00:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:44 -!- halv has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 00:08:19 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:09:40 -!- Grivan has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:17:53 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:23:20 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:24:29 -!- jetnerd has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:26:49 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:27:35 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:28:52 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:29:29 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.18-a0-1649-g8d9735b (34) 00:33:49 -!- spriseris has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:36:43 -!- destroythecore_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:43:33 -!- punpun has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:46:27 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:48:03 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 00:48:23 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has joined ##crawl-dev 00:50:14 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:08 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 00:52:37 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:54 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:54:07 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 00:55:05 -!- fixit_friend has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:55:10 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 00:55:34 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 00:55:34 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:56:05 since hellfire is now gone, do we change the vehumet welcome phrase? 00:56:43 <|amethyst> There was discussion of that 00:56:43 I mean, it's not like vehumet gave you hellfire before it was removed 00:56:50 <|amethyst> what minmay said 00:56:54 <|amethyst> was the conclusion 00:57:07 I always assumed it was metaphorical hellfire, not the literal spell that you can't cast 00:58:37 -!- FireSight has quit [] 00:59:35 -!- stickyfingers has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:30 -!- Rust3dCor3 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:05:21 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:06:05 -!- jehoesefat has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:06:46 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 01:06:49 also "let it end in damnation" sounds super dumb 01:07:55 -!- Poncheis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:07:57 -!- Poncheis_ is now known as Poncheis 01:08:41 <|amethyst> and is more a Zin thing anyway I think 01:10:32 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:11:41 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1649-g8d9735b (34) 01:11:41 -!- Rast-- has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:11:48 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 01:18:29 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:19:26 -!- Rast has joined ##crawl-dev 01:23:16 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:26:05 -!- bgiannan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:28:47 -!- Harudoku has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:30:56 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:32:33 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 01:33:43 -!- Erad1cat0r has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:35:06 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:35:59 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:36:36 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 01:42:30 -!- eb_ has quit [] 01:46:26 -!- muravey has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:47:01 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 01:53:45 -!- Jessika has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:55:09 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:00:03 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 02:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:05 -!- ursan has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:12:15 -!- Rast has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:13:05 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:19:05 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:19:43 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:26:10 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:43:34 -!- cesare has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:43:37 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:50 -!- Zxpr1jk has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:47:33 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:49:00 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 02:56:05 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 45.0.1/20160315153207]] 03:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:12 -!- vale_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:13 -!- mopl has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:02:17 -!- Hellmonk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:05:32 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 03:06:28 -!- tripout has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:07:31 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:09:45 -!- Blazinghbnd_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:13:05 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:13:35 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:19:53 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:23:43 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1649-g8d9735b (34) 03:27:04 -!- knu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:27:32 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 03:30:48 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: Reality is an illusion, the universe is a hologram, buy gold, BYE] 03:32:51 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 03:34:06 -!- muravey has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:34:11 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:34:49 -!- DaneiNINE has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:40:55 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 03:43:52 -!- Idolo has quit [] 03:51:52 -!- Patashu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00:09 -!- Dakoteus has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:09:03 -!- aditya has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:20:59 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:25:41 -!- tealeaves has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:27:29 -!- ByronJohnson has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:27:35 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:28:08 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:28:27 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 04:31:50 -!- ontoclasm1 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:34:05 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:51:15 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 04:57:01 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 04:59:31 -!- edsrzf has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:07:18 -!- molotove has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:08:23 -!- Kalma has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:11:28 -!- onmyo has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:18:45 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:20:07 -!- Patashu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:21:03 -!- ontoclasm1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:21:05 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:27:04 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 05:31:17 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 05:32:11 -!- insecticide has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:34:26 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:36:44 -!- ByronJohnson has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:42:24 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 05:51:10 -!- Blazinghbnd_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:52:01 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:04:12 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 06:05:40 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 06:08:20 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 06:11:33 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:16:32 -!- zxc has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 06:17:42 -!- } has quit [] 06:29:06 -!- boopus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:31:02 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:45:23 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 06:54:02 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:10:23 -!- ursan has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:17:35 small bug: if you quiver by mistake a piece of equipment and then wear it, it stills shows in the quivered slot 07:25:13 -!- Galewind has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:25:40 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 07:30:33 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:35:32 -!- inire has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:37:26 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:37:30 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 07:37:49 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:39:46 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:41:17 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:43:07 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:47:56 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:48:17 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:56 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:03:02 -!- spriseris1 is now known as spriseris 08:06:36 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:08:33 -!- debo has quit [Quit: orb spiders :(] 08:20:36 -!- Grivan has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:26:15 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:27:03 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 08:29:46 -!