res: 06magic(40), 02cold++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 124 | Sp: blink [06!sil] | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 01:44:27 I guess I know the answer 01:44:49 anyway, my monk suggestion has not changed from my original monk suggestion: the background is differentiated by having no equipment but lots of skill points, so give it more skill points to make it less bad 01:44:58 instead of giving it equipment to make it less bad 01:45:02 you want distinct backgrounds but certain types of distinction (eg free piety) are irrelevant 01:45:29 I think I agree that removing the unarmed Gl/Fi and making monk all about that and the headstart piety is not a bad direction to push it 01:45:33 I think the free piety is an extremely small distinction to the point that it can be safely ignored 01:45:52 -!- Laptop_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:45:58 from a 'chance of winning' perspective? 01:46:07 If the objective is neither to buff Mo, or differentiate Mo further, then my suggestion doesn't make sense 01:46:25 chequers: from a 'when I play the game I barely notice it' perspective 01:46:32 yeah free piety is pretty irrelevant for all practical purposes, but it's certainly a gimmick that the bg will need in order to continue existing 01:48:10 From these commit messages it sounds like the goal is to make Mo use weapons more often to increase variety between Mo games, but I think this will actually have the opposite effect; currently unarmed combat is so bad early game that Mo often switches to a weapon 01:48:17 maybe monk should move to leather armour. which would be closer to fi/gl, but it would "allow" you to start the class with both armour and dodging 01:48:20 now someone trying to win will never pick unarmed on Mo 01:48:36 right 01:48:40 -!- Laptop__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:49:16 well, I think if good monk players generally switch away from uc, it won't really change weapon variety, it will just remove a newbie trap 01:49:19 of course, if you are going to buff unarmed to make it a reasonable choice on Fi/Gl/Mo/Sk/Wr/Be/whatever else has a melee weapon choice, that concern becomes irrelevant 01:49:34 uc buff is out of scope :) 01:49:38 they don't always switch away from uc, they sometimes switch away from uc 01:50:07 I have Mo games where it is clearly optimal to switch to a weapon and Mo games where it is optimal to stick to unarmed 01:50:20 so you're saying right now there is an interesting choice between low-skill uc and zero-skill d:1 weapon swap 01:50:42 and if you start with weapon skill (or zero uc), that choice will become a no-brainer 01:50:47 no, that choice exists for every background if you find a good off-class weapon. I mean switching skill training to a weapon class 01:51:04 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:51:31 you simply do not switch your skill training from a weapon class to unarmed early game, unless you somehow get multiple levels of claws, because unarmed without forms is not very good 01:52:10 If the intent is for unarmed without forms to be as good as melee weapons, then it's better to change that than have something like old Mo, obviously. But apparently that's out of scope 01:52:59 -!- Rotatell has quit [*.net *.split] 01:53:18 you write like a unix man page. All the information I want from you is probably in this conversation, but put in such baroque ways I have to re-read it several times to possibly understand the nuance you're trying to illuminate 01:53:32 Well I got what he was saying 01:53:51 I mean it's a pretty clear line of reasoning 01:53:57 I suppose a good summary of this is "no-weapon-choice Mo is currently the only background with which it makes sense to use unarmed without forms/claws" 01:54:28 I'm not sure if you could go with that suggestion of just giving more skill points to make it better 01:54:30 I am not convinced that this is important, but I do think it is a lot more significant than the bonus piety 01:54:40 ok 01:54:42 obviously all monks should start with claws 2 mutation *nod* 01:54:44 I think a lot of people are used to Mo start just being more challenging 01:55:09 I do like the idea of this tradeoff existing 01:55:15 or they are choosing Tr or maybe Gh 01:55:23 It's also not THAT much more challenging than Fi/Gl. yes it's the worst or 2nd worst background but it's not super hard or anything 01:56:08 I wonder what e. thinks of Mo and the idea of Mo changes 01:56:16 now I'm interested, what's the worst background currently in the game? 01:56:22 The other point is "even Mo that starts with unarmed should switch to a weapon sometimes, so giving it a weapon choice at the start actually gives it less variety (because unarmed is no longer a real choice)" 01:56:40 -!