00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:38 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:03:17 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 00:09:35 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 44.0/20160123151951]] 00:23:29 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has joined ##crawl-dev 00:26:57 -!- molotove1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:27:33 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:28:10 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.18-a0-1293-g5a2c81a (34) 00:29:25 acid form 00:29:57 you turn into a pool of acid and get corroded every turn. Everything that touches you gets hurt and corroded 00:30:24 that would be a form that encourages entering a form for part of a battle, and trading off corrosion of yourself with corrosion of enemies 00:30:38 maybe you could just corrode everything in los. But then it's a bit alistars 00:30:47 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:34:01 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 00:34:15 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:34:53 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:40:57 any day in which a buff goes away is a good day 00:47:05 -!- molotove1 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:47:22 -!- asdu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:48:05 random idea: allow wanderers to start with random innate mutations 00:48:26 eg wild/subdued magic/robust/frail/scales 00:49:04 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:49:34 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:49:44 -!- sk3 is now known as ktgrey 00:51:08 wanderer probably has enough startscumming already 00:51:42 you could maybe do it if you gave them a good mut instead of something else they would otherwise get, but you certainly can't give them a badmut 00:52:04 and you can't give them a goodmut on top of the existing wn setup 00:57:01 -!- ursan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:59:23 a background which starts with no skills, but 3 good muts 00:59:44 the Mutant (Mu) 00:59:46 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:57 -!- fiyawerx has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:06:07 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:09:58 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:11:51 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1293-g5a2c81a (34) 01:14:52 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:15:51 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 01:16:57 -!- molotove1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:17:10 -!- FireSight has quit [] 01:19:26 i guess it would be different from other backgrounds which don't permanently affect your player 01:19:31 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1293-g5a2c81a (34) 01:19:37 you could make the mutations non-permanent but then they're low value I guess 01:22:36 -!- Reawakening_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:23:02 -!- Reawakening_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:25:22 -!- kaiza has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:28:04 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:29:42 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:21 -!- molotove1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:34:03 -!- ursan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:34:26 -!- Shard1697 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:35:11 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:36:05 -!- Xenobreeder has joined ##crawl-dev 01:37:35 @??orc 01:37:36 orc (04o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 6-8 | AC/EV: 1/9 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | XP: 3 | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 01:37:40 @??orc zombie 01:37:40 orc zombie (07Z) | Spd: 8 | HD: 1 | HP: 7-10 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 4 | 07undead, evil, unbreathing | Res: 06magic(1), 02cold++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1 | Sz: Medium | Int: brainless. 01:37:42 @??spectral orc 01:37:42 spectral orc (03Z) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 5-7 | AC/EV: 2/5 | Dam: 4 | 07undead, evil, see invisible, fly, unbreathing | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1 | Sz: Medium | Int: brainless. 01:37:57 @??ogre 01:37:57 ogre (07O) | Spd: 10 | HD: 5 | HP: 22-33 | AC/EV: 1/6 | Dam: 17 | 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 118 | Sz: Large | Int: human. 01:38:00 @??ogre zombie 01:38:00 ogre zombie (07Z) | Spd: 8 | HD: 5 | HP: 34-50 | AC/EV: 0/1 | Dam: 13 | 07undead, evil, unbreathing | Res: 06magic(6), 02cold++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 25 | Sz: Large | Int: brainless. 01:38:04 @??spectral ogre 01:38:04 spectral ogre (03Z) | Spd: 10 | HD: 5 | HP: 24-34 | AC/EV: 3/1 | Dam: 1313(drain) | 07undead, evil, see invisible, fly, unbreathing | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 62 | Sz: Large | Int: brainless. 01:38:21 MORE ac?! 01:38:26 @??orb guardian 01:38:27 Orb Guardian (06X) | Spd: 14 | HD: 15 | HP: 71-96 | AC/EV: 13/13 | Dam: 45 | 10doors, fighter, see invisible | Res: 06magic(120), 12drown | XP: 2770 | Sz: Giant | Int: human. 01:38:30 @??spectral orb guardian 01:38:30 unknown monster: "spectral orb guardian" 01:38:46 @??red draconian 01:38:46 red draconian (04d) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 80-115 | AC/EV: 9/10 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40), 05fire | XP: 1232 | Sp: searing breath (3d18) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath] | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 01:38:49 @??spectral red draconian 01:38:49 spectral red draconian (03Z) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 69-100 | AC/EV: 11/5 | Dam: 1613(drain) | 07undead, evil, see invisible, fly, unbreathing | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 775 | Sz: Medium | Int: brainless. 01:39:11 why does spectral get +AC? 01:39:59 -!- Reawakening__ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:40:12 WITCHES 01:40:37 -!- Hellmonk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:40:47 -!- Reawakening_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:41:33 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has joined ##crawl-dev 01:45:14 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:49:55 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:50:47 -!- molotove1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:54:15 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:54:50 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1293-g5a2c81a 01:55:18 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:59:49 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:02:00 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:06:14 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 02:12:09 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:17:14 -!- timvisher has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:18:52 -!- Harudoku has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:21:05 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:21:41 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:21:58 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:23:37 -!- mibe has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:26:55 -!- anon28 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:28:53 -!- slurkki has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:29:16 -!- ursan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:31:16 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 02:31:37 -!- GauHelldragon2 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:33:12 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:38:26 -!- WalrusKing__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:47:42 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:49:45 -!- LordSloth has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:51:18 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 02:52:38 -!- neizenel has joined ##crawl-dev 02:53:21 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1293-g5a2c81a 02:55:16 -!- nikheizen has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:42 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 03:02:05 -!- Krenium has quit [] 03:04:04 -!- Xeiph has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:04:35 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:09:38 -!- molotove1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:13:03 -!- grimmulfr has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:14:18 -!- molotove has quit [Client Quit] 03:14:53 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:20:30 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:22:28 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1293-g5a2c81a (34) 03:28:14 -!- neizenel is now known as nikheizen 03:28:47 -!- tymate has joined ##crawl-dev 03:31:02 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:33:03 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:36:35 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 03:42:16 -!- koboldina has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:47:35 -!- molotove has quit [Client Quit] 03:59:31 -!- edsrzf has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:59:46 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:49 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:09:27 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:14:11 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:22:51 -!- Idolo has quit [] 04:29:09 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:29:36 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:30:26 -!- Rast has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:38:17 -!- ursan has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:41:31 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:43:40 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 04:43:41 %git 04:43:41 07MarvinPA02 * 0.18-a0-1293-g5a2c81a: Remove Phase Shift 10(3 days ago, 30 files, 41+ 204-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5a2c81ae54ef 04:47:47 -!- tymate has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:48:50 -!- Xeiph has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:49:36 -!- tymate has joined ##crawl-dev 04:50:29 -!- mibe has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:53:26 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:57:21 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:15 dang, everyone is slacking 05:02:18 chequers: as long as the evil spells disappear, I'm happy 05:07:06 %git HEAD^ 05:07:06 07amalloy02 * 0.18-a0-1292-ge8ad84c: Don't tell ghouls/gargs/etc that [rPois makes them feel resistant to poison 10(35 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e8ad84c261f4 05:07:24 timestamps 05:11:27 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:13:44 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 05:19:49 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:23:29 -!- Lathuz has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:25:23 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:36:08 -!- maha has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 44.0.1/20160205155049]] 05:37:11 -!- driftw00d has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:42:27 -!- ursan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:43:45 -!- read has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:44:01 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:50:11 -!- Crawl_Bacchus has quit [Quit: Look what I got, Bart, a Tickle-Me Krusty doll!] 06:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:06:54 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07:25 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:20:25 -!- tymate has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:20:35 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:25:58 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:27:13 -!- zxc has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:28:36 still, 35hrs 06:30:08 -!- AltReality has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:43:14 -!- fazisi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:44:31 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:46:43 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:51:55 -!- ursan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:54:07 -!- sid14726 has quit [Ping timeout: 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Krusty doll!] 07:44:24 -!- fazisi_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:54:20 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:58:39 -!