- KurzedMetal1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:43:30 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:55:52 -!- KamiKatze has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:18:38 -!- yesno has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:40:03 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 09:41:16 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:48:56 -!- vfoley has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:49:20 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:51:08 -!- Leszczynek has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 09:57:32 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:02:02 -!- zxc has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 10:07:52 !source cell_renderer.js:234 10:07:53 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/webserver/game_data/static/cell_renderer.js#l234 10:08:25 i don't understand why the condition on fg_idx 10:08:57 if (cell.doll) should be reason enough to draw the doll no ? 10:13:33 <|amethyst> it changed here 10:13:40 <|amethyst> %git b5ca6e1 10:13:40 07edlothiol02 * 0.9-a1-808-gb5ca6e1: Send less data to the client. 10(4 years, 11 months ago, 3 files, 179+ 81-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b5ca6e1f2739 10:14:45 -!- Rast has joined ##crawl-dev 10:14:45 <|amethyst> doesn't necessarily help answer your question... 10:15:57 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:15:57 yeah not really 10:17:46 <|amethyst> hm 10:17:48 <|amethyst> oh 10:18:19 <|amethyst> it looks like the C++ side of that commit changed it to send doll:[] rather than leaving that property out 10:18:28 <|amethyst> and in javascript an empty list is true-ish 10:19:01 yes [] is true in js 10:19:19 but test are not exclusive in draw_dolls 10:19:25 <|amethyst> so I guess && cell.doll is only still there to support old versions of Crawl that don't send cell.doll 10:19:26 so nothing's left out 10:19:33 maybe 10:19:52 <|amethyst> and now it's the $.each loop that handles an empty list 10:20:06 <|amethyst> with the fg_idx check maybe there for optimization? 10:20:09 -!- jehoesefat has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:22:32 i don't see how 10:23:17 -!- nikheizen has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:19 i have dolls dissappearing in my engine, but i guess i'm doing something else wrong 10:24:20 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:26:15 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 10:27:53 -!- } has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:42 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:40:23 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:40:36 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 10:41:15 -!- ursan has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:42:00 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:48:27 -!- breadbocks has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:48:38 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 11:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:20:31 -!- punpun has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:25:10 can't seem to figure out: do i have to keep track myself of cells in LOS or is there a flag somewhere that is sent to me ? 11:25:49 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 11:27:35 !source dungeon_renderer.js:210 11:27:36 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/webserver/game_data/static/dungeon_renderer.js#l210 11:27:54 view = window here i think, but not LOS 11:30:29 or maybe that 11:30:37 !source cell_renderer.js:475 11:30:38 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/webserver/game_data/static/cell_renderer.js#l475 11:31:03 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:34:11 -!- stickyfingers has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:37:39 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:54:07 <|amethyst> bgiannan: map_knowledge.visible(map_cell) it looks like 11:54:41 <|amethyst> !source map_knowledge.js:40 11:54:41 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/webserver/game_data/static/map_knowledge.js#l40 11:56:30 <|amethyst> TILE_FLAG_MM_UNSEEN means "known but not currently seen, or contains a detected item or monster" 11:56:43 <|amethyst> TILE_FLAG_UNSEEN means "neither known nor seen" 11:56:55 <|amethyst> !source tileidx_unseen_flag 11:56:55 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/tilepick.cc#l3630 11:57:20 oh nice thanks 11:59:10 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:01:08 -!- Rust3dCor3 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:02:55 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 12:08:08 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:30 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:03 -!- tripout has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:17:03 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:18:26 -!- molotove has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:18:57 -!- Xad has quit [Client Quit] 12:20:08 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:27:02 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:29:09 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 12:29:57 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 12:33:27 -!- Zxpr1jk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by 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has joined ##crawl-dev 13:18:49 -!- svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:24:41 -!- unthrig has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:26:14 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 45.0.1/20160315153207]] 13:27:03 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:27:30 -!- breadbocks has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:29:39 -!- insecticide has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:31:28 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 13:31:34 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:33:22 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:33:34 -!- Jessika has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:37:26 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:39:56 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:43:08 -!- vfoley has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:06 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 13:54:27 -!- jack has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:27 -!- jack is now known as Blade- 14:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:07 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 14:13:04 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:13:31 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 14:16:02 -!- Kat_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:20:45 -!- kreedzfreak has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:23:27 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:27:25 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:27:39 -!- Amadiro has quit [Excess Flood] 14:30:03 -!- vfoley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:35:17 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 14:40:03 -!- Xenobreeder has joined ##crawl-dev 14:41:32 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 14:46:35 -!- tripout has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:51:22 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:36 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 14:54:16 hexophile (L14 SpCK) ERROR in 'spl-book.cc' at line 115: ASSERT failed: book of 44 out of range 0 (0) .. (int)ARRAYSZ(spellbook_templates) (43) (Orc:2) 14:57:25 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest5875 15:00:00 BOOK_RANDART_THEME, if you're curious 15:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:07 !crashlog hexophile 15:00:08 1. hexophile, XL14 SpCK, T:48496 (milestone): http://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/hexophile/crash-hexophile-20160329-185355.txt 15:04:35 it looks like most callers of make_book_theme_randart() don't check to see if it succeeded 15:06:19 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 15:06:24 -!- Stendarr|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:09:32 -!- ursan has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:10:21 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:12:15 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.18-a0-1650-g2652615: Let randbooks generate w/'conflicting' schools 10(79 seconds ago, 4 files, 3+ 35-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2652615f330b 15:12:24 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:13:47 i look forward to sif muna's disquisition on the flaming glacier 15:13:55 :) 15:14:01 ps this code is bad 15:14:10 i literally never noticed you can't get such books 15:14:37 @??roxanne 15:14:37 Roxanne (028) | Spd: 10 (07stationary) | HD: 14 | HP: 157-208 | AC/EV: 20/0 | 11non-living, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, unbreathing | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 1964 | Sp: crystal spear (3d32), iron shot (3d26), blink other close, b.magma (3d23), mystic blast (3d19) | Sz: Large | Int: human. 15:14:45 i couldn't get any when testing even without the code removed 15:14:57 not common 15:18:11 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:23:01 -!- serQ has quit [Changing host] 15:24:45 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:26:58 -!- edsrzf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:27:43 i really appreciate dec_inv_item_quantity's name 15:27:56 not dec_inv_item_qty, not decrement_inventory_item_quantity 15:28:06 a careful balance of abbreviation and loqacity 15:30:34 Oh, no, you misunderstand. That function inverts the item's quantity during December. 15:34:27 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:34:55 -!- soupcomfort has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:35:46 -!