00:00:27 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.18-a0-1507-g69458e0 (34)
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01:03:05 <Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1507-g69458e0 (34)
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01:18:37 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1507-g69458e0 (34)
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01:55:01 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1507-g69458e0
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02:51:59 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1507-g69458e0
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03:11:58 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1507-g69458e0 (34)
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07:48:41 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.18-a0-1508-gbe811a7: Rework Qazlal's elemental-summoning wrath 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 36+ 14-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/be811a7581c7
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09:47:38 <|amethyst> !tell PleasingFungus one nice side-effect of that datafication:  now when I'm searching for an (a)bility's implementation in ability.cc, it's the second match for the ability name rather than the third
09:47:38 <Sequell> |amethyst: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know.
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11:00:25 <|amethyst> hm, so when you mark an exclusion with xe (as opposed to Xe) sometimes it doesn't change colour, but then looking at the map and returning fixes it
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11:28:52 <PleasingFungus> |amethyst: reduced redundancy! :)
11:28:52 <Sequell> PleasingFungus: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them.
11:29:03 <PleasingFungus> !tell marvinpa excellent qaz change
11:29:03 <Sequell> PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let marvinpa know.
11:29:22 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus:  I was trying to think of how to move the code into data too
11:29:38 <Grunt> !tell marvinpa I agree with PleasingFungus.
11:29:39 <Sequell> Grunt: OK, I'll let marvinpa know.
11:29:48 <PleasingFungus> !tell grunt I agree with Grunt
11:29:49 <Sequell> PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let grunt know.
11:29:59 <Grunt> !tell PleasingFungus I disagree with agreeing with Grunt.
11:29:59 <Sequell> Grunt: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know.
11:30:03 <PleasingFungus> nooo
11:30:03 <Sequell> PleasingFungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
11:30:21 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus:  since half the time it is either   fail_check(); return function(args) ? SPRET_SUCCESS : SPRET_ABORT;   or  fail_check(); function(args); return SPRET_SUCCESS;
11:30:34 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus:  well, maybe not half, I didn't count
11:30:45 <PleasingFungus> and much of the remaining time *should* be something like that
11:31:10 <|amethyst> It's weird that some abilities target before failing and some fail before targetting
11:31:39 <PleasingFungus> !tell lasty also, for the record, besides death effects being removed, the descriptions for the 'choose death effect' abilities DID mention whether they scaled with invo! subtle, admittedly, but NOT spoilery
11:31:40 <Sequell> PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let lasty know.
11:31:52 <PleasingFungus> |amethyst: sounds like a koan
11:31:57 <PleasingFungus> almost
11:32:16 <Lasty> Death effects were removed????
11:32:17 <Sequell> Lasty: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
11:32:22 <PleasingFungus> !remove Lasty
11:32:23 <Sequell> 03PleasingFungus * 0.18-a0-1569-g302abd2: Remove Lasty 10(in the future, 42 files, 432+ 720-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/commit.png?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=302abd2
11:32:27 <Lasty> Oh no
11:32:32 <Lasty> Now I have to fear the future
11:32:39 <PleasingFungus> %git 78497ff4ec984b4327b5e1d12c43314e6aeb3447
11:32:39 <Cheibriados> 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.18-a0-1633-g78497ff: Remove deathswap effects 10(2 days ago, 10 files, 3+ 363-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/78497ff4ec98
11:32:49 <PleasingFungus> I'd forgotten to rebuild after pushing this batch of commits ^
11:32:59 <PleasingFungus> which made your messages very confusing to me!
11:33:23 <Lasty> aw crap, death effects were my favorite part aside from coming up with inappropriate names for my ancestor
11:33:34 <Lasty> well, specificallly the explosion death effect
11:34:22 <PleasingFungus> I really liked the concept of death effects but I feel like they were way too complex for their own good in practice
11:34:52 <Lasty> Using explosion/transfer was a ton of fun
11:35:44 <PleasingFungus> v0v
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12:05:28 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1508-gbe811a7 (34)
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12:15:27 <PleasingFungus> idea: player l2 'entropy' hex, corrodes, mr resistable
12:15:31 <PleasingFungus> earth
12:15:36 <PleasingFungus> earth/hex I guess
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12:17:59 <PleasingFungus> bonus idea: that enemy attack reduction hex dpeg was talking about, but in a cone, mini-glaciate-ish
12:18:03 <PleasingFungus> short-ranged cone
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12:48:29 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.18-a0-1509-g2bd7971: Deduplicate ability skills 10(32 seconds ago, 4 files, 32+ 73-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2bd7971397d7
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13:08:58 <Grunt> "death to switch/case"
13:08:58 <Grunt> +        switch (basis)
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13:16:02 <|amethyst> hm
13:16:52 <|amethyst> could, instead of having it be based on your religion, mark the skill directly on the ability
13:17:36 <|amethyst> replacing fail_basis
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13:19:21 <|amethyst> I guess that might be weird for randgods that give two such abilities with different skills
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13:51:32 <Lightli> randgods are still a thing?