- Grivan has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:02:09 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:02:41 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 08:04:08 -!- nosratheno has quit [Quit: Zzzz] 08:18:48 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:18:59 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:19:27 -!- mopl has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:19:51 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:24:12 -!- namelastname112 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:28:55 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:29:30 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 08:36:11 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:42:00 -!- mopl has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:43:21 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 08:49:23 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:54:31 -!- tymate has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:04:17 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:07:13 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:18:01 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:19:21 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:25:56 -!- sid14726 has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:32:03 -!- mopl has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:34:40 -!- Jessika has quit [K-Lined] 09:34:40 -!- Lightli has quit [K-Lined] 09:34:40 -!- BigBluFrog has quit [K-Lined] 09:34:40 -!- namelastname112 has quit [K-Lined] 09:34:40 -!- Ratboiler has quit [K-Lined] 09:34:40 -!- Floodkiller has quit [K-Lined] 09:34:40 -!- glosham has quit [K-Lined] 09:34:40 -!- opkc has quit [K-Lined] 09:35:55 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:37:49 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:40:05 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 09:42:15 -!- falu has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4] 09:45:50 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:47:36 -!- Shard1697 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:29 -!- molotove has quit [Client Quit] 09:55:08 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 09:59:35 -!- ldf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:03:04 !learn add fanfiction http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=30636 10:03:05 fanfiction[11/11]: http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=30636 10:08:48 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:41 just noticed that c-r-d hasn't had any charm discussion in a while 10:11:13 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:12:03 people worn out, those slackers 10:13:21 -!- tymate has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:18:59 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:23:00 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:24:09 so that's all the charms you really wanted gone but ozo's gone now 10:25:24 -!- Ratboiler has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:25:35 -!- BigBluFrog has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:29:25 -!- West1C has quit [] 10:32:25 three times is the charm! 10:33:03 Condensation Shield, Phase Shift gone, Ozocubo's Armour nerfed... sounds good to me. 10:33:40 <|amethyst> Berserker Rage gone 10:33:55 <|amethyst> we should re-add it just so we can remove it again! 10:35:01 -!- tymate has joined ##crawl-dev 10:35:25 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 10:36:16 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has joined ##crawl-dev 10:36:52 -!- tealeaves has quit [Client Quit] 10:37:56 |amethyst: :) 10:38:31 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:40:45 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:41:54 completely unrelated question: is "notation" a singular noun, or can you see "the following two notations..." (math text)? 10:44:28 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 10:47:35 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:52:47 03chequers02 07* 0.18-a0-1293-gf0d2d53: Replace curse scrolls with curse item ability. 10(28 hours ago, 22 files, 195+ 153-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f0d2d537d3c4 10:52:47 03wheals02 07* 0.18-a0-1295-g7742de9: Merge pull request #216 from alexjurkiewicz/ash-curse-abil 10(9 seconds ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7742de9b7a07 10:54:00 who is destroying my Ashenzari? 10:54:51 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:55:22 CHEQUERS 10:56:44 i was under the impression that there was a general consensus something like this would be better, though I expect this won't be the final stp 10:59:21 wheals: this general concensus certainly excludes me 10:59:59 Players can now choose the curse target, I take it? 11:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:09 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:00:12 i felt it was awkward to have this intermediate step that becomes an interface burden later in the game 11:00:33 something to make the path a bit less straightforward in the very start would sound good though 11:00:34 yes, it is certainly more streamlined this way 11:01:00 but I am afraid the curse management game disappears, too... 11:02:15 one possibility is to up the cost to two remove curse scrolls, which could put further pressure at that time 11:03:10 I promise to play an Ash game before filing a complaint. 11:03:45 this change should make switching more expensive 11:04:05 you can't trick me! i know you're going to log onto your alternate SA account and post about how the devs have made Ash CASUAL! 11:04:20 wheals: I wish I had an alternate SA account :P 11:04:38 Medar: so piety gain is easier, but item swap is harder? 11:04:38 the start will be easier, sure, but you still have to find the scroll and it's not like early ash power is too good 11:05:13 the dungeon courteously provides a cursed club! 11:05:21 well it will probably be harder to get all your stuff cursed, since you need remove curse equal to number of slots (or find cursed items) 11:05:40 unless you were really unlucky that wasn't the case previously 11:07:00 yes, like I said, I'll play a game with the change 11:07:49 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:11:28 -!- maha has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 44.0.1/20160205155049]] 11:15:26 -!- LexAckson__ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:16:16 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:18:25 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:19:13 -!- siepu_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:22:07 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:22:26 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:22:45 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:25:05 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:25:06 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 11:25:54 it does make switching significantly more difficult later on 11:26:55 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:35:46 -!- ursan has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:38:59 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:40:54 -!- sanka has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:52:02 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 11:53:37 -!- lobf has quit [Client Quit] 11:57:24 -!- roadmap has joined ##crawl-dev 11:58:44 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:58:50 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:30 -!- mopl is now known as mopl_away 12:08:55 -!- inire has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:09:04 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:09:08 -!- sid14726 has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:13:12 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:22 -!- molotove1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:18:24 -!- zwisch has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:18:27 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:20:36 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 12:23:11 -!- Gilihad has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:23:32 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 12:25:06 -!- tymate has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25:47 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1295-g7742de9 (34) 12:27:20 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:30:31 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:55 -!- aditya has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:35:00 -!- WebFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:04 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:08 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:35:10 technically, no evil spells have been removed yet. 12:35:10 WebFungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:36:08 regeneration 12:36:52 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:36:55 :P 12:36:56 i've been persuaded that regeneration does not need to go. 12:37:32 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:26 the Butcher of the Ring of Regeneration relents?? 12:38:55 (i never understood why the outcry over that happened) 12:39:15 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Client Quit] 12:39:23 i'd already forgotten that regen used to be a ring 12:39:29 but i think i'd be sad to lose the spell 12:39:40 I think it was vaguely seen as part of some wider nefarious plot, or... something? 12:39:52 it's not? 12:39:53 blessful amnesia has claimed the better part of those memories. 12:40:01 8-) 12:40:03 jefus: that's need-to-know. 12:40:16 wheals: the comments on that fanfic story are funny 12:40:22 you don't remember that either? i do need to know. 12:40:41 "I savescummed my way to victory, so I've seen it all. I'm done." 12:41:26 oh wow, a 4b26 logfile 12:41:35 ? 12:41:44 http://peripheralarbor.com/FrugalFinal.txt 12:42:07 in the parent of the comment you mentioned 12:42:27 ah, that's the guy talking about "linley's dungeon crawl"? 12:42:37 yeah 12:42:42 well, he spells it linely 12:42:45 haha, the gold values listed for everything - because that's important for score, of course! 12:42:51 linecrawly's dungeon sprint 12:43:00 also you could find a triple sword 12:43:07 this definitely ain't 4.1 12:43:21 ring of shaolin to 12:43:22 o 12:43:27 huh, randarts didn't have the property annotations back then? no {+inv} 12:43:47 yeah 12:43:51 D - the Orb of Zot (250000 gold) 12:43:52 that's cute 12:43:55 I forget, did we remove warding? 12:43:59 he knew 8 spells, 5 of which have been removed 12:44:04 yeah 12:44:21 only 4, surely? 12:44:32 unless you have some advance knowledge... 12:44:43 %git :/Mass Confusion 12:44:43 07gammafunk02 * 0.18-a0-814-gefcc28a: Fix various visibility checks to properly consider solid features 10(8 weeks ago, 1 file, 33+ 19-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/efcc28a4443c 12:44:49 i guess i imagined that 12:44:59 lasty's been talking about it 12:45:05 but hasn't pulled the trigger 12:45:22 yeah we were talking about it, i thought he did it as part of the alistair's changes but i guess not 12:45:37 idk what the plan is there right now 12:46:15 funny that all the weapons are roughly +4/+4 12:46:19 what a very precise number! 12:46:33 it's almost as though there's some reason... 12:47:47 was that the limit for guaranteed enchantment? 12:49:19 yep 12:49:37 also the point at which they couldn't be corroded 12:58:55 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:59:33 -!- molotove1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:59:49 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 13:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:16 -!- cmcbot has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:34 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03:31 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:07:31 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 13:07:33 I think Regeneration (the spell) is horrible, but it has this awesome Nec flavour. 13:08:25 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:09:03 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 13:09:12 I'm not convinced it is horrible. It's a tradeoff of regen for regen, like-for-like. Same as Sublimation of Blood. 13:09:22 mp for hp, hp for mp. 13:11:10 well the direction there is very significant, it's not really like sublimation at all 13:11:49 That's why it's slower, sure, since we don't want fast HP regain to be on a spell. Unless it's Borg's. 13:13:06 WebFungus: well, I agree it's not as bad as the others. 13:14:55 it's still very much a cast-before-combat thing, sublimation is not very useful to cast pre-fight 13:16:13 Generally not recommended. :) 13:17:50 MarvinPA: yes. Do you have an idea how to keep Regeneration? 