- Query42 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:45:55 ugh 15:46:24 currently god_dislikes_spell_type is checked during randbook creation for the sake of 15:46:30 two vaults 15:46:49 !vault abrahamwl_protected_by_tso_2 15:46:49 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/float.des#l1633 15:46:51 !vault abrahamwl_protected_by_tso_3 15:46:51 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/float.des#l1677 15:47:16 !lg * recent kmap~~protected_by s=kmap 15:47:17 One game for * (recent kmap~~protected_by): abrahamwl_protected_by_tso_1 15:47:21 lol 15:47:28 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 15:47:41 !lg * recent map~~protected_by s=map 15:47:42 No games for * (recent map~~protected_by). 15:48:22 -!- asdasdads has quit [Client Quit] 15:49:33 -!- fallenxxxsky has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:56:33 -!- Cerpin_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:56:52 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 15:59:08 Lasty: Have your plans for ranged combat reform changed at all? 16:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:39 you are unstoppable, lightli. 16:02:49 the king of nagging. 16:02:55 my apologies 16:03:04 it's just the plan hasn't been updated in over 2 weeks 16:03:10 lmao 16:03:12 er 16:03:13 months 16:03:27 there is a plan for ranged combat reform. the plan is to delay it to the next release 16:03:27 k 16:03:31 CanOfWorms: imo 16:03:34 "to infinity... and beyond!" 16:04:26 q: should it be possible for randbook generation to fail? 16:05:23 hm. nvm, actually 16:12:17 it's possible to call the randbook generation function asking for a fire/earth book, and get an air/ice book back. 16:12:21 -!- Amadiro has quit [Excess Flood] 16:13:41 very nice 16:14:03 -!- Guest5875 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:03 Lightli: AFAIK I'm the only dev who wants it to happen, so it'll happen if and when I get the time to make it happen. ETA: ???? 16:15:21 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 16:19:10 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.18-a0-1651-g22122d1: Remove a redundant randbook naming param 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/22122d182a46 16:21:47 -!- regret-index has joined ##crawl-dev 16:24:23 -!- spriseris has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:24:48 fun fact: all randbook generation is essentially book acquirement 16:25:32 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 16:26:22 so I'm fleshing out and deriving through an old idea, looking currently at announcing a pairing of two buffed guaranteed demonic rune vaults (draining_boxes, hall_of_pain, hellion_isle, frozen_over, +disco_hall) place on one floor alongside a couple of appropiate serial-vault style minivaults 16:26:46 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:27:26 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.18-a0-1652-g0ec4408: Don't weight randbook spells by memorization state 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0ec44080ba9e 16:27:30 ...mostly growing concerned over explaining how one can find the demonic rune announced or unannounced and repeatedly as such 16:27:35 demonic magic, probably. 16:27:59 I meant mechanically 16:29:15 regret-index: Would you really need to buff hellion island 16:29:28 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest78836 16:30:20 hellion island has a nominal buff, in that it is getting warning crimson imps and firebats to make it less likely the unaware will walk into the fusillade 16:31:14 ...also I guess it has a minor actual buff in that I'm making the other vaults have fuller sets and thus I gave it a hellephant. hardly matters. 16:34:35 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:34:42 -!- Rust3dCor3 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:35:32 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:36:03 -!- nimitz_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:36:25 disco hall isn't a rune vault is it? 16:36:39 or is that part of the changes 16:37:00 part of the changes, yes 16:37:34 four felt too low 16:37:48 -!- serQ has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:39:45 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.18-a0-1653-gf6c2232: Simplify _remove_nondiscipline_spells() 10(36 seconds ago, 1 file, 8+ 23-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f6c223269883 16:40:40 buffs are involving silly things like eight tormentors or nine ice statues, hrm 16:41:09 *should* randbook generation implicitly use acquirement logic? 16:41:35 we use it as theme in a lot of places, so that feels a little weird 16:41:51 does that mean randbooks + good god = no random necro books 16:42:06 yes. this comes up in exactly two vaults 16:42:12 that's not exactly what i was talking about, though 16:42:19 more about weighting by skills 16:42:23 i'm all for buffing those vaults but if the aim is to make them all scarier (or at least make the weaker ones equal with hellion island or whatever) i guess it's not going to actually achieve much in practice 16:42:26 and seen spells 16:42:34 maybe the demonic rune should just actually be a regular rune, and pick one of the guaranteed vaults per game 16:43:29 since it seems weird to have a bunch of special hard demonic rune vaults but then you can just ignore them and go grab it off some plog or other 16:43:49 to some degree this already exists, is the problem 16:44:03 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:44:04 right, with holy pan in particular for sure 16:44:08 Just Another Plog In The Wall 16:44:29 my feeling is maybe the fancy weighted spell-choice logic should all be in acquire.cc, and non-acquired/god-gifted randbooks should just choose totally randomly 16:44:33 MarvinPA: I'm a big fan of the idea of re-randomizing the Demonic Rune 16:46:13 my main concern is that actually canvassing floors until one finds the demonic rune or diving constantly hoping to luck into it are both very unsatisfying endeavours 16:46:41 agreed 16:46:55 And besides, the abyss already has that feature, more or elss 16:48:26 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 16:48:55 I was thinking that random vaults and this special vault stuff I'm working on can resemble the abyss depth stuff, with the active choice of going for something actively nasty (abyss:5, announced hellion isle) or playing it safe (abyss:3, random lord vaults) 16:48:58 -!- CcS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:59 hmmmm 16:49:17 !lm * cv>=0.16 rune=abyssal s=place 16:49:17 10977 milestones for * (cv>=0.16 rune=abyssal): 7017x Abyss:3, 2393x Abyss:4, 1566x Abyss:5, Abyss:2 16:49:39 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:49:40 that's sort of the case currently in that you usually spot at least one of the guaranteed vaults even if you're just diving randomly 16:49:46 but announcing would make it more so, yeah 16:50:03 less spoilery, at least 16:51:23 -!- bgiannan_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:51:31 !lm * cv>=0.16 rune=abyssal xl>21 s=place 16:51:32 9484 milestones for * (cv>=0.16 rune=abyssal xl>21): 5981x Abyss:3, 2089x Abyss:4, 1413x Abyss:5, Abyss:2 16:52:36 ...I suppose the comparison here would work better if abyss:4 and :5 exchanged possibly-excessive amounts of monster generation for harsher sets 16:53:31 such a fool's errand I leave myself with 16:58:31 pleasingfungus: actually, there's a third vault 16:58:37 ? 16:58:44 I wonder if acquire:sif_muna book even does anything, though. 16:59:05 yes 16:59:15 there are a bunch of vaults that do that 16:59:29 it affects the name & allows rare spells to be included in the book 16:59:39 ah 16:59:46 there are only two acqs by gods who filter spells *out*, though, afaik 17:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:35 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 17:00:38 clearly more when I make this late dith vault use acquire any??? 17:01:42 ...haha, dith's nowhere in acquire.cc. I wonder if anybody has gotten flaming weapons or books of fire under dith 17:02:07 <|amethyst> hm 17:02:12 <|amethyst> so Vehumet titles 17:02:25 <|amethyst> should we use those for Veh worshippers whose highest skill is Conj? 17:02:36 <|amethyst> similarly to Kiku titles and Necromancy 17:02:41 regret-index: relevant stuff is in god-item.cc and religion.cc 17:02:43 afaik 17:02:55 |amethyst: veh doesn't use conj 17:03:01 <|amethyst> yeah, that was my concern 17:03:25 imo no 17:03:30 <|amethyst> or Veh worshippers whose highest skill is Conj, Poison, or an elemental skill 17:03:38 man 17:03:40 <|amethyst> Veh doesn't use those either of course 17:03:44 all this complication lately 17:03:50 why can't we go back to the good old days 17:03:56 <|amethyst> !lg * title=traumaturge 17:03:57 No games for * (title=traumaturge). 17:04:00 get invo from !xp if you want a secret title!!! 17:04:03 <|amethyst> Distinct lack! 17:04:12 <|amethyst> perhaps 17:04:13 no need to give these away to casuals 17:04:41 ...good lord, // whether Xom finds a spell too uniteresting to put in a book gift 17:05:05 haha 17:05:11 it used to be more complex! 17:05:24 what does spflag_neutral even mean 17:05:55 <|amethyst> regret-index: means you get TARG_ANY rather than TARG_FRIEND or TARG_HOSTILE 17:06:14 okay 17:06:15 <|amethyst> and a few other things (Dith won't shadow spell it) 17:06:24 -!- jefus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:06:45 this seems like an awkward context to make xom refuse to gift lightning spire, though. 17:07:00 <|amethyst> hm 17:07:14 <|amethyst> not sure why lightning spire is marked neutral 17:07:34 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.18-a0-1654-ge73a678: Add an additional stat in wiz-item randbook gen 10(36 seconds ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e73a67869514 17:07:41 lawful neutral 17:07:42 like all robots 17:07:58 and I guess animate dead is the most boring of the making derived undead spells (???) 17:08:51 -!