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13:54:48 <MarvinPA> hmm, how does the thing where monsters immediately drop your beogh gift and swap back to their old weapon work
13:55:23 <MarvinPA> i just implemented a fix and then realised that surely they just shouldn't pick stuff up that you've seen anyway
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13:59:06 <MarvinPA> ahh, they can pick up stuff they dropped themselves, that makes more sense
13:59:22 <PleasingFungus> Grunt: feh!!!
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14:21:35 <MarvinPA> hmm i think i found a good soon-to-be-ruined beogh gifting tech
14:22:01 <MarvinPA> equip the robe of night then gift it to an orc for perma-darkness
14:23:03 <MarvinPA> (until you save and reload, at least)
14:25:40 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.18-a0-1510-gd92d764: Don't allow gifting shields to orcs with two-handed ranged weapons 10(22 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d92d764db8fd
14:25:40 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.18-a0-1511-geab8b1e: Don't allow gifting equipped items 10(16 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/eab8b1e64b04
14:25:40 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.18-a0-1512-ge60c81d: Prevent orcs from swapping from Beogh gifts back to their original equipment 10(3 minutes ago, 4 files, 25+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e60c81d3bce7
14:26:12 <PleasingFungus> hm
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14:26:44 <MarvinPA> possible better implementation of the first one there is to force dropping the ranged weapon and still let you give them a shield
14:26:47 <PleasingFungus> MarvinPA: it feels like it'd be better to force orcs to drop any 2h weapons they have when you -
14:26:47 <MarvinPA> but this seemed easier
14:26:48 <PleasingFungus> yeah
14:26:49 <jefus> sometimes when i hit ctrl-f lately i'm not seeing the "Search for what" prompt; the cursor just goes to the beginning of the line. still works but typing keywords overwrites the previous message
14:27:04 <jefus> haven't been able to reproduce it intentionally yet but thought i'd mention it
14:27:51 <MarvinPA> dropping a 2 handed melee weapon in favour of a shield seems like it'd be a bit weird for them to hit things unarmed until beogh gifts them a weapon again, more reasonable for ranged weapons
14:28:47 <PleasingFungus> the player knows best
14:28:49 <PleasingFungus> imo
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14:47:56 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.18-a0-1513-g7b1393e: Remove Sif Muna's amnesia failure chance 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7b1393e2b2f2
14:48:05 <PleasingFungus> hm, some drac breath abilities currently have longer range than LOS
14:48:09 <PleasingFungus> sort of
14:48:17 <PleasingFungus> they're probably capped to los at some point
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14:51:57 <MarvinPA> possibly something that was missed with squarelos?
14:53:33 <PleasingFungus> yeah
14:53:45 <PleasingFungus> !source _calc_breath_ability_range
14:53:45 <Sequell> 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/ability.cc#l1590
14:53:48 <MarvinPA> looks like it at a glance
14:54:53 <PleasingFungus> hm, lugonu's "exit the abyss" ability causes autotraining to put more focus onto invocations than most gods' top-level abilities
14:55:04 <PleasingFungus> lugonu's 'enter the abyss' causes no invocations training at all
14:55:13 <PleasingFungus> i think someone got mixed up.
14:56:11 <MarvinPA> if so that has probably been the case since the days of victory dancing
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14:56:31 <PleasingFungus> it dates back sometime before 2010
14:56:33 <PleasingFungus> %git 40297010
14:56:34 <Cheibriados> 07by02 * 0.8.0-a0-724-g4029701: Collect calls to exercise() and sort by action instead of skill. 10(6 years ago, 18 files, 634+ 287-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4029701003f4
14:56:40 <MarvinPA> as with most of the weird autotraining stuff!
14:56:44 <PleasingFungus> yeah
14:56:49 <PleasingFungus> I'm going to simplify it in a second, I think
14:56:57 <MarvinPA> rip out exercise.cc and destroy it
14:56:59 <PleasingFungus> was trying to figure out if there was any rhyme or reason that I should be following
14:57:02 <PleasingFungus> haha
14:57:06 <MarvinPA> it's the only way
14:57:09 <PleasingFungus> one thing at a time
14:57:50 <Grunt> !tell PleasingFungus feh
14:57:50 <Sequell> Grunt: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know.
14:57:54 <PleasingFungus> !tell Grunt meh
14:57:54 <Sequell> PleasingFungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it.
14:57:55 <Sequell> PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let grunt know.
14:58:13 <Grunt> !tell PleasingFungus OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know.
14:58:13 <Sequell> Grunt: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know.
