00:00:05 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:30 -!- Demise_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:09:10 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.19-a0-262-g5df7875 (34) 00:10:26 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 00:10:27 The build failed. (master - f6a2070 #5577 : Neil Moore): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/132703884 00:10:27 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 00:10:28 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 00:10:56 is it intentional that Ash doesn't ID rods when you have a cursed weapon? 00:15:05 <|amethyst> hm 00:15:24 <|amethyst> I managed to break clang builds 00:18:41 -!- themonosyllabic has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:19:25 03|amethyst02 07* 0.19-a0-263-gbdc1cec: Fix clang compilation. 10(15 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bdc1cec79585 00:20:25 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.19-a0-262-g5df7875 (34) 00:21:00 travis was useful \o/ 00:21:10 i think ash doesn't id staves either 00:23:15 <|amethyst> gammafunk: of course, our builds take so long that I had to cancel six pending builds when I realised they'd have the same problem :) 00:23:22 hah 00:23:49 minmay: ash IDs staves, but not when I stood on the pile in the lab 00:23:56 picking them up IDed them 00:24:22 -!- debo_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:24:45 -!- mibe has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:28:18 -!- Demise_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:28:40 -!- Demise_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:30:05 <|amethyst> much better now, green checkboxes abound 00:30:33 -!- Lasty_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:25 <|amethyst> !learn set millimarvin[1] 14.515 net lines of code removed (as of 2016-05-25) 00:33:26 millimarvin[1/1]: 14.515 net lines of code removed (as of 2016-05-25) 00:37:35 -!- gressup has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:42:30 millilemuel: 16 player deaths 00:42:44 !source bolt::apply_enchantment_to_monster 00:42:45 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc#l5383 00:43:10 when this applies Sap Magic to a monster, this uses "their". it should use the usual monster-gender pronoun code, right? 00:43:54 well, i'll answer my own question: yes. but where is that code? 00:44:18 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:45:47 <|amethyst> amalloy: mon->pronoun(PRONOUN_POSSESSIVE) 00:45:57 thanks 00:46:12 -!- Rust3dCor3 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:47:26 I guess you should really extrapolate since lemuel vaults have been killing people since long before kmap or even map was tracked 00:48:04 <|amethyst> !lg * kmap~~lemuel||map~~lemuel 00:48:13 60006. xomboid the Skirmisher (L2 DsFi), quit the game on D:2 (lemuel_round_altar) on 2016-05-25 04:36:36, with 14 points after 614 turns and 0:01:00. 00:48:18 <|amethyst> !lg * kmap~~lemuel||map~~lemuel x=min(cv) 00:48:33 60006 games for * (kmap~~lemuel || map~~lemuel): min(cv)=0.10 00:48:45 <|amethyst> !lg * kmap~~lemuel x=min(cv) 00:48:46 16077 games for * (kmap~~lemuel): min(cv)=0.12 00:49:01 -!- hellmonk has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:49:05 <|amethyst> !lg * kmap~~lemuel||map~~lemuel cv>0.12 00:49:14 39630. xomboid the Skirmisher (L2 DsFi), quit the game on D:2 (lemuel_round_altar) on 2016-05-25 04:36:36, with 14 points after 614 turns and 0:01:00. 00:49:29 probably want to exclude arrival/entry vaults from that 00:49:43 <|amethyst> that's too much work 00:49:49 !lg * kmap~~minmay||map~~minmay 00:49:57 165546. koko2891 the Shield-Bearer (L1 TrFi), quit the game on D:1 (minmay_arrival_arboretum_small) on 2016-05-25 04:44:07, with 0 points after 0 turns and 0:00:01. 00:50:01 !lg * kmap~~minmay||map~~minmay map!~~misc_feat map!~~arrival map!~~entry 00:50:08 you could just add !boring 00:50:09 81818. SevenDeadlySins the Basher (L10 DsFi of Ukayaw), blasted by an electric eel (bolt of electricity) on D:10 (minmay_twisted_water) on 2016-05-25 04:24:33, with 5649 points after 8532 turns and 0:13:21. 00:50:12 (this catches things like minmay lair entries too but w/e) 00:50:22 ontoclasm: but a lot of people die to a hobgoblin in the arrival vault 00:51:25 man, minmay_twisted_water is a terrible vault 00:51:46 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 00:52:05 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:56:23 -!- debo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:58:02 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:59:12 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:39 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 01:05:47 nice, gammafuk 01:05:47 -!- Shard1697 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:05:47 *funk 01:05:51 accidental dunk there. 01:07:12 -!- jeefus has joined ##crawl-dev 01:07:14 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 01:07:15 The build was fixed. (master - bdc1cec #5584 : Neil Moore): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/132742338 01:07:15 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 01:09:12 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.19-a0-263-gbdc1cec (34) 01:09:19 -!- Lightli_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:10:19 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:10:41 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:10:55 -!- jefus has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:13:44 Why does Hep hate felids? 01:14:10 a felid killed his ancestor 01:14:32 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:14:44 I don't buy it 01:14:47 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:14:58 hep upgrades are flavoured as weapons only a humanoid can use 01:15:15 also I don't totally think this is reasonable -- spriggan ancestor doesn't move at spriggan speed 01:15:30 you could just call felid ancestor "the wizard that made the cat into a felid" 01:17:13 -!- Harudoku has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:19:19 hep's just allergic 01:19:34 -!- koboldina has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:19:48 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.19-a0-263-gbdc1cec (34) 01:22:32 felid is already annoying to play, no need to restrict its god choices even further 01:28:26 yeah it just seems like a frustrating restriction 01:30:30 felid player can have a whole story arc about the wizard that made it 01:30:39 call the ancestor Noonian Soong 01:31:10 pine to become a real human 01:31:16 -!- Beargit has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:20 ...oid 01:33:55 felids should just evolve into humans like in Red Dwarf 01:37:26 03amalloy02 07* 0.19-a0-264-gaf32591: Use proper pronoun when casting sap magic on a monster 10(30 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/af32591520b8 01:38:29 i've got an encompass vault in my game that i can't find in depths.des, depths_encompass.des, or zot.des. could it be coming from somewhere else, or am i just bad at recognizing vaults? 01:40:23 !source d_encompass.des 01:40:24 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/d_encompass.des 01:40:28 is it in that one? 01:41:11 aha, it is 01:41:22 !vault hangedman_slaughterboxes 01:41:22 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/d_encompass.des#l8 01:41:24 thanks CanOfWorms 01:41:40 good ol slaughterboxes 01:42:08 yeah those vaults can appear either in D or U, iirc 01:42:22 <|amethyst> amalloy: what's that vertical line of inverse video 01:42:45 |amethyst: ? 01:44:00 -!- Grivan has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:44:15 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:44:23 <|amethyst> apparently it's a hugeterm rendering thing 01:44:27 -!- tealeaves has quit [Client Quit] 01:44:43 oh 01:44:44 <|amethyst> I was connecting with an 80x24 terminal, and your game is 80x25 01:45:05 i wasn't sure if you were asking about my game somehow or the vault or what 01:45:16 the tiniest hugeterm the world has ever seen 01:45:47 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 01:47:50 -!- FunkyBomb has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:49:52 !seen drke 01:49:52 I last saw DrKe at Mon May 23 19:56:15 2016 UTC (1d 9h 53m 36s ago) quitting, saying 'Ping timeout: 250 seconds'. 01:50:11 !tell drke 0.19 trunk has been out for nearly four days and your god tiers aren't updated smh 01:50:11 chequers: OK, I'll let drke know. 01:50:16 oh god, i just realized i've been clearing this horrible hangedman vault because i thought the entrance to zot was inside it. but actually i already found the entrance and just didn't notice 01:52:45 ??tiers 01:52:45 tiers[1/1]: Races: http://i.imgur.com/NMsN77b.png Gods: http://i.imgur.com/QuSrpL6.png (tiles) / http://pastebin.com/UWHjNUNC (text) 01:53:00 races totally haven't changed 01:55:30 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 01:55:35 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.19-a0-264-gaf32591 01:56:30 zxc: they might have@ what if hep is so strong a hep altar is an instant win? then Fe got a lot weaker 01:56:46 onoz 01:57:20 I don't know what you're saying but it sounds dangerous 02:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:35 zxc: i mean that although player races haven't changed, in *theory* the tier list could need updating because of new options that are better for some races than others. in practice, i dobut it makes much difference 02:01:11 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:01:21 the tier lists have been updated 02:01:29 well I was taking that into account as I think nothing's changed for races 02:01:32 both gods are so weak they're worse than atheist and shouldn't be mentioned 02:01:54 if you worship you are guaranteed to lose 02:01:59 yeah you never want to get hep tbh 02:02:00 *worship them 02:02:14 and uka is just a typo right? 02:03:34 !hw * uka 02:03:36 er 02:03:38 !hs * uka 02:03:39 493. blooo the Axe Maniac (L27 MuFi of Ukayaw), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2016-05-25 00:38:28, with 23075658 points after 65440 turns and 3:27:49. 02:04:12 !hs * hep 02:04:13 582. Thraspic the Skullcrusher (L27 MiFi of Hepliaklqana), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2016-04-15 20:44:13, with 15338505 points after 102796 turns and 8:26:04. 02:04:39 mummy of uka faster than a minotaur of hep 02:04:44 !hs * hep won 02:04:45 that confirms it 02:04:45 31. Thraspic the Skullcrusher (L27 MiFi of Hepliaklqana), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2016-04-15 20:44:13, with 15338505 points after 102796 turns and 8:26:04. 02:04:50 !hs * uka won 02:04:51 18. blooo the Axe Maniac (L27 MuFi of Ukayaw), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2016-05-25 00:38:28, with 23075658 points after 65440 turns and 3:27:49. 02:04:58 indeed 02:05:34 -!- jehoesefat has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:05:34 well 02:05:37 we could use a yowie god 02:05:38 !hs * mu 02:05:40 237794. elliptic the Demonologist (L23 MuSu of Sif Muna), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2012-09-13 19:39:50, with 52436210 points after 27371 turns and 8:00:10. 02:05:41 !hs * mi 02:05:43 369556. 4thArraOfDagon the Invulnerable (L27 MiBe of The Shining One), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2015-11-27 13:15:09, with 55604094 points after 25974 turns and 4:43:50. 02:05:49 Mu stronger than Mi 02:06:03 clearly, by sequell... 02:06:07 incontrovertible 02:06:19 but the numbers 02:06:23 do you just ignore numbers? 02:06:30 IANAN 02:06:36 I am not a number 02:06:45 rip oldsummoning 02:06:47 -!- Lightli_ is now known as Lightli 02:07:10 !lm * god.worship !boring xl<10 current trunk s=god urune<=5 / won o=% 02:07:36 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 02:07:50 why under 5 02:07:50 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:08:12 actually that is wrong 02:08:23 I think you need urune<1 02:08:23 !lm * god.worship !boring xl<10 current trunk s=god lg:urune<=5 / won o=% 02:08:23 that's what I wanted 02:08:27 because many people switch gods after 3 runes or sth 02:08:34 oh xl<10 02:08:40 90s limit exceeded: killed !lm * god.worship !boring xl<10 current trunk s=god urune<=5 / won o=% 02:08:41 not sure why you have urune then 02:08:43 nice 02:08:49 noone has 6 runes below xl 10 02:08:49 yeah it was supposed to be lg:urune 02:08:57 ah 02:08:59 no urune 02:09:09 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.19-a0-264-gaf32591 (34) 02:09:10 122/5308 milestones for * (god.worship !boring xl<10 current trunk lg:urune<=5): 8/119x Trog [6.72%], 4/61x Fedhas [6.56%], 14/226x Pakellas [6.19%], 2/64x Elyvilon [3.12%], 7/225x Gozag [3.11%], 9/295x Makhleb [3.05%], 10/340x Ru [2.94%], 7/274x Ashenzari [2.55%], 4/160x Qazlal [2.50%], 22/947x Okawaru [2.32%], 1/44x Ukayaw [2.27%], 6/293x Dithmenos [2.05%], 2/99x Nemelex Xobeh [2.02%], 5/250x Th... 02:09:10 apparnetly that's a bit much for sequell right now 02:09:13 I think I made a similar query one time 02:09:25 this is a good tier list 02:09:47 dang tbh i thought H was too powerful in testing 02:09:58 well, uh 02:09:58 maybe it's a 'feels powerful for bad players' thing like Ds 02:10:09 but Ds is powerful for everyone 02:10:10 I hope you're not basing your assesment on sequell queries 02:10:12 just need to live till lair 02:10:20 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 02:10:29 hep is probably pretty strong since it gives you a strong ally early in the game 02:10:55 is that ally as good as an army of mushrooms though 02:10:57 or rather it gives you an ally, which is usually all you have to give someone 02:11:19 -!- FireSight has quit [] 02:11:20 well pretty strong is not defined as "as strong as fedhas", at least to me 02:11:29 since Fed is maybe the strongest god 02:11:29 some people think fedhas is weak :P{ 02:11:45 who 02:11:46 crazy isn't it? 02:12:16 it's just that one crazy guy dialing random numbers from a phone book all day who thinks that, watch 02:13:45 Qaz has a better winrate in trunk than uka, please buff lasty! 02:14:21 I guess that shoudl be "please buff, Lasty", but maybe if you buff Lasty, buffed Lasty will buff uka 02:15:00 i'm waiting fo rthe first mpa commit to h/u 02:15:20 gammafunk: uka has had more cerebov instakills though 02:15:27 which is imo a better metric than win% 02:15:58 we all know that the true metric is now gloorx instakills 02:16:11 formerly lom instakills formely cerebov instakils 02:16:26 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:16:38 -!- tealeaves has quit [Client Quit] 02:17:33 gammafunk: this horrible FeSu^Xom is still alive, and shattered my personal record for "lowest XL to zot:5" 02:17:50 you should have employed my technique 02:18:05 not really sure how i am going to manage this though. only a few ?tele, no apport, only one ?blinking, no extra lives 02:18:16 and also zot:1 is a clusterfuck i don't have a path back to the stairs for 02:18:16 oh, you don't have high level summons? 02:18:26 amalloy: rip 02:18:40 i have shadow creatures 02:18:40 -!- vale_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:18:40 !stalk amalloy 02:18:40 if you have shadow creatures and maybe an L7 like menag 02:18:40 amalloy the L18 FeSu^Xom in Zot:5 (cao console), T:117349, runes: 3 (abyssal, gossamer, decaying), defenses: 7/34/3, stats: 7/21/26, >15 skills: Fighting,Dodging,Stealth,Hexes 02:19:13 i have hexes that are good enough for most living things 02:19:17 invis/discord 02:19:32 well, you can grind a bit of xp to get some higher levels summons 02:19:38 then just clear zot:5 w/o tele 02:19:44 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:19:48 !lm amalloy br.enter=zot min=xl 02:19:50 66. [2015-11-21 22:29:39] amalloy the Warrior (L19 DsSu of Ashenzari) entered the Realm of Zot on turn 60323. (Depths:5) 02:19:57 !lm zxc br.enter=zot min=xl 02:19:58 !lm . br.enter=zot min=xl 02:19:58 if i could grind xp i wouldn't spend it on summons, esp given that those books don't exist 02:19:59 74. [2014-04-21 10:10:51] zzxc the Imperceptible (L21 SpEn of Dithmenos) entered the Realm of Zot on turn 45378. (Depths:5) 02:20:00 69. [2016-03-26 02:17:40] gammafunk the Demonologist (L21 VpSu of Sif Muna) entered the Realm of Zot on turn 66303. (Depths:5) 02:20:04 !lm . br.enter=zot min=xl 02:20:05 22. [2015-11-14 14:09:17] chequers the Slayer (L21 MiGl of Jiyva) entered the Realm of Zot on turn 45788. (Depths:5) 02:20:06 br.end, not br.enter 02:20:12 21 forever brothers 02:20:17 my br.end is actually lower than my br.enter 02:20:20 felid reasons 02:20:23 lol 02:20:25 ahahh 02:20:26 XD 02:20:30 !lm 02:20:31 7280. [2016-05-25 06:15:42] amalloy the Maledictor (L18 FeSu of Xom) reached level 5 of the Realm of Zot on turn 117349. (Zot:5) 02:20:49 this is what you get for doing weird not-summoner things 02:20:52 they never learn... 02:20:57 like going xom? 02:21:00 i will never play a gfsummoner 02:21:04 that certainly won't help 02:21:06 but yeah, xom has cost me a lot this game 02:21:11 it was scoring well in t... 02:21:17 hey, you don't even have to go to dragon's call 02:21:18 !lg * won recent god=xom / !ck 02:21:23 26/150 games for * (won recent god=xom): N=26/150 (17.33%) 02:21:33 just xxx would win the game for you though 02:21:44 probably menag + another good summon would as well depending on how careful you are 02:21:46 man 02:21:50 i don't have any of these dumb spells gf 02:21:56 what do you have 02:22:05 they do not exist in my game even if i wanted them 02:22:07 and when did you waste opportunities to acquire book 02:22:09 &dump 02:22:10 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/amalloy/amalloy.txt 02:22:22 you have weird sif-coloured glasses 02:22:28 sif-colored?! 02:22:33 sif means I don't have to acquire book! 02:22:37 (most of the time) 02:22:55 22 hexes 02:23:00 you are killing me 02:23:02 I'm literally dead 02:23:18 !learn add sif_muna_reasons sif means I don't have to acquire book! (most of the time) 02:23:18 sif muna reasons[4/4]: sif means I don't have to acquire book! (most of the time) 02:23:48 i needed invis to survive lair branches, and then discord helped in depths 02:23:54 with 22 hexes all you'd acquire is yara's, anyhow 02:23:57 ok invis but 02:23:59 22 hexes? 02:24:07 you realize that invis is not a level 9 spell 02:24:21 amalloy: add a L9 hex then go back to finish this game 02:24:33 +1 02:24:37 "Ultra Hex: hex any monster, even the stupid MR immune ones" 02:25:00 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 02:25:01 The build was broken. (master - af32591 #5585 : Alan Malloy): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/132749997 02:25:01 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 02:25:03 You are frail (-10% HP). 02:25:17 You done real bad this char, amalloy 02:25:17 gammafunk: i was Frail 2 most of the game! 02:25:18 real bad 02:25:19 xom reasons 02:25:24 it was amazing 02:25:40 did you do a few levels of the zig 02:25:56 i did 02:26:03 4 levels 02:26:08 god i'm gonna die in here 02:26:46 elliptic is smart when he hates su 02:26:54 he just worships trog or ru and sacs love 02:26:59 that's how you hate summoners 02:27:13 :) 02:27:51 amalloy: this looks very rip 02:28:33 if i just had like one or two more of various consumables 02:28:36 but xom made me eat them all 02:28:41 i think bail with PoG 02:29:09 lol xom 02:29:18 yeah 02:29:23 he did save you 02:29:31 wow dang 02:29:32 aww :( 02:29:39 i heard one close, but i thought the rest were up 02:29:52 PoG ninja is broken anyway 02:30:02 clearly broken, because it doesn't work :( 02:31:43 !log amalloy 02:31:44 404. amalloy, XL14 VpTm, T:26099: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/amalloy/morgue-amalloy-20160519-025133.txt 02:31:53 &dump amalloy 02:31:54 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/amalloy/amalloy.txt 02:31:58 probably what you want 02:32:04 he thought i was dead 02:32:05 the philistine 02:32:08 felids never die 02:32:21 well you were saved by xom 02:32:33 You are a level 18 summoner. You are 77% of the way to level 17. 02:33:02 ah yeah 02:33:05 totes not dead :) 02:33:22 I'm looking forward to some 0 str 02:33:23 I think go back to lair and grind a bit... 02:33:28 the thing is there's like nowhere left to grind safely for xp 02:33:41 this kitten is weak 02:34:26 wow, that play time 02:34:31 fifteen hours 02:34:42 !lg . won 1 02:34:43 1/58. amalloy the Sorcerer (L26 DEFE of Vehumet), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-08-24 07:58:17, with 1529992 points after 85337 turns and 1d+3:12:01. 02:34:58 well my first win took forever as well, but 02:35:02 15 hours for a 3-rune game... 02:35:14 i know, man. it's dreadful 02:35:16 !lg . won urune=3 max=dur 02:35:17 5. chequers the Executioner (L27 HOGl of Beogh), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2015-03-10 21:37:03, with 1838479 points after 57764 turns and 3:32:40. 02:35:20 this whole game i've had to play so slowly 02:35:24 !lg zxc won urune=3 max=dur 02:35:25 63. zzxc the Crack Shot (L25 CeHu of Okawaru), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-04-11 12:45:10, with 1511142 points after 81200 turns and 19:23:03. 02:35:30 !lg gammafunk won urune=3 max=dur 02:35:32 i think i'm going to take a break. you vultures will have to wait for your rip 02:35:32 40. gammafunk the Executioner (L27 DsDK of Yredelemnul), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2012-12-31 07:14:31, with 1296833 points after 124488 turns and 1d+0:09:59. 02:35:37 !lg demise won urune=3 max=dur 02:35:38 54. Demise the Slayer (L27 NaTm of Okawaru), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2015-09-06 12:12:58, with 1552320 points after 86114 turns and 5:40:51. 02:36:01 well demise can win 02:36:09 but I'm not sure max duration matters when you never win 02:36:25 don't worry man, you'll catch up to demise soon 02:36:42 you're in good company with zermako 02:37:06 and |amethyst 02:37:21 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:38:24 I haven't tried realtime crap since that ~ 2:45 one 02:38:30 keep meaning to get a low hour win 02:38:40 but I feel it's a thing I'll do once and get kind of bored with it 02:39:18 I need the the turncount hill of sisyphus 02:39:21 amalloy: :( 02:39:34 Tune in next time for the exciting conclusion! 02:39:36 yeah felid is very tedious to play 02:39:40 hrm 02:39:42 !lg . fe-- s=dur 02:39:43 2 games for zxc (fe--): 14:45:35, 9:32:05 02:39:43 !lg . fe won 02:39:44 fe is ambiguous: may be species or class. Use fe-- (Felid) or --fe (Fire Elementalist) to disambiguate 02:39:48 !lg . fe-- won 02:39:49 2. gammafunk the Ruinous (L27 FeCj of Vehumet), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2016-03-03 01:17:54, with 1397840 points after 137808 turns and 10:36:58. 02:39:54 that is pretty slow 02:39:55 playing it super safely takes such a long time 02:40:07 very slow for a 3-rune even for me, and I tend not to play fast 02:40:22 !lg demiseall fe-- won s=dur 02:40:22 2 games for demiseall (fe-- won): 2:36:45, 2:08:26 02:40:32 yeah I mean a febe would be pretty fast 02:40:38 my febe was 9h lol 02:40:43 all the conj targetting definitely slows you down 02:40:47 but not that much 02:40:53 yeah even for non-felids it does 02:40:55 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:40:58 I've not done fe melee and probably never will 02:41:05 well I could do a dragon cat I guess, but eh 02:41:07 !lg . won mage x=avg(dur) 02:41:08 25 games for zxc (won mage): avg(dur)=11:04:24 02:41:10 dragon pode more fun 02:41:12 !lg . won !mage x=avg(dur) 02:41:13 49 games for zxc (won !mage): avg(dur)=9:10:47 02:41:29 what about catlich 02:41:39 not a perfect query but immediately gets the point across 02:41:53 I'm not really trying for winrate like you are save past lair (when winrate is easy anyhow), but I tend to try out weird things or do streams 02:42:02 so it can be hard to win even sub 6 hours 02:42:47 .splatratio demise char!=mibe 02:42:48 % of xl17 chars killed char!=mibe: 36/104x Demise [34.62%] 02:42:54 geeze, that's pretty high 02:43:09 lose a bunch of chars trying to Play Fast 02:43:37 I guess it's balanced by each game taking less time 02:43:42 yeah, just compare his tourney profile with yermak 02:43:43 -!- insecticide has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:43:47 like 1/3 the game but 1/2 the total time heh 02:43:52 have you watched his youtube videos? sometimes he's reading the score screen at the end, just to figure out how he died 02:43:56 !lg demiseall year x=sum(dur) 02:43:57 841 games for demiseall (year): sum(dur)=20d+21:32:06 02:43:59 !gamesby yermak t 02:44:00 yermak (t) has played 60 games, between 2016-05-07 01:23:15 and 2016-05-22 16:45:03, won 30 (50.0%), high score 20329971, total score 117779953, total turns 2417050, play-time/day 11:49:11, total time 7d+21:07:02. 02:44:01 !gamesby demiseall t 02:44:02 demiseall (t) has played 144 games, between 2016-05-06 20:00:05 and 2016-05-22 19:17:07, won 30 (20.8%), high score 17915780, total score 84220369, total turns 4002629, play-time/day 6:35:14, total time 4d+15:59:07. 02:44:06 !lg . !gfspeed year x=sum(dur) 02:44:07 140 games for gammafunk (!gfspeed year): sum(dur)=12d+12:07:03 02:44:22 !lg . boring 02:44:22 7. zzxc the Slasher (L3 DsGl), quit the game on D:2 on 2015-01-27 17:24:12, with 46 points after 2240 turns and 0:07:08. 02:44:27 probably not a great comparison since he's doing challenge attempts like mibe realtime etc 02:44:30 gammafunk: who going for winrate would quit games :P 02:44:59 yeah if you are playing for such extreme realtime speed you have to sacrifice something 02:45:03 zxc: sorry, I don't believe you, I've seen the streak page! 02:45:28 !gameinfo zxc 02:45:30 zzxc the L27 TrAM^Oka in Depths:5 (cpo tiles), T:88711, runes: 3 (silver, gossamer, decaying), defenses: 35/16/25, stats: 30/9/21, >15 skills: Fighting,Armour,Dodging,Shields,Unarmed Combat 02:45:39 yeah 20d versus my 12d for non-speedruns 02:45:40 no not that one 02:45:41 and going for extreme safety you have to sac speed 02:45:43 the next one 02:45:46 unless you're like elliptic 02:45:48 so he's effectively playing at least as much as I ame 02:46:04 if not more 02:46:16 zxc: haven't started&parked the next character Just In Case of trolls? 02:46:22 !gamesby elliptic year 02:46:24 elliptic (year) has played 58 games, between 2015-04-29 14:27:33 and 2016-05-24 20:21:58, won 34 (58.6%), high score 13302255, total score 72761066, total turns 2672533, play-time/day 0:25:33, total time 6d+22:59:35. 02:46:34 fixit_friend: not sure what you mean, but I don't start a new char until I intend to actually play 02:46:36 numbers from my queries were t not year 02:46:36 wow playtime down to sub half-hour, wlel done 02:46:39 fwiw 02:46:49 no I was looking at my queries 02:47:10 t isn't indicative for total time played since he was playing way more than I was 02:47:11 ah, I thought the thing to do was start the next game, so that it was the next one counted for streak, so the streak can't be trolled 02:47:38 fixit_friend: I've registered on all servers so that can't happen, and also starting the next game doesn't lock it in - that's only for tournaments 02:47:51 !gamesby n1000 year 02:47:51 n1000 (year) has played 17 games, between 2015-10-17 00:29:45 and 2016-05-22 19:32:42, won 5 (29.4%), high score 14445512, total score 22533235, total turns 578948, play-time/day 0:11:53, total time 1d+19:25:39. 02:48:00 !gamesby . year 02:48:00 !gamesby . year 02:48:00 zxc (year) has played 11 games, between 2015-11-21 07:34:51 and 2016-04-08 12:06:39, won 11 (100.0%), high score 2179191, total score 17733558, total turns 1062265, play-time/day 0:34:05, total time 3d+7:32:54. 02:48:01 chequers (year) has played 956 games, between 2015-05-08 06:21:47 and 2016-05-24 12:08:59, won 7 (0.7%), high score 22490806, total score 109040947, total turns 6974819, play-time/day 0:42:25, total time 11d+6:47:19. 02:48:04 oh, I see. it seems like a good system 02:48:10 we're all casuals here 02:48:12 !gamesby . year !gfspeed 02:48:13 gammafunk (year !gfspeed) has played 140 games, between 2015-05-29 02:04:07 and 2016-05-23 06:17:01, won 28 (20.0%), high score 2844300, total score 50334749, total turns 3098461, play-time/day 0:49:52, total time 12d+12:07:03. 02:48:15 it is a good system 02:48:18 !gamesby . year 02:48:19 gammafunk (year) has played 762 games, between 2014-02-19 21:50:16 and 2016-05-23 06:17:01, won 29 (3.8%), high score 2844300, total score 59286314, total turns 5019357, play-time/day 0:40:27, total time 23d+4:22:25. 