- vfoley has joined ##crawl-dev 17:10:04 <|amethyst> that (and lightning spire) might have to do with monster AI? 17:10:06 <|amethyst> dunno 17:11:47 <|amethyst> I'd suggest removing the flag from those spells and seeing what happens 17:12:28 <|amethyst> (also testing with monsters that have those spells; and with the player casting the spells when no monsters are visible) 17:13:16 <|amethyst> for Lightning Spire specifically, since it does have a target, maybe also see about the behaviour of +/- in the targetting prompt. Probably it doesn't actually matter much, since you can't put the spire on top of one of the monsters you cycle to anyway 17:14:15 <|amethyst> that would leave just Dig, Aura of Abj, Corpse Rot, Passage of Golubria, and Inner Flame (already special-cased in the Xom code you pointed out) 17:14:29 <|amethyst> honestly those all sound like Fun spells for Xom to cast 17:14:37 this is about the spells in xom-gifted books 17:14:42 <|amethyst> oh right 17:15:00 I can certainly see xom not liking aura of abjuration. 17:16:07 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: well, corpse rot still sounds like something fun to add to _xom_tension_spells :) 17:16:18 v0v 17:16:44 still need to get around to the expanded xom summon list 17:17:25 !shrug v0v 17:17:26 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ v0v 17:17:40 I got stuck on figuring out if they should scale to level, I guess 17:17:56 are the current ones just the imps? 17:18:26 currently, xom summons 5s, 4s, and 3s, with a slight extra preference to chaos spawn 17:20:20 <|amethyst> oh, I guess neutral on Dig might be what makes casting dig towards an ally not anger it? 17:20:26 <|amethyst> or might be involved 17:20:39 no 17:20:41 that would be beam code 17:20:50 does anyone know how beam code works 17:20:53 i know enough 17:20:55 in this case 17:20:57 -!- Yermak has joined ##crawl-dev 17:21:04 you've delved too deep into the code 17:21:16 :) 17:21:18 was thinking of some random_pick_entry between minor demons, common demons, invitation, chaos highlights, plane rend 17:21:38 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: hm, you're right, it doesn't seem to set anything that beam looks at 17:21:48 beam 17:21:53 oops, wrong window 17:22:09 !source nasty_to 17:22:10 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc#l6248 17:22:27 if (flavour == BEAM_DIGGING) return false; 17:22:43 <|amethyst> ah, but it does affect _ms_waste_of_time slightly 17:22:46 RIP my plans for rock-wall golems 17:22:59 <|amethyst> friendly monsters in sanctuary are allowed to cast Dig 17:23:06 huh 17:23:07 but 17:23:13 <|amethyst> err 17:23:14 do friendly monsters cast dig? 17:23:14 <|amethyst> sorry 17:23:16 <|amethyst> non-friendly 17:23:18 ahh 17:23:21 PleasingFungus: cacodemons 17:23:27 <|amethyst> !source mon-cast.cc:7433 17:23:27 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc#l7433 17:23:41 not that you acn have a friendly cacodemon while in sanctuary, i guess. DTEM maybe 17:23:50 amalloy: you misunderstood me 17:23:53 <|amethyst> (spell_harms_target and spell_harms_area both check SPFLAG_HELPFUL|SPFLAG_NEUTRAL 17:25:10 amalloy: i was wondering if it's one of the spell friendly monsters are prohibited from casting 17:25:14 like animate dead etc 17:25:21 it does not seem to be. 17:25:34 i mean, i've seen friendly cacodemons cast dig 17:25:44 or do you mean while in sanctuary 17:25:54 <|amethyst> you know 17:26:03 -!- vfoley has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:26:20 amalloy: the former 17:26:37 <|amethyst> it wouldn't be so unreasonable to allow friendly monsters to animate dead again, now that it's not permanent 17:26:40 <|amethyst> but 17:26:41 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:26:46 <|amethyst> I guess it doesn't matter, because no monsters have the spell 17:28:15 <|amethyst> oh huh 17:28:26 <|amethyst> I guess friendlies are still allowed to cast Twisted Res? 17:28:42 <|amethyst> subject to the _animate_dead_okay constraints 17:29:29 <|amethyst> shadow creatures reasons 17:29:54 I have an idea for random altar: "Wroship me and take this candy!" 3x6 room, with altar at (1, 1) and an item at (4,1). An item is surrounded by undestructible glass walls that disappear upon worship. 17:29:56 |amethyst: that wasn't the reason friendlies weren't allowed to do it 17:30:33 it was considered extremely annoying to have allies keep animating corpses before you could e.g. take their equipment, butcher them, etc 17:30:37 actively anger a friendly with animate dead to get zombies for more xp, right- 17:30:48 er 17:30:54 you can still do that, surely 17:31:13 seems very niche tho 17:31:15 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: oh, hm 17:31:29 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: oh, it was summons, not allies, that I was thinking of 17:31:33 <|amethyst> %git 2959f234 17:31:33 07MarvinPA02 * 0.12-a0-395-g2959f23: Don't let summons cast Animate Dead or Twisted Res 10(3 years, 7 months ago, 1 file, 7+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2959f2344f03 17:32:08 @??shadow imp 17:32:08 shadow imp (065) | Spd: 10 | HD: 2 | HP: 9-13 | AC/EV: 3/11 | Dam: 6 | 05demonic, 10doors, unholy, see invisible | Res: 06magic(10), 02cold++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 11 | Sp: pain (d14) [06!sil] | Sz: little | Int: human. 17:32:09 -!- mamgar has quit [Client Quit] 17:32:14 rip 17:32:16 <|amethyst> and TR still has that restriction 17:32:27 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 17:32:40 i remember it coming up wrt orc sorcerers/high priests 17:32:42 the issues i mentioned 17:32:59 <|amethyst> yeah 17:33:13 <|amethyst> if only we still had the ally pickup control options :P 17:34:02 what, so they could be broadened to cover animation? 17:34:25 <|amethyst> yes 17:40:07 -!- scummos__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:43:23 -!- Guest78836 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:16 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest22536 17:46:49 funny that sif specifically can't hand out rarebooks, but is the only one who can include rarebook spells in randbooks 17:47:04 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 17:48:38 huh 17:48:52 !source spl-book.cc:1029 17:48:53 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/spl-book.cc#l1029 17:49:01 |amethyst: ^check out this... uh, optimization 17:53:45 -!- Insomniak has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 17:54:47 huh, xom prefers spells with more disciplines 17:54:52 that's... random 17:57:13 -!- vasya_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:15 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:04:12 more spell disciplines means a broader miscast range. 18:04:45 -!- Guest22536 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:01 -!- hurricos_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:06:13 Hey, is there a system for like 18:06:25 If I, a non-dev, want to submit a change, can I submit a pull request or something? 18:06:35 how does that work if at all 18:07:14 yep 18:07:34 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/ and make a pull request 18:07:47 what are you thinking? 18:08:01 Well, there's a one-liner for making Sniper AUTOMATIC_HIT 18:08:08 but I was thinking more fixing mindelay logic 18:08:24 esp for weapons like sniper and dark maul that say mindelay is reached at 28 18:08:28 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.18-a0-1654-ge73a678 (34) 18:09:08 i can't remember if that's true or not 18:09:08 i believe that's intentional 18:09:31 It's a bit of an overhaul but I'm sure there's a way to communicate to the top for the edge case 18:09:45 there's no change to functionality, just a change to what the player is told 18:10:05 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:10:07 I would prefer either saying when that weapon type would actually mindelay (w/ the dark maul at skill, what, 46?) 18:10:24 or saying that mindelay is reached at 27 and this is what the delay is 18:11:22 ??dark maul 18:11:22 dark maul[1/2]: +10 great mace of crushing with altered stats: 52 dam / -2 acc / 3.0 base delay / 1.65 min delay (with 27 m&f) 18:11:29 46, yeah 18:11:50 anyway, both of those sound better than 28 18:12:16 though we don't communicate mindelay at high enough precision to currently give the delay at 27 18:12:27 we'd need to add another point of precision 18:12:50 Yes, I'm aware 18:14:50 -!- Rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 18:14:52 A helper function would need to be used, really 18:15:31 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:15:48 Do I need to fork the repo, or will a local copy I cloned a bit ago do? 18:16:07 Really, my question there is whether I'll need to copy over the repo again 18:16:25 as my internet here is far far slower than at school (we're talking <1Mb/s) 18:16:43 i think you need to fork, but i'm not sure i've ever made a pull request myself 18:16:45 so not sure 18:17:19 could also just submit it as a patch instead of a pull request 18:17:55 ah, true 18:18:05 -!- Rast has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:18:13 you can fork it without having to clone again 18:18:29 just hit github's fork button, and change the remote url of your local already-cloned repo 18:19:31 git remote set-url origin git@github.com:username/rawl 18:19:35 crawl, of course 18:22:23 awesome 18:22:28 thanks 18:22:46 How do you submit as a patch? 18:22:55 err, I can probably answer that for myself 18:22:59 you'll need to use git format-patch 18:23:06 and then put it up on pastebin or sprunge or w/e 18:23:07 or mantis 18:23:53 -!- hurricos has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:24:04 -!- hurricos_ is now known as hurricos 18:25:01 -!- hurricos is now known as Hurricos 18:25:32 Hmm ... Yeah, pull request is likely for bigger things 18:25:32 alright 18:27:03 -!- jefus_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:28:11 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:28:55 I imagine develz has a preferred commit format ...? 18:29:00 -!- jefus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:29:17 ? 18:29:21 No? Alright 18:29:37 I just realized I can just look on git.develz.org and figure that one out 18:30:10 I signed up for GSoC with ScummVM, and they want their commits to be like 18:30:13 particularly neat 18:30:24 you should run util/checkwhite and util/unbrace 18:30:29 and there's a style guide somewhere 18:30:31 SYSTEM_IT_AFFECTS: 18:30:33 style guide yeah 18:31:04 whitespace is easy enough to spot but I'll get to see if my braces are any good 18:32:08 Oh, there you go - multiline if blocks get autobraced 18:32:14 neat script, kudos to whoever wrote it 18:33:33 -!