14:58:27 <Grunt> !tell Grunt OK, I'll let grunt know.
14:58:27 <Sequell> Grunt: OK, I'll let grunt know.
14:58:30 <PleasingFungus> hm, I don't know about that
14:59:52 <PleasingFungus> whoa
15:00:13 <PleasingFungus> lucy had a 'summon abyssal servants' effect at some point
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15:00:17 <PleasingFungus> presumably this became corruption
15:00:34 <amalloy> !tell Grunt $(!tell Grunt No unread messages)
15:00:34 <Sequell> amalloy: OK, I'll let grunt know.
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15:00:54 <PleasingFungus> hm, exit the abyss was way way more major when it was first added
15:01:03 <PleasingFungus> cost 1d2 permanent HP and MP
15:01:47 <PleasingFungus> haha, and summon abyssal servants called "summon_ice_beast_etc()"
15:01:55 <PleasingFungus> i fuckin love classic crawl
15:02:03 <MarvinPA> is that exit or enter? enter definitely did that too
15:02:42 <MarvinPA> aha, it was swapped over
15:02:53 <MarvinPA> %git c1752a109
15:02:53 <Cheibriados> 07jpeg02 * 0.4-a0-2294-gc1752a1: Change banishment in two ways: * the Banishment spell doesn't work on the player anymore * Lugonu's Exit Abyss has no permanent hp/mp cost, but Enter Abyss has   Instead, Exit Abyss now costs 1 (normal) MP and some more food. 10(8 years ago, 5 files, 38+ 31-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c1752a109ffb
15:03:01 <MarvinPA> "* the Banishment spell doesn't work on the player anymore" :')
15:07:05 <MarvinPA> looks like spit poison range wasn't reduced either
15:08:52 <Grunt> PleasingFungus: to be fair, everything summoned was summon_ice_beast_etc() back then
15:09:09 <PleasingFungus> ya
15:09:11 <PleasingFungus> that's still funny to me
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15:11:13 <Grunt> can we add a monster spell to that effect? <.<
15:11:24 <PleasingFungus> fannar's calling...
15:11:29 <Grunt> (seems like a Mnoleg thing - summon whatever the heck answers)
15:12:33 <PleasingFungus> there's already a pan monster that summons a grab-bag of stuff, of course
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15:13:04 <MarvinPA> there are two different types of "summon whatever", even!
15:13:35 <MarvinPA> the one that demonspawn have that i don't know how it works, and the one that some abyss monster has that i don't know how it works
15:13:55 <Grunt> (can you guess who designed both of those)
15:14:22 <MarvinPA> to be fair i think i do actually know vaguely what they both do, but i definitely have no idea which has which
15:14:34 <PleasingFungus> ...same....
15:14:35 <PleasingFungus> :(
15:14:50 <Grunt> I actually know because I wrote the original code for one? of them
15:14:52 <PleasingFungus> haha
15:14:55 <Grunt> (not my design though)
15:15:14 <Grunt> and I think I subsequently adjusted the other to match the same code pattern
15:15:48 <Grunt> @??worldbinder
15:15:48 <Gretell> worldbinder (10x) | Spd: 14 | HD: 8 | HP: 30-47 | AC/EV: 12/4 | Dam: 8, 8 | 11non-living, 10doors, see invisible, fly, unbreathing | Res: 06magic(60), 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 514 | Sp: forceful invitation [06!sil] | Sz: small | Int: animal.
15:15:50 <Grunt> @??corrupter
15:15:50 <Gretell> gelid corrupter (096) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 75-110 | AC/EV: 22/10 | Dam: 20 | natural, 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, priest, evil, unholy | Res: 06magic(60), 02cold++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++, 11silver | XP: 1330 | Sp: plane rend [11!AM], corrupt body [11!AM] | Sz: Medium | Int: human.
15:16:49 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.18-a0-1514-g6ed9364: Simplify ability autotraining 10(45 seconds ago, 3 files, 18+ 93-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6ed93643b620
15:16:53 <Grunt> the current differences are: the former has weaker summons but can pick from anywhere at will; the latter has stronger summons with a fixed location per summoner
15:16:53 <Grunt> s/location/source/
15:17:04 <PleasingFungus> fixed location per summoner seems like the sort of cool thing that players are never going to notice
15:17:10 <PleasingFungus> which is a very DO design
15:17:13 <PleasingFungus> DO/HM
15:17:17 <MarvinPA> i was just about to guess they were the other way around
15:17:24 <MarvinPA> :(
15:17:27 <PleasingFungus> rip
15:17:43 <PleasingFungus> MarvinPA: ^ look, exercise.cc is shrinking!