02:48:23 !seen floodkiller 02:48:23 I last saw Floodkiller at Sun May 8 23:37:50 2016 UTC (2w 2d 7h 10m 32s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: Page closed'. 02:48:26 er 02:48:32 i guess SSO isn't happening 02:48:45 he said he's going to start up on it now that t is done 02:48:51 !gamesby irc year 02:48:52 irc (year) has played 5343 games, between 2015-02-23 02:59:45 and 2016-05-25 05:48:14, won 407 (7.6%), high score 23414279, total score 2038369885, total turns 85351425, play-time/day 11:54:50, total time 227d+8:38:47. 02:49:05 irc? 02:49:06 oh yeah? 02:49:07 irc nick needs filling up 02:49:12 !nick irc 02:49:12 Mapping irc => zzxc rumpyflump mibe iafm bsdbeard koboldina namelastname112 mandevil hellmonk siepu kat 02:49:30 what on earth... 02:49:30 people who hang out on IRC a lot. 02:49:31 it's obviously That Other IRC 02:49:31 lol 02:49:39 we need the freenode nick 02:49:43 has every freenode user 02:49:55 !lg freenode 02:49:56 No games for freenode. 02:50:02 !lg irc 02:50:03 10113. koboldina the Skirmisher (L5 FoMo), blasted by Grinder (nerve-wracking pain) on D:4 on 2016-05-25 05:48:14, with 156 points after 3028 turns and 0:06:16. 02:50:17 hmm Fo can't even get paralysed by grinder 02:50:51 !abyssratio irc 02:50:54 irc has survived banishment 592 of 693 times: 85% 02:51:01 we're the best :D 02:51:02 !lairratio irc 02:51:10 irc has reached Lair in 1761 of 10113 attempts: 17% 02:51:13 !abyssratio . 02:51:15 oh that one is gonna be... yeah 02:51:15 gammafunk has survived banishment 55 of 72 times: 76% 02:51:18 !abyssratio . recent 02:51:19 rip irc 02:51:20 gammafunk (recent) has survived banishment 21.0 of 21 times: 100% 02:51:24 feels low yeah 02:51:26 !abyssratio 02:51:28 zxc has survived banishment 19 of 21 times: 90% 02:51:32 I hate the abyss 02:51:32 !abyssratio . recentish 02:51:34 gammafunk (recentish) has survived banishment 23 of 25 times: 92% 02:51:54 !larratio gammafunk 02:52:02 that's gotten low recently I think 02:52:06 !lairratio . recentish 02:52:08 feel free to add nicks to irc 02:52:09 gammafunk (recentish) has reached Lair in 216 of 1099 attempts: 20% 02:52:16 yeah I was start scumming 02:52:19 as it is right now it's not very useful with so few niccks 02:52:24 do I just capture people and add them? 02:52:29 !lairratio . recentish !t 02:52:32 gammafunk (recentish !t) has reached Lair in 203 of 1024 attempts: 20% 02:52:35 zxc: is that you who shows up in Demise videos sometimes? 02:52:39 !lairratio . recentish !t !gfspeed 02:52:40 gammafunk (recentish !t !gfspeed) has reached Lair in 34 of 110 attempts: 31% 02:52:41 *Demise's 02:52:49 interestings, still pretty low 02:52:55 n1: occasionally, but there's also ultraviolent4, megaslime, and one or two others 02:53:17 zxc: I was wondering if people would be interested in doing a tourney recap chat vid 02:53:33 maybe ping Demise_ 02:53:34 !lairratio . recent !t !gfspeed 02:53:36 gammafunk (recent !t !gfspeed) has reached Lair in 28 of 72 attempts: 39% 02:53:39 ah, the underscore 02:53:43 zxc is the decent one who shows up, yes. when zxc shows up, demise still talks about the game. when ultra shows up, demise's vocabulary only includes "meme" and "racist" 02:53:49 kills the videos :P 02:53:59 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.19-a0-264-gaf32591 02:54:15 yet I'm the 'meme king' go figure 02:54:24 just because I like tier lislts 02:54:29 my advice, don't use the internet 02:54:38 oall about the nicknames 02:54:38 full of crazy people 02:55:03 n1: tourney recap would be fun, I think people would be up for that 02:55:58 zxc: cool, well I'd be up for joining (you know, top team representative eh, eh) if you guys want! 02:56:17 !tell Demise_ n1 is a person who is wanting to be interviewing you 02:56:17 fixit_friend: OK, I'll let demise_ know. 02:56:27 wait wha 02:56:40 interview appeals to ego better than "chat" :D 02:56:45 yeah I've said before that more diversity in guests would be good, so I'd like to see you on :) 02:56:58 great, I think it would be fun 02:57:10 what time do you guys usually congregate? 02:57:37 usually now til now+6hrs 02:57:43 but i think demise & co are flexible 02:59:47 !lg elliptic uka 02:59:47 1. elliptic the Middleweight Champion (L27 GhAr of Ukayaw), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2016-05-24 20:21:58, with 1890644 points after 55579 turns and 3:48:14. 02:59:50 !lg elliptic uka -log 02:59:51 1. elliptic, XL27 GhAr, T:55579: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/elliptic/morgue-elliptic-20160524-202158.txt 03:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:12 how do you see tiktacy's total zig floors so far on this char? 03:02:52 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 03:03:07 read the morgue, if it's updated 03:03:15 or 03:03:20 !lm tiktacy x=zigdeepest 03:03:21 1482. [2016-05-25 07:00:22] [zigdeepest=27] Tiktacy the Farming Archmage (L27 DsBe of Qazlal) reached level 26 of a Ziggurat on turn 219530. (Zig:26) 03:03:32 x=zigscompleted as well 03:03:33 !lm tiktacy x=zigdeepest,zigscompleted 03:03:33 1482. [2016-05-25 07:00:22] [zigdeepest=27;zigscompleted=17] Tiktacy the Farming Archmage (L27 DsBe of Qazlal) reached level 26 of a Ziggurat on turn 219530. (Zig:26) 03:03:46 so 17*27+26 03:04:01 got it 03:05:20 woah is the double sword artifact icon new? 03:05:22 it's deadly 03:06:48 do non-beogh orc allies level up? (eg merc card) 03:10:07 merc allies can level a bit 03:10:16 the polearm one served me pretty well 03:11:28 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:11:45 -!- Witidek has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 03:12:49 chequers: yes, but not most undeads 03:16:01 -!- edsrzf has joined ##crawl-dev 03:16:45 -!- minqmay has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:17:55 -!- minmay has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:23:47 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.19-a0-264-gaf32591 (34) 03:24:19 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:41:21 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:47:33 -!- enggliikl has joined ##crawl-dev 03:47:54 -!- enggliikl has quit [Client Quit] 03:54:18 -!- LMtx has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:06 -!- eb_ has quit [] 04:21:10 -!- buki_ is now known as buki 04:24:35 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:32:05 -!- _fortis has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:33:14 @??torpor snail 04:33:14 torpor snail (03w) | Spd: 7 | HD: 10 | HP: 48-70 | AC/EV: 8/1 | Dam: 25 | amphibious | Res: 06magic(40), 12drown | XP: 424 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 04:34:46 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 04:36:31 -!- mibe has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:40:12 @fixit_friend those vids are filler because I can't record otherwise durin the tournament, if you don't like them that's unforunate but really unavoidable 04:40:12 Demise_: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 04:40:32 also, fun fact, that was among the first few times I've ever spoken to the guy 04:40:45 !messages 04:40:46 (1/1) fixit_friend said (1h 44m 28s ago): n1 is a person who is wanting to be interviewing you 04:42:09 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:45:39 -!- Hoglob has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:56:05 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:24 -!- Zargon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:05:15 -!- sage1234 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:07:30 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:08:22 .ocs -tv 05:08:23 39. andaisq, XL9 MiFi, T:6319 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 05:15:16 -!- FunkyBomb has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:18:16 -!- neongrey has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:25:41 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:29:58 -!- Denapoli has quit [] 05:44:39 -!- lordfrikk has joined ##crawl-dev 05:53:19 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:59:51 -!- Laptop_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:09:14 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:14:35 -!- nezrel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:15:14 Ancestor stays with you even after leaving Korpiklaani(can't spell it's name) 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10442 by Ololoev 06:16:03 -!- edsrzf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:20:14 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 06:21:29 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 06:23:48 Korpiklaani! 06:24:10 I think I like that name more 06:25:40 isn't that a metal band? 06:25:57 I don't know, is it? 06:26:08 I guess it is 06:26:27 I don't like that name anymore then, I thought it was unique 06:26:44 zxc: yes, a folk metal 06:27:35 band from Lahti 06:31:39 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:50:38 -!- Reverie has joined ##crawl-dev 07:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:09:14 -!- Reverie has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 07:11:50 Zombie monkey tile 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10443 by Shard1697 07:12:24 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:19:11 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 07:21:27 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 07:36:46 -!- zxc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:38:44 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 07:41:49 !lg . won / !won 07:41:49 0/1 game for lordfrikk (won): N=0/1 (0.00%) 07:42:18 !lg . won 07:42:19 1. lordfrikk the Archmage (L27 HECj of Vehumet), escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2013-06-16 19:34:21, with 1742747 points after 146832 turns and 16:15:56. 07:42:26 !lg . won / died 07:42:27 0/1 game for lordfrikk (won): N=0/1 (0.00%) 07:42:41 !lg . won / dying 07:42:41 0/1 game for lordfrikk (won): N=0/1 (0.00%) 07:42:55 !lg . HECj / won 07:42:55 1/28 games for lordfrikk (HECj): N=1/28 (3.57%) 07:43:18 !lg . dying 07:43:19 403. lordfrikk the Crack Shot (L18 CeHu of Okawaru), slain by a frost giant (a +1 battleaxe of freezing) (kmap: shoals_iceberg_rune) on Shoals:3 on 2016-05-16 00:26:01, with 212277 points after 45598 turns and 6:36:07. 07:43:24 !lg . dying / won 07:43:25 0/403 games for lordfrikk (dying): N=0/403 (0.00%) 07:43:34 !lg . dying / win 07:43:34 0/403 games for lordfrikk (dying): N=0/403 (0.00%) 07:43:45 !won 07:43:46 lordfrikk has won once in 418 games (0.24%): 1xHECj 07:44:12 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:44:57 what kind of issue could cause my last game on cbro to not appear? 07:47:56 -!- debo has quit [Quit: orb spiders :(] 07:54:01 lordfrikk: it seems to be in, or do you have two online wins? 07:55:07 it's not a win yet, but it doesn't appear at all... if you look at cbro my game is there now in progress 07:55:43 !stalk lordfrikk 07:55:45 lordfrikk the L17 MiBe^Trog in Shoals:1 (cbro tiles), T:36911, runes: 1 (gossamer), defenses: 28/10/0, stats: 26/4/16, >15 skills: Axes,Armour 07:56:10 it appears here but on on the listing http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/lordfrikk.html 07:56:30 not on the* 07:57:03 maybe it was changed later but i remember games appearing on the CAO listing shortly after being started 07:59:54 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:02:52 -!- Dracunos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:02:52 -!- Dracunos7 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:06:03 -!- Demise_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:06:32 is there a way to tell the piety cost of an ability? 08:17:13 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:23:50 -!- Furril has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:25:40 <|amethyst> lordfrikk: I believe only ongoing games on CAO are shown 08:25:53 <|amethyst> lordfrikk: games on other servers only show up when you die 08:26:14 <|amethyst> lordfrikk: this is different from the tournament pages, which might be what you were thinking of 08:26:19 I see, that could be it 08:26:51 earlier I was playing on CDO at it always showed up IIRC 08:29:57 -!- Haitch has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:30:07 it's probably just CAO and CDO that show up on there 08:30:25 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:33:10 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:34:05 -!- Arglure has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:34:29 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:34:48 <|amethyst> !lm * cdo alive 08:34:52 874. [2016-05-25 12:26:47] Svalbardcaretaker the Cudgeler (L5 OgHu of Okawaru) became a worshipper of Okawaru on turn 2105. (D:3) 08:36:11 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 08:39:38 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:47:44 -!- Mekire has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:49:31 -!- Dracunos has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:52:20 zxc: perhaps just a historical thing (these are the two oldest servers) 08:54:03 yeah I would think that it was coded into the scoreboard website 08:54:15 way back 08:55:23 chequers and I plan on having something similar on the new scoreboard but for all servers, and links to char dumps and to watch the game on webtiles etc 08:55:25 <|amethyst> it uses .where files, which aren't downloaded from the other servers 08:55:44 <|amethyst> or from CDO as far as I can tell 08:57:44 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:58:53 -!- Grivan has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:59:30 zxc: is this related to single log-in? 09:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:33 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:10 dpeg: I don't think so 09:07:56 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 09:09:28 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:10:55 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:13:06 I see, thanks for the explanation 09:13:19 it's not important at all but sure I a nice feature to have 09:13:33 -!- Lightli_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:13:50 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:14:02 -!- grisha5 has quit [Client Quit] 09:24:00 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 09:30:06 -!- zxc has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:32:21 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:39:59 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 09:40:06 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 09:40:35 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:41:34 -!- Lightli_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:46:06 -!- Lightli_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:51 -!- MgDark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:48:30 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:54:05 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 09:56:23 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:56:44 -!- Lightli_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:58:44 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 09:59:31 -!- Reverie has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:07:48 -!- PsyMar has quit [Quit: witty quit message goes here] 10:08:26 -!- mibe has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:09:20 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:13:46 -!- removeelyvilon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:26:35 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 10:29:46 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 10:33:03 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:33:46 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 10:33:54 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 10:35:41 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:31 -!- LexAckson__ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:43:12 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:43:49 -!- breadbocks has quit [] 10:46:28 -!- ada482 has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 10:47:06 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:52:42 -!- Dracunos7 is now known as Dracunos 10:54:20 <|amethyst> a CYC post points out the EH targetting restrictions (there are probably others too) leaks information about monster jewewllery 10:55:31 <|amethyst> create a monster with a ring of rC and EH will give you the "(not susceptible)" annotation 10:55:44 <|amethyst> (and will start centred on you) 10:56:40 -!- johnstein has quit [Excess Flood] 10:56:53 <|amethyst> xv does not say it's resistant to cold, but desc_success_chance does, despite both getting a monster_info 10:56:54 -!- johnstein has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:10 <|amethyst> ohh 10:57:20 <|amethyst> targetter_beam::affects_monster 10:57:34 <|amethyst> specifically has an XXX comment saying it does that 10:57:48 <|amethyst> because it picks up the monster_at(mon.pos) rather than relying on the monster_info 10:58:05 -!- Sonderblade has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:58:34 <|amethyst> the simplest solution I guess would be to make a copy of bolt::is_harmless that takes a monster_info rather than a monster 11:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:43 <|amethyst> or, get rid of the monster* version, since bolt::is_harmless is used only for things that depend on player knowledge (targetting, and handle_stop_attack_prompt) 11:01:28 <|amethyst> ah, I see, nasty_to is used in more places 11:01:34 -!- nezrel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:03:53 you could just let enemy items (non-artefact) be ided to the player 11:04:13 <|amethyst> what about artefacts? 11:04:42 well that's so rare anyway 11:05:03 monster has an artefact ring with rC+ and you happen to want to use EH on it and notice the info leak 11:06:11 can just make all items IDed always 11:06:19 would solve a lot of issues :P 11:06:28 that's totally the direction I was heading in 11:14:07 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:17:28 elliptic: sacrifice gameplay to make code easier? 11:18:20 dpeg: I'm not certain it would be worse gameplay 11:18:48 elliptic: you would identify everything, from turn 1? 11:19:02 you can compensate by lowering consumable droprates in early D 11:19:07 to simulate use-id 11:19:25 zxc: this is not the entire point... we just had a long thread about this on the forum 11:20:13 As I see it, the early game gets actual decisions (and not just item loss) from id. It could easily be that for elliptic all these decisions are solved and hence trivial, and I'm chasing a design dragon that's long dead. This is why I am asking. 11:21:29 one time I got two rings of the same type before I ided remove curse, and as it's extremely rare to find two of the same bad ring in two floors I reasoned it was safe to wield (it turned out to be MR+) 11:21:37 dpeg: I wasn't entirely serious with my comment and haven't thought hard about this recently, but I do think that the ID game has a real cost in the amount of player time it consumes on routine actions, especially later on 11:22:31 I think there is some small gain as well with some interesting decisions (mainly early game), but I don't know if it is necessarily worth it 11:23:47 -!- Rust3dCor3 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:23:53 elliptic: there was some interesting idea in that thread: we could disable the id game later on. 11:24:03 btw, even if we were to remove ID, we could still leave items unIDed until the player picks them up if we wanted to make floor loot more exciting 11:24:30 yeah, making everything IDed later on but not at the start is also possible - I've played games that did that 11:24:38 elliptic: do the Crawl forks do it like this? I think both Crawl Light and DCSS-CA do away with id? 11:24:38 could tie it to having a rune, say 11:24:44 exactly 11:24:47 I don't know much about the crawl forks 11:24:56 it can still be interesting to see ided floor loot: should I risk waking up the adder by going for the heal potion or should I avoid the area? 11:24:57 me neither, someone should play them and tell us about it :) 11:25:08 zxc: that's certainly true 11:25:11 zxc: but you have exactly that as soon as !hw is identified 11:25:58 you have to go through the ID process though to reach that 11:26:07 That came up a lot in the thread: with pre-identified items, I have more choices, because of "do I want to use my one !might right now?". But that's the type of decisions you carry out all game. Early game has some other types of choices, I like that. 11:26:27 most players have a rule of some kind for IDing their items and they don't stray far from that, and sometimes just forget to ID items entirely 11:26:49 So my reply is: by pre-id, you establish the Crawl-standard choice, but you get rid of other decisions. To me, a loss (this is subjective, of course). 11:27:42 zxc: another way to see this: I am all about depth (I'm a Go player). If you make mistakes in your id game, then that's good for game depth. If you have solved "how to use consumables properly", then game depth in Crawl with pre-id goes down. 11:28:28 The *real* questions are, imo: is there an ideal id algorithm? (If so, that'd be bad for my point. Ideally, it would depend on circumstances.) 11:29:29 well I think it's best to go back to the previous floor (or just to the staircase if you are safe-ish) every time you find a second unid scroll of the same type 11:29:35 and then read-id it 11:30:00 I think this is slightly tedious but is better than the usual "play several floors then read all your scrolls" 11:30:08 -!- Lasty has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:30:38 this is not what you were asking about dpeg but it's another small consideration 11:31:26 zxc: if we didn't have ?id, then it has to be like this. But we have, so it should matter for you? 11:31:32 zxc: yeah, the "go back to previous floor to read-ID" thing is pretty annoying 11:31:41 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:31:55 This is done for teleportation and noise? 11:31:57 since you should basically always do that on every char 11:32:12 dpeg: yeah 11:32:25 noise is bad on the new floor, but mapping is good; teleportation is OK so long as you are on the stairs or on a cleared floor 11:32:31 but wouldn't it be even better to read-id on a < staircase? For mapping. 11:32:53 sometimes you do that, yes 11:33:45 not sure I can do something about teleport, but noise shouldn't force tedious gameplay, it's a negative item 11:34:06 removing noise would help a bit if that is what you mean 11:34:24 that helps the whole carrying around noise for mesm thing 11:34:26 since then if you have IDed ?tele then you could just read-ID wherever pretty much 11:35:54 as for an ideal ID algorithm, I am guessing there is none as it ought to depend on the situation, but most players go by reading scrolls and IDing potions 11:36:05 elliptic: yes, I mean that 11:36:08 I recall mikee used ID on scrolls first and that's also what I do 11:36:11 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:37:05 zxc: the decisions I speak about come up when you have some ?id and lots of unidentified items. For me, depending on power level of my character, I'll do potions or scrolls or (attack) wands. 11:37:25 yeah those decisions are nice 11:37:34 that crops up around the start of lair I think 11:37:38 or a bit sooner 11:38:17 I have a feeling that there could be a lot more along these directions, but I seem to be the only one investigating that :) 11:38:57 I tend to like IDing wands 11:43:51 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:44:22 -!- zxc_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:44:22 dpeg: btw, another option is to make equipment auto-ID but leave consumables the way they are 11:44:28 internet dropped out -_- 11:45:06 since most equipment is pretty bad to ID 11:45:23 (as you can just try it on) 11:45:35 elliptic: yes, this is also true 11:45:36 -!- zxc has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:46:06 I recently had this crazy idea, never aired, so no guarantees (100% dpeg wackiness): we could make all jewellery items fragile (or, more conservatively, a subset). 11:46:26 it would be nice if the game displayed which enemies have wands (before they zap them) 11:46:26 This has various ramifications, some of them on id. 11:47:23 -!- MadCoyote is now known as FunkyBomb 11:50:59 dpeg: I don't really like the design of fragile property - it adds some decisions (at least in theory) but it also makes finding cool new items less exciting for the player if they can't just try it out without a permanent cost 11:51:53 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:53:01 it is okay to have this sort of thing in small amount (Ash cursing, "faith) but I wouldn't want it to be a major part of the game 11:53:07 -!- mzmz has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4] 11:57:13 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:57:48 -!- Jessika has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:11 ok! 12:00:16 if it's preid'd fragile would be a little better 12:00:30 wheals: yes, I agree with that. 12:01:06 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:01:34 -!- flappity has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:47 -!- implementhepl has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:33 -!- stickyfingers has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:20:57 Something completely different: would people be opposed to replacing drowning instadeaths by something harsh, but not instant? (So you can teleport/blink, and live.) 12:23:35 that sounds like a good idea 12:23:45 That sholdn't happen terribly often anymore since you can't stumble into deep water while confused anymore 12:23:51 and that one damn card got fixed 12:23:53 twice 12:24:46 flying near deep water / lava gives me panic attacks 12:24:54 unless Gr/Te 12:25:00 !lg * t ckiller=water s=xl 12:25:01 32 games for * (t ckiller=water): 7x 7, 5x 27, 3x 13, 3x 8, 3x 11, 2x 16, 2x 20, 9, 5, 19, 12, 17, 14, 6 12:25:07 !lg * t ckiller=water s=place 12:25:08 32 games for * (t ckiller=water): 9x Sewer, 4x Coc:7, 2x Lair:4, 2x Shoals:4, D:6, D:12, IceCv, Swamp:1, Lair:3, Spider:1, D:11, D:10, Bailey, Shoals:1, D:4, D:5, D:9, D:7, Pan 12:26:13 !lg * t ckiller=lava 12:26:15 4. melon the Severer (L12 MiBe of Trog), took a swim in molten lava in Volcano (volcano_tomb) on 2016-05-22 14:18:12, with 26136 points after 10964 turns and 0:40:20. 12:26:41 apptly named volcano 12:27:01 !lg * t ckiller=water place=sewer s=map 12:27:03 9 games for * (t ckiller=water place=sewer): 6x sewer_minmay_treatment, 2x sewer_fruit_machine, sewer_kobolds 12:27:15 !vault sewer_minmay_treatment 12:27:16 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/sewer.des#l336 12:28:01 dpeg: https://youtu.be/-Uo-loi89lk?t=1006 relevant (and really funny) but shows how overly punishing deep water is 12:28:29 !lg * t ckiller=water place=sewer map~~treatment -tv 12:28:30 6. ehddnr3551, XL6 TrFi, T:2792 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 12:28:41 !lg * t ckiller=water place=sewer map~~treatment !cwz -tv 12:28:43 5. powermac, XL7 MiFi, T:4197 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 12:30:04 approximately as expected 12:30:19 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:30:41 I wonder how many of the other water deaths are like this too - vaults placing large amounts of water with nothing behind them and players feeling the need to explore 12:31:17 that seems not as bad as the surprising deaths like in that video however 12:31:42 I suppose you'd had to get petrified while flying over water? Lom Lobon? Mayyyybeee??? 12:31:50 have* 12:32:11 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 12:32:21 zxc_: I have no idea what is happening in that video because tiles 12:32:27 elliptic: :( 12:32:49 can footv it 12:32:55 wait no it was SP :( 12:33:06 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 12:33:32 he is just tabbing enemies with zero risk, then gets to the part of the vault where a draconian is behind one tile of deep water and decides to quaff flight to kill them 12:33:45 purple drac breath? 