- KamiKatze has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:36:51 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:39:20 More questions - the submessage of a commit (usu. used to describe stuff in full) is done by doing 18:39:38 is that the question? 18:39:42 18:39:48 yes? 18:39:48 That was :) 18:39:54 i was unsure if a second line was coming 18:40:02 ... heh 18:40:20 i generally do "git commit" and add the message after two newlines 18:40:37 ohho 18:40:38 <|amethyst> I usually do 18:40:45 Of course, this thing that I always get when I don't -m 18:40:47 <|amethyst> git commit -m "First line here. 18:40:48 <|amethyst> 18:40:57 <|amethyst> Here's the rest. Blah blah." 18:41:01 I see 18:41:07 <|amethyst> (without the nbsp on the second line) 18:41:28 <|amethyst> but then I often end up loading it into the editor anyway with git commit --amend 18:41:38 <|amethyst> so I can line wrap to a good column etc 18:41:54 all these tips, oh man 18:42:09 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:42:57 <|amethyst> also, not just present tense, but imperative mood 18:43:14 E.g. 'Make unrand Sniper never miss." 18:43:17 <|amethyst> yeah 18:43:21 yeah, I picked that up without knowing it 18:44:55 Alright, that's the .patch file 18:45:00 Now for submitting it ... 18:46:40 Oh wait, the Sniper change was never on the tracker 18:47:46 is this a straight buff? 18:49:12 Yes, but I think it was discussed earlier that it was a straight buff to a weapon that was already down on its luck 18:49:48 There was a debate between whether it should offer a Portal Projectile effect or whether it should never miss 18:51:05 I just implemented the latter because it was my idea and I had no idea how to balance Pproj 18:51:18 down on its luck, you think? 18:51:30 i've not seen comments to that effect 18:51:32 i'm not sure how true that is, yeah 18:51:34 ??sniper 18:51:34 sniper[1/1]: The +15 heavy crossbow "Sniper" {velocity, SInv}. A triple crossbow with 27 base delay. 18:51:45 -!- vasya_ has quit [] 18:51:46 ??triple crossbow 18:51:46 triple crossbow[1/3]: Like a crossbow, but three times as good! Base damage 22, base/mindelay 23/10. Historically known as a Chuangzi Nu. Not suitable for shaving. 18:51:48 A +9 arbalest will perform better 18:51:51 that 18:51:58 is an assertion 18:52:04 well ... hmm, not how sure I am about that 18:52:30 Oh, I know 18:52:37 a +9 Vorpal triple will perform better than it 18:52:57 a +9 triple or +0 vorpal as well 18:53:03 that 18:53:04 those are edgier, honestly 18:53:06 is another assertion 18:53:11 i'm gonna be honest 18:53:28 i don't think fixedarts should be balanced to be better than the best possible non-artefact weapons 18:53:38 i think they should be balanced to be good, and i think they should be balanced to be distinctive 18:53:51 but those are different 18:54:06 Well, .... it could be scaled back to +9 enchantment 18:54:20 sure 18:54:49 I mean, triple crossbows aren't particularly difficult to get one's hands on - I'd put them on par with demon blades 18:54:52 i think that making it auto_hit is flavorful and distinctive; sniper is already pretty distinctive, of course, but it could survive being moreso 18:54:56 i just don't think it needs to be more powerful 18:55:09 No, perhaps not 18:55:09 how common are triple crossbows of velocity 18:55:09 ? 18:55:28 ??scroll of brand weapon[2] 18:55:28 scroll of brand weapon[2/2]: Brands melee weapons to: 19.0% flaming, 19.0% freezing, 15.8% vorpal, 12.7% venom, 9.49% drain, 9.49% electrocution, 7.59% protection, 5.06% vampiricism, 1.90% chaos. Ranged weapons: 25% flame, 25% frost, 16.6% venom, 16.6% vorpal, 10% evasion, 4.2% electrocution, 2.5% chaos. Reroll if same as current brand or disliked by your god. 18:55:30 Just as common, as brand weapon is significantly more common than either 18:55:53 it's definitely easier to find ?bw and a +0 triple 18:55:57 hell knights, just like warmongers (???) 18:56:50 -!- tognito has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:58:06 Perhaps giving it +9 and PProj is better (less abusable with penet bolts), I'm just concerned about whether it should use mana 18:58:14 penet bolts are their own mess 18:58:20 i think auto-hit is more thematic and simpler 18:58:28 A few miles simpler 18:59:23 auto hit has its own advantages as well, esp with AM or against enemies deflecting missiles 18:59:26 -!- jetnerd has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:59:31 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 19:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:05 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 19:00:16 -!- Dakoteus has quit [Client Quit] 19:00:16 I also had the passing idea of trying to give that triple a stabbing bonus ... but that would be rather stupid 19:00:28 no creature should be able to sbl stab with a 22bdam weapon 19:01:05 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:03:00 !send Hurricos the Boots of the Assassin 19:03:00 Sending the Boots of the Assassin to Hurricos. 19:03:21 ??boots 19:03:21 boots[1/1]: Armour rating: 1. They go on your feet, if you've got them. Sorry, one size does not fit all. They come in varieties of stealth (+50 stealth), running (faster movement), jumping (evoke to jump attack an enemy) and flying (activate for permanent flight). 19:03:32 <|amethyst> ??boots of the assassin 19:03:32 boots of the assassin[1/2]: +2 boots of the Assassin {DetectMon Stab+ Stlth++}. Detects monsters and lets you stab with ANY weapon as if it were a short blade. 19:03:34 notably cannot be worn by any creature that can wield a melee 22bdam weapon :) 19:03:47 oh, rats 19:03:49 ??dark maul 19:03:49 dark maul[1/2]: +10 great mace of crushing with altered stats: 52 dam / -2 acc / 3.0 base delay / 1.65 min delay (with 27 m&f) 19:03:51 there's always dark maul 19:03:56 there's always dark maul. 19:03:59 yeah, but if you have both of those you deserve to one shot everything 19:05:14 -!- Culka has quit [*.net *.split] 19:05:14 -!- Cenon has quit [*.net *.split] 19:06:20 Wait a minute ... 19:06:38 what's stopping me from increas - oh, nothing 19:09:39 code review is real, cool, and my friend. 19:09:43 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 19:09:54 Hmm ... 19:09:58 How ... 19:10:05 in /source/art-data.txt 19:10:31 How is it that katana getting BASE_DELAY: -2 19:10:44 .... makes it, whose base type is a longsword, have a mindelay of 0.6? 19:12:10 long sword is base delay 14 19:12:11 because long swords have base delay 14? 19:12:17 katana is base delay 12 19:12:39 ??mindelay 19:12:40 min delay[1/2]: Two levels of weapon skill lower the time it takes to swing by 0.1 turns until you reach the weapon's minimum. Mindelay for each weapon is the lower of 0.7 or (base delay / 2) rounded down, or 0.5 for rapiers. It's also listed on the weapon's description. 19:12:53 It is not a katana ._. 19:12:57 rip nvm 19:13:11 OBJ probably describes which character it ... no, hmm 19:13:49 git grep katana gives me no special casing for katanas 19:14:21 it's a long sword with the listed adjustments to base accuracy/damage/delay 19:14:41 Yes, and so I'm not sure how the BASE_DELAY is impacting the mindelay 19:14:56 huh? because that's how min delay is calculated, see above 19:15:01 Unless ... hm 19:15:03 oh 19:15:13 ... I knew that a long time ago 19:15:18 never mind 19:15:28 thanks. 19:19:19 Can I submit patches directly through https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/bug_report_page.php ? 19:19:42 * Hurricos cringes slightly 19:19:45 doesn't seem right 19:20:00 <|amethyst> you can do that, or make a github pull request 19:20:22 Yeah, I think this is small enough that a pull request would be silly, but I'm still forking 19:20:39 <|amethyst> pull request doesn't have to be big 19:21:00 Fair enough 19:21:07 -!- jefus_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:21:13 (that's how I was looking to do it originally, but now I know how to make patches. Yay for learning) 19:21:16 <|amethyst> whichever is more convenient for you 19:21:56 <|amethyst> the two things (bug reports and pull requests) probably get looked at at different times by different people, but both get reported to the channel 19:22:45 That's fine. Not like I'm going to roll Sniper any time soon 19:23:19 As for making a fork without locally duplicating ... what do I change to connect my local copy to the fork? 19:25:27 <|amethyst> # git config branch.blahblah.remote 19:25:59 <|amethyst> err 19:26:05 <|amethyst> first 19:26:15 * Hurricos is all ears 19:26:55 <|amethyst> assuming you have already forked on github into hurricos/crawl 19:27:02 <|amethyst> git remote add github ssh://git@github.com/hurricos/crawl.git 19:27:05 <|amethyst> then 19:27:23 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:27:47 <|amethyst> git config branch.yourbranchname.remote github 19:28:19 <|amethyst> then you should be able to git push your branch 19:28:24 Err ... what if I've already locally made multiple branch...es? 19:28:29 should I individually config them 19:28:32 yeah I think so 19:28:34 <|amethyst> do that for each of the branches 19:28:36 <|amethyst> yeah 19:28:38 yeah ok 19:28:40 <|amethyst> well 19:30:39 oh, I didn't need to 19:30:51 I could have just set push.default to matching 19:31:03 (I think that's what that means) 19:31:21 <|amethyst> you probably want to replace your "origin" remote then, instead of using "github" 19:31:31 yeah, this explains some things 19:31:39 <|amethyst> since that is the default remote for branches that don't have one specified 19:31:51 <|amethyst> or you can set remote.pushdefault 19:32:16 -!- KurzedMetal1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:32:37 <|amethyst> (but that means you have to specifically set branch.blah.pushremote instead of just remote if you want to override it) 19:33:06 <|amethyst> honestly I've never bothered to learn most of the remote stuff very thoroughly 19:34:47 And I'm lost 19:34:49 -!