13:18:22 The nice thing about regeneration is that, earlier, the skill & mp cost are more relevant, and later, the 1 hp/turn are less relevant; whereas something like ozo's, stoneskin, cshield becomes *more* powerful later. 13:18:49 not sure, i do agree it's not quite as bad as the plain +defense charms but i don't think it has much in its defense either 13:20:15 I can see an argument for fixing duration and reducing healing over time at lower power; this would make it less relevant in combat & reduce UI issues with recasting, but keep its mp->hp regen game intact. 13:20:20 -!- Turgon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:21:05 would also make it less of a no-brainer 13:21:22 ? 13:23:49 -!- grimmulfr has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26:13 wheals/chequers: nice change re: Ash, IMO. 13:26:26 -!- maxaitor has quit [Client Quit] 13:26:42 Tho I know dpeg disagrees :) 13:26:59 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:16 WebFungus: what's the reasoning for keeping Regen spell? 13:28:27 I would have thought that it was at the top of lists of offenders 13:28:40 Well, no, we already removed the top of the lists. 13:28:48 Top of the remaining list :p 13:28:58 There's always going to be a list! 13:29:03 Imho the top of the current list is r/dmsl 13:29:05 And we have to always remove the top! 13:29:09 <.< >.> 13:29:10 !remove Lasty_ 13:29:11 03WebFungus * 0.18-a0-1557-g0f22548: Remove Lasty_ 10(in the future, 40 files, 526+ 691-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/commit.png?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0f22548 13:29:18 huh, didn't realize that was functionality 13:29:18 neat 13:29:21 haha 13:29:44 srsly tho, why is the Regeneration spell a good thing to have in the game? 13:29:56 -!- maxaitor has quit [Client Quit] 13:30:47 It's a neat little fast-healing engine, especially in combination with sublimation - I enjoy using those two together - and it's good flavor for the necromancy school. A good mechanic to have in its toolbox. 13:30:55 It's not *critical* for the game, but not much is 13:31:25 I don't think the problems with the spell are huge, pressing, or insolvable, and I think it's sometimes neat to use. 13:32:16 This is from the perspective of someone who likes to play 'speedrun-lite', minimizing turn count within reason - I recognize that many players do not have that perspective, so my feelings about 'fun' may not be widely shared. 13:33:22 WebFungus: but we added plenty of Regen items recently! 13:33:28 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:33:41 (this does not help with your speedrungs, I realise this) 13:33:42 I don't quite understand what you're saying. 13:34:24 there are more non-spell sources of regeneration now 13:34:31 Like what? 13:34:52 randarts 13:35:09 robe of vines! 13:35:18 My eyes are rolling @ wheals. 13:35:47 robe of vines!! 13:36:05 Anyway, silliness aside, I'm re-reading my own reasoning and am no longer convinced that Regen makes sense as a spell effect. 13:36:18 I don't think it's urgent that it be removed, but feel free to do whatever. 13:36:24 * dpeg pats WebFungus on the back. 13:36:49 In retaliation, however, I will add ten new spells for every buff removed! 13:39:04 only poison spells, I assume? 13:39:09 players want poison spells 13:39:42 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:39:44 Of course. 13:40:00 And if they want poison, I will drown them in it! 13:40:25 -!- BigBluFrog has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:40:46 +1 13:40:58 at last, poison spells higher than level 6 13:44:47 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:46:57 need to write up some new charms and tlocs 13:47:01 really revitalize the schools... 13:47:23 actually none of the charms spells have been removed with these changes yet :v 13:47:23 ??charms[2 13:47:23 list of spells by school[2/14]: school[2/14]: Charms: {infusion}, {repel missiles}, {shroud of golubria}, {swiftness}, {ozocubu's armour}, {regeneration}, {spectral weapon}, {warp weapon}, {excruciating wounds}, {deflect missiles}, {haste}, {ring of flames}, {death's door} 13:47:43 right, cshield was pure ice, stoneskin was earth 13:47:48 earth/tmut 13:47:49 ??stoneskin 13:47:49 stoneskin[1/2]: 8+2d(power) turns of +(2 + pow/20) AC. Incompatible with Ozo's, Cigotuvi's, being undead, and all transforms except Statue Form and Blade Hands. Sorry, Crawl doesn't want you to have much AC. However, unlike Ozocubu's Armour, Stoneskin will work with heavy armour. Removed in 0.18. 13:47:52 right 13:47:56 I wasn't sure 13:48:04 phase shift was tloc, ofc 13:48:18 rip phase shift, one of the few survivors of the divintations school 13:48:32 are there others? 13:48:44 also, man, you *really* have problems with the word 'divinations' 13:49:14 -!- sid14726 has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:49:14 the davenport school 13:49:39 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:50:22 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 13:51:07 there's an ottoman joke in here somewhere 13:51:45 at least this time it was merely a misspelling rather than a completely different word 13:52:37 actually it was the last survivor 13:52:46 (see invisible was removed a long time ago) 13:53:38 end of an era 13:55:12 i'm looking at the list of old divinations spells, on the vague principle that it's sometimes interesting to revive old ideas with a twist 13:55:18 but absolutely none of these are reasonable spell effects 13:56:54 I remember people were complaining when divinations was removed that the devs were destroying an entire playstyle 13:57:19 (the playstyle being "use detect monsters every few steps like a robot to never be caught by surprise by enemies ever") 13:57:35 -!- Harudoku` has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:59:51 sounds like angband 14:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:04 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 14:00:37 I remember when insulation and see invisible as spells were removed and that made people complain too 14:03:23 players complaining...? I don't know about this one, lightli. 14:03:26 it sounds pretty implausible to me. 14:04:24 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:05:08 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 14:09:34 WebFungus: sorry, got called away. I know that Regen is strong and in particular complements Sublimation nicely, and I know it helps shave turns, but none of that changes that 1) it's cheap healing that's generally unavailable in the game, and 2) you're strongly incentivized to cast it before and after every fight. 14:10:40 I don't think the effect of Regen is bad, but I think the delivery system is, and at the very least we should consider how to improve it. 14:10:43 I don't think the healing is that big a deal 14:10:50 your point (1) 14:11:16 it's slow enough that it doesn't function as an emergency button 14:11:30 which is the thing we want to really keep a tight grip on 14:12:19 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.18-a0-1296-g1c6b60e: Revert "Reduce !cure mutation shop price" 10(71 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1c6b60e1a9b1 14:12:19 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.18-a0-1297-gbb7c987: Allow monsters to shout when stabbed with ranged attacks 10(64 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bb7c98707da8 14:13:08 MarvinPA: q: can paralysed monsters shout? 14:13:16 WebFungus: yeah, definitely not an emergency button 14:14:40 i didn't think so, but possibly 14:14:54 !source mon-behv.cc 14:14:54 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/mon-behv.cc 14:14:58 yeah it looks like it's just sleep that stops it 14:15:09 that seems weird 14:15:17 also, fixable 14:15:51 Lasty_: my feeling is that it'd be plausible to reduce the incentive to cast it before every fight, but the spell's design goal is basically to be cast after every fight. not something you can fix 14:16:09 hence, my comment about talking myself out of defending the spell 14:17:29 !source handle_monster_shouts 14:17:29 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/shout.cc#l97 14:18:08 -!- simples has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:19:32 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:19:48 WebFungus: I agree that the spell design would have to change significantly in order to get it to a place where it doesn't encourage spammy use. 14:20:04 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:24:43 could have it react to damage like pbp (so taking sufficient damage triggers some amount of regen) to stop it being effective when cast after fights, but that doesn't solve casting it before them 14:25:04 unless you make it always-on ala repel/deflect missiles 14:25:59 ideally that's a thing to remove rather than to add to more places, imo 14:26:32 i should implement my *msl rework before someone removes them 14:26:38 someone........ 14:26:52 MarvinPA: I'm fine with that too 14:27:29 MarvinPA: I think there's a lot to be said for removing everything that's not very good as-is and then considering whether to try to build something newer and better that occupies some of the same design space. 14:27:32 here's the version of regeneration that works fine as a spell: vampiric draining 14:27:41 WebFungus: true! 14:27:41 it's powered by death! 14:28:16 plausibly there's room for a Greater Vampiricism if we really want, though yred would be upset :) 14:30:27 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.18-a0-1298-gc880faa: Don't let paralysed monsters shout (PleasingFungus) 10(2 minutes ago, 3 files, 4+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c880faa72420 14:31:17 mm, refactoring 14:31:24 but technically positive loc :) 14:31:27 ??needle 14:31:27 needles[1/2]: Needles come in a variety of flavours, each with an individual status effect. They do not cause direct damage (except for curare). 14:31:30 ??needle[2 14:31:30 needles[2/2]: Needle brands are: poison, curare, paralysis, sleep, confusion, slow, and frenzy. Currently only poison and curare do not use the checks described at {blowgun}. 14:31:40 do we really have all of those 14:31:45 !source cannot_move 14:31:46 1/3. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/mon-info.cc#l1770 14:31:50 !source monster::cannot_move 14:31:50 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc#l3047 14:31:52 !source monster::cannot_act 14:31:52 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc#l3042 14:32:00 I really hate those functions 14:32:34 slow isn't gone apparently 14:32:36 so i guess petrified monsters can shout 14:33:09 that seems like something that doesn't need to be a needle alongside confusion/paralysis/frenzy 14:34:00 not to mention that there's already a needle that slows things 14:34:04 if they can breathe, they can shout. probably sounds a bit funny but who exactly is going to notice? 14:35:29 wow _determine_missile_brand 14:35:30 help 14:35:40 but undead can't breathe and can shout, and sleepers can breath and can 14:35:42 't shout 14:36:10 I didn't mean that as a generality 14:36:26 !source _determine_missile_brand 14:36:26 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc#l494 14:36:57 MarvinPA: got curare? 14:37:44 indeed......... 14:37:47 honestly, that code could be a *lot* worse. I'm sure it was a chain of "if (one_chance_in(...))" at some point, like old acq code. 14:37:52 those were the days! 14:37:59 probably true 14:38:03 xom.cc :') 14:38:06 Read Code Bottom To Top To Calculate Probabilities 14:38:36 some day a hero will make xom effect choices understandable by mortals 14:39:07 but not today and definitely not me! 14:41:13 silly mortal, Xom's choices are never understandable! 14:43:07 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 14:43:34 why is there code here to create steel/silver throwing nets 14:43:55 ! 14:44:04 (it can never trigger) 14:45:49 but it could if acquirement was allowed to reroll missile brands, i think! 14:45:49 if (item.base_type != OBJ_WEAPONS && item.base_type != OBJ_ARMOUR) 14:45:49 return; // don't reroll missile brands, I guess 14:46:03 very confident-sounding code 14:46:10 :) 14:46:52 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 14:47:06 %git 03293efdcadea4df1bdb90b649f811c95d0285cb 14:47:06 07due02 * 0.6.0-a1-1873-g03293ef: Start of range combat overhaul: ego changes. (dpeg) 10(6 years ago, 1 file, 118+ 38-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/03293efdcade 14:47:13 Nets: Steel, Silver, Chaos. 14:47:15 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:47:35 yes chaos is a valid brand for vault-placed nets apparently 14:47:39 * geekosaur woners about min str to throw a silver net >.