15:17:51 <MarvinPA> yay
15:18:01 <PleasingFungus> all that beautiful red
15:18:13 <Grunt> learn add PleasingFungus
15:18:38 <PleasingFungus> fun fact: this is specifically calibrated to make channel energy have the same training weight
15:18:43 <PleasingFungus> since it is the most spammed ability in the game
15:18:58 <MarvinPA> very important
15:19:01 <PleasingFungus> :)
15:19:31 <MarvinPA> consistent nonsense is the best kind
15:19:40 <Grunt> learn add
15:19:49 <PleasingFungus> other nonsensical things that a brave soul should improve on: jiyva stat shuffling
15:20:09 <PleasingFungus> which is carefully tailored to make sure that your strength is perfect for that banded mail you're using, or w/e was the fashion ten years ago
15:20:14 <Grunt> I looked at shuffling once, decided I had no idea how it was currently working or supposed to work, and gave up on it
15:20:19 <PleasingFungus> o/
15:20:32 <Grunt> impossible to fix <.<
15:20:37 <MarvinPA> i'm fairly sure it's been adjusted since evp changed
15:20:44 <PleasingFungus> i'm exaggerating slightly.
15:20:46 <MarvinPA> (but i definitely don't know how it works)
15:20:59 <PleasingFungus> I had to look at it when I was working on the big shield revamp that I gave up on
15:21:36 <Grunt> ?/impossible.*once.*gave up
15:21:37 <Sequell> Matching entries (1): devteam[5]: <MarvinPA> sadly that bug is literally impossible to fix <MarvinPA> by which i mean i tried like once and then gave up
15:22:40 <amalloy> what would fixing it look like? i have some idea how it works
15:22:43 <MarvinPA> it's very convenient how often i find that entry is applicable! and/or very sad :(
15:23:26 <MarvinPA> although recently i found a thing that was the exact opposite, which was a nice surprise! the zig shape bug was something i'd just never tried to fix because i assumed it was literally impossible and lua is scary
15:23:58 <MarvinPA> but then it was actually a really simple check that had gone missing
15:24:01 <amalloy> right now the thing i dislike most about J stat shuffling is that it makes your +stat gear totally fungible: +9 int is the same as +9 str
15:24:35 <Grunt> learn add lua <MarvinPA> lua is scary
15:24:44 <amalloy> also if you're wearing a ring of +6 Int and J thinks your int should be 4, J will set you to base -2
15:25:11 <MarvinPA> amalloy: that first thing seems sort of fitting to me, doesn't seem like necessarily a problem
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15:28:12 <MarvinPA> not setting your base to <1 seems pretty reasonable though, if that's a thing
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15:39:57 <PleasingFungus> to be fair, making things fungible seems like more of a fedhas trait
15:39:59 <PleasingFungus> <_<
15:40:00 <PleasingFungus> >_>
15:40:58 <Grunt> oh I should implement farmers for 1 April before I forget
15:41:12 <PleasingFungus> I should do something for apr. fst
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15:55:45 <elliptic> <PleasingFungus> which is carefully tailored to make sure that your strength is perfect for that banded mail you're using, or w/e was the fashion ten years ago
15:56:00 <elliptic> it's been updated more recently than that
15:56:28 <PleasingFungus> [12:20] MPA i'm fairly sure it's been adjusted since evp changed
15:56:29 <PleasingFungus> [12:20]	PleasingFungus	i'm exaggerating slightly.
15:56:53 <elliptic> well that's what happens when you exaggerate, multiple people contradict you
15:57:23 <PleasingFungus> :P
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15:58:27 <elliptic> amalloy: the problem with making it ignore +stat gear is that -stat gear becomes more annoying
15:58:50 <elliptic> making it not set your base to <1 does sound reasonable though if it still does that
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15:59:59 <elliptic> honestly I'm not sure that jiyva modifying your stats is a good idea in the first place
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16:01:20 <Cheibriados> New branch created: farmer (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/farmer
16:01:20 <Cheibriados> 03Grunt02 07[farmer] * 0.18-a0-1515-gb01c991: Farmer background. 10(2 minutes ago, 7 files, 39+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b01c991ecdd1
16:01:35 <Grunt> don't let me forget to merge that leading into 1 April <.<
16:01:45 <elliptic> Grunt: why does farmer not start at turn 200k
16:01:48 <PleasingFungus> haha
16:01:50 <PleasingFungus> also
16:01:51 <Grunt> elliptic: very good question
16:01:52 <PleasingFungus> %git cyc
16:01:52 <Cheibriados> 07|amethyst02 * 0.17-a0-1773-ged48617: Increase weight of scroll of blinking. 10(6 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ed486176fdd0
16:02:03 <PleasingFungus> ^ wasn't this specifically intended for apr fools?
16:02:17 <Grunt> hey, we can have multiple tidbits :)
16:02:27 <PleasingFungus> no i mean
16:02:36 <PleasingFungus> it seemed like it'd make sense to have one April Fool's 2016 Branch
16:02:40 <PleasingFungus> that everyone would contribute to?