- ursan has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:34:50 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:35:18 I suspected git remote add github ssh://git@github.com/hurricos/crawl.git wait a second 19:39:00 Either it's working or I'm getting too many failed auth'd out 19:39:04 let's cross our fingers 19:39:56 $ git remote remove github 19:40:10 $ git remote add github ssh://git@github.com/hurricos/crawl 19:40:12 instead of crawl.git 19:40:24 Eh, nothing out of it 19:40:25 -!- Blazinghbnd_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:40:59 hrm 19:41:16 -!- KurzedMetal2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:42:11 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:44:01 i suggested much earlier: $ git remote set-url origin git@github.com:hurricos/crawl 19:44:51 which is really the only step you have to do after forking 19:45:07 ah! 19:45:18 see I was trying to work out set-url 19:45:19 as you spoke 19:45:41 git@github.com:hurricos/crawl 19:45:44 or git@github.com/hurricos/crawl 19:46:08 definitely a : 19:46:23 if you were using ssh:// there'd probly be a / 19:46:26 ok 19:46:39 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:48:16 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:51:35 There it goes 19:51:45 That wasn't too hard 19:51:56 I instead did 19:52:54 $ git remote set-url origin https://github.com/hurricos/crawl.git 19:53:20 then pulled (damn PF and his high productivity) 19:53:21 then pushed 19:53:36 that should be fine too if you're set up to push over https 19:53:48 Oh. Why wouldn't I be? 19:54:02 I mean, I subsequently $git push origin master 19:54:06 $ git push origin true_sniper 19:54:41 'ed - and without error, and I can see them in my repo in the online interface 19:54:49 so I -think- it works now 19:55:05 sure, so you're set up to do so 19:55:12 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.18-a0-1655-ge2d8d33: Revert "Remove a redundant randbook naming param" 10(53 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e2d8d333a38c 19:55:40 i'm not; i use ssh urls for everything and i'm always surprised to learn how many people don't 19:55:54 glurgh, trying to place the serial vault in http://sprunge.us/WFUZ gets a loat of errors from pan_highlights_setup() and dungeon.lua's dgn.place_maps() 19:55:55 not to say there's anything wrong with it 19:56:22 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:56:55 I'm so new at all of this that I can't say I'm doing much more than nodding along at this point 19:57:29 I suppose ssh urls make it so you won't .. have to ... retype user / pass? I have no idea, what's the difference? 19:57:43 yes, i never have to type my credentials 19:57:57 Bingo 19:57:58 Makes sense 19:58:06 so there's an ssh handshake between computer and remote git 19:58:07 i think you can configure https to do the same thing these days, but i don't think it was always so 19:58:10 keys are exchanged and boom 19:58:13 right 19:58:18 all the sense is made now 19:58:39 -!- insecticide has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:58:54 i gave github my public key, and so when i ssh to use git, my computer proves it's me by using my private key 19:59:37 key signing 19:59:47 Wow, this CS degree is already paying off, who would have known 19:59:56 (jokes of course) 20:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:02 Whew, lad. There's the pull :) now I can get working on the Mask of Silence 20:02:17 ... or maybe I should check the wiki first, but this https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=19571 caught my eye 20:02:25 Would be neato to have a way to be immune to silence 20:02:35 heh 20:02:42 but if you look 20:02:46 i was actually talking about the OP's idea a week or two ago 20:02:55 Mask of Silence {rSil -Wiz Int+3 +Sil *Curse} 20:02:57 the problem is that 'spell noise' is all over the place 20:03:00 no scrolls + *Curse 20:03:11 It's in two places - at the caster and at the location of the casting 20:03:16 now where it happens ... 20:03:20 Which is why I was thinking just 20:03:25 make everything silent 20:03:50 lol @ *curse 20:03:55 and make the checks for whether you're silenced also include whether you're wearing the mask 20:03:59 Yeah, I might just change that to fragile ... 20:04:08 as it encourages scummy removal 20:04:12 ? 20:04:14 (transmute and remove) 20:04:16 ahh 20:04:18 does that work? 20:04:25 it doesn't seem like it should 20:04:27 it would, I think 20:04:31 You can cast spells with it on 20:04:32 and invoke 20:04:34 sure 20:04:48 but, can you remove cursed items while transformed? 20:04:51 so you should be able to meld it, at which point whether you're wearing the mask is picked up by 20:04:54 oh no you just need to uncurse them 20:05:02 ahh, i see 20:05:06 yeah that's lame 20:05:19 So it might just lose the *Curse and get fragile 20:05:25 the idea is that it's a clay actor's mask with no mouth 20:05:35 New branch created: pull/250 (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/250 20:05:36 03Martin Kennedy02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/250 * 0.18-a0-1650-geb25339: Make unrand Sniper never miss. 10(83 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/eb253392a859 20:05:36 03Martin Kennedy02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/250 * 0.18-a0-1651-g95c8865: Reduced Sniper's enchantment from +15 to +10 10(58 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/95c8865bf4c8 20:05:39 as the creator of Fragile, I of course approve of the idea of an unrand fragile item. 20:05:59 wait, what? was that it? 20:06:09 not exactly enthused by the idea of fucking around further with the extremely specific and powerful mechanics of silence 20:06:21 * regret-index shrugs. 20:06:47 Well, I'm not particularly sure 20:07:09 i wonder if it might be more interesting without the exceptions 20:07:16 Without which exceptions? 20:07:19 oh 20:07:23 allowing you to cast and/or invoke under silence 20:07:26 no casting / invocation 20:07:26 yeah 20:07:34 It could also be Wiz- Archmagi- Invo- 20:07:38 (does Invo- exist? I remember it) 20:07:44 it's in a branch somewhere 20:07:52 so, not really 20:07:56 Hmmm 20:08:11 Invocating can go 20:08:32 The idea behind casting under silence was that it took a valuable slot in order to do so, at the cost of your ease of casting 20:08:53 Perhaps Wiz-- would be more appropriate - it'd be an amazing stabber hat either way 20:09:13 imo a much better trog hat 20:09:24 very very strong for melee chars 20:09:27 LOS silence is stab city in current version though 20:09:40 previous versions not so much, there were scummy ways to prevent shouts 20:09:45 but howler monkeys heh 20:09:49 Also not trog city 20:09:52 if you block invocations 20:10:06 Trog invocations are some of the most reliable and powerful of any god 20:10:08 i was talking about the proposed version 20:10:14 I see, I see 20:10:18 it's just that... silence is already a mechanic with high benefits and personal risks 20:10:33 You know, perhaps it'd be better just to provide los silence and permanently 20:10:52 I really liked the idea of increasing the radius of silence when things made noise, but that's complicated and nigh unimplementable 20:11:46 there's really no place for magic to override silence - either you deal with it or not 20:11:51 but LoS silence has its own uses 20:12:09 It trivializes tomb though 20:12:31 elf 20:12:34 The original question I responded to, I crafted my response in order to make it an easily-implemented 20:12:45 Elf has DEMAs which are arguably the most dangerous dudes in there 20:13:09 ??deep_elf_master_archer 20:13:09 deep elf master archer[1/4]: Pretty dangerous, because they're like yaktaur captains that can shoot while standing next to you and have high EV. Moves normal speed but shoots at double speed. If it has dispersal arrows, you are probably going to die. Cannot see invisible. 20:13:14 @??deep_elf_master_archer 20:13:14 deep elf master archer (15e) | Spd: 10 (msl: 50%) | HD: 15 | HP: 61-89 | AC/EV: 3/15 | Dam: 25 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, master archer | Res: 06magic(100) | XP: 2497 | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 20:13:16 no sinv though hm 20:13:33 double rate of fire, 15hd, dam 25, archer flag so higher dam, frequently has branded longbow 20:13:40 they're slaughtermachines 20:13:55 unless you have a decent SHvalue anyways 20:13:55 !lg * cv=0.18-a place=Elf:3 s=ckiller 20:13:58 617 games for * (cv=0.18-a place=Elf:3): 121x a deep elf annihilator, 82x a deep elf master archer, 65x a deep elf sorcerer, 50x a deep elf high priest, 27x a crystal guardian, 26x a deep elf blademaster, 22x a Hell Sentinel, 22x a deep elf death mage, 16x a deep elf knight, 15x an earth elemental, 12x an Executioner, 11x a deep elf elementalist, 11x a deep elf mage, 11x a deep elf archer, 9x a Br... 20:14:08 Alright, -second- most dangerous 20:14:20 Can you search among those chars that could cast rmsl? 20:14:23 o 20:14:25 *no 20:14:28 you can check for rmsl status, tho 20:14:30 I don't recall it being possible, rats 20:14:37 !lg * cv=0.18-a place=Elf:3 s=ckiller status~~msl 20:14:38 No games for * (cv=0.18-a place=Elf:3 status~~msl). 20:14:40 that's an impressive crystal guardian rate for a monster that only places in one of dozens of ends 20:14:42 !lg * cv=0.18-a place=Elf:3 s=ckiller status~~missiles 20:14:43 91 games for * (cv=0.18-a place=Elf:3 status~~missiles): 12x a deep elf sorcerer, 11x a deep elf annihilator, 9x a deep elf master archer, 8x a deep elf blademaster, 8x a deep elf high priest, 6x a crystal guardian, 4x quitting, 4x a deep elf death mage, 3x a Hell Sentinel, 2x a deep elf mage, 2x an earth elemental, an Ice Fiend, a ghostly deep elf sorcerer, a ghostly deep elf high priest, a deep ... 