> 14:47:44 The orc is caught in the net! 14:47:45 The throwing net of chaos freezes the orc. 14:47:52 that's actually kinda cool 14:48:11 someone should make a vault with that, before it's removed. like nicolae's longdoor trap-vault 14:48:11 until it crashes, probably 14:48:18 that was a good vault 14:48:20 they'd better be quick! 14:48:45 haha 14:49:23 throwing nets of chaos mulch and so crawl thinks they're webs, also 14:50:13 !blame3 dpeg 14:50:13 dpeeeeeg 14:50:30 awesome 14:50:35 now that's chaos... 14:50:38 it goes all the way back to the original proposal https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:combat:rc 14:51:06 i,i web of chaos 14:52:23 good is_missile_brand_ok comment: 14:52:29 case SPMSL_BLINDING: 14:52:29 // possible on ex-pies 14:54:30 is... is that nethack 14:54:38 ??pie[-1 14:54:39 pie[3/3]: You throw a tomahawk. The tomahawk blinds the orb of fire. 14:54:41 i wonder when chaos got removed from the list of possible throwing net brands without noticing that the other ones couldn't ever trigger 14:54:54 " You're aware that +10 enchantments don't exist, steel arrows don't exist, 33str/40 dex is rather unlikely, and that speed isn't a typical brand, never mind on a GSC, right?" 14:55:13 that was part of the jester april fools thing. then tomahawks were added on the same enum and saved games became interesting 14:56:38 oh i guess none of these checks actually trigger on vault placement anyway, so you can do all sorts of terrible things 14:57:09 The throwing net of returning hits the orc for 0. 14:57:09 The orc is caught in the net! 14:57:09 _The throwing net of returning returns to your pack! 14:57:23 *snrk* 14:57:24 another web? 14:57:29 yup 14:58:32 wow, there's a discussion on that page about the proper weights for different ammo types 14:58:38 don't want arrows to be too heavy! 14:58:40 it's amazing to see just how long people have been trying to fix ranged combat 14:59:00 inspiring? 14:59:20 also funny to see people arguing about what ammo enchantment should do 14:59:29 not having it just feels so natural 14:59:56 WebFungus, depressing more like 15:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:02 be positive :) 15:00:04 -!- WebFungus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:00:11 wowww this is highly excellent: The orc is caught in the net! The exploding throwing net explodes! [...] The explosion of throwing net fragments engulfs you! You become entangled in the net! 15:00:36 -!- zxc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:26 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:01:55 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 15:01:58 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Changing host] 15:01:59 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 15:02:09 netsplosions don't seem to catch monsters though, just the player 15:02:19 still quite amazing 15:05:04 -!- inire has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:05:18 -!- halv has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:06:24 -!- ursan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:08:42 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 15:11:44 explosion of exploding throwing net fragments 15:23:51 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 15:25:33 -!- BigBluFrog has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:26:21 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:30:11 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.18-a0-1299-ge3c6ce7: Remove some unused throwing net branding code 10(35 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e3c6ce73ea95 15:32:37 -!- WebFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 15:32:42 marvinpa: ...but this doesn't disable it for vaults, right...? 15:32:53 imagine the novelty! 15:33:56 -!- edsrzf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:35:08 vaults are still a wild west of unregulated ego usage 15:36:16 mm... 15:36:43 rename "throwing net of returning" to "webcaster" 15:37:45 -!- sid14726 has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:37:54 starting role "spiderman"? 15:39:40 ! 15:40:30 -!- LordSloth has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:40:59 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:42:59 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:06 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:54:33 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 16:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:56 -!- edsrzf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:05:20 -!- Badiou has quit [Client Quit] 16:07:35 -!- ursan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:09:03 -!- Utis has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:24 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:28 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:20:33 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 16:20:38 -!- droogie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:26:16 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:22 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 16:27:50 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 16:29:35 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:31:39 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 16:32:25 question 16:32:31 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:32:33 how are haste and invis viewed as spells 16:36:13 "with the I command" 16:36:25 lol 16:36:40 I would also accept ?/S 16:37:12 i was thinking more along the lines of "they are viewed as spells because you spend MP to cast them, and Spellcasting reduces their fail%" 16:37:48 they were addressed in the crd mail, at least in passing 16:38:33 there's been talk of making haste potion-only... 16:39:22 -!- elvira has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:39:54 I do think pakellas wand of haste is a bit busted 16:40:20 no more than pakellas /hw 16:40:41 which i'll concede is not the greatest argument for keeping the /hw wand 16:40:55 I think quick charge shouldn't be able to restore 1 charge if you're at like, really low mp 16:41:01 as it is you can be at like 2 mp 16:41:10 and give yourself another haste/hw charge 16:42:43 maybe quick charge could have the piety cost on it raised 16:43:13 I wonder if it'd make sense to switch quick charge and the high-power wand use effect - can't remember the name 16:43:23 Power Surge? 16:43:26 ya 16:43:28 it feels like the latter is underused, and the former keeps having issues raised 16:43:45 I think the latter is underused only because it's a bit opaque. 16:43:49 yeah I didn't use power surge more than a couple times 16:43:53 It's pretty effective when it rolls 3x 16:44:10 the low-mp case, and the high-mp case ('theoretical optimal play is to recharge whenever you reach max mp! thish, I say, ish Tedium') 16:44:22 i might've used power surge more if it worked right with hex wands 16:44:25 when i did my pak run 16:44:37 like I don't really understand how much stronger it makes something, so I'm often not willing to spend 2 turns using it 16:44:53 device surge doesn't take a turn to set up 16:44:55 Turning Pak's mana conduct into "killing monsters may randomly give charges to a wand" would resolve the tedious aspect 16:45:17 doesn't it? I thought it took a turn to use it 16:45:20 nope 16:45:25 it takes an action that takes 0 AUT 16:45:26 of course then it's not giving charges to the wands that need it, necessarily 16:45:36 hm 16:45:41 Lasty_: Wouldn't it be optimal to just drop all the wands you don't want recharged and then pick them back up? 16:45:42 ProzacElf: yeah, that part would be a nerf, but that's probably for the best. 16:45:47 Lightli: true! 16:46:03 like that makes recasting charms look not tedious in comparison 16:46:10 Lightli: which would be terrible! Theoretically you could randomly charge -any- wand in the dungeon, but that feels weird. 16:46:28 also, causes technical issues 16:46:37 there are still bugs associated with jivya item eating, iirc 16:46:38 I don't think it's really a problem to have it be "optimal" to use quick charge when you hit max mp 16:46:53 not much of one, anyway 16:46:56 WebFungus: dang, really? 16:47:35 iirc there are issues with duplicate messages for portal vault entrances caused by the level being "re-entered" whenever jivya off-level item eating triggers 16:47:41 I don't *think* that was ever fixed? 16:48:09 that's not really item eating bug though 16:48:24 I assume X[ would do the same right? 16:48:29 not sure 16:48:30 -!- siepu_ has quit [*.net *.split] 16:48:30 -!- scummos| has quit [*.net *.split] 16:48:31 -!- FireSight has quit [*.net *.split] 16:48:33 -!- orost has quit [*.net *.split] 16:48:33 -!- Finwe has quit [*.net *.split] 16:48:33 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [*.net *.split] 16:48:34 -!- twzt has quit [*.net *.split] 16:48:34 -!- herself has quit [*.net *.split] 16:48:34 -!- swisschard has quit [*.net *.split] 16:48:35 -!- Kalma has quit [*.net *.split] 16:48:36 -!- Kramell has quit [*.net *.split] 16:48:36 -!- cojito has quit [*.net *.split] 16:48:36 -!- unpaidbill has quit [*.net *.split] 16:48:44 unless pak's mana recharge got improved, you don't gain mp all *that* quickly with him 16:49:02 or at least it felt a lot weaker than makh hp on kill or veh mp on kill 16:49:05 Medar: one would think so 16:49:06 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:49:20 ProzacElf: yes, it regens way slower 16:49:56 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:50:48 i suppose it is still optimal to quick charge every time you hit max mp 16:51:08 Yeah, generally 16:51:11 but in practice i saved it for /hw and /haste when they started getting low 16:51:18 it technically burns a little piety, but it really rarely matters 16:51:35 nah. piety gain feels faster than mp gain on him tbh 16:51:42 it's probably not actually 16:51:47 thing is with pak I've felt like my wands are topped off a lot of the time 16:51:59 but the way i played i was more concerned about my mp at any given point 16:52:01 so "charge each time you're at max" didn't matter that much to me 16:52:04 I got the blame. 16:52:11 also the fact that auto-recharge on rods exists 16:52:22 my objection to pak, after one short game with him, is that it turns MP into a second piety meter 16:52:24 and there are usually about 18 of any given attack wand by a certain point in the game 16:52:36 really means that quick charge is basically there for the good wands 16:52:38 quick charge was also quite tedious 16:52:41 and maybe a rod in a real emergency 16:52:55 WebFungus: that got fixed 16:53:02 ahh 16:53:04 i'm old and out of date! 16:53:10 My main problem with Pak is that he's really, really easy and plays pretty similarly each game. 16:53:23 !polytheist 16:53:28 someone told me he's too weak 16:53:28 Unwon gods for amalloy: Pakellas 16:53:40 WebFungus: that someone was wrong 16:53:43 someone was wrong, though 16:53:48 !lg Lasty_ pak s=char 16:53:49 2 games for Lasty_ (pak): SpAr, DEWn 16:53:55 dewn, huh! 16:54:00 !lg Lasty_ pak dewn 16:54:01 !lg lasty pak / won s=char 16:54:01 1. Lasty the Grand Gadgeteer (L26 DEWn of Pakellas), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2015-12-16 03:41:32, with 1545143 points after 82016 turns and 5:00:05. 16:54:02 3/3 games for lasty (pak): 1/1x SpAr [100.00%], 1/1x DEWn [100.00%], 1/1x HuAr [100.00%] 16:54:06 i died as ^pak only because i got him at an awkward time from my only use of a faded altar ever. he's really strong 16:54:07 lol 16:54:15 that certainly seems fixable 16:54:47 a lack of variety is a more serious criticism, though not necessarily critical (there are plenty of gods which are pretty self-similar from game to game) 16:54:54 at least pak is accomplishing grunt's stated goal: encourage people to use rods more 16:55:26 heh 16:55:43 i use rods on most guys anyway 16:55:45 but i already have an "I <3 \" t-shirt 16:55:49 WebFungus: are you talking about reflexive gods? 16:56:00 but hey, the rod god got me to use them even more 16:56:03 I use rods always, if I find them 16:56:34 dpeg: it's possible that I was transiting through that line of thought 16:56:56 huh, just realized grunt added Rods From God 16:58:27 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:58:53 god rod mod? 16:59:26 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.4/20160105164030]] 16:59:27 Rod loves you! 17:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:40 Rods are great -- if they spawned more, I'd use them more 17:00:55 WebFungus: Rod God, This is Todd. 17:01:24 chars I don't use rods on: guys using vamp weapons, Ashenzarites 17:02:43 followed by the Rod Steward 17:02:57 -!