12:33:46 and one of the draconians is purple and dispels flight causing instadeath 12:34:10 it isn't actually instadeath, you get a turn (and a -more- iirc) 12:34:56 actually that's true 12:35:05 I had to watch it in 0.25 to pick that up 12:35:53 I agree it might be better if falling into deep water wasn't immediate death, but I'm not sure what the penalties should be 12:36:02 even so, a small lapse of focus causing instadeath is overly harsh 12:36:51 and I think that players killing themselves trying to explore early vaults with !flight is a problem regardless 12:38:56 hm, what if temporary flight just never ended while above deep water? once the duration ends, flight ends as soon as you move to a square where you can land 12:40:12 seems abusable but preferable to the current 12:41:10 -!- implementhepl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:41:14 you could use one flight pot to explore each shoals floor 12:41:24 that might not be a bad thing though... 12:42:16 maybe, though fighting solely on deep water is a cost (and sirens might force you to leave) 12:42:27 I'm not sure exactly how it would play 12:42:33 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 12:42:37 hm, if it runs out while you're over deep water then getting hit by anything shoves you backwards? 12:42:53 what? 12:43:02 *what if 12:43:24 that sounds a bit weird and possibly more abusable 12:43:55 !flight isn't super common so I'm not too concerned about people being able to use it for longer in shoals anyway 12:45:34 oh, does lom still drown players with tornado? 12:45:37 sorry, kids & dinner 12:45:51 that was really stupid, I forget whether anything was done about it 12:46:04 but that would be covered by this as well 12:46:11 !lg * t ckiller=water place=pan 12:46:12 1. TittyCrusher the Middleweight Champion (L27 FoFi of Cheibriados), drowned in Pandemonium (lom_lobon_grunt_wind_tunnels) on 2016-05-12 01:49:30, with 936040 points after 64606 turns and 5:19:02. 12:46:13 * geekosaur wonders how hard it would be for expired tempflight to make the player act like they're in shallow water (except amphibians who act like they're on land)? 12:46:31 that is, no water bonus for Mf/Op 12:46:38 !lg * t ckiller=water place=pan -tv 12:46:39 1. TittyCrusher, XL27 FoFi, T:64606 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 12:47:02 -!- JoeMaro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:48:32 yeah, you can still be drowned by tornado without getting a prompt 12:49:02 that player seemed aware of the danger as well 12:49:06 yes 12:50:25 hm, if we wanted a penalty for expired temporary flight while unable to land then we could use vertigo 12:50:51 ??vertigo 12:50:52 vertigo[1/1]: A short-lived status (3-6 turns) caused by wearing amulets of dismissal. The effect is about the same as wearing heavier armour: decreased EV, increased spellcasting failure, and decreased accuracy. 12:51:20 that would probably be enough to discourage trying to fight entire shoals levels with one !flight 12:51:33 -!- Naruni has joined ##crawl-dev 12:51:36 hello 12:51:51 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:51:54 what i wanted to try implementing was each turn moving towards land (you can't take any actions during it) 12:52:12 'float' in the water towards land? 12:52:20 i guess swapping places with monsters if they're in the way 12:52:26 something like that 12:52:46 wheals: and lava? 12:52:54 yeh, vertigo sounds like what I was shooting for with my suggestion 12:53:01 i mean that could be the same thing 12:53:08 replace all lava with deep water :) 12:53:11 elliptic: i saw your comments about Fragile yesterday 12:53:11 PleasingFungus: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 12:53:14 or plus damage 12:53:34 PleasingFungus: by yesterday you mean an hour ago? 12:53:37 elliptic: were you specifically objecting to 'fragile on random jewellery', or the property in general? 12:53:39 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:53:39 er, o 12:53:41 *no 12:53:43 I haven't seen that yet 12:53:46 uh 12:53:51 are you sure 12:54:03 since that sounds like what I said an hour ago 12:54:06 11:50:59 dpeg: I don't really like the design of fragile property - it adds some decisions (at least in theory) but it also makes finding cool new items less exciting for the player if they can't just try it out without a permanent cost 12:54:12 yes, that was an hour ago :P 12:54:16 hrm 12:54:24 v0v 12:54:37 logs are hard 12:55:11 -!- lordfrikk has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:55:24 PleasingFungus: anyway, as I said on the next line I think it is okay to have this sort of thing in small quantity, so I don't mind the (rare) randart property existing 12:55:28 -!- lordfrikk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:57 though I also don't find it hugely interesting 12:56:01 ok. i've had some very strange conversations with players who are specifically hostile to fragile, as opposed to something like *contam or *drain 12:56:08 and i was worried that you were going down the same road 12:56:22 elliptic is a good guy!!1! 12:56:26 i would not dispute that :) 12:56:42 so he wouldn't babble nonsense like the unwashed masses! 12:57:06 anyway, gotta go dancing now, will bring up anti-drown another time, unless you guys do something about it :) 12:57:09 PleasingFungus: yeah, I don't find those properties that interesting either :) but I don't intrinsically hate such things existing 12:57:32 well, the idea is to try a number of bad randart properties, and see how it goes 12:59:10 I just think that players should mostly have freedom to try out items that they find without serious consequences 12:59:50 restrict fragile to certain unrands :) 12:59:56 that's also an argument against the existence of curses, right? 13:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:09 git rebase --interactive ID^ does that ID^ refer to the id of master that i branched off or the commit i'm rebasing from? 13:00:26 PleasingFungus: well, one ?removecurse is not a serious consequence generally 13:01:04 depends if you're on d:2 with a tele ring or not :) 13:01:05 elliptic: yes. But on the other hand: decisions! 13:01:07 does inacc still exist? 13:01:11 yes 13:01:15 perhaps I should have said long-term serious consequences 13:01:16 good 13:01:31 Drain doesn't have long-term serious consequences 13:01:33 unless you die 13:01:51 losing significant piety (faith), running out of ?rcurse (Ash), losing access to good items (Fragile) 13:02:30 yeah, that's why I didn't mention *Drain earlier - it really does very little even in the short term 13:02:31 what if removing faith 'drained' your piety, which restored with xp? 13:02:47 I guess piety does that in general for most gods 13:03:32 (to be clear, I don't mind how "faith works currently since it is just one item and also gives you long-term benefits) 13:04:25 Hrm. That sounds like *Drain should be buffed, tbh 13:04:42 yet every now and then on ##crawl you hear about someone who drained themselves to 0 skills :P 13:04:56 only two days ago there was someone 13:04:57 Naruni, context? normally it's the thing you want to pull updates from, which presumably is master in this case 13:05:33 zxc_: well, they aren't doing that with *Drain I assume 13:05:36 zxc_: discussion is the *Drain randart property, not the general concept of skill draining 13:05:38 elliptic: hi.... 13:05:46 ahh right 13:05:54 but in general I think people are more afraid of skill drain than they should be 13:06:00 geekosaur, i think ive figured it out http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1186535/how-to-modify-a-specified-commit-in-git 13:06:04 maybe it is because I've played a lot of Ru 13:06:08 im just gonna give it a go and see what happens 13:06:19 PleasingFungus: I think the *Drain amount could be increased, yeah 13:06:49 * geekosaur has been known to copy his repo at this point, mistakes can be fixed by erasing the broken repo and copying the copy back >.> 13:07:01 lmao 13:07:03 (as long as you haven't pushed anything upstream) 13:07:11 -!- jefus- has joined ##crawl-dev 13:07:27 I do think *Drain is better design than *Contam - less random and you can't get around it with !cancellation to cure contam 13:07:58 *Contam is incredibly variable in how bad it is if you aren't using !cancellation 13:08:08 [m@ornage source]$ git rebase --interactive 'a62d224^' 13:08:08 fatal: Needed a single revision 13:08:08 invalid upstream a62d224^ 13:08:13 that's strange 13:08:14 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:08:21 it feels a little odd to have both *contam and *drain 13:08:28 as properties 13:08:40 it feels like they fill pretty much the same space, moreso even than they do with *fragile 13:08:45 yes 13:08:58 ??*contam 13:08:58 *contam[1/1]: An artefact property which contaminates you when you unequip the item in question. 13:09:30 Naruni: what happens if you type 'git log a62d224'? 13:10:55 -!- jeefus has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:11:13 geekosaur, unknown revision or path not in working tree, yet 'git log' shows commit a62d24cacd0969b20558b63cf8e4c5048bc54967 as the second entry 13:11:48 oh thats fucking why 13:11:48 look closely at the commit hash 13:11:48 i hate hangovers 13:12:22 also I think you meant pf there :p 13:12:33 fungosaur 13:12:51 d224 13:13:16 seeing double :p 13:18:13 finally finishing up with logs: I quite like 'flight never expires over deep water/lava' 13:18:44 i think that's better than both status quo and the other anti-drowning proposals i've seen 13:19:04 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:19:15 PleasingFungus, could that be exploitable? 13:19:46 probably! are you thinking of anything in particular? 13:20:17 standing on a lava tile and hurling objects/spells at bad guys when fly should be expiring 13:20:50 can already do that with permaflight sources or by standing behind the lava (if there is room there) 13:21:20 also we could add a penalty (I suggested vertigo earlier) for continuing to fly after the duration ends 13:21:30 make potion of flight permanent until you change floor :) 13:21:34 vertigo really catching on... 13:21:45 elliptic: are you going with vertigo specifically for flavor 13:21:48 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.19-a0-264-gaf32591 (34) 13:21:49 :p 13:21:51 vertigo for continuing is awesome idea IMO 13:22:08 PleasingFungus: I don't actually really know what it does, so yes :P but any minor penalty would be fine (or even no penalty I think would be okay) 13:22:12 lmao 13:22:22 ??vertigo 13:22:23 vertigo[1/1]: A short-lived status (3-6 turns) caused by wearing amulets of dismissal. The effect is about the same as wearing heavier armour: decreased EV, increased spellcasting failure, and decreased accuracy. 13:22:28 ^ my total knowledge 13:22:47 i remember there being objections at the time it was added, re, "this is basically drain" 13:22:56 "except sort of roundabout" 13:23:05 not a big deal tho 13:23:35 we'll need to handle flight-capable forms as well as the Flight status 13:23:40 hrm 13:23:48 let me think for a sec, there's something about forms and drowning 13:24:15 PleasingFungus: ideally this would apply to all methods of drowning 13:24:22 how many others are there? 13:24:42 wrt forms: dragonform, wispform, batform, possibly iceform 13:24:42 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:58 I forget how forms expiring works currently 13:25:00 i think iceform lets you float across deep water right now? 13:25:16 same as flying - gives you an extra turn & warning to try to reduce instadeaths 13:25:22 ah 13:25:29 applies to all forms, since trying to untangle which forms are relevant is a nightmare 13:25:47 but it might be simpler with this proposal 13:26:11 PleasingFungus: yeah, could let the form end and leave the player with 0 duration temporary flight 13:26:25 weird to go from ice beast to flying 13:26:43 could rename expired flight to 'Floating' 13:26:49 haha 13:26:54 and then get airstruck! 13:27:01 airstricken 13:27:02 PleasingFungus, http://pastie.org/10852294 is that the proper formatting/indentation for that line? 13:27:13 airstrike'd 13:27:14 Naruni: reasonable! 13:28:45 <|amethyst> we probably need to develop some style guidelines for lambdas 13:29:00 <|amethyst> there's no consistency at all currently, even among things added by the same programmer 13:29:04 -!- Harudoku has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:31:11 wallowing? 13:31:21 will someone remove the patch from 10317? i have an updated patch file. 13:31:59 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:32:23 just attach the new one, I think 13:33:15 it says duplicate file, i guess i could just call it version 2 or something 13:36:52 -!- Nattefrost has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:38:37 <|amethyst> some crawl fanfic, not of the usual kind 13:38:38 <|amethyst> https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/4l0ao1/you_open_your_eyes_and_all_you_see_is/ 13:38:48 i love fanfic 13:40:03 hrm 13:40:16 |amethyst: i'm not sure how we'd handle the citation for 10441 13:40:24 though i do think it's a more appropriate quote than the one we have 13:46:01 i can't figure out how to rest through lua 13:46:32 Lua Can Never Rest 13:46:37 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: it's a bit weird too, because it wasn't in the main body of Burton's translation, but rather a supplement 13:46:45 huh! 13:47:06 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: it first appeared in the 18th century in a French translation 13:47:28 elliptic: putting in `crawl.process_keys("s")` in the lua console isn't spending a turn for me; do you have any idea what's going on? 13:48:25 wheals: not sure, I've never really used the lua console 13:48:55 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.19-a0-265-g782a0d5: Remove Hep's Felid ban 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/782a0d5d3e2b 13:48:55 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.19-a0-266-ga12d01c: Improve Hep descriptions 10(11 minutes ago, 2 files, 23+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a12d01c0075b 13:48:55 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.19-a0-267-gfe51963: Howler monkey zombie tile (10443) 10(50 seconds ago, 3 files, 5+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fe519636082b 13:50:24 how do i bind a key to a lua function again 13:50:31 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: perhaps -“Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves", _The Supplemental Nights to the Thousand Nights and a Night_ trans. Sir Richard F. Burton. 1888. 13:50:31 ===function_name 13:50:37 (macro to that) 13:50:54 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 13:51:02 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: hm 13:51:36 wheals: how do you get the lua console again? 13:51:42 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: arguably he could be described as an editor instead 13:51:54 in wizmode, you can use &*U 13:52:07 you can also bind it to a key (it's unbound by default) 13:52:09 http://pastie.org/10852315 line 37 i'm getting back an item_def*, but there's something wrong with line 98, the wrong potion on the floor is getting quantity reduced 13:52:38 <|amethyst> Naruni: it's not dec_mitm_item_quantity(potion->link, 1); 13:52:47 <|amethyst> Naruni: it should be potion->index() instead 13:52:52 ok yeah waiting works like this 13:53:05 <|amethyst> Naruni: for floor items, potion->link is the index of the *next* item on the floor 13:53:07 |amethyst, huh, ok 13:53:21 <|amethyst> Naruni: (yes, it has a completely different meaning between floor and inventory items) 13:53:31 well ok then, thanks :) 13:53:35 for some reason it just doesn't work with the console 13:54:16 item_use.cc:1886:48: error: invalid use of non-static member function ‘int item_def::index() const’ 13:54:16 dec_mitm_item_quantity(potion->index, 1); 13:54:28 <|amethyst> read what I wrote again 13:55:19 <|amethyst> index is a method, not a data member 13:55:20 wheals: yeah, that is a bit mysterious... crawl.process_keys("o") works in console 13:57:07 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.19-a0-268-g684708a: Hep specialization message: s/can/may 10(3 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/684708a88783 13:57:07 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.19-a0-269-g27098ee: Hep specialization force-more (World Famous W) 10(67 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/27098eeb86ed 13:57:41 <|amethyst> oh, err 13:57:52 <|amethyst> wheals: I think there is an even bigger and more important bug here 13:57:59 <|amethyst> wheals: let me verify 13:58:08 does it allow for 0-turn victories? :) 13:58:38 <|amethyst> I think so, yes 13:58:42 ! 13:59:03 <|amethyst> if you do from &^U crawl.process_keys("u") it first looks like nothing happens 13:59:07 finally, the era of the TAS is at hand 13:59:25 <|amethyst> if you do other commands from the same &^U you get "repl:1: Cannot currently process new keys (turn is over)" 13:59:32 <|amethyst> but if you hit escape, the command is executed 13:59:33 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:59:42 <|amethyst> without incrementing time, and without giving monsters a chance to respond 14:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:06 <|amethyst> hmm 14:01:15 <|amethyst> actually, it looks like it does increment time, sometimes? 14:01:40 <|amethyst> hm 14:01:44 <|amethyst> maybe that was my error 14:02:21 <|amethyst> oh 14:02:24 <|amethyst> it seems to be working normally now 14:02:29 -!- nikheizen has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:47 |amethyst: uh, I don't fully understand what you are doing, but for me it looks like I can just do &^U crawl.process_keys("u") and then it moves (without incrementing time) before I press escape 14:02:47 <|amethyst> I guess my first attempt, which was in a wizmode game, must have had wizard time stop enabled 14:03:10 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.19-a0-270-g65c8ce1: Handle an implausible Hep corner case 10(48 seconds ago, 1 file, 9+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/65c8ce1f93fa 14:03:23 <|amethyst> elliptic: yeah, when I'm trying it in non-wizard mode now, it works as you describe, and then time increments when it hit 14:03:43 time didn't increment for me though 14:03:52 <|amethyst> elliptic: even when you leave the console? 14:03:55 yeah 14:04:11 wheals: ...you kept 'can't spell its name'? 14:04:24 i thought it was funny 14:04:27 well 14:04:29 yeah, i do too 14:04:37 (|amethyst: this is in wizmode though) 14:04:39 and it explains the text of the issue for future people 14:05:15 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:34 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 14:06:55 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 14:08:07 -!- Harudoku has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:09:08 god_name() { case GOD_HEPLIAKLQANA: return !one_chance_in(100) ? "Hepliaklqana" : "Korpiklaani" 14:09:13 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.19-a0-269-g27098ee (34) 14:09:18 |amethyst: it does seem to work properly in non-wizmode though 14:09:20 as you said 14:09:37 oh 14:09:49 I bet it is because wizmode commands usually don't take a player turn 14:09:56 03wheals02 07* 0.19-a0-271-g1035a83: Don't waste turns/food by channeling when at max MP. 10(3 minutes ago, 2 files, 27+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1035a83d022a 14:10:02 ??todo gods 14:10:02 missing gods[1/1]: HIUW 14:10:09 !learn e missing_gods s/H// 14:10:09 missing gods[1/1]: IUW 14:10:12 !learn e missing_gods s/U// 14:10:12 missing gods[1/1]: IW 14:10:20 -!- fixit_friend has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:10:20 next god: Worpiklaani 14:11:31 wheals: so now wasting a turn as a mummy channeling with Sif because you rebound . will not work? 14:11:42 read the commit message 14:11:57 yay! 14:12:21 i admit this is a bit more complicated than just binding the macro, but it's a usability win for all other races 14:13:28 -!- vale_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:11 -!- fixit_friend has joined ##crawl-dev 14:14:13 -!- eliot_ is now known as eliotn 14:14:40 <|amethyst> wheals: hm, the comment about changing the "a" makes me think we should have a lua interface to command_to_key 14:14:54 <|amethyst> wheals: other than do_commands I mean 14:14:59 oh yeah that'd help 14:15:52 clearly we need the lua to be async so i can do `crawl.do_commands({CMD_USE_ABILITY})\ncrawl.process_keys(key)` 14:18:23 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 14:18:42 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 14:20:02 on a different lua topic, does anyone have any thoughts on the best way of making it possible to use rcfile to alternate between two starting combos? currently you can just have it randomly choose one or the other each time 14:20:44 since we don't run any rcfile lua until after game start 14:20:59 is there a way to reference an item_def by it's index? i have an int 'index' and i need something like item_def& scroll = index; but that results in invalid initialization of reference of type ‘item_def&’ from expression of type ‘int’ 14:21:03 <|amethyst> how do you have it randomly choose one or the other 14:21:07 <|amethyst> Naruni: mitm[index] 14:21:17 awesome 14:21:41 |amethyst: combo = DDFi.waraxe, MiBe.handaxe 14:21:51 randomly picks one or the other (no lua involved) 14:24:03 wheals: rip Wryhcdzheimz 14:24:36 <|amethyst> elliptic: we could add a new Lua delimiter which does Lua even at initial load time 14:24:51 <|amethyst> elliptic: but for offline play there is an issue 14:25:28 <|amethyst> elliptic: because we don't necessarily have a player name yet, so wouldn't be able to find the per-player persist data 14:25:44 Naruni: make sure that the item is on the floor and not in your inventory though 14:26:03 <|amethyst> yeah, item.index() and mitm[index] are things you can only do with floor items 14:26:13 <|amethyst> so maybe you want 14:26:26 |amethyst: I was wondering about something like loading the persist file after the player name exists but before the combo has been chosen 14:26:43 <|amethyst> elliptic: you don't have to pick the name first 14:26:46 oh 14:27:11 really? I think you do in local console at least? 14:27:14 or can you change it later 14:27:16 item_def& scroll = (!in_inventory(you.inv[item_slot])) ? scroll(mitm[item_slot]) : scroll(you.inv[item_slot]); 14:27:34 <|amethyst> Naruni: err 14:27:40 yeah thats horrible 14:27:44 <|amethyst> Naruni: you.inv[item_slot] doesn't make sense if it's not in inventory 14:28:01 no, it looks like you pick the name first in console 14:28:17 MyObject& ref = (condition) ? MyObject([something]) : MyObject([something else]); <- got this from stackoverflow, was trying to use that 14:28:21 <|amethyst> elliptic: I can do: 14:28:29 <|amethyst> elliptic: now I have no name yet and am picking a char 14:28:36 oh 14:28:38 I see 14:28:57 <|amethyst> Naruni: when you got the number 14:29:12 <|amethyst> Naruni: how you got it should have told you whether it's an inventory slot or a floor item index 14:29:29 <|amethyst> Naruni: you will have to keep track of that, for example with a bool on_floor; 14:30:10 <|amethyst> Naruni: then you can do item_def& scroll = on_floor ? mitm[item_slot] : you.inv[item_slot]; 14:30:50 |amethyst, so that's a really tricky problem with this whole thing... there are many functions that will need to be changed. or maybe item_def needs to have a property bool inv_or_floor 14:31:01 <|amethyst> err 14:31:08 <|amethyst> if you have an item_def then you don't need to do this 14:31:11 <|amethyst> because you have the item_def 14:31:32 <|amethyst> this is about turning a raw number into an item_def 14:31:43 right, but the item_def doesn't get passed from function to function, only the int slot gets passed 14:31:55 -!- ldf_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:32:02 <|amethyst> yes, those functions will need to change to take an item_def* or item_def& instead 14:32:08 <|amethyst> the way you changed drink 14:32:20 for instance, read() does some stuff then it continues on to read_scroll(int item_slot) 14:32:35 <|amethyst> so read_scroll will need to take an item_def instead 14:32:45 ok, but now i start getting into read having delay, which also only takes a int 14:33:06 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 14:33:12 then i'd have to change the delay code to work with item_def* instead of int 14:33:24 which starts a undesireable chain reaction 14:33:43 <|amethyst> delays have up to three parameters 14:34:04 -!- zxc_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:34:06 <|amethyst> (int parameters) 14:34:11 all are int's 14:34:13 yes 14:34:19 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:34:23 <|amethyst> you could make the scroll delay use two of them instead of just one: the first 0 or 1 for whether it's a floor item 14:35:03 <|amethyst> and the second one either an index or slot number, depending on the value of the first parameter 14:35:08 hmm 14:35:45 would that go into the start_delay function? 14:36:01 <|amethyst> you'd pass both to start_delay from read 14:36:20 <|amethyst> then you'd need to handle it in handle_delay 14:36:27 <|amethyst> which currently does if (!_can_read_scroll(delay.parm1)) 14:36:41 looks like stop_delay also needs stuff 14:37:16 <|amethyst> I think stop_delay doesn't actually use the parm1 (item slot) 14:37:22 <|amethyst> for DELAY_BLURRY_SCROLL specifically 14:37:37 <|amethyst> ah 14:37:39 <|amethyst> _finish_delay does 14:37:54 <|amethyst> which is what actually calls read_scroll 14:38:20 -!- sage1234-iphone has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:38:24 ok 14:38:55 you could also cast the pointer to an int... (don't do this) 14:39:13 <|amethyst> for values of "can" 14:39:24 <|amethyst> err, "could" 14:39:50 im thinking the easier way to handle this is to make delay.parm2 be the 0 (inv) or 1 (floor) 14:39:55 <|amethyst> that would work too 14:40:19 <|amethyst> it's not really much difference either way, because you'll have to change all the same places in the code 14:41:08 <|amethyst> but leaving the slot or index in parm1 does mean you have to change fewer '1's to '2's in those places :) 14:41:14 delays would be another nice thing to rewrite 14:41:50 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I feel like I understand delays reasonably well... until macros are involved 14:42:00 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: then my eyes start glazing over 14:43:02 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 14:43:03 The build was fixed. (master - fe51963 #5586 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/132909805 14:43:03 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 14:43:26 item_def& scroll = !in_inventory(you.inv[item_slot]) ? mitm[item_slot] : you.inv[item_slot];; 14:43:38 or that would just work instead of changing delay code 14:43:55 |amethyst: anything that involves a variable called 'parm1' makes me sad 14:43:57 no, that won't work 14:46:02 <|amethyst> Naruni: if item_slot is actually the index of a floor item 14:46:11 <|amethyst> Naruni: then you.inv[item_slot] is talking about a completely different item 14:46:20 <|amethyst> or is an out-of-bounds access 14:46:36 <|amethyst> for example, if this is the item with index 87 14:46:44 <|amethyst> there are only 52 slots in you.inv 14:47:06 <|amethyst> even if it is the item with index 5, that's not the same as the item in your slot 'e', which is what that left-hand side looks up 14:47:09 oh i see 14:47:26 well, so here's another problem with changing the delay stuff: start_delay(DELAY_BLURRY_SCROLL, turns, letter_to_index(scroll->slot)); 14:47:31 it already uses 3 params 14:47:41 <|amethyst> !source start_delay 14:47:42 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/delay.cc#l155 14:47:47 no, the first isn't a real param 14:47:54 oh right 14:47:54 <|amethyst> it passes type, turns, and parm1 14:47:56 neither is the second 14:47:58 ok 14:48:18 -!- sage1234-iphone_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:21 <|amethyst> also, letter_to_index(scroll->slot) is hopefully only for scrolls in inventory 14:48:36 yes 14:48:44 but i have to change that 14:49:38 <|amethyst> I would recommend making a function that takes an item_def* or item_def& and returns (either using a pair, or with out-parameters) both the flag about whether it's in inventory, and the slot or index accordingly 14:50:04 <|amethyst> and another function that takes those two things and returns the item_def* or item_def& 14:50:13 -!