20:14:56 Crystal guardians are truly OP 20:15:00 sample size fading into noise, but you still get something 20:15:01 and I envy their crystalline bolt 20:15:14 Yeah, DESorcs being better at murderizing 20:15:22 then again that doesn't count for the banishments 20:16:11 but yeah, I mean 20:17:04 moving off of that tangent... I don't think you're going to get much traction in snapping apart the entire design point of something as cogent as silence 20:17:10 see: crown of eternal torment 20:18:06 Perma-LOS silence would be more feasible probably 20:18:12 some kind of perpetual silence effect sounds more interesting, though idk about full LOS 20:18:19 hrm 20:18:48 Lots of hrm indeed 20:18:52 on the third hand, locking people off from using scrolls entirely is something we try not to do, since so many strategic effects are in there 20:19:03 ?ew, ?ea, ?acq, etc 20:19:06 ?rc ofc 20:19:11 Right, of course 20:19:17 this would likely be a better effect on a race 20:19:28 hm 20:19:30 speaking of races ... how complex is implementing something ogre-like, I wonder? 20:19:32 sort of formicid-like 20:19:36 Yeah, right 20:19:38 ogre-like how? 20:19:39 wow, -Scroll race 20:19:46 ??djinni 20:19:46 djinni[1/1]: removed race with EP instead of hp/mp 20:20:04 Ogre-like in that it has special gear restrictions and size is all 20:20:07 I wanted to see if I could tackle Grue 20:20:18 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:20:23 - so I could locally compile and play it with my modified tile of the old Fire Giant :) 20:20:32 I wonder if some warnings need to be plastered all over the devwiki 20:20:52 Oh? 20:21:08 even regardless of my contemporary doomsaying it really was a different era 20:21:19 Hurricos: player-tile, imo <_< 20:21:33 anyway, probably not super hard, assuming you just want the troll/ogre equipment restrictions 20:21:38 PleasingFungus: ? 20:21:45 rcfile option for custom tile 20:21:48 wrt fire giant 20:21:53 that and I know the code to tack - yeah, I know how to do that 20:22:02 I know the code to tack on Nightstalker 3 20:22:46 I was thinking of tackling that or .... removing race restrictions from weapons, but honestly I don't know if that would gain any traction at all 20:22:54 doubt it 20:23:05 like, is everyone going to be using gscs? 20:23:09 It's with a delay penalty 20:23:17 based on size differences 20:23:27 oh, i saw that post 20:23:32 It's annoying to find decent weapons and not be able to use them even with significant investment 20:23:37 and the math is complicated but it works out pretty well 20:24:01 E.g. Sp would be able to use a GSC but at 13aut mindelay with 27 m&f (obviously impractical) 20:24:42 this seems like a new player trap 20:24:57 It can be xv'd 20:25:19 "This weapon is almost impossible for you to wield, and will take significantly longer to swing." 20:25:20 etc 20:25:20 etc 20:25:58 The idea in the end is that small races will actually have paths to sacrifice defence for offense, which is a trap in many cases and many others not 20:26:30 !apt sp 20:26:31 Sp: Fighting: -2*, Short: 1, Long: -2, Axes: -2, Maces: -3*, Polearms: -3*, Staves: -3*, Slings: 2, Bows: 2, Xbows: 0, Throw: 0, Armour: -3*, Dodge: 4!, Stealth: 5!, Shields: -3*, UC: -2*, Splcast: 2, Conj: -3*, Hexes: 2, Charms: 4!, Summ: -2, Nec: -1, Tloc: 4!, Tmut: 3!, Fire: -2, Ice: -2, Air: -1, Earth: -1, Poison: 0, Inv: 0, Evo: 3!, Exp: -1, HP: -3, MP: 1 20:26:39 +2 bows <-> can't wield a longbow 20:26:42 ??shortbow 20:26:42 shortbow[1/1]: Like a {longbow}, but shorter. +2 acc, 9 base damage, 1.3 base delay, 0.6 mindelay. Fires arrows. 20:26:44 pitiful 20:27:34 I don't want Sp to be the new Ce, but Ce have their own reasons to be better at ranged combat - better bow apt, better strength, better size relation 20:27:44 A Sp could, under that system, mindelay a longbow at 28 bows 20:28:29 In the end this is all just because I find Sp immensely annoying - they get shoehorned into strange weapons 20:28:53 Which basically just means less availability and more relying on weird tactics like qbl kiting 20:29:43 amalloy: what did you think about it? 20:29:46 PleasingFungus, Hurricos: I'm not a fan of the idea of "immune to silence". 20:30:12 that is why they changed the idea to some wearable form of perma-silence 20:30:13 i think we gave up on it 20:30:16 lasty: regret-index pointed out how strong it'd be in certain situations 20:30:18 yeah 20:30:31 It's not the sil immunity that gets me 20:30:33 it's the fact that ... 20:30:36 well you can be immune to your own silence 20:30:40 i mean, it's not so much that it'd be strong per se as that it'd...dilute the meaningfulness of silence? 20:30:42 idk 20:30:43 which is sil immunity, yeah, but 20:30:59 yes the meaning of silence is what I was getting at 20:31:37 Then again, I imagine it'd change playstyle as much as would assassin boots 20:31:52 Still, it would be better from a higher-risk source 20:32:02 like spellSilence or a god 20:32:07 Hurricos: it wasn't the worst idea i've ever seen on tavern 20:32:10 Lots of things would change playstyle w/o being a good idea. 20:32:46 To the extent silence works, it's because it has meaningful trade-offs 20:32:47 like felids- 20:32:52 amalloy: I mean, I'm just frustrated about playing races and not being able to use x awesome thing I found because I'm tiny 20:32:54 i don't really see the arguments for anyone-wields-anything, but it didn't seem like innately awful 20:32:57 regret-index: felids are their own thing 20:33:12 regret-index: yeah, let's remove felids! Are we up to 3 for remove felids?? :) 20:33:14 -!- crate_ is now known as crate 20:33:15 Hurricos: there are lots of things you "can't" use, even if you technically legally can use them, because to train that way woud be suicide 20:33:16 regret-index: They have so many gimmicks they deserve to be relegated 20:33:28 amalloy: That's the idea, though - you can trade off 20:33:41 amalloy: There's no sharp cutoff any more about what you can and can't use 20:33:52 amalloy: If you find Skullcrusher, you can use it, and it's awesome, for a gigantic investment 20:33:57 so is the goal to make - hm 20:34:07 doesn't that kind of converge on extended characters with gscs? 20:34:10 lasty: you know me. I'd rather have reforms than removals, but I also don't have any ideas for them so 20:34:10 amalloy: GSC/ GC are way too strong to be usable by all races 20:34:13 No, because there's a cap 20:34:19 Mi will swing 0.9s at 27 m& 20:34:19 f 20:34:31 which means it's better to just use a triple sword 20:34:33 i mean, idk how this works out for you 20:34:57 it is an exchange of awkward parameters 20:35:06 But the idea is that if you are using maces and find this amazing club you don't have to say no any more 20:35:13 idk how you get a 'sweet spot' where it's sometimes better to use weapons that are oversized for your species, but it's not *always* better to do so in extended 20:35:13 it's more fixing the immense problems with small races 20:35:26 imo the problem with small races begins with spriggan movement speed 20:35:41 PleasingFungus: It's which characters it applies to at different points in the game 20:35:48 spriggan movement speed paired with having so low health to incentivize abusing it at all times 20:35:51 PleasingFungus: Sp can't even wield double swords, can they? 20:35:51 Hurricos: triple swords don't always spawn, but BCs do 20:36:07 Lasty: If you can't find a triple before endgame I feel sorry for you 20:36:08 er GCs 20:36:17 i've certainly had games where I don't 20:36:20 ??objstat 20:36:20 objstat[1/2]: Run with "crawl -objstat" in a build of crawl with EXTERNAL_FLAGS_L=-DDEBUG_STATISTICS in your make command (or full debug with "make debug") to generate item/monsters statistics. See crawl -help for the argument details. 20:36:28 Hurricos: Then you feel sorry for the overwhelming majority of my chars 20:36:28 ??objstat[2] 20:36:28 in 3-rune or 5-rune 20:36:28 objstat[2/2]: Latest spreadsheets for past releases and trunk (0.18-a0-1324-g13589fb): https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7VXhHzhWWb7S282VWhLVWRXbG8&usp=sharing , See the README for details: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D5mFqVi8ghz_nzvVmDUc3unx8VanVBWfgvZ8xCHaiJo/edit?usp=sharing 20:36:34 hup hup 20:36:36 yeah triple swords are not common 20:36:40 i find them in maybe 1/3 of my games 20:37:09 There's also the fact that there are other options that are still better 20:37:31 Actually, I think ... great maces would be on par? 20:37:38 18 bdam at 0.7 vs 22 bdam at 0.9 20:37:43 0.66 20:37:44 It's more how it passes AC really 20:37:52 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:37:58 what about 0.66? 20:38:04 P(triple sword in 3 rune?) 20:38:06 Crawl is designed around giving the player they can't use. Races with restrictions have those restrictions for balance reasons (at least the well-designed ones), and removing them is going to make things less balanced. 20:38:28 Why let spriggans use triple swords and not plate armour? Why not let ogres wear bardings? 20:38:36 I understand that, and this reinstates a balance 20:38:55 I disagree 20:38:57 The thing is that players find tons of items that are absolutely irrelevant to them 20:38:57 I wonder how many derivations objstat goes through, these are weird numbers 20:39:08 throughout the entire game 20:39:19 because crawl is, and kind of fundamentally will be, too long 20:39:21 yep, the overwhelming majority of items 20:39:30 regret-index: you get very weird results at the long tail 20:39:31 and with a gigantic possibility space 20:39:36 This is trying to make the most important among those items relevant once again 20:39:52 For the trunk version, the files are regenerated regularly with 200 or 500 iterations, and for the released versions we use 1000 iterations. 20:40:01 giant clubs are the most important items? 20:40:07 peh. clearly not enough :P 20:40:08 'weapons'? 20:40:14 regret-index: yeah, pretty much 20:40:16 it takes forever to run though 20:40:19 so i got sympathy 20:40:40 yeah, fair enough 20:41:08 It's extremely frustrating to be unable to take advantage of these items is why I'm proposing these changes 20:41:14 Again, no race can GSC half as well as Og can 20:41:35 Og reach 24 m/f twice as fast as Tr do 20:41:35 this is not compelling 20:41:40 is it frustrating to see spellbooks with trog 20:41:46 Hurricos: like lasty said, there are zillions of items you can't take advantage of 20:41:49 regret-index: obviously not, you can burn them! 20:41:50 :P 20:41:52 No, because Trog offers a replacement 20:41:55 free piety 20:41:58 Hurricos: I just recently had an ogre find gauntlets of war. I didn't change the code to let ogres wear gloves at a penalty, though, because making the game easier whenever the game puts something just out of reach isn't a good way to approach design. 