- molotove2 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:03:14 WebFungus: I'd be less worried about the power on Pak if I thought the god help up well as a weaker god. I feel like the main draw is the easy access to the very powerful effects on rods. 17:03:43 help up well as a weaker god? 17:05:05 "held up well", I think? 17:05:13 "hold up well" yeah 17:05:19 er held 17:05:21 bleh 17:05:57 bleh backwards is help :) 17:05:58 so, to paraphrase to make sure I'm getting you, 'you wouldn't have a problem with pak being strong if you thought it was...' fun? distinctive? 17:06:03 helb? 17:06:07 !flip bleh 17:06:07 (╯°□°)╯︵ɥǝlq 17:06:14 pleh 17:06:23 WebFungus: yeah, fun. 17:06:39 WebFungus: I mean, Pak is fun because rods are fun, and rods are fun because rod effects are strong. 17:06:54 WebFungus: but the second Pak isn't giving you limitless strong rod effects, he isn't fun. 17:07:22 I should probably play more at some point. 17:07:23 !hs . pak 17:07:24 No games for WebFungus (pak). 17:07:27 what 17:07:29 oh 17:07:30 fedhas still wins the tedium bowl though =p 17:07:37 WHO IS THIS WEB FUNGUS? 17:07:37 !hs PleasingFungus pak 17:07:38 4. PleasingFungus the Basher (L15 DsWn of Pakellas), slain by a thrashing horror (kmap: grunt_abyss_rune_the_horror) on Abyss:3 on 2015-12-20 21:44:37, with 72130 points after 20322 turns and 1:31:09. 17:07:48 !nick WebFungus PleasingFungus 17:07:49 Mapping webfungus => pleasingfungus 17:07:51 !lg PleasingFungus pak / won 17:07:51 0/4 games for PleasingFungus (pak): N=0/4 (0.00%) 17:07:54 buff plz 17:08:17 !lg * recent s=god / won o=% 17:08:20 You lost a DsWn? Don't you know that's only one letter away from the best character that could ever exist? 17:08:21 12462/1188277 games for * (recent): 183/1774x Jiyva [10.32%], 367/3804x Zin [9.65%], 1092/11476x The Shining One [9.52%], 141/3039x Pakellas [4.64%], 803/17623x Ashenzari [4.56%], 1061/24358x Makhleb [4.36%], 501/11989x Gozag [4.18%], 547/13131x Ru [4.17%], 950/23143x Cheibriados [4.10%], 197/5259x Yredelemnul [3.75%], 113/3263x Elyvilon [3.46%], 170/5124x Beogh [3.32%], 483/14993x Dithmenos [3.22... 17:08:47 and ofc the tso/zin/jivya games aren't quite comparable 17:08:59 !lg greaterplayers recent !boring pak / won 17:09:01 35/145 games for greaterplayers (recent !boring pak): N=35/145 (24.14%) 17:09:14 !lg greaterplayers recent !boring / won s=god o=% 17:09:16 3363/32747 games for greaterplayers (recent !boring): 47/105x Beogh [44.76%], 149/376x The Shining One [39.63%], 58/160x Jiyva [36.25%], 93/328x Zin [28.35%], 71/253x Qazlal [28.06%], 78/309x Yredelemnul [25.24%], 299/1192x Ashenzari [25.08%], 35/145x Pakellas [24.14%], 166/714x Ru [23.25%], 134/590x Kikubaaqudgha [22.71%], 163/720x Dithmenos [22.64%], 107/483x Gozag [22.15%], 45/206x Elyvilon [21... 17:09:32 man, zin is slacking 17:09:39 lmao @ beogh 17:09:47 I can't remember if I'm a greaterplayer 17:09:50 Beogh is high because you have to be a HO 17:09:53 probably not 17:09:58 beogh is my only 100% winrate god left 17:10:01 !greaterplayer webfungus 17:10:02 you know who else was high...? 17:10:06 i even lost a trog and a jiyva 17:10:10 Unwon backgrounds for webfungus: Air Elementalist, Fire Elementalist, Summoner 17:10:16 so cloooose 17:10:19 so close with some of those, too 17:10:21 !hs . su 17:10:22 18. PleasingFungus the Demonologist (L27 HESu of Sif Muna), blasted by the Serpent of Hell (crystal spear) on Dis:7 (dis_hangedman) on 2014-11-14 01:12:05, with 877218 points after 82945 turns and 12:10:06. 17:10:25 ouch 17:10:28 I blame doy for everything 17:10:37 seems reasonable 17:10:43 that was gonna be the hesu high score if I'd actually won it, iirc 17:10:48 not now tho 17:10:57 I've lost way more Jiyvas than I should have 17:10:58 goalposts keep shifting... sad. 17:11:07 !lg . jiyva / won 17:11:08 1/5 games for Lasty_ (jiyva): N=1/5 (20.00%) 17:11:11 ouch 17:11:15 i'm no longer polytheist :( 17:11:22 amalloy: best get on that! 17:11:28 i lose jiyva because i refuse to switch to him =p 17:11:33 On a completely unrelated note, I could use more testers/feedback . . . 17:11:35 i haven't really been playing under amalloy 17:11:38 and since it's become that much harder to take him early.... 17:11:45 Lasty_: on Ukayaw? 17:11:48 amalloy: are you one of the comborobin scum??? 17:11:49 speaking of playtesting uka..... 17:11:51 dpeg: yep! 17:11:55 i left a game partway through that i was recording, and i haven't really felt like recording for a while 17:11:59 ProzacElf is an all-star. 17:12:02 so i've played a few comborobins, yes 17:12:03 !lg * ukayaw 17:12:04 151. ProzacElf the Covert (L8 VSEE of Ukayaw), slain by a four-headed hydra on D:6 (minmay_three_doors) on 2016-02-10 21:57:05, with 1549 points after 6003 turns and 0:17:43. 17:12:12 haha 17:12:12 !lg * ukayaw s=name o=% 17:12:13 yeah 17:12:13 151 games for * (ukayaw): perunasaurus, shoop, Mygna, SmellyPooPoo, Infest, FIQ, chonchonts, password, archaeo, shoobs, LordNerd, mg7810, Quazifuji, puppums, infinitevox, demonblade, djmy96, LogicNinja, Sharkman1231, flyleaff, johnl023, tabstorm, Xenophilius, ayayaya, Quilel, Magatonman, Modest, KingShit420, Inquiry, Centarion, mdk, rakan, namelastname112, Speleothing, GoodGuyCap, comborobin, 2x S... 17:12:17 erg 17:12:17 that didn't work out for me 17:12:17 i was working on spgl to get greatspriggan, and some jerk started and finished a spgl game while i had 2 runes 17:12:27 despite my vamp short sword and manaregen amulet 17:12:29 ProzacElf: what I'm getting at is that you've played the most Ukayaw games 17:12:35 yes 17:12:38 Lasty_: I played a bunch, and yesterday died in Zig:13 with 3 runes. To me, piety flow was really good. It can probably be improved, but I liked it a lot (and I have no ideas how to improve it). 17:12:43 !lg . jivya / won 17:12:44 No keyword 'jivya' 17:12:49 !lg * ukayaw s=name 17:12:49 151 games for * (ukayaw): 16x ProzacElf, 15x neil, 9x Thraspic, 7x inqbanana, 7x moose, 6x dpeg, 6x grisamentum, 6x stevs, 5x mibe, 5x Jarlyk2, 5x smeego, 4x Lightli, 4x arglypuff, 3x edsrzf, 3x Lasty, 2x Weresquid, 2x WalkerBoh, 2x Psaro, 2x sugabear, 2x Ironfoot, 2x dracos369, 2x Sar, Centarion, ayayaya, Quilel, Magatonman, Modest, KingShit420, Inquiry, Xenophilius, mdk, rakan, namelastname112, ... 17:12:51 wait, really 17:12:52 there we go 17:12:56 Used Stomp never and the line thing only for the repositioning, never for the confuse :( 17:12:59 oh hey, |amethyst is an all-star too 17:13:02 !lg . jiyva / won 17:13:03 0/2 games for WebFungus (jiyva): N=0/2 (0.00%) 17:13:05 feh 17:13:09 dpeg: I buffed Stomp. You should try it out. 17:13:10 really? i use it for the confusion 17:13:16 six most prolific Ukayawist! 17:13:19 i mean, repositioning is cool, but free confuse is great 17:13:20 dpeg: Line pass for repositioning is really solid. 17:13:29 ProzacElf: I am not saying I played well, I just cannot comment it. 17:13:50 my problem is not getting invo high enough i think 17:13:53 partially at least 17:14:00 dpeg: oo, made it to Zig:13? Very nice. 17:14:02 Lasty_: gameplay was really different. By the way, I went for a MiGl with axes, to see if not-stabbing can be worthwhile with Ukayaw. It certainly is. 17:14:14 of course i'm also using a lot of guys that are probably suboptimal for uka 17:14:26 i should try vptm on uka again 17:14:29 dpeg: if you played yesterday, I rebalanced piety towards big hits before that 17:14:39 dpeg: axes were already solid, but they should be moreso now 17:14:42 Lasty_: I had a really good amulet, but switched to Faith in the ziggurat. That was a very interesting decision, and I have no clue what'd been correct. 17:14:45 dpeg: I need to get another game going 17:14:48 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14:58 faith seemed pretty solid on uka when i tried it 17:15:01 dpeg: I love "faith on Ukayaw. Really different from how it normally plays. 17:15:05 yes 17:15:12 and there's really practically no penalty for swapping 17:15:16 ProzacElf: yeah, I've tried to make high Invo very important 17:15:19 unless you do it in the middle of a fight 17:15:22 haha yeah 17:15:30 I am a sucker for this "just one more kill" feeling. And you can control it..., it is not blindly dashing into crowds. 17:15:41 !lg dpeg 17:15:41 heh 17:15:42 2439. dpeg the Chiller (L9 HuIE of Gozag), slain by LordSloth's ghost in Ossuary (ossuary_tomb_3) on 2016-02-10 14:52:53, with 1787 points after 7877 turns and 0:24:14. 17:15:47 yeah, i stay in fights too long with him too 17:15:49 !lg dpeg -1 17:15:50 2439. dpeg the Chiller (L9 HuIE of Gozag), slain by LordSloth's ghost in Ossuary (ossuary_tomb_3) on 2016-02-10 14:52:53, with 1787 points after 7877 turns and 0:24:14. 17:15:52 !lg dpeg -2 17:15:53 2438/2439. dpeg the Rhythm of Life and Death (L27 MiGl of Ukayaw), slain by a stone giant (shapeshifter) on Zig:16 on 2016-02-09 12:45:12, with 658546 points after 87436 turns and 4:44:35. 17:15:53 -!- Shard1697_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:15:54 dpeg: "just one more kill" / "just one more piety star" is how I lost my last Ukayaw worshipper in Zot:5 17:15:54 that piety meter is like candy 17:16:02 yeah, totally 17:16:07 !lg lasty ukayaw 17:16:08 3. Lasty the Dancer (L27 KoEn of Ukayaw), mangled by an Orb Guardian on Zot:5 (hall_of_Zot) on 2016-02-06 21:49:13, with 557619 points after 70517 turns and 4:13:58. 17:16:20 Also involved: orb of fire, curse toe 17:16:22 ProzacElf: I had to beg and whine for that piety meter quite a bit :) 17:16:27 haha 17:16:38 all right. gonna vptm this 17:16:45 and see if i even live to see an altar =p 17:17:13 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:17:27 ProzacElf: haha 17:17:34 awright, time for me to head home 17:17:46 heh 17:18:02 i have determined that the secret there is to pretend you don't even have spells until you get UC to 10 or so though 17:18:46 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 17:19:07 haha 17:19:28 -!- rossi_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.3] 17:22:56 -!- Krenium has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:57 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:57 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:57 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:57 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:57 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:58 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:58 -!- siepu__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:58 -!- droogie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:58 -!- neongrey has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:24:04 how could the code even let paralyzed monsters shout 17:24:07 something sounds off there 17:24:12 what about sleeping ones 17:27:04 you should maybe look at the relevant commit before asking questions about it. it's not a long commit 17:28:21 -!- sorlin1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:29:46 -!- LordSloth has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:33:19 -!- elvira_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:34:00 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 17:38:14 -!- serq has quit [Changing host] 17:38:45 -!- tealeaves has quit [Client Quit] 17:40:25 -!- mamgar has quit [Client Quit] 17:42:45 -!- WebFungus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:46:50 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 17:48:38 -!- LexAckson__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:56:37 <|amethyst> I can't stay long for discussion, but is anyone thinking about 0.18/tournament dates? 17:56:51 <|amethyst> %git 0.17.0 17:56:51 07gammafunk02 * 0.17.0: Update the debian changelog for 0.17 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d28015d53230 17:56:56 <|amethyst> %git 0.17-b1 17:56:56 07gammafunk02 * 0.17-b1: List the final 0.17 version in the changelog 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b0deb92d8f73 17:57:57 -!- SirVagabond has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:58:04 <|amethyst> 6 months would put us into May, which is kind of late for the tournament but then so was November 17:58:22 -!- Krenium has quit [] 17:58:37 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:45 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 17:59:09 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 18:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:10 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:04:37 -!- elvira_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:06:03 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:10:03 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.18-a0-1299-ge3c6ce7 (34) 18:10:38 -!- sorlin has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:11:20 -!