- MgDark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:50:18 <|amethyst> s/recommend/suggest/ 14:50:19 ...turns, letter_to_index(scroll->slot), 0); (for inv) and ...turns, scroll->index(), 1); (for floor) 14:50:28 <|amethyst> yeah 14:50:32 |amethyst, ive been thinking about that for a long time 14:50:49 <|amethyst> though for inventory items you can use just scroll->link and don't need the letter_to_index 14:51:22 <|amethyst> but that's not a matter of correctness, just simplicity (the two expressions should be equal) 14:52:49 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:24 though for things besides scrolls it'd be better to try to use item_def& everywhere i think 14:54:09 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:54:19 <|amethyst> I think in general it's better to use item_def& or item_def* everywhere (const in some places) 14:54:36 <|amethyst> even for scrolls, everywhere except in the delay 14:54:48 <|amethyst> and as PF points out we should improve that aspect of delays 14:55:02 <|amethyst> we did the same thing for fineffs a while ago 14:55:29 <|amethyst> using inheritance and polymorphism rather than integer fields that are used in obscene ways 14:56:19 <|amethyst> at some point three integers aren't going to be enough 14:56:24 <|amethyst> and someone is going to try bit-packing six shorts into there 14:56:34 <|amethyst> or a pointer and an integer :/ 14:57:41 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:58:20 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:00:02 <|amethyst> Naruni: probably in both places (scrolls and potions) you will have a similar if (in_inventory(item)) dec_inv_item_quantity(item.link, N) else dec_mitm_item_quantity(item.index(), N); 15:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:27 <|amethyst> Naruni: I would consider putting that into a function dec_item_quantity(item_def &item, int N) 15:00:37 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:00:56 <|amethyst> Naruni: or that could even be a method item_def::dec_quantity(int N) 15:01:46 |amethyst, that's probably a better approach - you are right there will be repeat code 15:01:54 i'll get to that later 15:02:14 -!- eliotn has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:02:57 -!- SenorMeltyface has joined ##crawl-dev 15:03:04 <|amethyst> Naruni: yeah... just as you're working on the scroll implementation, pay attention to what work you're repeating from potions 15:03:21 how come xom torments you when he mutates you? 15:03:29 <|amethyst> you don't have to factor them out right away, but you should definitely factor them out before you write the same code a third time 15:03:52 what's the point of needing to walk the orb out the door? the illusion of danger? 15:04:35 <|amethyst> tradition 15:05:14 it also ensures nobody will ever win with a single keystroke 15:05:58 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 15:06:17 <|amethyst> also, there are structural reasons 15:06:27 <|amethyst> stories usually don't end at the climax 15:07:07 <|amethyst> and a text dump denouement probably wouldn't work 15:07:16 !lm * orb ktyp ktyp!=winning x=cdist(name) 15:07:23 1513 milestones for * (orb ktyp ktyp!=winning): cdist(name)=1008 15:07:29 <|amethyst> (not that games necessarily need to follow linear narrative traditions) 15:07:34 for >1000 people, not just an illusion 15:07:37 also how come xom is amused by entering a labyrinth 15:07:46 <|amethyst> !lm * recent orb / ktyp!=winning 15:07:47 minmay: starvation awaits... 15:07:48 274/8452 milestones for * (recent orb): N=274/8452 (3.24%) 15:07:50 <|amethyst> !lm * orb / ktyp!=winning 15:07:57 1513/44351 milestones for * (orb): N=1513/44351 (3.41%) 15:07:57 !lg * recent beogh ktyp~~water 15:07:58 7. Brewhammer the Severer (L13 HOFi of Beogh), drowned by a drowned soul (summoned by a merfolk avatar) on Shoals:1 on 2016-05-04 16:46:56, with 24196 points after 14854 turns and 0:51:01. 15:08:00 <|amethyst> !lm * orb s=cv / ktyp!=winning o=% 15:08:06 1513/44351 milestones for * (orb): 54/701x 0.8 [7.70%], 45/726x 0.7 [6.20%], 57/1135x 0.14 [5.02%], 15/332x 0.6 [4.52%], 52/1174x 0.11 [4.43%], 16/366x 0.9-a [4.37%], 65/1508x 0.18 [4.31%], 7/164x 0.6-a [4.27%], 63/1518x 0.12-a [4.15%], 61/1477x 0.10 [4.13%], 37/897x 0.5 [4.12%], 84/2192x 0.15-a [3.83%], 23/605x 0.8-a [3.80%], 10/266x 0.19-a [3.76%], 17/454x 0.3 [3.74%], 28/755x 0.4 [3.71%], 40/10... 15:08:07 hrm 15:08:08 ...why is that ktyp=water 15:08:09 !kw drowning 15:08:09 No keyword 'drowning' 15:08:16 <|amethyst> 0.8 had the hardest orb run apparently 15:08:20 minmay: i've wondered that for a while 15:08:22 !kw drowning ktyp=water killer!=drowned_soul 15:08:23 Defined keyword: drowning => ktyp=water killer!=drowned_soul 15:08:25 <|amethyst> !lm * orb s=cv / ktyp!=winning o=-% 15:08:26 0.8 had people seeing the "new" orb run for the first time 15:08:32 1513/44351 milestones for * (orb): 2/151x 0.2 [1.32%], 2/108x 0.7-a [1.85%], 92/4027x 0.16-a [2.28%], 14/565x 0.10-a [2.48%], 73/2783x 0.17 [2.62%], 151/5530x 0.17-a [2.73%], 58/1946x 0.15 [2.98%], 28/918x 0.12 [3.05%], 100/3215x 0.16 [3.11%], 29/923x 0.9 [3.14%], 72/2273x 0.14-a [3.17%], 31/966x 0.13 [3.21%], 126/3895x 0.18-a [3.23%], 61/1689x 0.13-a [3.61%], 40/1092x 0.11-a [3.66%], 28/755x 0.4 ... 15:08:32 so it had the most people dying to not knowing it existed 15:08:33 !lg * recent beogh drowning 15:08:34 6. Prakerore the Severer (L13 HOFi of Beogh), drowned by a water elemental on Depths:1 (serial_bayou_shore_a) on 2016-04-20 21:54:16, with 34944 points after 14677 turns and 1:12:50. 15:08:41 !lg * recent beogh drowning s=killer 15:08:42 6 games for * (recent beogh drowning): 4x, 2x a water elemental 15:08:52 !kw drowning ktyp=water killer= 15:08:53 Defined keyword: drowning => ktyp=water killer= 15:08:55 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 15:08:57 !lg * recent beogh drowning 15:09:00 i'm surprised 0.14 is so high since it shortened the orb run 15:09:01 4. DenpaOtoko the Warrior (L14 HOFi of Beogh), drowned in IceCv (ice_cave_small_giant) on 2016-04-07 09:37:49, with 39869 points after 9485 turns and 1:06:44. 15:09:11 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.19-a0-271-g1035a83 (34) 15:09:28 mprf("It %s a %s.", you.inv[item_slot].quantity < prev_quantity ? "was" : "is", scroll_name.c_str()); 15:09:35 <|amethyst> wheals: were any new orb run conducts added in that tournament? 15:09:48 !source item_def 15:09:49 1/2. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/externs.h#l588 15:09:50 <|amethyst> wheals: s/conducts/banners or points/ 15:09:53 i think orbruntomb was a banner before then, but that might have been it 15:11:44 Crash when going upstairs 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10444 by alonsoag95 15:12:00 item_def property quantity seems misleading 15:13:01 if i have 5 potions of healing in the inventory, and i look at them by item_def* pot, will pot->quantity == 5? 15:13:16 <|amethyst> yes, should be 15:13:21 <|amethyst> what do you mean by misleading? 15:13:59 it just seems like wizardry that an item_def is an item, but it could be multiple items 15:14:14 <|amethyst> an item_def is a stack 15:14:25 <|amethyst> something that can go in an inventory slot 15:14:32 it wouldn't make sense to have a "quantity" field that could only ever be 1 15:14:40 -!- sage1234-iphone_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:53 <|amethyst> and if you made them different item_defs, that means you could only hold 52 items total 15:14:58 <|amethyst> which would suck for archers 15:15:10 what if score was gained primarily by picking up the orb, instead of exiting with it? then those 3% who randomly die holding it don't feel so bad, and people who don't wanna bother with it can just pick up the orb and quit? 15:15:13 huh 15:16:12 you can do the silly run for a few more points, or just move on to a challenge (the next game) 15:16:24 !lm * orb !won 15:16:27 1513. [2016-05-25 09:26:50] SevenDeadlySins the Formicid Arbalest (L27 FoFi of Hepliaklqana) found the Orb of Zot! (Zot:5) 15:16:39 look, a death during the non-challenging silly run 15:16:54 !lm fixit_friend orb !won 15:16:55 No milestones for fixit_friend (orb !won). 15:16:55 <|amethyst> amalloy: that's the "3% who randomly die" 15:17:13 yeah, we established it happens in 2.5% to 3% of games. no it didn't happen to me :P 15:17:27 case DELAY_SHAFT_SELF: you.do_shaft_ability(); hah 15:17:28 the orb run lasts for less than 3% of your game, but it kills 3% of players. that doesn't sound like random trivial death, it sounds like a challenge 15:17:47 <|amethyst> amalloy: but to be fair it is less of a challenge than zot:5 just was 15:17:49 obviously if you're well prepared you probably won't die, but that's true of every challenge in the game 15:17:57 <|amethyst> !lg * recent br.end=zot / !won 15:17:58 Unknown field: br.end 15:18:02 <|amethyst> !lm * recent br.end=zot / !won 15:18:02 |amethyst: not in my games :P 15:18:03 1507/9765 milestones for * (recent br.end=zot): N=1507/9765 (15.43%) 15:18:08 <|amethyst> !lm * recent br.enter=zot / !won 15:18:11 2507/10820 milestones for * (recent br.enter=zot): N=2507/10820 (23.17%) 15:18:17 <|amethyst> !lm * recent orb / !won 15:18:18 274/8452 milestones for * (recent orb): N=274/8452 (3.24%) 15:18:27 i usually don't killdudes zot:5, so getting the orb via teleports/apportation is the easy part, and then there's tension around getting out 15:18:38 fixit_friend: i don't think that'd really improve anything. the people who have played a ton and care about score would still do the orb run if it gave points 15:19:05 <|amethyst> I don't think it would be *bad* to give more points for orb-holding compared to winning 15:19:12 <|amethyst> but yeah, it wouldn't solve anything 15:19:40 !lg * orb 15:19:41 No keyword 'orb' 15:19:42 rip 15:19:48 <|amethyst> unless it's a very tiny number of points (or negative!) for making it out 15:19:53 well I'd of course sooner see the orb run gone, but I'm trying to think of a compromise. also that thing people do where they take the orb into a branch and do that branch + orb spawns, is cool 15:20:59 <|amethyst> could make some number of runes only available on the way up 15:21:18 -!- SenorMeltyface has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:23:11 fixit_friend: why would you like to see the orb run gone? 15:24:26 because it's mostly a formality. I've never seen anyone die on it, but apparently it's technically possible and that must really suck for a few players, especially because of the way scoring works 15:24:34 i died on the orb run once 15:24:39 !won fixit_friend 15:24:39 fixit_friend has not won in 135 games. 15:24:56 it was fun. it's a great story 15:25:19 and escaping zot:5 is not a formality at all 15:25:35 after zot:5, yes, it is pretty hard to die, notwithstanding my own dumb death 15:25:49 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:26:03 the thing is, if you remove the orb run, you are making zot:5 tele strats even stronger, to the point where it is insane not to do it 15:26:15 and it's already (usually) safer than killduding 15:26:23 I think I have multiple orb run deaths. I am still glad it exists though. 15:26:27 <|amethyst> you could propose the compromise of ending the game when you take the Zot:5 stairs with the orb 15:26:31 !lm . orb !won 15:26:32 hm, that's true. sandman25 was suggesting removing it, in circus animals, and I liked the idea, but wanted to find out what the point of it is 15:26:33 2. [2016-05-07 23:13:48] nikheizen the Lord of Darkness (L27 GrGl of Kikubaaqudgha) found the Orb of Zot! (Zot:5) 15:26:44 !lm . orb !won -2 15:26:45 1/2. [2015-04-09 14:08:40] nikheizen the Impregnable (L27 FoEE of Makhleb) found the Orb of Zot! (Zot:5) 15:26:57 <|amethyst> !lm * recent orb lg:urune<=5 / !won 15:26:58 238/5913 milestones for * (recent orb lg:urune<=5): N=238/5913 (4.03%) 15:27:09 <|amethyst> !lm * recent orb lg:urune=3 / !won 15:27:19 <|amethyst> !lm * recent orb lg:urune=15 / !won 15:27:21 175/4011 milestones for * (recent orb lg:urune=3): N=175/4011 (4.36%) 15:27:41 17/2111 milestones for * (recent orb lg:urune=15): N=17/2111 (0.81%) 15:27:43 i think that compromise is a lot more reasonable, |amethyst. i don't love it personally, but it's not as obviously awful to me as just ending the game when you pick up the orb 15:28:19 <|amethyst> yeah 15:28:24 i do enjoy the feeling of the orb run. even though it's pretty safe, it's fun to have a part of the game where you are willing to spend any consumable on the most trivial of things. "hm, zap a wand of digging to save two turns? sure" 15:28:39 <|amethyst> I'd rather make the orb run harder (or scale by runes or such) myself 15:28:42 zin, please get this pan lord out of my face 15:28:46 <|amethyst> than remove it 15:28:52 <|amethyst> if the problem is that it feels trivial to do 15:29:06 <|amethyst> I think it still probably shouldn't be as dangerous as Zot:5 15:29:16 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 15:29:17 The build was fixed. (master - 27098ee #5587 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/132911773 15:29:17 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 15:29:24 i saw a player almost die on the orb run yesterday, until i reminded him he had Step from Time 15:29:39 trying to tab pan lords 15:30:01 i think the main problem is more that the danger is very inconsistent, not that it's not dangerous enough 15:30:15 that is true for sure 15:30:20 !lm . death won 15:30:21 2. [2016-05-22 17:38:23] nikheizen the Eviscerator (L22 FeBe of Trog) demolished by a spriggan rider (a +0 spear of venom) (led by the Enchantress) (Depths:5) 15:30:40 the suggestion of ending the orb run after exiting zot also seemed plausible 15:30:49 <|amethyst> or 15:30:50 hrm 15:30:50 !lm . death won s=xl,place,noun 15:30:51 6 milestones for amalloy (death won): 2x 21 (Depths:4 (hit from afar by a stone giant (large rock)), Depths:5 (shot by a yaktaur captain (bolt))), 23 (Zot:3 (slain by a storm dragon)), 16 (Snake:4 (slain by a naga warrior (a +0 whip))), 11 (Volcano (blasted by a firespitter statue (bolt of fire))), 24 (Zot:5 (blasted by an orb of fire (bolt of fire))) 15:30:59 <|amethyst> could have a series of stairs you take out of zot:5 15:31:00 yeah, that's what I'm gonna counter-propose, thanks |amethyst 15:31:00 I guess I've died on the orb run 3 times. That was a win though 15:31:05 the trouble is, with that one or the zot:5 suggestion, how would you do panhelltomb orb 15:31:08 haha 15:31:16 <|amethyst> leading to, say, Depths:$, D:$, D:7, D:1 15:31:16 -!- removeelyvilon has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:31:28 <|amethyst> so you skip over the "boring" parts 15:31:41 <|amethyst> then on those level, rather than doing orbrun spawns over time 15:31:48 <|amethyst> you pre-spawn a bunch of orbrun monsters 15:32:18 but it's also fun to like...see your game in review as you ascend. "hey look, i annotated this level as 'troll!!!!!'. remember when that was scary?" 15:32:27 "looks like i left pikel here, let's glaciate him" 15:32:38 <|amethyst> ??menkaure[orb 15:32:38 I don't have a page labeled menkaure[orb in my learndb. 15:32:43 It's a victory lap, in a sense. 15:32:52 yes 15:33:00 except that of course sometimes you die 15:33:09 with a 0.05% chance of shatter panlords 15:33:13 if it was always just a victory lap, or always dangerous, it could have a clearer purpose 15:33:46 yes, i agree with that 15:33:54 like victory lap style, it would spawn a ton of appropriate-for-that-floor things so you can see how much more powerful you are 15:34:06 As MarvinPA said, the problem is that it's inconsistent. 15:34:12 but of course it's hard to have something that's always just a victory lap. if it's not dangerous at all it's not that exciting 15:34:28 I think it could serve a purpose as both 15:34:56 if it's like, usually trivial but occasionally very dangerous, that sounds like a lot of things in crawl 15:35:12 make Z and U orbrun more dangerous, but get proceedingly easier as you climb up through D 15:35:13 "o+tab until you realize it's a bad idea" is how a lot of crawl is played 15:37:52 trapped on zot:5 at xl18 with no way to clear the vault is how a lot of crawl is played #dunkofthemonth 15:39:04 -!- cang has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:39:59 gammafunk: trapped? they're trapped in here with me! 15:40:05 ! 15:40:13 i haven't even reached my final form! 15:40:53 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 15:41:20 =O 15:41:23 I'm not convinced that dragon form needs the "Really attack barehanded?" prompt 15:41:38 haha 15:41:43 yeah, is that based on UC training levels? 15:41:49 I noticed that on my last CK 15:41:51 i think so 15:41:53 gammafunk: yes, and on holding a weapon 15:42:02 amalloy: well dform can't hold a weapon 15:42:02 if you have a weapon, and your UC is at exactly 0 15:42:06 hold, not wield 15:42:09 gah 15:42:10 carry 15:42:49 on the one hand it makes sense not to prompt, because like of course i want to attack bare-handed in a form 15:43:01 but on the other, you can get polymorphed into a pig 15:43:12 so which forms do you prompt for? 15:43:27 I was joking 15:43:51 who doesn't want to brawl in pig form? 15:43:54 minmay's first joke 15:43:58 <|amethyst> working on it 15:44:02 illegal to joke's 15:44:10 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 15:46:38 to joke's? 15:47:20 -!- Reverie has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 15:48:19 joke's maker's 15:50:11 -!- vasya_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:52:42 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 15:53:49 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:54:32 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 15:54:33 <|amethyst> hm 15:54:51 <|amethyst> player::can_wield() apparently doesn't consider forms 15:55:11 would it mess up acquirement etc. if it did? 15:55:13 <|amethyst> hesitant to change that, so looking for something additional to tell me whether I am in a form that cannot wield at all 15:55:20 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 15:55:21 <|amethyst> it would probably mess something up 15:55:47 <|amethyst> looking for the best way to determine "can I wield weapons at all" 15:57:25 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:57:48 <|amethyst> on 15:57:49 <|amethyst> oh 15:58:00 <|amethyst> maybe ::can_wield() works 15:58:00 i know i did implement that 15:58:15 yeah i think that's exactly what it's for 15:59:26 if you have 0 uc and are in dragon form, you probably don't want to melee anyway 15:59:42 yeah i think it's fine not adding a special case for forms here 16:00:00 !kw drowning 16:00:01 Keyword: drowning => ktyp=water killer= 16:00:02 most likely you got the small random chance for polymorph, and now your attack is cut off 16:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:06 !kw drowning ckiller=water 16:00:07 Defined keyword: drowning => ckiller=water 16:00:10 is better I think 16:01:12 i dunno, i've brawled some surprisingly tough things with 0 UC dragonform and won 16:01:33 yeah, even with 0 UC your base damage is 18 16:01:36 + claws 3 16:01:46 + STR*2/3 16:02:12 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: hm, different problem 16:02:21 ? 16:02:36 !lg * drowning 16:02:37 2344. chottis the Sorcerer (L14 DECj of Vehumet), drowned on Shoals:1 on 2016-05-24 21:43:06, with 71015 points after 31629 turns and 4:39:23. 16:02:48 interesting 16:02:49 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: that can_wield, if you pass say_reason = false, returns true for known holy weapons if you are demonspawn 16:03:10 if (a == 1 && b == 1 || if (a == 1 && b == 2)) does the second if statement need to exist? 16:03:39 that second 'if' looks out of place 16:03:56 you can't nest ifs 16:03:57 but that I would write as if (a == 1 && (b == 1 || b == 2)) 16:04:00 <|amethyst> that should be if (a == 1 && b == 1 || a == 1 && b == 2) or better if (a == 1 && (b == 1 || b == 2)) 16:04:08 haha 16:04:16 well, i mean, you can nest ifs, but not like that 16:04:46 -!- edsrzf has joined ##crawl-dev 16:05:48 this one is kind of complicated so here ill pastie it: http://pastie.org/10852457 16:06:19 you can't combine those 16:06:30 ok 16:06:33 the parameters to _can_read_scroll differ 16:06:45 one is you.inv[...] and the other is mitm[...] 16:06:50 @??ice fiend 16:06:50 Ice Fiend (001) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 80-115 | AC/EV: 15/6 | Dam: 2509(claw)12(cold:18-53), 2509(claw)12(cold:18-53) | 05demonic, 10doors, unholy, see invisible, fly | Res: 13magic(immune), 12cold+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 2900 | Sp: b.cold (3d27) [06!sil], s.torment [06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: human. 16:07:01 -!- scummos__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:07 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.19-a0-272-g9b8175b: Reduce Beoghite drowning 10(2 minutes ago, 7 files, 57+ 37-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9b8175be0508 16:07:29 well, there is a way to combine them but it's less readable imo 16:07:30 @??ugly thing 16:07:30 red ugly thing (05u) | Spd: 10 (move: 90%) | HD: 12 | HP: 53-75 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Dam: 1704(fire:12-23) | 10doors | Res: 06magic(40), 05fire, 04napalm | Vul: 11silver | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 550 | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 16:07:39 hmm 16:07:44 red ugly thing (05u) | Spd: 10 (move: 90%) | HD: 12 | HP: 53-75 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Dam: 1704(fire:12-23) | 10doors | Res: 06magic(40), 05fire, 04napalm | Vul: 11silver | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 550 | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 16:07:44 %??ugly thing 16:07:49 -!- vasya_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:07:51 Ice Fiend (001) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 80-115 | AC/EV: 15/6 | Dam: 2509(claw)12(cold:18-53), 2509(claw)12(cold:18-53) | 05demonic, 10doors, unholy, see invisible, fly | Res: 13magic(immune), 12cold+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 2900 | Sp: b.cold (3d27) [06!sil], s.torment [06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: human. 16:07:51 %??ice fiend 16:08:11 is there a reason the "glow" flag isn't listed here? 16:08:26 <|amethyst> geekosaur: I'm not sure what you mean there? 16:08:31 if (!_can_read_scroll((delay,parm2 ? mitm : you.inv)[delay.parm1])) 16:08:44 <|amethyst> ah 16:08:53 <|amethyst> I wasn't sure what you meant about "combining" 16:09:12 *delay.parm2 16:09:12 <|amethyst> yeah, that wouldn't actually work because they're different types 16:09:20 <|amethyst> but 16:09:22 <|amethyst> you can write 16:09:23 oh 16:09:29 !lg . ckiller=lava 16:09:30 1. gammafunk the Magician (L7 HEIE), took a swim in molten lava in the Temple (triangle_lava_temple_11) on 2013-07-27 19:59:12, with 1071 points after 4477 turns and 0:46:13. 16:09:32 interesting 16:09:34 !kw lava 16:09:35 Built-in: lava => ktyp=lava 16:09:44 elliptic: probably also for that? 16:09:45 -!- LexAckson__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09:56 <|amethyst> if (delay.parm2 ? !_can_read_scroll(mitm[delay.parm1]) : !_can_read_scroll(you.inv[delay.parm1])) 16:10:01 -!- LexAckson__ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:10:09 <|amethyst> however, I think this is something where a function would be better 16:10:13 !kw drowning ckiller=water|lava 16:10:14 Defined keyword: drowning => ckiller=water|lava 16:10:19 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:21 !lg * recentish drowning s=ckiller 16:10:22 823 games for * (recentish drowning): 737x water, 86x lava 16:10:41 heh, I guess there's not a big reason to differentiate those 16:10:54 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 16:11:23 I saw you were discussing *Drain, *Contam, Fragile before my connection broke. Did you reach any conclusion? 16:11:53 <|amethyst> Naruni: static item_def &_item_from_parms(int slot_idx, bool on_floor) { return on_floor ? mitm[slot_idx] : you.inv[slot_idx]; } 16:11:55 -!- removeelyvilon_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:12:21 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:23 <|amethyst> Naruni: then you can do if (!_can_read_scroll(_item_from_parms(delay.parm1, delay.parm2))) 16:12:44 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 16:12:51 The Book of the Dead contains a Beogh drowning death. Now this is history! 16:12:58 <|amethyst> Naruni: (that return with ? : can be two returns in an if/else, if you find that easier to read and write) 16:13:03 beogh sort of lends itself to drowning 16:13:08 or did 16:13:19 ??beogh[glub] 16:13:19 I don't have a page labeled beogh[glub] in my learndb. 16:13:23 bah 16:13:24 smite, smite, smite, glub 16:13:28 PleasingFungus: there is only one where you drown from smiting though. 16:13:39 |amethyst, it's done. im finished (i hope). 16:13:39 ??beogh wrath 16:13:39 beogh wrath[1/2]: ABANDONMENT: 50 penance, you stop walking on water if applicable (glub glub glub glub), all tame orcs go hostile. RETRIBUTION: 25% smiting (and not the 7-17 kind), 12.5% 1d2 dancing electrocution weaps, 25% followers abandon you if still worshipping, else fall through 37.5% summon hostile (warlord, high priest, knight, warrior, plain) 16:13:43 geekosaur: ^? 16:13:46 yeh 16:13:55 From the hepl front: my scouts report battlemage as "hard to positon" or "gets in the way all the time" 16:14:00 <|amethyst> Naruni: never finished, just ready for the next thing :) 16:14:03 keep the hepl hype alive 16:14:16 that ship has to set sail 16:14:23 i mean with potions and scrolls from the floor :) 16:14:23 maybe i'll have to implement the chequers thing 16:14:25 idk 16:14:27 removeelyvilon_: it is already on the open sea? 16:14:28 <|amethyst> does hep give you shoot-through the way demonic guardian does? 16:14:32 |amethyst: n 16:14:34 PleasingFungus: what is it? 16:14:34 that's the chequers thing 16:14:37 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: is that th 16:14:37 aha! 16:14:40 :) 16:14:42 it seemed fine when i was playing battlemage. 16:14:42 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: answered my question :) 16:14:44 PleasingFungus, 10317 has a patch file v4. i think it's final 16:14:49 Naruni: wanna bet 16:14:55 <|amethyst> heh 16:14:59 well I hope that it is and that it reaches the harbours of stable 0.19 one day 16:15:00 it seemed fine when i was playing battlemage. you just gotta learn to position. idk 16:15:02 ill try again 16:15:05 i dont gamble with money, only beer 16:15:05 at some point 16:15:10 good call 16:15:28 I'll try too, just what I heard from some others 16:15:36 !lg * beogh ktyp=water 2 -tv 16:15:37 2/36. Stormfox, XL8 HOPr, T:6328 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 16:15:45 dang, hopr 16:15:47 amethys you cants hoot through your ancestor 16:15:58 also english 16:16:00 <|amethyst> removeelyvilon_: yeah, PF just told me that 16:16:22 <|amethyst> removeelyvilon_: your answer was closer to English though 16:16:27 <|amethyst> removeelyvilon_: since his was just "n" 16:16:38 english is overrated 16:16:46 you try to escape, but your burden drags you down! 16:16:48 What would the queen say? 16:17:06 <|amethyst> !source -rm english.cc 16:17:06 Can't find -rm. 16:17:10 <|amethyst> FR 16:17:15 random and too late tournament feedback: slow and steady III is flat out harder and kinda similar to gelatinous body III 16:17:29 and wth kinda title is test subject 16:17:31 well, gelatinous body III is easier 16:17:36 I am the mighty X, TEST SUBJECT of pakellas! 16:17:40 the banners are not supposed to all be the same difficulty 16:17:45 since you don't have to streak, and you can get it with more than 5 games 16:17:50 ref e.g. oka banners 16:18:26 <|amethyst> CanOfWorms: that's what re said 16:18:43 <|amethyst> CanOfWorms: "slow and steady III is harder" and you said "gelatinous body III is easier" 16:18:50 whoops 16:18:57 -!- murtidash has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:19:00 it looks like about three times as many people got gelatinous body III as slow and steady III 16:19:05 !lg * trunk (hep|ukayaw) s=god / won 16:19:14 12/315 games for * (trunk ((hep || ukayaw))): 6/112x Ukayaw [5.36%], 6/203x Hepliaklqana [2.96%] 16:19:19 PleasingFungus: You're still winning. Both the 'played' race and the 'players killed' race 16:19:33 should have been lab assistant 16:19:42 The only way to win is not to play... 16:19:46 Lasty_: Ukayaw is clearly overpowered! 