16:02:43 <PleasingFungus> v0v
16:02:54 <Grunt> ah
16:03:04 <PleasingFungus> I wonder how bitrotted cyc is
16:09:42 <Cheibriados> 03Grunt02 07[farmer] * 0.18-a0-1516-gb4062a8: Start Farmers at turn 200k (elliptic). 10(20 seconds ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b4062a83ae20
16:09:58 <PleasingFungus> hahaha
16:09:58 <elliptic> Grunt: ty
16:09:59 <PleasingFungus> the absolute madman
16:10:13 <Grunt> surprisingly, no ill effects!
16:10:16 <Grunt> (that I know of)
16:10:44 <elliptic> it might confuse some start-of-game lua if it checks for turn == 0
16:10:50 <elliptic> (player lua)
16:10:54 <Grunt> who cares about lua <.<
16:10:57 <elliptic> yes
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16:11:15 <Grunt> (qw probably cares but I know qw is more intelligent than that)
16:11:19 <Grunt> (so is gw)
16:11:50 <elliptic> qw is probably nonfunctional since I haven't touched it in months
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16:12:01 <Grunt> gw probably still mostly works
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16:13:52 <PleasingFungus> is it gw or qw that's lurking in test lua?
16:13:57 <PleasingFungus> I touched it for rime drakes
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16:17:11 <Grunt> qw
16:17:28 <Grunt> gw is too crazy to be in source tree <.<
16:17:38 <elliptic> qw, though I don't know if that version has all the changes that are on https://github.com/elliptic/qw
16:18:58 <elliptic> (I'll work on qw a bit sometime before 0.18 release and update it then)
16:19:11 <elliptic> (0.18 release isn't that soon, right?)
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16:22:02 <Grunt> I for one have no idea when 0.18 release is <.<
16:22:51 <PleasingFungus> I don't think anyone decided
16:23:11 <PleasingFungus> we can talk about it now, if you like
16:23:46 <PleasingFungus> probably we should talk about it at some point before summer
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16:51:41 <amalloy> how do i see how much +Int gear the player has? i know i can check their base stats and subtract from their current stats, but that will have problems with, eg, !brill or whatever
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16:52:55 <amalloy> i guess my problem complicated by +Int mutations, too. maybe i'll just do the simplest thing and leave Jiyva's target stats where they are but post hoc forbid lowering a base stat to 0
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17:06:51 <Cheibriados> New branch created: sponcor (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/sponcor
17:06:51 <Cheibriados> 03PleasingFungus02 07[sponcor] * 0.18-a0-1515-g518dbf6: New spell: Spontaneous Corrosion (L2 Earth/Tmut) 10(2 minutes ago, 13 files, 78+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/518dbf60a840
17:07:11 <PleasingFungus> possibly this should just use the existing entropy weaver spell instead
17:07:25 <PleasingFungus> actually, i'm pretty sure it should
17:08:54 <PleasingFungus> hm, but that isn't resistabl
17:08:56 <PleasingFungus> e
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17:31:37 <travis-ci> The build passed. (farmer - b4062a8 #4997 : Steve Melenchuk): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/113950592
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17:31:43 <Grunt> thanks travis
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18:04:41 <Lantell> Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.18-a0-1514-g6ed9364 (34)
18:05:30 <amalloy> !tell pleasingfungus an earth-focused corrosion spell should be called Erosion imo
18:05:31 <Sequell> amalloy: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know.
18:06:03 <Grunt> !
18:06:54 <Grunt> !tell pleasingfungus I agree with amalloy.
18:06:54 <Sequell> Grunt: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know.
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18:07:42 <travis-ci> The build passed. (sponcor - 518dbf6 #4998 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/113958620
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18:07:47 <amalloy> !learn add amalloy Grunt once agreed with him
18:07:47 <Sequell> amalloy[6/6]: Grunt once agreed with him
18:08:02 <Grunt> !learn edit amalloy[6] s/^/claims /
18:08:08 <Sequell> amalloy[6/6]: claims Grunt once agreed with him
18:08:08 <Grunt> <.<
18:08:41 <amalloy> !learn edit amalloy[6] s/$/, in the pre-Schism days
18:08:41 <Sequell> amalloy[6/6]: claims Grunt once agreed with him, in the pre-Schism days
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18:10:18 <CanOfWorms> that went south quickly
18:10:58 <amalloy> the collective noun for software developers is a disagreement
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19:31:02 <Rast-> !messages
19:31:02 <Sequell> No messages for Rast-.