- molotove1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:12:08 on the ash change, I think this is a relatively large nerf to ash. You will find it hard to swap items more than a few times through a game 18:13:10 seems you've learned what to include to get your PRs merged :b 18:13:30 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:15:26 yes: just don't tell any of the devs who might potentially dislike it :P 18:16:08 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:17:15 <|amethyst> wheals: oh, you actually convinced a submitter to give you money? 18:19:21 it's not extortion if we're friends, right? 18:20:01 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:20:34 -!- ystael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:21:49 jokes on him, I paid with bitcoin and reversed the transaction! 18:23:53 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 18:26:38 -!- sorlin has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:26:48 -!- Vizer has quit [Client Quit] 18:27:58 -!- molotove has quit [Client Quit] 18:28:13 -!- nikheizen has joined ##crawl-dev 18:29:45 woah. throwing nets of chaos 18:29:48 yes please 18:30:34 nice 18:33:26 -!- zero_one has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:26 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 18:54:58 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:55:28 -!- neongrey has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:58:21 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:43 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 19:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:35 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:02:40 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:24 -!- caricature has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:09:49 -!- Bcadren has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:10:32 -!- Floodkiller has joined ##crawl-dev 19:10:46 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:13:32 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:18:32 -!- sid14726 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:19:52 -!- sorlin has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:22:02 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:22:29 -!- miek_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:26:12 -!- Ladykiller70 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:28:58 -!- morik has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:29:28 -!- agentgt_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:30:55 amalloy: wands too :) 19:30:58 but primarily rods 19:31:44 pak is okay at encouraging me to use wands more. i don't use them a ton 19:32:01 !rg . won nrune=3 -log 19:32:01 11/34. amalloy, XL25 OgHu, T:67313: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/amalloy/morgue-amalloy-20150524-102719.txt 19:32:19 Evoke: Wand | | | | | | 6 | | 4 | 9 || 19 19:32:22 disgustingly low 19:33:03 wow so many rods on http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/amalloy/morgue-amalloy-20150925-090825.txt 19:33:13 rip 19:33:48 pretty rodden? 19:35:28 -!- WorkSight has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:36:11 make rods non-wieldable and i'll enjoy pak 19:37:24 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:37:52 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:38:58 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 19:43:15 i think it's okay for rods to have to be wielded. the turn you have to spend swapping is the only reason not to just automatically spam the shit out of all your rods 19:43:47 if they could be evoked from inventory they'd be like...really good spells that only require you to train one school and don't cost MP 19:46:44 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:49:07 -!- siepu_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:49:08 -!- miek_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:49:38 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:50:11 plus rods would be reaaally similar to all other evokers 19:50:15 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 19:55:56 well, most evokers are already really similar to each other 19:56:38 so that's not exactly a compelling argument. rods would be unique imo, as like...wands which are stronger than regular wands, and also passively recharge themselves 19:57:06 which seems like an obviously-terrible place for rods to be 19:57:07 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 20:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:23 yeah, the time spent to wield and unwield a rod, combined with the shallow pool of shots most of them have (even if they recharge themselves), differentiates them a lot from wands 20:02:49 -!- molotove has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:14:30 -!- grimmulfr has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:47 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:21:14 -!- molotove has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:42:45 -!- molotove has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:43:27 -!- serq has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:46:06 -!- ursan has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:50:56 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:59:05 !tell |amethyst i'm surprised you couldn't find a better item to represent yourself in-game: the +0 cloak "Neil" {rElec rC- MR+} 20:59:06 amalloy: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 21:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:42 amalloy: it might balance rods, but it's tedious as heck 21:06:24 are pan lord rHellfire? 21:06:30 what determines rHellfire status? 21:06:40 -!- st__ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:07:20 -!- aditya has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:07:53 @??lom lobon 21:07:53 Lom Lobon (12&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 19 | HP: 323-463 | AC/EV: 10/20 | Dam: 4012(antimagic) | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter, unholy, see invisible, fly | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 10966 | Sp: glaciate (10-132) [06!sil], conjure ball lightning [06!sil], major healing [06!sil], tornado [06!sil], blink range [06.. 21:08:07 -!- PsyMar has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:08:21 -!- PsyMar2 is now known as PsyMar 21:08:45 chequers: MR_RES_HELLFIRE 21:09:18 separate form MR_RES_FIRE, and from MH_DEMONIC 21:11:56 @??cerebov 21:11:56 Cerebov (05&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 21 | HP: 540-782 | AC/EV: 30/8 | Dam: 60 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, unholy, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 22660 | Sp: fire storm (8d16 / 8d17) [06!sil], iron shot (3d36) [06!sil], haste [06!sil], sum.greater demon [06!sil] | Sz: Giant.. 21:12:00 huh. what would a monster do that causes "You hear a sizzling splash." other than drowning itself in lava? i just cast a loud spell, and then heard that noise 21:12:32 @??pandemonium lord 21:12:32 pandemonium lord (08&) | Spd: 10-19 | HD: 23 | HP: 124-230 | AC/EV: 14/15 | Dam: 35 | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter, unholy, see invisible | Res: 06magic(153), 05fire++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 5228 | Sp: (random) | Sz: Large | Int: human. 21:12:59 so pan lords can get hellfire but can't be rHellfire 21:14:23 -!- cang has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:15:18 -!- jefus has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:15:30 -!- Insomniak` has quit [*.net *.split] 21:15:30 -!- Grivan has quit [*.net *.split] 21:15:30 -!- droogie_ has quit [*.net *.split] 21:15:31 -!- st_ has quit [*.net *.split] 21:15:31 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [*.net *.split] 21:15:31 -!- phyphor has quit [*.net *.split] 21:16:13 Lasty1: idea for amulet of harm -- take the damage bond thing from ukay and put a weaker version onto it 21:22:41 -!- cangtab is now known as cang 21:24:47 -!- Ququman has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:11 yeah, it appears panlords lost the ability to get rhellfire when rf+++ was changed to be different 21:26:16 since it just gives them a random amount of rf and rc 21:29:49 chequers: why? 21:34:46 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 21:37:20 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:41:35 -!- jefus has joined ##crawl-dev 21:46:44 amalloy: pretty sure that's just lava drowning, though it could be firing a projectile that landed in lava? 21:47:45 c.f. the wonderfully named feat_splash_noise 21:47:58 -!- sid14726 has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:48:44 PleasingFungus: sure, those are the only two things i could think of, but i didn't think there were any confused monsters nearby, and nobody was shooting at me 21:49:12 the only think i can think of is maybe something i couldn't see shot at one of my skeletons, missing, and the projectile made it to a lava tile before falling 21:49:27 -!- Poncheis has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:40 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 21:53:25 -!- GauHelldragon2 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:55:08 what in the hell. i've seen this same vault three times in twenty minutes. once in the real dungeon, and then twice in abyss 21:55:41 the abyss mirrors your origin 21:55:43 sometimes 21:56:30 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:56:36 some vaults can also be tagged allow_dup 21:57:05 (most likely for decor vaults, I suspect) 21:57:15 PleasingFungus: but it was abyss:2 21:57:28 like, i entered a gate to abyss:1, went downstairs, and then saw this vault 21:57:31 then i teleported 21:57:32 and saw it again 21:57:50 i assume it's just a really unlikely occurrence and not a bug 21:58:40 could still be a feature! 21:58:42 idk the code 22:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:55 Lasty1: i feel like not many people are using the amulet of harm as it is 22:04:52 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 22:06:00 commentary I've seen in ##crawl suggests most players think it's amulet of suicide 22:06:29 I'm okay with people not realizing its value. I'm also okay with it being a soft-bad amulet to wear-ID 22:06:43 and/or use as a base for randarts 22:07:02 would be funny to make an autocurse amulet, like inacc 22:07:03 imo 22:07:24 * geekosaur hasn't actually encountered it yet... mostly due to lack of time to play :( 22:07:29 I much prefer the bad-effect-on-unequip to autocurse 22:07:34 cos the curse system sux!!! 22:07:49 if i wanted to micromanage crap that doesn't matter i'd be playing dwarf fortress 22:08:10 uh 22:08:22 didn't you just write a whole big curse thing for ash 22:08:32 he wants to bring down the system from the inside 22:08:34 so he has to get inside first 22:08:56 !send amalloy a facehugger 22:08:56 Sending a facehugger to amalloy. 22:09:14 imo, curses work well for ash & *curse items 22:09:34 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:09:58 what amalloy said 22:10:03 and what PleasingFungus said 22:10:12 I like ash's system of restricted item choice 22:10:33 but once you have ?rc identified cursing is just an interface annoyance for everyone else 22:10:56 -!- OCTOTROG1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:36 what if one in three enemies had mummy curses 22:11:59 or maybe one in ten 22:12:13 I guess then everyone would just play like ash. 22:12:33 yes, also my problem is that dealing with ?rc is micromanaging crap 22:13:10 in terms of waiting until more stuff is cursed/wear-id'd before burning rc, or? 22:14:14 that too, but just needing to read ?rc 22:14:39 oh i can't drop this -1 int ring, I need to find my rc scroll in the inventory list, blah blah blah 22:14:48 it's such a flow interrupting activity 22:15:33 I really like harm's design when I think of it as a deliberately bad amulet like inacc, because you deal with drain for a bit but removal is easy 22:15:36 that objection feels weird to me 22:16:02 !learn add amalloy_todo "You begin to rot!" is silly given that rot is instant 22:16:02 amalloy todo[7/7]: "You begin to rot!" is silly given that rot is instant 22:16:40 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:16:52 chequers: fwiw you don't have to deal with finding your ?rc in your inventory if you autoinscribe them with something like @r2 22:17:16 i have ?id@r1 ?rc@r2 ?tele@r3 22:17:31 not just talking about me the occasional patch submitter, but general player 22:18:08 i mean, i agree that ?rc is a pointless hassle after a certain point in the game 22:18:26 although i don't think that point is "as soon as you identify ?rc". for a little while in the early game it's a resource you're managing 22:19:02 -!