16:19:47 wlecome... death... 16:19:57 there's a lot more complaining about hep, that's for sure 16:19:59 well gel body could easily be bumped up to a larger value 16:20:07 then it would be notably distinct 16:20:14 PleasingFungus: someone already called for removal :( 16:20:17 i saw 16:20:18 dpeg: Clearly not OP enough, since it's less popular than Hep 16:20:19 no worries 16:20:23 like 7 or 9 instead of 5? 16:20:26 PleasingFungus: you are strong :) 16:20:35 dpeg: if I doubled the strength of all the powers, I bet it'd be more popular!!!! 16:20:36 CanOfWorms: I mean, there are already 40-50 people who got it but didn't get the streak banner 16:20:37 Lasty_: not sure that's a good metric 16:20:38 if it was someone who could formulate a coherent argument, i'd be more worried 16:20:38 every time we add a god, we have to remove nem, that's the new rule 16:20:42 that's many more people than get some banners 16:20:47 gammafunk: 1learn add 16:20:48 PleasingFungus: <3 16:20:49 dpeg: haha 16:21:00 dpeg: I'm being ironic 16:21:10 gammafunk: deal! 16:21:13 gammafunk, with s/remove/redesign/ it's not actually that far off >.> 16:21:27 geekosaur: are you thinking of sanka's thing? 16:21:27 A triple sword of distortion comes into view. It is a triple sword of 16:21:28 _distortion. 16:21:32 lol 16:21:37 <|amethyst> doh 16:21:38 spoke to gamma about that yesterday... maybe chances are slimmer than I thought 16:21:39 All monsters should be announced like that. 16:21:41 thanks for the clarification, crawl 16:21:49 just making sure you caught that 16:22:01 dpeg: about which? 16:22:03 be careful of the triple sword of distortion, minmay 16:22:03 Lasty_, no, I'm thinking of all the newnem/newnewnem/newnewnew...newnem some versions back. it may predate you though 16:22:09 Lasty_: nemelex redesign 16:22:24 If only dancing weapons could dance... 16:22:27 and indeed there's another nem redesign on deck 16:22:38 dpeg: as opposed to removal? 16:22:38 -!- mibert has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:22:38 -!- Harudoku has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:22:45 well I was just talking about the approach of 'remove nemelex's unique effects' 16:22:50 I don't think that will fly 16:23:11 I think you can get two more warnings about the triple sword of distortion, if you are using HDA (with its spoiler alert system) and are worshipping ash, and a triple sword of distortion comes into view and it is a triple sword of distortion 16:23:12 gammafunk: I'm not sure I understand. 16:23:14 Lasty_: yes. gammafunk points out that zipcode and someone else put a lot of effort into redoing card effects. Gravitational force is real. 16:23:21 ah 16:23:26 hrm 16:23:33 . . . 16:23:35 * geekosaur actually had an old ^Nem game from back when he had good enough network to play online, that was more or less unplayable between removed monsters and Nem changes 16:23:37 i wonder if that's something added by |amethyst's commit - i remember i specifically checked for that 16:23:38 but we will see 16:23:49 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I think it might be this part 16:23:52 I'm not sure how to feel about that. I respect the work, but I really hate cards. 16:23:53 <|amethyst> - else if (level == DESC_IDENTIFIED) 16:23:53 <|amethyst> + else if (level == DESC_IDENTIFIED || level == DESC_WEAPON) 16:23:58 %git 5df78756b03de69263cf2427e90ec8ffb90239de 16:23:58 07|amethyst02 * 0.19-a0-262-g5df7875: Don't omit mention of Dispater's staff, +0 rods (CanOfWorms) 10(18 hours ago, 2 files, 13+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5df78756b03d 16:24:03 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: in get_monster_equipment_desc 16:24:04 * dpeg sends Lasty_ the ace of spades. 16:24:06 !learn add it A triple sword of distortion comes into view. It is a triple sword of distortion. 16:24:07 it[44/44]: A triple sword of distortion comes into view. It is a triple sword of distortion. 16:24:20 |amethyst: do you have a fix in mind? 16:24:22 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: which I added because otherwise the message from _monster_headsup is just "There is." 16:24:32 dpeg: at least it's not another yellow 1 16:24:41 ya i remember the context 16:24:42 |amethyst: This is really deep. 16:25:11 i wonder if the ash thing has an extra space now 16:25:14 or if it did before 16:25:58 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I guess get_monster_equipment_desc probably needs to be reverted, then the if (mon->type != MONS_DANCING_WEAPON) readded, and there use DESC_IDENTIFIED instead of DESC_WEAPON ? 16:26:03 PleasingFungus: are you checking out Naruni's patch? i wanted to take a look 16:26:11 didn't want to duplicate work 16:26:12 wheals: haven't looked at the new one yet 16:26:13 go for it 16:26:15 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: or rewrite the whole thing completely... 16:26:28 enter, rewrites 16:26:45 i don't personally feel like i have a good grasp on the problem yet; i'd need to re-read and think it over more 16:27:03 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: actually, probably simplest is to add a new mons_equip_desc_level_type 16:27:11 what if nem only gifted you a limited number of decks but as you keep exploring you earn points towards getting new ones and then you get them when you used up the old ones 16:27:37 -!- eliotn has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:27:46 removeelyvilon_: perhaps this helps, but my main gripe is the fact that Nemelex defines a huge number of special effects in the first place. 16:28:00 ppl just are too lazy to read what the cards do 16:28:11 removeelyvilon_: it'd also be more convincing if you changed your nick to ... something more positive such as removenemelex 16:28:39 like implementhepl? can do 16:29:18 wait, another nem redesign? 16:29:32 is this talking about the hand of cards idea that would make me actually want to play nemelex 16:29:40 dpeg isn't it a good thing that a god has unique powers? 16:29:41 |amethyst: WEAPON_WARNING 16:30:05 I found some odd behaviour recently. A minotaur (no SInv) could see me while invisible, and was wearing a ring. The ring was not identified by this, but obviously I knew it was SInv. Is this the intended behaviour? 16:30:14 !learn add dpeg "You are Guy Fieri, you are the Flavor Town Guy." 16:30:14 dpeg[18/18]: "You are Guy Fieri, you are the Flavor Town Guy." 16:30:22 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 16:31:08 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: testing 16:31:11 dpeg: the cyc people are becoming completely deranged 16:31:23 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: well, rebuilding first, because directn.h is used all over the place 16:31:42 -!- removeelyvilon_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:32:32 Speaking of topics from tavern, how does devteam feel about "dismissal? 16:32:41 -!- implementhepl has joined ##crawl-dev 16:32:54 CYC is the graveyard of the internet, don't go there 16:33:00 Lasty_: I think it should be a consumable rather than an amulet perhaps. 16:33:11 PleasingFungus: I avoid TV and largely the internet, I have no clue what he is raving about. 16:33:21 dpeg: What's the nemelex plan 16:33:23 the key thing is that he thinks you are a "flavor over mechanics" guy 16:33:26 which is really funny to me 16:33:51 He is still hurt than his id masterplan didn't work out! 16:33:52 https://www.google.com/search?q=guy+fieri&tbm=isch also he thinks you look like this 16:34:04 some people like to cook, some people like to fix cars 16:34:08 dpeg: a consumable? 16:34:14 I'm asking because I jumped in at the middle of the conversation and don't know if the plan is "hand of cards" or "remove nemelex" or something else 16:34:29 the plan... 16:34:33 the plan was to remove Lightli 16:34:40 rip 16:34:44 Lightli: there is no plan. But sanka has proposed a god draft that in my (and also others, I believe) mind could keep the core concept of Nemelex (deal with random powers) without having to define dozens of such powers. 16:34:54 Lasty_: yes, like a potion. 16:35:00 is there a link to that proposal? 16:35:01 would it work the same? 16:35:23 Lasty_: dismissal feels a lot like distortion to me - it is reasonably good but sort of annoying and unreliable 16:35:47 Lasty_: yes. Dismissal is cool, but the game can't decide whether that monster is a threat or not. If yes: "yay Dismissal!", if not "bummer, missed a kill". 16:36:06 Or you dismiss the minotaur in the Labyrinth! 16:36:10 elliptic: I think distortion is like a better working version of dismissal. For example, because it has huge offensive power. 16:36:25 and then you have to hunt the minotaur down because it was wearing PDA 16:36:30 Lasty_: as the local contrarian, i'm going to say that actually, dismissal is fine 16:36:37 Lasty_: but the idea that you shrug off monsters is useful. So it could be something... like a potion. 16:36:40 i hope that helps 16:36:47 well dismissal has more defensive power, since it activates when the player takes any form of damage 16:36:56 gammafunk: well, has a chance to activate 16:36:59 sure 16:37:02 Lightli: tavern: "sanka" + "god" on p1 16:37:05 you can't really rely on it ever 16:37:09 dismissal is very strong if a bit annoying at times. espacially if you buff up for a tough fight 16:37:19 but the effect is pretty strong because of how it applies universally to damage 16:37:36 Does anyone else think it could be a reasonable consumable? 16:37:40 I agree that it's not reliable, but that in of itself isn't a problem 16:38:03 the annoyance is maybe the problem, in terms of "no actually I wanted to fight that" 16:38:06 but I don't know how to fix that, condition on the monster state? 16:38:08 I used dismissal for a large proportion of one game because I didn't have any other useful amulets, and I do think it is decently strong (though still one of the weaker amulets), but it wasn't really much fun to use 16:38:21 -!- Dracunos has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:38:24 Naruni: it looks like the UseItemMenu doesn't need the object or cmd fields 16:38:42 _Q - a slice of pizza {god gift} 16:38:45 _Yeuchh! Anchovies. 16:38:48 I think it's probably fair to say that if the consensus is "dismissal is not fun", then it should probably get removed regardless of how strong it is 16:38:51 Naruni: or the keyin field 16:38:55 awww... not the famous pandemonium pizza 16:38:55 <|amethyst> oh huh 16:38:56 yeah that's a pretty fair assesment; it feels fun if you find it early on a weak character that's struggling 16:39:04 xom with the next level tricks 16:39:11 I personally think it's fun, but I'm probably too close to be unbiased. 16:39:12 but aside from that you just feel glad when you can replace it with something better 16:39:25 Lasty_: I think it is kind of fun, just not Top Fun 16:39:32 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: so I made that change and it fixes these messages 16:39:36 top kek? 16:39:38 is there a but 16:39:38 It's not Sif levels of fun 16:39:46 I think "Dismissal is in a much much better place than "Harm 16:39:52 agree 16:39:54 ^ 16:39:57 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: but apparently I had made an additional unintentional improvement that this undoes 16:39:58 which is completely useless imo 16:40:00 !! 16:40:05 I guess harm is supposed to be there for the id game, in part 16:40:06 I honestly love harm as-is 16:40:07 that drain is real 16:40:08 i think i'd agree with gammafunk wrt dismissal being fun but not top fun 16:40:16 strong disagree wrt harm 16:40:22 yeah, I haven't figured out when "harm is at all a good idea 16:40:28 it just seems p. bad 16:40:28 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: Which is that "A spectral weapon comes into view." 16:40:29 Naruni: i'll leave comments on Mantis 16:40:35 -!- Dracunos_ is now known as Dracunos 16:40:38 elliptic: heavy ranged user? 16:40:39 |amethyst: ? 16:40:48 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: the current state is "A spectral weapon comes into view. It is a demon trident of electrocution." 16:40:57 elliptic: IMO, any time your damage out is much larger than your damage in 16:41:01 gammafunk: maybe, but ranged monsters are the most dangerous things to those chars anyway 16:41:02 what if dismissal flickered it instead of teleporting it. "your amu vibrates and foo is gone for # turns" 16:41:07 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: but the old state, and the state I am changing things to, is missing the second sentence 16:41:20 Lasty_: harm's problem is the "welp I died" factor 16:41:22 then you know when it's coming back and can try to get gone, or wait a bit and kill it 16:41:24 like obviously harm isn't bad if you are doing tons of damage and not taking much damage, but you are doing well then already 16:41:29 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: (this doesn't involve your new code at all) 16:41:38 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I think I can special case this for spectral weapons as opposed to dancing weapons 16:41:47 you aren't going to die if you aren't taking much damage 16:42:01 |amethyst: how worried are you about spectral weapons coming into view 16:42:08 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: this is when a monster casts it 16:42:17 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I think it's nice to tell you what the weapon is when that happens 16:42:26 wheals, ok ill take another look, i used cmd for a reason i'll have to remember 16:42:29 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: even if you theoretically already know what the caster is wielding 16:42:29 i mean, you'll probably be able to see the monster... idk. nice maybe but very small 16:42:43 don't stay up worrying about it 16:42:57 I think I heard 3 votes for "dismissal isn't that fun, but maybe fun enough to keep" and three votes for "harm is bad for characters". 16:43:12 Is that a correct summary? 16:43:18 harm seems like something that should be on a fixed art 16:43:19 4 16:43:19 democracy finally comes to ##crawl-dev 16:43:20 the problem with dismissal, is that if I read the effect correctly 16:43:23 rather than a regular amulet 16:43:23 if there's no straw poll I refuse to believe the results 16:43:28 the trigger doesn't depend on damage 16:43:56 which means it activates more often in the least dangerous situations (barring stuff like execs) 16:44:20 "Harm is good, and in contrast to "Dismissal easy to modify balance-wise. 16:44:22 because the dangerous stuff is the stuff that kills you in fewer turns 16:44:30 CanOfWorms: well, it is more that it activates more on high AC low EV chars than the other way around 16:45:24 just activate upon an attempted attack? 16:45:29 fixit_friend: this is a cool idea. If it rendered enemies immune, unmoving, then it would be as useful as now, but less aggravating. 16:46:08 step from time the enemy, or would they still be visible and space-occupying? 16:46:10 in a way it would be less usfeul because sending it away could be beneficial 16:46:23 elliptic: we can ramp up Harm outgoing damage by a factor. There would be a number where it is too strong, right? So I think Harm can always be saved. 16:46:25 I was thinkin the monster's temporarily gone, so that it doesn't block a tile 16:46:36 fixit_friend: yes, maybe better 16:47:08 combo that with a source of clouds and it sounds really strong 16:47:18 CanOfWorms: surely non-dangerous stuff is also more likely to die quickly, though 16:47:29 not neccessarily 16:47:40 dpeg: yeah, if the effect isn't symmetric then it might be usable 16:47:53 elliptic: how asymmetrical would it need to be before you would use it? 16:48:06 Also, for those who dislike harm, have you tried it out? 16:48:21 it does depend on the character 16:48:28 ??harm 16:48:29 amulet of harm[1/1]: Increases damage done by and to the wearer by 25%. Applied after AC. It applies to damage from melee, ranged, spells, abilities, evocations, clouds, falling down stairs, etc. Drains you on removal. 16:48:52 i think that harm should not be good for all chars 16:48:53 if it was like 1.3x vs 1.2x I could see using it sometimes 16:49:13 I wouldn't worry about Harm asymmetry. We should be sure that it sometimes a good choice, that's enough to make a relevant item. 16:51:00 elliptic: so about a 10% damage difference between damage out and damage in? 16:51:10 -!- Demise_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:51:10 Lasty_: i wore harm for a while in t, because i didn't have anything better and i didn't think i could survive the Drain 16:51:16 I think at 1.3x vs 1.2x it still would be pretty bad but I might be wrong 16:51:43 and then once i could survive the Drain i forgot i was wearing it, and got wrecked for over 50% of my hp in one turn. rip, f---, would not recommend 16:51:44 amalloy: the drain will go away after you clear a level or so 16:51:54 elliptic: yeah i know, but early Tm is hard enough 16:52:27 power creep! power creep!!! 16:52:29 I have tried "Harm with the incoming damage tuned down to 1.2x on my local copy and I found it less terrible than the symmetric version. 16:52:35 My experience has been that harm is really good on chars w/ a strong ranged attack, and not terrible on melee unless you're fighting something like an ettin, where it could conceivably be really bad. On the other hand, I generally mostly die from carelessness, and maybe wearing "harm makes me less careless. 16:52:49 nikheizen: interesting 16:52:50 the harm is bad meme 16:53:16 Naruni: if you have questions you can ask me about stuff 16:53:56 the thing is that having 20% less HP is really bad 16:54:03 and that is effectively what harm means 16:54:12 20% less HP and healing 16:54:31 03|amethyst02 07* 0.19-a0-273-g94fecb4: Return false for unwieldable brands in ::can_wield(item, false) 10(47 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/94fecb4c5924 16:54:31 03|amethyst02 07* 0.19-a0-274-gdb94404: Only give barehanded prompts when carrying wieldable weapons. 10(62 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/db9440454db1 16:54:31 03|amethyst02 07* 0.19-a0-275-gec56d90: Don't warn twice about single dancing weapon (minmay) 10(11 minutes ago, 3 files, 4+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ec56d90484a7 16:54:31 03|amethyst02 07* 0.19-a0-276-g3ff07cd: Describe spectral weapon brands/types when they enter view. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3ff07cd12938 16:54:37 yeah, that's a good point, healing is effectively scaled too 16:55:06 minmay: I know you think "harm is pretty bad -- how asymmetrical would it have to be to get you to wear it? 16:55:25 I'm curious what makes you think you know that, since I don't think "harm is bad and I don't think I ever did 16:55:33 wait, really? 16:55:39 yes 16:55:45 Lasty... 16:55:51 you should have rewritten your post as follows 16:55:55 I swear I heard you say that based on the healing argument. Sorry, it must have been someone else. 16:56:19 -!- Voker57|2 has quit [Client Quit] 16:56:20 robe of vines is the item i think is terrible 16:56:20 Imagine if in dcss, there was a race that got no loot, that doesn't mean that getting no loot is a bad thing, but nobody is going to like the race that gets no loot in a game based around getting loot. 16:56:26 wheals, ok let me look at it for a moment 16:56:27 minmay: haha, fair enough 16:56:34 you can append that with "that race is felids" 16:56:38 CanOfWorms: haha 16:56:58 elliptic: I only played ogres in the tournament, and I was prepared to use Harm there. (When I had a chance, an artefact amulet beat it, but they have so much HP, and I was using a shield...) 16:57:08 Imagine playing a character with no weapon or armour slots in Diablo II 16:57:13 fr: make skullcrusher less spiky looking, because it isn't GSC 16:57:18 (okay its not that bad) 16:57:51 Naruni: something i didn't mention is that OBJ_SCROLLS and so on work as a selector 16:57:55 So in terms of the opinion in the room, I'm inclined to think that the average recommendation I'm hearing is "leave amulet of dismissal as is, but maybe make harm asymmetrical by 5-10%". That wasn't quite what I expected. 16:58:09 what were you expecting? 16:58:19 and in fact OBJ_SCROLLS as a selector matches spellbooks which is a bit strange but how it works 16:58:47 PleasingFungus: I was thinking that I'd hear more people wanting dismissal to change and fewer wanting harm to change. 16:59:09 where's the harm, eh? ha ha ha ha 16:59:17 I want dismissal to change 16:59:18 PleasingFungus: I wouldn't dismiss that so easily. 16:59:25 no harm, no foul 16:59:31 Lasty_: also we talked about dismissal sending things forward in time, rather than a random place in space 16:59:33 minmay: in any particular way, or flat removal? 16:59:37 Lasty_: to amulet of nothing 16:59:46 fixit_friend: wasn't the discussion just you suggesting it and then no one replying 16:59:49 or did i miss something 16:59:54 PleasingFungus: here, here, me too 16:59:57 fixit_friend: I saw that, but I'm not sure how to feel about it. It's an interesting idea, but it has a lot of the same problems. 17:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:05 i was going to reply ("i'm not sure that really helps") but i got distracted 17:00:16 Dismissed! 17:00:38 no one but dpeg, see if I ride his coattails, I become a person too :D 17:00:39 Lasty_: I don't think dismissal is awful but as I said earlier I don't think it is much fun to use either... if there is a change to make it less annoying then that would be nice, though I don't know what that would be 17:00:49 do monks have any interaction with Ukayaw 17:00:51 I really think dismissal is bad for the game since its role is just to save the player from having to deal with an encounter, and make swagjacking a bit easier 17:01:02 implementhepl: no 17:01:06 "swagjacking"? 17:01:16 minmay: That's a fair argument./ 17:01:17 it's when you jack the swag without killing allthe dudes 17:01:29 oh you mean like swagwalk 17:01:30 -!- Demise_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:01:33 hrm 17:01:49 <|amethyst> "jack the swag" as in "steal the items" 17:01:50 I'll do some thinking about how to make dismissal more betterer. 17:02:01 less ungoodplus 17:02:02 But if I don't come up with anything, it might be worth removing. 17:02:02 feel 17:02:04 <|amethyst> since apparently "swag" means something else these days 17:02:37 !source invent.h 17:02:37 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/invent.h 17:02:44 gotta brush up my urban engrishe I guess 17:03:00 |amethyst: people at my company seem to use it to mean something like "wild guess." I'm wondering if someone has been promoting some business slang where it's and acronym for "swing wildly and guess" 17:03:09 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_wild-ass_guess 17:03:12 ah 17:03:14 <|amethyst> Lasty_: that one 17:03:17 ty, wiki 17:03:17 I was close 17:03:28 <|amethyst> Lasty_: I was referring to the meaning that appears to be something along the lines of "swagger" 17:03:33 |amethyst: ah 17:03:36 Lasty remove monk bonus, it's starting to get annoying with all the special casings (and I play monk a lot) 17:03:39 if harm and/or dismissal get removed, will there be replacement amulets? 17:03:42 it's the children who are wrong! 17:03:56 Lightli: only if I come up with good ones 17:04:00 plus I don't want to remove harm 17:04:03 <|amethyst> or maybe it actually is the other use of "swag" 17:04:03 I like it :p 17:04:19 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:04:31 <|amethyst> someone "has swag" if they act confidently, as though they have lots of things, because having lots of things makes you confident 17:04:31 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:04:39 cases* 17:04:45 minmay: :) 17:04:45 Lasty_: there was an idea for a long blades weapon move (akin to cleaving or reaching): if you are adjacent to a monster, and *move* such you are still adjacent to it, you get a free hit in. (Exercise: what does this have to do with Dismissal? :) 17:04:59 wow, deep cuts 17:05:07 Lasty_: re:"Dismissal, a couple ideas I saw(aside fixit's) were making it based on an attempted attack(gammafunk maybe?), not having it trigger for damage<% of HP(idk where, obviously incompatible with the previous), limiting the range of the tele(both a less than x and a greater than y) 17:05:19 You escaped the dungeon! You were not hungry. You had swag. 17:05:41 amethyst it's not about what you have, it is your confidence and charisma 17:05:49 <|amethyst> dpeg: Brogue flails, Sil Flanking 17:05:56 yes 17:06:06 <|amethyst> implementhepl: I'm just trying to determine if it comes from "swagger" or "swag = stuff" 17:06:13 <|amethyst> implementhepl: etymologically 17:06:28 swagger I'd reckon 17:06:39 * geekosaur thinks the latter derives from the former (i.e. stuff that('s supposed to) make you swagger 17:06:42 -!- Kenran has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:06:48 <|amethyst> dpeg: another possibility would be something like half of a brogue rapier 17:07:15 the lunging half, not the {speed} half, I assume 17:07:17 dpeg: if you are barbed you get to proc dismissal more while still attacking the manticore 17:07:18 maces could partially ignore or reduce AC when they hit something 17:07:29 <|amethyst> nikheizen: half of the lunging half actually 17:07:45 <|amethyst> dpeg: if your last action was a move, an attack in the same direction (or within 45 degrees) takes half time 17:07:48 a quarter! 17:07:51 <|amethyst> dpeg: in brogue that would be "free" 17:07:52 partially ignoring/reducing AC can just be accomplished by buffing damage... 17:08:15 <|amethyst> dpeg: my concern about the flanking thing is that there might be times you want to walk past something without swinging at it 17:08:18 s - the +6 spear of Pakellas's Hope {pierce, Str+5 SInv, 17:08:19 Lasty_, PleasingFungus: nago wrote a review about Hep and Uka. Very positive! 17:08:19 re: the lunging - necrodancer has that mechanic too 17:08:20 pakellas's 17:08:33 yes 17:08:34 <|amethyst> dpeg: then again I guess the same could be true of axes, if you really want to hit just one monster 17:08:37 -!- What has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:40 dpeg: link? 17:08:45 there was a long discussion about that 's 17:08:46 see 17:08:49 dpeg: oo, neat 17:08:51 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/crawl-0-18-pakellass-packrats 17:08:51 would crawl flanking let you attack multiple monsters with one move? 17:08:55 PleasingFungus: can't, sorry. Top thread. 17:09:03 (And it is not really positive. German humour!) 17:09:03 is digging degenerate? 17:09:04 if not then I don't anticipate it being very useful 17:09:14 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.19-a0-276-g3ff07cd (34) 17:09:15 i am absolutely making humor illegal. 17:09:24 |amethyst: I am all in favour of stealing stuff from Brogue or anywhere. 17:09:28 sil flanking is very good but that is because of things that crawl doesn't really have 17:09:32 PleasingFungus: +1, makes you an honorary German. 17:09:36 steal from necrodancer, king of roguelikes 17:09:41 prince, maybe 17:09:45 duke 17:09:51 crawl is king 17:10:02 -!- What has quit [Client Quit] 17:10:05 s/likes/lites/ 17:10:11 :^) 17:10:33 scrap that, crawl is GOD EMPEROR 17:10:34 dpeg: we'd have to determine whether the long blade attack-moves were at move speed or attack speed and solve all the related issues; we'd have to ensure that it's not optimal to keep moving around monsters for DPS (breaks tab). Otherwise seems fine. 17:10:36 elliptic: yes, I would think so. Realism be damned. 17:11:03 Lasty_: maybe this is for another time. The idea is old, and our plates are full. 17:11:09 <|amethyst> What about axes? 17:11:13 (flanking hitting multiple monsters at once also avoids issues with picking which one to hit) 17:11:33 <|amethyst> Because nearly the only thing I hear about the axe mechanic is "newbie trap" 17:11:37 |amethyst: huh? 17:11:39 axe cleaving works ok because there's no ui 17:11:47 |amethyst: axes are great 17:11:50 |amethyst: lots of players love axes 17:11:50 now you've heard something else! 17:11:54 including skilled ones 17:11:56 but not me :p 17:12:03 ah, but you're not skilled 17:12:03 <|amethyst> I seem to hear a lot that axes are terrible because they have bad stats relative to the other skills 17:12:09 gammafunk: fair point! 