19:40:56 <Rast-> Grunt,
19:41:07 <Rast-> farmer class should also start with a -3 dagger in inventory
19:41:34 <Grunt> ha
19:47:06 <Rast-> ??fruit
19:47:06 <Sequell> food[1/3]: Goes in mouth/beak. Without carnivore or herbivore: Meat is 5000 nutrition. Bread is 4400 nutrition. Royal jelly is 2000 nutrition. A chunk is 1000 nutrition. Fruit is 850. Beef jerky/pizza is 1500.
19:47:09 <Rast-> ??bread ration
19:47:09 <Sequell> food[1/3]: Goes in mouth/beak. Without carnivore or herbivore: Meat is 5000 nutrition. Bread is 4400 nutrition. Royal jelly is 2000 nutrition. A chunk is 1000 nutrition. Fruit is 850. Beef jerky/pizza is 1500.
19:47:15 <Rast-> ah
19:47:27 <Rast-> ??fruit[2
19:47:27 <Sequell> food[2/3]: Chunks, rations and royal jellies take 3 turns to eat. Everything else takes one turn
19:48:24 <Grunt> !calc 4400 / 850
19:48:25 <Sequell> 5
19:48:39 <Grunt> (it's not exactly 5; it's 5.17 or so)
19:50:41 <Grunt> !calc 4400000 / 850000
19:50:42 <Sequell> 5
19:50:50 <Grunt> !calc 4400000 / 8500
19:50:51 <Sequell> 517
19:51:27 <|amethyst> !calc 4400.0 / 850
19:51:28 <Sequell> 5.18
19:52:58 <Grunt> ah
19:53:11 <Rast-> has it always been 850?
19:53:39 <Grunt> it has been 850 ever since fruit has been one item
19:54:28 <Rast-> ah, badwiki claims 1500
19:56:08 <Grunt> hm I'm actually wrong
19:56:15 <|amethyst> Proposal: replace meat and bread with royal jelly, increase royal jelly to 4700, and merge beef jerky and pizza
19:56:54 <|amethyst> so the only carnivore food is chunk, and the only herbivore food fruit
19:57:05 <|amethyst> I'd suggest removing fruit too were it not for Fedhas
19:57:07 <Grunt> %git 946bf481
19:57:07 <Cheibriados> 07wheals02 * 0.15-a0-1030-g946bf48: Remove some foods. 10(1 year, 9 months ago, 12 files, 64+ 234-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/946bf4815769
19:57:11 <Grunt> %git 184dc122
19:57:11 <Cheibriados> 07wheals02 * 0.15-a0-1143-g184dc12: Reduce fruit amounts, increase nutrition. 10(1 year, 9 months ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/184dc12256ae
19:57:39 <wheals> Proposal:  Removed all food categories except pizza, which has been expanded to cover 18 new flavors for players to explore, and adds an achievement for ordering all the different pizza types from the new store system
19:57:39 <Rast-> { FOOD_FRUIT,        "fruit",         850,  -100,    50,  1 },
19:57:45 <Rast-> I think it's still 850?
19:57:47 <geekosaur> I feel like they got tweaked even more recently?
19:57:53 <Grunt> originally it was 250
19:57:56 <Grunt> when they were all unified
19:58:01 <Grunt> shortly afterwards it was bumped to 850
19:58:05 <Rast-> which is a really random value
19:58:05 <Grunt> and is still 850
19:59:00 <Rast-> where do I go to figure out what the 100 and -50 in that line mean?
19:59:14 <Rast-> oh nm
20:00:03 <|amethyst> !calc (4400.0 + 500) / (850 + 50)
20:00:04 <Sequell> 5.44
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20:03:19 <Rast-> http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?title=Comestibles_and_satiation&diff=41271&oldid=41245
20:03:22 <Rast-> Did I do it right?
20:05:21 <Rast-> ??Carnivorous
20:05:21 <Sequell> carnivore[1/1]: You can't eat bread or fruit, but can eat flesh at any time. Ghouls, felids, and kobolds have this. Trolls do not; they have built-in {gourmand} instead.
20:05:35 <|amethyst> Rast-:  looks right
20:05:37 <Rast-> ??Herbivorous
20:05:38 <Sequell> Herbivorous ~ herbivore[1/1]: You can't eat meat. Spriggans have this.
20:05:53 <Rast-> are the various levels of carnivore and herbivore mutation still around?
20:06:03 <Rast-> as a possible random mut
20:06:22 <|amethyst> no
20:06:34 <|amethyst> it's technically around but I don't think you can actually get it?