- dexap is now known as paxed 01:56:41 either Mo or CK depending on how much you hate xom basically 01:57:10 Wn was worse than Mo once upon a time but it keeps getting buffed and now it's bizarrely good 01:57:35 There's nothing bizarre about DgWn 01:57:37 I wonder if you could encourage more UC swaps by giving 2*SK_WEAPON if people choose it when they get a choice 01:57:52 bizarre for what it sounds like, I mean. It's not overpowered or anything but it's really hard to get a bad Wn start now 01:57:56 01:58:22 -!- Rotatell has joined ##crawl-dev 01:58:22 chequers: I think that would be a good change 01:58:54 Robe too heavy for Ozocubu's Armour 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10507 by nubinia 01:59:14 unarmed has a real problem with forms/claws though, it kind of tries to be usable without forms/claws but forms/claws make it better, so you can't have it perfectly balanced in both cases 01:59:29 I guess UC apts are such that you're not going to get nutso levels of UC 01:59:41 right I mean, Tr would become even more insane 02:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:14 if you don't want to address the claws problem you can always make Tr less insane by not giving it tons of free HP and AC :P 02:00:16 how about this approach: leather armour, no weapon choice, 4 fighting, 2(3?) dodging, 2(3?) armour, bonus piety 02:00:40 that still loses the interesting weapon choice 02:00:42 chequers: no weapon or unarmed skill? 02:01:15 right 02:01:30 that seems harsh even for a """challenge""" background, have you tried fighting with 0 skill unarmed and no claws or auxes 02:01:37 -!- Dix has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:01:41 partly for Fi/Gl differentiation, partly to encourage 'need to decide when to start skilling a weapon' 02:02:08 yeah, it probably is 02:02:16 heh. maybe monk can have bonus weapon skill 02:02:28 +2 weapon skill in the first weapon class you wield 02:02:31 it is like swinging a -1 dagger with no skill and a bit less accuracy 02:02:51 even with 4 fighting? let me go try it now 02:02:53 obviously start it with 2 levels in all weapon skills and 4 levels in unarmed 02:03:06 :) 02:03:07 well then the skill points transfer 02:03:08 ash-style 02:03:08 4 fighting does solve the accuracy problem but the damage is seriously bad 02:03:12 people will complain about acq 02:03:17 when you pick up a weapon or hit with UC the first time 02:03:26 basically the first melee you make decides where they go 02:03:31 or maybe it's gradual 02:03:49 I know duvessa likes ash a lot 02:03:53 you probably have to punch something before finding a certain weapon class, so it might be restrictive to make it 'first attack' 02:04:03 restriction may be a good thing though... 02:04:03 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/phantom.png 02:04:11 are you aware that I'm joking, chequers? 02:04:16 I don't really have a design problem with this version of Mo though, except that Ar should lose its short sword because Ar having better melee would just be silly 02:04:22 and Ar should lose its short sword anyway 02:04:24 gammafunk: when you said skill point transfer 02:05:10 gammafunk: duvessa is actually the most woke character in the game 02:05:24 gammafunk: she recognizes the truth about looks and "Hell" 02:05:41 Oh I haven't noticed 02:05:47 I don't even notice duvessa when she appears 02:05:49 too plain looking 02:06:25 -!- JStrange has joined ##crawl-dev 02:06:52 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:07:06 ontoclasm: looks less blurry! Can you give me an in-game shot? 02:07:15 yeah, it's compiling 02:07:21 it's definitely a challenge background, but I can clear most of d:1 with such a start 02:07:23 it looks much better against a dark background 02:07:27 I like that it has a sprinting pose, since you know that mother@*#@$ is going to blink soon 02:07:46 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.19-a0-677-g995e725: De-invert an Ozo's condition (10507) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/995e725c3dbe 02:07:52 hah 02:08:01 Wait, what's a challenge background? 