17:12:16 |amethyst: that's certainly how I see it 17:12:21 <|amethyst> and you'd never use the axe cleave feature, because being adjacent to two enemies means you have already lost 17:12:22 axes are very popular 17:12:27 in my experience and from what i've seen 17:12:33 <|amethyst> s/have already lost/are already playing badly/ 17:12:39 please don't fixate on hypothetical optimal goofs 17:12:55 |amethyst: those players quit out of shame whenever they have to fight adjacent to two enemies, yes 17:12:59 what i've seen is that *1h axes* are generally considered a bit bad 17:12:59 |amethyst: axes do allow for a more reckless playstyle, which a lot of people enjoy. That's aside from whether they're good weapons or not when used less recklessly. 17:13:04 * geekosaur finds that there are some "good"players who insist axes are bad, and others that insist that they are ideal 17:13:07 axe discussions were more fun with 1kb around 17:13:08 elliptic: Crawl Samurai Code 17:13:24 geekosaur: this is perfect! 17:13:28 don't commit sokoban, pleasingfungus 17:13:40 carry around one axe to fight enemies, and another to hit ^Q with if you actually trigger cleaving 17:13:40 it's not worth it 17:13:48 I talked to bhaak yesterday, Nethack will keep Sokoban. 17:13:50 !commit sudoku 17:13:50 03PleasingFungus ⛐ 0.19-a0-168-g5b0a7a6: sudoku 10(in the future, 21 files, 808+ 378-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/commit.png?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5b0a7a6 17:13:53 combine with the echo chamber effect in some venues, and... which one you hear depends on who's louder at the moment 17:13:55 CanOfWorms: well, they committed labyrinths 17:14:00 PF; noooooooo!!! 17:14:15 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 17:14:16 The build was fixed. (master - 1035a83 #5589 : Shmuale Mark): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/132915593 17:14:17 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 17:14:27 why is it always assumed that 2 enemies next to you results from a mistake from the player 17:14:34 I think some people might mistakenly believe it's good to fight multiple dangerous monsters at once all the time because cleave damage exists 17:14:45 |amethyst: i think that's a discussion very specifically about the weapon 'broad axe' rather than the category of axes generally, though 17:14:53 but as long as you recognize when it's bad to use cleave 17:14:54 only some "optimalgoodplayer(tm)" who never encountered a curse toe can think that 17:15:12 or something coming from the other side of the corridor 17:15:24 or teleport trap... 17:15:26 etc... 17:15:27 yeah, i feel like a lot of Axechat(tm) ends up wandering into the two extremes of cleaving 17:15:32 PleasingFungus: you lied about the level of positivity nago has! 17:15:45 Lasty_: am i dpeg, now? 17:15:55 yes 17:15:56 need to brush up on my deutschesprache 17:16:05 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 17:16:08 dpleasingfungus 17:16:15 Lasty_: it was me! And it is only because I have a very positive personality. I see good even in the most crooked souls. 17:16:16 s/d/dis/ 17:16:20 PleasingFungus: uh, I suppose not. But to be fair, I can't read. 17:16:21 wow, crooked soul 17:16:23 brutal 17:16:26 dpeg: haha 17:16:36 * dpeg sends PleasingFungus some cooked souls. 17:16:59 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:17:01 don't let anyone fool you, the new gods are fun 17:17:06 "[nago] was so crooked that he needed servants to help him screw his pants on every morning" -- dpeg, probably 17:17:10 also, nago is using "fuck" more often than anyone else 17:17:19 where are you even finding this stuff 17:17:37 nago is good 17:17:39 and thanking 17:17:41 I like his thanks 17:17:48 *at thanking 17:17:55 oh, i see it 17:17:56 gammafunk: you would sell out for thanks! 17:17:56 gdd 17:18:15 i have a policy of not reading gdd 17:18:17 dpeg: do you mean in terms of ratio? I have a greater number of fucks 17:18:17 dpeg: thanking is an art that few practice well 17:18:52 I had some fucks, but I already gave them all 17:18:54 minmay gives a lot of fucks, it's true 17:19:03 Now I've got no fucks left to give 17:19:07 -!- removeelyvilon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:19:10 * dpeg prepares a lecture about Fuchsian groups. 17:19:13 fr: replace 'thank' with 'fuck' 17:19:33 are those different than abelian ones? 17:19:41 that's the only type of group I can remember 17:19:51 gammafunk: very different :) 17:20:35 other spelling you'll like more: Dmitry Fuks 17:20:58 regarding the proposed nemelex replacement/overhaul plan 17:20:58 I find that goblin vault with a burning cross offensive 17:21:09 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21:11 would all the spells from it only be those you could cast normally 17:21:34 .ocs 17:21:35 41. qw the Cleaver (L10 MiFi of Ru), slain by an ogre (a +0 giant club) (summoned by an orange crystal statue) on D:8 (minmay_statue_hallways) on 2016-05-25 19:06:36, with 3983 points after 7146 turns and 0:06:59. 17:21:37 .ocs -2 17:21:38 40/41. qw the Cleaver (L9 MiFi of Ru), slain by a hippogriff (summoned by an orange crystal statue) on D:8 (minmay_separated_statues) on 2016-05-25 18:55:27, with 3393 points after 8119 turns and 0:07:58. 17:21:41 interesting. 17:21:44 Lightli: yes, exactly. That'd solve my main gripe with N 17:21:51 rip tomb 17:22:00 rip ring of oods 17:22:08 rip summoning a pan lord as an ally 17:22:15 elliptic: I guess qw still struggles with statues? 17:22:20 -!- lordfrikk has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:22:23 Lightli: several card effects *are* good, they should be kept in other, saner places. 17:22:27 dpeg will he still be called nemelex 17:22:35 -!- FunkyBomb has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:22:40 implementhepl: there is no plan. If I wielded universal power: yet. 17:22:43 erm, yes 17:23:04 <|amethyst> it would also probabl be simpler if scrolls and wands and potions used spells 17:23:13 gammafunk: it has trouble with them without trog 17:23:19 <|amethyst> spells could be the one-stop solution for doing magical things 17:23:25 gammafunk: it doesn't have much trouble with trog so I don't know if "still" is really correct 17:23:32 http://www.wowhead.com/item=116138/last-deck-of-nemelex-xobeh 17:23:33 <|amethyst> most wands share a lot with spells currently 17:23:39 oh, ok, no BiA to help out 17:23:46 what would happen to decks, removal? 17:23:49 or I guess even just berserk 17:23:54 somebody at wow is not only a crawl fun, but also foresaw the future 17:24:05 yeah, and it isn't very smart with Ru abilities yet 17:24:25 |amethyst: you are joking, right? The thing is that every players knows potions, spells, scrolls, but for Nemelex you have to learn a lot of extra effects. Nobody else does that. 17:24:43 <|amethyst> dpeg: I mean implementation-wise 17:24:49 |amethyst: ah, sorry :) 17:26:16 ??card 17:26:16 cards[1/2]: See {deck}. Full list: the Alchemist, the Banshee, the Blade, the Cloud, the Crusade, the Curse, the Dance, Damnation, Degeneration, Dowsing, the Elements, the Elixir, Famine, the Feast, Focus, Fortitude, Foxfire, the Hammer, the Helix, the Helm, the Illusion, the Mercenary, the Orb, the Pentagram, the Potion, Pain, Placid Magic, the Rangers... 17:26:26 ??Focus 17:26:26 focus[1/4]: IT DOES NOT INCREASE YOUR TOTAL XP 17:26:28 -!- Rust3dCor3 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:26:35 is focus even still a card 17:27:19 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:27:31 yes 17:27:47 it is a card that made my character very weird some games ago 17:27:57 oh yeah, mercenary card is still a thing 17:28:00 gammafunk: you have betrayed Sif? 17:28:08 I think this was pak 17:28:19 but I found a deck of wonders with a lot of focus cards 17:28:26 that was your komo 17:28:29 you got to like 17:28:30 4 int 17:28:48 maybe even 2? 17:28:50 -!- Athaboros has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:29:01 basically weird things like that happen when Canadians watch my games 17:29:02 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:29:10 fr: make the mist from hepl altar move a little like xom altar 17:29:26 and other altars 17:29:35 oh, did it changed from 'hazy' to 'mist-covered' or some such? 17:29:43 I didn't like 'hazy altar' 17:29:48 wrt the description, not the tile 17:29:49 OBJ_SCROLLS does not return books from item_is_selected 17:29:50 it's hazy atm 17:30:04 !source invent.cc:1028 17:30:05 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/invent.cc#l1028 17:30:19 -!- Ordine has joined ##crawl-dev 17:30:41 <|amethyst> Look around, leaves are brown, and the god has a hazy shade of altar 17:31:04 -!- LexAckson__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:31:05 learn add poetry 17:31:32 gammafunk wait I think I misunderstood what you said, the description says "shrouded in mist", the tile says a hazy altar of hepl 17:31:45 the tile? 17:31:57 you mean the xv description on the altar? 17:32:03 -!- Ordine has quit [Client Quit] 17:32:19 you see a hazy altar of hepl. 17:32:22 right 17:32:24 <|amethyst> gammafunk: the description says "shrouded in mist" but the feature name is "A hazy altar of Hepliaklqana" 17:32:30 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:32:32 !wtf hepl 17:32:32 Unemployed High Elf 17:32:33 if pf wants to add that I can give him the tiles 17:32:34 <|amethyst> doh 17:32:36 I think "mist-covered"...hrm 17:32:41 !wtf hepa 17:32:41 High Elf Paladin* 17:32:43 is there a better way to say that? 17:32:46 <|amethyst> misty? 17:32:50 mist-shrouded? 17:32:54 <|amethyst> enmistificated 17:32:56 foggy 17:32:59 no1 17:33:02 *! 17:33:18 that reminds me, can we come up with a better name for features than "feature"? i remember as a new player i was constantly trying like ?/f throwing, because throwing is a feature of crawl 17:33:19 MISTitcal 17:33:22 what's wrong with hazy (sorry for bad englando) 17:33:39 haze is too generic 17:33:42 <|amethyst> amalloy: "furniture" and you don't even have to change the letter 17:33:45 it also reminds people of smog 17:33:52 <|amethyst> amalloy: of course, calling a wall "furniture"... 17:34:00 implementhepl: sort of like saying "an opaque altar of.." 17:34:01 right, I think of a mist as purer and usually a bit more transparent 17:34:15 haze is dirtier and obscures more 17:34:19 <|amethyst> I thought it was supposed to be a reference to "hazy memory" 17:34:20 a smoggy altar of hep 17:34:31 <|amethyst> the description specifically says "difficult to make out clearly" 17:34:40 blurred? 17:34:44 oh, also 17:34:55 how attached are people to the current xom altar tiles 17:35:02 <|amethyst> implementhepl: sorry, Robin Thicke made that a trigger word for me 17:35:06 I like the xom altar concept 17:35:07 I want to polish those up 17:35:09 the faces that change 17:35:15 CanofWorms always looked too manly for me 17:35:22 yes basically the concept will be the same, just 17:35:28 xom looks manly? 17:35:36 less rough? 17:35:50 you could make it more mask-like/abstract, I guess 17:35:50 sorr that I set of your trigger 17:35:56 old white guy making faces >.> 17:35:58 also have a few ideas to add to it 17:36:12 but I kind of think it looks mask-like right now 17:36:20 also, iirc 17:36:27 in console xom's altar flashes colours, right 17:36:37 flashes? it's an etc color 17:36:42 so it changes color every ui action 17:36:42 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 17:36:44 yeah that's what I mean 17:36:48 it's not a fixed colour 17:36:51 most altars do this though 17:36:56 I wwouldn't say flashes, but yes it changes color randomly 17:37:08 oh hrmm 17:37:28 most use an etc color that is more limited, etc_chaos or w/e it is uses a lot of colors I think 17:37:29 which altars have changing colours? 17:37:38 only a few don't 17:37:40 sif doesn't 17:37:53 does TSO? I forget 17:38:00 tso is fixed yellow 17:38:03 right 17:38:08 zin? 17:38:10 there's one that is gray / dark red (yred?) 17:38:15 zin is fixed white 17:38:20 gammafunk A brumous altar of Hepl? 17:38:23 yeah some etc colors have only a few choices 17:38:40 and I think dith is currently dark gray to purple or deep blue? 17:38:46 in console, Dith's altar should take the colour of surrounding squares... but I am afraid this is too subtle for players to notice :) 17:38:59 (hard for me to tell, most of my play time any mroe comes after f.lux has kicked in and the blues are all smeared dark gray...) 17:39:09 implementhepl: I guess PF was going for something kind of abstract, I prefered something a bit more tangible. Mist is more specific than haze and just feels more appropriate 17:39:20 but if you want it to be abstract I'm sure there are other cute words you could use 17:39:27 -!- Shard1697 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:39:58 what spells wouldn't be allowed for the proposed Nem overhaul 17:40:01 I was looking for synonyms of mist and it came up with brume 17:40:13 as a poetic term 17:40:28 he's probably like that, since he liked 'rime drake' 17:40:36 *he'd 17:40:39 I could see arguing against rmsl/dmsl, but then again not being able to recast it the second it goes down would make it much less of a "put up at all times" thing 17:41:04 Lightli are you debating the merrits of a plan that doesn't actually exist? 17:41:12 to some extent yes 17:41:17 ok, just making sure 17:41:49 Lightli: sanka want's to allow all. I think that Repel/Deflect Missiles wouldn't work well, for example. 17:41:56 oh, that explains the color change for dith. I always see it in places with dark squares and surrounded randomly by mist or smoke clouds 17:42:17 I would argue otherwise since you wouldn't just be able to put it up the second it expired like normal 17:42:36 so you actually would want to wait until you were dealing with a nasty ranged enemy before putting it up 17:43:26 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 17:43:36 Lightli: read the proposal; the idea is that spells disappear if not used (this can be debated, of course). 17:43:36 the nemelex plan is to remove felids 17:43:52 what about deep dwarves 17:44:02 * dpeg decides to send his c-r-d mail a second time. 17:44:15 Lightli: they can wear stuff. 17:44:25 ??c-r-d 17:44:25 those too, sure 17:44:25 c-r-d[1/2]: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/crawl-ref-discuss 17:44:59 http://pastie.org/10852522 item_floor contains nothing 17:45:48 is it up on the c-r-d site yet, or does that archive take time to update 17:46:06 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:47:25 -!- ldf has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:48:41 Lightli: I just looked into the archive, and it's nowhere to be found, so I resent it. 17:50:12 !tell PleasingFungus You see a brumous altar of Hepliaklqana. 17:50:13 implementhepl: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 17:50:53 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:55:07 still doesn't appear to be up 17:55:11 maybe c-r-d broke? 17:55:31 Lightli: no, because regret-index could talk about Hell-Pan just fine, a few days ago. 17:55:33 no, because it clearly updated yesterday (check the dates on the recent e-mails) 17:55:38 k 17:55:52 maybe dpeg is jut sending it to the wrong e-mail for some reason 17:56:50 i can't quite tell if this is an issue with me being generally laggy, but targeting apportation seems to be incredibly slow 17:56:51 it is a nick in alpine, nothing changed there... strange 17:56:57 it would be odd though since he clearly messaged the e-mail directly 17:57:13 on v:$, manually aiming it around is super laggy and seems significantly more so than my standard lagginess 17:57:50 oh, true for targeting generally actually it looks like 17:57:59 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest14307 17:58:04 dpeg: can you doublecheck the e-mail you sent it to is the crd e-mail? 17:58:13 I did! 17:58:17 odd 17:58:36 is it the same e-mail as the one in the reply to the pan-hell roulette? 17:58:46 since that e-mail went through 18:00:02 yes, it is 18:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:01:53 really odd... 18:01:56 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 18:08:30 oh, slow targeting is back again? thought that had been fixed 18:08:37 (or other people here thought it had been fixed) 18:09:22 Yo! 18:09:30 Who is currently in charge of http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/ ? 18:09:57 miek_: Nap kin, as always? 18:10:18 okay 18:10:21 seems to be a bit out of date 18:10:31 wonder if its just a case of switching branch to 0.19-a? 18:10:39 good night, guys. 18:10:43 -!- implementhepl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:10:56 -!- removeelyvilon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:11:03 !seen Napkin 18:11:03 I last saw Napkin at Wed May 11 00:07:26 2016 UTC (2w 22h 3m 36s ago) joining the channel. 18:12:50 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 18:15:29 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.19-a0-276-g3ff07cd (34) 18:26:57 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 18:28:49 -!- Guest14307 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:30:04 |amethyst: would making it "A spectral dagger of electrocution comes into view." be harder? 18:35:10 inconsistent with the other times it appears i guess 18:39:03 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 18:39:24 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:39:35 -!- ch1llma has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:39:49 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 18:40:22 -!- Xenobreeder has joined ##crawl-dev 18:41:17 -!- regret-index has joined ##crawl-dev 18:42:26 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 18:42:27 The build has errored. (master - 3ff07cd #5591 : Neil Moore): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/132955944 18:42:27 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 18:42:36 wheals, http://pastie.org/10852522 trying to use item_is_selected 18:42:53 wheals, line 6&7 empty the vector even if there are books or scrolls on the tile 18:42:58 it's just item_is_selected, it returns a bool 18:43:08 no need to compare the return value 18:43:19 return item_is_selected(*item,type) 18:43:20 ? 18:43:21 Am I allowed to enter zig in a duhz run? 18:43:28 ??duhz 18:43:28 duhz[1/4]: Win a game by going through dungeon, depths, hell and zot, and nowhere else. You must get all 4 hell runes, kill all 4 hell lords, and kill the serpent of hell. You are allowed to enter temple and any portals, but not abyss (even by banishment). 18:43:34 Naruni: yep 18:43:35 zig is a portal 18:43:46 Okay, thanks. 18:43:46 so imo yes 18:43:53 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:44:15 nemelex, even with the removal of inventory shuffling with deck management, has two issues. one is that the list of effects are not just unique like most gods but are also disconnected from most of crawl- but the other is an aggravator of this in that card effects try to cover _five_ different things 18:44:56 summons, conjurations, buffs, escape methods, whimsy (oddities) 18:46:02 I don't know which I'd want to keep after making them all have random nonsense, but it'd probably help if that was shorter. 18:46:35 wheals, ok so i've implemented item_is_selected and got rid of the command junk. can you explain that second part of your comment better? (Also, you could add the calls to populate_list() and populate_menu() to the constructor, and pass the OSEL to populate_list, so you wouldn't need to store it in the menu either.) 18:47:03 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:47:13 instead of calling those two functions independently, you can call them at the end of the constructor 18:47:26 regret-index: yes, precisely. There is a something (not yet a plan) to use actual standard spells for Nemelex, and to repurpose the good card effects elsewhere. 18:47:44 and then, instead of making the selector a field of the class, make it an argument of populate_list 18:47:50 that latter bit I am skeptical about- it's easy to say and very inexact in what's done 18:48:03 regret-index: the repurposing bit? 18:48:05 yes 18:49:03 The canonical candidates would be potions, scrolls, spells. But I didn't think about this at all (this is all coming from a god proposal of sanka's), and it'd take a long look at the card list. 18:49:42 so it's really not a plan 18:49:45 I would say a good portion could go to xom but making xom have anything particularly active would be blasphemous 18:50:56 I'm not really that fond of solely "actual spells" for a god, either- then one just has a variant pakellas 18:51:05 (hurr, hurr) 18:52:08 regret-index: I think it'd be broader than Pakellas, but it's hard to argue about a hypothetical design. 18:52:33 Just browsing through the card list (?/C.) -- approximately how many card effects would you like to salvage? 18:52:44 also, straight consumable dispersal walks into aggravating inventory issues for _non_ nemelex players :P 18:53:22 <|amethyst> even if it stacks? 18:53:32 <|amethyst> like a potion 18:53:38 wheals, it doesn't like that: item_use.cc:90:23: error: no matching function for call to ‘UseItemMenu::populate_list(menu_type&)’ populate_list(type); for some reason passing OBJ_POTIONS to UseItemMenu menu(OBJ_POTIONS); it thinks it's a menu_type& 18:53:50 I mean in that there would be then more potions and scrolls everybody wants 18:54:05 <|amethyst> Naruni: menu_type is MT_INVLIST, MT_DROP, MT_PICKUP, MT_KNOW, or MT_SELONE 18:54:31 <|amethyst> Naruni: are you sure 'type' is actually what you think it is? 18:54:33 i suspect there's a variable being shadowed 18:54:43 or just mistaken for another variable 18:54:59 yeah there is, dang now im getting confused 18:55:53 <|amethyst> InvMenu::type is a menu_type so that's probably what you're getting 18:56:01 is it REALLY a problem having type as a member of UseItemMenu? 18:56:17 <|amethyst> can you paste the entire function that makes the populate_list call? 18:56:34 <|amethyst> it is kind of a problem, because then you have to go through tricks if you want to refer to the InvMenu::type 18:57:13 <|amethyst> but 'type' isn't really a great thing for something that is either an object_class_type or an object_selector, anyway 18:57:21 <|amethyst> s/great thing/great name/ 18:57:49 ok hang on 18:58:41 regret-index: I might be too stingy, but the list of genuinely unique card effects is not so long, imo: damnation, fortitude, swap, blade, cloud, potion, shadow, tomb -- and I tried to be inclusive. 18:58:57 <|amethyst> dpeg: I think Orb 3 is pretty unique 18:59:05 @??unseen horror 18:59:05 unseen horror (06x) | Spd: 30 | HD: 7 | HP: 31-45 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 12 | see invisible | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 732 | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 18:59:11 no pan lord summoning? :P 18:59:15 these give way too much experience 18:59:21 <|amethyst> dpeg: and there aren't a lot of summons spells that give you ranged attackers like Rangers 18:59:30 <|amethyst> dpeg: unless you happen to be in a branch where shadow creatures does that 18:59:32 water moccasin (07S) | Spd: 14 (swim: 60%) | HD: 5 | HP: 23-32 | AC/EV: 2/15 | Dam: 1008(poison:10-20) | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(20), 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 149 | Sz: small | Int: animal. 18:59:32 %??water moccasin 19:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:06 |amethyst: I was excluding summoning cards, this is true. But for them, it's also clear where they could go :) 19:00:07 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 19:00:13 object_class_type and object_selector are not interchangeable 19:00:29 the summoning school hardly needs anything else >_> 19:00:38 <|amethyst> Naruni: yeah, they're not, so usually a parameter that could take both has to be an int 19:00:43 regret-index: spells can still be improved/replaced 19:00:54 <|amethyst> Naruni: they are set up so that their integer values don't overlap 19:00:55 at last: Summon Pan Lord 19:01:03 -!- tealeaves has quit [Client Quit] 19:01:12 something something sum types 19:01:26 no, if nemelex is divided that is definitively going into xom 19:03:10 damn it 19:04:16 regret-index: this is really my fault. Back when we looked at the existing gods (this is when Crawl had 12 gods, and Zin and TSO looked like twins), Haran and I started talking about Nemelex. I had these cool ideas for powers (Draw Three, Stack Five etc.), and Haran had ideas for cards, so off we went. In hindsight, it would've been better to drop the god right there. 19:04:57 wheals, there are no OSEL_ options for potions. im confused by what youre saying here: rather than a type, it should take an object selector (one of the OSEL_ enums in invent.h) 19:05:10 yeah that was my bad 19:05:15 lol ok :) 19:05:31 i assumed there was an OSEL_ for quaffables; instead you should just use OBJ_POTIONS 19:05:47 as |amethyst said, where an OSEL_ enum works so does an OBJ_ enum 19:05:49 which will be an object_class_type 19:05:50 you had a comparison point base of nine half-redundant runes 19:06:06 yep 19:06:09 but i'll need to make it an int 19:06:27 yeah, since we'll probably want to use this menu in the future for more things 19:07:03 for example if we want to allow recharging things on the ground (maybe not super important but could it hurt?) 19:08:44 as long as there's no concrete plan I'll be fine with what I think is hardly a disaster and keep around notes on perhaps foolhardy slimming 19:08:47 i sort of imagine we'll eventually want to make most/all item prompts work with the floor 19:09:58 regret-index: yeah, it's not clear if anything will happen at all. I agree with your issues, but we may never get around fixing them. 19:10:07 wheals, yes that's why i built the class 19:10:30 but that's why 'm trying very hard to stay away from void bla(int slot) type stuff 19:10:55 what would be wrong with the hand of cards proposal? may as well solve the main issue of tedium if nothing else 19:10:57 and leaning more towards void bla(item_def* thing) 19:10:59 there are higher priorities to try and recruit others into, anyway :P 19:11:23 lightli: dpeg's general problem is the premise of nemelex doing a shit-ton of things 19:11:55 could always make him more focused on escapes and buffs to keep him differentiated more from Makhleb 19:12:04 -!- scummos__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:45 regret-index: I agree (about the priorities). If sanka's god idea works, that'd put some pressure on Nemelex, imo. But it's only an idea atm. 19:13:00 -!- jehoesefat has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:13:27 what higher priorities are there outside of the the Pan-Hell roulette? Ranged combat overhaul? 19:13:44 You aren't getting my c-r-d email where I listed them from my point of view :) 19:13:45 wheals, ok ive taken care of points 1 and 3 in your comments. can i just make todo comments on the 3 functions listed in point 2? at a later time i do plan on going through and hopefully changing most item functions to take item_def& 19:14:18 yeah as i noted it's pretty minor 19:14:31 cool, new patching coming in a moment 19:15:05 (Briefly: (0) single log-in to deal with account griefers, (1) Ko-Ha merger, already discussed yesterday, may not happen, (3) ranged reform, (4) a rule against luring) 19:15:31 "make sure hep and uka actually work" is also around, probably 19:15:34 (2) is extra special suprise 19:15:46 regret-index: yes, but that's not something we need to discuss globally 19:16:07 heh 19:16:16 regret-index: I mention Hell-Pan (which I support, but that's an existing thread already), and (2) is instant pickup/drop (no turn action). 19:17:58 I see 0 to 3, but what would one do about 4 19:18:40 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:19:09 <|amethyst> AI improvements would be one possibility 19:19:17 <|amethyst> depending on what exactly "luring" refers to 19:19:25 Lightli: the mail only announces these. If I start discussing 4, the sun will set (it is one hour after midnight here). Suffices to say that, to me, luring is the single most aggravating gameplay aspect: you should do it, all the time, meticulously, and I have ideas how to make it non-optimal while still allowing players to flee from bad fights. 19:19:26 <|amethyst> I'm not sure the tavern thread ever decided on that 19:19:41 |amethyst: no, and I didn't reply there, because tavern posters. 