20:42:11 at least twice a month someone posts to reddit, a picture of them as an Op finding GDA on D:1 or whatever 20:42:46 i don't think that's something that should be fixed 20:43:22 -!- tsujin_ is now known as tsujin 20:43:37 You feel frustrated when you see a triple sword as a spriggan, but you apparently don't feel frustrated every time the game spawns an item that's not a triple sword when playing a character that can use one. 20:43:55 Right, because greatswords are just a bit worse 20:44:09 If we collectively felt that that frustration was unfair, the obvious fix would be to not spawn triple swords for spriggans, not let spriggans use triple swords. 20:44:12 <|amethyst> when it spawns a falchion then 20:44:36 The chances of finding a decent long blade by L:4 are very high 20:44:43 Hurricos: that is not true 20:44:49 that is subjective 20:44:52 so it cannot either be true nor false 20:44:56 when I say 'decent' 20:45:01 a +4 scimitar of flaming definitely qualifies 20:45:16 The odds of finding a something more than a falchion by D:4 are quite low 20:45:21 L:4 20:45:24 ... not d:4 ... 20:45:28 oh, heh, L:4, sorry 20:45:48 L:4 is basically the 'I'm out of the early game, now I can start doing the fun things!' 20:45:49 Yeah, you have reasonable odds of improving your base LBl by L:4. 20:46:05 Hurricos: some players find the early game fun 20:46:25 I was about to question "middle of lair" as fun, yes 20:46:25 Lasty: I do too, but I'm not unique in that I like seeing numbers rise faster 20:46:31 Lasty: imo that definitely wouldn't be the obvious fix, dungeon generation not depending on the character is a fairly fundamental thing (but i agree this is a bad suggestion 20:46:42 ) 20:46:56 numbers rising faster seems to not be best approached when we don't show damage numbers 20:47:13 alternatively, there's this thing that's admittedly been neglected for years called sprint 20:47:20 Mid-lair is a good 'test' 20:47:27 of what progress you've made up until then 20:47:31 MarvinPA: Dungeon generation not depending on the character is fundamental but so is generating items that players can't helpfully use. Hurricos is proposing breaking the latter, and I'm saying that given the option, I'd rather break the former. 20:47:55 do we have to break either 20:47:58 No! 20:47:58 fair enough, imo that is a pointless thing to discuss because yes 20:48:06 I argue that this just implements a soft curve into what is 'helpful' to a player 20:48:15 Instead of a hard one 20:48:22 I thought it was clear that I was in favor of absolutely no change in response to this proposal 20:48:35 yeah, sorry 20:48:43 it was yeah, just nitpicking 20:49:17 With the limitation of items the game becomes boring because of the lack of choices 20:49:23 Long story short: I'm pretty certain none of us think that this is a good idea 20:49:40 I'm just sharing my perspective and defending my proposed implementation 20:50:02 sadly, there is this thing of development atmosphere. 20:50:24 If and when I build this I will playtest it and offer it up as a branch 20:50:29 qazlal is a fan of atmosphere development 20:50:37 Oh, that's another thing 20:50:41 oh gods 20:50:47 Hurricos: I would respond by challenging your assumption that triple swords (or any other specific high-end option) are necessary for characters or for fun. If you absolutely must have those things to have fun, play the races that have those things! 20:50:52 I saw an amazing proposal for Qaz to build as through combat 20:51:10 this is why I suggested years ago to make tavern non-official 20:51:10 Lasty: The fun gets drained away when the choice is offered but not given 20:51:22 Lasty: I would rather see items that could be generated simply not generate with no replacement in weighting 20:51:50 Lasty: It is crushing to be continuously reminded of a game I could have played 20:52:03 You could probably rcfile a way to ignore the existence of items you don't want to see -- I know crate does that with labyrinths 20:52:25 (still need to recruit infiniplex for those) 20:52:53 There's also the fact that even Halflings have to two-hand base staves ... frustrating to say the least 20:53:24 But I lumped that in with the weapon changes because I believed aptitudes and availability should dictate item use, not hard walls 20:53:34 What I take away from this is that you don't enjoy playing small races and would probably have more fun with larger races. 20:53:41 Oh, no, I love small races 20:53:54 I love them too much, actually, there are just things that irk me about them 20:54:48 The recent change to strength weighting was the nail in the coffin for Sp with weapons 20:55:29 But I digress 20:57:25 forcibly moving away from this, I'd like some lua help for the demonic rune changes I was working on earlier 20:57:33 No force, I think it's died down 20:57:40 I think I'll play a 0.18 centaur, where bows get good weighting 20:59:19 -!- } has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:59:51 -!- MarvinPA has left ##crawl-dev 21:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:25 Odd ... I 21:01:27 Oh 21:01:32 Woah 21:01:35 I might have found one of my first agmes 21:02:32 May 16, 2014 21:02:37 quit it just so I could know 21:05:20 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 21:11:17 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 21:27:36 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 21:34:32 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:41:58 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:42:00 -!- Hurricos has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:46:52 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 21:49:59 -!- regret-index has left ##crawl-dev 21:50:11 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:50 -!- ursan has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:09:53 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:12:44 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 22:14:22 -!- Blazinghbnd_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:16:55 -!- vfoley has joined ##crawl-dev 22:18:07 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 22:18:38 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:23:04 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 22:27:55 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:31:15 -!- friendfixit has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:36:51 -!- Grivan has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:37:14 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:37:39 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 22:41:52 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:44:45 -!- Blade- has joined ##crawl-dev 22:58:52 -!- foophykins has quit [Client Quit] 22:59:42 Problem: variable top item in piles 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10337 by Yermak 22:59:44 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 23:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:14 -!- Kat is now known as Guest81261 23:15:52 -!- hurricos has joined ##crawl-dev 23:16:07 Huh, my pull request got stopped because of a compilation issue 23:16:24 I have no idea why that happened - it compiles fine locally 23:17:01 travis issue 23:17:03 not yours 23:17:08 Oh 23:17:18 https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/jobs/119402610 23:17:34 Travis is ... not compilation? 23:17:38 -!- wheals_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:17:46 it's a continuous integration suite 23:17:54 tries to compile & test everything we upload 23:17:54 PleasingFungus: English 23:17:57 never 23:17:58 Oh 23:18:07 well you just did :P 23:18:16 why +10? thought +9 was insufficient? 23:18:25 +10 vs +9 23:18:32 doesn't matter obv 23:18:32 it's +1 difference, it's down to flavor at that point 23:18:33 just curious 23:18:38 because it looks nicer 23:18:44 9 is a good number. 23:18:48 It's not insufficient honestly 23:18:48 it's 1/3rd of 27. 23:18:52 It could be 23:18:54 .... 23:19:01 well ... but ... 23:19:02 hmm 23:19:10 I mean it could be +0 and still be useful in many situations - it's a non-missing triple 23:19:23 triples have amazing base damage anyways, you just need good +Str 23:19:25 but 23:19:58 they're already quite accurate, it's just incredibly annoying missing things like death cobs and curse skulls and god damned spriggan air mages 23:20:03 -!- wheals__ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:20:11 anyways, I don't know, it was arbitrary and I thought it looked nicer 23:20:17 but I think +8 or +7 might have served it better 23:20:22 I tried to give it something that felt ... snipey? 23:20:56 heh 23:21:35 Oh, yeah, that's what I wanted 23:21:43 I might see if I can modify tornado code so that uh 23:21:49 Qazlal can get a minitornado at high tension 23:22:14 Or invocable 23:22:55 I'm thinking more like radius-2 of dangerous clouds that swirl around the player, not necessarily causing wind damage 23:22:57 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:23:04 -!- wheals_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:23:20 I'm not sure. Maybe I should actually play a Qaz game first 23:23:26 :D 23:24:37 Maybe I'll also implement Mu self-restoration usable while confused to restore clarity 23:24:54 I don't know how people feel about that, but it's strictly good in a strictly bad situation 23:28:30 Hmm 23:30:37 -!- wheals__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:22 -!- owl has joined ##crawl-dev 23:35:00 -!- Lasty_1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:39:28 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 23:44:25 -!- nikheizen has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:44:56 -!- nikheizen has joined ##crawl-dev 23:45:52 -!- eb_ has quit [] 23:49:32 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 23:54:28 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:59:03 !seen |amethyst 23:59:03 I last saw |amethyst at Wed Mar 30 00:44:12 2016 UTC (3h 14m 51s ago) saying 'when it spawns a falchion then' on ##crawl-dev.