20:06:38 <Rast-> just in the code. OK
20:07:00 <|amethyst> all the species have level 3
20:07:09 <|amethyst> (or 0)
20:07:38 <Rast-> given that, how about reform the food nutrition values to be less weirdly random
20:07:47 <Rast-> go for multiplres of 1000 or at least 500
20:08:07 <|amethyst> not really worth it for numbers we don't show to the user
20:08:12 <|amethyst> though
20:08:20 <Rast-> bread and fruit are the offenders here
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20:09:25 <|amethyst> with the herb 3 and carn 3 modifiers, other things are offenders too
20:10:03 <Rast-> true, but the base values of those two are the worst
20:10:25 <|amethyst> not to say they shouldn't be changed
20:10:42 <|amethyst> but IMO that should be part of merging
20:10:56 <wheals> since you can't have anything but 3 the mutations/bonuses could be made binary
20:11:01 <|amethyst> which would have much more tangible benefits
20:11:43 <|amethyst> wheals:  that too, would need to decide what to do with level 1 or 2 in save compat code
20:11:56 <|amethyst> wheals:  maybe divide the level by two
20:11:56 <Rast-> treat as level 0
20:12:00 <|amethyst> or that
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20:12:42 <Rast-> may I complain about the crawl code?
20:13:20 <|amethyst> absolutely not! we treat it with reverence and deference @crawlcode
20:14:04 <Rast-> ohok then
20:14:10 <|amethyst> :P
20:14:47 <Rast-> well, if we're OK with breaking savefile compatibility
20:14:48 <Rast-> int         carn_mod;
20:14:48 <Rast-> int         herb_mod;
20:14:52 <Rast-> should just go
20:14:59 <|amethyst> well
20:15:06 <|amethyst> hm
20:15:29 <|amethyst> would need some adjustments to not screw up spriggan and troll hunger too much
20:15:37 <|amethyst> s/would/might/
20:15:39 <Rast-> no, the mods are still fine
20:15:40 <|amethyst> and ghoul
20:15:55 <|amethyst> oh, you mean make it a percentage
20:15:59 <Rast-> what im saying is they should be bools
20:16:09 <|amethyst> yeah
20:16:28 <|amethyst> or combine all those properties into a bitfield
20:16:45 <|amethyst> NUTR_CARNIVORE | NUTR_SLOWEAT
20:16:46 <Rast-> and then the mod for herb or carnivore should be *1.5
20:17:08 <|amethyst> would have to look at the numbers for that
20:17:25 <|amethyst> spriggans and trolls in particular are kind of sensitive to food changes
20:17:32 <|amethyst> everyone else is just swimming in it
20:17:41 <Rast-> we have these other two functions food_is_meaty and food_is_veggie which are just silly imo
20:17:49 <|amethyst> I guess trolls don't have carn_mod though
20:17:55 <|amethyst> ghouls might be an issue
20:17:56 <Rast-> like, the food struct itself doesnt tell you if its meaty or veggie food
20:18:07 <|amethyst> Rast-:  well, it does, and we'd have those functions anyway
20:18:10 <Rast-> you have to look an see if theres a herb or carn bonus or penalty
20:18:16 <|amethyst> Rast-:  because the food struct is local to itemprop.cc
20:19:13 <|amethyst> but yeah
20:19:42 <|amethyst> it would definitely be simpler to have uniform carnivore/herbivore modifiers
20:20:06 <|amethyst> well, bonuses, there'd be no penalties anymore
20:20:27 <|amethyst> since the mutations would be binary
20:22:08 <Rast-> well, keeping in mind that the bonus for veggie/carn gets tripled in practice, currently the bonus for each type of food is:
20:22:09 <Rast-> FOOD_MEAT_RATION,  30%
20:22:09 <Rast-> FOOD_CHUNK,        30%
20:22:09 <Rast-> FOOD_BEEF_JERKY,   40%
20:22:09 <Rast-> FOOD_BREAD_RATION, 34.1%
20:22:09 <Rast-> FOOD_FRUIT,        17.6%
20:22:25 <Rast-> all over the place imo
20:22:47 <|amethyst> Rast-:  my earlier suggestion about merging foods would mean just chunk and fruit matter
20:23:03 <|amethyst> Rast-:  and honestly we could get rid of the herbivore bonus for fruit
20:23:18 <Rast-> what is that bonus supposed to even represent?
20:23:27 <Rast-> does it model a real life property of herb/carn animals?
20:23:40 <Rast-> or is it as a balance thing?
20:23:55 <|amethyst> I'd expect specialised digestion to be more efficient
20:24:04 <Rast-> 17.6% more efficient
20:24:06 <|amethyst> cows can definitely extract more nutrients from grass than humans can
20:24:11 <Rast-> or possibly 40% more efficient
20:24:34 <Rast-> fruit is basically sugar and water right
20:24:49 <|amethyst> my suggestion would be to make "herbivore" mean "you can't eat chunks", "carnivore" mean "you can't eat permafood"
20:25:03 <|amethyst> then no need for a modifier at all
20:25:22 <Rotatell> MorganLeah (L16 DsNe) ASSERT(m.mid > 0) in 'tags.cc' at line 4748 failed. (D:14)
20:25:29 <Rast-> thats a bit nasty for carnivore
20:25:49 <|amethyst> maybe "half nutrition from permafood" then
20:26:10 <|amethyst> or, remove carnivore
20:27:12 <|amethyst> replace it in felids and kobolds with gourmand
20:28:31 <|amethyst> maybe restrict ghouls to chunks only, or maybe not, it's not terribly important to flavour whether ghouls can eat pemmican vs hardtack
20:30:08 <Rast-> wait, i just started a game and it seems trolls can eat bread?