19:20:09 I'm not sure about "all the time" 19:20:27 elliptic: but only a slight exaggeration, isn't it? 19:20:59 again it depends on what you mean by "luring" 19:21:19 This is something that I am willing to argue very carefully, so please don't let me get into this hastily. We've been luring for years, so a week or two won't hurt. 19:22:20 -!- MarvinPA has left ##crawl-dev 19:22:27 Don't let you get into it hastily, you say? 19:22:33 * gammafunk zaps a wand. dpeg speeds up! 19:22:49 * dpeg passes the buck, just like the last forty years. 19:23:02 -!- Dracunos7 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:23:03 Aren't you supposed to give the buck go Gozag? 19:23:09 sure, no need to discuss it now. but I do think that some of the common "you should lure every monster you see" talk shouldn't be taken literally 19:23:52 elliptic: yes, I know. And the situations where it does not obviously work are really cool. But I've been playing too, and there is a lot of it. 19:23:58 I think crate is probably right how stairs are a large part of whater systematic problem there is, but I'm not really sure how you can fix that and still have crawl 19:24:04 -!- Dracunos72 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:24:37 I would love crawl to be about fewer encounters on smaller maps, but that's again a pretty big systematic change that would break a lot of things 19:24:43 dpeg: I can certainly agree that there is a lot of it 19:24:45 gammafunk: stairs are a thing, but as I see it, I'd lure even in stairless Crawl: there are simply dense and less dense (=safer) places, and better and worse terrain. 19:24:45 0.20's god, clerly going to be wbacktrackicus 19:25:20 a new god for every design flaw in crawl! 19:25:31 You want to fix that design flaw? You play that god 19:25:37 gammafunk: I discussed this a bit with Lasty last week: part of the problem is that Crawl uses the same spatial metric for tactics and strategy. Notice how e.g. FTL avoids this. 19:25:44 gammafunk: +1 +1 +1 19:26:16 dpeg: that may be, but FTL is hard to use as a model for crawl 19:26:28 also the pause-during-combat thing of FTL feels really weird 19:26:38 my point is just that games like this cleverly avoid the problem, by having two maps 19:26:50 a local and a global one, like you said 19:27:02 "fewer encounters on smaller maps" 19:27:25 yeah I see what you mean, but that's a pretty abstract way of thinking about it 19:27:32 like I didn't have an FTL encounter in mind when I said that 19:27:42 that's really just "one LOS and that's all" 19:27:52 * dpeg is used to think in abstraction layers, cannot get over it 19:28:06 a closer comparison might be xcom 19:28:33 from this point of view, ziggurats do it right :) 19:28:41 you get dropped into a map, you have a goal, you (mostly) can't get out of the map without failing the goal 19:28:43 http://pastie.org/10852635 line 13: error: ‘p1’ was not declared in this scope 19:29:09 dpeg: and yet from a lot of other points of view ziggurats do things poorly... 19:29:15 -!- insecticide has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:29:23 elliptic: yes, it was a joke 19:29:36 there was a thing somebody suggested 19:29:43 surely they do having awesome figurines correctly... 19:29:44 about making the elf endvault a portal 19:29:55 imo that would be good 19:30:07 more to the point would've been portal vaults: you could probably get a reasonable game where the players encounters a string of portal vaults 19:30:36 a similar thing could be done with e.g. the crypt endvaults 19:30:43 ontoclasm: as in: only one attempt to clear it? 19:30:46 yes 19:30:54 yes, sounds attractive 19:31:01 fr: in the elf portal, the walls are made of elves 19:31:04 -!- nezrel has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:09 also the floor 19:31:12 i mean, i can imagine someone is going to say 19:31:14 clearly just make every branch end a portal vault 19:31:18 "but then i'll just put it off forever!!" 19:31:25 but you can already do that 19:31:48 dpeg: one thing I've been musing about about adding to crawl is "proper" passage of golubrias 19:31:57 * dpeg pulls out old notes titled Rune Lock 2 19:32:01 at least as a portal you can't just take 100,000 turns drawing exactly one elf out at a time and killing it on E:2 19:32:13 dpeg: probably one-way to start, but maybe two-way, where the pathfinding knows about the end locations when you visit the passage 19:32:19 ontoclasm: you don't have to convince me, the idea has a lot of appeal! 19:32:28 sort of like how hatches are when you take them 19:32:38 i'm convincing myself i guess 19:32:39 -!- namelastname112 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:32:57 gammafunk: would it replace current Golubria? 19:33:08 dpeg: no, that would still use temporary portal, if you mean the spell 19:33:16 ontoclasm: testing it on a branch end without rune sounds alright 19:33:37 this would be for moving around within level in a way that didn't involve breaking autotravel/autoexplore 19:33:51 ah, nice 19:34:14 would allow some fun escapades with the idea that you could try teleporting out if you took a one-way portal into danger 19:34:21 and maybe two-way portals would be useful 19:34:37 but I'd have to see how that would be workable with all the crawl pathfinding stuff 19:35:15 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:38:03 -!- Dracunos7 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:38:46 elf:$ as a portal sounds interesting. would you make the entirety of elf:3 a portal, or just the end vault itself? 19:39:10 probably the portal would just spawn on E:3 19:39:21 or on E:2 and there'd be no E:3, whichever 19:39:39 might be easier to have the portal on E:2, and all of E:3 is the portal map 19:40:29 if that's a success the next step is tomb, right :P 19:40:50 but my stairdancing 19:41:22 what about a two-way portal that doesn't let enemies follow you out 19:41:40 so you could flee if things go south but possibly be unable to re-enter because of all the elves sitting around the portal 19:41:56 that's just a staircase then 19:42:04 well, sort of 19:42:09 an even-safer staircase 19:42:14 k 19:42:18 scratch that idea 19:42:29 (the idea would be it would at least stop stairdancing) 19:42:36 mm 19:42:50 I don't get how it would stop stairdancing, but ok 19:43:04 <|amethyst> That sounds like stopping stairdancing by renaming stairs to something else 19:43:12 <|amethyst> in terms of effectiveness 19:43:31 fr: fountaindancing 19:43:54 <|amethyst> gammafunk: only for octopodes: "You squeeze through the drain!" 19:43:59 dang 19:44:00 -!- WorkSight has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:46:19 it would at least stop you from dragging them up one by one? 19:46:22 yeah this is dumb 19:48:25 -!- regret-index has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:49:46 fr bring back spiny worms 19:50:04 they'll actually be sort of cool now 19:51:49 -!- regret-index has joined ##crawl-dev 19:52:08 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 19:53:49 since slower than normal speed melee monsters aren't allowed to exist past early D or in endgame, clearly the answer for a spiny worm revival is to combine them with non-invulnerable-when-in-walls rock worms 19:54:35 %-% 19:54:35 -!- ZiBuDo has joined ##crawl-dev 19:54:45 i was thinking more like 19:54:51 just have them be normal speed 19:54:54 or higher 19:54:59 were they slow? 19:55:07 ??spiny worm 19:55:08 spiny worm[1/2]: A great worm, hard to kill, with bites that do considerable damage while at the same time strongly poisoning you and corroding your armour. Good times. Removed in 0.15. 19:55:15 yes 19:55:23 unknown monster: "spiny worm" 19:55:23 <|amethyst> %0.14?spiny worm 19:55:27 huh, i'd forgotten 19:55:28 unknown monster: "spiny worm" 19:55:28 <|amethyst> %0.15?spiny worm 19:55:30 spiny worm (09w) | Spd: 8 | HD: 12 | HP: 50-83 | AC/EV: 10/6 | Dam: 3208(acid:7d3) | Res: 06magic(48), 08acid+++ | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 485 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 19:55:30 <|amethyst> %0.13?spiny worm 19:55:37 Monster stats Crawl version: 0.14.1 19:55:37 <|amethyst> %0.14?-version 19:55:40 well 19:55:47 <|amethyst> !learn edit spiny_worm[1] s/15/14/ 19:55:48 spiny worm[1/2]: A great worm, hard to kill, with bites that do considerable damage while at the same time strongly poisoning you and corroding your armour. Good times. Removed in 0.14. 19:56:00 just make them fast 19:56:09 spiny centipedes imo 19:56:12 like a non-banded caustic shrike 19:56:13 "how to fix every monster" 19:56:29 quillipedes?? 19:56:48 acid blob (11J) | Spd: 12 | HD: 18 | HP: 80-115 | AC/EV: 1/3 | Dam: 4208(acid:7d3) | 04eats items, see invisible, unbreathing | Res: 06magic(160), 03poison, 08acid+++, 08blind, 12drown | XP: 2426 | Sp: spit acid (3d7) [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: small | Int: brainless. 19:56:48 <|amethyst> %??acid blob 19:57:00 or a non-spitting acid blob, sure 19:57:33 there's that whole thing where we try to introduce mechanics early on 19:57:43 i guess?? 19:57:48 ??epic bugs[darkness 19:57:52 epic_bugs[14/28]: The orc calls on the powers of darkness! The orc convulses! The orc wizard convulses! The orc convulses! x2 Your body is wracked with pain! 19:57:53 <|amethyst> 32(acid:7d3) is probably not a mechanic we want to introduce early :) 19:58:00 ontoclasm: best example of that imo 19:58:01 disagree 19:58:19 ??ontoclasm[hate 19:58:19 ontoclasm[7/21]: i hate players and want them to die 19:58:32 even if you made spiny worms not slow they would not be particularly different from, say, emperor scorpions 19:58:45 knew I was forgetting a comparison point 19:58:54 well sure at some point every tough melee monster is the same 19:59:24 it's hardly necessary to go that far 19:59:26 @??emperor scorpion 19:59:26 emperor scorpion (15s) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 101-139 | AC/EV: 20/12 | Dam: 3008(poison:28-56), 1509(claw), 1509(claw) | Res: 06magic(60), 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 1629 | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 19:59:31 but new corrosion is good 20:00:01 emp scorps have twice the hp and much stronger attacks 20:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:06 <|amethyst> no corrosion, three attacks, twice the AC and EV, lots more HP 20:00:19 that doesn't mean it needs to go on every monster (I also disagree that it is good but w/e), there are already melee corrosion monsters, like brown ugly things 20:01:32 I just don't see what reintroducing spiny worms would add to the game that existing monsters don't 20:01:41 -!- hellmonk has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:01:47 man it was just a thought 20:02:10 they hit hard and have a neat AF 20:02:23 now that corrosion does something instead of just being annoying 20:02:49 -!- regret-index has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:03:04 corrosion melee still doesn't do very much, see brown ugly things 20:03:52 * ontoclasm shrugs 20:04:11 "minmay considers it basically meaningless" describes like 90% of crawl 20:04:20 if you want players to get corroded more it should be los range stuff 20:04:52 let's call them "stinky spitters" 20:04:52 grunt would like the alliteration 20:04:55 like entropy weaver corrosion makes a difference in ambush situations sometimes, and of course there's slime 20:05:14 i'm fine with them being ranged 20:05:27 but i'm pretty sure that reintroducing spiny worms wouldn't give you anything more than spiny worms 20:05:30 -!- serq has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:05:31 -!- wheals_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:05:54 iron giants could throw the player into pools of acid 20:06:08 <|amethyst> gammafunk: yellow lava? 20:06:12 nice 20:06:16 iron giants spitting acid instead of throwing would be good, yeah 20:07:08 |amethyst, http://pastie.org/10852680 will that work for what you asking earlier? (and another function that takes those two things and returns the item_def* or item_def&) 20:07:23 <|amethyst> Naruni: yeah 20:07:31 or does that need to have index_to_letter? 20:07:49 <|amethyst> Naruni: the indices into you.inv are indices, not letters 20:07:55 k 20:08:05 got another patch ready, gonna throw it up on mantis 20:08:09 <|amethyst> so what you wrote is good, assuming the number comes from item->link and not (directly) from item->slot 20:08:41 <|amethyst> Naruni: one possible tweak might be to have it return an item_def& instead (just change the * to &, and remove the &s on the returns) 20:09:04 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:09:29 <|amethyst> since it never returns null, there's not really a reason to use a pointer rather than a reference 20:09:47 <|amethyst> on the other hand, whether that's really an improment would depend on how it's called usually 20:10:05 <|amethyst> s/prome/proveme/ 20:10:13 |amethyst, there's another function for it: http://pastie.org/10852684 20:10:44 <|amethyst> Naruni: one of those should be defined in terms of the other 20:11:36 |amethyst, i don't understand what that means 20:11:43 <|amethyst> Naruni: e.g. item_def& itemr_from_num(bool inv, int number) { return *itemp_from_num(inv,number); } 20:12:09 <|amethyst> Naruni: so you don't have essentially the same if and returns in two places 20:12:34 <|amethyst> Naruni: just have one of them call the other and either dereference or take the address 20:13:28 "You stop ascending the stairs." should probably be "You stop ascending the escape hatch." when you were ascending an escape hatch and not stairs. also portals 20:14:05 <|amethyst> Naruni: likewise with item_int, for example: pair item_int(item_def *item) { ASSERT(item); return item_int(*item); } 20:14:21 "You stop entering the one-way gate to the horrors of the Abyss." 20:14:37 <|amethyst> Naruni: (or with the if-die instead of assert) 20:14:40 -!- fixit_friend has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:15:09 Various functions for item lookup and return 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10445 by Naruni 20:15:09 -!- fixit_friend has joined ##crawl-dev 20:15:12 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19:22 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:26:39 -!- Cerpin_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:28:41 !lg * ck ckiller=sixfirhy ikiller=xom 20:28:42 473. noob123 the Cleaver (L8 MuCK of Xom), slain by a sixfirhy (summoned by Xom) in the Temple (nicolae_temple_great_sept) on 2016-05-23 20:15:21, with 1400 points after 12019 turns and 0:11:36. 20:31:11 !lm noob123 muck god.worship 20:31:12 No milestones for noob123 (muck god.worship). 20:31:20 !lm noob123 muck br.enter=temple 20:31:30 3. [2016-05-23 20:50:42] noob123 the Chopper (L6 MuCK of Xom) entered the Ecumenical Temple on turn 3713. (D:4) 20:31:51 ugh 20:31:57 !log * ck ckiller=sixfirhy ikiller=xom 20:31:58 473. noob123, XL8 MuCK, T:12019: http://webzook.net/soup/morgue/trunk/noob123/morgue-noob123-20160523-201521.txt 20:36:08 !lg * ck ckiller=sixfirhy ikiller=xom s=xl 20:36:09 473 games for * (ck ckiller=sixfirhy ikiller=xom): 75x 3, 74x 4, 67x 2, 55x 5, 47x 8, 44x 6, 33x 7, 32x 9, 17x 10, 12x 1, 10x 11, 6x 12, 16 20:38:18 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:43:04 deep elf high priest (09e) | Spd: 10 | HD: 11 | HP: 41-58 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Dam: 14 | natural, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, priest, evil, unholy, see invisible | Res: 06magic(80) | Vul: 08holy, 11silver | XP: 1038 | Sp: a.brilliance [11!AM], call down damnation (3d15) [11!AM], malign offering (2d17) [11!AM], smiting (7-17) [11!AM], twisted resurrection [11!AM] | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 20:43:04 %??deep elf high priest 20:43:11 ??malign offering 20:43:11 malign offering[1/1]: A spell cast by elf priests which hurts you and heals their allies. Resisted by rN. 20:43:34 this spell was redirected by Ru and I got these messages: 20:43:41 The deep elf high priest utters a dark prayer and points at the quicksilver 20:43:41 dragon. 20:43:41 The quicksilver dragon's life force is offered up. 20:43:41 The quicksilver dragon is healed. 20:43:52 I'm not sure if this is a bug, but it was confusing 20:45:15 <|amethyst> elliptic: easy to fix 20:45:31 -!- AreBrandon has joined ##crawl-dev 20:45:48 <|amethyst> elliptic: just need an *ai != victim && in that if inside _malign_offering_effect 20:46:38 sounds good, do you want to commit it or shall I? 20:46:55 <|amethyst> go ahead 20:51:08 03elliptic02 07* 0.19-a0-277-g85cb9a5: Don't let Malign Offering heal the target (|amethyst). 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/85cb9a595082 20:57:50 !learn edit malign_offering[1] s/elf/deep elf high/ 20:57:50 malign offering[1/1]: A spell cast by deep elf high priests which hurts you and heals their allies. Resisted by rN. 20:58:04 ...I never even realized malign offering healed anything 20:58:13 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:59:10 same 21:00:00 so if you reflect that spell, does the heal go to the player? 21:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:22 can it even be reflected? I thought it was """smite targeted""" 21:00:41 I assume ru's reflect can handle that? 21:00:59 oh, that reflect, thought you meant warlock's mirror 21:02:14 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 21:03:54 -!- LastStarFighter has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:04:05 -!- punpun has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:04:30 ru redirects, not reflects 21:05:12 yes 21:05:33 -!- wheals_ is now known as wheals 21:06:02 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:06:11 reflected beams (i think) act as if they came from you. so if there were a ranged version of vampiric draining, and you reflected it with warlock's mirror, i would sorta expect it to heal you. but ru makes the monster target someone else instead of targeting you, so that monster is still the source and i don't see why you'd get to heal from it 21:07:26 Naruni: i don't think the functions in #10445 need to have both pointer and reference versions 21:07:51 for that matter i think they should be in the same patch as #10317, so you can actually use them 21:08:46 wheals, i'll put them in another commit in 10317. what do you mean by both pointer and reference versions? 21:09:05 i evidently agree with wheals despite not knowing the subject matter, because when i misread him as saying they *do* need both pointer and reference versions i was confused and disagreed 21:09:13 Unstable branch on crawl.jorgrun.rocks updated to: 0.19-a0-277-g85cb9a5 (34) 21:09:21 i mean you have four functions, two each with item_def* and item_def& 21:09:24 !bug 10445 21:09:25 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10445 21:09:47 you could just have the item_def& ones, and use & or * appropriately to turn an item_def& into an item_def* or vice versa 21:09:50 amalloy: would reflected pain deal a small amount of damage to the reflector? 21:10:17 probably...not? 21:10:32 you take damage as a result of casting the spell, not as a result of it affecting an enemy 21:10:41 or do you? i dunno 21:11:28 <|amethyst> whether a reflected beam does something to the caster or to the reflector depends on whether you use beam.agent() or beam.agent(true) 21:12:07 wheals, i don't get that, sometimes functions call using the item_def &item and sometimes they call using item_def* item 21:12:15 if you try to banish a low HD monster at xl27 with the warlock's mirror, and it reflects and successfully banishes you, do you get banished to abyss:5 or abyss:2? 21:12:39 <|amethyst> Naruni: you can have the calling functions use * or & 21:12:57 if they have an item_def* and want to use the function they can say item_int(*item) 21:14:11 is an item_def* not a type pointer to item_def? how could that function accept an item_def &item? 21:14:47 <|amethyst> Naruni: *item takes an item_def* and gives you an item_def& 21:14:53 -!- wheals_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:14:57 <|amethyst> item_int(*item) not item_int(item) 21:15:19 <|amethyst> (assuming item_int takes an item_def&, and the 'item' variable is an item_def*) 21:16:09 item_def* item and item_def *item are 2 different things right? 21:16:13 <|amethyst> no 21:17:02 <|amethyst> they both declare a variable 'item' whose type is "pointer to item_def" 21:17:56 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:18:14 *item takes an item_def* and gives you an item_def& that's confusing 21:18:41 item_ref& = item_def* *item;? 21:19:11 <|amethyst> let's say you have 21:19:19 i think it might be a good idea to read a tutorial on pointers and references in C++ 21:19:25 not sure which ones are good though... 21:19:42 wheals_, i read them over and over but theyre pretty confusing 21:19:46 <|amethyst> item_def *itemp; item_def &itemr; void somefunc(item_def *i); void somefunc(item_def &i); 21:20:10 |amethyst can probably explain it better than most places :) 21:20:16 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:20:31 -!- wheals_ is now known as wheals 21:20:46 <|amethyst> err 21:20:52 <|amethyst> item_def *itemp; item_def &itemr; void somefunc(item_def *i); void otherfunc(item_def &i); 21:21:16 <|amethyst> then you can say somefunc(itemp); or otherfunc(itemr); 21:22:05 Naruni: in that example (item_ref& x = ...), an item_def& is an alias, an item_def is a copy, an item_def* is a pointer. references and pointers are similar, but pointers let you do things that make more sense with arrays than with individual items; so in C++ references are preferred when you aren't actually using it as an array 21:22:32 yes that i understand. wouldn't item_def &itemr; not compile because it is reference to nonexistant object? 21:22:45 used just like that, yes 21:22:49 geekosaur, item_def is a copy? 21:22:52 because it has nothing to be aliased to 21:22:53 <|amethyst> yeah, you'd actually have to say item_def &itemr = mitm[foo]; 21:23:02 if you say item_def x = ...some item_def here... 21:23:10 then x is a *copy* of the item_def 21:23:17 if you change it, the original stays the same 21:23:28 if you say item_def& x = ...some item_def here... 21:23:36 then x is an alias; changes to x change the original item_def 21:25:11 and that's why pointers and references are similar? why would there need to be a pointer if you can use the reference? 21:25:29 <|amethyst> two reasons to have pointers 21:25:32 (that said, there are complications when the thing you copied contains other things, which gets into "shallow copy" vs. "deep copy"; this is a shallow copy) 21:25:37 <|amethyst> 1. the array thing geekosaur mentioned 21:26:04 <|amethyst> 2. once a reference aliases a particular thing, it can never change... it's always an alias to that thing 21:26:19 <|amethyst> and, a reference has to point to a thing 21:26:34 <|amethyst> whereas a pointer can be nullptr, which points to nothing 21:26:40 3. pointers were inherited from C :P 21:27:00 <|amethyst> well, that too 21:27:20 <|amethyst> which is why many places in our code use pointers where references would make just as much sense 21:27:21 when you talk about array thing, do you mean like a vector of item_def* would be easier to work with than a vector of item_def& 21:27:36 <|amethyst> Naruni: no, that's actually because of 2. 21:27:52 if you have item_def foo[5], the type of foo is (item_def*) 21:28:01 the array thing is that in C/older C++ you can't pass arrays around directly 21:28:01 <|amethyst> no 21:28:01 oh 21:28:07 <|amethyst> foo decays into item_def* 21:28:22 <|amethyst> oh 21:28:26 (you can use std::array now but it's not perfect) 21:28:30 <|amethyst> unless it's an argument to a function 21:28:59 if you then pass that to a function as x, x can be used to index into foo. references can't do that; if you try to increment the reference, you would be trying to increment the thing the references is aliased to, which is probably a type error and almost certainly not what you intended 21:29:20 *the reference is 21:30:04 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:30:08 <|amethyst> wheals: what's really great is when you have a function taking a reference to an array 21:30:17 <|amethyst> which probably only comes up with templates 21:30:22 <|amethyst> or auto maybe 21:30:24 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 21:30:27 and yes, C doesn't actually support passing arrays around, and C++ inherited enough of the suckage that it's still unreliable about it 21:30:45 but a vector is different because it's an object that keeps the pointer hidden inside itself 21:31:08 (which then leads you into a different class of confusion...) 21:31:17 soooo... i still don't get what is being asked when having the two functions doesn't make sense 21:31:45 you don't need to have two functions when it's so easy to convert between a reference and a pointer 21:32:05 wheals: pls stop typing better versions of the stuff i am in the middle of typing 21:32:10 heh 21:32:22 that's how irc works 21:33:05 oh, and yes, I left out an "(effectively)" earlier when I was talking about foo[5], because I figured itd just be more confusing 21:33:14 ??irc guide 21:33:14 I don't have a page labeled irc_guide in my learndb. 21:33:20 wheals, when the idea is to return either a pointer or a reference, arent 2 functions necessary? 21:33:41 yes, you can't return both, or something that is polymorphic. but you can always make one from the other 21:33:47 no, because you can have one that returns a reference, and whenyou need a pointer just put an & before the call 21:33:47 so there's no need for both 21:33:53 yeah 21:34:05 <|amethyst> Naruni: suppose you needed to calculate some mathematical formula with the function int foo(int x) 21:34:12 sometimes i think you guys are fucking with my head :) 21:34:17 <|amethyst> Naruni: and in your program sometimes you need the foo + 1 instead 21:34:25 sadly, no, it's C++ that is messing with your head 21:34:29 <|amethyst> Naruni: you probably wouldn't write int fooplusone(int x) 21:34:40 <|amethyst> Naruni: instead you'd just call foo(x) + 1 21:34:51 because it's derived from C, and C is ... intended for bare metal stuff, not high level app programming 21:34:56 DCSS: enterprise edition 21:35:18 <|amethyst> Naruni: the same idea here... if you have an object, you can easily get a pointer to it (that's the "&" operator, which isn't the same as the "&" when you declare a reference) 21:35:23 GodAbilityInterfaceFactoryFactory 21:35:47 <|amethyst> Naruni: likewise, if you have a pointer, you can easily get the thing it points at, with the "*" operator (also not the same as the "*" when you declare a pointer, but related) 21:35:48 (and even so, ANSI C is much better than early C versions that betrayed a lot of their BCPL origins --- BCPL was intended for kernels) 21:36:27 |amethyst, ok so & and * behave differently if they are being used in a declaration or not 21:36:44 <|amethyst> yes 21:37:09 yes. one of the more "lovely" (configfusing) things inherited from C 21:37:13 <|amethyst> type names and declarations (at least the part to the left of the = sign) are really a separate language that looks like C 21:37:15 ...what did I type there... 21:37:17 confusing 21:37:48 <|amethyst> for example int x[5]; means you're making an array with five elements x[5] means you're accessing the sixth element 21:37:53 Naruni, you might look around for a program called "cdecl" (and its C++ counterpart, c++decl) 21:38:13 <|amethyst> geekosaur: I wonder if it's possible to throw C++decl into an infinite loop :) 21:38:26 probably 21:38:46 but anything with help text starting "explain " can't be all bad :p 21:39:13 so in a function, let me see if i got this: item_def func(bool pointer) { if (pointer) { return *item; } return &item; } then if i call func(true) ill get a item_def* back? 21:39:43 <|amethyst> Naruni: no, a single function can return one or the other 21:40:07 <|amethyst> Naruni: just like the foo(x) function I mentioned above can't return both the value and the value + 1 21:40:15 so i do need 2 functions? 21:40:22 Naruni, what was suggested to you earlier is you always return an item_def& 21:40:23 <|amethyst> Naruni: let's say you have just one function 21:40:32 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 21:40:33 The build has errored. (master - 85cb9a5 #5592 : elliptic): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/132998903 21:40:33 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 21:40:35 <|amethyst> Naruni: one that returns item_def& (an alias to an item) 21:40:40 if something needs a pointer from your function, they *call* it as: &function() 21:41:03 -!