- inire has quit [] 22:19:26 hmm 22:19:40 i was thinking about panlords having rhellfire 22:19:44 so i was generating them in wizmode 22:19:50 and i can't get an rf3 or rc3 panlord to generate 22:19:53 what's the deal with that 22:20:16 they should 22:20:24 no 22:20:25 i wrote the code 22:20:27 !source _panlord_random_resist_level 22:20:27 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/ghost.cc#l183 22:20:32 -1, 0, 1, 2 22:20:32 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:34 no 3 22:20:35 ah 22:20:48 i am now remembering discussing this with you ( PleasingFungus ) 22:20:56 so thats intended then 22:20:56 huh 22:20:59 you've got the advantage over me 22:21:25 from memory before this change like half of them were rf+++ 22:21:28 fwiw i remember this discussion but not who was in it 22:21:38 %git 325f162 22:21:38 07chequers02 * 0.17-a0-629-g325f162: Simplify pan lord rF/rC calculation. 10(10 months ago, 1 file, 7+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/325f1623ec6f 22:21:59 s/half/none/ ! 22:22:03 I guess I don't remember 22:22:03 do you remember if someone was in favor of panlords never being immune to fire or cold 22:22:16 nope 22:22:43 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 22:24:26 I guess since you can't see rHellfire in game, it would be confusing if some panlords had it and some didn't 22:24:36 you couldn't reliably use them as hellion protection, f.w 22:24:42 f.e. 22:24:54 yeah, but rf+++ is no longer = rhellfire 22:25:01 i mean that's a different debate 22:25:07 but surely some should have immunity to rf or rc 22:25:48 surely? 22:26:07 i mean, why not? 22:26:14 It doesn't seem unreasonable to me to let some be immune, but it doesn't seem *necessary*, either. 22:26:14 extended chars are rarely restricted to one damage type 22:26:50 the extended game has many immunities as it is 22:26:59 yeah, it doesn't break the game to have it not happen 22:27:37 but of the two options i think it makes more sense for some to be immune 22:27:49 it does seem bad if most of them are immune, yeah 22:28:13 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 22:30:19 Suggest a frequency. 22:30:52 weight 3? 22:31:02 since all of the other ones are also weight 3 22:31:22 oh, except vuln 22:31:25 weight 2 then maybe? 22:31:36 how about % distribution 22:32:12 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 22:32:17 1, 3, 3, 3 is currently a neat distribution, yea 22:33:00 1, 3, 2, 2, 2? 22:33:32 60% resistant, 30% not, 10% vulnerable 22:33:38 without changing the others, 2 would be 1/6, so 11/36 panlords would have immunity to fire or cold 22:34:09 about 7/36 with 13222 22:34:15 i'm not strongly against this idea, but I don't really see a need to add immunity in that I dislike immunities on procedural enemies 22:36:14 i mean 22:36:58 i'm not really sure why that is a bad thing 22:37:31 certain players would have to to x-v every pan lord 22:37:37 you already do, really 22:37:47 they will need to do that anyway, because rf++ is also terrible for you if you are using bolt of fire e.g. 22:37:57 e.g. bolt of fire. 22:38:05 should have used f.ex 22:38:44 also, there's this comment about elec immunity which I think is a joke but not 100% sure 22:38:46 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:38:47 // resist electricity: 22:38:49 if (one_chance_in(3)) 22:38:52 resists |= MR_RES_ELEC; // no rElec++ for Pan lords, because of witches 22:39:07 one of my favorite comments 22:39:10 -!- lvh has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:39:14 I think it's on crawlcode somewhere 22:39:16 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 22:39:27 <|amethyst> ??witches 22:39:28 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 22:39:28 I don't have a page labeled witches in my learndb. 22:39:43 there's a coven in pitsprint 22:39:51 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.18-a0-1300-g6e8322c: Ash Curse ability tile 10(14 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6e8322c063c5 22:39:55 <|amethyst> ?/WITCHES 22:39:55 Matching entries (4): eronarn[9] | mislead[3] | QUAD_DAMAGE[3] | v[1] 22:40:06 ontoclasm: thanks bb 22:40:13 ofc 22:40:28 curses.... 22:40:28 i get snide posts on tavern if things lack tiles for more than about 12 hours 22:40:35 lol 22:40:37 seriously? 22:40:39 :) 22:40:45 (i'm joking) 22:40:46 that's odd. why does control undead not work on spectrals created by spectral mist? 22:40:54 well, it happened once 22:41:30 tavern entitlement >.> 22:42:20 !lg amalloy 22:42:21 365. hyperamalloy the Warrior (L24 MuVM of Gozag), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2015-12-31 08:04:24, with 1358355 points after 102060 turns and 9:11:39. 22:42:29 er 22:42:33 here's a c++ style question 22:42:34 &dump amalloy 22:42:35 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/amalloy/amalloy.txt 22:42:38 int total_def = 10 + random2avg(40, 2); 22:42:38 ev = total_def - random2(total_def); 22:42:39 ac = total_def - ev; 22:42:41 &dump comborobin cao 22:42:42 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/comborobin/comborobin.txt 22:42:47 is there a way to write this without the total_def temp var? 22:43:00 chequers: no 22:43:08 I basically want to change pan lords so the ones with high AC get low EV and vice versa 22:43:22 that is... probably not the right log. 22:43:29 oh weird 22:43:30 unless you already died? 22:43:33 &dump comborobin cao trunk 22:43:34 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/comborobin/comborobin.txt 22:43:38 man i dunno 22:43:52 might be related to comborobin's multiple games :v 22:43:57 presumably, yeah 22:44:03 does flying affect tornado damage 22:44:12 you could probably write it without total_def, but it'll be clearer with 22:44:17 !gameinfo comborobin spgl 22:44:19 comborobin the L24 SpGl^Oka in Crypt:3 (cao console), T:71572, runes: 3 (abyssal, decaying, gossamer), defenses: 6/45/11, stats: 17/18/27, >15 skills: Dodging,Charms 22:44:22 ok 22:44:29 <|amethyst> defer_rand could maybe do it 22:44:32 hmm 22:44:35 @??spectral 22:44:35 unknown monster: "spectral" 22:44:36 PleasingFungus: you can't, because anything else will involve evaluating random2avg twice 22:44:38 <|amethyst> but yeah, I'd just write it like that 22:44:41 @??spectral orc 22:44:41 spectral orc (03Z) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 5-7 | AC/EV: 2/5 | Dam: 4 | 07undead, evil, see invisible, fly, unbreathing | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1 | Sz: Medium | Int: brainless. 22:44:43 <|amethyst> except const int 22:45:01 my performance 22:45:01 amalloy: it's the mr immunity I think? 22:45:24 hm, that would make sense. i was surprised it said "is unaffected", rather than "resists" or something 22:45:45 unaffected is the text for immune stuff I think 22:45:48 hm 22:46:04 control undead is pretty great against scarabs 22:46:19 @??death scarab 22:46:19 death scarab (06B) | Spd: 30 | HD: 8 | HP: 24-33 | AC/EV: 7/14 | Dam: 3013(scarab) | 07undead, evil, unbreathing | Res: 06magic(60), 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 760 | Sz: little | Int: animal. 22:46:25 oh neat. 22:46:27 esp. along with animate dead 22:46:31 you get a mighty army of bugs 22:46:41 Here: a very buggy army. 22:47:21 if any dev would like to take credit, here's a little patch: http://dpaste.com/1W0ZHBD.txt 22:47:50 average pan lord defenses go up about 10 22:48:56 in exchange, instead of the highest pan lord defenses being 25/25, you might find 60/0 or 0/60 22:49:23 ... now that I say the numbers they seem perhaps a little high 22:49:28 why the increase in average? 22:49:38 it is pretty disrespectful to dis and eresh also 22:49:39 <|amethyst> btw, you could avoid one subtraction, not that it really matters 22:49:52 just random2(total_def)? 22:49:54 <|amethyst> ac = random2(total_def); ev = total_def - ac; 22:49:59 :) 22:50:01 though spectral dispater is the true ac leader 22:50:07 I initially thought it would have been a nerf, but now I see otherwise 22:50:09 @??spectral dispater 22:50:09 unknown monster: "spectral dispater" 22:50:14 @??ereshkigal 22:50:14 Ereshkigal (00&) | Spd: 14 | HD: 18 | HP: 285-399 | AC/EV: 10/30 | Dam: 4013(drain) | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, unholy, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 12975 | Sp: b.cold (3d27) [06!sil], silence [06!sil], sum.greater demon [06!sil], s.torment [06!sil], paralyse [06!sil], major heali.. 22:50:15 being spectral just adds 2 ac 22:50:16 for some reason 22:50:25 and subtracts 5 ev 22:50:32 @??dispater 22:50:32 Dispater (06&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 360-513 | AC/EV: 40/3 | Dam: 50 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, unholy, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 9481 | Sp: sum.greater demon [06!sil], crystal spear (3d35) [06!sil], iron shot (3d29) [06!sil], hellfire (3d20) [06.. 22:51:05 I would've thought spectral things could dodge better and have less armour 22:51:13 I guess 50/0 or 0/50 is about as scary as 25/25 22:51:23 <|amethyst> chequers: also, you can't get 60/0 with your formula 22:51:27 <|amethyst> ev is at least 1 22:51:29 depends on whether you are using something that always hits or not 22:51:38 @??alligator turtle 22:51:38 unknown monster: "alligator turtle" 22:51:41 50/0 0/50 is a bit easier to game by the player 22:51:42 @??snapping turtle 22:51:42 snapping turtle (03t) | Spd: 8 (act: 80%; swim: 60%) | HD: 10 | HP: 48-70 | AC/EV: 16/5 | Dam: 30(reach) | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40), 12drown | XP: 253 | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 22:51:44 |amethyst: yeah, fixed with yours 22:51:46 @??spectral snapping turtle 22:51:46 spectral snapping turtle (03Z) | Spd: 8 (act: 80%; swim: 60%) | HD: 10 | HP: 50-71 | AC/EV: 18/0 | Dam: 2413(drain) | 07undead, evil, see invisible, fly, unbreathing | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 149 | Sz: Medium | Int: brainless. 22:51:47 use something that ignores ac or ev 22:51:51 <|amethyst> chequers: no, mine is the same actually 22:51:54 nice 22:52:05 oh? I thought random2(total_def) could return 0 22:52:12 <|amethyst> chequers: yes, but it can't return total_def 22:52:54 @??pandemonium lord 22:52:55 pandemonium lord (08&) | Spd: 10-19 | HD: 23 | HP: 124-230 | AC/EV: 14/15 | Dam: 35 | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter, unholy, see invisible | Res: 06magic(153), 05fire++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 5228 | Sp: (random) | Sz: Large | Int: human. 22:53:09 <|amethyst> you'd want random2(total_def + 1) if you want both 0 and total_def to be possible 22:53:54 oh, I think you mean ac is at least one? 22:54:07 ev = random2(total_def + 1); 22:54:07 ac = total_def - ev; 22:54:26 random_range(0, total_def) might express it more clearly 22:54:34 good idea 22:54:37 :) 22:54:42 bingo!!1 22:54:44 <|amethyst> unless you're a Python programmer 22:54:56 ? python has random.random_int(low, high) 22:55:16 <|amethyst> Python also has random.random_range, which is exclusive on the top end 22:55:36 <|amethyst> err, randrange 22:55:50 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:55:50 <|amethyst> I guess the name is different, it's fine :) 22:56:00 <|amethyst> but I always have to look up random_range :) 22:56:20 did I have a commit recently about changing pan lord brands? 22:56:44 <|amethyst> %git 57e542 22:56:44 07chequers02 * 0.18-a0-242-g57e5425: Tweak panlord brand distribution. 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 15+ 12-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/57e542532f0e 22:57:01 oops, was coding against a random old branch 22:57:11 origin/master instead of upstream/master, THANKS TRIANGULAR WORKFLOW 22:57:24 what's a triangle 22:57:35 pull from crawl/crawl, push to alexjurkiewicz/crawl 22:58:23 crawl pushmipullyu 22:58:26 -!- eb_ has quit [] 23:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:19 -!- ursan has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:00:59 -!- cang has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:01:31 nice, just randomly generated a 40 EV panlord 23:03:51 -!- Xenobreeder has joined ##crawl-dev 23:03:56 i would be in favor of that probably, just because it makes panlords more variable 23:04:19 i like the resists thing for the same reason, though i was under the impression that they actually got rf+++/rhellfire in the past 23:04:26 looking at the git log, im not even sure that was the case 23:04:43 it looks like they just got random_range(1, 2) for a long time 23:04:55 i'm going to add a patch to make some vuln to elec 23:05:06 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 23:05:07 just so AE feel a bit more like first class elementalists 23:05:40 how does rElec work? do you have vuln, nothing, resist and invuln? 