02:08:06 gammafunk: well, obviously duvessa isn't going to dress all fancy and put on makeup when she's fighting dungeongoers 02:08:08 CJR strikes again: https://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/4nr6kp/dcss_does_anyone_knows_why_the_text_is_like_this/ 02:08:13 gammafunk: it'd just smear 02:08:17 gammafunk: it's where the scenery has like 02:08:18 gammafunk: this Monk 02:08:21 two cowboys 02:08:26 chequers: oh ok, I thought you meant Ar 02:08:45 minmay: a real lady can fight and have immaculate makeup 02:08:46 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.19-a0-676-g281ae47 (34) 02:09:02 it can't kill a d:1 adder almost ever, but otherwise I feel the balance is ok 02:09:20 wonder if there's a reasonable solution to that though 02:09:28 gammafunk: http://orig06.deviantart.net/d417/f/2015/304/5/4/15_10_03___1__by_likaloony-d9f226j.jpg 02:09:30 amalloy: CJR is proof that Canada is not normal 02:09:44 gammafunk: I thought evilmike was already your proof of that 02:10:02 amalloy: it makes me sad that reddit's banner at the top has like 02:10:11 -!- lordfrikk has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:10:16 a super old dcss screen 02:10:32 we're talking like 0.5 02:10:38 most backgrounds can't safely kill a D:1 adder anyway 02:10:44 ontoclasm: that last link was to /r/roguelikes. do you mean that one, or /r/dcss? 02:10:50 but seriously Ar's short sword makes me mad 02:10:58 r/roguelikes 02:11:08 Ar should have a dagger? 02:11:20 it should have a rod of striking 02:11:20 r/dcss has nothing whatsoever 02:11:20 well, i'm only a mod of /r/dcss, so i can't fix that one. but you could make a post suggesting it, and maybe provide a better image? 02:12:05 xD 02:12:17 gammafunk: I'm actually pretty close to running out of duvessa pictures 02:12:27 maybe i'll make a whole banner; i know a bunch of the other ones are old too 02:12:38 nice onto 02:12:50 message the mooooods 02:13:02 one of them jamesvagabond is super helpful 02:13:02 ug, the moods are so up and down though 02:13:03 otoh i have made literally one post on reddit ever 02:13:24 is the post in the style of ontoclasm on SA? 02:13:35 hm? 02:13:40 i'm megane on SA 02:13:49 you know, more aggressive at shouting at people 02:13:58 haha 02:14:13 I did appreciate that when they were making a huge fuss over losing rmut 02:14:49 heh 02:14:57 ok, pushed the most recent monk revision to the PR, happy for more feedback 02:15:40 ontoclasm: I'm midway through getting real-life pictures of all the crawl uniques, so far agnes is the most difficult one because the only green-haired people with staves are palutena cosplayers 02:15:50 !source give_job_skills 02:15:51 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/jobs.cc#l128 02:15:55 good comment 02:16:07 I dunno, dissolution? 02:16:22 neat 02:16:26 dissolution is comic book guy from The Simpsons 02:16:29 if it's just a picture of a jaba the hut cosplayer I'll know 02:16:40 -!- Grivan has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:16:41 chequers: pls implement my background suggestion 02:16:43 *jabba the hutt 02:16:49 ontoclasm: what was it sorry 02:17:03 ontoclasm: this one does fit her character pretty well http://orig02.deviantart.net/72bc/f/2012/242/9/4/child_of_mist_by_uchiha_yurai-d5cz6rc.png maybe I should just photoshop a lajatang into it 02:17:23 chequers: no skills no items 02:17:28 fox only final destination 02:17:35 ontoclasm: personally I like it as an option 02:17:39 i guess maybe one ration 02:17:44 no 02:17:48 one fruit 02:17:53 w h o a 02:17:58 minmay: how do you feel about FeFi/FeGl getting +2 UC as a special case 02:18:01 ontoclasm: surely the crawl equivalent is MuMo only no gods no items 02:18:06 03chequers02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/298 * 0.19-a0-644-g86df21a: Rework Monk start. 10(58 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/86df21aff001 02:18:09 minmay: leave as-is 02:18:38 lol, FeFi gets +2 UC but FeGl doesn't 02:18:45 chequers: I think you'll find that very few people care about FeGl's starting skills 02:19:41 oh hahaha 02:20:33 they used to care tho 02:20:37 !lg * fegl 02:20:41 24. casmith789 the Scratcher (L5 FeGl of Elyvilon), blasted by an orc priest (divine providence) on D:4 on 2011-02-17 16:26:12, with 333 points after 6760 turns and 0:12:38. 02:20:55 maybe that wasn't in a release 02:20:57 !lg * fegl s=cv 02:20:58 24 games for * (fegl): 24x 0.8-a 02:21:01