- Idolo has quit [] 21:41:31 (and yes, here is nmore confusion: the & here does not mean reference, it means "give me a pointer to this value") 21:42:39 (there is actually a good reason for that, but I think it won't make any sense to you until you've had time to sit down and figure out the relationship between pointers and references) 21:42:50 ok hold on the logic for deciding to return a pointer or reference does not need to be in the function iteself? 21:43:02 right, and in fact it can't be 21:43:03 <|amethyst> Naruni: right, because you can convert freely between the two 21:43:28 <|amethyst> Naruni: if you have a pointer, you can get the object (in a way that lets you take a reference) 21:43:49 hm, actually I think you can't do literally &xxx() because the return value does not have a stable address 21:43:59 you'd need to store in a variable and take the address of that 21:44:13 <|amethyst> geekosaur: it's returning by reference 21:44:20 <|amethyst> geekosaur: a reference into mitm in fact 21:44:26 or possibly you.inv 21:44:33 <|amethyst> yeah 21:44:34 mm, right, so presumably it does the right thing there 21:44:46 <|amethyst> yeah 21:45:01 I admit to not ever having trusted a C++ compiler far enough to not try to take a pointer to the stack, or think it' being told to do so :p 21:46:13 (my first work with C++ was long enough ago that compilers were often questionable. and there was no STL and no standard library, so good luck with compatibility) 21:46:39 (oh, and my options were g++ 1.x or SCO 21:46:43 <|amethyst> C++ won't let you take the address of an rvalue like that if the function returns by value 21:46:55 s C++ compiler which was a bad port of MSC) 21:47:04 <|amethyst> *but* it's not smart enough to keep you from returning a reference to the stack 21:47:11 <|amethyst> some compilers can catch some cases of that 21:47:24 <|amethyst> but that's no different from a pointer 21:47:48 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 21:47:48 <|amethyst> s/a pointer/the situation with pointers/ 21:47:51 MSC for DOS, even 21:48:01 item_def& item_from_int(bool inv, int num) { if (inv) return &you.inv[num]; return &mitm[number]; } so if i want the reference i use item_from_int(true, 4), if i want the pointer i use &item_from_int(true, 4) 21:48:03 like that? 21:48:15 <|amethyst> Naruni: yes, except 21:48:27 <|amethyst> Naruni: if it returns an item_def& you *don't* want the & inside the function 21:48:35 <|amethyst> Naruni: in the return statements I mean 21:48:48 ah yes 21:48:55 ok ill give it another go 21:48:59 thank you 21:49:54 -!- Alcopop has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:51:35 ill still need two functions for item_int(item_def* item); and item_int(item_def& item); right? 21:51:44 or no 21:52:42 <|amethyst> Naruni: no, you can do the conversion on the arguments too 21:53:02 ok 21:53:07 <|amethyst> so if you have just pair item_int(item_def &item) 21:53:27 <|amethyst> and you have item_def &itemr = something; item_def *itemp = something else; 21:53:30 <|amethyst> then you can call 21:53:34 <|amethyst> item_int(something) 21:53:49 <|amethyst> (on any item_def really, doesn't have to be an alias) 21:53:56 <|amethyst> err 21:53:59 <|amethyst> item_int(itemr) 21:54:00 <|amethyst> or 21:54:05 <|amethyst> item_int(*itemp) 21:54:16 <|amethyst> the * operator is the opposite of & 21:54:26 <|amethyst> & takes a thing and gives you a pointer 21:54:43 <|amethyst> * takes a pointer and gives you a thing (which you can then make an alias of) 21:55:25 <|amethyst> so inside the function, 'item_def &item' will be an alias for the thing that itemp points to 21:55:50 <|amethyst> (an alias for the thing itself, not the pointer) 22:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:54 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 22:00:56 -!- flappity has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:01:31 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:01:43 item_int(item_def &item) can be called by item_int(&used_item) or item_int(*used_item) because umm &used_item is a reference to an item_def and *used_item is still an item_def? 22:02:08 <|amethyst> you cannot call it with item_int(&used_item) 22:02:21 err item_int(used_item) 22:02:31 <|amethyst> yeah 22:02:44 so then inside the function item is an alias for used_item 22:02:58 <|amethyst> yes, whether used_item is an item_def or an item_def& 22:03:24 i really hope you meant item_def or item_def* there 22:03:31 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 22:03:35 <|amethyst> this call 22:03:40 <|amethyst> item_int(used_item) 22:03:45 <|amethyst> works with these two declarations 22:03:52 <|amethyst> item_def used_item = ...; 22:04:01 <|amethyst> item_def &used_item = ...; 22:04:35 <|amethyst> the first is an item_def, the second an alias for an item_def, and "alias" means you can use them interchangeably 22:05:10 <|amethyst> but if you have item_def *used_itemp = ...; 22:05:31 <|amethyst> that's when you'd call item_int(*used_itemp) 22:06:44 -!- Ladykiller70 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:07:14 oh so inside the function if the function wants a reference, whatever it does to item it's doing to the item_def used_item - but if the function gets called with an item_def *used_item you just need to let it know it's not a direct item_def it is a pointer item_def? 22:07:53 <|amethyst> yeah 22:08:06 <|amethyst> or maybe a better way to put it would be 22:08:11 ok i think that makes a little more sense now 22:08:28 <|amethyst> if you have item_def *used_item; you need to convert the pointer into a direct item_def 22:08:43 <|amethyst> which is what the * in item_int(*used_item) does 22:08:56 now, would that make a copy of used_item? 22:09:08 <|amethyst> item_def new_item = used_item; 22:09:17 <|amethyst> oh sorry 22:09:18 <|amethyst> misread 22:09:20 <|amethyst> that would not 22:09:26 ok 22:09:33 <|amethyst> if your function were 22:09:40 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:09:44 <|amethyst> item_int(item_def item) 22:09:56 <|amethyst> then calling it in either way would make a copy 22:10:26 yeah, because that's a declaration or initializer or whatever 22:10:35 ok 22:10:46 <|amethyst> this is called "call by value" 22:10:53 -!- bencryption has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 22:11:05 <|amethyst> whereas item_int(item_def &used_item) uses "call by reference" 22:11:11 <|amethyst> if you want to read up on those 22:12:01 -!- Lasty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:12:13 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:12:41 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:13:04 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:13:30 does the behaviors of & and * in that conversation stay true to function returns? item_def& bla() returns a reference so i call bla() and i get item_def&. but if i want a pointer i just let it know i want a pointer by *bla() and i get an item_def*? 22:13:52 <|amethyst> Naruni: other way around though 22:13:55 <|amethyst> Naruni: err 22:14:00 <|amethyst> Naruni: sorry, I mean & not * 22:14:11 hmm? 22:14:14 <|amethyst> Naruni: because with the argument you had to convert *from* a pointer to a reference 22:14:22 <|amethyst> but here you have to convert from a reference to a pointer 22:16:08 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 22:16:47 <|amethyst> Naruni: inappropriate example that I'll never get to use with my college students 22:16:56 <|amethyst> Naruni: let's pretend a reference has clothes on and a pointer is naked 22:17:32 <|amethyst> okay, no, this metaphor probably isn't going to work very well :) 22:19:15 -!- staplegun has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:19:36 -!- JimmahDean has quit [] 22:19:45 is there a good way I can make the game force_more when there is a xom act 22:19:57 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:12 -!- NotKintak has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:21:05 -!- fruitloops7 has quit [Client Quit] 22:23:49 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 22:24:38 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 22:24:41 -!- eliotn has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:25:35 minmay: someone was asking about a script that reacts to a message in the subreddit recently 22:26:16 oh and there was this too 22:26:17 https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/4kuz67/skill_alert_lua_script/ 22:26:17 well, you can force_more all the xom act messages but there are a lot 22:26:28 not sure if it can be adapted 22:26:30 incidentally, does anyone know what could cause a permanent neqoxec on orc:2 22:26:50 oh, multiple permanent neqoxecs, must just be a silly vault 22:27:24 neqoxecs vaults now that rmut is gone ಠ_ಠ 22:27:46 <|amethyst> !vault pf_orc_diabolical 22:27:46 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/orc.des#l1917 22:27:49 <|amethyst> "common demon" 22:28:32 the pandemonium end 22:30:26 minmay: is this you https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/4l0ao1/you_open_your_eyes_and_all_you_see_is/ 22:30:51 IMO placing permanent demons in orc is a bad idea 22:31:20 <|amethyst> elliptic: worse than placing them in lair? 22:31:22 aw, I like that vault 22:31:37 |amethyst: yes, lair doesn't have lots of monsters that summon temporary demons 22:31:53 chequers: no 22:32:22 -!- insecticide has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:32:25 the temporary/permanent thing is confusing - whenever I get that vault in orc and see some demons I assume they were summoned by an orc until I remember this 22:32:44 and of course the vault does place some orcs that summon demons too 22:33:05 |amethyst, so item_def& func() won't return item_def* if called via *func()? 22:33:14 <|amethyst> Naruni: correct 22:33:25 is there a way to make it return item_def*? 22:33:32 <|amethyst> Naruni: &func() 22:33:33 if only crawl had a method of displaying annotations on summoned creatures so they were easily distinguishable... :P 22:34:28 <|amethyst> tiles conspiracy confirmed 22:35:05 pf's ruse discovered 22:35:51 if i understand it right, &func() makes the returned item just an alias to the item_def. like this: itemr = func(); itemp = &func(); itemp then is a reference to the item_def reference returned by func() 22:36:29 through some black magic a reference to a reference is a pointer? 22:36:33 <|amethyst> no 22:36:46 <|amethyst> the & operator takes a thing and gives you a pointer 22:36:52 oh right 22:36:53 <|amethyst> not a reference 22:37:27 because it's working as an operator, not a declaration 22:37:30 <|amethyst> right 22:37:55 <|amethyst> and the two uses are mostly unrelated 22:38:26 <|amethyst> one can at least make some silly justification for the "*" being used in the two different ways 22:38:41 <|amethyst> but "&" being used in the two different ways is just one of the confusing things about C++ 22:39:58 <|amethyst> (the silly justification: int *iptr; now the expression (iptr) is a pointer, and (*iptr) is an int: so it's cute, you see, the declaration says that *iptr is an int) 22:40:00 http://pastie.org/10852784 does that read correctly, especially the comments? 22:40:28 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 22:40:49 -!- insecticide2 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:41:00 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 22:41:31 <|amethyst> Naruni: re the code, I believe you can just return make_pair(true, item.slot); etc 22:42:13 because int *iptr declares iptr as a pointer to an int, but (*iptr) the * operates as a pointer which is in fact iptr pointing to an int? 22:42:21 <|amethyst> I say "I believe" because there are conversions involved, but I'm pretty sure a pair will convert implicitly to a pair 22:42:32 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:43:01 <|amethyst> Naruni: in the expression (not declaration) (*iptr), the * is the operator that takes a pointer and gives you the thing 22:43:56 yeah ok 22:44:34 <|amethyst> re the comments 22:44:42 <|amethyst> you say "either the slot of inv or mitm[index()]" 22:45:03 <|amethyst> mitm[index()] doesn't really make sense to me 22:45:46 why does Ar start have more int than average? 22:45:47 <|amethyst> I would suggest "will be the index into either you.inv or mitm" 22:45:52 no evocables use int, right? 22:46:11 |amethyst, ok thank you 22:46:16 ??zonguldrok 22:46:17 zonguldrok[1/1]: You either want {sword of zonguldrok} or {zonguldrok's shrine}. 22:46:24 ??sword of zonguldrok 22:46:24 sword of zonguldrok[1/3]: +9 double sword {reap, *Curse} (kills with the sword reanimate as friendly undead). All corpses not killed by this sword will immediately reanimate as hostile undead that do not provide XP. Hope you have some permafood (or IOOD or disintegrate)! Even wielding this is bad if you worship one of the good gods. 22:46:42 <|amethyst> chequers: CBoE in a sense 22:47:00 <|amethyst> but no, not really 22:47:22 <|amethyst> but neither do they use the other stats 22:47:43 ??stats[Ar 22:47:44 starting_stats[1/3]: A character's starting stats are equal to species contribution + job contribution. See {starting stats[2]} for the species contributions and {starting stats[3]} for the job contributions. 22:47:47 ??stats[3 22:47:47 starting stats[3/3]: AM 3,5,4 | AK 4,4,4 | Ar 3,4,5 | As 3,3,6 | Be 9,-1,4 | CK 4,4,4 | Fi 8,0,4 | Gl 7,0,5 | Hu 4,3,5 | Mo 3,2,7 | Sk 4,4,4 | Tm 2,5,5 | Wn random | Wr 3,5,4 | Wz -1,10,3 | AE,Cj,EE,En,FE,IE,Ne,Su,VM 0,7,5 22:48:20 seems like it would be a good background for balanced stats 22:48:22 i’m watching a guy play right not and zonguldrok isn’t cursed 22:48:37 and it’s marled as {reap} only 22:48:39 <|amethyst> %git 202a5b15 22:48:39 07MarvinPA02 * 0.19-a0-119-g202a5b1: Don't make the Sword of Zonguldrok passively animate hostile dead 10(9 days ago, 2 files, 1+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/202a5b152819 22:48:40 *marked 22:49:15 oh nice 22:49:16 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 22:49:31 i was half way commenting on the fact that sequell doesn’t tell you that 22:50:24 <|amethyst> !learn add sword_of_zonguldrok[1] +9 double sword {reap} (kills with the sword reanimate as friendly undead). 22:50:24 sword of zonguldrok[1/4]: +9 double sword {reap} (kills with the sword reanimate as friendly undead). 22:50:39 -!- lordfrikk has joined ##crawl-dev 22:51:10 <|amethyst> !learn edit sword_of_zonguldrok[2] s/.* All/In 0.18 and earlier: All/ 22:51:10 sword of zonguldrok[2/4]: In 0.18 and earlier: All corpses not killed by this sword will immediately reanimate as hostile undead that do not provide XP. Hope you have some permafood (or IOOD or disintegrate)! Even wielding this is bad if you worship one of the good gods. 22:51:31 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:51:56 <|amethyst> !learn del sword_of_zonguldrok[3] 22:51:56 Deleted sword of zonguldrok[3/4]: Don't wield it when converting to a good god: The Shining One welcomes you! "You will pay for your transgression, mortal!" 22:52:24 <|amethyst> (that was because of the _ZONGULDROK_world_reacts() function which is now gone) 22:52:58 -!- lordfrikk has quit [Client Quit] 22:53:18 -!- lordfrikk has joined ##crawl-dev 22:53:53 -!- Delmar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:55:23 !cmd !wizrank 22:55:23 Command: !wizrank => !lm * br.enter=wizlab s=regexp_replace(milestone, "entered ((the_hall_of_|the_chambers_of_)([_a-z]+(?=the_)))?(.*)\.", "\2\4") milestone!~~ering?ya|cekugob|mortuary|a_wizard|upun's_lair|cloud_mage's_chambers title:"WizLab ranking ($*)" $* / lg:br=wizlab o=% 22:59:02 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:59:45 New branch created: pull/274 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/274 22:59:45 03chequers02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/274 * 0.19-a0-152-g65774bb: Tweak Artificer starting stats. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/65774bb05dc1 22:59:45 New branch created: pull/275 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/275 22:59:45 03chequers02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/275 * 0.19-a0-152-gab5d7f0: Remove unique names from two wizlab milestones. 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ab5d7f056f5c 23:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:25 -!- Lasty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:01:10 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:02:34 -!- Delmar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:03:24 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 23:03:35 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:06:45 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:06:53 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 23:11:38 -!- tupper has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:12:26 was anyone going to implement a non-drowning-instadeath thing? 23:16:14 did you see the chat earlier about it? 23:16:14 PleasingFungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 23:17:27 only a little 23:17:38 i was going to apply vertigo 23:17:45 but the code for all the suggestions is somewhat similar 23:18:04 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 23:19:10 vertigo was also something elliptic was talking about 23:19:13 did you see my beogh change? 23:20:09 no, i missed that 23:20:23 interesting, you could just reuse that, couldnt' you 23:20:26 !source land_player 23:20:26 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/player.cc#l5079 23:20:56 <|amethyst> hm 23:21:18 !source move_player_to_grid 23:21:18 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/player.cc#l497 23:21:21 something vaguely like that, though sources of beogh water walking & reasons for it ending are more limited, so i didn't feel any need for vertigo 23:21:23 <|amethyst> I guess this would apply to tornado as well 23:21:26 yeah 23:21:34 tornado, flight, flight forms, and ice form 23:21:37 that's my list 23:21:40 -!- VoxSomniator has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:21:55 I suppose what you do is have move_player_to_grid return bool success, and handle that in land_player ? 23:22:05 wait, hm, what are you suggesting? 23:22:06 that should cover the first three, but not the fourth 23:22:18 (maybe) 23:22:22 i look forward to seeing where the player gets put after lom lobon jams you through a wall 23:22:53 sort of orthogonal :) 23:22:56 <|amethyst> hm 23:22:56 to this suggestion 23:23:00 and also possibly to where they were 23:23:07 the abyss 23:23:09 !tell canofworms wrt warlock mirror & banishment: currently it's not implemented for monsters! 23:23:10 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let canofworms know. 23:23:12 !! 23:23:22 hm 23:23:29 'Glimmers of magic persist, and let you float just above the water for a short while" 23:23:33 <|amethyst> I guess you wouldn't be able to evoke =teleport if you are in vertigo-flight mode? 23:23:33 if you banish lom, will he still pursue you through pan 23:23:45 <|amethyst> I think "short while" is misleading 23:23:50 <|amethyst> it sounds like "arbitrarily long" 23:24:06 I was thinking of changing that part too 23:24:13 why don't you just fall in and then not die 23:24:15 i guess then you have a nested problem 23:24:24 what happens when temporary water walking runs out while over deep water 23:24:27 <|amethyst> yeah, we already have that 23:24:36 <|amethyst> flight already warns you when it's about to expire 23:24:47 <|amethyst> adding a second expiration warning and a penalty doesn't solve the problem 23:25:19 pf: you mean monsters can't equip the warlock mirror? 23:25:19 CanOfWorms: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 23:25:32 I don't think letting people fall in is OK, because it doesn't handle the case where you fall into lava 23:25:34 unless all player species get rLava 23:25:49 or you keep lava instadeath, I guess 23:26:06 |amethyst: you can't evoke =tele anyway 23:26:14 we removed that in 0.18 23:26:21 <|amethyst> err 23:26:25 <|amethyst> sorry, I meant =flight 23:26:30 CanOfWorms: they can equip it, but omnireflect doesn't work 23:26:36 ah 23:27:12 while you're here 23:27:22 I'm planning on cleaning up the xom tiles 23:27:28 do you have any affection for them 23:27:32 *xom altar 23:28:19 "A thermal keeps you floating above the lava" 23:28:42 "the laws of cartoon physics keep you afloat. Just don't look down!" 23:29:03 PleasingFungus: how do you feel about emergency water walk giving vertigo in all cases 23:29:25 PleasingFungus: I figure letting people walk on water forever without penalty isn't good, since it would become a tactic in eg cocytus to save on flight potions 23:29:41 zxc: Leidenfrost effect maybe? 23:29:49 and special casing beogh seems like extra work :D 23:30:17 chequers: i would just have lava deal tons of fire damage to you 23:30:22 chequers: i mean 23:30:27 they can walk on water forever without penalty 23:30:40 that's sort of what worshipping beogh means 23:30:40 -!- wheals has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:42 'you feel a warm tingling sensation' 23:30:47 sorry, I mean the temporary water walk 23:31:03 'you smell chicken cooking' 23:31:05 can you describe the abuse you're worrying about? 23:31:16 i am looking at using the same mechanic for the extra drowning cases you mentioned above 23:31:24 "tornado, flight, flight forms, and ice form" 23:31:27 <|amethyst> that doesn't work 23:31:32 <|amethyst> water walk doesn't let you walk on lava 23:31:33 water walk and flying are different things 23:31:34 yeah 23:31:35 -!- Dracunos has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:31:51 oh, rats. I thought it was just a weird implementation detail 23:32:44 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: does the vertigo run out when you step onto shallow water? 23:33:01 <|amethyst> s/does/would/ 23:33:10 pf's imeplementation waits until land 23:33:24 <|amethyst> even with that I have a small concern 23:33:30 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 23:33:31 I guess ideally it would run out as soon as you're over terrain where you don't die 23:33:38 <|amethyst> very small because it's even worse currently 23:33:58 <|amethyst> which is that you might get trapped if you accidentally walk over an isolated floor spot while in vertigo-flight 23:34:30 yeah. You would assume by the time a player has this happen to them they have a ?teleport though 23:34:39 i mean, it's not guaranteed, but 23:34:57 <|amethyst> hm 23:35:06 <|amethyst> emergency teleport would be another possibility 23:35:12 <|amethyst> but I guess that's more exploitable 23:35:14 ooh 23:35:19 -!- Dracunos72 has quit [Quit: Bye] 23:36:06 if there was no lava, I feel the best solution would just be making deep water traversable at 2x movespeed if you fall into it 23:36:09 <|amethyst> currently we have emergency teleport of monsters, I think not of players 23:36:46 <|amethyst> chequers: that's essentially shallow water, isn't it? 23:37:04 yes, just not normall traversable, only in the emergency case 23:37:29 but, it's not a solution that generalises to lava, and it seems excessive to replace all lava with water :) 23:38:31 <|amethyst> I would start with (again, if lava weren't a problem) 2x movedelay and no spells or melee 23:38:45 <|amethyst> (or ranged) 23:39:09 so you can !flight or ?teleport, yeah 23:39:21 obviously lava should act like deep water but also sticky flame you 23:39:23 <|amethyst> but I guess that sucks if you get surrounded by monsters 23:39:52 well, I guess I'm pretty much implementing that |amethyst, since vertigo is like 'no melee or magic' 23:40:00 <|amethyst> huh? 23:40:06 <|amethyst> I thought vertigo was penalties 23:40:16 yeah, so it's "like" :P 23:40:36 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:40:58 merge shallow and deep water? 23:41:07 PleasingFungus: i think _need_water_walking should also exclude SP_OCTOPODE (not code you wrote, but you were last seen in the area) 23:41:19 minmay: still need to solve it for lava 23:41:25 use dwarf fort /9 water system 23:41:31 split heights into 9 groups 23:41:36 chequers: but then you can make lava act like shallow lava would act if it existed 23:42:04 <|amethyst> chequers: probably can_swim 23:42:31 minmay: with your sticky flame thing? i don't dislike the idea 23:42:41 ...and then someone will find an excuse to use deep lava 23:42:43 ah, i was looking at res_water_drowning 23:42:47 chequers: i am 99% sure that function should not exist 23:42:55 <|amethyst> chequers: since there's also ice form and grey draconian 23:43:17 i am pretty sure it duplicates a function in player.cc or transform.cc 23:43:26 i'm not sure which but it seems *extremely* familiar 23:43:58 man, the logic gets hairy 23:44:16 what happens if flight ends while you're over deep water in a temporary transmutation that can handle it (ice beast or hydra(???)) 23:44:30 |amethyst: the reason that the water walk thing lasts until you hit actual land rather than shallow water is (a) it makes the wording simpler (b) it makes the code simpler 23:44:33 <|amethyst> what happens if you're not flying and ice form expires 23:44:44 chequers: yep, this is the fun 23:45:09 <|amethyst> do you start to fly and get vertigo? 23:45:44 apparently when hydra form ends and you're in deep water and can't swim in deep water, you just get stuck there? 23:46:46 <|amethyst> that sounds like a bug 23:46:49 gonna map this out 23:46:53 <|amethyst> seems to happen with ice form too 23:46:58 neat 23:46:59 well, it sort of makes sense, you can just recast the spell 23:47:06 so it's a low-impact "fix" for instadeath 23:47:10 <|amethyst> except 23:47:13 under current crawl logic, you should drown 23:47:16 almost inclined to leave it in, say you're "floating" 23:47:17 <|amethyst> what if it was /poly 23:47:58 :) 23:48:01 you win 23:48:22 <|amethyst> I think starting to fly is a little weird 23:48:27 -!- JStrange has joined ##crawl-dev 23:48:32 <|amethyst> but then again, the vertigo thing is weird to begin with 23:48:57 <|amethyst> weird to the simulationist part of my brain 23:49:08 ??vertigo 23:49:08 vertigo[1/1]: A short-lived status (3-6 turns) caused by wearing amulets of dismissal. The effect is about the same as wearing heavier armour: decreased EV, increased spellcasting failure, and decreased accuracy. 23:49:14 I mean, the name is perfect 23:49:20 <|amethyst> I mean, getting vertigo and extended flight 23:49:33 'uncontrolled flight' 23:49:39 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: levitation? :) 23:49:41 Little glimmers of magic allow your flight to continue, but it's not as pleasant as before... 23:49:43 your flight becomes wild and unsteady. 23:50:25 <|amethyst> "You fall towards the water below. You miss!" 23:50:55 G - a towel 23:51:14 fuck, i left mine on d:0 23:51:25 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Zi3E9Y4Km8MmIQwhk97gWr8-oM6sFtZPZI4QQ_szqk0/edit?usp=sharing i'm writing out the possibilities here 23:51:41 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I figured the towel was just assumed to be there, like the bootknife 23:51:46 -!- lordfrikk has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:53:17 are there any forms that can walk over lava 23:53:19 oh, bat 23:53:40 and wisp 23:53:44 also dragon 23:54:18 i believe those three 23:54:29 i added an option to your doc 23:54:35 good 23:54:43 i'm testing batform expiriing over lavaa 23:54:55 oh, vp batform doesn't expire doh 23:55:05 go get polymorphed by ijyb 23:55:39 <|amethyst> chequers: note that those are also flying, so are likely to work differently from ice beast/hydra in deep water 23:55:42 ok, ending transformation over lava kills you, since all the forms are flying and you enter the 'land in lava' code path 23:55:43 -!- AreBrandon has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:46 <|amethyst> yeah 23:55:55 <|amethyst> probably those forms over deep water would do the same 23:58:37 gammafunk, is beem well? [26 03:57] geekosaur : i did, nothin happened 23:58:43 ok, here's my proposal: flight ending over deep water/lava -> emergency flight until you go to a square you can land on. Form ends over deep water/lava -> preserve form, apply vertigo 23:58:52 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 23:58:59 (for "!beem help" when it joined their tileschat) 23:59:50 "You focus your mind and prevent the unravelling of your form, but this affects your sense of balance" 23:59:50 ok, apparently it was just slow or something