23:06:00 you can increase the chance of them having relec+, and then have a chance to subtract relec 23:06:01 or is relec++ a no-op 23:06:04 to keep the average the same 23:06:05 relec++ is real 23:06:09 it's not quite the same as rf++ tho 23:06:14 <|amethyst> it has the same five levels as rF but the formulas work differnetly 23:06:21 <|amethyst> s/netl/entl/ 23:06:24 -!- Vizer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:06:44 !source resist_adjust_damage 23:06:44 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/fight.cc#l479 23:06:46 I get the impression players only understand relec-, relec, relec+ and relec∞ 23:06:52 ??relec 23:06:52 relec[1/1]: Reduces electrical damage to 1/3, 1/6, 0 by level (but players can only get level 1). Available from potions of resistance, staff of air, storm dragon armour, statue form, mutations and artefacts. 23:06:53 relevant bit starts on line 504 23:06:56 -!- LordSloth has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:07:02 that's correct, ya 23:07:15 ah 23:07:19 <|amethyst> nothing naturally has rElec++ without equipment 23:07:20 -!- tksquared_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:07:23 66%, 83%, 100%? 23:07:27 <|amethyst> well, maybe some random things 23:07:29 can confirm i only understand things the incorrect way chequers described 23:07:34 aren't some things immune 23:07:37 and relec is the standard -50%? 23:07:38 relec++ is not real 23:07:41 @??angel 23:07:41 angel (00A) | Spd: 15 | HD: 12 | HP: 86-118 | AC/EV: 12/20 | Dam: 25, 10 | 08holy, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(120), 10elec, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 1553 | Sp: minor healing (2d6) [06!sil] | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 23:07:44 there's a check to prevent it 23:08:02 in the mondata tests 23:08:04 relec++ was mostly removed by mpa 23:08:05 <|amethyst> DrKe: err, it says right there, "to 1/3", so -66% 23:08:14 meant to say relec- sorry 23:08:17 <|amethyst> ah 23:08:33 also, that test won't prevent panlords having relec++.... :) :) :) 23:08:39 but they still shouldn't 23:08:42 <|amethyst> what about an relec+ monster wearing SDA? 23:08:45 just crash if any monster ever had relec 23:08:51 that'll probably work 23:08:54 !source monster::res_elec 23:08:55 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/monster.cc#l3890 23:09:09 ya 23:09:12 <|amethyst> err 23:09:15 <|amethyst> so 23:09:16 FR rename all the dragons so people stop saying SDA 23:09:21 <|amethyst> that looks like it could be problematic 23:09:25 <|amethyst> I don't see a cap 23:09:27 can i spawn more than one pan lord at a time in wizmode 23:09:27 (since there are four dragons starting with S) 23:09:29 indeed 23:09:34 <|amethyst> but I imagine if it returns 4 that will cause problems 23:09:40 storm, shadow, steam, swamp 23:09:53 an relec monster that drinks resistance and wields a staff of air is immune to elec 23:09:59 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:10:01 there's a canonical abbreviation for each, but a lot of people don't know, or forget 23:10:05 could do swamp -> mire or -> muck, but mottled... 23:10:08 <|amethyst> "canonical" 23:10:09 just do &m pandemonium lord 23:10:14 and then hit ` 23:10:19 or whatever the repeat command button is 23:10:25 shadow -> umbra 23:10:31 and fill your los with them 23:10:31 except they don't have one 23:10:31 "legitimately" 23:10:32 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:10:49 DrKe: it only fills a little circle around where you are 23:10:54 <|amethyst> FR: orange dragon armour 23:11:03 no more dragons.... 23:11:08 found on hill giants? 23:11:09 yeah, a 3 radius one, right 23:11:37 DrKe: ah cool ` 23:11:51 `_` 23:19:17 DrKe: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/235 23:19:30 i didn't follow your suggestion exactly, but 10% of panlords there would get immunity 23:20:00 maybe i should make the resists correlated 23:20:33 eg rf+++/rc-, or rf++/rc, or rf+/rc+ 23:20:41 New branch created: pull/235 (3 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/235 23:20:41 03chequers02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/235 * 0.18-a0-1300-gecebc65: Make panlord AC & EV inversely correlated. 10(16 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ecebc65e1639 23:20:41 03chequers02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/235 * 0.18-a0-1301-g3b77ec1: Give 10% of panlords rF+++/rC+++. 10(16 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3b77ec1c7968 23:20:41 03chequers02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/235 * 0.18-a0-1302-gb9ef9e3: Give panlords more variable rElec levels. 10(16 hours ago, 1 file, 10+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b9ef9e3e4fe5 23:21:47 -!- mong has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:23:22 -!- Grivan has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:24:05 i mean, yours is not any worse in my view 23:24:16 since they never actually had a chance to have rf+++/rc+++ even before your last change 23:24:49 (10% rElec-, 40% rElec, 40% rElec, 10% rElec8) 23:24:56 in the relec commit message, second relec should say relec+ 23:25:10 <|amethyst> err 23:25:21 and the first one should say something else 23:25:24 too probably 23:25:40 the first one is just "no resist" 23:25:50 <|amethyst> yeah, "rElec" does not mean "does not resist electricity" 23:26:04 it seemed self-explanatory for this one-liner commit message 23:26:13 I guess it tricked two people already though 23:26:17 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 23:27:45 -!- sid14726 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:28:32 -!- GauHelldragon3 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:28:34 static int fire_res = _panlord_random_resist_level(); // -1 to 3 23:28:34 resists |= mrd(MR_RES_FIRE, fire_res); 23:28:34 resists |= mrd(MR_RES_COLD, 2 - fire_res); 23:28:48 this would give the distribution I mentioned above: rf+++/rc-, or rf++/rc, or rf+/rc+ 23:30:07 i'm not really in favor of that 23:30:09 ??dispersal 23:30:09 dispersal[1/3]: Spell: All monsters that are adjacent to you will be instantly teleported away if they don't resist (via magic resistance). If a monster does resist, it will be blinked instead (even if it's immune!). Does not work on -TELE enemies such as statues. 23:30:24 i think more variance is better, since most people don't kill random panlords anyways 23:30:36 and that wouldn't allow for rc++/rc+++ if i understand you correctly 23:31:19 most people don't kill random panlords? 23:31:19 you do 23:31:29 most greaterplayers probably dont :) 23:31:36 i think it's cool to have the occasional uberpanlord who resists everything and glaciates you every turn 23:31:36 most people only see goblins 23:31:42 ^ 23:31:52 and then your garbage panlord who spams sputterflies and has rf- rc- 23:31:53 most people played once and got annoyed at dying on d:2 and quit 23:31:55 DrKe: yeah, I do like that 23:32:12 <|amethyst> do you intent to make panlords more likely to have rC than rF? 23:32:24 bloody off by one *gnashes teeth* 23:32:26 when pan freezes over! 23:32:31 <|amethyst> or would this be combined with something to make _panlord_random_resist_level symmetric? 23:32:52 latter 23:33:32 I do agree with DrKe though, it is nice to have wild power swings in panlord power 23:33:34 <|amethyst> so what is your overall intent? 23:33:47 <|amethyst> you mention variability, but the rF/rC tradeoff reduces that 23:34:18 I wanted to give more "intent" to panlord proceduralism, eg the randomness looks more sensible than just random2() for every stat 23:34:59 <|amethyst> so what is the distribution given by the new AC/EV calculations anyway? 23:35:08 PF my meaning was more so "most people don't hunt down random panlords" 23:35:15 so it's a trope of the game that enemies with high ac tend to have low ev, and vice versa. I was thinking about extending that idea to resists as well 23:35:23 not "most people run away from every random panlord w/ no exceptions" 23:35:30 |amethyst: not sure, since I don't understand random2avg distribution very well 23:36:21 it can be tweaked in several dimensions if the current distribution is considered a problem (but I do like that panlord power levels are quite variable) 23:36:25 <|amethyst> I mean, you still have a minimum of 10 ac+ev and a maximum of 59 (slightly higher maximum) 23:36:41 -!- asdu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:36:44 <|amethyst> so it seems like it would just push things more towards the middle 23:36:46 DrKe: I'll accept that 23:36:59 <|amethyst> the comment says "Now Pandemonium Lords 23:37:00 <|amethyst> with high AC will have low EV, and vice versa." 23:37:10 <|amethyst> byt 5/5 and 25/25 are both possible with the new system 23:37:20 <|amethyst> well, 24/25 23:37:33 ah, I see what you mean, good catch 23:37:46 statistics is hard 23:39:30 the two constraints I want are: a) panlord ac+ev is about the same as now b) there's more differentiation in ac/ev distribution among panlords, and fewer with both low / both high 23:39:48 maybe just remove (or heavily restrict) the random component from total_def 23:41:08 <|amethyst> it sounds like b) is two different constraints 23:41:11 <|amethyst> opposing ones 23:41:42 <|amethyst> though I'm not sure, because "more differentiation in ac/ev distribution" is unclear to me 23:42:05 -!- destroythecore has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:42:20 <|amethyst> hm 23:42:25 I wanted to give panlords personality by making the difference between their AC and EV larger 23:42:45 "ok this guy has +++++ EV and + AC, while the last guy was +++ AC . EV" 23:42:46 noble quest 23:42:52 good idea 23:43:14 right now it's sort of +++ AC +++ EV on all of them 23:45:21 -!- advil has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:45:39 <|amethyst> so calculating a sum and then dividing that up between the two with uniform weight isn't so great 23:45:59 <|amethyst> because getting the same AC and EV is certainly possible that way 23:46:41 probably want to choose a high and low value and then toss a coin for which corresponds to AC and which to EV 23:46:48 <|amethyst> though I don't really see a problem with monsters that have AC and EV at similar numbers 23:46:50 same ac and ev is still interesting if not every panlord has it 23:47:02 true, zxc 23:47:03 <|amethyst> but not every panlord has it now 23:47:21 most do, I feel. And few are outliers 23:47:30 I like that approach PleasingFungus 23:47:30 <|amethyst> ec = 5 + random2(20); 23:47:32 <|amethyst> err 23:47:36 <|amethyst> ev = 5 + random2(20); 23:47:38 <|amethyst> ac = 5 + random2(20); 23:48:06 <|amethyst> what is your definition of "similar numbers" 23:48:17 i mean, you can just roll random2(30) for both 23:48:18 "within two + on the x-v screen" 23:48:25 <|amethyst> how much is two +? 23:48:28 10 23:48:33 <|amethyst> err 23:48:37 <|amethyst> you have two numbers 23:48:40 <|amethyst> between 5 and 24 23:48:51 <|amethyst> of course they're going to be within 10 fairly often 23:48:56 <|amethyst> 10 is half the size of the range 23:49:07 that's why my initial solution allowed for panlords with 0/40! 23:49:10 possibly this is why chequers was trying to widen the range 23:49:12 haha 23:49:23 i'm not denying there's a fatal flaw in my old idea 23:49:31 <|amethyst> why not just make it ev = random2(30) ac = random2(30) 23:49:36 <|amethyst> if you want to allow 0 and allow 30 23:49:54 doesn't allow 30 23:49:58 <|amethyst> err, right 23:50:04 :P 23:50:19 I think there's a lot of space in the distribution that's uninteresting, so I want to code something that overweights certain cases 23:50:51 <|amethyst> hm 23:50:53 eg, I want a roughly equal split of 'high ac/low ev', 'high ev/low ac' and 'similar ac/ev' -- I think two random2() is going to tend towards the third case won't it? 23:50:59 i think random2(30) for both would be an improvement on current, though 23:51:06 agreed 23:51:27 <|amethyst> so then roll 1d3 23:51:44 1d3 +something and 1d3 minus something? 23:51:53 <|amethyst> no, 1d3 for which of those three cases you have 23:52:02 ah 23:52:14 -!- st__ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:52:19 ep 23:52:20 y 23:52:26 um 23:52:59 I think the approach chequers was talking about earlier will produce roughly that distribution 23:53:02 well 23:53:10 it'll also produce "low ev+ac" and "high ev+ac" 23:53:12 but not very often 23:53:30 <|amethyst> the one in the commit? 23:53:51 if we talk about the distribution as a percentage split, I want the 0/100 10/90 60/40 and 50/50 splits without the 80/20 and 70/30 stuff 23:54:06 I haven't looked at commits. i'm talking about with total_def 23:54:10 ahh 23:54:14 that's an interesting desire 23:55:43 is there some way to make a mini-inline-enum? 23:55:57 just 23:56:01 declare an enum inline? 23:56:26 big code 23:57:34 <|amethyst> do random_choose() among three random_vars :) 23:58:19 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]