20:30:12 <Rast-> at least in zigsprint
20:31:27 <|amethyst> trolls aren't carnivores
20:31:32 <|amethyst> they just have gourmand
20:31:38 <CanOfWorms> fucked up
20:31:51 <|amethyst> they used to have carn 1 or so
20:31:55 <Rast-> ah ok
20:31:57 <|amethyst> maybe 2, I don't recall
20:32:08 <|amethyst> before carn/herb were squashed to 0/3
20:32:35 <Rast-> I see that now. OK
20:33:13 <Rast-> so there are three species left that can't eat bread/fruit, except those species are never at risk for starving anyway
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20:37:47 <wheals> OK it's kind of hasty but i hacked up a food reform commit: http://sprunge.us/GGDG?diff
20:38:06 <Rast-> heh
20:38:24 <CanOfWorms> no hawaiian
20:38:27 <CanOfWorms> extremely fucked up
20:39:37 <wheals> isn't that ham and pineapple?
20:40:34 <CanOfWorms> yeah
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20:41:29 <wheals> it's first on the list already!
20:41:38 <CanOfWorms> ah
20:41:58 <CanOfWorms> complaint... retracted
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20:43:15 <Rast-> royal jelly should just go already
20:43:22 <Rast-> its easily the weakest food type
20:43:40 <geekosaur> think it remains only for hysterical raisons
20:43:42 <geekosaur> *raisins
20:43:49 <Rast-> yes obviously
20:44:09 <Rast-> from nethack originally right?
20:44:19 <Rast-> and it had some sort of stat retoring ability
20:44:21 <Rast-> ??royal jelly
20:44:21 <Sequell> royal jelly[1/2]: 2000 nutrition with no other effects. For the boss of the Slime Pits, see {the royal jelly}.
20:44:25 <Rast-> ??royal jelly[2
20:44:25 <Sequell> the royal jelly[1/7]: Boss of the Slime Pits. Damage causes the creation of high-level Js such as acid blobs and azure jellies, which will never be on the other side of a wall and give no experience. When killed, the level allows teleport control, and the loot chamber walls become transparent and diggable.
20:44:51 <CanOfWorms> rip ctele
20:45:55 <geekosaur> also obviously the commit that removes royal jellies should be titled "remove Hive" :p
20:46:04 <Rast-> so yeah just remove royal jellies and replace with pizza
20:46:33 <Rast-> its a very slight nutrition decrease, but 2000/3 turns is worse than 1500/1 turn anyway
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21:30:43 <PleasingFungus> I would like to register, for the record, a sense of faint sorrow wrt the removal of royal jelly, The Dumb Pun Food.
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22:37:24 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus:  that's why I suggested to rename meat and bread rations to royal jelly
22:37:58 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus:  then the spriggan baker can become a spriggan beekeeper
22:38:07 <PleasingFungus> !
22:38:13 <|amethyst> spriggan apiologist
22:38:28 <PleasingFungus> at long last, the baked spriggan may know freedom..
22:39:24 <geekosaur> replaced with a bee special room >.>
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22:39:38 <wheals> beekept spriggan
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22:54:51 <CanOfWorms> rip ogre spriggan baker
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23:26:15 <ontoclasm> spriggan presser
23:26:21 <ontoclasm> one who presses spriggans
23:26:39 <|amethyst> extra virgin octopode oil
23:27:06 <|amethyst> catsap
23:27:57 <Grunt> ??spriggan berserker[$
23:27:57 <Sequell> spriggan berserker[2/2]: one who berserks spriggans
23:27:59 <Grunt> ??spriggan_defender[3
23:27:59 <Sequell> spriggan defender[3/3]: one who defends spriggans
23:28:10 <|amethyst> ??spriggan rider
23:28:10 <Sequell> spriggan rider[1/3]: Uses blowguns, and more dangerous than an orc knight in melee. On "death," will turn into either a spriggan or a giant firefly.
23:28:13 <|amethyst> ??spriggan rider[$
23:28:13 <Sequell> spriggan rider[3/3]: As its mount dies, the spriggan plunges down into deep water and drowns!
23:28:15 <Grunt> the rider one is gone :(
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23:45:50 <ProzacElf> bring back giant fireflies
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